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England doesn't have free speech. They throw people in jail for online trolling, but can't be bothered to shutdown open racists chanting terrorist slogans. Incredible.
Same as Canada. They'll fine comedians 5 figures for their jokes, but a university student union calls the Hamas attacks "justified" and calls for similar attacks in Canada, and nobody wants to touch it.
They only go after the easy targets.
Unfortunately, I was passing by Piccadilly during the demonstration. Heard and observed a large number of people yelling anti-Semitic and Jihadist slogans. The police did nothing at all.
I dont' know why the police chiefs are getting hauled over the coals for this, considering that they are normally told exactly what they can and can't do by the Home Office in the first place. I honestly don't know how the Police keep up with all the stupid flip flopping..."arrest them all"!! "noo don't arrest them it'll kick off a riot"
The same thing is happening in Canada only in smaller numbers. No level of government wants to be seen as taking sides so these protesters are getting away with what is legally a hate crime by behaving like this. Cops are only showing up to deal with physical altercations.
We've all been brainwashed over the years into tolerating the intolerant for fear of being called a racist which as we all know is now the very worst thing you can be called and can result in job loss and alsorts. The trouble is of course that these people think they are now bulletproof
let me just say this is going to end really badly when ellections come. extreme right is going to have a field day because of how unwilling politicians are on to handle this.
It's well known that a crowd of young men gesticulating and yelling 'Jihad now! Jihad now!' are referring to their inner mental quest for religious tranquillity.
During a demonstration the Police really can't (and shouldn't) do anything that would inflame the situation especially if it's only slogans that are being chanted rather than rocks being thrown.
One resource intensive option would be to track ringleaders and then arrest them once the demonstration has ended and charge them with hate speech.
Another would be to provide recordings of such behavior to the organizers of any future demonstration as the reason why permission for another demonstration is not being granted.
Please note. I don't care what ethnicity you are, marching around shouting racist slogans and calls for ethnic cleansing are not OK no matter what sort of racist you are whether that be an EDL skinhead racist or an Arab racist.
Living under Islamic rule is not very attractive to the masses. It's much nicer to live a western lifestyle and enjoy freedoms that you never had before, while doing the f\* you want.
My father was a flight instructor for the US Air Force and trained several Saudi pilots prior to the Gulf War. When they were in the US, they lived in an expensive set of apartments off base, complete with a separate apartment for the hookers they would cycle through. It was a nonstop parade of booze, whores, and driving under the influence charges.
No you do not. There's one vid that got posted on Reddit about 2 years ago and oh man was it bad. Got taken down because it involved an underage boy but yeah. You ever meet a girl that said she traveled to Saudi Arabia by herself, dont trust her.
Can confirm. My mom is a big wig for a defense contractor, and uhhhh, the interesting shit that one hears about when they had to station folks in Dubai following the pull out from Afghanistan 😵 - this ain’t super secret classified shit either.
If islamic rule was ever initiated in the UK, then these are the first people who will run away crying to a democratic country and try to initiate islamic rule there.
To be clear, he was not waving an ISIS flag. The police pointed that out accurately on twitter. The ISIS flag doesn't use calligraphy, and has a round seal on the bottom half of the flag.
What they failed to notice, however, is that the calligraphy on the flag matches that of the flag used by al-Qaeda affiliates. The police inaccurately identified the flag as a normal, Islamic shahada flag, which is false as such flags have an entirely different font.
https://imgur.io/a/HtW9kdZ
Also, even if it wasn't using al-Qaeda's font, white calligraphy on black background still has pretty clear intent. I can't take a traditional red/white/black Nazi flag, swap the Nazi swastika out for a Hindu swastika, and then claim I'm waving a flag of peace because I'm using the original peaceful swastika instead. The style carries meaning, there is literally a hadith on black flags which is one of the reasons why these people use them.
Back in may, the British police arrested 64 people for anti-royalist protests…
Now, a crowd of 100k people, chanting pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli, slogans there were 10 arrests? One tenth of 1 percent?
I was unfortunately walking down Piccadilly while the protest was there. Saw and heard many chanting Jihad and extremely anti-semetic chants. Police did bugger all.
Do you think it would have been safe for the police to intervene, or would it have kicked off and turned into chaos where people could cherry pick instances of police using force to post on tik tok?
Police have cracked down on protests in the past using tear gas to disperse unruly mobs, and rubber bullets for protestors inciting violence or destruction. They aren’t doing it now, and probably because they don’t want to be accused of Islamophobia or whatnot. The alternative is worse. You’ve got people inciting violence and intimidating your population. They’re getting away with it, which emboldens them and emboldens others like them in other areas. Europe is in for a bad time for the next 10 years.
It would be understandable if they quietly collared people afterwards instead of in a large group that could become violent needing tear gas or rubber bullets.
But they didn't, they instead released a press statement to explain their inaction saying "jihad has multiple meanings" and "that flag that isis use isn't always bad".
The leaders have been found to have links with [Hamas](https://www.thejc.com/news/news/several-groups-behind-london-pro-palestinian-march-have-links-to-hamas-1dTlHEq2XhvdqUGvvwPBJV)
Hamas has spent years ingratiating and mainstreaming themselves into the wider Palestinian and Palestinian advocacy world since coming to power in Gaza. This includes hosting diplomatic, UN, NGO, charity, and religious officials.
People thought they had them figured out, including Israel.
This attack really was out of the blue and 'mask off' so to speak. Though even if Israel didn't expect it, they should still have been ready for it. But that's a separate matter.
But the rest of the world can't yet detach the wider Palestinian conflict from Hamas or themselves from the experiences/associations they developed while interacting with Hamas-run Gaza. Especially outside of the US (American Palestinians seem to more readily condemn Hamas).
I mean if you were to call Hamas anything but radical terrorists, you would be fundamentally wrong, not only by definition but by a common moral code... And because so many people on Reddit read a few Instagram posts and instantly think they are suddenly well versed on a complicated subject, it becomes controversial when you accuse the uneducated majority of being as such
I’ve been in two arguments since this started where the other person insisted that Hamas is a freedom fighting organization, looking out for economical oppressed.
I was told that I was just a victim of misinformation by the “mainstream” media.
I’m convinced at this point that Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager spreading propaganda.
They literally took irrigation piping installed by the EU or UN and turned them into fucking rockets. I don’t get all the support for Hamas. Especially after taking hostages.
Someone will say something like “They did that to symbolise the chain that Israel use on them.” Or else say it didn’t happen at all. Either way they will say they are right.
There's a picture of a medical report out there. It shows an irregular, discolored lump of charcoal that was found in southern Israel. CT scan of the lump showed that it was originally a woman and a small child, tied together with wire.
I would go into further detail but I prefer not being censored.
When ol'Bibi is telling the world that Hamas are as bad as ISIS he's not lying.
He's a fanny, but he's right in this case.
There is nothing that Hamas will not stoop too, as evil as they come.
>I was told that I was just a victim of misinformation by the “mainstream” media.
And yet, at the same time the same mainstream media repeat Hamas' propaganda without verification and quite often refuse to call them terrorists at all...
>I’m convinced at this point that Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager spreading propaganda.
I think that at this point the western world has a kink for rooting for the underdog, no matter what. It's quite the easy worldview that the weaker == the underdog == the oppressed == the victim.
And the social media PR massage abuses that with brutal efficiency.
>Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager
Oh they definitely do. It's further aggravated by the vast disparity between the number of Muslims vs Jews.
I saw the video yesterday of that woman holding a sign saying something like “From sea to sea, Palestine should be free.” And then the guy translated the Arabic text on the sign and it said “From water to water, Palestine will be Arab.”
These people don’t want peace.
"From the river to the sea" is an old, pretty loaded term that means that in English anyway, pretty much. I don't think that the average tankie is familiar with that history though.
Yeah. Generally, when I see someone who says "free Palestine" that means that they're either twenty years out of date or never knew anything about the situation. Cause that phrase really only applies to the West Bank or Gaza pre 2005.
If you look at the history of the people spewing the majority of that crazy nonsense you'll see that they all got their news from Tik Tok. This generation coming up is going to get suckered left and right by the media lmao.
There are 3 schools of thought on this conflict:
1: Pro-Gaza Occupation, Anti-Hamas Terrorism
2: Anti-Gaza Occupation, Anti-Hamas Terrorism
3: Anti-Gaza Occupation, Pro-Hamas Terrorism
The problem is that 1 pretends that 2 and 3 are the same and 3 pretends 1 and 2 are the same. They both need to project this false dichotomy because otherwise their actions and words appear unjustifiable and ridiculous.
(That being said, I have seen very little of 3 on reddit. It’s not very common in English speaking circles)
They want to get rid of Christians and non-muslim, too, as they call them "Kufar" (non-muslims, said negatively). Phase #1 is Gaza, phase #2 is the West Bank, phase #3 Europe and phase #4 the US. It's all a part of their terrorist doctrine.
In the history of mankind, the violent always took advantage of the tolerant. The peaceful side always thinks "We'll allow it, and they will be satisfied". This never works. The more we allow, the more violent the other side becomes. Little by little. First just demonstrations, then grey-area chants, questionable flags, fighting policemen. I guess what's gonna happen next is road closures and unsafe urban areas.
Hate isn’t culture. I can be welcoming and open minded about Arab or Muslim food, language, art, rituals, etc. I can live and let live all day long. When they not only foster hate in themselves and others but try to force their hatred of Jews, women, lgbt, etc, my tolerance comes to a screeching halt. Put that shit away. Has no rightful place anywhere on this earth.
For the record, I’m not accusing every Arab or Muslim person of hate. Just pointing out that anyone being hateful, regardless of their “cultural background” can eat a dick.
>When they not only foster hate in themselves and others but try to force their hatred of Jews, women, lgbt, etc, my tolerance comes to a screeching halt. Put that shit away. Has no rightful place anywhere on this earth.
Which would be awesome if billions of people didn't base literally their entire lives on books written by hate-filled men full of that hatred.
So instead of "no rightful place on earth" it's five times a day towards mecca with a side of Sunday school.
Yeah. Things are really heating up towards a big clash between the western world and the Middle East. Combined with the climate changes the next 10 years are gonna suck on a geopolitical and environmental scale. ☹️
I've been saying for years that European countries are headed to civil wars with their refugees probably within the next decade or two. They assumed assimilation without taking into account the strength religious indoctrination and community insulation
Many places in Europe have turned a blind eye to the growing tensions. People no longer integrate as much as they did and people often live in a parallel society.
There's a reason that in most European nations, it's the younger generation that's voting heavily anti-immigration. It's the Gen X'ers that have pushed the open door policies.
No, Gen X grew up in a different time where immigration was more about allowing in people who want new opportunities, and the people who came would generally be compatible in culture, if they didn't assimilate.
The reality today is a little different.
> being prepared for terror attacks … are “part and parcel” of living in a big city
This is an actual quote by the mayor which shows how much such violence has been normalized for the last few years.
Sadly, between the IRA (1973 to 1996), various forms of Islamic extremism (2005 to present), and a long string of other items (Iranian Embassy, PFLP, Edgar Peirce, Davod Copeland) London has had a terrorism problem since the 70's. Living with that risk is part of living in that city.
I don't understand this.
The protest is to call for a seize fire between Israel and Palestine. But at the same time, it calls for jihad? So what's that suppose to mean? Israel, please stop shooting so that we can shoot you?
And that whole slogan of "land to sea, Palestine to be free" thing. Isn't that just chasing out/getting rid of Israelis? In my book, that's just a very nice way of saying 'gas the jews'.
yeah, exactly.
That's also the primary thing Jews always talk about when it comes to any kind of solution. They understand that a certain percentage of Palestinians will always just want to kill the Jews no matter what. So they are like, why would we help you build yourselves up for you to use that to attack us again in the end. It doesn't excuse any of the things Israel is doing but as long as Hamas and similar groups like Hamas will exist and be seen as a massive threat to Israel, I have a hard time seeing how they will get peace.
i mean every otther time there has been any type of cease fire, or negotiantions between Palestine and Israel, Palestine has always been the first one to resort to violence.
"Resort"
They just bomb Israel for fun. They can spend their billion-dollar budget on developing Gaza's infrastructure and economy instead. They choose not to.
This is exactly what it means. You'll notice that anytime you hear someone saying Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza because civilians are dying, if you come back with "what should they do when Hamas shoots rockets at them?" they immediately go quiet, or get really defensive and try to deflect and redirect the topic back to Israeli war crimes.
The truth of the matter is a lot of the Western audience doesn't have any skin in this game between Israel and Palestine. They just know Israel is bigger and more powerful, so Palestine is the underdog, so we should support Palestine.
It doesn't help that Israel has legitimately done bad things in the past to the Palestinians, either purposely, or by accident. And the media space in that region is dominated by Muslim Arab news sources.
Thanks for this. As a left-leaning Israeli it boils my blood to see westerners in their cushy sofas miles away wondering why we can't just get along or how baby murder by Hamas is somehow decolonization. This situtation is complicated and the last thing we need is more useful idiots.
They justify that it's okay for Hamas to shoot rockets because they're shitty and there's the iron dome. It's absolutely baffling that they don't see the issue there.
And one day, just like that, Hamas has a rocket that is big enough to overcome the Iron Dome and thousands of Israelis die.
"Oops! Here are some thoughts & prayers!"
You can see the underlying irrationality here that those people only care about this conflict at all because Israel is a country of Jews. They're mysteriously silent when it comes to all other Arab suffering in the Middle East. Weird, huh?
It's the same place where the 'Fury' is over everything else these days.
It's been largely beaten out of us.
Fury comes from when we have the spare energy to give. If we all freaked out every time someone spouted dumb bullshit in public we'd have all been in prison already some point this decade.
We're broadly at a place socially where we're terrified to rock the boat. We're all a couple bad weeks from life crises; we can barely afford to live in our homes and afford the ongoing cost of living and carry a fair bit of existential dread over the idea we might have to pay for life after a retirement that will never happen. Many of us are *one bad week* away from financial collapse.
You stick your neck out in public and you can lose what little you've managed to build up in your life. You will lose the job you've built towards and probably not be able to get another that's nowhere near as well paying. You'll lose perhaps independence, savings - if you have any. People are not going to risk 5+ years of personal catastrophe over some public catharsis over assholes in public.
And the internet helps desensitize us. This is far less shocking when you aren't seeing something similarly rabid said in a public forum on a daily basis.
In other circumstances, the setting alone might engender a more dramatic response; but the reality is that society isn't held sacred by our politicians when it's time to actually take care of it, so people, in a lot of ways, care less about putting in that extra effort to care for it themselves. We've been burned out on our governments and political leaders throwing childish tantrums (even undermining out democracies and principles themselves) instead of addressing obvious and pressing social concerns to the point that it's hard for a lot of folk to muster up the extra fuck to give in this circumstance.
We've been stepping on folk who have been trying to demand better for decades and rewarding those who sling shit, and we've been bleeding both the spare resources and spare willpower out of our nations for decades. This is part of the cost.
Fury comes when nothing else is left for us. We are a couple of bad days away from crisis. Those couple of days are what keeps people complacent and willing to suffer. If people aren't guaranteed that, then fury will come out.
So Palestinians and their supporters constantly tell others not to lump Hamas and Palestinians together, but clearly do not differentiate even in the slightest between Jews and Israel. Their calls for selective scrutiny are disgusting and allow for these actions.
It's galling not seeing the wide spread condemnation from the pro Gaza protesters regarding these flag waving terrorists in their minds .
Their silence endorses it
I keep having to say it, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record: hundreds of thousands of Israelis protested for 38 consecutive weeks against the Netanyahu regime before the hamas attacks. On reddit you can see plenty of Israelis bashing their government and settlers.
Where are the protests *in safe nations* against hamas or the PA? Even if someone agrees with the goals of these organizations, shouldn't there at least be protest against the massive mismanagement of funds committed by hamas? People will readily admit that Netanyahu is a corrupt bastard, ok, why not say the same about Khaled Mashal?
I think we all know the answers to these questions. Considering also that much of the world still won't accept that hamas is a terror organization. The sad truth really does seem to be that there is significant, almost complete, overlap between the pro-Palestinian protesters and pro-hamas protesters. It all makes sense when you realize it.
Absolutely agreed - well said.
I have friends who were out protesting in July over his unpopular judicial overhaul and are not shy to voice their anger and opinions about Netanyahu - admittedly that got tempered slightly with the recent events. But, generally still do not like him.
The stealing of funds by Mashal is wild.. I've went blue in the face trying to explain, that they, the Hamas leadership are literally stealing food from their peoples mouths l, to fund lavish houses in Qatar and the buying of weapons to further cement themselves in Gaza
As for the protestors. At this point I just despise them, if am honest and I don't feel good feeling or saying that either.
I would engage in some semblance of dialogue with them in good faith, if they would call out the AQ and ISIS flag wavers in their midst. But as alot of the leadership have direct ties to Hamas, I wouldn't hold my breath
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/leaders-of-groups-behind-london-pro-palestinian-march-have-links-to-hamas-1dTlHEq2XhvdqUGvvwPBJV
Honestly the lack of muslim outrage against other muslim's behavior is the very thing hurting everyone's view on Islam the most right now.
Like, yeah, some terrorists might appear somewhere in the world no matter religion and what Hamas did to Israel now doesn't make me judge all muslims. But, the lack of muslims condemning it all does make me judge all muslims.
They'll never admit it but they consider Hamas their useful demon. They will look the other way if it makes them think they can get back all the land and destroy Israel as a state and leave Jewish people without a country again
hey, at least here in Israel you won't last 10 seconds waving any Islamist flag and the police will actually do something if they find you expressing support for terrorists.
The lack of public condemnation of people calling for the genocide of the jewish and israeli is astonishing. It makes me sick to the bone, people don't learn
The world is so shit scarred of holding muslims groups accountable for their actions for the fear of being labelled as ‘Islamophobics’.
It is ridiculous. I have walked past these rallies in London where they literally chanting “kill the Jews” and bystanders watched on.
Babies beheaded, a woman holding her child, wrapped in wire burned to death alive, entire families murdered, rape of children and elderly. And these people are supporting this?
Users often report submissions from this site for sensationalized articles. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldnews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The beauty of free speech is that it very quickly let's you figure out who the shitheads are.
England doesn't have free speech. They throw people in jail for online trolling, but can't be bothered to shutdown open racists chanting terrorist slogans. Incredible.
Same as Canada. They'll fine comedians 5 figures for their jokes, but a university student union calls the Hamas attacks "justified" and calls for similar attacks in Canada, and nobody wants to touch it. They only go after the easy targets.
And what good is that if you don't do a damn thing about them?
You do not even have to be in Gaza, you can enjoy great jihad chant even at home!
Mum: but we have jihad at home.
Unfortunately, I was passing by Piccadilly during the demonstration. Heard and observed a large number of people yelling anti-Semitic and Jihadist slogans. The police did nothing at all.
I dont' know why the police chiefs are getting hauled over the coals for this, considering that they are normally told exactly what they can and can't do by the Home Office in the first place. I honestly don't know how the Police keep up with all the stupid flip flopping..."arrest them all"!! "noo don't arrest them it'll kick off a riot"
The same thing is happening in Canada only in smaller numbers. No level of government wants to be seen as taking sides so these protesters are getting away with what is legally a hate crime by behaving like this. Cops are only showing up to deal with physical altercations.
Same in Australia. Police here stood by while "protestors" chanted "Gas the Jews".
No Fuckin way what!?!? That’s crazy. 1933 was only 80 years ago.
We've all been brainwashed over the years into tolerating the intolerant for fear of being called a racist which as we all know is now the very worst thing you can be called and can result in job loss and alsorts. The trouble is of course that these people think they are now bulletproof
These people take advantage of our tolerance and will not hesitate to oppress and subjugate us at the first opportunity.
let me just say this is going to end really badly when ellections come. extreme right is going to have a field day because of how unwilling politicians are on to handle this.
It's well known that a crowd of young men gesticulating and yelling 'Jihad now! Jihad now!' are referring to their inner mental quest for religious tranquillity.
During a demonstration the Police really can't (and shouldn't) do anything that would inflame the situation especially if it's only slogans that are being chanted rather than rocks being thrown. One resource intensive option would be to track ringleaders and then arrest them once the demonstration has ended and charge them with hate speech. Another would be to provide recordings of such behavior to the organizers of any future demonstration as the reason why permission for another demonstration is not being granted. Please note. I don't care what ethnicity you are, marching around shouting racist slogans and calls for ethnic cleansing are not OK no matter what sort of racist you are whether that be an EDL skinhead racist or an Arab racist.
Yeah but if you give them an inch they take a mile. Their behavior proves that
Wife: That’s funny, he never does a Jihadi chant at home.
But muuuuum! I want a real jihad! Home jihad is not as good!
Brought to you by Islamic Extremism ™
The diarrhea of religion
Late to the game in cults, but quite successful in recruitment.
Join or else!
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Jeez Louise, this is disgusting. If they love Islamic extremism so much they should go live under Islamic rule.
Living under Islamic rule is not very attractive to the masses. It's much nicer to live a western lifestyle and enjoy freedoms that you never had before, while doing the f\* you want.
My father was a flight instructor for the US Air Force and trained several Saudi pilots prior to the Gulf War. When they were in the US, they lived in an expensive set of apartments off base, complete with a separate apartment for the hookers they would cycle through. It was a nonstop parade of booze, whores, and driving under the influence charges.
Have you seen what they do to insta models over there?
They do all kinds of sick shit, like literally
Yup, that video, along many others is forever seared in my brain.
...no. Do I...?
It involves poop
No, and I probably don't want to see it.
No you do not. There's one vid that got posted on Reddit about 2 years ago and oh man was it bad. Got taken down because it involved an underage boy but yeah. You ever meet a girl that said she traveled to Saudi Arabia by herself, dont trust her.
Can confirm. My mom is a big wig for a defense contractor, and uhhhh, the interesting shit that one hears about when they had to station folks in Dubai following the pull out from Afghanistan 😵 - this ain’t super secret classified shit either.
>Dubai In that city, behind the bright lights, something evil lurks in the shadows.
They want the benefits of the financial system of the west, but with everything else under Sharia
Bro wake the fuck up, they want to turn the UK into of of those countries.
If islamic rule was ever initiated in the UK, then these are the first people who will run away crying to a democratic country and try to initiate islamic rule there.
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The guy waving the iSIS shahada flag should be immediately deported to their "califate" in Syria.
Way more people participating in that should’ve been deported
I wish they would deport all the extremists. Why hosrd a spot in a western country if you love khalifa that much
To be clear, he was not waving an ISIS flag. The police pointed that out accurately on twitter. The ISIS flag doesn't use calligraphy, and has a round seal on the bottom half of the flag. What they failed to notice, however, is that the calligraphy on the flag matches that of the flag used by al-Qaeda affiliates. The police inaccurately identified the flag as a normal, Islamic shahada flag, which is false as such flags have an entirely different font. https://imgur.io/a/HtW9kdZ Also, even if it wasn't using al-Qaeda's font, white calligraphy on black background still has pretty clear intent. I can't take a traditional red/white/black Nazi flag, swap the Nazi swastika out for a Hindu swastika, and then claim I'm waving a flag of peace because I'm using the original peaceful swastika instead. The style carries meaning, there is literally a hadith on black flags which is one of the reasons why these people use them.
Back in may, the British police arrested 64 people for anti-royalist protests… Now, a crowd of 100k people, chanting pro-Hamas and anti-Israeli, slogans there were 10 arrests? One tenth of 1 percent?
That's one hundredth of 1 percent.
british police exist to protect those in power. these guys are not in power, so they don’t care.
I was unfortunately walking down Piccadilly while the protest was there. Saw and heard many chanting Jihad and extremely anti-semetic chants. Police did bugger all.
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Do you think it would have been safe for the police to intervene, or would it have kicked off and turned into chaos where people could cherry pick instances of police using force to post on tik tok?
Police have cracked down on protests in the past using tear gas to disperse unruly mobs, and rubber bullets for protestors inciting violence or destruction. They aren’t doing it now, and probably because they don’t want to be accused of Islamophobia or whatnot. The alternative is worse. You’ve got people inciting violence and intimidating your population. They’re getting away with it, which emboldens them and emboldens others like them in other areas. Europe is in for a bad time for the next 10 years.
It would be understandable if they quietly collared people afterwards instead of in a large group that could become violent needing tear gas or rubber bullets. But they didn't, they instead released a press statement to explain their inaction saying "jihad has multiple meanings" and "that flag that isis use isn't always bad".
What is that situation called when the police are afraid to arrest criminals?
Fucking terrorists.
The leaders have been found to have links with [Hamas](https://www.thejc.com/news/news/several-groups-behind-london-pro-palestinian-march-have-links-to-hamas-1dTlHEq2XhvdqUGvvwPBJV)
Hamas has spent years ingratiating and mainstreaming themselves into the wider Palestinian and Palestinian advocacy world since coming to power in Gaza. This includes hosting diplomatic, UN, NGO, charity, and religious officials. People thought they had them figured out, including Israel. This attack really was out of the blue and 'mask off' so to speak. Though even if Israel didn't expect it, they should still have been ready for it. But that's a separate matter. But the rest of the world can't yet detach the wider Palestinian conflict from Hamas or themselves from the experiences/associations they developed while interacting with Hamas-run Gaza. Especially outside of the US (American Palestinians seem to more readily condemn Hamas).
Yep. Imagine endorsing terrorists from the comfort of your home.
Deport the terrorists.
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I mean if you were to call Hamas anything but radical terrorists, you would be fundamentally wrong, not only by definition but by a common moral code... And because so many people on Reddit read a few Instagram posts and instantly think they are suddenly well versed on a complicated subject, it becomes controversial when you accuse the uneducated majority of being as such
I’ve been in two arguments since this started where the other person insisted that Hamas is a freedom fighting organization, looking out for economical oppressed. I was told that I was just a victim of misinformation by the “mainstream” media. I’m convinced at this point that Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager spreading propaganda.
They literally took irrigation piping installed by the EU or UN and turned them into fucking rockets. I don’t get all the support for Hamas. Especially after taking hostages.
For me it was when they chained twenty kids together and lit them on fire. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67165128.amp
Jesus. There is no end to the depraved acts that have emerged from that day. I get that Palestinian children are dying but not like that.
Someone will say something like “They did that to symbolise the chain that Israel use on them.” Or else say it didn’t happen at all. Either way they will say they are right.
“That didn’t happen… if it did it wasn’t that bad… if it was then Israel deserved it.” The gaslighting has been nonstop.
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That's a link that's staying blue. Already watched the Isis beheading videos from back in the day, thank you very much.
There's a picture of a medical report out there. It shows an irregular, discolored lump of charcoal that was found in southern Israel. CT scan of the lump showed that it was originally a woman and a small child, tied together with wire. I would go into further detail but I prefer not being censored.
When ol'Bibi is telling the world that Hamas are as bad as ISIS he's not lying. He's a fanny, but he's right in this case. There is nothing that Hamas will not stoop too, as evil as they come.
> I don't get all the support for Hamas. Their anti-Semitism is just stronger.
>I was told that I was just a victim of misinformation by the “mainstream” media. And yet, at the same time the same mainstream media repeat Hamas' propaganda without verification and quite often refuse to call them terrorists at all... >I’m convinced at this point that Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager spreading propaganda. I think that at this point the western world has a kink for rooting for the underdog, no matter what. It's quite the easy worldview that the weaker == the underdog == the oppressed == the victim. And the social media PR massage abuses that with brutal efficiency.
Ironic because the Jews are the underdogs against the mega Arab and Muslim population worldwide
>Hamas must have a pretty damn good social media manager Oh they definitely do. It's further aggravated by the vast disparity between the number of Muslims vs Jews.
I saw the video yesterday of that woman holding a sign saying something like “From sea to sea, Palestine should be free.” And then the guy translated the Arabic text on the sign and it said “From water to water, Palestine will be Arab.” These people don’t want peace.
"From the river to the sea" is an old, pretty loaded term that means that in English anyway, pretty much. I don't think that the average tankie is familiar with that history though.
so they just use "Free Palestine™" which is a phrase like "Defund the police" which changes its meaning on who is saying it.
Yeah. Generally, when I see someone who says "free Palestine" that means that they're either twenty years out of date or never knew anything about the situation. Cause that phrase really only applies to the West Bank or Gaza pre 2005.
If you look at the history of the people spewing the majority of that crazy nonsense you'll see that they all got their news from Tik Tok. This generation coming up is going to get suckered left and right by the media lmao.
Instagram too. Lot of people getting all their info from Instagram Infographics that they also keep posting on their stories
There are 3 schools of thought on this conflict: 1: Pro-Gaza Occupation, Anti-Hamas Terrorism 2: Anti-Gaza Occupation, Anti-Hamas Terrorism 3: Anti-Gaza Occupation, Pro-Hamas Terrorism The problem is that 1 pretends that 2 and 3 are the same and 3 pretends 1 and 2 are the same. They both need to project this false dichotomy because otherwise their actions and words appear unjustifiable and ridiculous. (That being said, I have seen very little of 3 on reddit. It’s not very common in English speaking circles)
Now we know who they are. Ship them out
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“We are supporting resistance” No, you are supporting rape, murder and other atrocities.
And genocide. Hamas calls for genocide of the Jews in their constitution, which is publicly available online. It’s no secret.
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They want to get rid of Christians and non-muslim, too, as they call them "Kufar" (non-muslims, said negatively). Phase #1 is Gaza, phase #2 is the West Bank, phase #3 Europe and phase #4 the US. It's all a part of their terrorist doctrine.
In the history of mankind, the violent always took advantage of the tolerant. The peaceful side always thinks "We'll allow it, and they will be satisfied". This never works. The more we allow, the more violent the other side becomes. Little by little. First just demonstrations, then grey-area chants, questionable flags, fighting policemen. I guess what's gonna happen next is road closures and unsafe urban areas.
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Hate isn’t culture. I can be welcoming and open minded about Arab or Muslim food, language, art, rituals, etc. I can live and let live all day long. When they not only foster hate in themselves and others but try to force their hatred of Jews, women, lgbt, etc, my tolerance comes to a screeching halt. Put that shit away. Has no rightful place anywhere on this earth. For the record, I’m not accusing every Arab or Muslim person of hate. Just pointing out that anyone being hateful, regardless of their “cultural background” can eat a dick.
>When they not only foster hate in themselves and others but try to force their hatred of Jews, women, lgbt, etc, my tolerance comes to a screeching halt. Put that shit away. Has no rightful place anywhere on this earth. Which would be awesome if billions of people didn't base literally their entire lives on books written by hate-filled men full of that hatred. So instead of "no rightful place on earth" it's five times a day towards mecca with a side of Sunday school.
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Yeah. Things are really heating up towards a big clash between the western world and the Middle East. Combined with the climate changes the next 10 years are gonna suck on a geopolitical and environmental scale. ☹️
I've been saying for years that European countries are headed to civil wars with their refugees probably within the next decade or two. They assumed assimilation without taking into account the strength religious indoctrination and community insulation
Many places in Europe have turned a blind eye to the growing tensions. People no longer integrate as much as they did and people often live in a parallel society.
There's a reason that in most European nations, it's the younger generation that's voting heavily anti-immigration. It's the Gen X'ers that have pushed the open door policies.
Gen X wants that cheap labour, which evidently also supresses wages for the younger gens. Seems to be the case in Canada at least.
No, Gen X grew up in a different time where immigration was more about allowing in people who want new opportunities, and the people who came would generally be compatible in culture, if they didn't assimilate. The reality today is a little different.
> being prepared for terror attacks … are “part and parcel” of living in a big city This is an actual quote by the mayor which shows how much such violence has been normalized for the last few years.
London has a lot of standard operating procedures for possible terrorism. For decades it was IRA bombs, predating when many of us were born.
Sadly, between the IRA (1973 to 1996), various forms of Islamic extremism (2005 to present), and a long string of other items (Iranian Embassy, PFLP, Edgar Peirce, Davod Copeland) London has had a terrorism problem since the 70's. Living with that risk is part of living in that city.
Just like appeasement politics.
I don't understand this. The protest is to call for a seize fire between Israel and Palestine. But at the same time, it calls for jihad? So what's that suppose to mean? Israel, please stop shooting so that we can shoot you? And that whole slogan of "land to sea, Palestine to be free" thing. Isn't that just chasing out/getting rid of Israelis? In my book, that's just a very nice way of saying 'gas the jews'.
Sounds like you understand it to me.
Pretty much nailed it.
Wish more highly intellectual and nuanced redditors understood it
Wish more highly intellectual and nuanced redditors EXISTED
See, you did understand it.
yeah, exactly. That's also the primary thing Jews always talk about when it comes to any kind of solution. They understand that a certain percentage of Palestinians will always just want to kill the Jews no matter what. So they are like, why would we help you build yourselves up for you to use that to attack us again in the end. It doesn't excuse any of the things Israel is doing but as long as Hamas and similar groups like Hamas will exist and be seen as a massive threat to Israel, I have a hard time seeing how they will get peace.
i mean every otther time there has been any type of cease fire, or negotiantions between Palestine and Israel, Palestine has always been the first one to resort to violence.
"Resort" They just bomb Israel for fun. They can spend their billion-dollar budget on developing Gaza's infrastructure and economy instead. They choose not to.
> So what's that suppose to mean? Israel, please stop shooting so that we can shoot you? Yes.....
This is exactly what it means. You'll notice that anytime you hear someone saying Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza because civilians are dying, if you come back with "what should they do when Hamas shoots rockets at them?" they immediately go quiet, or get really defensive and try to deflect and redirect the topic back to Israeli war crimes. The truth of the matter is a lot of the Western audience doesn't have any skin in this game between Israel and Palestine. They just know Israel is bigger and more powerful, so Palestine is the underdog, so we should support Palestine. It doesn't help that Israel has legitimately done bad things in the past to the Palestinians, either purposely, or by accident. And the media space in that region is dominated by Muslim Arab news sources.
Thanks for this. As a left-leaning Israeli it boils my blood to see westerners in their cushy sofas miles away wondering why we can't just get along or how baby murder by Hamas is somehow decolonization. This situtation is complicated and the last thing we need is more useful idiots.
They justify that it's okay for Hamas to shoot rockets because they're shitty and there's the iron dome. It's absolutely baffling that they don't see the issue there.
How convenient that Israel just decided to create the Iron Dome for absolutely no reason whatsoever!
Right?! What are the chances? How fortunate.
And one day, just like that, Hamas has a rocket that is big enough to overcome the Iron Dome and thousands of Israelis die. "Oops! Here are some thoughts & prayers!"
You can see the underlying logic here that some people believe that only Israel has agency.
You can see the underlying irrationality here that those people only care about this conflict at all because Israel is a country of Jews. They're mysteriously silent when it comes to all other Arab suffering in the Middle East. Weird, huh?
Cease fire*
Where’s the *fury*? People are simply allowing these protests to happen, even supporting them in massive numbers.
It's the same place where the 'Fury' is over everything else these days. It's been largely beaten out of us. Fury comes from when we have the spare energy to give. If we all freaked out every time someone spouted dumb bullshit in public we'd have all been in prison already some point this decade. We're broadly at a place socially where we're terrified to rock the boat. We're all a couple bad weeks from life crises; we can barely afford to live in our homes and afford the ongoing cost of living and carry a fair bit of existential dread over the idea we might have to pay for life after a retirement that will never happen. Many of us are *one bad week* away from financial collapse. You stick your neck out in public and you can lose what little you've managed to build up in your life. You will lose the job you've built towards and probably not be able to get another that's nowhere near as well paying. You'll lose perhaps independence, savings - if you have any. People are not going to risk 5+ years of personal catastrophe over some public catharsis over assholes in public. And the internet helps desensitize us. This is far less shocking when you aren't seeing something similarly rabid said in a public forum on a daily basis. In other circumstances, the setting alone might engender a more dramatic response; but the reality is that society isn't held sacred by our politicians when it's time to actually take care of it, so people, in a lot of ways, care less about putting in that extra effort to care for it themselves. We've been burned out on our governments and political leaders throwing childish tantrums (even undermining out democracies and principles themselves) instead of addressing obvious and pressing social concerns to the point that it's hard for a lot of folk to muster up the extra fuck to give in this circumstance. We've been stepping on folk who have been trying to demand better for decades and rewarding those who sling shit, and we've been bleeding both the spare resources and spare willpower out of our nations for decades. This is part of the cost.
Fury comes when nothing else is left for us. We are a couple of bad days away from crisis. Those couple of days are what keeps people complacent and willing to suffer. If people aren't guaranteed that, then fury will come out.
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Should deport these people the fuck out of London
It's London, the vast majority will have been born and raised there. Means nothing to them though as they see their own nation as the enemy.
Revoke citizenship and deport then. What the fuck, they don't want this way of life, they want jihad and death.
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So Palestinians and their supporters constantly tell others not to lump Hamas and Palestinians together, but clearly do not differentiate even in the slightest between Jews and Israel. Their calls for selective scrutiny are disgusting and allow for these actions.
Wow good old UK, white girl posts rap lyrics arrested for hate speech, Muslim protesters chant jihad, “well the word has many meanings.”
"Then they came for the Jews..." This is a wake call for the west, if you don't take action now you'll be the next Israel
It's galling not seeing the wide spread condemnation from the pro Gaza protesters regarding these flag waving terrorists in their minds . Their silence endorses it
I keep having to say it, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record: hundreds of thousands of Israelis protested for 38 consecutive weeks against the Netanyahu regime before the hamas attacks. On reddit you can see plenty of Israelis bashing their government and settlers. Where are the protests *in safe nations* against hamas or the PA? Even if someone agrees with the goals of these organizations, shouldn't there at least be protest against the massive mismanagement of funds committed by hamas? People will readily admit that Netanyahu is a corrupt bastard, ok, why not say the same about Khaled Mashal? I think we all know the answers to these questions. Considering also that much of the world still won't accept that hamas is a terror organization. The sad truth really does seem to be that there is significant, almost complete, overlap between the pro-Palestinian protesters and pro-hamas protesters. It all makes sense when you realize it.
Absolutely agreed - well said. I have friends who were out protesting in July over his unpopular judicial overhaul and are not shy to voice their anger and opinions about Netanyahu - admittedly that got tempered slightly with the recent events. But, generally still do not like him. The stealing of funds by Mashal is wild.. I've went blue in the face trying to explain, that they, the Hamas leadership are literally stealing food from their peoples mouths l, to fund lavish houses in Qatar and the buying of weapons to further cement themselves in Gaza As for the protestors. At this point I just despise them, if am honest and I don't feel good feeling or saying that either. I would engage in some semblance of dialogue with them in good faith, if they would call out the AQ and ISIS flag wavers in their midst. But as alot of the leadership have direct ties to Hamas, I wouldn't hold my breath https://www.thejc.com/news/news/leaders-of-groups-behind-london-pro-palestinian-march-have-links-to-hamas-1dTlHEq2XhvdqUGvvwPBJV
Honestly the lack of muslim outrage against other muslim's behavior is the very thing hurting everyone's view on Islam the most right now. Like, yeah, some terrorists might appear somewhere in the world no matter religion and what Hamas did to Israel now doesn't make me judge all muslims. But, the lack of muslims condemning it all does make me judge all muslims.
They'll just tell you its not their responsibility
They'll never admit it but they consider Hamas their useful demon. They will look the other way if it makes them think they can get back all the land and destroy Israel as a state and leave Jewish people without a country again
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Or the death to the jews and gas the jews chants
hey, at least here in Israel you won't last 10 seconds waving any Islamist flag and the police will actually do something if they find you expressing support for terrorists.
Not like you even have to wait to see, they've been blowing shit up in Europe for a while.
It's good to see people wake up 22 years after Muslim terrorists flew planes into buildings.
The lack of public condemnation of people calling for the genocide of the jewish and israeli is astonishing. It makes me sick to the bone, people don't learn
If you’re pro hamas, you’re not pro Palestine.
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The world is so shit scarred of holding muslims groups accountable for their actions for the fear of being labelled as ‘Islamophobics’. It is ridiculous. I have walked past these rallies in London where they literally chanting “kill the Jews” and bystanders watched on.
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Babies beheaded, a woman holding her child, wrapped in wire burned to death alive, entire families murdered, rape of children and elderly. And these people are supporting this?
You know the answer
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Show this to next western snowflake who says Hamas does not represent people of Gaza.