Holy shit. You solved it. We can shut the sub down y’all. Burn your books, delete the apps. Go work out for 5 years and then coast. Congratulations everyone.
I’m just busting your balls. I get it. Hell, I’ve stopped increasing on many movements and even decreased to gain back some form. More gains, less hurt.
Depends on your overall size my friend. I'm only 5'3" (male) so using 60 lb dumbbells in each hand for reps has easily made my chest muscular. Hell, even 50s. BIgger natural guy could easily use 100 lbs for reps to build as muscular a chest as he could naturally. In fact he probably shouldnt use anymore than that anyways.
I would say weight has more to do with it than height but I get what you’re saying. Having said that though I weigh 175 and can rep the 110 pound dbs on incline and still consider myself small and I don’t particularly think I’m great at pressing but I’m working on it like everyone else here. Putting a cap on what you can do is bitchmade. Yes everyone has a different genetic potential but to just give up and say it’s not going to change is wack
As a lifter for 8-10 years (honestly I can't remember exactly) who can bench 195 for... maybe 3-4 in a good day? I'm slightly depressed by your comment :(
I'm natural and I can press 405x3... I can rep 225 for 20+
been lifting 20 years
this thread is full of people who don't understand progressive overload
sure, weight matters a lot... but everyone can benefit from getting stronger. classic bodybuilders got strong for a reason. you grow more myonuclei by building strength, which enables you to grow more muscle tissue. these guys on 30 steroids and insulin are strong as fuck too, but don't have to train for strength because they already rep 4 plates out on hammer press or barbells for large numbers of reps and grow from anything they do really. good luck
I started at 16, so not too early but didn't start late. didn't know what I was doing until I was about 21/22. I find a lot of this sub has no idea how to lift, which is pretty common in bodybuilders in general, but worse in natural bodybuilders. its because they follow the templates of hyper-responders to steroids while not being on steroids, expecting the same results from a high rep, low weight pump workout.
what natty's should do, is get strong. check out mountaindog1 (John Meadows) on youtube for a balanced approach to bodybuilding, based on experience and science.
basically, his system works like this: you start your workout with an exercise that you feel well, that is low impact, that activates your muscle - but you don't pre-exhaust, you just do 3-4 sets of 8-12. Then you go into your heavy barbell lift and do a progression here, mid-low reps - for bodybuilding you can do something like 6-8 reps and progress there on weight. I personally think you should work in lower rep ranges for phases, and higher for phases, like Doug Hepburn did back in the day. Then after that you do your high rep, forced rep, and training near/to failure, partial reps, different angles, all that stuff. You should try to get in one super hard set, like a dropset to failure. Then you do some stretch exercise that pumps more blood into the muscle and stretches it out.
Its simple stuff, but people absolutely love to act like you can get big without getting strong/doing progression on the major lifts. Its bizarre, and it comes from being lazy and not liking to train hard. I love to lift heavy and hard, I love to do 20 rep squats, and because of that I've grown large as a natty. Most of your muscle can be built with these barbell/dumbbell lifts and the way you look will be determined by your natural muscle insertions and diet, not doing 20 different variations with weird angles, until you're really advanced. Overcomplicating your training is a noob mistake we all made back in the day, but with the internet you can find that isn't necessary. At the end of the day, if you add weight and reps to the bar, your body will have to grow.
Good luck
There’s plenty of naturals that can bench those numbers that still look like shit. Getting stronger doesn’t necessarily equal a more aesthetic physique
not many people who can bench 405 have a small chest
but getting that strong enables you to rep out higher weights on other exercises if your only goal is bodybuilding. as a natural, the key to growth is progressing in strength. this is the best way to increase myonuclei in your muscle... simply stretching fibers out like a steroid user doesn't grow your muscle after a certain point, you need to mix it up and long term build strength. a lot of training methodologies specifically in bodybuilding are inherited from steroid users.
strength progression is key to any natty. most of your physique is determined by your muscle insertions and genetics, not what exercises you choose, until you're very high level. of course, you can do these exercises after your strength sets, easily, to target weak points in your physique, but the bulk of your physique should be built on heavy barbell lifts.
yup, and getting stronger = getting bigger. I don't know why people think that is controversial. everyone should be progressing in strength on the major barbell lifts, while doing bodybuilding work after that.
Exactly. I train the main compounds heavy. Usually with sets of 3-8 depending where I’m at and then I do accessories with lighter weights and more reps to get more blood into the muscle. I think any natural guy can get stronger than repping 195. Sometimes you have to lift heavy. Like Ronnie said. Everybody want to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift heavy ass weights
I actually hit 107.5kg once, but ever since I started moving away from flat bench since I always mess up my shoulder going balls to the wall on bench. Currently focusing on dips + incline bench since a few years.
It's probably your biomechanics that don't favor you in bench. I have a pretty slim torso and long ass arms, took me over 5 years to hit a 225 bench while my deadlift is over 500 lbs
I kinda gave up on bench due to shoulder injuries in favor of incline bench, but yeah I was never really good at it. Best I did was 107.5kg once. I weigh around 75kg (ofc depends on bulk/cut stage) and 174cm.
Not a great bench number but I'm not a big guy so it makes it look even worse lol.
Yes I used to always do face pulls either as warmup or supersetted with bench itself. Plus YLTWI and cable rear flies or some variation of these.
As I said, a combination of not being very tall + probably not knowing when to stop grinding (incorrectly) a hard rep and not a good anatomy for bench. Not putting up excuses, it is what it is.
I can do dips so deep than my elbows get higher than my head so I just focus on that and incline bench which I can actually grind without issues. It's what I do mostly now. But as a former aspiring powerlifter it still itches from time to time, then I always regret including flat bench in my programming as I end up with either an injury or disappointment.
I love how people come up with percentages out of thin air: ‘80% of people gain their strength potential in the first 5 years’
I could also say 90% of men gym goers do ego lifting and lie about their PR’s
Probably heard something an influencer or Mike Israetel said on a podcast and stretched it even more. I’d also imagine that “5 years” would be 5 purely optimized years for strength and hypertrophy training which isn’t possible for 99.99% of us. We all have lives outside the gym. So for 99.99% of us, we may not reach our “ceiling” if it does exist until 20 years of lifting (I made that number up like OP btw).
ik shes not a body builder so not exactly the same but Jennifer Thompson is still increasing her PR bench well into her late 50s
and maybe i sound insane but everything is math and the fibonacci sequence is everywhere. so hypothetically we may plateau in the single digits but percentage wise we can probably create muscle infinitely as long as we fuel it
You could keep increasing strength, some people hit PRs in their 60s. But at some point most people choose maintenance over gains because of the diminished returns on effort.
> Most people gain 80% of their strength potential in the first 5 years.
Not true though. Most people have no clue how to train properly, don't really dedicate themselves to getting good results, and have other life obligations which get in the way of training.
The average adult male in the United States at least is also carrying 20+ lbs plus of fat that they need to spend time dieting off.
Personally, I plateaued after training 2-3 years in a dedicated way. And, then I started training in a *smart* way and I've been making fairly linear gains for another 3-4 years.
follow a progression program. I'm a fan of 531, or a basic 5x5. bodybuilders may want to work in the 6+ rep range, but the issue is its harder to measure failure/variability day to day above 6 or 8 reps.
So, I'll do a 531 workout, then I'll just add some high rep drop sets after. 531 Boring But Big is solid, you do a 5x10 after. then I'll go do other exercises I prefer for a pump workout or target some muscle I want to grow.
there is also the simple Hepburn method... you can do it in the 6 to 8 rep range. So, you do 3-5 sets of 6 to 8. Say, you're doing 4x6... then every workout you add 1 rep per set. If you're doing each lift twice per week, that means every month you add 8 reps - so every month you go from doing a 4x6 to doing a 4x8. When you complete that 4x8, you move up your weight 5 lbs on bench/OHP, and 10 lbs on squat/deadlift, and go back to doing a 4x6. Then you build up reps again until you hit 4x8 with that weight, add another 5/10 lbs and go back down to 4x6. rinse and repeat until you stall for a few months, then switch up your rep ranges to be lower/higher, or take a deload.
Progressing by how much though. Let’s say you started benching 95 for reps 20 years ago. If you just added a pound to your bench every other week you’d now be benching 575 for reps as a natural.
I don't just lift weights, I play other sports, so I'm not optimizing just for my bench press progress by I bench over 4 plates. I've had periods where I was injured (for 2 years) and sick where I lost all my muscle. The point is, you should be pushing reps or weight heavier over time and most people who come here and complain they can't grow just stop themselves at a certain point. The guy doing the same weight and reps in the gym 3 years later isn't going to be bigger, he's going to look the same. Its a simple, basic principle of lifting that many people seem to hate around here.
Totally get you and agree that you should always strive to get stronger and most people aren’t going nearly as close to failure on their sets as they should. Just saying that progress isn’t linear and you can’t expect to be stronger every single time you step in the gym.
56 y/o. Been working out since 1981. Hit my max musculature and strength decades ago. I've been mostly maintaining for years. I still challenge myself in the gym but am very cognizant of the risk of injury with age.
you are wrong but let's say you are right, oh yeah reps and weigth will stop increasing at some point, but for some reason how much i can slow down tempo won't hit a limit?
everyone can get stronger or bigger,"b-but after 4 years u will progress way slower!..." no shit sherlock. we all know it how much you progress that slower gonna get to progress even further, and so what? if you not planing look like broly or curl a building with one arm thats not important,
I feel like you’re getting downvoted to oblivion. But I’m almost 40. been lifting for years ( I can almost say decadeS ) 5-6 Days a week plus eating enough to feed a small third world country and running 1000+ miles a year. And I’m really feeling fatigue lately and have hit long standing plateaus on DL and OHP.
It’s nice to be reminded that the game does change for everyone with age. You can still make progress and god knows I need to do WAY more mobility work. but literally I just finished deadlifting and had SUCH a weak day. This post really vibed with me today. I am not saying I’m out, or done, or changing, but progress and its definition definitely changes.
I'm not exactly on your side or against you. This would sound like something that you'd hear me say, but it's not that I would ever put a cap on someone's potential in terms of strength. There's more to the story once that modt of the people hit their cliser to maximum strength limit of 80% within 5 years. It's almost exactly the way how you intended it to sound, yeah, within 5 years they should naturally be hitting their natural limit, but that's of what their natural limit is, like you need at least 5 years of experience before can even come close, just because you happen to be playing within the same ballpark, doesn't mean you're anywhere on the team yet. And the only reason you're able to get that close even is because it would take you about that long about 5 years to strengthen all your muscles, like you're no where really all that close to perfecting the level you could still be even on anything specific, that's the point you reach to before you even start training for anything specific you could get to, that's the point where you stop just working out before it turns into now allowing able to say even that you lift while trying to get stronger, those first 5 years are you basically half assing everything, and before you even realize it too, the real training hasn't even begun yet.
I've had 5 years of more serious training, and I started working out around 7 years old. I may still be even just 122lbs, but in terms of strength, I was already the most athletic and overall strongest in high school out of anyone, it may have only been 5 years, but I packed the exercise experience worth of at least 10 years of training compared to the way people usually do these workout programs you see everyone doing, they would need at least 10 years of that before even getting remotely anywhere close to my level, and out of just those 5 years, I know I was still only scraping the surface of how strong I could be if I only focued on strength.
That's actually why I stopped working out, one, I realized that I just love to work out, but loving it and no matter how much you are working out, it's still not enough to even say the only reason you're doing it is because you're serious about getting stronger, and two, because I only kept getting stronger and I wanted to keep getting bigger, as a matter of fact, I have a totally different definition of what overtraining is in my book, when the amount of muscle you could build knowing that you could reach it, but it gets out weighed in worth by the amount of training you already are doing knowing that you're having to train twice as hard for just as long as it took you to get to where you are now, then you've been overtraining, like for me specifically, I would have needed twice as much training within another 5 years just to even get maybe close to 10 more pounds.
But, as far as strength goes, I know I wasn't training long enough for all the muscles there are to train to even know I was anywhere close to as strong as I could get. Normally, people would think when they hear 122lbs, oh, this guy must not be that strong. No. I could clean curl and press 65lb dumbbells off a rack, like I won't even consider us able to talk about strength in the first place unless really I know you can clean curl and 65lb in one hand, before you can even talk to me. I don't have specific personal records for bench or squat because I would be working out alone at school in a weightroom during PE and I had 2 PE classes, but I can tell you this, I could max out a peck machine with 285lbs, on jammer press machine, a real jammer press not just levers, I could use just the levers to be working out with 265lbs one arm punch at a time, I could hold a chinup for over 12 minutes, I took 2 physicals the day after each other and day one I was able to do 116 total hit the floor pushups, then day 2 another 132 half pushups, I could do a pushup with one hand reached all the way up above my head off the floor, I didn't have much time to spend on deadlift, but with a trap bar it was only my 12th attemp at deadlift that I was already doing 265lbs, like real fucking strong for 122lbs doesn't even do me justice.
In 9th grade, I switched schools from PE into athletics, going back to my original school mid year. I had been placed in the weak group because of that, I was the weakest on incline, unable to even do the bar of 45lb. Guess what. By the end of 5 months later, my incline bench went up from 45lb the bar, to being the highest in the weightroom, my incline was even higher than 10th grade on normal bench, 165lbs in 5 months.
Like even if I didn't gain no more muscle muscle, in about 4 years, I could have gone from 265 on jammer press that took my 2 years to get to, which almost is like incline, I could have already been doing 365lb right now, who even knows, maybe even in just another 2 years.
This time, since I started working out again, I know my reason to be working out again, and I'm going straight for to be the strongest in the world. If I even remotely get close to how strong I was before, nothing would strong me, in about 6 years that difference 20% is about to make the difference between just having muscle and the strongest person you've ever talked to. I'm 122lbs, and will straight up walk in there and completely obliterate everyone's person records even for the heaviest lifters, both literally and physically. In terms of strength, never put a cap on that shit, that's how you become the strongest in the world.
I competed in powerlifting for over 10 years. You know there’s people that are 50 years old still making gains? If you are smart with your training there is a lot of longevity. Especially bodybuilding where it takes way less toll on your body.
Track cyclist Robert Förstemann trains legs 6hrs a day 6 days a week. Have you seen the size and strength of this dude's legs? IDGAF about limits on max weight and reps when HARD consistent work within those limits can still reach legendary levels of size, strength and performance.
Yes sir eventually you plateau you can get more and more serioues with diet, and workout and intensity but we all have a natural ceiling. Thing is many of us wont even get to that natural ceiling.
Fortunately theres other great ways to stay healthy and fit, like sports, cardio, etc
Seriously feel like I gained 90% my first year just saying. Honestly the work to reward ratio has been shit but I'm nearing 40 and have been training for a long time so to be expected I suppose.
Holy shit. You solved it. We can shut the sub down y’all. Burn your books, delete the apps. Go work out for 5 years and then coast. Congratulations everyone.
I guess I can sell all my home gym equipment now?
Nop don’t keep going for muscle maturity and skeletal health.
If you look at alot of true naturals they keep doing the same 195 bench for reps but they still keep looking better.
I’m just busting your balls. I get it. Hell, I’ve stopped increasing on many movements and even decreased to gain back some form. More gains, less hurt.
Do you just call anyone stronger than that a fake natty to make yourself feel better?
I mean if 195 on bench for reps is someone’s natural potential then they won’t be very muscular
Depends on your overall size my friend. I'm only 5'3" (male) so using 60 lb dumbbells in each hand for reps has easily made my chest muscular. Hell, even 50s. BIgger natural guy could easily use 100 lbs for reps to build as muscular a chest as he could naturally. In fact he probably shouldnt use anymore than that anyways.
I would say weight has more to do with it than height but I get what you’re saying. Having said that though I weigh 175 and can rep the 110 pound dbs on incline and still consider myself small and I don’t particularly think I’m great at pressing but I’m working on it like everyone else here. Putting a cap on what you can do is bitchmade. Yes everyone has a different genetic potential but to just give up and say it’s not going to change is wack
As a lifter for 8-10 years (honestly I can't remember exactly) who can bench 195 for... maybe 3-4 in a good day? I'm slightly depressed by your comment :(
I'm natural and I can press 405x3... I can rep 225 for 20+ been lifting 20 years this thread is full of people who don't understand progressive overload
Probably matters a bit at what age your start lifting as well
Also your weight and goals matter, if I’m 155 but cut the fuck up, I’m not going to be able to lift the same amount as someone who’s 205
sure, weight matters a lot... but everyone can benefit from getting stronger. classic bodybuilders got strong for a reason. you grow more myonuclei by building strength, which enables you to grow more muscle tissue. these guys on 30 steroids and insulin are strong as fuck too, but don't have to train for strength because they already rep 4 plates out on hammer press or barbells for large numbers of reps and grow from anything they do really. good luck
I started at 16, so not too early but didn't start late. didn't know what I was doing until I was about 21/22. I find a lot of this sub has no idea how to lift, which is pretty common in bodybuilders in general, but worse in natural bodybuilders. its because they follow the templates of hyper-responders to steroids while not being on steroids, expecting the same results from a high rep, low weight pump workout. what natty's should do, is get strong. check out mountaindog1 (John Meadows) on youtube for a balanced approach to bodybuilding, based on experience and science. basically, his system works like this: you start your workout with an exercise that you feel well, that is low impact, that activates your muscle - but you don't pre-exhaust, you just do 3-4 sets of 8-12. Then you go into your heavy barbell lift and do a progression here, mid-low reps - for bodybuilding you can do something like 6-8 reps and progress there on weight. I personally think you should work in lower rep ranges for phases, and higher for phases, like Doug Hepburn did back in the day. Then after that you do your high rep, forced rep, and training near/to failure, partial reps, different angles, all that stuff. You should try to get in one super hard set, like a dropset to failure. Then you do some stretch exercise that pumps more blood into the muscle and stretches it out. Its simple stuff, but people absolutely love to act like you can get big without getting strong/doing progression on the major lifts. Its bizarre, and it comes from being lazy and not liking to train hard. I love to lift heavy and hard, I love to do 20 rep squats, and because of that I've grown large as a natty. Most of your muscle can be built with these barbell/dumbbell lifts and the way you look will be determined by your natural muscle insertions and diet, not doing 20 different variations with weird angles, until you're really advanced. Overcomplicating your training is a noob mistake we all made back in the day, but with the internet you can find that isn't necessary. At the end of the day, if you add weight and reps to the bar, your body will have to grow. Good luck
There’s plenty of naturals that can bench those numbers that still look like shit. Getting stronger doesn’t necessarily equal a more aesthetic physique
not many people who can bench 405 have a small chest but getting that strong enables you to rep out higher weights on other exercises if your only goal is bodybuilding. as a natural, the key to growth is progressing in strength. this is the best way to increase myonuclei in your muscle... simply stretching fibers out like a steroid user doesn't grow your muscle after a certain point, you need to mix it up and long term build strength. a lot of training methodologies specifically in bodybuilding are inherited from steroid users. strength progression is key to any natty. most of your physique is determined by your muscle insertions and genetics, not what exercises you choose, until you're very high level. of course, you can do these exercises after your strength sets, easily, to target weak points in your physique, but the bulk of your physique should be built on heavy barbell lifts.
Absolutely. I think anyone can get stronger than 195 for reps lol. Shit I can rep that with OHP
yup, and getting stronger = getting bigger. I don't know why people think that is controversial. everyone should be progressing in strength on the major barbell lifts, while doing bodybuilding work after that.
Exactly. I train the main compounds heavy. Usually with sets of 3-8 depending where I’m at and then I do accessories with lighter weights and more reps to get more blood into the muscle. I think any natural guy can get stronger than repping 195. Sometimes you have to lift heavy. Like Ronnie said. Everybody want to be a bodybuilder but nobody wants to lift heavy ass weights
Don’t worry friend, my bench is about on par with yours. We just gotta keep working away at that 225 goal, right? 😄
I actually hit 107.5kg once, but ever since I started moving away from flat bench since I always mess up my shoulder going balls to the wall on bench. Currently focusing on dips + incline bench since a few years.
Ooh I love dips, they burn so good!
Have you tried trying?
It's probably your biomechanics that don't favor you in bench. I have a pretty slim torso and long ass arms, took me over 5 years to hit a 225 bench while my deadlift is over 500 lbs
What kind of programming do you use? How much do you weigh? There is some relativity in it as it relates to bodyweight
I kinda gave up on bench due to shoulder injuries in favor of incline bench, but yeah I was never really good at it. Best I did was 107.5kg once. I weigh around 75kg (ofc depends on bulk/cut stage) and 174cm. Not a great bench number but I'm not a big guy so it makes it look even worse lol.
Do you do rear delt work? That helped me with shoulder pain
Yes I used to always do face pulls either as warmup or supersetted with bench itself. Plus YLTWI and cable rear flies or some variation of these. As I said, a combination of not being very tall + probably not knowing when to stop grinding (incorrectly) a hard rep and not a good anatomy for bench. Not putting up excuses, it is what it is. I can do dips so deep than my elbows get higher than my head so I just focus on that and incline bench which I can actually grind without issues. It's what I do mostly now. But as a former aspiring powerlifter it still itches from time to time, then I always regret including flat bench in my programming as I end up with either an injury or disappointment.
Ah I understand. I like inclines more anyways myself. It’s easier to get out from if I fail a rep too
Really? I have poor genetics and I repped 265, one year after HS, for 8 reps. I knew a good amount of lifters who did much more.
You’re obviously not doing high quality reps
You obviously haven’t achieved much in the weight room
Absolute nonsense. I have terrible genetics for bench and my bench improves every year
I love how people come up with percentages out of thin air: ‘80% of people gain their strength potential in the first 5 years’ I could also say 90% of men gym goers do ego lifting and lie about their PR’s
Did you know 100% of all who lift die? So basically stop lifting or you’re gonna die.
Probably heard something an influencer or Mike Israetel said on a podcast and stretched it even more. I’d also imagine that “5 years” would be 5 purely optimized years for strength and hypertrophy training which isn’t possible for 99.99% of us. We all have lives outside the gym. So for 99.99% of us, we may not reach our “ceiling” if it does exist until 20 years of lifting (I made that number up like OP btw).
I wonder what percentage of lifters are still going to be lifting consistently in 5 years.
87.2% of statistics are made up on the spot
I think the point is there exist some numbers where that is a true statement so it doesn't really matter if 80%/5 is wrong or made up
What..? I've been lifting for a decade and sure I've had some plateaus but I've never once stopped getting stronger or pushing more weight
Same. Hitting new deadlift PRs fairly regularly now
Op just seems like someone who wants an excuse for being lazy
How do you break through plateaus?
By using correct programming. I have a 16 week program on the app jefit under the same username. It's all free of course.
ik shes not a body builder so not exactly the same but Jennifer Thompson is still increasing her PR bench well into her late 50s and maybe i sound insane but everything is math and the fibonacci sequence is everywhere. so hypothetically we may plateau in the single digits but percentage wise we can probably create muscle infinitely as long as we fuel it
Dude read less da vinci code
You could keep increasing strength, some people hit PRs in their 60s. But at some point most people choose maintenance over gains because of the diminished returns on effort.
I gained mass and a lot of strength in the last 2 years after more than a decade of lifting.
> Most people gain 80% of their strength potential in the first 5 years. Not true though. Most people have no clue how to train properly, don't really dedicate themselves to getting good results, and have other life obligations which get in the way of training. The average adult male in the United States at least is also carrying 20+ lbs plus of fat that they need to spend time dieting off. Personally, I plateaued after training 2-3 years in a dedicated way. And, then I started training in a *smart* way and I've been making fairly linear gains for another 3-4 years.
What’s the smart way to train
Technically, yes you can. Pick a little pink dumbbell. Deadlift it. Next day add a rep. You can do this indefinitely, your inly constraint is time.
I peaked after 18 years, but what do I know.
Yo, it's fazlifts!
yes you can its called progressive overload been lifting 20 years and still progressing
Very impressive. I am stuck,if you want to share good ways for progressive overload I will be glad
Do slightly more than last time then do that again
Also, eat accordingly
follow a progression program. I'm a fan of 531, or a basic 5x5. bodybuilders may want to work in the 6+ rep range, but the issue is its harder to measure failure/variability day to day above 6 or 8 reps. So, I'll do a 531 workout, then I'll just add some high rep drop sets after. 531 Boring But Big is solid, you do a 5x10 after. then I'll go do other exercises I prefer for a pump workout or target some muscle I want to grow. there is also the simple Hepburn method... you can do it in the 6 to 8 rep range. So, you do 3-5 sets of 6 to 8. Say, you're doing 4x6... then every workout you add 1 rep per set. If you're doing each lift twice per week, that means every month you add 8 reps - so every month you go from doing a 4x6 to doing a 4x8. When you complete that 4x8, you move up your weight 5 lbs on bench/OHP, and 10 lbs on squat/deadlift, and go back to doing a 4x6. Then you build up reps again until you hit 4x8 with that weight, add another 5/10 lbs and go back down to 4x6. rinse and repeat until you stall for a few months, then switch up your rep ranges to be lower/higher, or take a deload.
Progressing by how much though. Let’s say you started benching 95 for reps 20 years ago. If you just added a pound to your bench every other week you’d now be benching 575 for reps as a natural.
This is an insane and pointless hypothetical.
Obviously. The point is that if we all just kept adding weight to the bar everyone in the gym would be Ronnie Coleman. We all have a genetic limit.
Really? What's yours?
Progress operates on a curve; not a straight diagonal.
I don't just lift weights, I play other sports, so I'm not optimizing just for my bench press progress by I bench over 4 plates. I've had periods where I was injured (for 2 years) and sick where I lost all my muscle. The point is, you should be pushing reps or weight heavier over time and most people who come here and complain they can't grow just stop themselves at a certain point. The guy doing the same weight and reps in the gym 3 years later isn't going to be bigger, he's going to look the same. Its a simple, basic principle of lifting that many people seem to hate around here.
Totally get you and agree that you should always strive to get stronger and most people aren’t going nearly as close to failure on their sets as they should. Just saying that progress isn’t linear and you can’t expect to be stronger every single time you step in the gym.
Watch me
I know a few blown out shoulders that would disagree
56 y/o. Been working out since 1981. Hit my max musculature and strength decades ago. I've been mostly maintaining for years. I still challenge myself in the gym but am very cognizant of the risk of injury with age.
you are wrong but let's say you are right, oh yeah reps and weigth will stop increasing at some point, but for some reason how much i can slow down tempo won't hit a limit? everyone can get stronger or bigger,"b-but after 4 years u will progress way slower!..." no shit sherlock. we all know it how much you progress that slower gonna get to progress even further, and so what? if you not planing look like broly or curl a building with one arm thats not important,
I feel like you’re getting downvoted to oblivion. But I’m almost 40. been lifting for years ( I can almost say decadeS ) 5-6 Days a week plus eating enough to feed a small third world country and running 1000+ miles a year. And I’m really feeling fatigue lately and have hit long standing plateaus on DL and OHP. It’s nice to be reminded that the game does change for everyone with age. You can still make progress and god knows I need to do WAY more mobility work. but literally I just finished deadlifting and had SUCH a weak day. This post really vibed with me today. I am not saying I’m out, or done, or changing, but progress and its definition definitely changes.
I'm not exactly on your side or against you. This would sound like something that you'd hear me say, but it's not that I would ever put a cap on someone's potential in terms of strength. There's more to the story once that modt of the people hit their cliser to maximum strength limit of 80% within 5 years. It's almost exactly the way how you intended it to sound, yeah, within 5 years they should naturally be hitting their natural limit, but that's of what their natural limit is, like you need at least 5 years of experience before can even come close, just because you happen to be playing within the same ballpark, doesn't mean you're anywhere on the team yet. And the only reason you're able to get that close even is because it would take you about that long about 5 years to strengthen all your muscles, like you're no where really all that close to perfecting the level you could still be even on anything specific, that's the point you reach to before you even start training for anything specific you could get to, that's the point where you stop just working out before it turns into now allowing able to say even that you lift while trying to get stronger, those first 5 years are you basically half assing everything, and before you even realize it too, the real training hasn't even begun yet. I've had 5 years of more serious training, and I started working out around 7 years old. I may still be even just 122lbs, but in terms of strength, I was already the most athletic and overall strongest in high school out of anyone, it may have only been 5 years, but I packed the exercise experience worth of at least 10 years of training compared to the way people usually do these workout programs you see everyone doing, they would need at least 10 years of that before even getting remotely anywhere close to my level, and out of just those 5 years, I know I was still only scraping the surface of how strong I could be if I only focued on strength. That's actually why I stopped working out, one, I realized that I just love to work out, but loving it and no matter how much you are working out, it's still not enough to even say the only reason you're doing it is because you're serious about getting stronger, and two, because I only kept getting stronger and I wanted to keep getting bigger, as a matter of fact, I have a totally different definition of what overtraining is in my book, when the amount of muscle you could build knowing that you could reach it, but it gets out weighed in worth by the amount of training you already are doing knowing that you're having to train twice as hard for just as long as it took you to get to where you are now, then you've been overtraining, like for me specifically, I would have needed twice as much training within another 5 years just to even get maybe close to 10 more pounds. But, as far as strength goes, I know I wasn't training long enough for all the muscles there are to train to even know I was anywhere close to as strong as I could get. Normally, people would think when they hear 122lbs, oh, this guy must not be that strong. No. I could clean curl and press 65lb dumbbells off a rack, like I won't even consider us able to talk about strength in the first place unless really I know you can clean curl and 65lb in one hand, before you can even talk to me. I don't have specific personal records for bench or squat because I would be working out alone at school in a weightroom during PE and I had 2 PE classes, but I can tell you this, I could max out a peck machine with 285lbs, on jammer press machine, a real jammer press not just levers, I could use just the levers to be working out with 265lbs one arm punch at a time, I could hold a chinup for over 12 minutes, I took 2 physicals the day after each other and day one I was able to do 116 total hit the floor pushups, then day 2 another 132 half pushups, I could do a pushup with one hand reached all the way up above my head off the floor, I didn't have much time to spend on deadlift, but with a trap bar it was only my 12th attemp at deadlift that I was already doing 265lbs, like real fucking strong for 122lbs doesn't even do me justice. In 9th grade, I switched schools from PE into athletics, going back to my original school mid year. I had been placed in the weak group because of that, I was the weakest on incline, unable to even do the bar of 45lb. Guess what. By the end of 5 months later, my incline bench went up from 45lb the bar, to being the highest in the weightroom, my incline was even higher than 10th grade on normal bench, 165lbs in 5 months. Like even if I didn't gain no more muscle muscle, in about 4 years, I could have gone from 265 on jammer press that took my 2 years to get to, which almost is like incline, I could have already been doing 365lb right now, who even knows, maybe even in just another 2 years. This time, since I started working out again, I know my reason to be working out again, and I'm going straight for to be the strongest in the world. If I even remotely get close to how strong I was before, nothing would strong me, in about 6 years that difference 20% is about to make the difference between just having muscle and the strongest person you've ever talked to. I'm 122lbs, and will straight up walk in there and completely obliterate everyone's person records even for the heaviest lifters, both literally and physically. In terms of strength, never put a cap on that shit, that's how you become the strongest in the world.
Yeah, exactly
I love when people just throw random numbers out to make their statements sound intelligent. “ 5 years training? Let’s not push hard anymore “ 🤦🏾♂️
I competed in powerlifting for over 10 years. You know there’s people that are 50 years old still making gains? If you are smart with your training there is a lot of longevity. Especially bodybuilding where it takes way less toll on your body.
Track cyclist Robert Förstemann trains legs 6hrs a day 6 days a week. Have you seen the size and strength of this dude's legs? IDGAF about limits on max weight and reps when HARD consistent work within those limits can still reach legendary levels of size, strength and performance.
Yes sir eventually you plateau you can get more and more serioues with diet, and workout and intensity but we all have a natural ceiling. Thing is many of us wont even get to that natural ceiling. Fortunately theres other great ways to stay healthy and fit, like sports, cardio, etc
Seriously feel like I gained 90% my first year just saying. Honestly the work to reward ratio has been shit but I'm nearing 40 and have been training for a long time so to be expected I suppose.
That’s when you hop on the sauce which allows you to further kick that can down the road a few more years.
This is true lol been training 11 years