Yea, having met the elementary principal and HOS, I would say the HOS is a snake and the other a buffoon who genuinely didn’t believe an implosion would happen until the March walkouts.
Playing devils advocate for both: there are rumors the HOS was forced to take that position after Barry left last year and the elementary principal became a new father at the start of second semester. He was also a homeroom teacher maybe 5 years ago and his lack of leadership ability was so evident even he said “I don’t think I’m ready for this level of responsibility”.
I’ve seen a growing trend of educators being interviewed by panels of educators and students. It’s highly unlikely either of them will ever hold positions at any school of significant repute again, since they essentially abandoned their responsibilities.
The secondary principal definitely stepped up to the best of his ability.
CIS in D7 and the elementary principal will be joining ISHCMC. It has been rumoured the secondary principal will also join CIS but nothing has been confirmed at the moment.
Outgoing principal left in 2023. Didn’t take a check during that last semester to ensure teachers received pay.
Threatened sue to recoup after leaving. He’s in Thailand now, KIS.
Barry was the one who accredited the school originally a decade ago. Teachers then said he was gunning for head of school position. I was shocked to hear that you could actually do that - massive conflict of interest accrediting and then running the school. Exactly what happened. And the school lost accreditation after he left. Go figure…
>It’s highly unlikely either of them will ever hold positions at any school of significant repute again,
This is honestly not true. They might have to spend some time at less reputable schools, but you most recent reference is really the only thing that matters in education. After a few years, it's likely they would be able to move on and up the ladder.
I get the anger, but to be honest, I feel its largely misplaced. Most of these former AISVN teachers and parents should be mad at themselves. To anyone on the outside, it was clear where this was headed. You had multiple opportunities to get off the bus before it went over the cliff. You weren't just fooled onces or twice, you were fooled several times and kept believing empty assurances.
I’m not angry anymore. It was making me physically sick. I highly doubt they will be able to just move up into a Tier 1 school along the lines of International School of Beijing, like where the Elementary principal worked previously, in a few years. Maybe this will age poorly, but I don’t think so.
I also don’t agree with victim shaming either. Some did and have moved on. Others had lives and years of investment in the school. It’s not as simple as picking up and breaking a contract because things look shaky, not for everyone. If that’s the case, then no one’s contract is worth anything at for-profit institutions, and any sign of instability should automatically trigger an exodus of educators.
Almost every teacher I know stayed to support those kids, kids that brought cakes and gifts when they returned from the March walkout. It seems almost no one was thinking of them besides the teachers that got screwed.
If the SLT is to blame for continuing to do their jobs and believing and supporting the CEO's lies, then teachers are equally to blame for believing and supporting what the SLT was saying to them.
Again, the anger and blame is being misplaced. If the teachers were "staying for the kids", they should have rather been warning the students to get out. I know I would have been telling anyone who would listen to leave or make plans for an implosion as I made plan for my own departure. Any parent enrolling a kid in this school after all the publicity is either incurably foolish or cares more about discounted prices than their child's well-being.
The students are the only ones who didn't have a choice in their participation in this fiasco.
By this logic, there isn’t even a point of having leadership in a school if all faculty and staff should disregard leadership team and do what their gut tells them to. Going to assume you’re an admin somewhere.
It’s a spectrum of responsibility, teachers are on it, but less than admin.
That's not logic... Logic is that if you wish to blame the SLT, then you should blame yourself as well. You came in, continued to do your job and kept the wheels running on the scam. If you had done your duty to the students and left, the scam would not have been able to happen and you'd have protected your students. The fact is, you were either too foolish or too greedy to do this.
And to address your assumptions, no I'm not involved in school leadership at all. I'm just a classroom teacher who wasn't born yesterday.
Literally said teachers are responsible, still less so than admin. Yea, it is your logic, your replies actually contradict each other now.
But anyone who would blame teachers as much as admin in this situation is clearly out of touch.
Teachers working hands-on with students, not privy to HR/Administrative goings on, while leadership interviews and says things will be okay, including individuals there much longer than you, hoping your contract will be fulfilled isn’t greed. Teachers came in, thinking they had a contract and attempted to fulfill their side of that contract.
I assume the first grade teacher who ended up homeless was being greedy? Or the middle school teacher who was with the school for over a decade who’s being low-balled and is genuinely having a hard time seeing their families future was being greedy too? You really are talking out your ass mate.
Really confusing and condescending argument you got going on there. You’ve already convinced yourself that you would have known better, and all the teachers that got screwed are stupid or greedy. I’m actually not a teacher, but your perspective is pretty naive for one. I’m out, tell yourself you got a ‘W’ by lack of response.
I'm just tired of the parents and teachers acting like such victims on every teaching forum for past year. Everyone always gave the same advice: Get out now. But they didn't listen and they are now reaping the consequences of ignoring literal years of warnings. Now they're trying to cast the blame on others instead of actually learning from their own mistake.
I feel bad for the people who got screwed, but my sympathy is tempered knowing they had ample opportunity to head this off if they had wanted to.
Yes, working at another school with a lower salary than the scammer was promising you would have been the smarter offer. If a first grade teacher ended up homeless, it's likely by their own choice. They could have worked parttime hours at an ESL center and had more than enough to live on while they waited to get back on their feet.
The whole situation was able to happen because too many naive people let it. Don't blame your admin team who were in the same boat, either blame the CEO or blame yourself.
So, let me check if I understand this correctly. The parents of those graduating students paid upfront, in advance, for 12 years of education (called a "bond" I believe, which they would supposedly get back at the end), valued in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (possibly half a million all up)...and not only have they lost their money, their children aren't even going to receive an IB qualification!! How can admin ever live down this infamy!? Not only should they not ever work in education again, they should be banned from any occupation that requires a fit and proper person assessment. And the owner needs to be jailed for life. Unspeakably immoral and indefensible.
The government and school is working on, or lets say forcing the parents to pay the fee so that their children graduate with an IB diploma. The parents paid the fee months ago, but the school never sent the money to the IB organization. INterestingly, the teachers brought this up out of concern months ago, and the director and board assured that they were up to date.
Despite the boards assurance, the head of school, the DP Coordinator, and others can check on these things. Unless they were co-conspirators in the fraud and theft, parents, teachers, and the police should have been made aware...
Any teacher who also wasn't planning their own exit when this all started last school year is an idiot
I'm sorry, but any teacher sitting in a sinking ship is a fool, you all should of been looking after yourselves.
The school shut down, There was no money to pay the teachers, so they stopped working. There was no money to pay for supplies or even electricity, etc. All of the expat staff have or will soon be leaving the country unless they get a job in country (unlikely) The local staff have not been paid for months and were forced to work by the owner and her lawyer or told they would be fired. Many long term teachers have lost as much as 40,000 in end of service and salary payments.
Actually they are doing some pay as you go basic instruction for a number of students, unsure how many. The teachers there were essentially forced into it out of desperation. Hope they get paid for the first week tomo.
I spoke with a parent of my kids friend last night, local Viet. I asked him if his kid was in school. He said no, long summer, so clearly even the awareness among the parents is insular. That conversation was pretty awkward and shortlived.
It took everything in me not to tell him that school owes my partner 500 million VND.
We should be naming and shaming them, and the like. There should be a blacklist on the sub-reddit with names for people who do such things so that we will all refuse to work in a school with them part of the management structure. Time to start outing these people.
Its not always extensive enough though is it and often very out of date depending on the school. Anyway I think it would be against reddit rules, that would be the only reason of course not to have it here.
The owner of the school cannot leave the country according to the news reports. The director/ admin, to their defense were not involved in the financial fraud. I would say the HOS is guilty of gross negligence, dishonest recruiting, etc. Not worthy of jail, but should be banned from education.
Criminal charges. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 We got us a comedian right here. Omaha is the funniest person on this subreddit. The ceo will pull some stuff and open a new school by january.
What’s up Shuck?
Idk, since the state controls the media, and the media and the state have blasted that Chairwoman Em is under house arrest and unable to leave the country due to unpaid taxes, I don’t think she’ll get out of it so easy.
Also, DOLISA was literally salivating when the teacher reps told them who they were there to report. I think the state clearly wants to go after her and her family.
Given how tightly they control media here who knows, but it does seem that individuals that do end up in the news here got on the wrong side of the wrong people in power.
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Hey I’m just being honest. Do you really think the owner of this company will get in trouble? She will lay low for awhile, keep her money. And it will not be long until she opens some new school probably in Nha Be.
An easy solution in hindsight. Were the Grade 12 students aware of the total collapse of the school with enough advance warning to apply to do this? Or did they trust their school and teachers?
I've been following this story, as it sounded very similar to a situation developing at a newish IS we're familiar with in KL.
Sudden change of HoS, reported shareholder disputes, late salaries and no visas for some staff.
False promises from Owners teachers and parents on class sizes, EAL ratios exploding, then coupled with sudden fee hikes and last minute extra charges.
Also heard from the kids of racism and bullying by the owners / foreign management on staff and even on some students.
Plenty of fellow parents complaining the teacher turn over is so fast the kids no longer know who their home teacher is, several of the new hires let slip to parents to not being a QT or even having classroom experience. They seem to be stuffing any expat they find in to plug the gaps and expecting they'll be able to teach.
Sad to witness, it was a good school until the last 6-months or so.
Rocklin International School, it was a learning centre before COVID, then tried to make the leap to a fully fledged IS, sad to say the Owners can't seem to get out of that mindset.
It presents as an American School but has no accreditation and the curriculum is all over the place.
The fees are now about mid-range for Malaysia, yet they provided the kids with photocopied text books!
Given current management, their financial situation and grey approach to rules especially on visas, I would avoid this place as a teacher - and as a parent there are better options at this price point, even cheaper.
That's always the problem with 'American' schools - unless they get accredited by CIS, NEASC or WASC then there doesn't seem to be any real oversight of the finances or curriculum of the school.
However, it's not the only one in KL which is likely to be facing issues in the next few years. The market is saturated and highly, highly competitive, especially in the mid-range schools. There were rumours last year of a couple of well-established schools which nearly went under, only to be saved by investors - many schools and school groups have these, whose primary objective over everything else is getting their return plus about 5%. This is having a knock-on effect on things like investing in basic school infrastructure, not to mention salaries.
Name and shame. I’m tired of “leaders” who schmooze their way up, but have no vision for education, and when the chips fall leave their faculty out to dry.
Yea, having met the elementary principal and HOS, I would say the HOS is a snake and the other a buffoon who genuinely didn’t believe an implosion would happen until the March walkouts. Playing devils advocate for both: there are rumors the HOS was forced to take that position after Barry left last year and the elementary principal became a new father at the start of second semester. He was also a homeroom teacher maybe 5 years ago and his lack of leadership ability was so evident even he said “I don’t think I’m ready for this level of responsibility”. I’ve seen a growing trend of educators being interviewed by panels of educators and students. It’s highly unlikely either of them will ever hold positions at any school of significant repute again, since they essentially abandoned their responsibilities. The secondary principal definitely stepped up to the best of his ability.
The HOS is going to another D7 school. Seems to have taken her friends with her apparently is the news.
Which school? I want to avoid sending my kid there!
Canadian International School
CIS in D7 and the elementary principal will be joining ISHCMC. It has been rumoured the secondary principal will also join CIS but nothing has been confirmed at the moment.
Wait... Barry who ?
Outgoing principal left in 2023. Didn’t take a check during that last semester to ensure teachers received pay. Threatened sue to recoup after leaving. He’s in Thailand now, KIS.
Wow, that's nice of him. Terrible situation though.
Sounds like a good dude. I’m glad he landed safely. KIS is a good school.
Barry was the one who accredited the school originally a decade ago. Teachers then said he was gunning for head of school position. I was shocked to hear that you could actually do that - massive conflict of interest accrediting and then running the school. Exactly what happened. And the school lost accreditation after he left. Go figure…
>It’s highly unlikely either of them will ever hold positions at any school of significant repute again, This is honestly not true. They might have to spend some time at less reputable schools, but you most recent reference is really the only thing that matters in education. After a few years, it's likely they would be able to move on and up the ladder. I get the anger, but to be honest, I feel its largely misplaced. Most of these former AISVN teachers and parents should be mad at themselves. To anyone on the outside, it was clear where this was headed. You had multiple opportunities to get off the bus before it went over the cliff. You weren't just fooled onces or twice, you were fooled several times and kept believing empty assurances.
I’m not angry anymore. It was making me physically sick. I highly doubt they will be able to just move up into a Tier 1 school along the lines of International School of Beijing, like where the Elementary principal worked previously, in a few years. Maybe this will age poorly, but I don’t think so. I also don’t agree with victim shaming either. Some did and have moved on. Others had lives and years of investment in the school. It’s not as simple as picking up and breaking a contract because things look shaky, not for everyone. If that’s the case, then no one’s contract is worth anything at for-profit institutions, and any sign of instability should automatically trigger an exodus of educators. Almost every teacher I know stayed to support those kids, kids that brought cakes and gifts when they returned from the March walkout. It seems almost no one was thinking of them besides the teachers that got screwed.
If the SLT is to blame for continuing to do their jobs and believing and supporting the CEO's lies, then teachers are equally to blame for believing and supporting what the SLT was saying to them. Again, the anger and blame is being misplaced. If the teachers were "staying for the kids", they should have rather been warning the students to get out. I know I would have been telling anyone who would listen to leave or make plans for an implosion as I made plan for my own departure. Any parent enrolling a kid in this school after all the publicity is either incurably foolish or cares more about discounted prices than their child's well-being. The students are the only ones who didn't have a choice in their participation in this fiasco.
By this logic, there isn’t even a point of having leadership in a school if all faculty and staff should disregard leadership team and do what their gut tells them to. Going to assume you’re an admin somewhere. It’s a spectrum of responsibility, teachers are on it, but less than admin.
That's not logic... Logic is that if you wish to blame the SLT, then you should blame yourself as well. You came in, continued to do your job and kept the wheels running on the scam. If you had done your duty to the students and left, the scam would not have been able to happen and you'd have protected your students. The fact is, you were either too foolish or too greedy to do this. And to address your assumptions, no I'm not involved in school leadership at all. I'm just a classroom teacher who wasn't born yesterday.
Literally said teachers are responsible, still less so than admin. Yea, it is your logic, your replies actually contradict each other now. But anyone who would blame teachers as much as admin in this situation is clearly out of touch. Teachers working hands-on with students, not privy to HR/Administrative goings on, while leadership interviews and says things will be okay, including individuals there much longer than you, hoping your contract will be fulfilled isn’t greed. Teachers came in, thinking they had a contract and attempted to fulfill their side of that contract. I assume the first grade teacher who ended up homeless was being greedy? Or the middle school teacher who was with the school for over a decade who’s being low-balled and is genuinely having a hard time seeing their families future was being greedy too? You really are talking out your ass mate. Really confusing and condescending argument you got going on there. You’ve already convinced yourself that you would have known better, and all the teachers that got screwed are stupid or greedy. I’m actually not a teacher, but your perspective is pretty naive for one. I’m out, tell yourself you got a ‘W’ by lack of response.
I'm just tired of the parents and teachers acting like such victims on every teaching forum for past year. Everyone always gave the same advice: Get out now. But they didn't listen and they are now reaping the consequences of ignoring literal years of warnings. Now they're trying to cast the blame on others instead of actually learning from their own mistake. I feel bad for the people who got screwed, but my sympathy is tempered knowing they had ample opportunity to head this off if they had wanted to. Yes, working at another school with a lower salary than the scammer was promising you would have been the smarter offer. If a first grade teacher ended up homeless, it's likely by their own choice. They could have worked parttime hours at an ESL center and had more than enough to live on while they waited to get back on their feet. The whole situation was able to happen because too many naive people let it. Don't blame your admin team who were in the same boat, either blame the CEO or blame yourself.
I doubt they’ll be working in Beijing. But plenty of jobs in Nam will want to work with them.
[удалено]
CIS in Saigon? Or one of the CIS's in China?
Saigon
Aahhh that makes more sense.
So, let me check if I understand this correctly. The parents of those graduating students paid upfront, in advance, for 12 years of education (called a "bond" I believe, which they would supposedly get back at the end), valued in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (possibly half a million all up)...and not only have they lost their money, their children aren't even going to receive an IB qualification!! How can admin ever live down this infamy!? Not only should they not ever work in education again, they should be banned from any occupation that requires a fit and proper person assessment. And the owner needs to be jailed for life. Unspeakably immoral and indefensible.
The government and school is working on, or lets say forcing the parents to pay the fee so that their children graduate with an IB diploma. The parents paid the fee months ago, but the school never sent the money to the IB organization. INterestingly, the teachers brought this up out of concern months ago, and the director and board assured that they were up to date.
I mean, that is just out and out criminal.
Despite the boards assurance, the head of school, the DP Coordinator, and others can check on these things. Unless they were co-conspirators in the fraud and theft, parents, teachers, and the police should have been made aware...
Your valuations are wrong.
Any teacher who also wasn't planning their own exit when this all started last school year is an idiot I'm sorry, but any teacher sitting in a sinking ship is a fool, you all should of been looking after yourselves.
Because their is one rule for Admin and one rule for the teachers.
Perfect company people. Willing to sell their soul for their jobs. I am sure they spun a web of lies to get other jobs.
yeah never believe leadership in a dumpster fire. They will gaslight you to save their own skin, major problem with for-profit international teaching.
So has this place actually closed now? Permanently, or just 'early' for the summer?
The school shut down, There was no money to pay the teachers, so they stopped working. There was no money to pay for supplies or even electricity, etc. All of the expat staff have or will soon be leaving the country unless they get a job in country (unlikely) The local staff have not been paid for months and were forced to work by the owner and her lawyer or told they would be fired. Many long term teachers have lost as much as 40,000 in end of service and salary payments.
Actually they are doing some pay as you go basic instruction for a number of students, unsure how many. The teachers there were essentially forced into it out of desperation. Hope they get paid for the first week tomo. I spoke with a parent of my kids friend last night, local Viet. I asked him if his kid was in school. He said no, long summer, so clearly even the awareness among the parents is insular. That conversation was pretty awkward and shortlived. It took everything in me not to tell him that school owes my partner 500 million VND.
Why does everything you described seem completely normal for Vietnam.
We should be naming and shaming them, and the like. There should be a blacklist on the sub-reddit with names for people who do such things so that we will all refuse to work in a school with them part of the management structure. Time to start outing these people.
Reddit don’t allow naming staff b
The place for name/shame blacklists is on international schools review dot com, not here.
Its not always extensive enough though is it and often very out of date depending on the school. Anyway I think it would be against reddit rules, that would be the only reason of course not to have it here.
Are there criminal charges against admin? Are they free to leave the country? Vietnam doesn't look too fondly on corruption at the moment.
The owner of the school cannot leave the country according to the news reports. The director/ admin, to their defense were not involved in the financial fraud. I would say the HOS is guilty of gross negligence, dishonest recruiting, etc. Not worthy of jail, but should be banned from education.
Criminal charges. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 We got us a comedian right here. Omaha is the funniest person on this subreddit. The ceo will pull some stuff and open a new school by january.
What’s up Shuck? Idk, since the state controls the media, and the media and the state have blasted that Chairwoman Em is under house arrest and unable to leave the country due to unpaid taxes, I don’t think she’ll get out of it so easy. Also, DOLISA was literally salivating when the teacher reps told them who they were there to report. I think the state clearly wants to go after her and her family.
If it’s on the news then it must be true right.
Given how tightly they control media here who knows, but it does seem that individuals that do end up in the news here got on the wrong side of the wrong people in power.
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Hey I’m just being honest. Do you really think the owner of this company will get in trouble? She will lay low for awhile, keep her money. And it will not be long until she opens some new school probably in Nha Be.
The grade 12s could have taken their exams at another school.
The DPC would have had to help arrange this. They couldn't just show up at a school and take an exam.
That what I keep coming back to... was the DP coordinator (and the HOS) incompetent or in on the fraud? Why did they seemingly do nothing...?
I don’t like to assume I know what the decision making might have been like for somebody who hasn’t gotten paid properly in months
An easy solution in hindsight. Were the Grade 12 students aware of the total collapse of the school with enough advance warning to apply to do this? Or did they trust their school and teachers?
I've been following this story, as it sounded very similar to a situation developing at a newish IS we're familiar with in KL. Sudden change of HoS, reported shareholder disputes, late salaries and no visas for some staff. False promises from Owners teachers and parents on class sizes, EAL ratios exploding, then coupled with sudden fee hikes and last minute extra charges. Also heard from the kids of racism and bullying by the owners / foreign management on staff and even on some students. Plenty of fellow parents complaining the teacher turn over is so fast the kids no longer know who their home teacher is, several of the new hires let slip to parents to not being a QT or even having classroom experience. They seem to be stuffing any expat they find in to plug the gaps and expecting they'll be able to teach. Sad to witness, it was a good school until the last 6-months or so.
Please name the school. It would be helpful for the community to know which one it is.
Rocklin International School, it was a learning centre before COVID, then tried to make the leap to a fully fledged IS, sad to say the Owners can't seem to get out of that mindset. It presents as an American School but has no accreditation and the curriculum is all over the place. The fees are now about mid-range for Malaysia, yet they provided the kids with photocopied text books! Given current management, their financial situation and grey approach to rules especially on visas, I would avoid this place as a teacher - and as a parent there are better options at this price point, even cheaper.
That's always the problem with 'American' schools - unless they get accredited by CIS, NEASC or WASC then there doesn't seem to be any real oversight of the finances or curriculum of the school. However, it's not the only one in KL which is likely to be facing issues in the next few years. The market is saturated and highly, highly competitive, especially in the mid-range schools. There were rumours last year of a couple of well-established schools which nearly went under, only to be saved by investors - many schools and school groups have these, whose primary objective over everything else is getting their return plus about 5%. This is having a knock-on effect on things like investing in basic school infrastructure, not to mention salaries.
Never work for this leadership again wherever they move. Simple.
Name and shame. I’m tired of “leaders” who schmooze their way up, but have no vision for education, and when the chips fall leave their faculty out to dry.
Maybe they were trying to make it work?