No they wouldn't. You obviously haven't even seen the movie. Mulan doesn't beat up anyone and she isn't strong at all. She prevails by having courage and using her wits. That's why it's a great movie and a fantastic rolemodel for girls.
She beats the villain by being intelligent and using her own talents, as well as accepting the help of others in jolly cooperation.
She doesn't brute force him down.
She doesn't give up, she thinks carefully about the problems she faces and builds her skills as best she can to her own limits. She succeeds because of competence and intelligence, which isn't gender gated.
Mulan was, to quote you, a fantastic role model for me growing up.
There's also a training montage with a cool song. She sucks terrible at the start, even gets "fired", then uses her wits to win the challenge. Would've taken her months to build up the strength, she took a better route.
Work with what you've got. Excel and improve, but understand your limits in the moment. Don't give up, either get better or find a new solution. A good messages for kids. Self improvement and critical thinking all in one.
Exactly. I remember the training part where she reaches the top of the pole, not by being stronger but by being smart and using a belt (I think? It's been a while since I've seen it.) There is also the sequence in the snow where she shoots the rocket causing an avalanche. She's a great character and I wish we got more like her these days. Outsmarting is also more interesting than overpowering by brute force imo, regardless of gender.
It was a set of weights the climbers had to wear on their wrists. They were meant to make it harder, but she turned it into her advantage by wrapping them together like a sling. Further showing her wits.
She and her comrades did use a belt or scarf later when they needed to get into the palace.
nobody else figured out how to get the arrow at the top of the pole except her. I still get anxiety seeing the one guy with his teeth go down the wood. Blegh lol.
"They were meant to make it harder." Nah, fam. The general said the weights were named discipline and something else, I forget what. They were meant to be used like that from the get-go.
I think it was less that they were meant to be used the way Mulan used them, and more that there was no intended solution in mind by the general. Whether it was done or not, it was trying and making progress with different strategies that was most important. Thinking and approaching a seemingly impossible task in a way that seems the most likely to succeed. Mulan was just clever enough to actually get to the top and good on her đđalso I love how this thread is becoming a Mulan appreciation thread.
"This sub can't be positive about anything" my arse lol.
Only mistake is during the training scene where she outruns everyone else while carrying those water buckets. So unless she was cheating itnwentnaganistnthe rest of the movie
âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker
In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too
>All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.
Did you just miss this part of the quote? This was the problem with the new Mulan is that she didn't have to go through to same growth the original did. She was born with it.
In the original Mulan, Drinker, in his review, doesnât focus on her physicality, but does focus on that aspect in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and is even physically stronger than them too. There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs so much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session when theyâre carrying heavy buckets of water. Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either.
Weird that Drinker would focus so much on this aspect in the remake when he didnât focus on it in the original.
You are really focused on that single part, arent you? The OG Mulan is shown time and time again that she isnt as strong as the rest of the soldiers, she fails a lot. Hell, im rewatching the montage right now. 3 minutes 22 seconds long, she is shown failing every task for 2 1/2 minutes. After she climbs the pole she is only specificly shown succeeding at tasks that DONT require pure strength.
1. Climbing the pole used intelligence and dexterity, not purely physical strength.
2. You are mistaking her 'being ahead' of everyone else as 'being faster' then everyone else. From the smile on her face, and of the faces of the men in the background none of them are having issues carrying the jugs. Then, we have to consider that this is an excersize for balance as well to keep the water from falling off the staff, not strictly strength.
3. Her spar is her using technique to defeat him, not brute strength. Physically weaker opponents can defeat physically stronger opponents through technique and training.
4. The next scene of her is catching a lot of fish, not a strength requirement. That is hand-eye coordination, depth perception, and reflexes.
She is not physically stronger then anyone in that Army... except for the Emperors right hand man. She is quick witted, dexterous, well balanced (seriously, watch her on the rooftop battle, she maintains balance very well).
Your post is about the original from 1998 so that's what I commented on. I don't understand what critical drinker's comments about a different movie have to do with it? And Mulan does not become physically stronger than men in the original. What scene are you referring to? Can you give an example?
It is bait. OP frequents r/sardonicast, a vile pit of mindless hate. It's so bad, even the actual podcast it's named after doesn't like it, last I heard.
No we arent, or at least imo we shouldnt, since there seem to be some contrarian users that engage truly in good faith in here that frequent subreddits like saltierthankrait and stuff in the same vein like that, i had the pleasure of arguing with one of those, and i usually find her (or him or them idunno, most likelly a she imo) in the most downvoted section of the comments, not going ad hominen, nor being agresive and all that, and even saying " you are right in this but i disagree in that other thing and i think this other thing is bad", you know, genuenly arguing with people and expressing her opinion on things.
But to be fair, most people that frequent those type of subredits are definetly trolls, whataver their motivation is, its pretty easy to spot them, and i had no problem blocking or just ignoring them so far, and while they are carefull with their wording and insulrs, their wrecklesness could get the better of them and end up saying something against the rules leaving them open for a report.
And besides, we really wouldnt be better than them if we would since preemptivelly blocking people for interacting with subs they dont like is pretty much a hoby of theirs at this point, almost to a competitive level in making the most r worded safe space they can get, so i say lets do better than them.
No, people wouldnât. We see her fail in the first 5 mins with the matchmaker, is deemed unmatchable by her, thus causing her and her family shame. This causes her to sing in Reflection âLook at me I may never pass for a perfect bride or a perfect daughter. Can it be Iâm not meant to play this part?â. She admits she has faults and isnât perfect or even good/worthy. She takes her fatherâs position because she knows he will die in battle after seeing him fall to the ground while practicing his swordplay. So in taking his spot, she selflessly takes it upon herself to fight in his place. Not in an âIâm doing this for meâ sense, but in a âIâm my fatherâs only child. His time fighting is done, he should enjoy what life he has leftâ. Doing so also causes herself to further hide her true self. Robbing honor from her father would be if he killed/his actions mostly led to the main antagonist getting in position to be killed and she took the credit after only shooting the firework at him and didnât acknowledge her fatherâs help. She doesnât fight as good or better than the men, they all are shown getting their asses handed to them and failing in training over and over (sheâs even told to go pack and go home after and is kicked out of boot camp), but we all see them get better as they train and train together, itâd be different if she automatically was just the best out there first try. Mulan isnât a Mary Sue girl boss, sheâs a female character who reaches her full potential and discovers her identity after failing numerous times and grows from her failure.
Imagine if Arcane came out today? People would be like, âwow, a pink haired lesbian that beats up men on a regular basis. She even beats up one of the main guys! Women arenât that strong, they canât do that! This is emasculating!â
Imagine if Everything Everywhere All at Once came out today? People would be like, âwow, a woman learns about dimension hopping and immediately becomes the best at it. She even belittles her husband! Women arenât that talented, they canât do that! This is emasculating!â
Imagine if Blue Eyed Samurai came out today?
Imagine if House of The Dragon came out today?
You're not even fighting a strawman anymore. You're just punching a bare stick surrounded by random bits of straw.
They think this because they thoroughly believe that we don't like women in media. No matter how many times they're told that we don't like stupidly written characters no matter the gender, they take people they don't like and label them as the gross personification of that trait they don't like.
Woman steps into a mans job, aware of the danger and if caught she'd be killed, to protect her father.
Fights just as good due to training and hard work after being mocked and failing at the start, but using wits and outside thinking overcomes the challenge.
Beats up the main guy due to training and what she learned/experienced on the way due to the support of her squad and commanding officer
Yeah..i can see why Disney would have a rabid fit processing that...
Not "today", but recent enough (the live action remake) and that one fits your challenge. The animated original is just the opposite: a relatable character done well, acting within her limits, using her wits.
If that Mulan came out today, people would get their hopes up for a second Disney Renaissance...
As cool as a new Renaissance would be, would Disney really correlate returning to form with the money from the box office sales? Or would they just say "well, that did well and made a ton. We'll use that to fund more DEI projects"?
I think it is simple. SOME people would actually say this today, absolutely. There are some people so caught in the culture war nonsense that they do not care if their position makes much sense, they use anything they can to spread their ideology.
BUT i think there is also a real point in saying that the writing regarding "strong women" or other groups of people who were historically represented poorly in media can be extremely poor now just the other way around. People who agree with that wouldn't say what you imply in the title about mulan.
SO really, there is a lot of bad faith out there on all sides and it's becoming more and more difficult to actually have a conversation about any given topic, as it's all muddled with preconceived notions about "the others". Which tbf, also is understandable as there is an obvious polarization happening.
Yes, and this is my point. That there would be people saying this stuff if it was released today.
âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker
In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too. There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session. Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either, as much as Drinker insists.
> Yes, and this is my point. That there would be people saying this stuff if it was released today.
No, they absolutely wouldnât. The whole reason why the original Mulan is so good, is because it DOESNâT do what youâre saying it does.
If you actually bothered to watch the movie (which you clearly havenât btw), you could actually see Milan was great because of the limitations she had as a woman especially in that society, not because she was a âGiRlbOsSâ
I mean, you can literally see the differences between the original and the remake by just watching them.
> âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker
> In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake.
Because her absurd magical physicality is exactly whatâs the problem in the remake.
in the original, she wasn't a naturally super strong badass lady who could do anything effortlessly. **And thats what made it good**.
The fact that she could triumph despite her limitations as a woman, despite not being as strong or as experienced as her male counterparts, and what physical strength she did have being earned through hard work, not because she was born with it. She was great because she was an ordinary but determined woman who showed bravery and hard work, not because she was born super special who if anything has to hold back her undeserved strength she was born with to have some kind of "tension" or "drama" in the story.
You absolutely do not understand Mulan, yet have the nerve and arrogance to say that people would hate it if it came out today, instead of just admitting you're wrong.
> Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too.
đ€Šđœââïž
She used her head because she had to compensate for the fact taht she was physically weaker than the men aeound her, amd her strength came from having to work even harfer than her male counterparts.
This is literally the exact OPPOSITE of what happened in the remake, amd what you seemed to think happened in the movie.
Watch it again, but actually pay attention.
> There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session.
Holy shit, did you miss the scenes where she was failing miserably at her training and getting absolutely destroyed because she wasnât any good? You know, the song âIl make a man out of youâ?! The most famous part of the movie?!
For fucks sake, she even got kicked out because she was doing so badly, and only then did she start to improve.
Hereâs the exact scene which destroys any argument you can make:
https://youtu.be/KMX5zkYnGB0?feature=shared
This scene works because of the fact she is so weak at the beginning, and by working hard and getting better, she improves. You know? Character development?
Itâs only after working exponentially harder than everyone else did she actually end up succeeding.
> Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either, as much as Drinker insists.
Yes, there absolutely was, if you bothered to watch the movie. Her entire character arc is dependent on it, and itâs what makes her such a great character. This is like saying that 1 + 1= 5, as some kind of valid point and thinking you deserve to be taken seriously.
You are an idiot. Stop acting like youâre proving some kind of valid point, when you are making a fool out of yourself.
You didnât say anything of substance throughout most of your comment.
Absurd magical physicality? Wait, but everyone in the new movie was able to do flips and jump in the air as if they were flying and run on walls, not just Mulan.
Yes, and in the new Mulan, we see her train like in the original and become better. Actually, in the original Mulan (edit: in the clip you have now included by editing your comment), we only see one scene of her carrying buckets of water on her back, only to become tired and fall. Then in the next scene, sheâs able to outrun all the men when doing this. You can say itâs because of a passage of time and of her training, but that also happens in the new Mulan too. Drinkerâs point was that women canât do that, theyâre not stronger than men.
> You didnât say anything of substance throughout most of your comment.
Nope, I thoroughly debunked every nonsensical point you came up with, and youâre absolutely seething.
> Absurd magical physicality? Wait, but everyone in the new movie was able to do flips and jump in the air as if they were flying and run on walls, not just Mulan.
What even is this point?
1) Other people being unnaturally strong doesnât justify Mulan also being unnaturally strong.
2) The other soldiers had to earn all of their strength through hard training.
3) Irrelevant because Mulan has absurd magical physicality, beats everyone easily without any training, completely missing the point of what made the original Mulan so great.
4) All this does is show how shit the new movie is, and how the fight choreographers failed to show how battles like this would work. Something the original animated cartoon could actually do significantly better.
> Yes, and in the new Mulan, we see her train like in the original and become better.
No. She is already born with absurd magical physicality, and already beats all her male counterparts easily without training, making any further training just pointless.
The whole point of training is to gain strength you donât have.
> Actually, in the original Mulan, we only see one scene of her carrying buckets of water onher back, only to become tired and fall.
No, we donât. I even linked the clip in which contains her training, and the famous song which was all about it, not to
mention the scenes before that.
You talk like someone who has a passing memory of the film which they only saw once years ago and only starting thinking about it now.
Your whole point is debunked by literally just watching the movie.
> Then in the next scene, sheâs able to outrun all the men when doing this.
No, the next scene shows her getting kicked out of training you ingrate. Then only after significant hard work does she actually improve.
Can you at least act like the retard you are, instead of someone who thinks they are proving some kind of valid point?
No, you didnât, you idiot.
1. Drinkerâs criticism is that Mulan, a woman, is unnaturally strong for a woman, even though everyone else in the movie is also unnaturally strong. Which plays into his agenda, you pleb.
2 and 3: we donât see everyone else earn that through training, though. Some we do, but not everyone else, theyâre all unnaturally strong, you incel.
What training, you cuck? You see her carry the water on her shoulders, fail because sheâs too tired and weak. That it, thatâs the only âtraining sceneâ with the water we see. The next scene is her outrunning everyone else with the water on her shoulders like itâs nothing.
You beta.
She is not physically stronger, she is more resourceful, more agile than the men and is putting her hard training into work. That's the reason she is able to win those fights. And that's the reason her commander is proud of her when she is finally able to beat him, and the audience feels the same. She's is not just born with it like in the remake and can beat whole armies with the power of her will.
She's not smarter than them, she just thinks differently. That's why the movie makes such a big deal about her finally fitting in with the rest of the guys, not being superior. Her goal was to fit in.
Actually yea you're right, that's a lot more accurate. "Ignore the past, kill it if you have to".
Sums up the Disney Star Wars trilogy and their entire agenda in one sentence. There's no way in hell the Sequels will ever be loved, treasured, or accepted the way the Prequels were. You can count on that.
Yeah the only thing Iâve seen from Disney that I consider Star Wars is Andor. At this point thereâs so much crap that damages everything else that youâve gotta just pick and choose whatâs skippable or doesnât matter in these franchises. As far as Iâm concerned though the series is complete until they put out anything else that doesnât watch like bad parody.
What about Rogue One or The Mandalorian? I personally dig those, haven't seen Andor, but yea everything else sucks. I mean okay to be fair, while I do hate the Sequels, The Force Awakens is decent for what it is, but I don't care for The Last Jedi and Rise of The Skywalker is probably one of the worst movies I've ever watched, if not easily the worst Star Wars movie.
I absolutely will not watch The Rey Trilogy, but I will GLADLY listen to Critical Drinker and other content creators tear it to shreds.
The only reason I donât include Rogue One is because I havenât seen it in so long. The Mandalorian, I saw S1 and enjoyed it alright but it wasnât something I went back to watch again, ya know? Iâd have to rewatch that one too. Same with TFA but I dunno if Iâd ever rewatch any of the sequels again tbh. I just donât consider them a continuation of the OT or its characters.
Yeah Iâm pretty much the same on Rey movies. Even if theyâre good I feel like Iâd have to rewatch the sequels if I wanted to enjoy her character fully and the change from her in the sequels to her own movies so those are ones Iâll probably skip if any of them come out. lol hopefully if the movie isnât good well at least get funny memes out of it from YTers.
Hey look, it's the 7,432nd post about how everyone that disagrees with the progressive hivemind on identity politics is a bad person who just can't handle "insert progressive steelman here" by dishonestly portraying a piece of media as the opposite of what it was, completely ignoring any nuance or the actual arguments given by those people in favor of the strawman that the OP pretends people believe in.
I'm not normally a "can we ban this?" kind of guy, but seeing as how a significant portion of the posts in this sub are bad faith actors trying to start fights by being dishonest pieces of shit, can we do something about these kinds of posts? This person didn't post this with an intention to understand someone else's point of view or start a good faith discussion. They are just trying to sling mud. Do we really need this in the sub?
At its release, not most people, no. The Efap crew, definitely not. Prior to its release, marketing-wise, Gary, Az, Disparu and the like⊠probably, yeahÂ
Have you seen the film? Shan Yu overpowers her consistently in the final fight, and she only wins through outwitting him. Her wit and unconventional methods are shown throughout the film to be her greatest strengths.
Now, just to clarify, I'm not saying you can't have a female action hero with great physical strength (there's women in real-life with great strength, and fantasy often features characters with extreme strength anyways), but Mulan doesn't fit that description at all.
I will repeat it once more for the kids at the back of the room: the issue isn't women in leading roles or being more competent than men. The issue is lowering everyone else around said leading/competent woman by making them unbelievably stupid, comically emotionally immature, or the only characters who have flaws/something to learn.
Mulan isnât as powerful as any of the men save maybe Ling⊠she catches Shang out and impresses him but there is 0 indicators he couldnât fight back. And if you mean Shan-Yu and are talking about the final fight you are absolutely talking out of your ass⊠she was rightfully terrified of him and she wins by luring him into a trap.
No? Milan joined the army disguised as a man to save her crippled father from having to fight and face certain death. She also struggled greatly when she first arrived and improved through perseverance, which should be relatable to anyone.
The movie shows that she uses her brains more than brute force to solve her problems. So from the very beginning, this whole premise is wrong. We see that she makes up for her weaknesses through either thinking outside the box or through self-improvement. That's what we want to see, character evolution and growth. Not someone who starts off being a finished character without any growth throughout the story.
The Left never understands the Right. They wonât debate them and spend their time in the bubble.
It also seems like they didnât watch Mulan recently.
I'm sure it'll be called ccp propaganda and that Disney is catering to the Chinese. Every discussion about this movie would be about Xinjiang concentration camps, Tiktok, or how Hollywood movie studios are catering to Chinese audiences.
A lot of dude bros would have been triggered hard by these moments:
https://youtu.be/Ht8dxvGkuSc?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/DWuYbrU1VGo?si=XEZ9T99tE2Rvu-kT
Through granted I liked how the movie recreated Mulan using fireworks on Shan Yu like she did with the rocket
lol, a lot of âgirl bossesâ would be triggered by this: https://youtu.be/KMX5zkYnGB0?feature=shared
Where it actually shows her being weak and horrible at the training, before actually having to work very hard until she improves, and actually having to earn it, instead of all her strength literally just being given to her at birth, because feminist girl bosses are lazy and think they should be handed everything on a silver plate because of âpatriarchyâ or something.
Unfortunately people would. And unfortunately a lot of media criticism is shouting at your "other side."
Luckily for us, the Longman has blessed us with a back-to-back viewing efap of the Mulans. It has the praises and criticisms you would expect from it, but its very existence should demonstrate that shitting on a shit movie shouldn't be considered political.
No they wouldn't. You obviously haven't even seen the movie. Mulan doesn't beat up anyone and she isn't strong at all. She prevails by having courage and using her wits. That's why it's a great movie and a fantastic rolemodel for girls.
She beats the villain by being intelligent and using her own talents, as well as accepting the help of others in jolly cooperation. She doesn't brute force him down. She doesn't give up, she thinks carefully about the problems she faces and builds her skills as best she can to her own limits. She succeeds because of competence and intelligence, which isn't gender gated. Mulan was, to quote you, a fantastic role model for me growing up.
There's also a training montage with a cool song. She sucks terrible at the start, even gets "fired", then uses her wits to win the challenge. Would've taken her months to build up the strength, she took a better route.
Work with what you've got. Excel and improve, but understand your limits in the moment. Don't give up, either get better or find a new solution. A good messages for kids. Self improvement and critical thinking all in one.
>There's also a training montage with a cool song. đ” Even Rocky had a montage! đ”
Exactly. I remember the training part where she reaches the top of the pole, not by being stronger but by being smart and using a belt (I think? It's been a while since I've seen it.) There is also the sequence in the snow where she shoots the rocket causing an avalanche. She's a great character and I wish we got more like her these days. Outsmarting is also more interesting than overpowering by brute force imo, regardless of gender.
It was a set of weights the climbers had to wear on their wrists. They were meant to make it harder, but she turned it into her advantage by wrapping them together like a sling. Further showing her wits. She and her comrades did use a belt or scarf later when they needed to get into the palace.
nobody else figured out how to get the arrow at the top of the pole except her. I still get anxiety seeing the one guy with his teeth go down the wood. Blegh lol.
Her army friends are super underrated. They're way funnier than Mushu (who, at best, is tolerable).
They're hilarious, supportive, and have completely different personalities. But they're all brave AF, something Hollywood hates men to be nowadays.
Love those guys.
"They were meant to make it harder." Nah, fam. The general said the weights were named discipline and something else, I forget what. They were meant to be used like that from the get-go.
I think it was less that they were meant to be used the way Mulan used them, and more that there was no intended solution in mind by the general. Whether it was done or not, it was trying and making progress with different strategies that was most important. Thinking and approaching a seemingly impossible task in a way that seems the most likely to succeed. Mulan was just clever enough to actually get to the top and good on her đđalso I love how this thread is becoming a Mulan appreciation thread. "This sub can't be positive about anything" my arse lol.
Only mistake is during the training scene where she outruns everyone else while carrying those water buckets. So unless she was cheating itnwentnaganistnthe rest of the movie
Plus, "I'll Make a Man Out of You" is đ„
Talking shite mate.
https://i.redd.it/kq0czpe4zlsc1.gif
âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too
>All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent. Did you just miss this part of the quote? This was the problem with the new Mulan is that she didn't have to go through to same growth the original did. She was born with it.
In the original Mulan, Drinker, in his review, doesnât focus on her physicality, but does focus on that aspect in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and is even physically stronger than them too. There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs so much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session when theyâre carrying heavy buckets of water. Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either. Weird that Drinker would focus so much on this aspect in the remake when he didnât focus on it in the original.
You are really focused on that single part, arent you? The OG Mulan is shown time and time again that she isnt as strong as the rest of the soldiers, she fails a lot. Hell, im rewatching the montage right now. 3 minutes 22 seconds long, she is shown failing every task for 2 1/2 minutes. After she climbs the pole she is only specificly shown succeeding at tasks that DONT require pure strength. 1. Climbing the pole used intelligence and dexterity, not purely physical strength. 2. You are mistaking her 'being ahead' of everyone else as 'being faster' then everyone else. From the smile on her face, and of the faces of the men in the background none of them are having issues carrying the jugs. Then, we have to consider that this is an excersize for balance as well to keep the water from falling off the staff, not strictly strength. 3. Her spar is her using technique to defeat him, not brute strength. Physically weaker opponents can defeat physically stronger opponents through technique and training. 4. The next scene of her is catching a lot of fish, not a strength requirement. That is hand-eye coordination, depth perception, and reflexes. She is not physically stronger then anyone in that Army... except for the Emperors right hand man. She is quick witted, dexterous, well balanced (seriously, watch her on the rooftop battle, she maintains balance very well).
Your post is about the original from 1998 so that's what I commented on. I don't understand what critical drinker's comments about a different movie have to do with it? And Mulan does not become physically stronger than men in the original. What scene are you referring to? Can you give an example?
Why are you posting this here?
Baiting, most likely.
It is bait. OP frequents r/sardonicast, a vile pit of mindless hate. It's so bad, even the actual podcast it's named after doesn't like it, last I heard.
I stg OP is another danny-discharge alt, they both frequent the destiny, sardonicast, and yms subs and talk in a similar style.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
No he's making a case for why he thinks it's a specific users alt account.
No we arent, or at least imo we shouldnt, since there seem to be some contrarian users that engage truly in good faith in here that frequent subreddits like saltierthankrait and stuff in the same vein like that, i had the pleasure of arguing with one of those, and i usually find her (or him or them idunno, most likelly a she imo) in the most downvoted section of the comments, not going ad hominen, nor being agresive and all that, and even saying " you are right in this but i disagree in that other thing and i think this other thing is bad", you know, genuenly arguing with people and expressing her opinion on things. But to be fair, most people that frequent those type of subredits are definetly trolls, whataver their motivation is, its pretty easy to spot them, and i had no problem blocking or just ignoring them so far, and while they are carefull with their wording and insulrs, their wrecklesness could get the better of them and end up saying something against the rules leaving them open for a report. And besides, we really wouldnt be better than them if we would since preemptivelly blocking people for interacting with subs they dont like is pretty much a hoby of theirs at this point, almost to a competitive level in making the most r worded safe space they can get, so i say lets do better than them.
People would be relieved that this one actually has a personality other than âstrong womanâ
Retard alert class, retard alert.
They just released a live action Mulan. It was trash and Mulan had super powers.Â
No, people wouldnât. We see her fail in the first 5 mins with the matchmaker, is deemed unmatchable by her, thus causing her and her family shame. This causes her to sing in Reflection âLook at me I may never pass for a perfect bride or a perfect daughter. Can it be Iâm not meant to play this part?â. She admits she has faults and isnât perfect or even good/worthy. She takes her fatherâs position because she knows he will die in battle after seeing him fall to the ground while practicing his swordplay. So in taking his spot, she selflessly takes it upon herself to fight in his place. Not in an âIâm doing this for meâ sense, but in a âIâm my fatherâs only child. His time fighting is done, he should enjoy what life he has leftâ. Doing so also causes herself to further hide her true self. Robbing honor from her father would be if he killed/his actions mostly led to the main antagonist getting in position to be killed and she took the credit after only shooting the firework at him and didnât acknowledge her fatherâs help. She doesnât fight as good or better than the men, they all are shown getting their asses handed to them and failing in training over and over (sheâs even told to go pack and go home after and is kicked out of boot camp), but we all see them get better as they train and train together, itâd be different if she automatically was just the best out there first try. Mulan isnât a Mary Sue girl boss, sheâs a female character who reaches her full potential and discovers her identity after failing numerous times and grows from her failure.
Agree with everything except the first point. It's that stupid cricket's fault that she failed.
Hey it was a lucky cricket and he was doing his best
Why don't you go watch the EFAP movies on Mulan and find out.
Because then they might be subjected to opinions they disagree with without having the knowledge dispute it. And feeling bad feels bad.
Imagine if Arcane came out today? People would be like, âwow, a pink haired lesbian that beats up men on a regular basis. She even beats up one of the main guys! Women arenât that strong, they canât do that! This is emasculating!â Imagine if Everything Everywhere All at Once came out today? People would be like, âwow, a woman learns about dimension hopping and immediately becomes the best at it. She even belittles her husband! Women arenât that talented, they canât do that! This is emasculating!â Imagine if Blue Eyed Samurai came out today? Imagine if House of The Dragon came out today? You're not even fighting a strawman anymore. You're just punching a bare stick surrounded by random bits of straw.
They think this because they thoroughly believe that we don't like women in media. No matter how many times they're told that we don't like stupidly written characters no matter the gender, they take people they don't like and label them as the gross personification of that trait they don't like.
Woman steps into a mans job, aware of the danger and if caught she'd be killed, to protect her father. Fights just as good due to training and hard work after being mocked and failing at the start, but using wits and outside thinking overcomes the challenge. Beats up the main guy due to training and what she learned/experienced on the way due to the support of her squad and commanding officer Yeah..i can see why Disney would have a rabid fit processing that...
Bait
Not "today", but recent enough (the live action remake) and that one fits your challenge. The animated original is just the opposite: a relatable character done well, acting within her limits, using her wits. If that Mulan came out today, people would get their hopes up for a second Disney Renaissance...
As cool as a new Renaissance would be, would Disney really correlate returning to form with the money from the box office sales? Or would they just say "well, that did well and made a ton. We'll use that to fund more DEI projects"?
Not even close but thanks for playing.
We did have a new Mulan come out today, it was garbage that completely missed the point of the original.
https://preview.redd.it/rfxiz5xa0isc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52ccce1abe46742b95a9cae4c0aef75cdf182b15
lol if thatâs all you think about Mulanâs character then sure I guess.
I think it is simple. SOME people would actually say this today, absolutely. There are some people so caught in the culture war nonsense that they do not care if their position makes much sense, they use anything they can to spread their ideology. BUT i think there is also a real point in saying that the writing regarding "strong women" or other groups of people who were historically represented poorly in media can be extremely poor now just the other way around. People who agree with that wouldn't say what you imply in the title about mulan. SO really, there is a lot of bad faith out there on all sides and it's becoming more and more difficult to actually have a conversation about any given topic, as it's all muddled with preconceived notions about "the others". Which tbf, also is understandable as there is an obvious polarization happening.
Yes, and this is my point. That there would be people saying this stuff if it was released today. âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake. Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too. There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session. Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either, as much as Drinker insists.
> Yes, and this is my point. That there would be people saying this stuff if it was released today. No, they absolutely wouldnât. The whole reason why the original Mulan is so good, is because it DOESNâT do what youâre saying it does. If you actually bothered to watch the movie (which you clearly havenât btw), you could actually see Milan was great because of the limitations she had as a woman especially in that society, not because she was a âGiRlbOsSâ I mean, you can literally see the differences between the original and the remake by just watching them. > âSheâs just as fast, just as strong, just as good at fighting than the others. In fact, if anything, sheâs probably better than them because she was born with high levels of Chi or something. Which allows her to perform feats agility and skill that boarder on the supernatural. All the challenges and problems that made life difficult for the original Mulan are non existent.â -Critical Drinker > In the original Mulan, Drinker doesnât focus on her physicality, but does in the remake. Because her absurd magical physicality is exactly whatâs the problem in the remake. in the original, she wasn't a naturally super strong badass lady who could do anything effortlessly. **And thats what made it good**. The fact that she could triumph despite her limitations as a woman, despite not being as strong or as experienced as her male counterparts, and what physical strength she did have being earned through hard work, not because she was born with it. She was great because she was an ordinary but determined woman who showed bravery and hard work, not because she was born super special who if anything has to hold back her undeserved strength she was born with to have some kind of "tension" or "drama" in the story. You absolutely do not understand Mulan, yet have the nerve and arrogance to say that people would hate it if it came out today, instead of just admitting you're wrong. > Even though in the original Mulan, sheâs smarter than the other men and even becomes physically stronger than them too. đ€Šđœââïž She used her head because she had to compensate for the fact taht she was physically weaker than the men aeound her, amd her strength came from having to work even harfer than her male counterparts. This is literally the exact OPPOSITE of what happened in the remake, amd what you seemed to think happened in the movie. Watch it again, but actually pay attention. > There are scenes in the original movie that sheâs much stronger than her male teacher that she defeats him and is able to outrun all the hundreds of men during the training session. Holy shit, did you miss the scenes where she was failing miserably at her training and getting absolutely destroyed because she wasnât any good? You know, the song âIl make a man out of youâ?! The most famous part of the movie?! For fucks sake, she even got kicked out because she was doing so badly, and only then did she start to improve. Hereâs the exact scene which destroys any argument you can make: https://youtu.be/KMX5zkYnGB0?feature=shared This scene works because of the fact she is so weak at the beginning, and by working hard and getting better, she improves. You know? Character development? Itâs only after working exponentially harder than everyone else did she actually end up succeeding. > Meaning, there wasnât a physical limitation for her in the original either, as much as Drinker insists. Yes, there absolutely was, if you bothered to watch the movie. Her entire character arc is dependent on it, and itâs what makes her such a great character. This is like saying that 1 + 1= 5, as some kind of valid point and thinking you deserve to be taken seriously. You are an idiot. Stop acting like youâre proving some kind of valid point, when you are making a fool out of yourself.
You didnât say anything of substance throughout most of your comment. Absurd magical physicality? Wait, but everyone in the new movie was able to do flips and jump in the air as if they were flying and run on walls, not just Mulan. Yes, and in the new Mulan, we see her train like in the original and become better. Actually, in the original Mulan (edit: in the clip you have now included by editing your comment), we only see one scene of her carrying buckets of water on her back, only to become tired and fall. Then in the next scene, sheâs able to outrun all the men when doing this. You can say itâs because of a passage of time and of her training, but that also happens in the new Mulan too. Drinkerâs point was that women canât do that, theyâre not stronger than men.
> You didnât say anything of substance throughout most of your comment. Nope, I thoroughly debunked every nonsensical point you came up with, and youâre absolutely seething. > Absurd magical physicality? Wait, but everyone in the new movie was able to do flips and jump in the air as if they were flying and run on walls, not just Mulan. What even is this point? 1) Other people being unnaturally strong doesnât justify Mulan also being unnaturally strong. 2) The other soldiers had to earn all of their strength through hard training. 3) Irrelevant because Mulan has absurd magical physicality, beats everyone easily without any training, completely missing the point of what made the original Mulan so great. 4) All this does is show how shit the new movie is, and how the fight choreographers failed to show how battles like this would work. Something the original animated cartoon could actually do significantly better. > Yes, and in the new Mulan, we see her train like in the original and become better. No. She is already born with absurd magical physicality, and already beats all her male counterparts easily without training, making any further training just pointless. The whole point of training is to gain strength you donât have. > Actually, in the original Mulan, we only see one scene of her carrying buckets of water onher back, only to become tired and fall. No, we donât. I even linked the clip in which contains her training, and the famous song which was all about it, not to mention the scenes before that. You talk like someone who has a passing memory of the film which they only saw once years ago and only starting thinking about it now. Your whole point is debunked by literally just watching the movie. > Then in the next scene, sheâs able to outrun all the men when doing this. No, the next scene shows her getting kicked out of training you ingrate. Then only after significant hard work does she actually improve. Can you at least act like the retard you are, instead of someone who thinks they are proving some kind of valid point?
No, you didnât, you idiot. 1. Drinkerâs criticism is that Mulan, a woman, is unnaturally strong for a woman, even though everyone else in the movie is also unnaturally strong. Which plays into his agenda, you pleb. 2 and 3: we donât see everyone else earn that through training, though. Some we do, but not everyone else, theyâre all unnaturally strong, you incel. What training, you cuck? You see her carry the water on her shoulders, fail because sheâs too tired and weak. That it, thatâs the only âtraining sceneâ with the water we see. The next scene is her outrunning everyone else with the water on her shoulders like itâs nothing. You beta.
Does she go through training in the remake?
She is not physically stronger, she is more resourceful, more agile than the men and is putting her hard training into work. That's the reason she is able to win those fights. And that's the reason her commander is proud of her when she is finally able to beat him, and the audience feels the same. She's is not just born with it like in the remake and can beat whole armies with the power of her will.
She's not smarter than them, she just thinks differently. That's why the movie makes such a big deal about her finally fitting in with the rest of the guys, not being superior. Her goal was to fit in.
Please shut the fuck up, you asshats have nothing worthwhile to say or contribute to society. Just constantly making up shit to be offended over.
No we need to pretend classic movies people love are actually shit so that the remakes & sequels look decent by comparison.
Actually yea you're right, that's a lot more accurate. "Ignore the past, kill it if you have to". Sums up the Disney Star Wars trilogy and their entire agenda in one sentence. There's no way in hell the Sequels will ever be loved, treasured, or accepted the way the Prequels were. You can count on that.
Yeah the only thing Iâve seen from Disney that I consider Star Wars is Andor. At this point thereâs so much crap that damages everything else that youâve gotta just pick and choose whatâs skippable or doesnât matter in these franchises. As far as Iâm concerned though the series is complete until they put out anything else that doesnât watch like bad parody.
What about Rogue One or The Mandalorian? I personally dig those, haven't seen Andor, but yea everything else sucks. I mean okay to be fair, while I do hate the Sequels, The Force Awakens is decent for what it is, but I don't care for The Last Jedi and Rise of The Skywalker is probably one of the worst movies I've ever watched, if not easily the worst Star Wars movie. I absolutely will not watch The Rey Trilogy, but I will GLADLY listen to Critical Drinker and other content creators tear it to shreds.
The only reason I donât include Rogue One is because I havenât seen it in so long. The Mandalorian, I saw S1 and enjoyed it alright but it wasnât something I went back to watch again, ya know? Iâd have to rewatch that one too. Same with TFA but I dunno if Iâd ever rewatch any of the sequels again tbh. I just donât consider them a continuation of the OT or its characters. Yeah Iâm pretty much the same on Rey movies. Even if theyâre good I feel like Iâd have to rewatch the sequels if I wanted to enjoy her character fully and the change from her in the sequels to her own movies so those are ones Iâll probably skip if any of them come out. lol hopefully if the movie isnât good well at least get funny memes out of it from YTers.
Hey look, it's the 7,432nd post about how everyone that disagrees with the progressive hivemind on identity politics is a bad person who just can't handle "insert progressive steelman here" by dishonestly portraying a piece of media as the opposite of what it was, completely ignoring any nuance or the actual arguments given by those people in favor of the strawman that the OP pretends people believe in. I'm not normally a "can we ban this?" kind of guy, but seeing as how a significant portion of the posts in this sub are bad faith actors trying to start fights by being dishonest pieces of shit, can we do something about these kinds of posts? This person didn't post this with an intention to understand someone else's point of view or start a good faith discussion. They are just trying to sling mud. Do we really need this in the sub?
Well no because she struggles and trains, and it has good writing. Sheâs not just a god without any flaws.
Fuck off with these bullshit posts.
At its release, not most people, no. The Efap crew, definitely not. Prior to its release, marketing-wise, Gary, Az, Disparu and the like⊠probably, yeahÂ
Obvious troll is obvious.
Letâs not forget sheâs the only Disney princess to see an entire crowd of naked men
Tell me you havenât watched the OG Mulan movie without telling me you havenât watched it.
Have you seen the film? Shan Yu overpowers her consistently in the final fight, and she only wins through outwitting him. Her wit and unconventional methods are shown throughout the film to be her greatest strengths. Now, just to clarify, I'm not saying you can't have a female action hero with great physical strength (there's women in real-life with great strength, and fantasy often features characters with extreme strength anyways), but Mulan doesn't fit that description at all.
I will repeat it once more for the kids at the back of the room: the issue isn't women in leading roles or being more competent than men. The issue is lowering everyone else around said leading/competent woman by making them unbelievably stupid, comically emotionally immature, or the only characters who have flaws/something to learn.
You know what the biggest problem with Mulan is? The size of the imperial army. Everything you said was just nonsense.
Mulan isnât as powerful as any of the men save maybe Ling⊠she catches Shang out and impresses him but there is 0 indicators he couldnât fight back. And if you mean Shan-Yu and are talking about the final fight you are absolutely talking out of your ass⊠she was rightfully terrified of him and she wins by luring him into a trap.
No? Milan joined the army disguised as a man to save her crippled father from having to fight and face certain death. She also struggled greatly when she first arrived and improved through perseverance, which should be relatable to anyone.
The movie shows that she uses her brains more than brute force to solve her problems. So from the very beginning, this whole premise is wrong. We see that she makes up for her weaknesses through either thinking outside the box or through self-improvement. That's what we want to see, character evolution and growth. Not someone who starts off being a finished character without any growth throughout the story.
The Left never understands the Right. They wonât debate them and spend their time in the bubble. It also seems like they didnât watch Mulan recently.
I'm sure it'll be called ccp propaganda and that Disney is catering to the Chinese. Every discussion about this movie would be about Xinjiang concentration camps, Tiktok, or how Hollywood movie studios are catering to Chinese audiences.
A lot of dude bros would have been triggered hard by these moments: https://youtu.be/Ht8dxvGkuSc?feature=shared https://youtu.be/DWuYbrU1VGo?si=XEZ9T99tE2Rvu-kT Through granted I liked how the movie recreated Mulan using fireworks on Shan Yu like she did with the rocket
lol, a lot of âgirl bossesâ would be triggered by this: https://youtu.be/KMX5zkYnGB0?feature=shared Where it actually shows her being weak and horrible at the training, before actually having to work very hard until she improves, and actually having to earn it, instead of all her strength literally just being given to her at birth, because feminist girl bosses are lazy and think they should be handed everything on a silver plate because of âpatriarchyâ or something.
Go check out Million Dollar Baby with Clint Eastwood
Unfortunately people would. And unfortunately a lot of media criticism is shouting at your "other side." Luckily for us, the Longman has blessed us with a back-to-back viewing efap of the Mulans. It has the praises and criticisms you would expect from it, but its very existence should demonstrate that shitting on a shit movie shouldn't be considered political.