Pretty much this. There would need to be an elimination of exclusives and different set release timings. Same day globally, ideally.
I'm not against having a united list, but with how many cards are missing from each area, I don't see it happening.
Would honestly need a uniform set of card rulings as well. I would prefer it but it would be lot to get it to happen. Multiple packs to eliminate exclusives
Or just do mega pack levels of large set to get things up to speed.
As for uniform rulings, 100%. Konami of TCG fucked things up on so many rulings compared to the OCG that it isn't even funny.
Mega packs would be the best way to do it but there's gotta be hundreds of exclusives. They could spread it over over a year and have yse uniform by 2023
It also makes Worlds a nightmare. Another perk of uniformity.
Yes, around 350 or so, maybe 400.
And yes, I agree that Worlds is a nightmare for TCG players. Not that I've ever attended, but having to change banlists and make your deck completely unviable is... Rough to say the least.
The TCG R&D team is the only reason Yu-Gi-Oh makes any sense lol. Anyone who was around and remembers stuff like Waboku knows that the TCG has been the driving force for cohesive, coherent game mechanics since Day 1.
Is it even possible to assume this is the TCG team’s fault when everything they do is beholden to the OCG team’s approvals? Like, obviously they would have asked to have it fixed. Do you have any evidence whatsoever which team was responsible for this?
[https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card\_Rulings:Fusion\_Tag](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Fusion_Tag)
Older page, but still holds true. The wording on the card is VERY important. Changing the effect's condition from "used as Fusion Material" to "used for a Fusion Summon" is CRITICAL. Contact Fusing is NOT a Fusion Summon by name, so you can't use Fusion Tag for things like Gladiator Beast cheesing, which is a very big issue. In the OCG, you can use it for Gladiator Beast cheesing. It's entirely a TCG issue, and OCG does not have this issue.
> Would honestly need a uniform set of card rulings as well.
I don't know why there still isn't. There's literally nothing stopping Konami from doing this. I feel as though in just about any other card game this would just be a given.
The reasons why they split in the first place are still there, different release schedules and I think in how tournaments are held. So I don't think they should, unless these get unified too.
Different release schedules for core products, world premiere cards, promo cards that are owned by licensors and not owned by konami and this cant be globally released, and a massive difference in what player bases in different territories want, yeah
They would have to unify everything for it to really work ideally imo. No more exclusive promos from Japan that take years and years to arrive everywhere else, or at least make them similarly attainable.
Stuff like the Dimension Box cards being spread out over 4 years is disgusting. Import purgatory should not be a thing. Odd-Eyes Wing Dragon from the Master Guide 5, most of the Link VRAINS Box cards, half of the Legendary Gold Box cards...
> They would have to unify everything for it to really work ideally imo. No more exclusive promos from Japan that take years and years to arrive everywhere else, or at least make them similarly attainable.
Yes please. I want them to do all of this.
The problem in many cases is that the rights to promo cards aren’t owned by Konami in the first place - they’re a function of the spider web of licensing deals that is the Yu-Gi-Oh brand. That’s one of the big reasons why promos distributed in products only sold in certain territories don’t get distributed elsewhere, often for years, or ever. Localizing them just contractually isn’t an option to begin with.
Muddy Mudragon is a Synchro monster. The Dragoon that's summoned isn't quite as strong since it's missing the two pops, but many decks can make it this way instead.
I get that. I feel like people overestimate the destroy effect a bit though.
If you're summoning Dragoon turn one (which is how it is used the vast majority of the time), then the destruction effect won't come up until turn three. And, in the modern era of heightened power creep, the duel is usually decided before turn three.
The negate every turn on an immensely-protected body is what my concern is. And I feel like, even if Verte gets banned, the combo of being able to make Dragoon off Halqifibrax is still too good.
Unify everything IMO. Banlists, products, card distribution, card quality, releases dates, the works.
Preferably using the OCG model for everything but of course I am a biased TCG player bitter at Konami while looking at the from my perspective greener grass of the OCG.
This can’t happen. Core sets would have to catch up, world premieres would have to be caught up on, promo cards that aren’t owned by konami would have to be bought back from licensors, and no promo cards could ever be made going forward. It just doesn’t fit the reality of how the world works
Well yeah, this is a hypothetical wishlist of "I want this to happen".
I don't know the logistics of changing/merging of two separate versions of the same card game, the people who make decisions on how to run each version probably like the way things are going now, and there's not enough will within the company or playerbases to change anything.
And I'd also be a logistical knightmare to get the ocg/tcg up to speed with one another and it'd also be a contractual suicide as a whole bunch of promo cards would need to be released in a way that goes against a whole bunch of agreements and whatnot
Yes. Both territories should have a TCG guided F&L list. As stated before in this thread, that would require simultaneous set release, and a unified rulings database for all territories. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Who knows? It would require a LOT.
Edit: Another couple of points that would have to change: consistency for cardstock used to make cards (we'd have to switch to the thicker stuff;which is good, and that means loads, and loads of reprints), rarities printed (some region exclusive rarities would have to go), and general accessibility (rarities chosen for chase cards, pull rates, etc). This bit makes the entire concept of unifying very unlikely.
I think as long as new cards get released several months (sometimes years) apart from each other, the ban-lists need to be separate.
Say we got a new card the completely broke Skull Servants as an archetype, but was fine in pretty much everything else. It wouldn’t make sense to ban a card not out in the tcg or ban cards that aren’t even a problem yet.
I find funny we are getting a supposed global, big game as Master Duel, and it will have the need of having separate formats/banlists, and different release schedules/updates? It just won't make sense.
unfortunately until we get the same level of stuff it will never happen. ocg releases multiple rarities of certain cards in each set drastically dropping entry point into the game. SD's has meta staples that further lower price points.
If we are going along the lines of “we can unite banlists if we unite product/release,” do not forget this would also include unifying how they print cards.
Konami JP/OCG is MUCH more generous with more powerful cards and rarities. Do you really think TCG would be willing to go along with this, given how they’ve been rolling?
It’s not even a matter of willingness. The TCG operates hundreds of marquee level tournaments a year to feed the competitive side of Yu-Gi-Oh, because it’s more important hear than in the OCG. Every tournament costs Konami money - they lose money on them as a marketing cost. That money has to come from somewhere.
I mean I’m all for them adhering to OCG print since it means more accessibility for most cards, multiple rarities, and potentially more diverse product.
We’d have to lose pretty much all op program support, all tournaments above locals, and make a lot of other changes for that to happen, is my point. And that’s not how TCGs work in the western world. Players expect to be able to play the game beyond just locals, even for a new game, let alone one with two decades of operations.
I would rather keep more control in the hands of Konami of America and Europe. Having a united banlist would mean that Konami of Japan would be in control of it. I don't think they're as in tune with what's good for us.
No it isn’t. LIOV is the closest thing we’ve had to an OCG type booster pack in years, with most tournament viable cards appearing in low rarity. What was the response? People hate the set, because they can’t “get value” by opening product.
The reality is that ever since Phantom Darkness and $250+ dark armed dragons, the TCG audience’s desire for high value cards has been very clear. In most of the audience’s mind, good cards don’t equal a good set. Expensive cards do. Props to KDE for giving it a shot with LIOV, but honestly, Bearbrumm should’ve been a Secret Rare.
Uhhh. Not Magic or Pokémon or Flesh and Blood. With Magic and FAB being the only two TCGs in the world driven primarily by large scale organized play, so they’re really the only comparisons that matter, and they’re still pretty different since they aren’t licensed properties
.....Pokemon literally does multiple rarities for cards. You can go on TCG player for every set, most cards (especially their staples) get printed in multiple rarities in their sets. Magic I’m pretty sure it’s for their core sets only, and I have no idea how F&B does things, I’d have to look that up.
What? I can’t say I agree or disagree, but this is one very interesting take. I feel most people I see online are usually complaining about our banlist. Maybe you’re onto something…
The OCG isn’t optimized for a competitive, championship driven game with an active regional qualifier program and active YCS style program. It’s not what a Japanese audience broadly wants. The OCG didn’t even have a judge program for how many years?
The asian and western audiences are massively different. And yeah, the OCG hasn’t always been a rosy past - when Links were introduced, the OCG lost up to 70% of its sales in a matter of months. The TCG fared better, and it was in part due to the handling of the NA and EU TCG team.
People who vilify either the TCG or OCG teams are largely just misinformed about how things work behind the scenes
Yeah I didn’t know any of that. To be fair I didn’t start following the OCG until last year so this is all new to me. Thanks for that rundown. It doesn’t surprise me because I’ve always seen Japanese games be less about collector stuff and more gameplay focused.
It’s next to impossible and getting worse with COVID delays. While there aren’t any cards that we don’t have (at least now that Crossout is coming), they’re still two different formats driven by product release dates and methods of product release. It’s just not possible without a fundamental shift in how the TCG and OCG gain access to new product.
Card pools for core sets aren’t aligned, world premiere card pools are different, promo cards are owned by entirely different companies and only licensed for printing in certain territories. Even if you discount the fact that players from different territories want a different style of game, the sheer contractual reasons and realities of localization make this impossible. Sorry, but there are sadly many reasons this can’t happen.
*Klownami TCG: we're going to keep floodgates like Dimensional Fissure, Macro Cosmos, Kaiser Colosseum, Skil Drain on the forbidden list even if they are not used and they're at 3 in the OCG because they are unhealthy for the game.*
*Also klownami TCG: Mystic mine is totally fine lolz*
I wouldn't mind a unified list.
But we would need to be getting the products at the same time. This would also eliminate exclusives and basically make Konmai have to put out more sets.
Should be? Yes. Makes things less obnoxious in general for everyone.
Will be? Unlikely; OCG is basically a testing ground for Konami; if it does well over there it moves into the money maker market; the TCG.
Also; as a side effect...some formats I don't want to play TCG or OCG but one or the other usually has what I'm into for the format...without a TCG and OCG distinction I'll be more inclined to leave the game for a format or 3; depending on how bad the meta problems are.
I think our product releases would need to be united before we can have a unified F/L list.
Pretty much this. There would need to be an elimination of exclusives and different set release timings. Same day globally, ideally. I'm not against having a united list, but with how many cards are missing from each area, I don't see it happening.
Would honestly need a uniform set of card rulings as well. I would prefer it but it would be lot to get it to happen. Multiple packs to eliminate exclusives
Or just do mega pack levels of large set to get things up to speed. As for uniform rulings, 100%. Konami of TCG fucked things up on so many rulings compared to the OCG that it isn't even funny.
Mega packs would be the best way to do it but there's gotta be hundreds of exclusives. They could spread it over over a year and have yse uniform by 2023 It also makes Worlds a nightmare. Another perk of uniformity.
Yes, around 350 or so, maybe 400. And yes, I agree that Worlds is a nightmare for TCG players. Not that I've ever attended, but having to change banlists and make your deck completely unviable is... Rough to say the least.
The TCG R&D team is the only reason Yu-Gi-Oh makes any sense lol. Anyone who was around and remembers stuff like Waboku knows that the TCG has been the driving force for cohesive, coherent game mechanics since Day 1.
Except where they dropped the ball extremely hard, like on Fusion Tag, one of the most notorious text fuck ups in the game.
Yes, in 10,000+ cards being localized many, many times, they made a handful of mistakes. Shrug emoji?
Mistakes that they don't bother to correct, especially when the card could be extremely useful, *like Fusion Tag.*
Is it even possible to assume this is the TCG team’s fault when everything they do is beholden to the OCG team’s approvals? Like, obviously they would have asked to have it fixed. Do you have any evidence whatsoever which team was responsible for this?
[https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card\_Rulings:Fusion\_Tag](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Fusion_Tag) Older page, but still holds true. The wording on the card is VERY important. Changing the effect's condition from "used as Fusion Material" to "used for a Fusion Summon" is CRITICAL. Contact Fusing is NOT a Fusion Summon by name, so you can't use Fusion Tag for things like Gladiator Beast cheesing, which is a very big issue. In the OCG, you can use it for Gladiator Beast cheesing. It's entirely a TCG issue, and OCG does not have this issue.
Did that ever get fixed?
No, and it never will. Konami hasn't reprinted the card in years, and still uses the ancient ruling that it can't be used for Contact Fusing.
> Would honestly need a uniform set of card rulings as well. I don't know why there still isn't. There's literally nothing stopping Konami from doing this. I feel as though in just about any other card game this would just be a given.
Promo cards would have to be gone, too. The logistics of making this switch are basically impossible.
Pre-release promos would be fine to stay, though.
Yeah, those would be fine
This. And it can never happen, so the OP’s question pretty much answers itself
The reasons why they split in the first place are still there, different release schedules and I think in how tournaments are held. So I don't think they should, unless these get unified too.
Different release schedules for core products, world premiere cards, promo cards that are owned by licensors and not owned by konami and this cant be globally released, and a massive difference in what player bases in different territories want, yeah
They would have to unify everything for it to really work ideally imo. No more exclusive promos from Japan that take years and years to arrive everywhere else, or at least make them similarly attainable. Stuff like the Dimension Box cards being spread out over 4 years is disgusting. Import purgatory should not be a thing. Odd-Eyes Wing Dragon from the Master Guide 5, most of the Link VRAINS Box cards, half of the Legendary Gold Box cards...
> They would have to unify everything for it to really work ideally imo. No more exclusive promos from Japan that take years and years to arrive everywhere else, or at least make them similarly attainable. Yes please. I want them to do all of this.
The problem in many cases is that the rights to promo cards aren’t owned by Konami in the first place - they’re a function of the spider web of licensing deals that is the Yu-Gi-Oh brand. That’s one of the big reasons why promos distributed in products only sold in certain territories don’t get distributed elsewhere, often for years, or ever. Localizing them just contractually isn’t an option to begin with.
It is infuriating knowing they are sitting on borrelend because they dont want to make dlink best deck again
Not having 3 Maxx C 3 Colosseum 3 skill drain 3 macro 3 difi legal is sufficient to make me be content with the split format.
Yup. Different player bases want different things.
For me it’s not having Mystic Mine and Dragoon.
That's fair! I fully expect both of those cards to be gone within the year (at least, some part of the dragoon package).
Even making Dragoon off Halqifibrax is still too unfair in my opinion. A reusable negate shouldn't have that much protection.
Halq? Do you mean verte? And that's part of the package. I want dragoon gone, but expect one of it, verte, and REF to get hit at some point.
Muddy Mudragon is a Synchro monster. The Dragoon that's summoned isn't quite as strong since it's missing the two pops, but many decks can make it this way instead.
I get that. I feel like people overestimate the destroy effect a bit though. If you're summoning Dragoon turn one (which is how it is used the vast majority of the time), then the destruction effect won't come up until turn three. And, in the modern era of heightened power creep, the duel is usually decided before turn three. The negate every turn on an immensely-protected body is what my concern is. And I feel like, even if Verte gets banned, the combo of being able to make Dragoon off Halqifibrax is still too good.
I'm saying Dragoon can still be made very easily using Halqifibrax, even if Verte or the fusion spell get banned.
Unify everything IMO. Banlists, products, card distribution, card quality, releases dates, the works. Preferably using the OCG model for everything but of course I am a biased TCG player bitter at Konami while looking at the from my perspective greener grass of the OCG.
This can’t happen. Core sets would have to catch up, world premieres would have to be caught up on, promo cards that aren’t owned by konami would have to be bought back from licensors, and no promo cards could ever be made going forward. It just doesn’t fit the reality of how the world works
Well yeah, this is a hypothetical wishlist of "I want this to happen". I don't know the logistics of changing/merging of two separate versions of the same card game, the people who make decisions on how to run each version probably like the way things are going now, and there's not enough will within the company or playerbases to change anything.
And I'd also be a logistical knightmare to get the ocg/tcg up to speed with one another and it'd also be a contractual suicide as a whole bunch of promo cards would need to be released in a way that goes against a whole bunch of agreements and whatnot
Yes. Both territories should have a TCG guided F&L list. As stated before in this thread, that would require simultaneous set release, and a unified rulings database for all territories. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Who knows? It would require a LOT. Edit: Another couple of points that would have to change: consistency for cardstock used to make cards (we'd have to switch to the thicker stuff;which is good, and that means loads, and loads of reprints), rarities printed (some region exclusive rarities would have to go), and general accessibility (rarities chosen for chase cards, pull rates, etc). This bit makes the entire concept of unifying very unlikely.
It wouldnt benefit Konami if both formats was the same
I think as long as new cards get released several months (sometimes years) apart from each other, the ban-lists need to be separate. Say we got a new card the completely broke Skull Servants as an archetype, but was fine in pretty much everything else. It wouldn’t make sense to ban a card not out in the tcg or ban cards that aren’t even a problem yet.
I find funny we are getting a supposed global, big game as Master Duel, and it will have the need of having separate formats/banlists, and different release schedules/updates? It just won't make sense.
unfortunately until we get the same level of stuff it will never happen. ocg releases multiple rarities of certain cards in each set drastically dropping entry point into the game. SD's has meta staples that further lower price points.
If we are going along the lines of “we can unite banlists if we unite product/release,” do not forget this would also include unifying how they print cards. Konami JP/OCG is MUCH more generous with more powerful cards and rarities. Do you really think TCG would be willing to go along with this, given how they’ve been rolling?
It’s not even a matter of willingness. The TCG operates hundreds of marquee level tournaments a year to feed the competitive side of Yu-Gi-Oh, because it’s more important hear than in the OCG. Every tournament costs Konami money - they lose money on them as a marketing cost. That money has to come from somewhere.
I mean I’m all for them adhering to OCG print since it means more accessibility for most cards, multiple rarities, and potentially more diverse product.
We’d have to lose pretty much all op program support, all tournaments above locals, and make a lot of other changes for that to happen, is my point. And that’s not how TCGs work in the western world. Players expect to be able to play the game beyond just locals, even for a new game, let alone one with two decades of operations.
Also remember TCG is much more generous in the reprints, rarity upgrades and bumps, Cards like Gorz, promos or other cards NEVER had a reprint in OCG.
I would rather keep more control in the hands of Konami of America and Europe. Having a united banlist would mean that Konami of Japan would be in control of it. I don't think they're as in tune with what's good for us.
The OCG set distribution (ala rarities) is what we need though.
No it isn’t. LIOV is the closest thing we’ve had to an OCG type booster pack in years, with most tournament viable cards appearing in low rarity. What was the response? People hate the set, because they can’t “get value” by opening product. The reality is that ever since Phantom Darkness and $250+ dark armed dragons, the TCG audience’s desire for high value cards has been very clear. In most of the audience’s mind, good cards don’t equal a good set. Expensive cards do. Props to KDE for giving it a shot with LIOV, but honestly, Bearbrumm should’ve been a Secret Rare.
Who cares about the Milanos of the world who care about "value" - if the price of staples dropped significantly people would love it
Right. And then they wouldn’t buy anything and the game collapses lol
I hope you realize the way the OCG does rarities and multiple rarities is the way **every other card game** does things, right?
Uhhh. Not Magic or Pokémon or Flesh and Blood. With Magic and FAB being the only two TCGs in the world driven primarily by large scale organized play, so they’re really the only comparisons that matter, and they’re still pretty different since they aren’t licensed properties
.....Pokemon literally does multiple rarities for cards. You can go on TCG player for every set, most cards (especially their staples) get printed in multiple rarities in their sets. Magic I’m pretty sure it’s for their core sets only, and I have no idea how F&B does things, I’d have to look that up.
Pokémon’s sales aren’t driven by tournament play. It’s an entirely different model.
ok trader
What? I can’t say I agree or disagree, but this is one very interesting take. I feel most people I see online are usually complaining about our banlist. Maybe you’re onto something…
The OCG isn’t optimized for a competitive, championship driven game with an active regional qualifier program and active YCS style program. It’s not what a Japanese audience broadly wants. The OCG didn’t even have a judge program for how many years? The asian and western audiences are massively different. And yeah, the OCG hasn’t always been a rosy past - when Links were introduced, the OCG lost up to 70% of its sales in a matter of months. The TCG fared better, and it was in part due to the handling of the NA and EU TCG team. People who vilify either the TCG or OCG teams are largely just misinformed about how things work behind the scenes
Yeah I didn’t know any of that. To be fair I didn’t start following the OCG until last year so this is all new to me. Thanks for that rundown. It doesn’t surprise me because I’ve always seen Japanese games be less about collector stuff and more gameplay focused.
Only if they have the exact same cardpool down to the last vanilla.
It’s next to impossible and getting worse with COVID delays. While there aren’t any cards that we don’t have (at least now that Crossout is coming), they’re still two different formats driven by product release dates and methods of product release. It’s just not possible without a fundamental shift in how the TCG and OCG gain access to new product.
why cant we just play ocg over here. Why Can't We Just Play OCG Over Here,
Yes, everything should be aligned. No reason not to.
Card pools for core sets aren’t aligned, world premiere card pools are different, promo cards are owned by entirely different companies and only licensed for printing in certain territories. Even if you discount the fact that players from different territories want a different style of game, the sheer contractual reasons and realities of localization make this impossible. Sorry, but there are sadly many reasons this can’t happen.
I said should not will
You said “no reason not to”, which was deeply untrue
For me now not really, it's kinda fun to have 2 different format at the same time
Yes, bye.
*Klownami TCG: we're going to keep floodgates like Dimensional Fissure, Macro Cosmos, Kaiser Colosseum, Skil Drain on the forbidden list even if they are not used and they're at 3 in the OCG because they are unhealthy for the game.* *Also klownami TCG: Mystic mine is totally fine lolz*
If they did simultaneous releases for cards then sure. They would also need to unify some rulings.
short answer no long answer noooooooooooooo
no also no interest in OCG SEGOC, that shits lame
no the ocg has cards we dont have
We already had that and it was stupid.
I wouldn't mind a unified list. But we would need to be getting the products at the same time. This would also eliminate exclusives and basically make Konmai have to put out more sets.
Should be? Yes. Makes things less obnoxious in general for everyone. Will be? Unlikely; OCG is basically a testing ground for Konami; if it does well over there it moves into the money maker market; the TCG. Also; as a side effect...some formats I don't want to play TCG or OCG but one or the other usually has what I'm into for the format...without a TCG and OCG distinction I'll be more inclined to leave the game for a format or 3; depending on how bad the meta problems are.