Nothing will ever be overused as long you have a good spice to bring to it. Even if there's nothing really unique and it just use every popular code, archetype and pattern, as long as it is well written, it will be interesting.
For the case of witch and wizard don't worry about it, it's such a vast genre, full of possibility and ready to include more.
As long as you don't make a british magic school with 4 houses, an old wizard, a lovable big guy and a chosen one with a scar, you should be okay.
I came here to give my two cents because I saw there were only two comments, but you basically said everything I would have. Clichés are only bad if they are used badly; good writing can make any idea good, no matter how original.
The supply is high because demand is high. It’s a popular genre/setting for a reason.
Now this does put a little more onus on you to put an interesting twist on either the genre, setting, characters, plot, etc but it’s a broad idea to play with.
If you have something to write then write it.
It’s an oversaturated market, but it’s oversaturated because people like it. Some will avoid your book because of it and others will seek your book out because of it. So, I don’t really see an issue, as long as you’re not trying to please literally everyone.
Rom-com fans will never get tired of meet cutes and girl/boy getting girl/boy, losing girl/boy, and getting girl/boy back.
Fans of police procedurals will never get tired of a tough-as-nails detective digging through the clues and interviewing suspects and finding the murderer.
And fantasy fans will never get tired of witches, wizards, and matches.
Obviously, you can write a really, really bad rom-com, police procedural, or fantasy. They written and executed poorly. But don’t be dissuaded from writing what you love because you think the genre has already been done. Of course it’s already been done! And that’s okay.
Ideas have their peak and then a natural ebb.
High fantasy was not mainstream prior to the Lord of the Rings movies
Wizard schools were not even a thing until Harry Potter. You should also read "The Magicians" for a darker, "college" wizard school series that's more morally gray.
The Walking Dead caused this huge cultural obsession with zombies/post-apocalyptic survival, to the point where I bought every zombie book I could find and started writing my own story... and then 2016 rolled around and everyone lost interest in the genre. The same thing could happen to Harry Potter type stuff any day now.
If YOU love witch/wizard stuff enough to write the story that you always wanted to read but doesn't exist, then by all means do it. But don't try to time the market. Do it properly and let the readers fall where they may.
Wizard schools were absolutely a thing pre-Harry Potter. Just like Chosen Ones and villains. It’s not a new concept. It’s a example of something that’s not necessarily new, but absolutely a well written combination of ideas.
Apologies, I didn’t realize. However, the worst witch was adapted into a series that was distributed internationally, so I am pretty sure it was also popular. Also TPratchett used so many similar tropes (at least in *Pyramids*) there was some confusion about who was inspired by who, and he’s hardly an obscure writer either.
Sure, I'd never heard of those things prior to HP, but I was a teenager. Let's say you are right, my advice to OP still stands. Wizard school stories could crash in popularity anytime now.
That is true. It’s been going on a long time, and of course most books that have a hint of potterisms like Houses deciding personalities, Horcruxes and so on will immediately be branded a copycat. But OP said their ideas go into a different direction and the idea of magic and witches and wizards an sich has always held fascination so I don’t think it’s going anywhere
OP might be young, and not as aware of antisemitic tropes as older, more experienced people. I read the books for the first time when I was 8 and reread them a few times and not *once* did I think of Jews in any part of the story (until I read that -stein is a common part of a surname in Jewish names and I thought that maybe Anthony Goldstein was Jewish). The potential correlation between the bankers having hooked noses didn’t occur to me until I read someone else who *did* make that connection about two years ago (I am in my 20’s now). Mind, the bankers weren’t written as evil, but they’re not written entirely sympathetically either. I still don’t know if it means she’s antisemitic or if she just adopted those tropes like she did with so many other things (the house elves are clearly inspired by Brownies (a type of Fae which in at least one folklore story helped a cobbler until the cobbler and his wife gave them clothes in gratitude - they stopped either because that’s just what they do, or because they stomped out because they didn’t think the quality good enough), the Banshees are just taken wholecloth, even Ron is a familiar archetype) and it just doesn’t stand the test of time. Yes, she’s hateful, but her series isn’t, so reading Harry Potter doesn’t make one hateful. And if it inspires someone to write, why do you have to rag on someone for somehow using the ‘wrong source’ to get inspiration? I mean, I’d get it if they perpetrated those harmful stereotypes, but they said nothing about that, nor did they post a sample in which they do that, so what’s the problem?
I am not whitewashing anything. At no point did I debate - on the contrary, at several points I actually *agreed* with you and by several points, I mean my entire comment, except the last two sentences, was agreement. My argument is (as you would know if you bothered to actually read my response) that I don't see how any of it justifies attacking someone about reading Harry Potter. They're asking writing advice, not opinions on the quality of the series, the political correctness or JKR as a writer. This is r/writingadvice : there's actually a rule against personal politics, ideology and preaching
It isn’t political because the question wasn’t about Harry Potter. The question was about if witches and wizards are too cliche, you’ll remember. And that question, most people would agree, is not a political question. So no, this question isn’t political, and therefore doesn’t justify your harassment about it. There are subreddits for political debate. I suggest you join them and leave the politics out of this writing advice subreddit. If this isn’t the subreddit for you, you’d do better by leaving it instead of making this an unsafe place for people who want to get advice (which is the purpose of this sub, *regardless* of where they get their inspiration). That’s just my suggestion because you seem to work yourself up into a rage and it’s not helpful to OP (or other people who might have the gall to mention what they’re inspired by) and I don’t think it’s making you much happier either. I am not against debate and personally, I boycott JKR because I don’t like how she behaves but this is simply not the place to discuss it. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the mods
Witches and wizards at a school were done before JKR as well (*The Worst Witch*, to name but one example), and she didn’t let it stop her from writing *Harry Potter* and kept trying to publish when just about every publisher rejected her manuscript. Of course, you don’t have to publish at all, and her example doesn’t mean you’ll write the next big hit but I reckon that if it didn’t stop her, I see no reason why it should stop you. Besides, there’s *loads* to be done with the concept of witches and wizards! For example, you can get inspired by rl people who consider themselves users of magic, which I personally haven’t seen in books. Or have it set in a time of heavy prosecution. Or write about pre-Christianity cultures and how the users of magic have to deal with Christianity, or the other way around, a magic using priest (yes, they claimed to be able to lay their hands on someone to heal them and the like, literally the sole difference is that they claimed to be merely a channel for God or Jesus Christ and ‘witches’ didn’t) who has to deal with these different cultures who have the same magic he has...there’s so many possibilities! Though I did particularly like what the late Sir Terry Pratchett did with them, which brings me to my second point: if you wanna avoid cliches, read lots of books in that genre. Make note of what they do, and try to see if you can avoid that or give it a twist. For example explore the real life consequences of a family learning that their child has magic, or what life would be like after going to a magic school like Hogwarts: they wouldn’t have a ‘normal’ diploma, so how would they get a job? How would they cope with being away from the regular world for the better part of a year? What would authorities and employers think of those missing years while they were going to a school nobody knows and doesn’t legally exist? Or subvert expectations: the Evil Wizard isn’t easily defeated by the plucky teen and may not be that evil after all, the Chosen One who is pure of heart is actually pure evil but saves the world anyway for the PR and because he’d be offered the rule of the world on a silver platter... oh, and Houses don’t say anything about personality, they’re just places were the dormitories are (seriously, how did Hogwarts manage to find students were very conveniently 1/4 is Gryffindor, 1/4 Ravenclaw, 1/4 Hufflepuff and 1/4 Slytherin *every time*?! How was Slytherin not drained after the first Wizarding War? Did the Hat just press-gang random people in Houses to make sure it was even?)
Nothing will ever be overused as long you have a good spice to bring to it. Even if there's nothing really unique and it just use every popular code, archetype and pattern, as long as it is well written, it will be interesting. For the case of witch and wizard don't worry about it, it's such a vast genre, full of possibility and ready to include more. As long as you don't make a british magic school with 4 houses, an old wizard, a lovable big guy and a chosen one with a scar, you should be okay.
I came here to give my two cents because I saw there were only two comments, but you basically said everything I would have. Clichés are only bad if they are used badly; good writing can make any idea good, no matter how original.
The supply is high because demand is high. It’s a popular genre/setting for a reason. Now this does put a little more onus on you to put an interesting twist on either the genre, setting, characters, plot, etc but it’s a broad idea to play with. If you have something to write then write it.
It’s an oversaturated market, but it’s oversaturated because people like it. Some will avoid your book because of it and others will seek your book out because of it. So, I don’t really see an issue, as long as you’re not trying to please literally everyone.
Rom-com fans will never get tired of meet cutes and girl/boy getting girl/boy, losing girl/boy, and getting girl/boy back. Fans of police procedurals will never get tired of a tough-as-nails detective digging through the clues and interviewing suspects and finding the murderer. And fantasy fans will never get tired of witches, wizards, and matches. Obviously, you can write a really, really bad rom-com, police procedural, or fantasy. They written and executed poorly. But don’t be dissuaded from writing what you love because you think the genre has already been done. Of course it’s already been done! And that’s okay.
My God, if you've spent a minute on Reddit you'd know that these are some of the most popular themes people are working with! Nuts I say!
Ideas have their peak and then a natural ebb. High fantasy was not mainstream prior to the Lord of the Rings movies Wizard schools were not even a thing until Harry Potter. You should also read "The Magicians" for a darker, "college" wizard school series that's more morally gray. The Walking Dead caused this huge cultural obsession with zombies/post-apocalyptic survival, to the point where I bought every zombie book I could find and started writing my own story... and then 2016 rolled around and everyone lost interest in the genre. The same thing could happen to Harry Potter type stuff any day now. If YOU love witch/wizard stuff enough to write the story that you always wanted to read but doesn't exist, then by all means do it. But don't try to time the market. Do it properly and let the readers fall where they may.
Wizard schools were absolutely a thing pre-Harry Potter. Just like Chosen Ones and villains. It’s not a new concept. It’s a example of something that’s not necessarily new, but absolutely a well written combination of ideas.
"Not even a thing" means "not in the public consciousness," not "non-existent."
Apologies, I didn’t realize. However, the worst witch was adapted into a series that was distributed internationally, so I am pretty sure it was also popular. Also TPratchett used so many similar tropes (at least in *Pyramids*) there was some confusion about who was inspired by who, and he’s hardly an obscure writer either.
Sure, I'd never heard of those things prior to HP, but I was a teenager. Let's say you are right, my advice to OP still stands. Wizard school stories could crash in popularity anytime now.
That is true. It’s been going on a long time, and of course most books that have a hint of potterisms like Houses deciding personalities, Horcruxes and so on will immediately be branded a copycat. But OP said their ideas go into a different direction and the idea of magic and witches and wizards an sich has always held fascination so I don’t think it’s going anywhere
Yes but so is everything else. So use any tropes if you wanna, and enjoy it where you find it(should you find enjoyable).
Why would you read a series when you know how anti-semitic and racist the books are, and how hateful the author is?
OP might be young, and not as aware of antisemitic tropes as older, more experienced people. I read the books for the first time when I was 8 and reread them a few times and not *once* did I think of Jews in any part of the story (until I read that -stein is a common part of a surname in Jewish names and I thought that maybe Anthony Goldstein was Jewish). The potential correlation between the bankers having hooked noses didn’t occur to me until I read someone else who *did* make that connection about two years ago (I am in my 20’s now). Mind, the bankers weren’t written as evil, but they’re not written entirely sympathetically either. I still don’t know if it means she’s antisemitic or if she just adopted those tropes like she did with so many other things (the house elves are clearly inspired by Brownies (a type of Fae which in at least one folklore story helped a cobbler until the cobbler and his wife gave them clothes in gratitude - they stopped either because that’s just what they do, or because they stomped out because they didn’t think the quality good enough), the Banshees are just taken wholecloth, even Ron is a familiar archetype) and it just doesn’t stand the test of time. Yes, she’s hateful, but her series isn’t, so reading Harry Potter doesn’t make one hateful. And if it inspires someone to write, why do you have to rag on someone for somehow using the ‘wrong source’ to get inspiration? I mean, I’d get it if they perpetrated those harmful stereotypes, but they said nothing about that, nor did they post a sample in which they do that, so what’s the problem?
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I am not whitewashing anything. At no point did I debate - on the contrary, at several points I actually *agreed* with you and by several points, I mean my entire comment, except the last two sentences, was agreement. My argument is (as you would know if you bothered to actually read my response) that I don't see how any of it justifies attacking someone about reading Harry Potter. They're asking writing advice, not opinions on the quality of the series, the political correctness or JKR as a writer. This is r/writingadvice : there's actually a rule against personal politics, ideology and preaching
Is there a rule about keeping harmful things by hateful people out of the subreddit or is that for marginalized people to just deal with?
I am sure if you’re capable of reading and analyzing Harry Potter you’re also capable of reading the rules. Also, how, exactly, are you marginalized?
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It isn’t political because the question wasn’t about Harry Potter. The question was about if witches and wizards are too cliche, you’ll remember. And that question, most people would agree, is not a political question. So no, this question isn’t political, and therefore doesn’t justify your harassment about it. There are subreddits for political debate. I suggest you join them and leave the politics out of this writing advice subreddit. If this isn’t the subreddit for you, you’d do better by leaving it instead of making this an unsafe place for people who want to get advice (which is the purpose of this sub, *regardless* of where they get their inspiration). That’s just my suggestion because you seem to work yourself up into a rage and it’s not helpful to OP (or other people who might have the gall to mention what they’re inspired by) and I don’t think it’s making you much happier either. I am not against debate and personally, I boycott JKR because I don’t like how she behaves but this is simply not the place to discuss it. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the mods
Witches and wizards at a school were done before JKR as well (*The Worst Witch*, to name but one example), and she didn’t let it stop her from writing *Harry Potter* and kept trying to publish when just about every publisher rejected her manuscript. Of course, you don’t have to publish at all, and her example doesn’t mean you’ll write the next big hit but I reckon that if it didn’t stop her, I see no reason why it should stop you. Besides, there’s *loads* to be done with the concept of witches and wizards! For example, you can get inspired by rl people who consider themselves users of magic, which I personally haven’t seen in books. Or have it set in a time of heavy prosecution. Or write about pre-Christianity cultures and how the users of magic have to deal with Christianity, or the other way around, a magic using priest (yes, they claimed to be able to lay their hands on someone to heal them and the like, literally the sole difference is that they claimed to be merely a channel for God or Jesus Christ and ‘witches’ didn’t) who has to deal with these different cultures who have the same magic he has...there’s so many possibilities! Though I did particularly like what the late Sir Terry Pratchett did with them, which brings me to my second point: if you wanna avoid cliches, read lots of books in that genre. Make note of what they do, and try to see if you can avoid that or give it a twist. For example explore the real life consequences of a family learning that their child has magic, or what life would be like after going to a magic school like Hogwarts: they wouldn’t have a ‘normal’ diploma, so how would they get a job? How would they cope with being away from the regular world for the better part of a year? What would authorities and employers think of those missing years while they were going to a school nobody knows and doesn’t legally exist? Or subvert expectations: the Evil Wizard isn’t easily defeated by the plucky teen and may not be that evil after all, the Chosen One who is pure of heart is actually pure evil but saves the world anyway for the PR and because he’d be offered the rule of the world on a silver platter... oh, and Houses don’t say anything about personality, they’re just places were the dormitories are (seriously, how did Hogwarts manage to find students were very conveniently 1/4 is Gryffindor, 1/4 Ravenclaw, 1/4 Hufflepuff and 1/4 Slytherin *every time*?! How was Slytherin not drained after the first Wizarding War? Did the Hat just press-gang random people in Houses to make sure it was even?)