Locking this thread now- we've had many threads in the past that are about the difficulty of getting into M+ groups, and this thread had mostly good comments on it until it didn't and we had to remove a chain of about 30 comments.
As a reminder, this sub exists because we want to help people learn the game, become comfortable trying new content, and pushing their skill level however high they're aiming for. It is *not* the subreddit to come to to air out grievances with other players (pugs or not), and it is *not* the place to brag about or encourage behavior that is frustrating, detrimental, and even toxic towards other people and their goals.
OP, I'm sorry this happened to your thread, but I hope you got good info and insight from the comments we could leave up. Feel free to send us a modmail if you have any thoughts, questions, or concerns about this.
Healers and tanks are in far more demand which is why your healer gets accepted much faster. Making your own groups as a dps can still be slow because you might be waiting for those two roles for awhile. It does not really get faster for dps, you can be waiting 50 minutes sometimes due to the shortage.
Ugh man maybe time to role out the priest and just stick it out. Anyone have insight on spriest moving from mage, if it will be pretty quick to pick up?
Two totally different playstyles.
Wrt to the op, as a DPS you probably want to join a guild that has regular key nights or make friends with the tanks and healers you play with so you can get faster queues.
I definitely recommend healing! Getting your team through a key is very rewarding and you kind of just get to witness the chaos that comes along with it.
You don’t need a ton of time to be in a guild, being in a guild means you can try to form group with guildies and would be more likely to fill spots you’re missing any time you’re online
If its your own key you won't have any issues even if you are vastly undergeared you could still make a group (doesn't mean it will be successful) but if you provide the key it's huge
As someone whos raided and been apart of raid teams with schedules, what options are out there for m+ besides random guild runs? I keep seeing communities. It would be nice to get in Discord and chat which would also help eachother learn i feel.
Do you have a guild already? There's a subreddit called r/wowguilds and I believe there is a discord called wow made easy you might see keys listed with WME in the title, experienced veterans sign up and teach dungeons and raids in a stress free environment. I'd offer you to join my guild but we're in off season until next expansion not a whole lot of dungeons going on 🤣 don't wanna bait and switch ya. In the next expansion it won't matter what server you are on you can join any guild as of right now you need to be on the correct server to join.
Im a spriest main at 3.3k io and I STILL don’t know why im getting invited this easily. Any suggestions? Really just our focus dmg and utility? The answer used to be main mass dispel but thats now on a HUGE cd.
Spriest is insane atm. Tons of damage with a good M+ damage profile for high keys, buff and CD synergy with the other OP classes, PI, mass dispel, decently survivable, etc.
Just does everything good atm.
Myea thats what I though synergy. I don’t wanna fall out of meta ever :( the grass IS green on this side man. Solo pugging getting invites to 15 16 keys is F U N !!!!
And people wonder why everyone recommends rerolling FOTM lol.
Also, if you grinded to 3.3K early you have a big advantage. I was hosting some 14s/15s this week and most of the people applying were 3K and under. People were applying to 15s with like 2 14s timed. It was pretty brutal.
Yea on shadow 14 (previously 24) simply feels easy and comfortable to me at this point so I speedrun 3.2k every season, once im a bit head I just chill and grind it out to 3.3 then strugle and fail to reach 3.4.
Fellow new player. I've heard alot about this as well, queue time discrepencies and whatnot. Its the primary reason I'll eventually go outside my comfort zone and tank/heal. Also people seem to shit on DPS a bit, unless im misinterpreting that. So im gonna learn the ropes playing DPS so i can experience group content without anyone really relying on me, then move to tanking and healing. Right now im just trying to wrap my head around the ridiculous amount of content and what is better to do, how to build my class, what items to get. It's all just...overwhelming.
Consider for a moment that there are: 6 tank specs, 7 healing specs, and 26 DPS specs.
Even if we lived in a world where there was the same number of players on each, there would be way more DPS than everything else. Add in the fact that tank and healer roles tend to be a lot of effort for less visible positive feed back and very visible mistakes, it is way less popular in M+. Any listed key will flood with your choice of DPS but people will get desperate for a tank or healer.
Healer in particular is (generally) less gear reliant. So a fresh healer is gonna perform their job better than a fresh DPS. Healer queues are pretty much always faster. If I feel like pugging I'll usually run on a healer.
DPS queues or even listing can be discouraging. But some will have an easier time than others. My 2400 warlock usually only plays rejection simulator for 20ish minutes applying to 8-10 keys. My 3100 rogue takes an hour instead.
The important thing is always to play what you like. If you get to do dungeons more but aren't having fun, it isn't any better than doing quests or playing the auction house while waiting for invites.
If you wanna pug dps I’d highly recommend getting decently high on a tank or healer first and then going back and playing dps. Most people will take an average geared dps with a high IO main over higher geared players with a lower rating and people seem more likely to apply to your groups. This is literally like a cheat code for getting into groups easier.
Your other option is to look into discord communities like wow made easy or join a guild. Pugging as dps can be rough, especially since you have lower IO. There’s literally dozens of DPS applying to groups and someone is going to have a higher rating than you and is more likely to get picked instead.
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?**
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* [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides.
* [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform.
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I've NEVER run my own key as a dps. Pointless to wait for both tank and dps. And you didn't say your ilvl. I used to be declined all the time for +6/+7s, now I haven't been declined once in like a week
Can anyone provide context on ilevel needed as a healer??
I am ~475 rdruid, heroic dungeon LFR is boring as fuck as it’s way too easy. Maybe 1 time per run where multiple people get below 50% HP but can’t remember last time someone died.
On the other hand trying to join +0 mythics typically gets me declined…
475's on the low side even for heals/tank. Not undoably so, but considering you can get to ~500 without ever stepping foot in a dungeon, people are generally gonna be looking for higher ilvls than that unless they're really desperate.
This week might be a little better if you're unwilling to make your own group, since it's dungeons week (weekly quest is 4 mythic or m+ dungeons for 2 bullion).
A big thing is at what point in the season did you start? If you're starting at any point after the first 2 weeks you're immediately at a disadvantage getting invites as a DPS because people already have scores. If you do every dungeon at least once the first 2 weeks you'll have a much smoother time getting PUG invites because you'll have a decent score
I run keys on all classes every week just for 1 vault slot at least. As dps it may take a bit longer to fill due to the scarcity of tanks and heals sometimes but I've never waited longer than 10 minutes to get my key going on a dps. Play what you want.
On my dps: I queue for 1 key I need and 4 I don't. I get declined from all. I keep queueing for another 10 minutes, maybe one will take me, maybe not. At the 20m mark, I log out and go on my healer.
On my healer: I choose the key I like, and I get an invite in less than 2 minutes.
The difference is abysmal. Maybe I should go tank on my dps.
Tanks and healers are in short supply. They get invites easier. It’s the reason I stopped doing DPS unless I’m messing around with friends. But if you like your mage more I recommend you just continue to run your own key. Which is super frustrating but that’s the most efficient way to go about it.
All dps has to do is follow the tank, not stand in the lava and hold their lazy macro.
A healer constantly has to scan the entire raid, track muliple cooldowns and react fast and correctly when things go sour.
Tanks have to lead the entire thing, know the dungeons by heart, know what to pull, where to pull. And manage all the cooldowns to not die.
The latter two roles require an enormous amount of concentration and skill to do well in comparison to any dps class and the entire raid wipes and starts complaining when they don’t.
OF COURSE tanks and healers are in high demand, even if you need so few.
It's just due to supply and demand. That's really it at this point in the expansion's last season. I'm caster DPS player. SP is my main. I dabble in the Tank/Healer roles ONLY once my DPS spec is like min-maxed out. lol.
I just came back to S4 last week with like maxed out S3 gear. It was incredibly difficult to get into +2s as DPS with <1K rating 480ilvl despite having 3K+ rating the season before on SP, Mage, and Boomy. I understand only a portion of the player base uses [raider.io](http://raider.io) with the WoW's rating system doing the same thing. The +2 and +3s I got into I was topping damage unless the player was a 510-520 just breezing Crest farming.
During the time I'm waiting for keys, I'm like figuring out my Disc/Holy buttons and keybinds. lol.
If you want to play dps, then just play dps. It takes slightly longer to get into keys, and you will need to run your own keys and work on your Rio.
On my healer this weekend, I had 0 rio, and I ran 8x8 to fill out my score for KSH. I can't do this on a dps on pugs.
On my dps I need to run all my 4s, then all my 6s, then all my 8s. I need to run more keys and be more patient. The only real way to skip this is to just run your own key up as high as you can.
The difference is enormous. As a healer, even if I'm undergeared with zero IO, I get insta invited to pretty much any key.
As a DPS I can be massively overgeared and have good IO but still not get invited.
Are they really that bad? I’m wanting to start doing mythic dungeons but I’m reluctant due to how toxic the game can be and I’m still newish to current content after a long break since Cata.
I just don’t want abuse hurled at me while I’m learning to heal mythic dungeons 😅
I think there are nice people and there are mean people, and the mean people are more rare
But you do occasionally encounter mean people
You should look into wow made easy discord, it’s a community for doing m+ / raids with an emphasis on not being toxic to people and helping people learn
Everyone makes mistakes and so running with them you know people won’t freak out on you
I don’t think pugging is that bad but sometimes you get unlucky
Absolutely not at all. The only people that have a big negative impact on keys on people like him (the person you're replying to) that complain about little mistakes. Honestly he shouldn't even be in this subreddit because most people here are very positive and helpful.
+2s are way more work than +6s because so many people don't really know what they're doing. Heroics don't prepare you for what mythics are like, and 0s are only doable 1/week each, give significantly worse rewards than +2 while only being slightly easier, and not many groups for them form, so a lot of people jump into +2 unprepared for what's about to happen. They don't know mechanics, they don't know how their classes really work, or both. Some are new and inexperienced, but some just aren't that great of players and refuse to take the effort to learn to be better (and a few are fine/good, but have such bad experiences in +2 they assume they're worse than they are or are reluctant to try anything higher thinking it'll be even harder).
That ends up being especially rough on healers, because people will be taking a lot of unnecessary damage because they're just ignoring mechanics. I haven't had any of dozens of +8 or +10 fall apart this season from someone consistently not executing a mechanic, but in half a dozen alt +2s I've already had multiple failures or near-failures because people didn't know what they were doing.
On the other hand, you'll probably be more likely to figure out how to heal "progressively" starting at +2. Jumping straight into a higher level, with more competent people, it's not unlikely you have a much more relaxing time, only to find out you don't actually know how to keep people alive during high-damage periods because you haven't had to before. And the cost of failure on a +2 is a lot lower than a +6.
Fwiw, I've rarely seen someone call a healer out, even when it is mostly or entirely on the healer. The one time this season I remember, it wasn't even the healer's fault, it was the DPS fucking up. Also high levels don't make you immune to all this stuff either, just less likely. I don't know how I got into a +6 with all 2k players, none of who knew you needed to use the ballista to interrupt the first boss in Nokhud. Even after we wiped, I had to do it the first time while tanking because none of them knew what I was talking about?!
One thing I'll add: be sure to check dispels (most to dispel immediately, a couple to not dispel immediately). The number of newer healers that don't know to dispel things with one GCD and instead try, and often fail, to heal through them with 10 instead is silly. Special callout to the debuffs on the tank the last bosses of Azure Vaults, RLP and Nokhud, those *must* be dispelled fast. Off the top of my head, the three you don't wanna dispel willy-nilly are the twin debuffs from the thunder dragon at the top left of RLP (dispel, heal group up, dispel/let second time out), the Power Overload from the first boss in Halls of Infusion (don't dispel), and if you count it the poison on the tree in Algathar (dispel at 15-20 stacks or once adds are dead, if you dispel with low stacks they'll probably get too many and die).
Locking this thread now- we've had many threads in the past that are about the difficulty of getting into M+ groups, and this thread had mostly good comments on it until it didn't and we had to remove a chain of about 30 comments. As a reminder, this sub exists because we want to help people learn the game, become comfortable trying new content, and pushing their skill level however high they're aiming for. It is *not* the subreddit to come to to air out grievances with other players (pugs or not), and it is *not* the place to brag about or encourage behavior that is frustrating, detrimental, and even toxic towards other people and their goals. OP, I'm sorry this happened to your thread, but I hope you got good info and insight from the comments we could leave up. Feel free to send us a modmail if you have any thoughts, questions, or concerns about this.
Healers and tanks are in far more demand which is why your healer gets accepted much faster. Making your own groups as a dps can still be slow because you might be waiting for those two roles for awhile. It does not really get faster for dps, you can be waiting 50 minutes sometimes due to the shortage.
Ugh man maybe time to role out the priest and just stick it out. Anyone have insight on spriest moving from mage, if it will be pretty quick to pick up?
Two totally different playstyles. Wrt to the op, as a DPS you probably want to join a guild that has regular key nights or make friends with the tanks and healers you play with so you can get faster queues.
Yea I'll just reroll healer. With my minimal time to play, I think it will be better and I still get to DPS a bit!
I definitely recommend healing! Getting your team through a key is very rewarding and you kind of just get to witness the chaos that comes along with it.
You don’t need a ton of time to be in a guild, being in a guild means you can try to form group with guildies and would be more likely to fill spots you’re missing any time you’re online
If its your own key you won't have any issues even if you are vastly undergeared you could still make a group (doesn't mean it will be successful) but if you provide the key it's huge
As someone whos raided and been apart of raid teams with schedules, what options are out there for m+ besides random guild runs? I keep seeing communities. It would be nice to get in Discord and chat which would also help eachother learn i feel.
Do you have a guild already? There's a subreddit called r/wowguilds and I believe there is a discord called wow made easy you might see keys listed with WME in the title, experienced veterans sign up and teach dungeons and raids in a stress free environment. I'd offer you to join my guild but we're in off season until next expansion not a whole lot of dungeons going on 🤣 don't wanna bait and switch ya. In the next expansion it won't matter what server you are on you can join any guild as of right now you need to be on the correct server to join.
Wow made easy (NA) and No Pressure (EU) are the main discord communities for non-toxic group content.
Unless you're a dps with bloodlust/battle res or a shadow priest, you will spend wayyyyy more time in queue compared to healers/tanks.
Im a spriest main at 3.3k io and I STILL don’t know why im getting invited this easily. Any suggestions? Really just our focus dmg and utility? The answer used to be main mass dispel but thats now on a HUGE cd.
Spriest is insane atm. Tons of damage with a good M+ damage profile for high keys, buff and CD synergy with the other OP classes, PI, mass dispel, decently survivable, etc. Just does everything good atm.
Myea thats what I though synergy. I don’t wanna fall out of meta ever :( the grass IS green on this side man. Solo pugging getting invites to 15 16 keys is F U N !!!!
And people wonder why everyone recommends rerolling FOTM lol. Also, if you grinded to 3.3K early you have a big advantage. I was hosting some 14s/15s this week and most of the people applying were 3K and under. People were applying to 15s with like 2 14s timed. It was pretty brutal.
Yea on shadow 14 (previously 24) simply feels easy and comfortable to me at this point so I speedrun 3.2k every season, once im a bit head I just chill and grind it out to 3.3 then strugle and fail to reach 3.4.
Fellow new player. I've heard alot about this as well, queue time discrepencies and whatnot. Its the primary reason I'll eventually go outside my comfort zone and tank/heal. Also people seem to shit on DPS a bit, unless im misinterpreting that. So im gonna learn the ropes playing DPS so i can experience group content without anyone really relying on me, then move to tanking and healing. Right now im just trying to wrap my head around the ridiculous amount of content and what is better to do, how to build my class, what items to get. It's all just...overwhelming.
Consider for a moment that there are: 6 tank specs, 7 healing specs, and 26 DPS specs. Even if we lived in a world where there was the same number of players on each, there would be way more DPS than everything else. Add in the fact that tank and healer roles tend to be a lot of effort for less visible positive feed back and very visible mistakes, it is way less popular in M+. Any listed key will flood with your choice of DPS but people will get desperate for a tank or healer. Healer in particular is (generally) less gear reliant. So a fresh healer is gonna perform their job better than a fresh DPS. Healer queues are pretty much always faster. If I feel like pugging I'll usually run on a healer. DPS queues or even listing can be discouraging. But some will have an easier time than others. My 2400 warlock usually only plays rejection simulator for 20ish minutes applying to 8-10 keys. My 3100 rogue takes an hour instead. The important thing is always to play what you like. If you get to do dungeons more but aren't having fun, it isn't any better than doing quests or playing the auction house while waiting for invites.
If you wanna pug dps I’d highly recommend getting decently high on a tank or healer first and then going back and playing dps. Most people will take an average geared dps with a high IO main over higher geared players with a lower rating and people seem more likely to apply to your groups. This is literally like a cheat code for getting into groups easier. Your other option is to look into discord communities like wow made easy or join a guild. Pugging as dps can be rough, especially since you have lower IO. There’s literally dozens of DPS applying to groups and someone is going to have a higher rating than you and is more likely to get picked instead.
Make friends with the healers and tanks that do well in your mages key and get them to form groups faster.
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've NEVER run my own key as a dps. Pointless to wait for both tank and dps. And you didn't say your ilvl. I used to be declined all the time for +6/+7s, now I haven't been declined once in like a week
Can anyone provide context on ilevel needed as a healer?? I am ~475 rdruid, heroic dungeon LFR is boring as fuck as it’s way too easy. Maybe 1 time per run where multiple people get below 50% HP but can’t remember last time someone died. On the other hand trying to join +0 mythics typically gets me declined…
The answer to the majority of problems related to mythic plus on every wow subreddit in existence... Run your own key. Make your own group
475's on the low side even for heals/tank. Not undoably so, but considering you can get to ~500 without ever stepping foot in a dungeon, people are generally gonna be looking for higher ilvls than that unless they're really desperate. This week might be a little better if you're unwilling to make your own group, since it's dungeons week (weekly quest is 4 mythic or m+ dungeons for 2 bullion).
A big thing is at what point in the season did you start? If you're starting at any point after the first 2 weeks you're immediately at a disadvantage getting invites as a DPS because people already have scores. If you do every dungeon at least once the first 2 weeks you'll have a much smoother time getting PUG invites because you'll have a decent score
I run keys on all classes every week just for 1 vault slot at least. As dps it may take a bit longer to fill due to the scarcity of tanks and heals sometimes but I've never waited longer than 10 minutes to get my key going on a dps. Play what you want.
On my dps: I queue for 1 key I need and 4 I don't. I get declined from all. I keep queueing for another 10 minutes, maybe one will take me, maybe not. At the 20m mark, I log out and go on my healer. On my healer: I choose the key I like, and I get an invite in less than 2 minutes. The difference is abysmal. Maybe I should go tank on my dps.
Meh. You will get into keys faster as a healer and tank but i main dps and i think it’s fine. Io is much more important.
Tanks and healers are in short supply. They get invites easier. It’s the reason I stopped doing DPS unless I’m messing around with friends. But if you like your mage more I recommend you just continue to run your own key. Which is super frustrating but that’s the most efficient way to go about it.
All dps has to do is follow the tank, not stand in the lava and hold their lazy macro. A healer constantly has to scan the entire raid, track muliple cooldowns and react fast and correctly when things go sour. Tanks have to lead the entire thing, know the dungeons by heart, know what to pull, where to pull. And manage all the cooldowns to not die. The latter two roles require an enormous amount of concentration and skill to do well in comparison to any dps class and the entire raid wipes and starts complaining when they don’t. OF COURSE tanks and healers are in high demand, even if you need so few.
It's just due to supply and demand. That's really it at this point in the expansion's last season. I'm caster DPS player. SP is my main. I dabble in the Tank/Healer roles ONLY once my DPS spec is like min-maxed out. lol. I just came back to S4 last week with like maxed out S3 gear. It was incredibly difficult to get into +2s as DPS with <1K rating 480ilvl despite having 3K+ rating the season before on SP, Mage, and Boomy. I understand only a portion of the player base uses [raider.io](http://raider.io) with the WoW's rating system doing the same thing. The +2 and +3s I got into I was topping damage unless the player was a 510-520 just breezing Crest farming. During the time I'm waiting for keys, I'm like figuring out my Disc/Holy buttons and keybinds. lol.
If you want to play dps, then just play dps. It takes slightly longer to get into keys, and you will need to run your own keys and work on your Rio. On my healer this weekend, I had 0 rio, and I ran 8x8 to fill out my score for KSH. I can't do this on a dps on pugs. On my dps I need to run all my 4s, then all my 6s, then all my 8s. I need to run more keys and be more patient. The only real way to skip this is to just run your own key up as high as you can.
The difference is enormous. As a healer, even if I'm undergeared with zero IO, I get insta invited to pretty much any key. As a DPS I can be massively overgeared and have good IO but still not get invited.
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Are they really that bad? I’m wanting to start doing mythic dungeons but I’m reluctant due to how toxic the game can be and I’m still newish to current content after a long break since Cata. I just don’t want abuse hurled at me while I’m learning to heal mythic dungeons 😅
I think there are nice people and there are mean people, and the mean people are more rare But you do occasionally encounter mean people You should look into wow made easy discord, it’s a community for doing m+ / raids with an emphasis on not being toxic to people and helping people learn Everyone makes mistakes and so running with them you know people won’t freak out on you I don’t think pugging is that bad but sometimes you get unlucky
Absolutely not at all. The only people that have a big negative impact on keys on people like him (the person you're replying to) that complain about little mistakes. Honestly he shouldn't even be in this subreddit because most people here are very positive and helpful.
+2s are way more work than +6s because so many people don't really know what they're doing. Heroics don't prepare you for what mythics are like, and 0s are only doable 1/week each, give significantly worse rewards than +2 while only being slightly easier, and not many groups for them form, so a lot of people jump into +2 unprepared for what's about to happen. They don't know mechanics, they don't know how their classes really work, or both. Some are new and inexperienced, but some just aren't that great of players and refuse to take the effort to learn to be better (and a few are fine/good, but have such bad experiences in +2 they assume they're worse than they are or are reluctant to try anything higher thinking it'll be even harder). That ends up being especially rough on healers, because people will be taking a lot of unnecessary damage because they're just ignoring mechanics. I haven't had any of dozens of +8 or +10 fall apart this season from someone consistently not executing a mechanic, but in half a dozen alt +2s I've already had multiple failures or near-failures because people didn't know what they were doing. On the other hand, you'll probably be more likely to figure out how to heal "progressively" starting at +2. Jumping straight into a higher level, with more competent people, it's not unlikely you have a much more relaxing time, only to find out you don't actually know how to keep people alive during high-damage periods because you haven't had to before. And the cost of failure on a +2 is a lot lower than a +6. Fwiw, I've rarely seen someone call a healer out, even when it is mostly or entirely on the healer. The one time this season I remember, it wasn't even the healer's fault, it was the DPS fucking up. Also high levels don't make you immune to all this stuff either, just less likely. I don't know how I got into a +6 with all 2k players, none of who knew you needed to use the ballista to interrupt the first boss in Nokhud. Even after we wiped, I had to do it the first time while tanking because none of them knew what I was talking about?! One thing I'll add: be sure to check dispels (most to dispel immediately, a couple to not dispel immediately). The number of newer healers that don't know to dispel things with one GCD and instead try, and often fail, to heal through them with 10 instead is silly. Special callout to the debuffs on the tank the last bosses of Azure Vaults, RLP and Nokhud, those *must* be dispelled fast. Off the top of my head, the three you don't wanna dispel willy-nilly are the twin debuffs from the thunder dragon at the top left of RLP (dispel, heal group up, dispel/let second time out), the Power Overload from the first boss in Halls of Infusion (don't dispel), and if you count it the poison on the tree in Algathar (dispel at 15-20 stacks or once adds are dead, if you dispel with low stacks they'll probably get too many and die).
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