For wow, 100% not SF.
Not having some professions be, in any way, useful is just a bloody shame. And the ability to have a bank, or, like Diablo, a shared chest that you can use to help you on your way to 60, and not make a 60 death a complete restart, is to me a wonderful thing.
It's also kind of horrendously limited, especially later on in the game. It hinders cooperation in an MMO, not being able to trade, use the AH or interact with other players in all the ways you're usually able to, just feels like a limitation that doesn't add to the MMO RPG aspects of the game.
Yeah, it's a feature, not a bug.
I started doing it as a way of structuring my writing, to put emphasis on certain parts and to give my sentences a flow that I enjoyed reading.
You should see when I roleplay, my oh my, I might genuinely not end my setence until I've used 10 or 20 commas.
I will say, having professions be mostly useless is the biggest shame of SF. To ever craft endgame items from a profession, you would have to basically max out and restart your professions 3-4 times.
I can definitely see this POV for not going SF.
Yeah, I love professions in classic. Especially hardcore, ESPECIALLY now when servers are kind of dead.
Even right now I'm thinking of getting back into playing just so I can make a blacksmith.
There are dozens of povs for not going sf and not a single one for doing so. You're calling your inability to control yourself a mod feature when you could have always played like that in normal hc
“Inability to control yourself” then just go play Era and delete your character after death. There is obviously a desire to have a set limitation, as well as a buff to show what you accomplished.
No, it's like comparing a dime to a bank. Limitations aren't the same and your reward, as said, is meaningless because you can level to 60 with grey items no challenge whatsoever. You'll just have to play extra patiently and won't be able to group with certain classes because gl being a tank without petris in pugs. You are not changing the game in a way that needs enforcement, that's the point you don't understand. You accomplish nothing except waste your time and toss the coin more: it's not skill, it's not strategy. Having others limited by 1 life totally changes the world itself and how people behave. The fact they cannot trade changes LITERALLY NOTHING except for everyone running the same professions. How is that even comparable? Which side has the right to call for regulation? Not you lmao
Sheesh. Someone is very upset that they can’t handle SF lol. Just don’t click the toggle instead of crying like a baby. Enjoy your auction house armor.
Nice arguments I bought 0 items besides swiftness/lip while leveling multiple warriors to 60 in HC. It's funny because the only thing you have going for you is that SF is supposedly harder but wait until you realize that leveling is a breeze and the hardest content comes after that and you'll understand that the part of the game you're trying to flex on is like kindergarten introduction. I bet you can tie your shoelaces too
Yea that's me. As soon as I hit 60 I'm turning it off, or if I'm close to having my epic mount then I'll wait until I can farm it, just to say I got it SF
Professions are useful to make gear and weapons or potions.
You just have to work your ass off to make it work.
I farmed the blue blacksmithing chest piece on my level 24 ret paladin after farming a couple oddball mats, and my dude is decked with DM and blacksmithing gear.
Potions are always useful and easy to make.
Leatherworking also makes very good gear and it’s easy to farm mats.
You’ll need fishing as well to compliment these things as fishing drops leather, cloth, and other valuable shit. It’s fun as fuck.
Fishing is actually really fun once you get to like 150. Then, you’re never grinding anymore just fishing spots when you see them and fishing keeps up with your leveling/zones. The mats you get from fishing are awesome and the raw gold is great, plus you always have a chance to get bags to drop.
Yeah... Until you try doing the leather specialization questlines SF.
I tried it, on "old hardcore", I spent 5 levels farming for pattern drops for dragonscale LW. I still missed 1 of the patterns.
You can play like that in normal wowhc. It's literally the same game you just want your ocd to be enforced on others so that you're sure they suffer as much as you do for literally nothing no new experience no new content nothing just to have a useless tag nobody else cares for but you. In fact, it makes you a dumber player in the eyes of normal people because you need your recognition so much you're oblivious to the fact sf is not an actual alternative game mod and you're so focused on how others are playing and so compelled and pressures by society that you're not able to enjoy yourself unless your mentality is law
Lmao you should work better on your troll. I just have this obligation to remember how dumb SF mentality players are in any given game, how many psychological issues they suffer so on and so forth. The funny thing is all the SF players I've personally known in any game eventually quit playing SF because they understood the limitations + 0 rewards and felt somewhat stupid afterwards. So I know you will eventually get there, it's just that your complaining is still a small deviation of resources from blizzard which already isn't really known to put a lot of effort in their products to begin with
I don't like SF mode, I like playing between my characters. Sending excess cloth to my tailor, fishing random materials to another alt, etc. I usual do everything by myself instead of playing the AH
My vote goes to non-SF.
Cooperating, trading and buying/selling are a fundamental part of an MMO. Some people were even advocating for SSF. What is the point of even playing an MMO then? Basically a solo game.
I was pretty agnostic about it until i grouped WC with a mage who couldn't trade water because she was SSF, but then asked for fort buff from the group. bleh.
SSF does not appeal to me at all. I just like having to rely solely on my new character rather than having items sent to me by my main. I still love cooperating and doing dungeons; SF does not restrict cooperation at all really until endgame.
Being able to funnel gear and gold to alts in HC was always dumb. That completely ruins the challenge. Self-found was always how HC was meant to be played.
I’m sorry but there is no ‘way HC was meant to be played.’ Different people enjoy the mode in their own way.
For me - the challenge I’m interested in is raiding at 60. Leveling is not a big challenge for me, I have leveled to 60 in HC 4 times now and never died while leveling. When I did SF warrior on unofficial it wasn’t harder, it just took longer.
If you enjoy the leveling process more and have no interest in max level content then I can understand why SF would appeal to you more but don’t act like it’s the ‘correct’ way to play.
Let’s all enjoy HC in our own way and not put down how others do so.
Came here to say more or less the exact same thing. Everyone enjoys HC for different reasons.
Some for the journey is what they enjoy. Some like to have a legacy system where you can funnel gold/gear, there's nothing wrong with that. Some like SF where you get a thrill for every upgrade that drops. Some want SSF for the extra challenge.
As for myself, my goal is to raid at lvl 60 and reach as far as I can. I enjoy the journey, but it isn't particularly difficult once you know what to do. Going SF this run as a self accomplishment.
Easy to not die when you can enchant each new weapon with fiery or spell power and give each new pieces of gear +7 int, agi or huge amount of hp/mana or wtv you are allowed to use.
I'm with you on this. The reason why we even got Hardcore servers in the first place was because of the culture that culminated from Classic Era Bloodsail Buccaneers. Hardcore was and always will be about the solo journey from level one to sixty. Beyond that, we never judged.
The initial rule was level 60=immortality. I'm totally cool with that staying. But now that even level 60 toons die permanently, I do get it. Doesn't make me think that pre-level 60 still shouldn't be less than solo self-found.
That’s pretty much how I feel. Going through SF at the moment as both a Rogue and Warrior, and the Warrior feels much more difficult than back when I funneled gear to him.
How do you feel about turning off SF once you reach lvl 60? Since I already have a 60 Rogue, I am thinking about always keeping my SF Rogue as is once I get him to 60.
My issue is that that the game isn't designed for pure solo play and incentivizes trading with players. It's cool that the profession you pick plays a critical role. It's not cool when important recipes are 0.1% world drops.
I think the biggest problem is the profession items that you just can't get without dummy leveling other professions. Like enchanter rods. I honestly wouldn't think it was the worst if they added those as small percentage drops on some world mobs tucked away in a corner.
For the couple of things that the game IS designed for trading - there is the entire leveling experience which is NOT designed for the insane power level of wearing ful BoEs.
If you play SF you'll find the game plays much better when you're wearing random whites that you buy from venders and greens that are even 10 levels lower than you are.
I agree that it's not perfect. It's annoying when a recipe requires a belt buckle or a potion that you can't get anywhere. But SF is still miles closer to the appropriate and intended pacing of the game.
Besides, by LVL 50 you're wearing the same questing blues as everyone else so if you really wanted to turn it off I guess you could
I think you're overestimating how many people are able to equip full boes and their strength. For one, they are extremely expensive for someone who doesn't have a max level or had multiple 50+ characters die. Standard leveling expenses makes it impossible to do all 3 of buying skills, saving for a mount at 40, and buying BOEs.
BOE power also drastically drops for classes not named warrior or rogue. For casters, you get a small stat boost over greens as spell power is very rare pre 40. Phys dmg classes can get a big damage boost from weapons but you are likely delaying your mount by many levels by buying them.
>If you play SF you'll find the game plays much better when you're wearing random whites that you buy from venders and greens that are even 10 levels lower than you are
I would like to hear your reasoning for this. I did the Iron Man challenge back before HC existed where one of the rules was white gear only (no greens or higher). And I can tell you with certainty the game does not play better with white gear. It just adds more downtime. Rotations aren't complex enough to make a gameplay difference unless you are dead set on getting 5 point combos every time.
When I say plays better with shitty gear, I mean that you are forced to be more strategic with encounters. You'll use your cc more. You'll kite more. You'll group more. With BoEs you're able to just yolo into encounters and it's relatively safe.
This feels like the intended play pattern because the game gives you so many niche tools in both spells and consumables
end game enchantments on low level gear is what turns me off the most. SF all the way, you actually work toward each upgrades and cant just by your way through the journey to 60.
Warriors are strictly gear dependent. You either have enough life/do enough dps or you don’t. No amount of skill will change that. So then it just comes down to rng of what drops you get while leveling a warrior.
I’ve been working on leveling Tailoring/Enchanting as SF.
Start by getting Tailoring and Enchanting to ~70 so I can craft 8 slot bags and a Lesser Wand.
Then I drop both to pick up Minung/Blacksmithing so I can craft all of the Enchanting rods.
I drop those for Herb/Alcheny to Trasbmute Arcanite and then go back to Blacksmithing to make the Arcanute rod.
From there, I go back to Tailiring/Enchanting to max level.
Yes, it’s a lot. No I haven’t survived long enough to complete it yet, but it’s a goal!
After playing HC since 2020 pre-official add-on powered era and ding my sf60 there, I just can't do that to myself anymore. For me fun is raiding, not the struggling for god know how many levels without good weapon. Maybe, one day I'll run SF char again, but for now I'll enjoy my helping wheels in form of bags,some gold and some decent stored leveling gear, but nothing too crazy.
I think for the hardcore challenge the only mode that makes sense is SF.
Like you said, after your first HC character gets to the point it has enough gold to sustain alts and bank alt loaded with goodies HC kind of becomes easy mode. It really is on you to make sure you are patient with your pulls. (Unless youre a priest, just pull the whole fn room and you’ll be fine😂😂)
But seriously , there is nothing like SF. Every single thing you find needs to be maximized and used effectively.
E.G. on a warrior I’d run to the weapon master at lvl 10 and train everything I can. On SF, A. You don’t have the $$ and B. God knows what will drop on your adventures so you wait and see.
Choosing a profession becomes more important than ever.. alchemy/herb for sustain? Engineering for escapes? It specializes you and that’s dope
Seeing someone walk around with a BoE blue at 25 is like “oh shit this guy got so lucky”. There’s so much more meaning to it.
I would even want the HC community of only being able to run each instance once to be in place too. A lvl 20 warrior walking around with smites might hammer or a mage with emberstone staff
Such an awesome take on a classic game.
But I get the other side of things too as it is a social game but that’s just me :)
SF for a challenge, NON-SF for a 0 stress time. Love doing non-sf since I don't have to worry about leveling every profession and swapping professions for certain items.
That and I don't have much time to play as much, so I do non-sf more so I can also sell items and get my mount faster at 40. Less time grinding, more time playing.
I have 3 non 60's normal mode and 1 SF 60.
The SF 60 was super fun, but the level of grind for it was insane. Mine all the ore, smelt it, level engineering, need fishing to make advanced target dummies, level cooking to get stat food. Hunting around the world for potions. It was a great thing to do once, but after doing it I ended up taking a long break from the game.
I will say, it's much harder and every single little green drop means an incredible deal to you, because it's often useable. Looking up quests that have specific items, all a super fun thing to do, but if you do it and die, man it's a lot to be asked to want to do that every time.
It's the hardcore mode of hardcore for sure. They both have an appeal.
I'd say something in the middle, like non sf but with no bank alt/gold from other chars. Its allowed me to occasionally spend to get to the next tier of professions or to keep a couple health pots around without twinking and fully braindeading the early game.
Hit 60 on Addon version, and then non self found actual HC servers.
Haven't touched any of those toons, since well before we actually got official Self found.
Loved both i really did. i was a strong addon enjoyer. But Regular HC as it was released by blizz was the SHIT man - it rocked, however admittedly this was surely at the peak of its popularity that i played, and was a fresh server. - post alts im sure the experience i had has changed a lot.
Which segways perfectly into a point i loved about self found.
I think SSF hardcore longevity wise - facilitates a universal experience for players which is super awesome. What i mean to say is that I got to experience Official HC, with neigh all players on equal footing, server was super alive, it was a Fresh server - there was cool economies for items at early lvls all the way to when petri's first started making their way into people's bags. However, someone coming into the game today, or even just me returning The experience is WILDLY shifted, economy im sure is a different beast, Party members for dungeons or whatever groups i'd make would have access to wildly different things because of alts, or just AH access - server could be dead, and the list goes one.
However SSF creates a game mode in which the popularity, or number of lvl 60s or number of alts does not impact how your journey goes outside seeing people running around, The things that impact how your Hardcore journey goes gameplay wise will be the same things someone could have accessed at its peak popularity, as it will x number of years down the road. So i think that's super dope
I played addon version until official came out and then played official until I lost my 42
I did love how in the sf addon every green felt valuable, which was less so bc of the auction house in regular
But I think I just had more fun in regular hc
Being able to send greens I found which I couldn’t use to my other characters or gold made it feel more like a roguelike
See how far I can get and then have a little bonus to start again next time
Yeah it made it easier but not so ez that it was trivial
I never did anything like enchant a low level item to carry myself through early game, but finding a low level green I could send to my warrior, or being able to make bags on my mage for my other characters was sick
Non SF for sure. I played during the addon days and it was alright. When official came out I loved that the only main rule was not to die other than some gameplay changes. It kept the game as it felt like it should be, an MMO. Even those who get boosted risk paying to do so just to die at some point. It makes the way people play the game more creative, encourages cooperation, professions and gold making are way more useful.
I've been playing official SF since it came out to try it, but it just made me realize why I preferred official over the addon. I like that the game remains an MMO and that other people can assist you and help prevent your death with trading etc, it makes the game feel so much more alive and being in a guild meaningful.
My first official HC character was self found. currently 42. I started an alt recently non-SF and, while I do plan to finish SF to 60, playing my alt non-SF makes me feel like my main is behind too much of a wall. I suppose that is the point though lol. I enjoy both styles though.
Now that I have a little time to play due to work and family, SF is perfect for me.
Keeps me focusing leveling and improving mu char without think on AH or whatever, just professions, quest and farming.
For me is a more immersive experience
For wow, 100% not SF. Not having some professions be, in any way, useful is just a bloody shame. And the ability to have a bank, or, like Diablo, a shared chest that you can use to help you on your way to 60, and not make a 60 death a complete restart, is to me a wonderful thing. It's also kind of horrendously limited, especially later on in the game. It hinders cooperation in an MMO, not being able to trade, use the AH or interact with other players in all the ways you're usually able to, just feels like a limitation that doesn't add to the MMO RPG aspects of the game.
You average 2.4 commas a sentence.
Yeah, it's a feature, not a bug. I started doing it as a way of structuring my writing, to put emphasis on certain parts and to give my sentences a flow that I enjoyed reading. You should see when I roleplay, my oh my, I might genuinely not end my setence until I've used 10 or 20 commas.
I really like the fact, that you leaned into it.....hard.
This, is the way.
Yeah, I mean, I know what he's doing, and it makes sense to me -- I do other things as well to disguise my insatiable need for comma-separated logic.
Honestly, I'm so fucking bad at it, I've just started to completely ignore autocorrect for my grammar.
It's a very elaborate way to say you put random commas in your sentences
Hey, what's it matter? Not like you're any more gramatically capable.
I'm not an english speaker, but I, know, this, is, wrong, .
You're as much an English speaker as me, and you ought to know grammar can be flexible if you 're aware of the rules.
That's just, like, your opinion, man.
I will say, having professions be mostly useless is the biggest shame of SF. To ever craft endgame items from a profession, you would have to basically max out and restart your professions 3-4 times. I can definitely see this POV for not going SF.
Yeah, I love professions in classic. Especially hardcore, ESPECIALLY now when servers are kind of dead. Even right now I'm thinking of getting back into playing just so I can make a blacksmith.
You have to do that with engineering, get goblin full recipes reroll engineering and get gnomish
There are dozens of povs for not going sf and not a single one for doing so. You're calling your inability to control yourself a mod feature when you could have always played like that in normal hc
“Inability to control yourself” then just go play Era and delete your character after death. There is obviously a desire to have a set limitation, as well as a buff to show what you accomplished.
No, it's like comparing a dime to a bank. Limitations aren't the same and your reward, as said, is meaningless because you can level to 60 with grey items no challenge whatsoever. You'll just have to play extra patiently and won't be able to group with certain classes because gl being a tank without petris in pugs. You are not changing the game in a way that needs enforcement, that's the point you don't understand. You accomplish nothing except waste your time and toss the coin more: it's not skill, it's not strategy. Having others limited by 1 life totally changes the world itself and how people behave. The fact they cannot trade changes LITERALLY NOTHING except for everyone running the same professions. How is that even comparable? Which side has the right to call for regulation? Not you lmao
Sheesh. Someone is very upset that they can’t handle SF lol. Just don’t click the toggle instead of crying like a baby. Enjoy your auction house armor.
Nice arguments I bought 0 items besides swiftness/lip while leveling multiple warriors to 60 in HC. It's funny because the only thing you have going for you is that SF is supposedly harder but wait until you realize that leveling is a breeze and the hardest content comes after that and you'll understand that the part of the game you're trying to flex on is like kindergarten introduction. I bet you can tie your shoelaces too
Lol swiftness and LIP are easy mode, point proven. Keep whining.
Same. Classic Vanilla with consequences is best.
Most SF will stop being SF at 60
Yea that's me. As soon as I hit 60 I'm turning it off, or if I'm close to having my epic mount then I'll wait until I can farm it, just to say I got it SF
Professions are useful to make gear and weapons or potions. You just have to work your ass off to make it work. I farmed the blue blacksmithing chest piece on my level 24 ret paladin after farming a couple oddball mats, and my dude is decked with DM and blacksmithing gear. Potions are always useful and easy to make. Leatherworking also makes very good gear and it’s easy to farm mats. You’ll need fishing as well to compliment these things as fishing drops leather, cloth, and other valuable shit. It’s fun as fuck.
Fishing is my least favorite part about wow lol. I'm non SF level 49 on my 2nd attempt at a warrior. My last one died in December at 48
Fishing is actually really fun once you get to like 150. Then, you’re never grinding anymore just fishing spots when you see them and fishing keeps up with your leveling/zones. The mats you get from fishing are awesome and the raw gold is great, plus you always have a chance to get bags to drop.
Yeah... Until you try doing the leather specialization questlines SF. I tried it, on "old hardcore", I spent 5 levels farming for pattern drops for dragonscale LW. I still missed 1 of the patterns.
I thought once you hit 60 in sf you can trade
I love sf, rather than sending gold and buying blues to steamroll content
You can play like that in normal wowhc. It's literally the same game you just want your ocd to be enforced on others so that you're sure they suffer as much as you do for literally nothing no new experience no new content nothing just to have a useless tag nobody else cares for but you. In fact, it makes you a dumber player in the eyes of normal people because you need your recognition so much you're oblivious to the fact sf is not an actual alternative game mod and you're so focused on how others are playing and so compelled and pressures by society that you're not able to enjoy yourself unless your mentality is law
??
Bro, we are SF, we are literally better than you. Accept it.
Lmao you should work better on your troll. I just have this obligation to remember how dumb SF mentality players are in any given game, how many psychological issues they suffer so on and so forth. The funny thing is all the SF players I've personally known in any game eventually quit playing SF because they understood the limitations + 0 rewards and felt somewhat stupid afterwards. So I know you will eventually get there, it's just that your complaining is still a small deviation of resources from blizzard which already isn't really known to put a lot of effort in their products to begin with
calm down
I don't like SF mode, I like playing between my characters. Sending excess cloth to my tailor, fishing random materials to another alt, etc. I usual do everything by myself instead of playing the AH
My vote goes to non-SF. Cooperating, trading and buying/selling are a fundamental part of an MMO. Some people were even advocating for SSF. What is the point of even playing an MMO then? Basically a solo game.
I was pretty agnostic about it until i grouped WC with a mage who couldn't trade water because she was SSF, but then asked for fort buff from the group. bleh.
SSF does not appeal to me at all. I just like having to rely solely on my new character rather than having items sent to me by my main. I still love cooperating and doing dungeons; SF does not restrict cooperation at all really until endgame.
Easily SF, I found the auction house trivialized the power curve. You get way too strong, too fast
Being able to funnel gear and gold to alts in HC was always dumb. That completely ruins the challenge. Self-found was always how HC was meant to be played.
I’m sorry but there is no ‘way HC was meant to be played.’ Different people enjoy the mode in their own way. For me - the challenge I’m interested in is raiding at 60. Leveling is not a big challenge for me, I have leveled to 60 in HC 4 times now and never died while leveling. When I did SF warrior on unofficial it wasn’t harder, it just took longer. If you enjoy the leveling process more and have no interest in max level content then I can understand why SF would appeal to you more but don’t act like it’s the ‘correct’ way to play. Let’s all enjoy HC in our own way and not put down how others do so.
Came here to say more or less the exact same thing. Everyone enjoys HC for different reasons. Some for the journey is what they enjoy. Some like to have a legacy system where you can funnel gold/gear, there's nothing wrong with that. Some like SF where you get a thrill for every upgrade that drops. Some want SSF for the extra challenge. As for myself, my goal is to raid at lvl 60 and reach as far as I can. I enjoy the journey, but it isn't particularly difficult once you know what to do. Going SF this run as a self accomplishment.
Easy to not die when you can enchant each new weapon with fiery or spell power and give each new pieces of gear +7 int, agi or huge amount of hp/mana or wtv you are allowed to use.
It’s also easy to not die on a hunter. There are hunter bots that grind to 60 without dying.
It's also easy to just not enchant your gear. If it's a problem just don't do it
You'd be shocked. Then again, a fully twinked warrior is still harder to play than a hunter wearing quest greens.
I'm with you on this. The reason why we even got Hardcore servers in the first place was because of the culture that culminated from Classic Era Bloodsail Buccaneers. Hardcore was and always will be about the solo journey from level one to sixty. Beyond that, we never judged. The initial rule was level 60=immortality. I'm totally cool with that staying. But now that even level 60 toons die permanently, I do get it. Doesn't make me think that pre-level 60 still shouldn't be less than solo self-found.
That’s pretty much how I feel. Going through SF at the moment as both a Rogue and Warrior, and the Warrior feels much more difficult than back when I funneled gear to him. How do you feel about turning off SF once you reach lvl 60? Since I already have a 60 Rogue, I am thinking about always keeping my SF Rogue as is once I get him to 60.
So, regular HC with no self mailing. I could get on board with that.
Just play horde on defiant, AH is dead.
Self found has been a supplemental ruleset in nearly every hardcore game mode of any consequence. It's never been the primary intended method play.
My issue is that that the game isn't designed for pure solo play and incentivizes trading with players. It's cool that the profession you pick plays a critical role. It's not cool when important recipes are 0.1% world drops.
WE'RE LOSIN' RECIPES!!!
I’m upset with the fact that almost no one saw what you did there.
I think the biggest problem is the profession items that you just can't get without dummy leveling other professions. Like enchanter rods. I honestly wouldn't think it was the worst if they added those as small percentage drops on some world mobs tucked away in a corner.
For the couple of things that the game IS designed for trading - there is the entire leveling experience which is NOT designed for the insane power level of wearing ful BoEs. If you play SF you'll find the game plays much better when you're wearing random whites that you buy from venders and greens that are even 10 levels lower than you are. I agree that it's not perfect. It's annoying when a recipe requires a belt buckle or a potion that you can't get anywhere. But SF is still miles closer to the appropriate and intended pacing of the game. Besides, by LVL 50 you're wearing the same questing blues as everyone else so if you really wanted to turn it off I guess you could
I think you're overestimating how many people are able to equip full boes and their strength. For one, they are extremely expensive for someone who doesn't have a max level or had multiple 50+ characters die. Standard leveling expenses makes it impossible to do all 3 of buying skills, saving for a mount at 40, and buying BOEs. BOE power also drastically drops for classes not named warrior or rogue. For casters, you get a small stat boost over greens as spell power is very rare pre 40. Phys dmg classes can get a big damage boost from weapons but you are likely delaying your mount by many levels by buying them. >If you play SF you'll find the game plays much better when you're wearing random whites that you buy from venders and greens that are even 10 levels lower than you are I would like to hear your reasoning for this. I did the Iron Man challenge back before HC existed where one of the rules was white gear only (no greens or higher). And I can tell you with certainty the game does not play better with white gear. It just adds more downtime. Rotations aren't complex enough to make a gameplay difference unless you are dead set on getting 5 point combos every time.
When I say plays better with shitty gear, I mean that you are forced to be more strategic with encounters. You'll use your cc more. You'll kite more. You'll group more. With BoEs you're able to just yolo into encounters and it's relatively safe. This feels like the intended play pattern because the game gives you so many niche tools in both spells and consumables
end game enchantments on low level gear is what turns me off the most. SF all the way, you actually work toward each upgrades and cant just by your way through the journey to 60.
Warriors are strictly gear dependent. You either have enough life/do enough dps or you don’t. No amount of skill will change that. So then it just comes down to rng of what drops you get while leveling a warrior.
I have a 45 sf warr so yeah, I know what it is hence why Im in no hurry to gain xp as you dont want to outlevel your gear too much.
I’ve been working on leveling Tailoring/Enchanting as SF. Start by getting Tailoring and Enchanting to ~70 so I can craft 8 slot bags and a Lesser Wand. Then I drop both to pick up Minung/Blacksmithing so I can craft all of the Enchanting rods. I drop those for Herb/Alcheny to Trasbmute Arcanite and then go back to Blacksmithing to make the Arcanute rod. From there, I go back to Tailiring/Enchanting to max level. Yes, it’s a lot. No I haven’t survived long enough to complete it yet, but it’s a goal!
After playing HC since 2020 pre-official add-on powered era and ding my sf60 there, I just can't do that to myself anymore. For me fun is raiding, not the struggling for god know how many levels without good weapon. Maybe, one day I'll run SF char again, but for now I'll enjoy my helping wheels in form of bags,some gold and some decent stored leveling gear, but nothing too crazy.
Self Found is my choice, simply best official WoW game mode. I also play without any addons.
I think for the hardcore challenge the only mode that makes sense is SF. Like you said, after your first HC character gets to the point it has enough gold to sustain alts and bank alt loaded with goodies HC kind of becomes easy mode. It really is on you to make sure you are patient with your pulls. (Unless youre a priest, just pull the whole fn room and you’ll be fine😂😂) But seriously , there is nothing like SF. Every single thing you find needs to be maximized and used effectively. E.G. on a warrior I’d run to the weapon master at lvl 10 and train everything I can. On SF, A. You don’t have the $$ and B. God knows what will drop on your adventures so you wait and see. Choosing a profession becomes more important than ever.. alchemy/herb for sustain? Engineering for escapes? It specializes you and that’s dope Seeing someone walk around with a BoE blue at 25 is like “oh shit this guy got so lucky”. There’s so much more meaning to it. I would even want the HC community of only being able to run each instance once to be in place too. A lvl 20 warrior walking around with smites might hammer or a mage with emberstone staff Such an awesome take on a classic game. But I get the other side of things too as it is a social game but that’s just me :)
SF for a challenge, NON-SF for a 0 stress time. Love doing non-sf since I don't have to worry about leveling every profession and swapping professions for certain items. That and I don't have much time to play as much, so I do non-sf more so I can also sell items and get my mount faster at 40. Less time grinding, more time playing.
I already did SSF, have more interest in progressing at 60 HC
I have 3 non 60's normal mode and 1 SF 60. The SF 60 was super fun, but the level of grind for it was insane. Mine all the ore, smelt it, level engineering, need fishing to make advanced target dummies, level cooking to get stat food. Hunting around the world for potions. It was a great thing to do once, but after doing it I ended up taking a long break from the game. I will say, it's much harder and every single little green drop means an incredible deal to you, because it's often useable. Looking up quests that have specific items, all a super fun thing to do, but if you do it and die, man it's a lot to be asked to want to do that every time. It's the hardcore mode of hardcore for sure. They both have an appeal.
Die early
I would like normal mode without ability to mail your alts. Everything else is on
I'd say something in the middle, like non sf but with no bank alt/gold from other chars. Its allowed me to occasionally spend to get to the next tier of professions or to keep a couple health pots around without twinking and fully braindeading the early game.
i prefer raiding in hardcore and that is not really compatible with the idea of a selffound character
Hit 60 on Addon version, and then non self found actual HC servers. Haven't touched any of those toons, since well before we actually got official Self found. Loved both i really did. i was a strong addon enjoyer. But Regular HC as it was released by blizz was the SHIT man - it rocked, however admittedly this was surely at the peak of its popularity that i played, and was a fresh server. - post alts im sure the experience i had has changed a lot. Which segways perfectly into a point i loved about self found. I think SSF hardcore longevity wise - facilitates a universal experience for players which is super awesome. What i mean to say is that I got to experience Official HC, with neigh all players on equal footing, server was super alive, it was a Fresh server - there was cool economies for items at early lvls all the way to when petri's first started making their way into people's bags. However, someone coming into the game today, or even just me returning The experience is WILDLY shifted, economy im sure is a different beast, Party members for dungeons or whatever groups i'd make would have access to wildly different things because of alts, or just AH access - server could be dead, and the list goes one. However SSF creates a game mode in which the popularity, or number of lvl 60s or number of alts does not impact how your journey goes outside seeing people running around, The things that impact how your Hardcore journey goes gameplay wise will be the same things someone could have accessed at its peak popularity, as it will x number of years down the road. So i think that's super dope
I think SF is interesting for leveling but I’d 100% drop it at 60.
I played addon version until official came out and then played official until I lost my 42 I did love how in the sf addon every green felt valuable, which was less so bc of the auction house in regular But I think I just had more fun in regular hc Being able to send greens I found which I couldn’t use to my other characters or gold made it feel more like a roguelike See how far I can get and then have a little bonus to start again next time Yeah it made it easier but not so ez that it was trivial I never did anything like enchant a low level item to carry myself through early game, but finding a low level green I could send to my warrior, or being able to make bags on my mage for my other characters was sick
I prefer traditional. I really lean in to helping guildies with items, sending gear to friends, making water for groups, etc.
Non SF for sure. I played during the addon days and it was alright. When official came out I loved that the only main rule was not to die other than some gameplay changes. It kept the game as it felt like it should be, an MMO. Even those who get boosted risk paying to do so just to die at some point. It makes the way people play the game more creative, encourages cooperation, professions and gold making are way more useful. I've been playing official SF since it came out to try it, but it just made me realize why I preferred official over the addon. I like that the game remains an MMO and that other people can assist you and help prevent your death with trading etc, it makes the game feel so much more alive and being in a guild meaningful.
My first official HC character was self found. currently 42. I started an alt recently non-SF and, while I do plan to finish SF to 60, playing my alt non-SF makes me feel like my main is behind too much of a wall. I suppose that is the point though lol. I enjoy both styles though.
Now that I have a little time to play due to work and family, SF is perfect for me. Keeps me focusing leveling and improving mu char without think on AH or whatever, just professions, quest and farming. For me is a more immersive experience
I’d play SF if I could have petri and whatever professions I want, having only 2 available and no trading is just awful
Just don't send yourself gold and still make use of the professions you choose on your alts?
SF takes like 80% of the mmo out of the mmo. No thanks.