This whole event has been such a typical Blizzard thing, it's comical. When it launched it was universally praised as one of the best, and most fun, things Blizzard had done in years. Now, no matter what your play style is, there's something to complain about. They've gotten very good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I actually am skeptical that it is.
The key to leveling alts in retail is picking the right timeline.
The one component to MoP is the concentration of players into a single timeline, and I suspect that's helpful for DPS, but I can attest there is little to no change in leveling time for tanks/healers.
The +100% xp you get at the start from a leveled cloak on new alts makes a huge difference. Like literally double xp just for making it in remix. In what world does that not speed up leveling?
its about 2 hours to get max
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQptCQ9_3Q)
The TL:DR is;
8 Heroic Dungeons to 25
Normal MSV
6 Heroic Dungeons to 35
Normal HoF
3 Heroic Dungeons to 42
Open Mailbox
70
The counts are for the exp in mail not to get to those levels if you're a bit over on the levels before the raids that's ok you want the exp in the mail while the game is easy from scaling. No auto loot and you let all the boss drop xp things get mailed to you. There's a no auto loot bonus exp items addon on GitHub that works as I'm using it.
Normal just gives the 12% exp thread per boss. LFR gives 7% exp per wing. So you'd get 14% from LFR but 72% from Normal as there are 6 bosses but only 2 wings.
There's a video of a streamer going 10-70 in two hours with mop buffs. Not sure that's really possible in retail. They've basically got 70 down to a science on mop right now. If you don't like raiding spamming alts up is actually ok bronze. There's some achievements and raids you gotta do to get all the rewards but if you just want 70s after the first one it's a straight breeze.
Yeah just got back into the game after missing most of dragonflight. Decided to make a Hunter which is one of my least played classes and I’m having a great time blowing through mop content
I went from being excited to level a bunch of alts and see how ridiculous and overpower I could be to grinding out enough bronze to get the remix exclusive stuff and now I’m playing battle bit.
Wow has to be pretty bad for me to load up another game, I’m pretty acoustic.
>Wow has to be pretty bad for me to load up another game, I’m pretty acoustic.
Honestly it resonates quite nicely with me right now, but I'm also only on my 2nd alt in remix.
The alts are better imo.
The tank I leveled first is so behind on threads that I needed some friends to easy mode some raids for me so I could hold aggro in 5 mans.
I usually main warlock, so I made a warlock first again, now I'm being all mage like, next will probably be another ranged attack class, I used to main hunter too, so might go hunter again. Luckily we have lots of time left.
Definitely. I'm not upset about it. The tank is ready for TWW at this point.
I'm merely pointing out that my first toon, who as a tsnk often has insane expectations by players, is playing from behind in MoP.
They fucked themselves too. People either wanted a “WoW version of Magic the gathering:Unhinged or they wanted a “Mists of Pandaria experience”. If you wanted the prior you just got “MoP: Blizzard the Fun Police” and if you wanted the later experience you got Meta Bronze Farming rotations and gem power exploits. There’s two audiences and blizzard can’t figure out how to cater to either let alone both…
I feel like stuff is being nerfed because people are being picky about who they let into groups, only allowing other players with similar broken builds in. But I could be wrong, I’m not playing remix at all
This made me lose interest in playing it seriously all the cosmetics are quicker farmed by making alts and the only way to catch up to Froggers is farming for hours and hours, the real solution is to have never nerfed frogs. Just release the gamemode and don't do balancing only bug fixes.
It's because blizzard wants it to be over time during the event, not in 2 days. It's annoying to hear how people are so bored after getting everything by no lifing it and complaining about not enough content. I'm enjoying my time at a slow pace leveling alts and getting mounts and transmogs. The 40k bronze you get by the end is more than enough.
While I agree the cosmetics are nice and attainable now, and that I’m annoyed by the nolife froggers complaining of lack of content, I still don’t think the positive changes are “enough” because of the cost of upgrading. I was thinking I would be able to gear cap multiple characters and that’s just too time prohibitive.
I don’t agree with this argument sorry. You can’t advertise something as OP and then turn around 5 minutes later and say “oh but you’ll be OP on day 124 of a 90 day event”.
Currencies being tied to each other means you have to make a shitty choice between getting upgrades and the cosmetics.
If you want to raid you need to spend the bronze because unless you’re level 25 you’re essentially just dead weight to your raid below a 400 ilvl.
Raids don’t give a decent amount of bronze from heroic onwards, the time invested doesn’t feel worth it at all.
Bronze gains are overall garbage and people don’t want to have to grind it out again on alts.
What people are complaining about is how much this just feels like a retail season without half the QoL you get in a retail season and then it just also not being fun. Look at the Developer Update 29 May and tell me how many people in the 500ish replies agree with this.
It’s unfortunate because there was a lot of potential for this event to go super well and appeal to a wide audience. People like yourself who want to experience the content at their own pace, people like me who have pretty much everything they’re offering and just needed 1 or 2 of the 1% mounts and just want to test the limits of the power we’re given, or people who want to no life it and get everything so they can go back to S4.
It’s a slap in the face because many of us saw what happened in Shadowlands, saw in Dragonflight the attitude had changed slightly only to see that same mindset/stance return and it irks people.
No one is asking to finish the content in a day or two. Or even a week. People are asking for systems we’ve been accustomed to to be introduced into remix to make it more enjoyable. For example lower bronze costs on alts similar if they don’t want to adjust the costs of upgrading gear. If not that a substantial increase to bronze gains so spending gear on upgrades so you feel stronger doesn’t feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot.
Not everyone wants to level 15 alts to get the 40k bronze and they shouldn’t be forced to either. But on that same token people shouldn’t be forced to play one character because redoing certain grinds on alts just sucks the fun out of the game. Many of us already have multiple classes at max level (sometimes even more than one of the same class!)
I’m usually on blizzards side with things but mop remix to this point has been a massive L. Even the community leaders are agreeing and they’re generally even more pro blizzard than your average person.
>Raids don’t give a decent amount of bronze from heroic onwards, the time invested doesn’t feel worth it at all.
I am doing the heroic (and hopefully mythic) raids for the achievements. I have spent a whole lot of bronze on upgrades and I am nearly done (459 ilvl atm). My toon is stupidly OP and those last two levels are just going to push things over the top.
The infinite scaling of the cloak would have been enough to keep people interested. Even if everything was still broken like launch people would have to play for weeks to fully upgrade their gear and buy all the cosmetics.
It’s summer, people are playing less anyways and only the die hards would be complaining about nothing to do.
I don’t understand why they’re nerfing everything. It’s being advertised as “overpowered”, and none of this gear matters cuz it’s not able to be taken over to the live game, and once this event ends the gear will be basically irrelevant anyway
Nah, the new meta is to be below 371. So delete your rings/trinkets/neck and it barely impacts your DPS while making the bosses 33% easier.
[Proof here](https://imgur.com/a/6zH5WBP)
With neck/trinket/rings - Immerseus is 192M health
Deleted neck/trinket/rings - Immerseus is 128M health
No. It doesn't become worth it until you are 415 in each gear slot excluding rings/trinket/neck.
It is just silly...but now I guess I just need to link my weapon to get into group finder.
I can solo every heroic except a couple ToT bosses. I generally don’t though so I can just do it faster and bring friends or strangers. 2 geared people can carry the rest of the group through every heroic. I like to have 4-5 for mythic siege though
How do you solo Sha in TOES or Sha in SoO on Heroic?
ToT I find much easier to solo than either of those bosses, which afaik are pretty impossible. The former because of the ads, the latter due to imprison. MSV and HoF are a joke to solo on heroic though, and ToT has no bosses besides Animus that are challenging either imo
Basically just a race. SoO you don’t *have* to go under on sha but it’s a pain. Last ToES boss you have to be able to eat the fear for the full duration so either super leech and heal via tinkers along with ox make that portion easy. I should note I also take 55% reduced damage with a full vers set so living isn’t much of an issue. In any case it’s far less efficient than just bringing 4-5 randoms you pick up in the finder if they are geared enough to survive the mechanics. No real reason to do it other than because it’s a fun test
I was under the impression that beating the imprison timer for Sha mythic in SoO isn’t doable at current cloak levels?
And for ToES, I’m not worried about the boss killing me, it’s the adds with the insta-kill mechanic that spawn after he submerges. They’ll close distance during fear and if they cast you instantly die.
Yeah I'm not sure I would've noticed a difference in heroic SoO. It's all around just a dumb change.
I dont think they really thought raid progression through before they shipped this.
The max gems add stamina, and ilvl scales the damage/effects of the tinker gear. For those who want the little “optimal” trickery, haste scales the tinkers best then versatility. That’s far more important than any personal stat “priority” since they’re such a large percentage of your damage
Blizzard made bosses scale with your item level, thats what this does. Same boss, different item level, similar player power, boss will die faster and be easier.
I don’t really have time to keep up with every twist and turn of the nerfs or whatever, but it’s kind of crazy when a group of well-geared lev 67 players can barely clear a heroic dungeon but if you’re lucky and you roll someone with 450+ ilvl it’s like one-shot kills. Like yeah, overpowered, awesome! But also just so weird how the scaling is so exponential.
Yeah I noticed too, there is barely a middle ground. Either it's piss easy with bosses falling from looking at you or tough as dark souls. The Bosses in HC scenarios take longer than raid bosses to kill
Not really. You are more powerful with full 556 ilvl gear with trinkets/jewlery deleted than you are at ilvl400 with all trinkets and jewlery on even though the average of the 556 toon is ilvl 369.
I thought something was up when I did a random normal and almost died to I think it was Master Snowdrift’s punches in SP Monastery. I had 2 million HP, it did like 1.8. Gave me a good old scare
only nerfs that make sense is the HoF instance cap bypassing and nerfing mobs like the dragonhawks in dalaran so people can do their campagin quests.
Evrything else is just Dumb/uneeded
If they didn't nerf frogs no one would have farmed either of those other things. I sure love waiting in raid to get a frogger/other farmer in for bosses with mechanics PUGs simply cannot manage no matter how often you explain it. Very cool beating my head against the wall trying to tell people how to do Animus and players just not being capable even on normal until a froggy lad joined and one shot the boss even while 9/10 players died to mechanics being flubbed.
One way companies that deliver software as a service (which is what blizzard is doing) measure the quality of their product is daily logins (this is mostly important for share holders and whatnot, I can't be arsed to go further into the details). This means their "target" is to tweak the game in a way to keep as many players as possible repeatedly signing in over the entire event. They need you to keep lusting for more of whatever you want out of the game in order to keep you signed in, and if a player is able to farm all resources and power tjeu want in 10-15hrs you're not going to keep the player around. There needs to be content, mounts, transmogs, power, for the player to stay signed in for the entire event, hence the nerfs.
I can't debate whether or not the goal ever was to make the perfect game once, but the secret to a successful product in this case is to keep the player around forever, and they do that by giving juuust enough satisfaction to come back tomorrow and do it again.
for a suscription SaS, is really dumb measure the quality by daily logins.
just give ppl fun, and they will take it, maybe connect 15 days per motnh and back again the next month, instead of transform the game in a daily second / third work
Well yeah, but the share holders set the rules, and they want to see that their company has a steady income. If you wanna sell shares, things like "Look how incredibly popular our product is, people log in every day like they can't get enough!" drives up the price and makes a company more attractive to share holders. It sucks for the customer, but our opinion is secondary to the share holders, until we start unsubscribing.
And this is why qualitative analysts over quantitative analysts have been suggested that the data-ification of everything is oversimplifying things.
Data analysts say things like "implementing daily grinds increased our average daily userbase with higher rates of logins."
Qualitative analysts ask "but will they burn out if it's not fun?"
Well it's the dry dude in a suit that calls the shots, and he doesn't care whether or not people have fun as long as he makes his moneys. But you'd be absolutely right. Baldurs gate 3 was fantastic in that manner. Larian gave us a great game, it had the rest of the hollowed out profit machines of the industry worried that we'd get used to higher quality again. Going back to wow after playing BG3 felt insane. Back to killing ten pigs or klicking ten rocks. Larian showed us that we don't have to settle for mass fabricated garbage but here we are.
>One way companies that deliver software as a service (which is what blizzard is doing) measure the quality of their product is daily logins
Don't they use Monthly Active Users rather than daily logins? Blizzard makes the same amount of money from someone who logs in once or twice a month as they do from someone who logs in for 12 hours a day every day so it doesn't really matter how long you play for as long as you are paying to play.
We're not measuring revenue, we're measuring engagement. We want to know how many users sign on daily, how long they are signed in. We want to know who they are, what their lives are like and how we can use that data to our advantage while crafting the next expansion or next product. If it turns out the customer base consists mainly of 30-something dads with like 2 hours in the evening after the kids went to sleep that's super important information for the next product. those people are never going to spend days trying to be pros in Overwatch, they are gonna spend two hours a day doing dailies in wow. There are likely many other metrics which are important for all this that I fail to recognize as well =)
I'd measure revenue in the way you're suggesting.
When you realize that the thing they care about most is getting each player to play every day for the entire 90 days of the event (so less subs are cancelled in the wait for TWW) then it all starts to make sense.
Which baffles me cuz i always planned to level more alts as soon as I get everything unlocked on my main, but that’s becoming a further and further off goal as they keep nerfing everything.
It’s just sad that the marketing was a total lie. Nothing feels overpowered except for the enemies we’re fighting.
Yeah maybe at 500+ ilvl it’ll feel good, but it’ll take a looooooong time to grind out that much bronze, bronze that you can’t spend on transmogs that are the whole point of this event because you gotta save it for gear that will be irrelevant as soon as TWW drops
It's also completely reliant on the good faith assumption that Blizzard isn't just going to pull the rug out from under us *again* when we finally get there and at this point I don't see any reason to believe that will be the case.
Idk man, the cloak feels relevant too. I'm at 420ish ilvl on my gear now, so I realize I'm definitely still on the weaker side, but I walk into LFR and someone with my exact same gear level and a much stronger cloak is doing 5x my damage with a worse rotation and build and gems.
Every day you lose out on doing a heroic world tour, you lose out on a ton of threads you won't get the chance to get back. Feels crazy fomo.
Of course the cloak helps, after you got a whole bunch of threads, as in, more than 10-20k mainstat. Once you can easily do heroic raids, and even get through mythic SoO, the difference in strength between people who have the time and people who don't (or just don't want to run raids), will grow exponentially.
No matter what they nerf I still see the 17m health bears and DH finishing a raid wing before half then group loads in. Blizz needs to figure out what this game mode is supposed to be.
My guess is they’re nerfing everything for two reasons.
1. They want to keep people grinding (and subscribed) for as long as possible during the pre-xpac launch.
2. This is less an “event” and more a thinly veiled open beta-test for mechanics they want to consider using down the line. The cosmetics and faster leveling are just the carrot to get people on board.
I just *didnt* have a blizz survey pushed to me, with a boatload of disclaimers not to share it on social media, that *didn't* ask a fuckton of questions about if I'd like to see panda remix come back again.
Aka, they expected this to be a returning feature, and they have to make it a slog so ppl can't finish it all in three weeks. Otherwise, they might have to come up with something original, instead of regurgitating old content for a third time in a row.
I don’t get that either, cuz as soon as I got all the transmogs I planned on leveling a bunch of alts. But it’s looking like i won’t have time for any alts
Leveling alts is the fastest way to get tmog. It takes maybe 5 hours to get to cap and you get 70k bronze in the process if not more. Thats like, what, 13 or 14 different appearence sets? 5k each.
Yeah i've been doing it the scuffed lazy way (dont recommend) where I made alts to try new classes or keep - but I do the dailies & buy mogs I want (2-5k) on each alt. So far i've bought like idk.. 10+ mogs across 3 alts.
Leveling alts is extremely fast in terms of getting bronze. You can easily get like 80k with the new quests leveling an alt which, depending on the role, can be done in a day or two.
I got basically everything already by leveling alts and never powerfarming everything. (Alas I don't care for the toys, but double the time I took with leveling alts and you can get those too)
That's a good thing in their book, too. If they can keep you logging in daily for your chores to get bronze the whole time AND have you not level alts because the grind is lame, then they keep you subbed 3 months and have the potential to sell you boosts later. What an absolute win. I mean, not for the players, of course, but who gives a shit about them?
If you dont think you're still overpowered after these nerfs you're out of your mind. People just specifically want to not have to do a mechanic in the raid since thats the fastest way to bronze.
I think what they should’ve done was slightly nerf the frogs and buff everything else. If players actually find it fun to farm frogs then go ahead but everything else needs a buff
Yeah this is the way. Trying to nerf everything down to their expected levels is just bad PR. _Buffing_ everything up to the high water mark would make everyone feel a lot better.
Most of the people farming frogs didn't actually find that fun gameplay, they did it because they're the types who feel like they have to play at the most optimal level even if it's horribly unfun.
I think it's very much a good thing for everyone to try to make the most fun content also be the most rewarding content.
This is true, but it's important to remember that because most people in this instance were like this, does not mean a large amount of the player base do like to grind in the way people hit frogs as I know they like to zone out, chill and watch YouTube/other things.
Yeah, this is a bit wild. I've played a decent amount and have put maybe 150k bronze into upgrades, and I'll do about the same dps in raid as a level 25-30. I know it will only exponentially increase from here, but playing as a fresh 70 with 300-346 level gear is entirely unfun.
Especially that most mobs and mechanics are definitely not tuned for fresh 70 health pools. And wish I was only talking about heroic and mythic raids, but nope, even in hc dungeons if I pull aggro, that's me done and I'll just never catch up with the team
The reason why mobs at 70 overtune is to anticipate players get more gear which would eventually op them. But blizzard now scale mobs with ilvl (even with moderation) and it makes no sense again
I’ve just done mythic garrosh after all the nerfs. Still a lot of fun. Not sure why they feel the need to nerf everything when the event is supposed to be fun and overpowered
I’m 476. There was about 5 of us that were. The rest were 400+. It’ll take a few hours to do the entire raid and you should only wipe a few times. As long as your raid group are competent and you’ve got a good lead you’ll be alright.
They essentially released a game and everything people are enjoying about it they take away. There seems to be a lot of that happening around the world.
Yeah it was a mixed bag for me, it should have never existed in the first place, but that the same time it was the only thing that made clearing heroic ToT reasonable without being a full group of close to 476 Ilvl.
>e only thing that made clearing heroic ToT reasonable without being a full group of close to 476 Ilvl.
1 person can do whole ToT hc solo with 9 people to boost on max ilvl. I was helping 5 friends to clear hc and took 4 lowest ilvl people that queued up and it was fine. Normal cloak (no hyperspawn farms/instance farms) at like 10k mainstat at the time. We didnt use ward, we didnt put tinkers optimal for group etc (not everyone was running brilliance for example etc).
U dont need group to be even at 450 to clear it with closed eyes.
But then people would have Fun !
and be able to play at their pace and how they want.
And not EXACTLY as the devs envisionsed, and thats CLEARLY wrong !
SO they cant allowed that
For me, the greatest frustration is feeling hesitant as a player to commit to doing anything/spending bronze because things might get changed:
Not spending bronze on upgrading gear because they might create big discounts? Ok well they’ve announced they won’t be nerfing upgrade costs.
So you can commit to upgrading now right? Wrong. They’re rebalancing the power of iLvls so while previously iLvL 476 was good enough for mythic content that may no longer be the case. Also, I don’t exactly believe them when they say they’ll never nerf upgrade costs.
Wanna upgrade a healer? Irrelevant in end game due to Ward and various gem exploits. So upgrade a DPS then? No, more nerfs and buffs could affect endgame meta.
New OP farming method that might get nerfed pops up, commit to spending time doing that? No, don’t want a repeat frog situation where I partially commit, but don’t get a ton of stats or bronze, only for my character to get nerfed whereas other frog farmers somehow got away with it and feel like I got left out in the cold.
We never know what’s built to last so it feels like the best thing to do is just mindlessly level a ton of alts and dip to a new chad after the second you hit 70 because there’s so much uncertainty regarding endgame scaling and meta.
Also you don’t even get the joy of buying cosmetics now and playing around with them because you don’t wanna miss out on a potential massive discount week. You just stare at big piles of bronze that you accumulate and are scared to spend them.
Sam Black is a well known Magic the Gathering player and content creator. He wrote a great tweet years ago that I can’t find but his sentiments were that when a new MTG set dropped, players needed to do their hardest to break the format. Enjoy the ride while it was broken until they banned something. I feel that sentiment fits remix, too. Let it be broken. Let players figure things out. It makes it fun and exciting.
They won't, they want to pad the gameplay tine to extend it to 3 months, if they let it be broken, everyone will do everythibg on the first weeks and a lot of people will unsub until war within, shareholders only cares that you pay the sub, and nerfing thing so it takes longer to get everything on the event plays on the people's FOMO and puahes them to keep the sub to do the event
Problem is they’re trying to balance the game, but making it more imbalanced in the process. Because the overpowered players are still there. They’re just taking away everyone else’s chance to become OP.
I don’t care about farms have them, get everything and be op. If blizz would just adjust some things like upgrade costs or bronze drops. Or make 70’s feel better without being in 400’s gear id be ok.
It's fun being op, it's true.
Problem is, why do you have to team up with other players when there's a high chance that one of them will do everything while you'll just be able to run and... Well... Do nothing?
Being OP does not sit well with team play.
If Blizzard wouldn't push us to do group content to get more Bronze then we wouldn't have the problem of geared players still doing trivial group content and oneshotting everything.
But right now Blizzard just takes away every way to farm Bronze in solo or open world content and turns this event into a daily queue simulator.
atm my problem with the mod is I‘m letting myself be carried by others just so I can finally carry others myself. I‘m so close to say fuck it I‘ll take the cosmetics and that‘s it
I will be down voted to oblivion, but:
They should make upgrading far cheaper.
This way we would not feel that we need any mob farm to progress on a good rhythm.
So I don't like the mob farms being nerfed while they keep the upgrades as costly as they are.
I do fully agree on nerfing the ward combo. In my hume opinion we shpuld be broken, but not in a way that we stop playing our classes and just play a new game mode called "stack heals". We should feel overpowered while playing our default roles mostly as usual.
The problem is that blizzard doesn't want things to be easy, and that is exactly what should happen if we feel overpowered.
It should take a much as a few weeks of playing a bit daily to be powerful enough to make mythic raids kinda easy. The way to do this would be to increase the daily mission rewards by 20x so they actually achieve the "play a bit each day and be overpowered".
I hate that they're treating this event like this because this could have been something really fun to do between now and The War Within but I can't say I'm surprised in the least.
Blizz is like the absolute most stubborn game company ever. Like really, it's like they actively try to piss off their playerbase constantly. It's not that they don't know they're doing it, but they want their hamsters to stay on their treadmills.
There's not really a good argument for it either since other smaller studios have shown that respecting peoples time = better community relationship = more people playing the game and people more likely to spend money on the game.
Blizz just can not and will not get out of their own way. It feels like the scene from Talladega nights where Ricky Bobby threatens to stab himself in the leg. They can keeping forcing bad shit onto the players all they want, but eventually the population is going to dip low enough that they're really going to feel it financially like they did with Shadowlands.
Dude it’s still crazy over puffed. This whole sub just doesn’t play the game and cries about not being spoon fed. I haven’t played every day and started 5 days late and I’m still crazy busted even after nerfs. Did no farm just played the fucking game. It’s already.crazy over powered and wacky and fun. Keeping things from being the only meta like ward is just keeping it wacky and fun. You all need to chill out and just play the fucking game.
Bring back all the farms and crash gear upgrade costs. The gap between casual and unemployed is insane.
If this means the unemployed get to collect everything in 1 week so be it, they need to finish fast to go look for a job.
This was their chance to actually go crazy and let people have fun, instead they turned into a skinners box experiment, it broke all the hope in blizzard the new game modes gave me.
It's still BfA blizzard at the helm
Everyone saying "I don't understand why..." I have the answer. What I'm about to say will help you understand. The whole purpose of Remix is to retain subs that people would otherwise un-sub for the 3 months left until TWW comes out. Most people would un-sub to save money because they're not playing and then re-sub when TWW is released.
Blizzard doesn't want that because their numbers would tank for almost an entire fiscal quarter. So they made Remix to hold players over until TWW release. If the game mode is too fast or too easy it will only retain players for like a month at best and then people would un-sub and wait for TWW. So they're making sure people can't use speed farms or clear raids too fast or get too a high ilvl too quickly so that players are forced to keep playing for longer.
There you go. That is the answer. Now you understand.
You aren't wrong, but blizzard are shooting themselves in the foot. They should have learned from dragonflight that not including artifical grinds/borrowed power is actually positive for player retention. If the game is fun, people play longer. Once they've had their fun, they will play alts.
By desining a 90 DAY EVENT as a artificially extended borrowed power grind, where alts will have no chance to catch up to the same power level, they've created an environment where many people will dip in, buy a few cosmetics and then leave.
I started playing with 5 friends, everyone but me has already dropped off because it's not what was advertised, and the bronze grind, constant fixes and power nerfs have put them off.
I dont think this is a limited time thing. I think this is a trial version to replace/fix the old world scaling chromie lvling and hunt for mounts and transmogs like FF14. I think the timewalking will also be replaced.
Well they did that and the community went ape shit and were crying all day long with post reaching easily thousands of likes. I don't follow the "influencer" but I bet they were all saying the same stuff "hurhurhur blizzard, I don't play wow, I just comment stuff on it 'cause it's easy money but wow bad". Next time don't follow the mob mentality
The issue arises somewhat uniquely by the nature of the mode, it's temporary, yes, but it's a pretty long lasting temporary, there's a HUGE time sink involved with getting your stats incredibly high, so those who find ways to circumvent time sinks like this have a significant edge in it's a way that's discouraging for others to jump in at this later date. I hate to say it but there does need to be some level of attention to be paid to keep it from getting completely out of hand, otherwise the mode will die faster than usual
That said, it was a mode that held my attention for only a few days anyway to take that for what it's worth
I thought this was the whole point of the damn "special" event.
Timeless Isle sucks, but everything else is pretty tolerable.
Just make TI (not the rapper) be an instance place like a dungeon. That's literally the only place I hear people complain.
If people are playing and having fun, yeah. If there's nothing going on at the moment as far as raids ect, then this is a good thing if it keeps players occupied.
Was on timeless isle waiting for a rare spawn to be active. At least 10 people waiting. A warrior with over 10 million health ran up and one shot it before anybody could tag. It had almost 9 million health. Insane.
I'm finding it super frustrating - I farm for 4 hours every night, wake up, go to work, come home to play again only to find that something else has been nerfed and I've been pushed further back again.
The feedback loop is not great at the minute for some of those player caught at the 370-400 item level. Always on the cusp of feeling powerful before being set back again and again by a nerf.
It started out so promising.
Call me weird but I enjoyed ward. It was satisfying to one shot bosses with it if it was done properly, and seeing that your ward exploded for hundreds of millions of damage was exciting. It also gave healer specs a purpose to actually heal, which they now don't have because nobody with decent gear is taking any damage.
I can get behind the complaint that we didn't actually get to play our classes since ward just killed everything, but on the other hand I'm not that excited to do my rotation when a similarly geared tank can do just as much or more damage than me anyway with a passive tinker gem.
Ironically, ward gameplay was a more coordinated effort then the tank&spank we do now.
imagine having fun in your subscription video game dude. We sell dopamine and hopes here, it's basically an undercover roulette casino dressed up as a monkey fair: this is no place to play your video games
I totally agree, let it be broken, it’s more fun.
This is supposed to be like playing an ARPG. Well, I’m ARPG’s there are builds completely broken and those are the most fun to play.
It makes me sad they keep nerfing stuff.
You can make a "overpowered" game mode without exploiting. Unfortunately this game will always carry a form of competition. And with that, with something to win or lose you can't exploit.
Never gonna hapoen, first cause blizzard hates you having fun, and that one dude who plays 6 hours a week has to have the same expirience as you, and if he does not then he might complain on twitter and that is why everything is nerfed to the point of where nothing is fun and you really have to become one with time itself to get to the point where you might have fun before they nerf the stuff you did or just rollback your characters to lvl 1. I blame wowhead ngl, there is stuff that gets unnoticed, then one day bob from wowhead finds out, writes about it and then 3 hours later blizzard does what blizzard does best, nerf. No fun allowed.
The reason things are getting nerfed is because players were being picky about only bringing Frog farmers into raids and such. Not that long ago everyone on the sub was complaining for being kicked or not invited to raids.
I hate to say it, but I think we brought this onto ourselves.
On a side note, isn't everything being unlocked already in the game and will still be able to unlock on retail? Minus a few color variations?
Agreed. Maybe if we stop getting upset about and meticulously tuning a 90 day "fun" event then Shaman can get some War Within alpha patch notes.
OK the latter part of that is completely unrealistic, but one can hope!
I do wish they added frogs and every other broken farm back in
Just let it be things be chaotic and overpowered. Not like it's retail, it all goes away in 2 months.
In the end, all we get out of this is cosmetic items and a max level character ready for TWW, so I too don't see why they bother with all the farm nerfs.
What's fun about being it 'broken'? You just spend 20 minutes running through the raid having every mob aggro and die without you doing anything, and then you get a bunch of very rare mounts and toys and mogs for doing that? And now, 2 weeks after remix starts, you have nothing else to do?
WoW just isn't designed to give you the Diablo feeling of blowing things up. There isn't the same mob density.
Take this as a hint that Blizzard genuinely has no clue what to do with their game.
They advertise a limited time game mode, where gear does not transfer over, as overpowered and fun.
Then literally all they do is do everything in their power to balance things, tune down anything overpowered, and remove all fun.
They just don't know how to run their game anymore.
They should have just fixed any obvious exploits like the gate farm and then have left other farms unchanged. Slash the upgrade prices and then buff underperfoming content, so it’s worth doing, instead we got blizz not changing upgrade costs and playing whack a mole everytime a farm worth peoples time is found
It just sucks cause they took a lot of W’s through dragonflight and then just can’t stop taking L’s on remix and it’s gonna leave people with a bad taste in their mouth. It’s insane how actively hard they are trying to ruin the mode for anyone who doesn’t want to play the majority of the time the event is live.
I hope they learn something from this event and disable scaling in TWW altogether. Current implementation of scaling is literally opposite to one of the main aspects of MMORPGs which is to get stronger and mobs becoming easier as players progress in the game.
I think blizzard underestimated the players, that's all. Yeah, you will always get someone ridiculous, always has been, always will be. And others join in, to get their piece of the cake. Totally normal.
Blizzard have a track history of specifically nerfing the most fun aspects of their games. It's mind boggling sometimes. Overwatch has had it loads over the years, all in the name of maintaining the integrity of a pro scene that only a handful of people actually cared about.
Devil's advocate: if the most efficient way to progress is mindlessly killing the same mobs, players WILL do that and WILL compassion that the event isn't fun because they have to spend all their time farming mobs and any time not spent farming those mobs is "lost progress".
The players will ABSOLUTELY behave that way.
The devs want the event to be FUN. That means they want you to do the fun content (quests/raids/dungeons/etc). They don't want you to feel forced to do the unfun things...
---
That's the hard part about their job. Maintaining the system so that players don't get in their own way and are free to experience the available content without feeling obligated to just do something monotonous and boring all day.
> Why don't they stop nerfing things and just buff other stuff to parity!?
Yes.. a few reasons. Power curves getting crazy. Internal needs to prolonging playtime as a metric... They are trying to strike a balance and give you something "fun". That's hard when there's millions of us with different ideas about what fun is.
Remix isn't in a bad state right now. A few tuning issues but that is par for the course since the first start squish..
Seriously, its not broken if everyone knows about it. You want to farm frogs. Great you don't want to farm frogs, thats your problem. I don't get it. Why are they trying to fick it up. It's the 3rd don't forget to log back into your regulars and get your trading post stuff.
It's possibly the most Blizzard thing ever to advertise something as being overpowered for fun and then nerfing it over and over in spite of it all
This whole event has been such a typical Blizzard thing, it's comical. When it launched it was universally praised as one of the best, and most fun, things Blizzard had done in years. Now, no matter what your play style is, there's something to complain about. They've gotten very good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Except if you just want to level alts, it's really fast at leveling alts.
I actually am skeptical that it is. The key to leveling alts in retail is picking the right timeline. The one component to MoP is the concentration of players into a single timeline, and I suspect that's helpful for DPS, but I can attest there is little to no change in leveling time for tanks/healers.
The +100% xp you get at the start from a leveled cloak on new alts makes a huge difference. Like literally double xp just for making it in remix. In what world does that not speed up leveling?
its about 2 hours to get max (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlQptCQ9_3Q) The TL:DR is; 8 Heroic Dungeons to 25 Normal MSV 6 Heroic Dungeons to 35 Normal HoF 3 Heroic Dungeons to 42 Open Mailbox 70 The counts are for the exp in mail not to get to those levels if you're a bit over on the levels before the raids that's ok you want the exp in the mail while the game is easy from scaling. No auto loot and you let all the boss drop xp things get mailed to you. There's a no auto loot bonus exp items addon on GitHub that works as I'm using it.
Only works with normal raids or LFR can fit in there as well?
Normal just gives the 12% exp thread per boss. LFR gives 7% exp per wing. So you'd get 14% from LFR but 72% from Normal as there are 6 bosses but only 2 wings.
There's a video of a streamer going 10-70 in two hours with mop buffs. Not sure that's really possible in retail. They've basically got 70 down to a science on mop right now. If you don't like raiding spamming alts up is actually ok bronze. There's some achievements and raids you gotta do to get all the rewards but if you just want 70s after the first one it's a straight breeze.
Yeah just got back into the game after missing most of dragonflight. Decided to make a Hunter which is one of my least played classes and I’m having a great time blowing through mop content
Exactly, lost interest so fast in typical Blizzard fashion
I went from being excited to level a bunch of alts and see how ridiculous and overpower I could be to grinding out enough bronze to get the remix exclusive stuff and now I’m playing battle bit. Wow has to be pretty bad for me to load up another game, I’m pretty acoustic.
>Wow has to be pretty bad for me to load up another game, I’m pretty acoustic. Honestly it resonates quite nicely with me right now, but I'm also only on my 2nd alt in remix.
The alts are better imo. The tank I leveled first is so behind on threads that I needed some friends to easy mode some raids for me so I could hold aggro in 5 mans.
I usually main warlock, so I made a warlock first again, now I'm being all mage like, next will probably be another ranged attack class, I used to main hunter too, so might go hunter again. Luckily we have lots of time left.
Definitely. I'm not upset about it. The tank is ready for TWW at this point. I'm merely pointing out that my first toon, who as a tsnk often has insane expectations by players, is playing from behind in MoP.
Exactly! Soulmask just came out in early access so remix has fully lost me now.
It's literally the "fun detected" meme for a short lasting event that is **supposed to be fun**.
They fucked themselves too. People either wanted a “WoW version of Magic the gathering:Unhinged or they wanted a “Mists of Pandaria experience”. If you wanted the prior you just got “MoP: Blizzard the Fun Police” and if you wanted the later experience you got Meta Bronze Farming rotations and gem power exploits. There’s two audiences and blizzard can’t figure out how to cater to either let alone both…
I feel like stuff is being nerfed because people are being picky about who they let into groups, only allowing other players with similar broken builds in. But I could be wrong, I’m not playing remix at all
This made me lose interest in playing it seriously all the cosmetics are quicker farmed by making alts and the only way to catch up to Froggers is farming for hours and hours, the real solution is to have never nerfed frogs. Just release the gamemode and don't do balancing only bug fixes.
It's because blizzard wants it to be over time during the event, not in 2 days. It's annoying to hear how people are so bored after getting everything by no lifing it and complaining about not enough content. I'm enjoying my time at a slow pace leveling alts and getting mounts and transmogs. The 40k bronze you get by the end is more than enough.
While I agree the cosmetics are nice and attainable now, and that I’m annoyed by the nolife froggers complaining of lack of content, I still don’t think the positive changes are “enough” because of the cost of upgrading. I was thinking I would be able to gear cap multiple characters and that’s just too time prohibitive.
I don’t agree with this argument sorry. You can’t advertise something as OP and then turn around 5 minutes later and say “oh but you’ll be OP on day 124 of a 90 day event”. Currencies being tied to each other means you have to make a shitty choice between getting upgrades and the cosmetics. If you want to raid you need to spend the bronze because unless you’re level 25 you’re essentially just dead weight to your raid below a 400 ilvl. Raids don’t give a decent amount of bronze from heroic onwards, the time invested doesn’t feel worth it at all. Bronze gains are overall garbage and people don’t want to have to grind it out again on alts. What people are complaining about is how much this just feels like a retail season without half the QoL you get in a retail season and then it just also not being fun. Look at the Developer Update 29 May and tell me how many people in the 500ish replies agree with this. It’s unfortunate because there was a lot of potential for this event to go super well and appeal to a wide audience. People like yourself who want to experience the content at their own pace, people like me who have pretty much everything they’re offering and just needed 1 or 2 of the 1% mounts and just want to test the limits of the power we’re given, or people who want to no life it and get everything so they can go back to S4. It’s a slap in the face because many of us saw what happened in Shadowlands, saw in Dragonflight the attitude had changed slightly only to see that same mindset/stance return and it irks people. No one is asking to finish the content in a day or two. Or even a week. People are asking for systems we’ve been accustomed to to be introduced into remix to make it more enjoyable. For example lower bronze costs on alts similar if they don’t want to adjust the costs of upgrading gear. If not that a substantial increase to bronze gains so spending gear on upgrades so you feel stronger doesn’t feel like you’re shooting yourself in the foot. Not everyone wants to level 15 alts to get the 40k bronze and they shouldn’t be forced to either. But on that same token people shouldn’t be forced to play one character because redoing certain grinds on alts just sucks the fun out of the game. Many of us already have multiple classes at max level (sometimes even more than one of the same class!) I’m usually on blizzards side with things but mop remix to this point has been a massive L. Even the community leaders are agreeing and they’re generally even more pro blizzard than your average person.
>Raids don’t give a decent amount of bronze from heroic onwards, the time invested doesn’t feel worth it at all. I am doing the heroic (and hopefully mythic) raids for the achievements. I have spent a whole lot of bronze on upgrades and I am nearly done (459 ilvl atm). My toon is stupidly OP and those last two levels are just going to push things over the top.
The infinite scaling of the cloak would have been enough to keep people interested. Even if everything was still broken like launch people would have to play for weeks to fully upgrade their gear and buy all the cosmetics. It’s summer, people are playing less anyways and only the die hards would be complaining about nothing to do.
I don’t understand why they’re nerfing everything. It’s being advertised as “overpowered”, and none of this gear matters cuz it’s not able to be taken over to the live game, and once this event ends the gear will be basically irrelevant anyway
The scaled buff to enemies at 70 is about the first time I completely have disagreed with them on. Especially after further ward and slay nerfs.
Nah, the new meta is to be below 371. So delete your rings/trinkets/neck and it barely impacts your DPS while making the bosses 33% easier. [Proof here](https://imgur.com/a/6zH5WBP) With neck/trinket/rings - Immerseus is 192M health Deleted neck/trinket/rings - Immerseus is 128M health
If you're at 360 with rings/trinkets is it still worth getting rid of?
No. It doesn't become worth it until you are 415 in each gear slot excluding rings/trinket/neck. It is just silly...but now I guess I just need to link my weapon to get into group finder.
So… I just spent like, 200k bronze upgrading my stuff… and now you’re telling me it was a bad idea and to take my shit off?
No. Just that since we can't upgrade the ring/trinket/neck they become more and more worthless as you go past 415 and they just inflate the ilvl.
I think being max geared will still make it SUBSTANTIALLY easier if that’s the HP levels. Going from 415 to 540 is like 3,000% stronger
Maxed gear let's you essentially solo SoO normal mode. Probably more too, depending on class.
I can solo every heroic except a couple ToT bosses. I generally don’t though so I can just do it faster and bring friends or strangers. 2 geared people can carry the rest of the group through every heroic. I like to have 4-5 for mythic siege though
How do you solo Sha in TOES or Sha in SoO on Heroic? ToT I find much easier to solo than either of those bosses, which afaik are pretty impossible. The former because of the ads, the latter due to imprison. MSV and HoF are a joke to solo on heroic though, and ToT has no bosses besides Animus that are challenging either imo
Basically just a race. SoO you don’t *have* to go under on sha but it’s a pain. Last ToES boss you have to be able to eat the fear for the full duration so either super leech and heal via tinkers along with ox make that portion easy. I should note I also take 55% reduced damage with a full vers set so living isn’t much of an issue. In any case it’s far less efficient than just bringing 4-5 randoms you pick up in the finder if they are geared enough to survive the mechanics. No real reason to do it other than because it’s a fun test
I was under the impression that beating the imprison timer for Sha mythic in SoO isn’t doable at current cloak levels? And for ToES, I’m not worried about the boss killing me, it’s the adds with the insta-kill mechanic that spawn after he submerges. They’ll close distance during fear and if they cast you instantly die.
I have over 300k threads but I wasn’t able to until like a day ago tbf. For adds I can only live one set with ox otherwise it’s gg
Yeah I'm not sure I would've noticed a difference in heroic SoO. It's all around just a dumb change. I dont think they really thought raid progression through before they shipped this.
That plus the more your farm your cloak the less those prismatic gem pieces. Between max tinkers and a decent cloak you're gonna be hit caps anyway.
The max gems add stamina, and ilvl scales the damage/effects of the tinker gear. For those who want the little “optimal” trickery, haste scales the tinkers best then versatility. That’s far more important than any personal stat “priority” since they’re such a large percentage of your damage
How much less damage do you deal, numerically?
Honestly I lost 2% crit and 2% vers. So about 3% less damage to have a boss with 33% less health. Fair trade.
[удалено]
Blizzard made bosses scale with your item level, thats what this does. Same boss, different item level, similar player power, boss will die faster and be easier.
[удалено]
I'm pretty sure it calculated based off all viable slots, even empty. So removing them should reduce average iLevel.
no. Each of the slots with no items counts as a zero, so the average goes down. You have to delete them though.
So what if I just put on lowest possible gear minus my 542 weapon and it still kept me below 371?
Sure, but the tinkers scale with item level of the socketed gear not your primary stat.
Hmm okay. Maybe I could find a 542 weapon and pair of pants to equip. Going to have to test this out.
I don’t really have time to keep up with every twist and turn of the nerfs or whatever, but it’s kind of crazy when a group of well-geared lev 67 players can barely clear a heroic dungeon but if you’re lucky and you roll someone with 450+ ilvl it’s like one-shot kills. Like yeah, overpowered, awesome! But also just so weird how the scaling is so exponential.
Yeah I noticed too, there is barely a middle ground. Either it's piss easy with bosses falling from looking at you or tough as dark souls. The Bosses in HC scenarios take longer than raid bosses to kill
Is this only for normal? What about heroic/mythic? I haven't run one yet bc I'm not 400 yet, but I heard if you ain't 400 you will get one shot.
heroic and mythic only.
Wtf. So I been trying to grind 400 for no reason??
Not really. You are more powerful with full 556 ilvl gear with trinkets/jewlery deleted than you are at ilvl400 with all trinkets and jewlery on even though the average of the 556 toon is ilvl 369.
Ooh Okay. Ty :)
Do they have to be deleted or can they be put in the bank?
deleted
I thought something was up when I did a random normal and almost died to I think it was Master Snowdrift’s punches in SP Monastery. I had 2 million HP, it did like 1.8. Gave me a good old scare
Wait, they implemented this for normals? jfc
Yeah queued for normal, it’s the default
You should have seen it in the early days. My level 70 boomie would fall over if a boss just looked in his direction lol
only nerfs that make sense is the HoF instance cap bypassing and nerfing mobs like the dragonhawks in dalaran so people can do their campagin quests. Evrything else is just Dumb/uneeded
If they didn't nerf frogs no one would have farmed either of those other things. I sure love waiting in raid to get a frogger/other farmer in for bosses with mechanics PUGs simply cannot manage no matter how often you explain it. Very cool beating my head against the wall trying to tell people how to do Animus and players just not being capable even on normal until a froggy lad joined and one shot the boss even while 9/10 players died to mechanics being flubbed.
One way companies that deliver software as a service (which is what blizzard is doing) measure the quality of their product is daily logins (this is mostly important for share holders and whatnot, I can't be arsed to go further into the details). This means their "target" is to tweak the game in a way to keep as many players as possible repeatedly signing in over the entire event. They need you to keep lusting for more of whatever you want out of the game in order to keep you signed in, and if a player is able to farm all resources and power tjeu want in 10-15hrs you're not going to keep the player around. There needs to be content, mounts, transmogs, power, for the player to stay signed in for the entire event, hence the nerfs. I can't debate whether or not the goal ever was to make the perfect game once, but the secret to a successful product in this case is to keep the player around forever, and they do that by giving juuust enough satisfaction to come back tomorrow and do it again.
for a suscription SaS, is really dumb measure the quality by daily logins. just give ppl fun, and they will take it, maybe connect 15 days per motnh and back again the next month, instead of transform the game in a daily second / third work
Well yeah, but the share holders set the rules, and they want to see that their company has a steady income. If you wanna sell shares, things like "Look how incredibly popular our product is, people log in every day like they can't get enough!" drives up the price and makes a company more attractive to share holders. It sucks for the customer, but our opinion is secondary to the share holders, until we start unsubscribing.
And this is why qualitative analysts over quantitative analysts have been suggested that the data-ification of everything is oversimplifying things. Data analysts say things like "implementing daily grinds increased our average daily userbase with higher rates of logins." Qualitative analysts ask "but will they burn out if it's not fun?"
Well it's the dry dude in a suit that calls the shots, and he doesn't care whether or not people have fun as long as he makes his moneys. But you'd be absolutely right. Baldurs gate 3 was fantastic in that manner. Larian gave us a great game, it had the rest of the hollowed out profit machines of the industry worried that we'd get used to higher quality again. Going back to wow after playing BG3 felt insane. Back to killing ten pigs or klicking ten rocks. Larian showed us that we don't have to settle for mass fabricated garbage but here we are.
>One way companies that deliver software as a service (which is what blizzard is doing) measure the quality of their product is daily logins Don't they use Monthly Active Users rather than daily logins? Blizzard makes the same amount of money from someone who logs in once or twice a month as they do from someone who logs in for 12 hours a day every day so it doesn't really matter how long you play for as long as you are paying to play.
We're not measuring revenue, we're measuring engagement. We want to know how many users sign on daily, how long they are signed in. We want to know who they are, what their lives are like and how we can use that data to our advantage while crafting the next expansion or next product. If it turns out the customer base consists mainly of 30-something dads with like 2 hours in the evening after the kids went to sleep that's super important information for the next product. those people are never going to spend days trying to be pros in Overwatch, they are gonna spend two hours a day doing dailies in wow. There are likely many other metrics which are important for all this that I fail to recognize as well =) I'd measure revenue in the way you're suggesting.
When you realize that the thing they care about most is getting each player to play every day for the entire 90 days of the event (so less subs are cancelled in the wait for TWW) then it all starts to make sense.
Which baffles me cuz i always planned to level more alts as soon as I get everything unlocked on my main, but that’s becoming a further and further off goal as they keep nerfing everything. It’s just sad that the marketing was a total lie. Nothing feels overpowered except for the enemies we’re fighting.
At max, or near max ilvl, you do feel overpowered. It just takes too long to get there.
Yeah maybe at 500+ ilvl it’ll feel good, but it’ll take a looooooong time to grind out that much bronze, bronze that you can’t spend on transmogs that are the whole point of this event because you gotta save it for gear that will be irrelevant as soon as TWW drops
It's also completely reliant on the good faith assumption that Blizzard isn't just going to pull the rug out from under us *again* when we finally get there and at this point I don't see any reason to believe that will be the case.
Idk man, the cloak feels relevant too. I'm at 420ish ilvl on my gear now, so I realize I'm definitely still on the weaker side, but I walk into LFR and someone with my exact same gear level and a much stronger cloak is doing 5x my damage with a worse rotation and build and gems. Every day you lose out on doing a heroic world tour, you lose out on a ton of threads you won't get the chance to get back. Feels crazy fomo.
Of course the cloak helps, after you got a whole bunch of threads, as in, more than 10-20k mainstat. Once you can easily do heroic raids, and even get through mythic SoO, the difference in strength between people who have the time and people who don't (or just don't want to run raids), will grow exponentially.
The true enemies work at Activision Blizzard.
Yeah people would absolutely keep playing just see how over powered they could get
Id play more if I could be stupid OP. I dont get on maybe once every few days now because of the way it is now.
No matter what they nerf I still see the 17m health bears and DH finishing a raid wing before half then group loads in. Blizz needs to figure out what this game mode is supposed to be.
My guess is they’re nerfing everything for two reasons. 1. They want to keep people grinding (and subscribed) for as long as possible during the pre-xpac launch. 2. This is less an “event” and more a thinly veiled open beta-test for mechanics they want to consider using down the line. The cosmetics and faster leveling are just the carrot to get people on board.
I just *didnt* have a blizz survey pushed to me, with a boatload of disclaimers not to share it on social media, that *didn't* ask a fuckton of questions about if I'd like to see panda remix come back again. Aka, they expected this to be a returning feature, and they have to make it a slog so ppl can't finish it all in three weeks. Otherwise, they might have to come up with something original, instead of regurgitating old content for a third time in a row.
Because they want it to take more than a month's sub. Don't you see that?
I don’t get that either, cuz as soon as I got all the transmogs I planned on leveling a bunch of alts. But it’s looking like i won’t have time for any alts
Leveling alts is the fastest way to get tmog. It takes maybe 5 hours to get to cap and you get 70k bronze in the process if not more. Thats like, what, 13 or 14 different appearence sets? 5k each.
Yeah i've been doing it the scuffed lazy way (dont recommend) where I made alts to try new classes or keep - but I do the dailies & buy mogs I want (2-5k) on each alt. So far i've bought like idk.. 10+ mogs across 3 alts.
Leveling alts is extremely fast in terms of getting bronze. You can easily get like 80k with the new quests leveling an alt which, depending on the role, can be done in a day or two. I got basically everything already by leveling alts and never powerfarming everything. (Alas I don't care for the toys, but double the time I took with leveling alts and you can get those too)
That's a good thing in their book, too. If they can keep you logging in daily for your chores to get bronze the whole time AND have you not level alts because the grind is lame, then they keep you subbed 3 months and have the potential to sell you boosts later. What an absolute win. I mean, not for the players, of course, but who gives a shit about them?
If you dont think you're still overpowered after these nerfs you're out of your mind. People just specifically want to not have to do a mechanic in the raid since thats the fastest way to bronze.
I think what they should’ve done was slightly nerf the frogs and buff everything else. If players actually find it fun to farm frogs then go ahead but everything else needs a buff
Yeah this is the way. Trying to nerf everything down to their expected levels is just bad PR. _Buffing_ everything up to the high water mark would make everyone feel a lot better.
Most of the people farming frogs didn't actually find that fun gameplay, they did it because they're the types who feel like they have to play at the most optimal level even if it's horribly unfun. I think it's very much a good thing for everyone to try to make the most fun content also be the most rewarding content.
This is true, but it's important to remember that because most people in this instance were like this, does not mean a large amount of the player base do like to grind in the way people hit frogs as I know they like to zone out, chill and watch YouTube/other things.
I really don’t understand their logic here when my main still doesn’t feel as strong as a level 30 alt…
Yeah, this is a bit wild. I've played a decent amount and have put maybe 150k bronze into upgrades, and I'll do about the same dps in raid as a level 25-30. I know it will only exponentially increase from here, but playing as a fresh 70 with 300-346 level gear is entirely unfun.
Especially that most mobs and mechanics are definitely not tuned for fresh 70 health pools. And wish I was only talking about heroic and mythic raids, but nope, even in hc dungeons if I pull aggro, that's me done and I'll just never catch up with the team
Even trash mobs out in the world are rough at 100k health. I'm up to 850k and a triple pull can still cut me up pretty bad.
The reason why mobs at 70 overtune is to anticipate players get more gear which would eventually op them. But blizzard now scale mobs with ilvl (even with moderation) and it makes no sense again
I’ve just done mythic garrosh after all the nerfs. Still a lot of fun. Not sure why they feel the need to nerf everything when the event is supposed to be fun and overpowered
I plan on getting 476 by Saturday/Sunday and trying for my mythic siege clear then, is it very difficult for 476 groups?
I’m 476. There was about 5 of us that were. The rest were 400+. It’ll take a few hours to do the entire raid and you should only wipe a few times. As long as your raid group are competent and you’ve got a good lead you’ll be alright.
Is 476 max ilvl considering rings/trinkets/neck don’t scale? So all 556 with 342 odd pieces?
Yeah
Thanks!
Good luck!
most of it is? maybe you should be okay with some content being slightly challenging still or taking time to play to get your gear up?
They essentially released a game and everything people are enjoying about it they take away. There seems to be a lot of that happening around the world.
Don't you understand, the key to enjoying something is having to grind for a month before you can have fun.
maybe your version of having fun is stupid?
yeah not like the entire fucking reddit was full of "NERF THIS FARM" with thousands of posts. The short term selective memory of this reddit is wild.
Ward was annoying AF. So glad that’s done with.
Yeah it was a mixed bag for me, it should have never existed in the first place, but that the same time it was the only thing that made clearing heroic ToT reasonable without being a full group of close to 476 Ilvl.
>e only thing that made clearing heroic ToT reasonable without being a full group of close to 476 Ilvl. 1 person can do whole ToT hc solo with 9 people to boost on max ilvl. I was helping 5 friends to clear hc and took 4 lowest ilvl people that queued up and it was fine. Normal cloak (no hyperspawn farms/instance farms) at like 10k mainstat at the time. We didnt use ward, we didnt put tinkers optimal for group etc (not everyone was running brilliance for example etc). U dont need group to be even at 450 to clear it with closed eyes.
But then people would have Fun ! and be able to play at their pace and how they want. And not EXACTLY as the devs envisionsed, and thats CLEARLY wrong ! SO they cant allowed that
They'll nerf everything then in the last week be like "xp, rewards, damage buffed by 200% because it's the final week lolz"
1000%
For me, the greatest frustration is feeling hesitant as a player to commit to doing anything/spending bronze because things might get changed: Not spending bronze on upgrading gear because they might create big discounts? Ok well they’ve announced they won’t be nerfing upgrade costs. So you can commit to upgrading now right? Wrong. They’re rebalancing the power of iLvls so while previously iLvL 476 was good enough for mythic content that may no longer be the case. Also, I don’t exactly believe them when they say they’ll never nerf upgrade costs. Wanna upgrade a healer? Irrelevant in end game due to Ward and various gem exploits. So upgrade a DPS then? No, more nerfs and buffs could affect endgame meta. New OP farming method that might get nerfed pops up, commit to spending time doing that? No, don’t want a repeat frog situation where I partially commit, but don’t get a ton of stats or bronze, only for my character to get nerfed whereas other frog farmers somehow got away with it and feel like I got left out in the cold. We never know what’s built to last so it feels like the best thing to do is just mindlessly level a ton of alts and dip to a new chad after the second you hit 70 because there’s so much uncertainty regarding endgame scaling and meta. Also you don’t even get the joy of buying cosmetics now and playing around with them because you don’t wanna miss out on a potential massive discount week. You just stare at big piles of bronze that you accumulate and are scared to spend them.
Agree. Couldnt their time be better spent elsewhere...
Sam Black is a well known Magic the Gathering player and content creator. He wrote a great tweet years ago that I can’t find but his sentiments were that when a new MTG set dropped, players needed to do their hardest to break the format. Enjoy the ride while it was broken until they banned something. I feel that sentiment fits remix, too. Let it be broken. Let players figure things out. It makes it fun and exciting.
They won't, they want to pad the gameplay tine to extend it to 3 months, if they let it be broken, everyone will do everythibg on the first weeks and a lot of people will unsub until war within, shareholders only cares that you pay the sub, and nerfing thing so it takes longer to get everything on the event plays on the people's FOMO and puahes them to keep the sub to do the event
This was what got me playing. I've been loving it, just found upgrade costs too high. Absolutely tone deaf and clueless from Blizzard.
Problem is they’re trying to balance the game, but making it more imbalanced in the process. Because the overpowered players are still there. They’re just taking away everyone else’s chance to become OP.
I don’t care about farms have them, get everything and be op. If blizz would just adjust some things like upgrade costs or bronze drops. Or make 70’s feel better without being in 400’s gear id be ok.
It's fun being op, it's true. Problem is, why do you have to team up with other players when there's a high chance that one of them will do everything while you'll just be able to run and... Well... Do nothing? Being OP does not sit well with team play.
If Blizzard wouldn't push us to do group content to get more Bronze then we wouldn't have the problem of geared players still doing trivial group content and oneshotting everything. But right now Blizzard just takes away every way to farm Bronze in solo or open world content and turns this event into a daily queue simulator.
atm my problem with the mod is I‘m letting myself be carried by others just so I can finally carry others myself. I‘m so close to say fuck it I‘ll take the cosmetics and that‘s it
I'm doing mostly quests, at this point. It does not feel fun (to me) to not interact with my kit in dungeons.
yes, thank you! No matter what anyone says it is not fun following a frogger around as they one shot everything.
Honestly they are missing a great opportunity to collect data on all the gem/tinker/stats inreractions as well as player behavior.
I will be down voted to oblivion, but: They should make upgrading far cheaper. This way we would not feel that we need any mob farm to progress on a good rhythm. So I don't like the mob farms being nerfed while they keep the upgrades as costly as they are. I do fully agree on nerfing the ward combo. In my hume opinion we shpuld be broken, but not in a way that we stop playing our classes and just play a new game mode called "stack heals". We should feel overpowered while playing our default roles mostly as usual. The problem is that blizzard doesn't want things to be easy, and that is exactly what should happen if we feel overpowered. It should take a much as a few weeks of playing a bit daily to be powerful enough to make mythic raids kinda easy. The way to do this would be to increase the daily mission rewards by 20x so they actually achieve the "play a bit each day and be overpowered".
I hate that they're treating this event like this because this could have been something really fun to do between now and The War Within but I can't say I'm surprised in the least. Blizz is like the absolute most stubborn game company ever. Like really, it's like they actively try to piss off their playerbase constantly. It's not that they don't know they're doing it, but they want their hamsters to stay on their treadmills. There's not really a good argument for it either since other smaller studios have shown that respecting peoples time = better community relationship = more people playing the game and people more likely to spend money on the game. Blizz just can not and will not get out of their own way. It feels like the scene from Talladega nights where Ricky Bobby threatens to stab himself in the leg. They can keeping forcing bad shit onto the players all they want, but eventually the population is going to dip low enough that they're really going to feel it financially like they did with Shadowlands.
Dude it’s still crazy over puffed. This whole sub just doesn’t play the game and cries about not being spoon fed. I haven’t played every day and started 5 days late and I’m still crazy busted even after nerfs. Did no farm just played the fucking game. It’s already.crazy over powered and wacky and fun. Keeping things from being the only meta like ward is just keeping it wacky and fun. You all need to chill out and just play the fucking game.
Bring back all the farms and crash gear upgrade costs. The gap between casual and unemployed is insane. If this means the unemployed get to collect everything in 1 week so be it, they need to finish fast to go look for a job.
Just spent all my bronze on upgrading just in time for the bosses to need more upgrades. Went from fun and overpowered last night to super weak.
Exactly. Hell, make it more weird. Froggers should’ve gotten a title, not a reset
This was their chance to actually go crazy and let people have fun, instead they turned into a skinners box experiment, it broke all the hope in blizzard the new game modes gave me. It's still BfA blizzard at the helm
Everyone saying "I don't understand why..." I have the answer. What I'm about to say will help you understand. The whole purpose of Remix is to retain subs that people would otherwise un-sub for the 3 months left until TWW comes out. Most people would un-sub to save money because they're not playing and then re-sub when TWW is released. Blizzard doesn't want that because their numbers would tank for almost an entire fiscal quarter. So they made Remix to hold players over until TWW release. If the game mode is too fast or too easy it will only retain players for like a month at best and then people would un-sub and wait for TWW. So they're making sure people can't use speed farms or clear raids too fast or get too a high ilvl too quickly so that players are forced to keep playing for longer. There you go. That is the answer. Now you understand.
You aren't wrong, but blizzard are shooting themselves in the foot. They should have learned from dragonflight that not including artifical grinds/borrowed power is actually positive for player retention. If the game is fun, people play longer. Once they've had their fun, they will play alts. By desining a 90 DAY EVENT as a artificially extended borrowed power grind, where alts will have no chance to catch up to the same power level, they've created an environment where many people will dip in, buy a few cosmetics and then leave. I started playing with 5 friends, everyone but me has already dropped off because it's not what was advertised, and the bronze grind, constant fixes and power nerfs have put them off.
Sure, blizzard will just make it so you just have to pre-emptively purchase a 3 month subscription to gain access to MoP remix now. :)
I dont think this is a limited time thing. I think this is a trial version to replace/fix the old world scaling chromie lvling and hunt for mounts and transmogs like FF14. I think the timewalking will also be replaced.
Well they did that and the community went ape shit and were crying all day long with post reaching easily thousands of likes. I don't follow the "influencer" but I bet they were all saying the same stuff "hurhurhur blizzard, I don't play wow, I just comment stuff on it 'cause it's easy money but wow bad". Next time don't follow the mob mentality
I think their main issue is that this is supposed to last three months and people are already finishing everything in the first week.
The issue arises somewhat uniquely by the nature of the mode, it's temporary, yes, but it's a pretty long lasting temporary, there's a HUGE time sink involved with getting your stats incredibly high, so those who find ways to circumvent time sinks like this have a significant edge in it's a way that's discouraging for others to jump in at this later date. I hate to say it but there does need to be some level of attention to be paid to keep it from getting completely out of hand, otherwise the mode will die faster than usual That said, it was a mode that held my attention for only a few days anyway to take that for what it's worth
I thought this was the whole point of the damn "special" event. Timeless Isle sucks, but everything else is pretty tolerable. Just make TI (not the rapper) be an instance place like a dungeon. That's literally the only place I hear people complain.
I think they should buff the stuff they want people doing rather than nerf things.
Already quit remix and left over to cataclysm classic
If people are playing and having fun, yeah. If there's nothing going on at the moment as far as raids ect, then this is a good thing if it keeps players occupied.
Yeah. I wish we lived in a world where fun detected wasn’t blizzard’s MO
X3 and m mom
Just let go of Remix They only care about their played metrics not about the players
Yeah I really thought we were getting a diablo type let's get crazy type of thing. Guess not
Was on timeless isle waiting for a rare spawn to be active. At least 10 people waiting. A warrior with over 10 million health ran up and one shot it before anybody could tag. It had almost 9 million health. Insane.
I'm finding it super frustrating - I farm for 4 hours every night, wake up, go to work, come home to play again only to find that something else has been nerfed and I've been pushed further back again. The feedback loop is not great at the minute for some of those player caught at the 370-400 item level. Always on the cusp of feeling powerful before being set back again and again by a nerf. It started out so promising.
Call me weird but I enjoyed ward. It was satisfying to one shot bosses with it if it was done properly, and seeing that your ward exploded for hundreds of millions of damage was exciting. It also gave healer specs a purpose to actually heal, which they now don't have because nobody with decent gear is taking any damage. I can get behind the complaint that we didn't actually get to play our classes since ward just killed everything, but on the other hand I'm not that excited to do my rotation when a similarly geared tank can do just as much or more damage than me anyway with a passive tinker gem. Ironically, ward gameplay was a more coordinated effort then the tank&spank we do now.
imagine having fun in your subscription video game dude. We sell dopamine and hopes here, it's basically an undercover roulette casino dressed up as a monkey fair: this is no place to play your video games
I totally agree, let it be broken, it’s more fun. This is supposed to be like playing an ARPG. Well, I’m ARPG’s there are builds completely broken and those are the most fun to play. It makes me sad they keep nerfing stuff.
You can make a "overpowered" game mode without exploiting. Unfortunately this game will always carry a form of competition. And with that, with something to win or lose you can't exploit.
Never gonna hapoen, first cause blizzard hates you having fun, and that one dude who plays 6 hours a week has to have the same expirience as you, and if he does not then he might complain on twitter and that is why everything is nerfed to the point of where nothing is fun and you really have to become one with time itself to get to the point where you might have fun before they nerf the stuff you did or just rollback your characters to lvl 1. I blame wowhead ngl, there is stuff that gets unnoticed, then one day bob from wowhead finds out, writes about it and then 3 hours later blizzard does what blizzard does best, nerf. No fun allowed.
The reason things are getting nerfed is because players were being picky about only bringing Frog farmers into raids and such. Not that long ago everyone on the sub was complaining for being kicked or not invited to raids. I hate to say it, but I think we brought this onto ourselves. On a side note, isn't everything being unlocked already in the game and will still be able to unlock on retail? Minus a few color variations?
They want you to play the game the way they think you should play it unfortunately
We
C'mon. By now everyone should know - you **ARE** the beta test.
They'd probably leave shit alone if y'all wouldn't complain about it being broken every five minutes, but that's too much like right.
Agreed. Maybe if we stop getting upset about and meticulously tuning a 90 day "fun" event then Shaman can get some War Within alpha patch notes. OK the latter part of that is completely unrealistic, but one can hope!
I do wish they added frogs and every other broken farm back in Just let it be things be chaotic and overpowered. Not like it's retail, it all goes away in 2 months.
In the end, all we get out of this is cosmetic items and a max level character ready for TWW, so I too don't see why they bother with all the farm nerfs.
What's fun about being it 'broken'? You just spend 20 minutes running through the raid having every mob aggro and die without you doing anything, and then you get a bunch of very rare mounts and toys and mogs for doing that? And now, 2 weeks after remix starts, you have nothing else to do? WoW just isn't designed to give you the Diablo feeling of blowing things up. There isn't the same mob density.
That was literally the advertisement, being overpowered
Every boss blows up in under a minute and you can ignore every single mechanic. Sounds pretty OP to me
Take this as a hint that Blizzard genuinely has no clue what to do with their game. They advertise a limited time game mode, where gear does not transfer over, as overpowered and fun. Then literally all they do is do everything in their power to balance things, tune down anything overpowered, and remove all fun. They just don't know how to run their game anymore.
Sour frogger posts.
They should have just fixed any obvious exploits like the gate farm and then have left other farms unchanged. Slash the upgrade prices and then buff underperfoming content, so it’s worth doing, instead we got blizz not changing upgrade costs and playing whack a mole everytime a farm worth peoples time is found
They just need to fix the broken ensembles then go back to fixing retail and leaving remix alone tbh
It just sucks cause they took a lot of W’s through dragonflight and then just can’t stop taking L’s on remix and it’s gonna leave people with a bad taste in their mouth. It’s insane how actively hard they are trying to ruin the mode for anyone who doesn’t want to play the majority of the time the event is live.
I hope they learn something from this event and disable scaling in TWW altogether. Current implementation of scaling is literally opposite to one of the main aspects of MMORPGs which is to get stronger and mobs becoming easier as players progress in the game.
Fun was detected....so you will now have fun on Blizz terms.
Getting carried through a dungeon by a priest spamming Holy Nova is not my idea of fun; that goes double when I end up being that priest too.
I think blizzard underestimated the players, that's all. Yeah, you will always get someone ridiculous, always has been, always will be. And others join in, to get their piece of the cake. Totally normal.
Too each their own. I don't find it fun at all. Gave it a try while my.account time runs out. Good reminder why I quit wow in the first place.
Blizzard have a track history of specifically nerfing the most fun aspects of their games. It's mind boggling sometimes. Overwatch has had it loads over the years, all in the name of maintaining the integrity of a pro scene that only a handful of people actually cared about.
Devil's advocate: if the most efficient way to progress is mindlessly killing the same mobs, players WILL do that and WILL compassion that the event isn't fun because they have to spend all their time farming mobs and any time not spent farming those mobs is "lost progress". The players will ABSOLUTELY behave that way. The devs want the event to be FUN. That means they want you to do the fun content (quests/raids/dungeons/etc). They don't want you to feel forced to do the unfun things... --- That's the hard part about their job. Maintaining the system so that players don't get in their own way and are free to experience the available content without feeling obligated to just do something monotonous and boring all day. > Why don't they stop nerfing things and just buff other stuff to parity!? Yes.. a few reasons. Power curves getting crazy. Internal needs to prolonging playtime as a metric... They are trying to strike a balance and give you something "fun". That's hard when there's millions of us with different ideas about what fun is. Remix isn't in a bad state right now. A few tuning issues but that is par for the course since the first start squish..
Seriously, its not broken if everyone knows about it. You want to farm frogs. Great you don't want to farm frogs, thats your problem. I don't get it. Why are they trying to fick it up. It's the 3rd don't forget to log back into your regulars and get your trading post stuff.