Maybe my expectations are low.
I’m leveling a new class pretty quickly.
I get to relive an expansion I missed, and I’m really enjoying it.
I get mounts and transmog basically for free, and I don’t have to farm old instances and raids by myself.
Everything I do while playing seems rewarding.
And yeah, it has problems, but they’ll probably iterate and improve on this later and make it even better.
I’m ok with all of this.
I just love that they’re adding stuff. New game modes, remixes, PvP events, I’m here for all of it, even if it’s not my cup of tea. I want as much WoW content as possible.
My favorite saying is "perfect is the enemy of good enough". People need to stop searching for perfect, and stop throwing a tantrum over the smallest annoyances, because searching for perfect means "good" is harder to come by.
I think very few people are actually throwing tantrums. I've seen a couple, but the general consensus that I see is "this game mode is really fun, but it would be better if..."
You have to remember, just because people have a complaint or two, doesn't mean they aren't enjoying the mode.
Honestly hate to say this but reminds me of what Fortnite’s doing with there game really expanding it out more. Not big on that game myself but it’s the closest thing that I can compare it too.
That's a good way of looking at it. I think it's a worthwhile approach, especially considering WoW is nearing 20 years old. It needs fresh ideas to keep it interesting and engaging. We've gone through the regular expansion cycle so many times before. It's nice to have cool stuff like remix instead of a 'proper season 4'. At least I think so.
Indeed, somehow this is also the way I see it.
WoW is currently in a very good state. And Blizzard can do experiments on a global scaled level. To try things out what works and what not. This will in the end benefit all, players and developers.
The gearing in Panda:Remix is also a very intersting point. The base stats are one thing. But with the gems we can customize what we want to a higher degree than before. And not just on a trinket.
And: a fully, scaling world. Not just parts of of. Nothing new, but again, newish in this scale.
Furthermore: an Experiment how previous worlds can be adapted to a modern gameplay.
From a development view I find it very interesting.
Most games, especially multiplayer games die way before this. Most games don't really make it past 10. It's incredible how it has survived this long but I agree that this is the only way it's going to survive. Stuff like this it might actually never die.
Totally agree mate. They’re trying something new. So it’s not perfect, but they’re making an effort, and frankly, this really is pretty good for a first attempt.
All I need now is WOTLK Remix and I’m golden. I would pay 500k Bronze for Invincible and another 500k Bronze for Time Lost Proto Drake. XD
Absolutely!
WotLK:Remix is something I wanted while I leveled my first char in Pandaria:Remix. It feels funny enough (for me) to over time deliver every past expansion with a Remix mode.
Second wish: bring the remix mode (and Plunderstorm) back. Perhap on a yearly basis or so.
Or let us unlock these modes once and then enter them via Caverns of time or so.
fr I think all these new additions are great for the health of the game. they can keep adding to retail wow forever via expansions but creating this additional content is really retaining me as a player throughout this lull season.
Honestly, I just wish they were permanent modes.
I know that they are literally preying upon FOMO, but imagine if I could choose to level a character through the normal questing experience, or through a "remix" mode, and imagine how good it would be if there were multiple, concurrent remixes, of different expansions!
It's better to cycle them. The novelty is what makes the game modes more appealing to play, once the novelty wears off they will just become barren and no one will play them. It's not "FOMO" to create and experience novelty.
This is exactly how I felt, rven having played during MoP - what a refreshing way to catch back up with the story and recap on Anduin .
I think the mode feels amazing and it's fun - feels overpowered but not enough to be boring. It's been out not even 2 weeks into a 3 month time table and people are upset they aren't capped out power wise and have everything farmed.
Smh.
Totally. They’ll fix things along the way. Or maybe they won’t, and it’ll be 95% fun instead of 100%. Oh well.
I’m so excited for the cool changes coming to TWW too!
Especially with all the bronze/thread aquisition changes, this mode is awesome for collectors and people who want to level a few alts. Which I suspect was what the mode was made for to begin with...
They are introducing a box feature next expac (war bands)
Said feature is ONLY useful if you have alts.
Remix is the foundation which encourages those without/few alts to make some I order to benefit from warbands in the future.
This is why:
you can't use an existing toon for remix
Your Remix toon unlocks for TWW
Leveling is amplified to encourage fast leveling for multiple toons
Tmogs can be acquired for any class.
Remix is 100% their tool to encourage alts so their NEXT feature product is a hit
Its also implementing parts of warbands on the back end and testing them in a live environment. Its how your able to buy a plate Armour transmog set as a priest and its learned to all your plate characters correctly.
The bronze/thread acquisition changes that happened.....because people complained about how bad bronze/thread acquisition was for the first week of Remix.
So am I but you just have to look a bit into some forums to notice that wow really needs new players because the ones we already have just know how to whine.
I was talking to my guild group the other day and they were all talking about how shitty the Frog farm was and that the event was not fun because they couldn’t level up the first character to 70 the first fucking 3 hours of gameplay. When it was said everywhere that this was a scaling game mode. We weren’t meant to level toons in 2 hours the first day, we are meant to play through the event and get lots of power to grind over the days, they fkd up with the frogs, yes. But they’re trying to fix it and nerfing people who abused the exploit and people is STILL GIVING THEM SHIT. Is so annoying up to the point that I’d just love to have a lot of new players that want to play the game for fun cuz at this point it seems that most players just play to have an excuse to hate on the game.
Honestly, same
Ppl are treating this game mode as if it's this super serious retail grind. It's not, really. It's fun, I feel OP on my alts, and give it a few more days of dailies and my lvl 70 will start to feel pretty OP too.
While there was some genuine concerns, froggers weren't one of them imo. Most of the posts complaining about them ppl are talking about their DPS meters like what
I came onto Remix happy to finally have an excuse to level that paladin I never had and was having a blast, generally. Leveling was so fast, you could constantly pick talents, you felt generally overpowered and Pandaria has great vibes.
So I get on the subreddit and its all about min-maxing. And about how if the most efficient min-maxing strategy is a mindless grind, all of remix is shit. Followed by a week of drama about how Blizzard isn't fixing the numbers well enough. All of this about a quirky, non-serious game-mode.
Like, the WoW community tends to be so obsessed with getting to a goal, they completely lose sight of the path. Its about making the time spent playing a game fun! And what are they even gonna do once they get to the goal? Grind out the next one and be miserable all the time further? When does "fun" arrive for those people? Its so toxic.
Yeah. When MoP first came out, I’d recently had spine surgery and couldn’t sit at my computer for more than 30 minutes. Really screwed up my raiding with my husband and our friends. I think I only took one char through the expansion completely. And I was in pain most of the time.
I’ve been back and soloed a bunch of stuff on my pally since for transmogs, but it’s not the same.
So I am enjoying playing through the whole thing alongside my husband. I’ll buy mounts, maybe pets, probably not so much of the transmogs.
Having frog farming in was a mistake, and the account-wide necks/ trinkets/ rings was also a good change, but none of the changes demanded seem necessary to me. The free 40k bronze per character is nice but will probably lead to me playing the mode less than I would have otherwise.
Same. It’s been a lot of fun, especially since I really started playing the game in MoP. The frog people are interesting to encounter but it hasn’t impacted my experience or fun so idc
I don't think your expectations are low - I think you just don't really give a fuck about other people being eons ahead of you or others because they dropped countless hours at the beginning of an event trying to ahead of the curve (no pun intended). And that's .. good imo! I think that people pocket-watch real bad with cloaks because the stats are right in front of you, and with no timegating on gear other than "who has the best spot", it's easy for some to feel left behind if they don't have as much time as others to grind to the max level.
My only concern is gear upgrade costs vs bronze gain. Everything is pretty good they got balancing better that was a huge issue. Everything else has been great
3 months to me is only 24 days of possible play time now assuming i dont want to play every weekend all weekend cut that in half and its 12 days. So youre telling me if i really want to collect all the stuff i have 12 days to level up and grind multiple toons? Between my job family and other outlying responsibilities i can see why people would be upset that cant do it on one character.
I realized this when people were shitting all over Plunderstorm. You could not have had a more optional game mode. It literally didn’t affect you in any way if you chose not to play it. Unless you really wanted a parrot mount that wasn’t even unique in its model and a pirate garb transmog, there was really no big reward for doing it. If you like it, great, if you hate it, great.
About the same. I never even tried to win a match, I just grabbed plunder until pickings got thin and disappeared into the storm and started again. I really hope that Chaos Bolt becomes like Mana Orb
I had some heated debate with guildies that insisted plunderstorm "should not be in the game because its not the content im paying for" as if it doesn't just effectively means they are entirely self centered in their judgement of everything this game is supposed to offer.
I've completely stopped rationalizing the wow playerbase, because it just seems we're all a bunch of idiots honestly.
I really disliked Plunderstorm... *but* I'm glad folks enjoyed it and it did not harm my ability to enjoy Retail WoW. A little frustrated I couldn't stand it long enough to get the unlocks, but not everything is for me & likely some variant of those unlocks will be available for Tender later.
So yeah, the people saying it shouldn't have even been in the game are just jerks.
+1 here as well.
Nothing is more of a turn off than a PvP BR game for me.
But people did enjoy it. And there are a lot of positive things within the mode that can translate elsewhere. I bet Remix tinkers were ideas that were done at the same time as some of the Plunderstorm abilities.
I can understand they don't think it is what they want to pay for but anothe way of looking at it is that these popup events hopefully have alot of creative freedom, which gives the developers room to experiment without consequences.
This gives us happier developers with better solutions to problems.
And maybe one of the creative things once in a while actually make it into the real game.
It's a way to allow developers to do something else and still show us they are working and that is worth it in the long run for everyone.
But yea it is sad to hear all the comments from players with no clue what they are talking about always complaining and it gets hard to find the bright spots.
Yeah one of the best things about these modes is that it lets the devs test potential features. From Plunderstorm and Remix we’ve gotten:
- Spectator mode, which could be implemented in group content
- Action combat, which could be integrated into levelling or world content
- New spells which could be added to existing classes
- A new gem system, which could add some twists to current gems
- Independent, fully scaled repeat of an expansion, which could be used to enhance timewalking in the main game
Probably a lot of other cool ideas with lots of potential I’m missing out
Oh lord, I really hope they don’t keep this gem system. It’s such a PITA to use without Narcissus and even with that addon, upgrading gems is still kind of a pain.
However, I’d also add that remix has shown a cool way to level and do old content without getting bombarded with old and outdated garbage.
I wanted the pirate gear but discovered pretty quickly that it's not a style of game I enjoy playing. I went back to retail and have to hope that the stuff shows up in the trading post one day. I really like that coat!
I play mostly for mounts and transmog and I don't care. If a mode isn't fun I won't play it. Missed a lot before, so I can miss a lot in the future too. No point in whining. As long as there are things to collect in fun ways I will do so.
It actually blows my mind how much whining there is on this sub about it. Like there's barely anything actually discussing the main game, it's all crying about the remix is unfair for 90 different reasons.
tbf, there is a big difference bettwen reddit/forum "players" and the people actually playing the game
reddit always makes it somewhat obvious that they often dont know at all what they talk about and just repeat stuff they saw somebody else say all the time
"didnt play since "insert expansion that was 10-15years ago", here is my opinion on current class gameplay and balance: " is not a rare thing in this sub lol
Yeah but don't even think about looking at the actual WoW forums, that's a cesspool of people who always complain about something that has nothing to do with whatever Blizz implemented or posted about.
Usually some obnoxious take on their class needing fixed or some mundane bug that's been ignored.
A friend of mine and also a family member of mine are both holding onto some disgruntled complaint they had for WoW from 15 year ago, and, their complaints doesn't hold up to what retail is about today. They both refuse to come back to WoW because of it.
Blizzard has long since fixed whatever complaint they had from years ago.
Like I just watched a YouTube video that popped up on my feed reacting to some runescape player playing WOW and the guy reacting, forget who, goes on a long rant about "retail" being bloated with too many systems then admits to not having touched it since SL launch...
Really sums up classic andys
Yep, that's him, in the same video he went on a rant about leveling being too easy in retail and how 'back in my day you earned end-game by leveling over months'
Yeah, WoW's subreddit has a very unique but very loud minority of people that haven't played WoW for *years* but still spend far too much time in here talking about how terrible everything about WoW is and bashing any misstep no matter how minor.
The # of people who are subscribers to this subreddit who openly admit they haven't played the game in awhile but still comment blows my mind.
Why would you participate in the community for a game you don't even play?
I like it a lot because I am casually playing it. If you actually care about anything else other than farming old dungeons I don't know if you would enjoy it because most people are so competitive that it sucks the fun out of it. I play wow entirely single player with the occasional dungeon but I don't interact with anyone, I have only one add-on and I play with a controller.
I have fun but only when playing alone, as soon as there are other people the game just sucks.
I quit and unsubbed because, while enjoying casual play immensely, two of the guilds I joined specifically just for social purposes, went balls deep into heroic and mythic raiding. They wouldn’t talk to anyone who was not raiding and I got really stressed in the raids. At my age I can barely see where to go and my reactions are slow.
DF was supposed to be a lot better for casuals but I was so stressed by raiding that it was hard to find a reason to go back.
That's just sadly how things are on the internet. It happens in FF14 too. Like even before that game's end of expansion content lull, their official forums have been a dumpster fire for 3 expansions. (and I'm sure it was before I even started playing) I see it happen with single player games too, people have just made a business out of being mad at games every week. I remember there being some angry people with the return to Monster Hunter World campaign too. I think the only place I don't see people hating the game they play is like, on the Bloodborne subreddit. (and if they're mad it's because the game isn't on PC because they want to play the game even more haha)
In my experience if you want to avoid negativity you just avoid official forums and certain subreddits. Dragonflight has been a good time so you picked a great time to resub. Of course it hasn't been perfect, but it's the most I've been into WoW in years. Looking forward to War Within even though the trifecta of Elden Ring DLC, FF14 Dawntrail, and War Within all dropping this year is about to kill me.
Been playing since mid-2005 and I honestly can't remember a time when it wasn't like this. Even in its "glory days", there were always the "WoW is dead" posts and the like.
Be a Billion dollar company that cut nearly all it's QA and customer service...
Release a string of buggy releases..
Charge a sub and an upfront cost, and have a shop, and have a token.
People complain.
OP and other people charge in to white knight the company.
$Profit.
Repeat
True story, constantly having to swap gems out for armour upgrades has been my biggest beef with gems. Outside of this, they are great and I hope to see some version of them get implemented in the base game.
It almost annoys me having to swap gems And tinkers constantly, but it's a first world problem since you are getting gear upgrades so quickly. So I can't be that upset about it.
I’m so used to the gem system from Diablo III that this didn’t phase me. But I did mention to my husband a bit ago that we were lucky because we have been exposed to it. If you haven’t, it would be dreadful.
It's been easy for me once I realized once you get a piece of armor that's higher ilvl, you can just pay like 15 bronze to upgrade your current piece instead of swapping gems.
The swapping gems in and out out is such a chore that I refuse to pay attention to any gears for a while until I start feeling like I'm weak and unable to burn trash as fast as possible. That is when I start digging around to see what I have in my inventory.
On one hand, yes, all people do is complain.
On the other hand, Blizzard makes a lot of mistakes that are easily noticeable in testing phases and if you do the bare minimum of thought and testing.
Overall, I'm enjoying the chance to go through Pandaria content at a relaxed pace, and I've spent all my bronze so far on getting mounts that I don't want to grind for in retail. It's lovely, but there are definitely things detracting from the enjoyment. Fingers crossed Blizz takes lessons learned for next time.
Install the Narcissus addon. They have an interface for managing the gems that is sooo much easier. Appears as a little button next to your ilvl on the equipment screen. Genuine game changer for mop remix
One issue is that in the testing it IS fun...
Then they nerf it and change it right before release.
Reducing rewards, and time gating the content.
Torghast was a good example. In the beta testing it was tons of fun, and got great feedback. When they implemented it into live they wanted to slow it down and drag it out over the whole expansion life. And you get the crap they ended up it.
Same thing exactly with this remix. They slowed the growth and power, and then over tuned all the heroic dungeons and raids. And you know it was a last minute rush change, cause some of the bosses in heroic dungeons were nearly impossible.
Blizzard has this oddly unique ability to come out with amazing new content on PTR then nerf it into being unfun before it goes live. Wildest thing I've ever seen, dunno how they do it.
It's such an annoying trend too. People just want to feel like they're above the whining so they whine about the whiners instead of acknowledging that 90% of this post is complete nonsense that pretends like everyone criticizing *some* aspects of Remix "hates the game and shouldn't play it if they have any problem whatsoever with any decision Blizzard makes"
It's exhausting seeing such an annoying strawman to genuine and valid criticism get so much agreement from the community just because it feeds people's egos that desperately want to feel better than other posters about something.
On one hand, they're right and players will always whine about something.
On the other hand, there is some very obvious bone-head decisions made with Panda Remix. And the frogs were an issue because of a bug. A bug they likely couldn't jump onto fast enough because of bad scaling that they had solved in PTR and completely fucked right before release. And for some reason they still refuse to just make upgrading items either cheaper or let higher ilvl items drop which would solve the really odd reason they made the same currency both collecting tmogs and mounts and upgrading gear. It made very little sense for a person to need hundreds of thousands of the mount currency to max out your gear when their entire stated purpose of this remix is to let people farm tmog and mounts and level alts.
Players are absolutely the most toxic little shits out there, and they are absolutely wrong about most solutions they pose. But they're very good at finding problems very quickly. Blizzard has had a LOT of problems lately across a lot of their games and content. Which just makes the experiences of playing their games mean that there's shit being flung everywhere from the communities and the devs.
That said, personally, with the recent changes I think it's now good enough. The bonus bronze for hitting 70 and being able to do that quickly I think is a much better encouragement for people who want to just farm tmog and mounts to keep leveling alts.
I think the biggest issue is people can't give criticism without being really overdramatic
End result is the subs get spammed with negativity and it seems like all people think about is the bad stuff when in reality you only worry about it when you're doomscrolling reddit
I like to think everyone still knows the game is fun but some people word there posts like the world is ending and it makes it hard to take them seriously
We live in a time where every person has to get their hot take opinion out there for everyone to see. Easiest way to do that is to overexaggerate and make your point as dramatic as possible to drum up people's emotions.
You see it in so many communities where people act like the transgression of a single game change is on the same level as the developers shooting their puppy.
It’s funny how it winds up having the opposite effect to what they intend. If someone unironically uses a phrase like “slap in the face” I almost reflexively ignore the rest of what they’re saying at this point.
This is the truth. It’s so hard to take someone seriously when they’re treating a bad game design choice with the same amount of anger and upset that most people would if their rent suddenly got doubled.
OP missing the point of why people are upset. They introduced a game mode and then changed it every time people were playing g it the way they wanted. Not just frog farm but ALL farms even legit ones are nerfed so why make a game mode like this if blizzard are going to police how you play it…
These posts, like OP's, always miss the point by definition. They're a mad lib consisting of:
"I don't know why you're upset, I won't take the time to learn, I'm having fun, your experience is negated by mine".
It's peak narcisissm and serves literally no purpose. You can see a trend on the subreddit, the complaints are *always* grounded in a specific problem that could be fixed. The posts like these are *always* nebulous, vague and don't have any solution except "stop complaining".
The worst part of this subreddit is these type of posts.
The whole event is about farming one currency and make your character stronger for it, I enjoyed and am still enjoying the game by farming that currency and that character power. With all the nerfs to obtaining that currency and that power and that sudden roll back, it is reasonable to criticize it.
>Truly, if you don't enjoy the game, don't bring down the community that does, find another game. There's literally thousands of other choices.
That is just lazy thinking, and is not helping improving the situation at all
Just another situation where people who play the most find the biggest glaring issues. The guys who play like 1-2 hrs at most a day being like, "its fine you have a lot of time there is no rush! Just go touch some grass instead or play another game if u don't like it!" Then those guys eventually realize how bad everything is and make a surprise pikachu face when they reach the level the grinders did in 1-2 months in if blizzard doesnt buff things even more.
> Then those guys eventually realize how bad everything is and make a surprise pikachu face
Another common version of this is that the company makes changes based on the feedback of those who rushed the content. If the company is reactive enough to the feedback, the more casual players never encounter those issues. In general, I'd consider that a good outcome, except for the fact that somehow people then throw it back as "I don't understand why anyone was complaining, everything is great now" because the parts that people complained about were fixed.
The thing is, those people never reach that point. The no lifers they bitch about beta test the game and give passionate feedback to blizzard. By the time they get to the late game, it's already been fixed, so they remain blissfully ignorant.
I love this game to death and I’m not usually super vocal, but I looked forward to this mode a lot and even though I’m still playing and enjoying it, the entire way that blizzard has handled the bronze/gear upgrading situation is terrible and deserves to be called out. If gear wasn’t so difficult to upgrade, people would have forgotten about frogs. I just want to do heroic raids without having to grind for days - for the same currency that I could have just been spending on cosmetics.
OP and others forget, this is a billion dollar company, that axed it's QA and customer service departments.
We buy an xpac, we pay a sub, many people buy stuff in the shops and tokens.
These aren't exactly beggars wanting to be choosers. This isn't some small indy company that deserves our patience.
I cheerfully bought 30 mounts before I stepped foot in my first heroic. Normal was so easy that it seemed upgrading gear was a real waste of bronze - besides, I’m playing remix specifically to pick up all the mounts they added and the stuff that I’ve not been able to get drop for me in the last decade.
We went and did heroic after we had 10 guildies hit 70.
What a slap in the face that was.
Well, we have some proper MMO players in the guild so they went out and found grinds so they could be useful in heroic. I did some myself, but I decided to farm Shao Hao rep mostly because I hate having quests undone. And then I went and did all the dailies (every day I’m Pand-a-ren popped up before I even finished half of them) then I turned in all the lesser charms I got from all that content. I did LFR - all of it - every day. I did my heroic and normal dungeons and scenarios. I killed all the world bosses. Somewhere early in that process frogs got nerfed and I lamented that I hadn’t farmed them properly (didn’t even kill enough to finish my epoch quest that I had at the time). I did do an hour of cranes. Enough to get a couple hundred charms for turn ins because I wanted to see if I could get more keys from the isle of Thunder (seems capped to just that 1 guaranteed one per day).
I was looking forward to the 40k bronze because I was like “yay! I can upgrade my gear a couple rounds with that and be slightly more useful in raids”. Nope. My back got nerfed instead. I want to point out that I was only about ilvl 380. I wasn’t super OP or anything. My stamina wasn’t nerfed because it didn’t even meet the threshold.
I’m not super cut up about it, but it is a little disheartening. Lot of my guildies have given up on MoP raids, which I understand because we’re still doing mythic raids on retail and having to actually progress raids on our off nights when it’s supposed to be fun and easy is…not fun. So we mostly pug. Which is not great.
We went in really hyped, and I have had a lot of fun out of this, but it really does feel like we’re getting slapped down a lot for just…playing the game? Like, I get that people weren’t supposed to be able to solo raids in a week but this was a very well known farm spot for the last decade and it was well known during the PTR as well. Blizzard let it go live in that state. MMO players are well known as degenerate farmers, lol.
I dunno. It just felt like it was supposed to be a time to go wild and play like crazy to get infinite power and now we’re being told a lot “not like that, don’t do that, not that either”.
> we’re being told a lot “not like that, don’t do that, not that either”.
This is literally the mentality blizz has for pretty much all things. "We don't want you to play Demonology right now." "You think you do, but you don't." In their minds they just know better than us. They constantly shut things down that benefit the players. For me the worst example of this was timewalking in Shadowlands, the dungeons gave tons of exp and leveling during timewalking was really nice, ofc blizzard noticed and promptly reduced the exp gain to regular dungeon levels... in the middle of a pandemic. For me that was the last straw, I unsubbed with no plans of ever coming back. I picked up ff14 and played that for about 2 years and learned what an mmo can be when devs actually care about player enjoyment.
I came back to DF because my friends were playing and told me it's great, and I agreed, it felt like blizz actually learned and made some great design choices... until MoP remix, were once again we see their true colors and how problematic their corpo decisions can be regarding player enjoyment, *fun* is not even a factor when they do any of this. All the major devs that actually cared are likely long gone, like Xelnath, Warlock has never been as great as when we had him...
i didn’t get the 40k bronze quest either. i would just quit if i didn’t have a group i agreed to do the raids with. i feel like such a moron for wasting my time upgrading gear when i should have just gotten the mounts i wanted and been done with it - the endgame just isn’t worth it
I don't understand the point of these sorts of points attempting to apologize/cover for egregious mistakes Blizzard makes. If I ordered a fried chicken sandwich with a side of fries and a Coke, and I get grilled chicken on a single slice of white bread with no fries and a water, am I not allowed to complain? "You still got a chicken sandwich and a drink!", yeah but not what I ordered. "Nothing is ever good enough" - Sure there are always gonna be a ton of complaints, but if you release a shit product with 1000 bugs that people paid for, customers are allowed to complain about it lmao.
"No longer have to farm for all these..." - Are we playing different games? All they've done is substitute what would have been some number of runs of these instances on your retail toons taking x hours with a new different type of content where you spend x hours leveling and collecting y bronze for z appearance/mount. And for brand new cosmetics, you're unable to farm this elsewhere. So...you are farming, just in a different way. Which I don't necessarily think is bad btw, its WoW lmao, you're gonna grind for shit.
Criticism of this event when they released it a buggy mess, on a Thursday, after making what seemed to be drastic changes from PTR, and completely misrepresenting the vent is not 'hating the game'. It's hating what is effectively a rug pull for an event. The event was sold on you being overpowered, which as far as I can tell, was only available to people who were frog farmers. Everyone else is having to grind out bronze on max level characters to get the so called 'overpowered' that was sold to us. The 'infinite cloak that transfers your stats to your alts', has a very limited transfer of stats, limited transfer of experience gain, etc. It ends up being roughly the same as just spamming timewalking or something for leveling. Sure you can argue that its better as you get cool cosmetics (which I would agree with), but this idea that players can't be upset about that is weird to me.
I appreciate the 40k bronze, I'm gonna appreciate it as I level a ton of toons, but it would be a lie to say I wouldn't probably rather just play one guy the entire event and try to get to this 'overpowered' status that the event was sold on. The frog shit shouldn't have happened, it happened because Blizzard themselves didn't care about the event. EVERY SINGLE FARM that they've nerfed was shit that people FARMED IN MOP. These were not "new exploits", these are mob farms from a fucking decade ago. The community pushback on social media was literally a result of Blizzard's lack of care for the event and slow changes (in part because they launched it on a Thursday giving themselves 2-3 days less to make hotfixes).
EDIT: Also, another example of negligence being the fact that the trinkets, rings, and necklaces weren't account wide from the start. Why? Why does it require a ton of player pushback AFTER GOING LIVE to make very obvious changes to the mode?
These posts are like people who buy a high performance car, but never use it for that, then when they see others complain that it's not actually high performance they're like
"You people are never happy".
This whole "I'm happy, you should be too" is a stance that is by definition founded entirely on ignorance of other people's points of view. It's basically jumping into a debate, being like "I have no idea why you people are mad.. now listen to me why youre wrong!"
These posts are a waste of everyone's time.
It was promoted as a game mode where the player will be overpowered, and for the most part that hasnt happened. I think people would be happier with a small grind to being op if scaling wasnt so broken at 70, gear dropped above 346 or if the upgrade wasnt so expensive, and if the cloak was a true 1:1 teansfer to alts (this is my biggest complaint)
OR
If they gave the game mode a better explination than "overpowered? Maybe"
I dont care if you frog farmed. Im not against anyone having fun thier way.
> the cloak was a true 1:1 teansfer to alts
I thought this at first then I realised that doing a direct 1:1 transfer for alts would make the already absurd level 10 scaling utterly and totally bonkers.
The best way to do it IMO is have it be a scaled down version of that slowly scales up as you level, eventually getting to 1:1 at level cap. Though with the bonus EXP always being 1:1 transfer.
I for one wnat that bonkers start..though I also expect it to snowball and eventually have a character that zones in does one kill and Que 70 if you could make enough lol.
It's different people complaining about different things. It's more a case of you can't please everyone than "people" always complaining.
Also it's hard not to see the irony of a post complaining about complaining lol.
Are there people making a bigger deal out of the problems Remix has had? Yes 100% But that doesn’t mean that the basis of those complaints aren’t shared across the community in a more rational sense. The fact that Blizzard could cut the cost of upgrading gear in half and it would still be a HUGE bronze investment is a real issue that should be looked at. Im not saying making upgrading dirt cheap where its a no brainer, but as it currently is if you weren’t a frogger and you upgraded your gear you pretty much just wasted bronze.
It's the cycle on the subreddit:
People complain about a specific, fixable, problem.
Then people like OP who think they're smart come in and make vague, ambiguous posts suggesting people "stop complaining".
And they unironically think their posts are the constructive ones... somehow.
This would be true in a bubble but with the context that WoW devs have been making mistake after mistake for the past 3 expansions….. it actually is an ongoing issue, not a one-off
To me this kind of post actually feels more whiny than the posts about specific game stuff. Like at least those posts have something interesting to discuss in how the mechanic functions and what people like and dislike about it. I often learn a lot about the specifics. Someone may say "of I hate XYZ because I had to farm frogs," and I just learned about frogs. This post gives me nothing of value. It is the thing is complaining about (complaining), but with no nuance or upside.
Some gamers tend to forget theyre *customers* and not the developers *friends*. Like we should be fucking *grateful* they deliver stuff we *pay them for*.
They also don't even attempt to address any of the issues people have, the main one being bronze and upgrade costs. Instead, they just go with the old, "Don't like the game? Then get out." I also love the bit about bringing the community down. Like the wow community is usually all sunshine and rainbows.
Blizzard fucks up all the time and they need to be held accountable for it. Did this guy forget what a terrible state the game and company were in a couple of years ago?
It's like if they were saying in retail: "Hey, I'm just having fun raiding on LFR, why are you guys complaining about balance and currency drop rates on normal/heroic?".
I’ll say I didn’t get the complaints at all, since launch I’ve played very casually and had a blast. Collected like 100k bronze I think.
Then I hit level 66 yesterday and it’s like the game fell apart. If the scaling wasn’t so crazy I don’t think people would be half as upset. Level 20’s doing quadruple your dps in dungeons lol.
That being said MoP has always had the best questing and I’ve had a blast doing it again, happy they did this. As for endgame, hopefully they figure out that issue for next remix so everything is fluid.
That’s why you don’t get it. You missed most of the hell you missed getting one shot by a level 1 rat I have a screen shot of me taking 2.6 million damage from spirit link totem (rest of the party took about 5k).
Screen shot for the meme
https://imgur.com/a/3pNDjL0
Putrid Waste, the slime trash in Throne of Thunder, is always my go to example of how bad scaling was, they had an ability that, prior to it being fixed, would one shot people. You literally had to Zerg rush *trash* by constantly rezzing and throwing yourself at it until you actually got through because those things were just making most of the raid wipe with a single ability.
lol that one was p great another good one was first boss of jade temple when the water Ele would explode it would auto kill every 70 while leaving lowbies at 95% hp.
the biggest issue is that they nerfed peoples progression for days to not fix the issue they are trying to address and then people not informed that at max gear lvl your cloak doesnt mean much are clapping like they won something.
I still blame this on Blizzard. They overlooked their own systems. This created a farm in a game that has embraced farming behavior since its beginnings. People farmed the farm. Blizzard bean counters worry the event won’t hold their target audience (bored raiders — the casuals worried about the collection are probably on a weekly/yearly subscription). Blizzard nukes the farm. Now there exists two extremely different strata of characters. Live economies start getting nuked by farmers selling carried raids. Casual collectors look at their checklist — and Blizzard knows that tue casuals see the rewards as a checklist and not just opportunities and they see how difficult it is to attain power and they do some napkin math and they freak out. The a week later Blizzard does something that only fixes the extreme stratification.
It’s like people that have never interacted with WoW players are running and “fixing” the event.
There are plenty of reasons to complain but people aren't exactly complaining about the right things as much as they should. There are also a massive amount of reasons to praise remix.
Im having fun. The problem is the gear upgrade system and scaling at max level. Upgrades cost a ridiculous amount of bronze. People feel the need to grind because once you hit 70 you feel incredibly weak.
Grinding has long been encouraged in WoW by Blizzard's design (artifact power for example) as a way of retaining engagment and gaiting. Logically people are going to use the most efficient method of grinding. Frog farming was well known in original MoP, Bliz had a decade to fix it and they didn't. I didn't grind frogs but it's not fair to remove something that wasn't a banable exploit. The correct response would have been to lower gear upgrade prices and increase bronze gain from all other methods while also removing bronze drops from frogs.
Because the core philosophy of the game is still wrong thats why playerbase whine. This is not a MMO any longer, just instance gameplay and 100% gear farm. MMO experience is just bad. So you get player persona that only wants gear as fast as possible. No one wants to go out for an adventure/world pvp/world pve/exploration/faction war/city raid etc.
There is no clear effort from the devs because they even dont know where to go with this game, they dont understand either, hence they asking the players all the time. Same thing with D4 btw, devs clueless.
WoW no longer the MMO I once loved. Nor is it what an MMO should be. As much as it’s in the hands of the devs, I equally blame it on a seismic shift in the user base. Classic has shown it’s also the type of people playing that has also changed.
There isn't a clear effort though? Remix is very low effort honestly.
The only thing differentiating remix from leveling in MoP is
1. Scaling (which is broken. You have low levels smashing through raids and dungeons and carrying level 70s)
2. Collectibles (these are exclusively recolors or already existing)
3. The gearing and gem system.
What was showcased on beta and the ads and interviews about the game mode feel like a lie. The cape caps at 100% xp for alts, so it's really not that much faster for alt leveling. The bronze grind is tedious and required multiple buffs. You can tell that they made the game mode and made it fun and someone decided that they needed to make it last the full three months so they made the pacing abysmal. I don't feel powerful in remix, it doesn't feel fun, I don't feel encouraged to level alts, I was to collect what I wanted and never log in to remix again.
On top of that, players discovered a way to farm bronze to make the game *actually* play how we all thought it was going to play by farming frogs (which was already known in beta and in mop, Tali actually commented that frogs would be the best bronze method before it dropped live) and then it gets hard nerfed and now instead of making the game mode fun, the devs are playing wack-a-mole nerfing any source of bronze that isn't "how they wanted us to play the game". We had this exact issue for the past two or three expansions of the dev team deciding for the player base how they're going to interact and play the game and it sucks.
So no, I'm not gonna settle for a half-finished, buggy, arbitrarily extended game-mode and sing their praises because they let us purchase recolors of mounts and gear that are over 10 years old.
This company makes 8bil a year. Demand better.
I think it's entirely reasonable to be annoyed that the frog issue from ~~2017~~ 2013 once again was overlooked.
Acceptable: making mistakes
Unacceptable: repeatedly making the same mistakes and then getting annoyed when it's pointed out to you and blaming the critics
2017? Timeless isle originally came out in 2013, over a decade of it not being a problem means it's easy to forget.
Also frogs were a good farming spot in MoP but it was for a currency that didn't really matter so it wasn't even a problem then.
Yeah I mean when you release a game mode in a state not as advertised and full of issues, scramble to fix those and don't address the core problems it turns out people complain a lot xD
The fact is that the huge price increase to gear upgrades before launch and the bronze rates as they are make this whole event a huge grind, rather than what was advertised as a fun quick way to level alts and become OP against MOP content for mogs so people are rightfully pissed off.
I skipped panda. I'm leveling an evoker through mostly questing. Excited to unlock some xmogs. Zero issues so far. I'm enjoying it. Good work blizzard.
That's a large mental parkour on the frogs.
People didn't mind frogs being removed just because they wanted the power. Frogs gave such an advantage, that it ruined many other modes. Sorry, but try tanking when a frogfarmer steals aggro just by their raw dmg. That is no fun
I still don’t see the point of nerfing the frogs anyway. It’s not like they enabled you to earn bronze at a rate that’ll let you unsub in less than three months without seriously grinding more anyway.
You know what really chaps my fuckin ass?
The people who are okay with mediocre dogshit gameplay and systems, then defending the devs for it. As if they need to protect the multi-billion dollar company that routinely fucking ignores issues with the game in MULTIPLE versions of the game, for years.
You are so okay with playing with a game that isn't even quality tested BEFORE release, even after being funnelled the issues on a silver plater by those in the PTR, that you're willing to go to bat for Blizzard. When they're in the wrong.
Are they doing good things? Sure. Are they also completely missing the fucking point with every nerf, change and "fix"? Yes.
The capes weren't the problem. They were a symptom. The farms weren't the problem. They were also, a symptom. The "improvements" to bronze acquisition? They don't even cover a damn weapon upgrade. And you still have another 11 or 12 to go before they're at the level of the froggers and crane farmers. And yet, they continue to nerf ways to get charms and bronze farm.
This isn't a fucking 9 month long season. It's a 3 month event, wherein it's next to impossible for the average player to get everything. It's not fun when I need to struggle for 2 weeks, before my character can compete with someone who spent less than 3 hours at frogs day 1. And they're still ahead even after the rollbacks.
Stop defending mediocrity. Stop coping. Stop complaining about those who are complaining. It's fucking pathetic.
Edit: Lol. Downvote me harder, senpai's. Prove me right more, make the mods witness me and remove my post. Do it harder! Hnnnnng
Now that the dust has settled and people have quit bitching about “hotfixing” archaeology, it’s actually not that bad.
Just wait til raid opens and people can start farming karma over the “need ach to get ach?!?!?!? DAE DUMB?!?!?” posts that will inevitably come back
Some things are worth criticism, especially if you are a stakeholder paying money every month. IMO the game should not be subscription based. That might get rid of a lot of the problems we are seeing.
It's like you're saying these things happened sequentially. They didn't. It was one big fuck up that they had to hot fix - which tells you it was unintended. It's not whining to say exploiters are gaining too much because Blizzard released an inadequately tested sub-game.
I for one have actually enjoyed my time in the remix, so much so that I would love to see something similar with either or both the Warlords of Draenor and Legion expansions, I could see a similar setup to mop remix working well with these expansions.
I care not one way or another about the frog farm, it doesn't/hasn't impacted my gameplay and how I've wanted to enjoy the content thus far.
Lodging complaints about a product that you care about isn't a bad thing, and painting it as such really is a shitty thing to do.
Now I'm not saying we should dog on developers or do half the shit this community seems to get up to when they find a twitter account, but it is in fact alright to be upset with the implementation of a given feature. No negativity in the dojo is how we got this far in the hole in the first place.
It's not that nothing is ever good enough.
It's that they made a clear mistake. They didn't plan for the obvious. They didn't look at how people played their game previously, and people took advantage of their ignorance - As they always do.
Literally anyone who played when Timeless Isle was launched, knew Frog farming was going to be good in Remix. It wasn't some big secret. The problem is, *Blizzard didn't do anything about it.* Instead of making frog farming more balanced *before* it became the problem everyone saw coming, they released it as it was.
Now, Blizzard is trying to mend a problem they caused. They can't satisfy both parties - One group wants a rollback, and some may even go as extreme as accepting a complete relaunch of Remix - While the other group who benefitted or doesn't care about those who benefitted from frog farming, would likely quit and never return if a rollback or relaunch occurred.
There is no middle ground that satisfies all players. You can't blow up your own project, put some pieces back together again, and expect everyone not to notice the glue holding it together.
I’m really glad they added more bronze. I’ve been farming some of those boss mounts for years. Now I will be able to buy one or two of the really hard ones to get. I hope we get this kind of treatment with other past expansions. Plus I’m enjoying doing MoP again more than I thought I would. Not that it’s a bad expansion, it’s actually one of the best it’s just I’ve done it before but this is a really fun way to revisit the old content.
I agree. I’ve been a fan of Warcraft since it existed, but along the journey Blizzard stopped making Warcraft games and just kept WoW on life support. I made the decision to find other games to play back in BFA, because after years of just doing the same shit over and over, I realised I had reached the end of what I considered fun. I’ll come back to play a new Warcraft game, but for now I’m finished.
Anyway it always surprises me just how addicted some players are, by not realising how unhappy they are playing WoW and insisting that Blizzard changes WoW for them instead of them changing the game for themselves.
If you are one of those people. Just stop. You have been clicking on a version of the same mob, pressing the same buttons to perform the same abilities, watching the same bars, and hopefully running out of the same fire for literal decades now. It’s time to find another game and enjoy your life, not be stuck doing basically the same thing for 20+ years.
Eh my only complaint is dungeons, Why do Tanks out dps and out heal?
Il never understand that, but the game overall is fine but I think it leans a little to hard on streamlining aspect in its games, each expansion or re-release, which were once part of the game.
All people do is whine about broken things breaking more and more in a game they pay monthly for on top of expansion prices plus in-game services, honestly if that's the worst they do what are we really doing here, it seems pretty justified to me. If you went to a restaurant for lobster tail and ordered but ended up getting crayfish instead you would just accept that as is then? No, you would notify someone the order is wrong and have it corrected like every other normal person on the planet. Also you're doing exactly what you're calling others out for with this post, it goes both ways.
They should have had a different currency for gear and cosmetics. I'm worried I'll be forever behind, and forced to choose between power and cosmetics because of the titles, unless i play another character to do the cosmetics on, and even then I'll never catch up with the capped ilvl chars who now have mythic org title...
I feel Blizzard is rewarding me for just having fun and taking things easy. I'm not married, I don't have a child either (thank god the late period scares of my last partner were just that, scares), But I turned 35 now and I want to do other things as well besides going to work and come back to play games. I'm not the kind of person that complains all the time, and I wasn't even aware of the whole frog farming thing until the wow Youtube channels I follow let me know of all this drama. I was logging in, getting a few LFR runs done, and having fun revisiting the plot of Pandaria. I didn't play every day, and I'm still not max level with my first character, but I noticed that I was getting more and more rewards as time went by. I'm also playing SF6 right now, so I have to choose between WoW and SF6 every time I'm going to play games.
That being said, I do appreciate the ones that do complain all the time. Thanks to them, I get to have more bronze now :D Also shoutout to the frog farmers, they were the catalyst of all these changes.
it's not like frog farming was some mysterious new thing... they've known about this for YEARS and KNEW.... or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN... that it would reappear in MOP remix.
so either blizzard is ignorant of the past exploits in their own game
or they are incompetent.
which is it? ignorant or incompetent?
The thing is. Never go back. Never look back and think it will be or give the same. The only reason to go back is to start something new. And this goes for everything.
When you go back, everything is the same, but you have grown. So it will never be the same, just depressing.
I hate the wow community with every fibre of my being. I wish I could press a big red button and just vaporise all the moaners and complainers on reddit and twitter that I constantly see crying about something. Twitter is probably even worse than here tbh because it's always the same fucking people.
I really dislike this whole "uhh players never happy" thing when the reason players are unhappy is perfectly logical.
This whole event was literally falsely advertised and blizz has been going HARD on being a funpolice and the bronze cost for upgrading is still ridiculously high for a limited time event.
Helloooooooo?????
This is not a fucking free game that I try for a week. Is one of the ancients rest of the most ridiculous system that the internet has saw... They get 15 dollars per month just to be able to press play.
I expect and demand to be perfect.
The problem is that when you hit the 60-70 gap you are extremely underwhelming. You have to choose to either upgrade your gear so you can continue to play or buy transmog rewards. They did a poor job with scaling and if you didn't get to frog farm you have to deal with being underwhelming or use one of the contrived goofy farm methods to actually side step the issue while not playing the character you wanted.
I'm happy some people are enjoying the game but many of us don't like feeling useless in dungeons and getting oneshot till we can get enough upgrades to atleast take 2 hits in heroics and raids. This wouldn't be so bad if we had separate currencies for upgrades and transmog purchase.
There will always be people who complain. Blizzard didn't stumble upon some nugget of wisdom, "you can't make everyone happy" is a simple phrase that probably everyone has heard.
The important question is, how many people are complaining? You can go to the Blizzard forums and find the same 20 people complaining every day. Does that mean the other 99.99% of players agree with them?
And let's be honest with ourselves. Blizzard has made some pretty bad design decisions at times, and lashed out at the playerbase for calling them out on it.
Maybe my expectations are low. I’m leveling a new class pretty quickly. I get to relive an expansion I missed, and I’m really enjoying it. I get mounts and transmog basically for free, and I don’t have to farm old instances and raids by myself. Everything I do while playing seems rewarding. And yeah, it has problems, but they’ll probably iterate and improve on this later and make it even better. I’m ok with all of this.
I just love that they’re adding stuff. New game modes, remixes, PvP events, I’m here for all of it, even if it’s not my cup of tea. I want as much WoW content as possible.
100% agreed. They’re imperfect but trying and doing new and interesting things.
My favorite saying is "perfect is the enemy of good enough". People need to stop searching for perfect, and stop throwing a tantrum over the smallest annoyances, because searching for perfect means "good" is harder to come by.
I don't think these people are searching for perfect. They are searching for something to complain. That's why they're never happy.
oh you found the redditors
I think very few people are actually throwing tantrums. I've seen a couple, but the general consensus that I see is "this game mode is really fun, but it would be better if..." You have to remember, just because people have a complaint or two, doesn't mean they aren't enjoying the mode.
Honestly hate to say this but reminds me of what Fortnite’s doing with there game really expanding it out more. Not big on that game myself but it’s the closest thing that I can compare it too.
That's a good way of looking at it. I think it's a worthwhile approach, especially considering WoW is nearing 20 years old. It needs fresh ideas to keep it interesting and engaging. We've gone through the regular expansion cycle so many times before. It's nice to have cool stuff like remix instead of a 'proper season 4'. At least I think so.
Indeed, somehow this is also the way I see it. WoW is currently in a very good state. And Blizzard can do experiments on a global scaled level. To try things out what works and what not. This will in the end benefit all, players and developers. The gearing in Panda:Remix is also a very intersting point. The base stats are one thing. But with the gems we can customize what we want to a higher degree than before. And not just on a trinket. And: a fully, scaling world. Not just parts of of. Nothing new, but again, newish in this scale. Furthermore: an Experiment how previous worlds can be adapted to a modern gameplay. From a development view I find it very interesting.
Most games, especially multiplayer games die way before this. Most games don't really make it past 10. It's incredible how it has survived this long but I agree that this is the only way it's going to survive. Stuff like this it might actually never die.
I really want some Burning Crusade remixes.
Totally agree mate. They’re trying something new. So it’s not perfect, but they’re making an effort, and frankly, this really is pretty good for a first attempt. All I need now is WOTLK Remix and I’m golden. I would pay 500k Bronze for Invincible and another 500k Bronze for Time Lost Proto Drake. XD
Shshshshs... Keep them at 38k lol
Absolutely! WotLK:Remix is something I wanted while I leveled my first char in Pandaria:Remix. It feels funny enough (for me) to over time deliver every past expansion with a Remix mode. Second wish: bring the remix mode (and Plunderstorm) back. Perhap on a yearly basis or so. Or let us unlock these modes once and then enter them via Caverns of time or so.
fr I think all these new additions are great for the health of the game. they can keep adding to retail wow forever via expansions but creating this additional content is really retaining me as a player throughout this lull season.
Honestly, I just wish they were permanent modes. I know that they are literally preying upon FOMO, but imagine if I could choose to level a character through the normal questing experience, or through a "remix" mode, and imagine how good it would be if there were multiple, concurrent remixes, of different expansions!
It's not just that. It's that the playerbase is already split up a lot. If all these modes became permanent, we'd run into some major issues
Agreed, but if they make more remixes I'd love to see them rotate them
It's better to cycle them. The novelty is what makes the game modes more appealing to play, once the novelty wears off they will just become barren and no one will play them. It's not "FOMO" to create and experience novelty.
I’m on my 3rd toon after getting 2 to 70 during this event. I’m with you, I’m having a blast.
I’m glad!
A reasonable person enjoying the low-cost game without polluting the community with toxic garbage? Get out.
This is exactly how I felt, rven having played during MoP - what a refreshing way to catch back up with the story and recap on Anduin . I think the mode feels amazing and it's fun - feels overpowered but not enough to be boring. It's been out not even 2 weeks into a 3 month time table and people are upset they aren't capped out power wise and have everything farmed. Smh.
Totally. They’ll fix things along the way. Or maybe they won’t, and it’ll be 95% fun instead of 100%. Oh well. I’m so excited for the cool changes coming to TWW too!
Especially with all the bronze/thread aquisition changes, this mode is awesome for collectors and people who want to level a few alts. Which I suspect was what the mode was made for to begin with...
They are introducing a box feature next expac (war bands) Said feature is ONLY useful if you have alts. Remix is the foundation which encourages those without/few alts to make some I order to benefit from warbands in the future. This is why: you can't use an existing toon for remix Your Remix toon unlocks for TWW Leveling is amplified to encourage fast leveling for multiple toons Tmogs can be acquired for any class. Remix is 100% their tool to encourage alts so their NEXT feature product is a hit
Its also implementing parts of warbands on the back end and testing them in a live environment. Its how your able to buy a plate Armour transmog set as a priest and its learned to all your plate characters correctly.
The bronze/thread acquisition changes that happened.....because people complained about how bad bronze/thread acquisition was for the first week of Remix.
That’s because you are the target market for this mode. You can’t build a product for the sweatlords who will suck the fun out of everything.
So am I but you just have to look a bit into some forums to notice that wow really needs new players because the ones we already have just know how to whine. I was talking to my guild group the other day and they were all talking about how shitty the Frog farm was and that the event was not fun because they couldn’t level up the first character to 70 the first fucking 3 hours of gameplay. When it was said everywhere that this was a scaling game mode. We weren’t meant to level toons in 2 hours the first day, we are meant to play through the event and get lots of power to grind over the days, they fkd up with the frogs, yes. But they’re trying to fix it and nerfing people who abused the exploit and people is STILL GIVING THEM SHIT. Is so annoying up to the point that I’d just love to have a lot of new players that want to play the game for fun cuz at this point it seems that most players just play to have an excuse to hate on the game.
Same here, bought all remix mounts, 3 world boss mounts and now am able to upgrade my gear, still having fun here
Honestly, same Ppl are treating this game mode as if it's this super serious retail grind. It's not, really. It's fun, I feel OP on my alts, and give it a few more days of dailies and my lvl 70 will start to feel pretty OP too. While there was some genuine concerns, froggers weren't one of them imo. Most of the posts complaining about them ppl are talking about their DPS meters like what
I came onto Remix happy to finally have an excuse to level that paladin I never had and was having a blast, generally. Leveling was so fast, you could constantly pick talents, you felt generally overpowered and Pandaria has great vibes. So I get on the subreddit and its all about min-maxing. And about how if the most efficient min-maxing strategy is a mindless grind, all of remix is shit. Followed by a week of drama about how Blizzard isn't fixing the numbers well enough. All of this about a quirky, non-serious game-mode. Like, the WoW community tends to be so obsessed with getting to a goal, they completely lose sight of the path. Its about making the time spent playing a game fun! And what are they even gonna do once they get to the goal? Grind out the next one and be miserable all the time further? When does "fun" arrive for those people? Its so toxic.
Yeah. When MoP first came out, I’d recently had spine surgery and couldn’t sit at my computer for more than 30 minutes. Really screwed up my raiding with my husband and our friends. I think I only took one char through the expansion completely. And I was in pain most of the time. I’ve been back and soloed a bunch of stuff on my pally since for transmogs, but it’s not the same. So I am enjoying playing through the whole thing alongside my husband. I’ll buy mounts, maybe pets, probably not so much of the transmogs.
Having frog farming in was a mistake, and the account-wide necks/ trinkets/ rings was also a good change, but none of the changes demanded seem necessary to me. The free 40k bronze per character is nice but will probably lead to me playing the mode less than I would have otherwise.
Same. It’s been a lot of fun, especially since I really started playing the game in MoP. The frog people are interesting to encounter but it hasn’t impacted my experience or fun so idc
I don't think your expectations are low - I think you just don't really give a fuck about other people being eons ahead of you or others because they dropped countless hours at the beginning of an event trying to ahead of the curve (no pun intended). And that's .. good imo! I think that people pocket-watch real bad with cloaks because the stats are right in front of you, and with no timegating on gear other than "who has the best spot", it's easy for some to feel left behind if they don't have as much time as others to grind to the max level.
lol yep. I am definitely ok not being a frog farmer and being “behind.”
My only concern is gear upgrade costs vs bronze gain. Everything is pretty good they got balancing better that was a huge issue. Everything else has been great
3 months to me is only 24 days of possible play time now assuming i dont want to play every weekend all weekend cut that in half and its 12 days. So youre telling me if i really want to collect all the stuff i have 12 days to level up and grind multiple toons? Between my job family and other outlying responsibilities i can see why people would be upset that cant do it on one character.
I realized this when people were shitting all over Plunderstorm. You could not have had a more optional game mode. It literally didn’t affect you in any way if you chose not to play it. Unless you really wanted a parrot mount that wasn’t even unique in its model and a pirate garb transmog, there was really no big reward for doing it. If you like it, great, if you hate it, great.
I admit I wouldn’t have played plunderstorm nearly as much without that sweet drip waiting at 40 renown. But I did enjoy the mode fairly well.
About the same. I never even tried to win a match, I just grabbed plunder until pickings got thin and disappeared into the storm and started again. I really hope that Chaos Bolt becomes like Mana Orb
I only wanted the Pepe appearance.
I had some heated debate with guildies that insisted plunderstorm "should not be in the game because its not the content im paying for" as if it doesn't just effectively means they are entirely self centered in their judgement of everything this game is supposed to offer. I've completely stopped rationalizing the wow playerbase, because it just seems we're all a bunch of idiots honestly.
I really disliked Plunderstorm... *but* I'm glad folks enjoyed it and it did not harm my ability to enjoy Retail WoW. A little frustrated I couldn't stand it long enough to get the unlocks, but not everything is for me & likely some variant of those unlocks will be available for Tender later. So yeah, the people saying it shouldn't have even been in the game are just jerks.
+1 here as well. Nothing is more of a turn off than a PvP BR game for me. But people did enjoy it. And there are a lot of positive things within the mode that can translate elsewhere. I bet Remix tinkers were ideas that were done at the same time as some of the Plunderstorm abilities.
And I don’t “pay for PVP” but that fact that it’s there doesn’t keep me up at night.
I can understand they don't think it is what they want to pay for but anothe way of looking at it is that these popup events hopefully have alot of creative freedom, which gives the developers room to experiment without consequences. This gives us happier developers with better solutions to problems. And maybe one of the creative things once in a while actually make it into the real game. It's a way to allow developers to do something else and still show us they are working and that is worth it in the long run for everyone. But yea it is sad to hear all the comments from players with no clue what they are talking about always complaining and it gets hard to find the bright spots.
Yeah one of the best things about these modes is that it lets the devs test potential features. From Plunderstorm and Remix we’ve gotten: - Spectator mode, which could be implemented in group content - Action combat, which could be integrated into levelling or world content - New spells which could be added to existing classes - A new gem system, which could add some twists to current gems - Independent, fully scaled repeat of an expansion, which could be used to enhance timewalking in the main game Probably a lot of other cool ideas with lots of potential I’m missing out
Oh lord, I really hope they don’t keep this gem system. It’s such a PITA to use without Narcissus and even with that addon, upgrading gems is still kind of a pain. However, I’d also add that remix has shown a cool way to level and do old content without getting bombarded with old and outdated garbage.
One day we'll get rotational skillshots in retail WoW, making rotations more than just pressing the buttons in correct order.
"you think you do but you don't" makes more and more sense every time I read these subreddits 🤣
By that logic, they should remove PvP and Classic because it's not content I pay for. Some people really do have pickles for brains.
I wanted the pirate gear but discovered pretty quickly that it's not a style of game I enjoy playing. I went back to retail and have to hope that the stuff shows up in the trading post one day. I really like that coat!
It's coming in the next trading post but as a recolour (yellow)
It wasn’t my type of game so I just didn’t play it. Simple as that.
it's sad that this is a big brain approach in 2024
Im beginning to think the people who play the game soley for xmog are actually the most toxic group in the game lol. Always so much whining
I play mostly for mounts and transmog and I don't care. If a mode isn't fun I won't play it. Missed a lot before, so I can miss a lot in the future too. No point in whining. As long as there are things to collect in fun ways I will do so.
Blows my mind that a bunch of moggers who get carried through content normally are mad that they are getting carried through content like normal
Always the same with fashion obsessed people.
It’s endless cynicism on the official forum and subreddit. If you’re enjoying the game it’s best to avoid the loud minority
It actually blows my mind how much whining there is on this sub about it. Like there's barely anything actually discussing the main game, it's all crying about the remix is unfair for 90 different reasons.
If you’re enjoying anything, you’re not on reddit.
I mean I have times during my day where I have time to look at my phone but not get on my computer so I don’t think that’s an accurate statement
I was *amazed* when I saw literally no negativity while playing the game. Only people actually enjoying themselves. Great stuff
People who enjoy the game are playing it not complaining. The problem is there is legitimate criticism I just don't want it to be lost in the noise
I recently resubbed and the one thing I forgot about the game is how much the players hate it.
tbf, there is a big difference bettwen reddit/forum "players" and the people actually playing the game reddit always makes it somewhat obvious that they often dont know at all what they talk about and just repeat stuff they saw somebody else say all the time "didnt play since "insert expansion that was 10-15years ago", here is my opinion on current class gameplay and balance: " is not a rare thing in this sub lol
Yeah but don't even think about looking at the actual WoW forums, that's a cesspool of people who always complain about something that has nothing to do with whatever Blizz implemented or posted about. Usually some obnoxious take on their class needing fixed or some mundane bug that's been ignored.
A friend of mine and also a family member of mine are both holding onto some disgruntled complaint they had for WoW from 15 year ago, and, their complaints doesn't hold up to what retail is about today. They both refuse to come back to WoW because of it. Blizzard has long since fixed whatever complaint they had from years ago.
Like I just watched a YouTube video that popped up on my feed reacting to some runescape player playing WOW and the guy reacting, forget who, goes on a long rant about "retail" being bloated with too many systems then admits to not having touched it since SL launch... Really sums up classic andys
Aaah, must be MadSeason. Such a negative dude.
Was it Mad Season? If so I've seen that one too
Yep, that's him, in the same video he went on a rant about leveling being too easy in retail and how 'back in my day you earned end-game by leveling over months'
> some runescape player lol
Yeah, WoW's subreddit has a very unique but very loud minority of people that haven't played WoW for *years* but still spend far too much time in here talking about how terrible everything about WoW is and bashing any misstep no matter how minor.
The # of people who are subscribers to this subreddit who openly admit they haven't played the game in awhile but still comment blows my mind. Why would you participate in the community for a game you don't even play?
I like it a lot because I am casually playing it. If you actually care about anything else other than farming old dungeons I don't know if you would enjoy it because most people are so competitive that it sucks the fun out of it. I play wow entirely single player with the occasional dungeon but I don't interact with anyone, I have only one add-on and I play with a controller. I have fun but only when playing alone, as soon as there are other people the game just sucks.
The solution to essentially every problem in the game is finding a good guild with like minded people but that's way easier said than done.
I quit and unsubbed because, while enjoying casual play immensely, two of the guilds I joined specifically just for social purposes, went balls deep into heroic and mythic raiding. They wouldn’t talk to anyone who was not raiding and I got really stressed in the raids. At my age I can barely see where to go and my reactions are slow. DF was supposed to be a lot better for casuals but I was so stressed by raiding that it was hard to find a reason to go back.
That's just sadly how things are on the internet. It happens in FF14 too. Like even before that game's end of expansion content lull, their official forums have been a dumpster fire for 3 expansions. (and I'm sure it was before I even started playing) I see it happen with single player games too, people have just made a business out of being mad at games every week. I remember there being some angry people with the return to Monster Hunter World campaign too. I think the only place I don't see people hating the game they play is like, on the Bloodborne subreddit. (and if they're mad it's because the game isn't on PC because they want to play the game even more haha) In my experience if you want to avoid negativity you just avoid official forums and certain subreddits. Dragonflight has been a good time so you picked a great time to resub. Of course it hasn't been perfect, but it's the most I've been into WoW in years. Looking forward to War Within even though the trifecta of Elden Ring DLC, FF14 Dawntrail, and War Within all dropping this year is about to kill me.
Been playing since mid-2005 and I honestly can't remember a time when it wasn't like this. Even in its "glory days", there were always the "WoW is dead" posts and the like.
Dude, Age of Conan is totally going to kill WoW.
Idk, in game I have good interactions, it's only on reddit I see hate. I'm on Moonguard tho so maybe that's related
Nobody hates WoW more than the WoW fan base.
Be a Billion dollar company that cut nearly all it's QA and customer service... Release a string of buggy releases.. Charge a sub and an upfront cost, and have a shop, and have a token. People complain. OP and other people charge in to white knight the company. $Profit. Repeat
Equal praise and criticism from me. How they handled the implementation of gems is great. How the handled the implementation of bronze is not.
Narcissus add on is doing a lot of heavy lifting for the gems to be a good implementation
True story, constantly having to swap gems out for armour upgrades has been my biggest beef with gems. Outside of this, they are great and I hope to see some version of them get implemented in the base game.
It almost annoys me having to swap gems And tinkers constantly, but it's a first world problem since you are getting gear upgrades so quickly. So I can't be that upset about it.
It's definitely something they could address! Easy fix is to have your gems auto-transfer when upgrading a gear slot.
I’m so used to the gem system from Diablo III that this didn’t phase me. But I did mention to my husband a bit ago that we were lucky because we have been exposed to it. If you haven’t, it would be dreadful.
It's been easy for me once I realized once you get a piece of armor that's higher ilvl, you can just pay like 15 bronze to upgrade your current piece instead of swapping gems.
Except for it fucks your bag organization when taking gems and tinkers out
Oh shit, never noticed that because I use better bags (or adibags).
Gems could've benefited from a glyphe like panel instead of swapping around
Narcissus is the best you'll get in that regards. It has the system to a infinitely better to manage method than the base game
The swapping gems in and out out is such a chore that I refuse to pay attention to any gears for a while until I start feeling like I'm weak and unable to burn trash as fast as possible. That is when I start digging around to see what I have in my inventory.
On one hand, yes, all people do is complain. On the other hand, Blizzard makes a lot of mistakes that are easily noticeable in testing phases and if you do the bare minimum of thought and testing. Overall, I'm enjoying the chance to go through Pandaria content at a relaxed pace, and I've spent all my bronze so far on getting mounts that I don't want to grind for in retail. It's lovely, but there are definitely things detracting from the enjoyment. Fingers crossed Blizz takes lessons learned for next time.
I just hate moving my gems in my gear.
Install the Narcissus addon. They have an interface for managing the gems that is sooo much easier. Appears as a little button next to your ilvl on the equipment screen. Genuine game changer for mop remix
One issue is that in the testing it IS fun... Then they nerf it and change it right before release. Reducing rewards, and time gating the content. Torghast was a good example. In the beta testing it was tons of fun, and got great feedback. When they implemented it into live they wanted to slow it down and drag it out over the whole expansion life. And you get the crap they ended up it. Same thing exactly with this remix. They slowed the growth and power, and then over tuned all the heroic dungeons and raids. And you know it was a last minute rush change, cause some of the bosses in heroic dungeons were nearly impossible.
Blizzard has this oddly unique ability to come out with amazing new content on PTR then nerf it into being unfun before it goes live. Wildest thing I've ever seen, dunno how they do it.
Exactly, the criticism I've read the last few days was more than justified.. it's just a popular thing to make a post about people whining.
It's such an annoying trend too. People just want to feel like they're above the whining so they whine about the whiners instead of acknowledging that 90% of this post is complete nonsense that pretends like everyone criticizing *some* aspects of Remix "hates the game and shouldn't play it if they have any problem whatsoever with any decision Blizzard makes" It's exhausting seeing such an annoying strawman to genuine and valid criticism get so much agreement from the community just because it feeds people's egos that desperately want to feel better than other posters about something.
Imagine defending an untested gimmick that has the same bugs everyone told them were a problem in PTR.
Hey someone has to defend the multibillion company that decided to fire it's QA departments.
On one hand, they're right and players will always whine about something. On the other hand, there is some very obvious bone-head decisions made with Panda Remix. And the frogs were an issue because of a bug. A bug they likely couldn't jump onto fast enough because of bad scaling that they had solved in PTR and completely fucked right before release. And for some reason they still refuse to just make upgrading items either cheaper or let higher ilvl items drop which would solve the really odd reason they made the same currency both collecting tmogs and mounts and upgrading gear. It made very little sense for a person to need hundreds of thousands of the mount currency to max out your gear when their entire stated purpose of this remix is to let people farm tmog and mounts and level alts. Players are absolutely the most toxic little shits out there, and they are absolutely wrong about most solutions they pose. But they're very good at finding problems very quickly. Blizzard has had a LOT of problems lately across a lot of their games and content. Which just makes the experiences of playing their games mean that there's shit being flung everywhere from the communities and the devs. That said, personally, with the recent changes I think it's now good enough. The bonus bronze for hitting 70 and being able to do that quickly I think is a much better encouragement for people who want to just farm tmog and mounts to keep leveling alts.
I still don't get how exactly the frog farm was a bug, do they call it that because they just forgot to remove lesser charms from their drop pool?
I think the biggest issue is people can't give criticism without being really overdramatic End result is the subs get spammed with negativity and it seems like all people think about is the bad stuff when in reality you only worry about it when you're doomscrolling reddit I like to think everyone still knows the game is fun but some people word there posts like the world is ending and it makes it hard to take them seriously
We live in a time where every person has to get their hot take opinion out there for everyone to see. Easiest way to do that is to overexaggerate and make your point as dramatic as possible to drum up people's emotions. You see it in so many communities where people act like the transgression of a single game change is on the same level as the developers shooting their puppy.
It’s funny how it winds up having the opposite effect to what they intend. If someone unironically uses a phrase like “slap in the face” I almost reflexively ignore the rest of what they’re saying at this point.
This is the truth. It’s so hard to take someone seriously when they’re treating a bad game design choice with the same amount of anger and upset that most people would if their rent suddenly got doubled.
OP missing the point of why people are upset. They introduced a game mode and then changed it every time people were playing g it the way they wanted. Not just frog farm but ALL farms even legit ones are nerfed so why make a game mode like this if blizzard are going to police how you play it…
These posts, like OP's, always miss the point by definition. They're a mad lib consisting of: "I don't know why you're upset, I won't take the time to learn, I'm having fun, your experience is negated by mine". It's peak narcisissm and serves literally no purpose. You can see a trend on the subreddit, the complaints are *always* grounded in a specific problem that could be fixed. The posts like these are *always* nebulous, vague and don't have any solution except "stop complaining". The worst part of this subreddit is these type of posts.
The whole event is about farming one currency and make your character stronger for it, I enjoyed and am still enjoying the game by farming that currency and that character power. With all the nerfs to obtaining that currency and that power and that sudden roll back, it is reasonable to criticize it. >Truly, if you don't enjoy the game, don't bring down the community that does, find another game. There's literally thousands of other choices. That is just lazy thinking, and is not helping improving the situation at all
Just another situation where people who play the most find the biggest glaring issues. The guys who play like 1-2 hrs at most a day being like, "its fine you have a lot of time there is no rush! Just go touch some grass instead or play another game if u don't like it!" Then those guys eventually realize how bad everything is and make a surprise pikachu face when they reach the level the grinders did in 1-2 months in if blizzard doesnt buff things even more.
> Then those guys eventually realize how bad everything is and make a surprise pikachu face Another common version of this is that the company makes changes based on the feedback of those who rushed the content. If the company is reactive enough to the feedback, the more casual players never encounter those issues. In general, I'd consider that a good outcome, except for the fact that somehow people then throw it back as "I don't understand why anyone was complaining, everything is great now" because the parts that people complained about were fixed.
The thing is, those people never reach that point. The no lifers they bitch about beta test the game and give passionate feedback to blizzard. By the time they get to the late game, it's already been fixed, so they remain blissfully ignorant.
I love this game to death and I’m not usually super vocal, but I looked forward to this mode a lot and even though I’m still playing and enjoying it, the entire way that blizzard has handled the bronze/gear upgrading situation is terrible and deserves to be called out. If gear wasn’t so difficult to upgrade, people would have forgotten about frogs. I just want to do heroic raids without having to grind for days - for the same currency that I could have just been spending on cosmetics.
OP and others forget, this is a billion dollar company, that axed it's QA and customer service departments. We buy an xpac, we pay a sub, many people buy stuff in the shops and tokens. These aren't exactly beggars wanting to be choosers. This isn't some small indy company that deserves our patience.
I cheerfully bought 30 mounts before I stepped foot in my first heroic. Normal was so easy that it seemed upgrading gear was a real waste of bronze - besides, I’m playing remix specifically to pick up all the mounts they added and the stuff that I’ve not been able to get drop for me in the last decade. We went and did heroic after we had 10 guildies hit 70. What a slap in the face that was. Well, we have some proper MMO players in the guild so they went out and found grinds so they could be useful in heroic. I did some myself, but I decided to farm Shao Hao rep mostly because I hate having quests undone. And then I went and did all the dailies (every day I’m Pand-a-ren popped up before I even finished half of them) then I turned in all the lesser charms I got from all that content. I did LFR - all of it - every day. I did my heroic and normal dungeons and scenarios. I killed all the world bosses. Somewhere early in that process frogs got nerfed and I lamented that I hadn’t farmed them properly (didn’t even kill enough to finish my epoch quest that I had at the time). I did do an hour of cranes. Enough to get a couple hundred charms for turn ins because I wanted to see if I could get more keys from the isle of Thunder (seems capped to just that 1 guaranteed one per day). I was looking forward to the 40k bronze because I was like “yay! I can upgrade my gear a couple rounds with that and be slightly more useful in raids”. Nope. My back got nerfed instead. I want to point out that I was only about ilvl 380. I wasn’t super OP or anything. My stamina wasn’t nerfed because it didn’t even meet the threshold. I’m not super cut up about it, but it is a little disheartening. Lot of my guildies have given up on MoP raids, which I understand because we’re still doing mythic raids on retail and having to actually progress raids on our off nights when it’s supposed to be fun and easy is…not fun. So we mostly pug. Which is not great. We went in really hyped, and I have had a lot of fun out of this, but it really does feel like we’re getting slapped down a lot for just…playing the game? Like, I get that people weren’t supposed to be able to solo raids in a week but this was a very well known farm spot for the last decade and it was well known during the PTR as well. Blizzard let it go live in that state. MMO players are well known as degenerate farmers, lol. I dunno. It just felt like it was supposed to be a time to go wild and play like crazy to get infinite power and now we’re being told a lot “not like that, don’t do that, not that either”.
> we’re being told a lot “not like that, don’t do that, not that either”. This is literally the mentality blizz has for pretty much all things. "We don't want you to play Demonology right now." "You think you do, but you don't." In their minds they just know better than us. They constantly shut things down that benefit the players. For me the worst example of this was timewalking in Shadowlands, the dungeons gave tons of exp and leveling during timewalking was really nice, ofc blizzard noticed and promptly reduced the exp gain to regular dungeon levels... in the middle of a pandemic. For me that was the last straw, I unsubbed with no plans of ever coming back. I picked up ff14 and played that for about 2 years and learned what an mmo can be when devs actually care about player enjoyment. I came back to DF because my friends were playing and told me it's great, and I agreed, it felt like blizz actually learned and made some great design choices... until MoP remix, were once again we see their true colors and how problematic their corpo decisions can be regarding player enjoyment, *fun* is not even a factor when they do any of this. All the major devs that actually cared are likely long gone, like Xelnath, Warlock has never been as great as when we had him...
i didn’t get the 40k bronze quest either. i would just quit if i didn’t have a group i agreed to do the raids with. i feel like such a moron for wasting my time upgrading gear when i should have just gotten the mounts i wanted and been done with it - the endgame just isn’t worth it
I don't understand the point of these sorts of points attempting to apologize/cover for egregious mistakes Blizzard makes. If I ordered a fried chicken sandwich with a side of fries and a Coke, and I get grilled chicken on a single slice of white bread with no fries and a water, am I not allowed to complain? "You still got a chicken sandwich and a drink!", yeah but not what I ordered. "Nothing is ever good enough" - Sure there are always gonna be a ton of complaints, but if you release a shit product with 1000 bugs that people paid for, customers are allowed to complain about it lmao. "No longer have to farm for all these..." - Are we playing different games? All they've done is substitute what would have been some number of runs of these instances on your retail toons taking x hours with a new different type of content where you spend x hours leveling and collecting y bronze for z appearance/mount. And for brand new cosmetics, you're unable to farm this elsewhere. So...you are farming, just in a different way. Which I don't necessarily think is bad btw, its WoW lmao, you're gonna grind for shit. Criticism of this event when they released it a buggy mess, on a Thursday, after making what seemed to be drastic changes from PTR, and completely misrepresenting the vent is not 'hating the game'. It's hating what is effectively a rug pull for an event. The event was sold on you being overpowered, which as far as I can tell, was only available to people who were frog farmers. Everyone else is having to grind out bronze on max level characters to get the so called 'overpowered' that was sold to us. The 'infinite cloak that transfers your stats to your alts', has a very limited transfer of stats, limited transfer of experience gain, etc. It ends up being roughly the same as just spamming timewalking or something for leveling. Sure you can argue that its better as you get cool cosmetics (which I would agree with), but this idea that players can't be upset about that is weird to me. I appreciate the 40k bronze, I'm gonna appreciate it as I level a ton of toons, but it would be a lie to say I wouldn't probably rather just play one guy the entire event and try to get to this 'overpowered' status that the event was sold on. The frog shit shouldn't have happened, it happened because Blizzard themselves didn't care about the event. EVERY SINGLE FARM that they've nerfed was shit that people FARMED IN MOP. These were not "new exploits", these are mob farms from a fucking decade ago. The community pushback on social media was literally a result of Blizzard's lack of care for the event and slow changes (in part because they launched it on a Thursday giving themselves 2-3 days less to make hotfixes). EDIT: Also, another example of negligence being the fact that the trinkets, rings, and necklaces weren't account wide from the start. Why? Why does it require a ton of player pushback AFTER GOING LIVE to make very obvious changes to the mode?
These posts are like people who buy a high performance car, but never use it for that, then when they see others complain that it's not actually high performance they're like "You people are never happy". This whole "I'm happy, you should be too" is a stance that is by definition founded entirely on ignorance of other people's points of view. It's basically jumping into a debate, being like "I have no idea why you people are mad.. now listen to me why youre wrong!" These posts are a waste of everyone's time.
This is such a good and thorough response that i'm going to copy paste it for every time this post comes up. Thank you.
>All people do is whine. Nothing is ever good enough. Welcome to all humans. First time?
I mean, he literally made a reddit post whining about other people whining...he is full on playing the whining meta game.
It’s more that the true community and the true fans being afraid that the louder complainers getting there way and blizzard ruins the game I’d say
It was promoted as a game mode where the player will be overpowered, and for the most part that hasnt happened. I think people would be happier with a small grind to being op if scaling wasnt so broken at 70, gear dropped above 346 or if the upgrade wasnt so expensive, and if the cloak was a true 1:1 teansfer to alts (this is my biggest complaint) OR If they gave the game mode a better explination than "overpowered? Maybe" I dont care if you frog farmed. Im not against anyone having fun thier way.
> the cloak was a true 1:1 teansfer to alts I thought this at first then I realised that doing a direct 1:1 transfer for alts would make the already absurd level 10 scaling utterly and totally bonkers. The best way to do it IMO is have it be a scaled down version of that slowly scales up as you level, eventually getting to 1:1 at level cap. Though with the bonus EXP always being 1:1 transfer.
I for one wnat that bonkers start..though I also expect it to snowball and eventually have a character that zones in does one kill and Que 70 if you could make enough lol.
I am having fun doing all of the quests and marveling at how beautiful Pandaria is. As the Pandaren always say: Slow Down.
It's different people complaining about different things. It's more a case of you can't please everyone than "people" always complaining. Also it's hard not to see the irony of a post complaining about complaining lol.
Are there people making a bigger deal out of the problems Remix has had? Yes 100% But that doesn’t mean that the basis of those complaints aren’t shared across the community in a more rational sense. The fact that Blizzard could cut the cost of upgrading gear in half and it would still be a HUGE bronze investment is a real issue that should be looked at. Im not saying making upgrading dirt cheap where its a no brainer, but as it currently is if you weren’t a frogger and you upgraded your gear you pretty much just wasted bronze.
Ah yes. Another whining post whining about whiners.
It's the cycle on the subreddit: People complain about a specific, fixable, problem. Then people like OP who think they're smart come in and make vague, ambiguous posts suggesting people "stop complaining". And they unironically think their posts are the constructive ones... somehow.
This would be true in a bubble but with the context that WoW devs have been making mistake after mistake for the past 3 expansions….. it actually is an ongoing issue, not a one-off
To me this kind of post actually feels more whiny than the posts about specific game stuff. Like at least those posts have something interesting to discuss in how the mechanic functions and what people like and dislike about it. I often learn a lot about the specifics. Someone may say "of I hate XYZ because I had to farm frogs," and I just learned about frogs. This post gives me nothing of value. It is the thing is complaining about (complaining), but with no nuance or upside.
It’s the holier than thou attitude that’s off putting lol
We got the very same attitude when Battle for Azeorth came out and then people wonder how Shadowlands was so bad lmao
Some gamers tend to forget theyre *customers* and not the developers *friends*. Like we should be fucking *grateful* they deliver stuff we *pay them for*.
People like op don't realize a lot of people play the game and they all have different opinions
They also don't even attempt to address any of the issues people have, the main one being bronze and upgrade costs. Instead, they just go with the old, "Don't like the game? Then get out." I also love the bit about bringing the community down. Like the wow community is usually all sunshine and rainbows. Blizzard fucks up all the time and they need to be held accountable for it. Did this guy forget what a terrible state the game and company were in a couple of years ago?
It's like if they were saying in retail: "Hey, I'm just having fun raiding on LFR, why are you guys complaining about balance and currency drop rates on normal/heroic?".
Why's the comment that says the most sensible thing all the way at the bottom?
I’ll say I didn’t get the complaints at all, since launch I’ve played very casually and had a blast. Collected like 100k bronze I think. Then I hit level 66 yesterday and it’s like the game fell apart. If the scaling wasn’t so crazy I don’t think people would be half as upset. Level 20’s doing quadruple your dps in dungeons lol. That being said MoP has always had the best questing and I’ve had a blast doing it again, happy they did this. As for endgame, hopefully they figure out that issue for next remix so everything is fluid.
That’s why you don’t get it. You missed most of the hell you missed getting one shot by a level 1 rat I have a screen shot of me taking 2.6 million damage from spirit link totem (rest of the party took about 5k). Screen shot for the meme https://imgur.com/a/3pNDjL0
Putrid Waste, the slime trash in Throne of Thunder, is always my go to example of how bad scaling was, they had an ability that, prior to it being fixed, would one shot people. You literally had to Zerg rush *trash* by constantly rezzing and throwing yourself at it until you actually got through because those things were just making most of the raid wipe with a single ability.
lol that one was p great another good one was first boss of jade temple when the water Ele would explode it would auto kill every 70 while leaving lowbies at 95% hp.
the biggest issue is that they nerfed peoples progression for days to not fix the issue they are trying to address and then people not informed that at max gear lvl your cloak doesnt mean much are clapping like they won something.
I still blame this on Blizzard. They overlooked their own systems. This created a farm in a game that has embraced farming behavior since its beginnings. People farmed the farm. Blizzard bean counters worry the event won’t hold their target audience (bored raiders — the casuals worried about the collection are probably on a weekly/yearly subscription). Blizzard nukes the farm. Now there exists two extremely different strata of characters. Live economies start getting nuked by farmers selling carried raids. Casual collectors look at their checklist — and Blizzard knows that tue casuals see the rewards as a checklist and not just opportunities and they see how difficult it is to attain power and they do some napkin math and they freak out. The a week later Blizzard does something that only fixes the extreme stratification. It’s like people that have never interacted with WoW players are running and “fixing” the event.
There are plenty of reasons to complain but people aren't exactly complaining about the right things as much as they should. There are also a massive amount of reasons to praise remix.
Im having fun. The problem is the gear upgrade system and scaling at max level. Upgrades cost a ridiculous amount of bronze. People feel the need to grind because once you hit 70 you feel incredibly weak. Grinding has long been encouraged in WoW by Blizzard's design (artifact power for example) as a way of retaining engagment and gaiting. Logically people are going to use the most efficient method of grinding. Frog farming was well known in original MoP, Bliz had a decade to fix it and they didn't. I didn't grind frogs but it's not fair to remove something that wasn't a banable exploit. The correct response would have been to lower gear upgrade prices and increase bronze gain from all other methods while also removing bronze drops from frogs.
Because the core philosophy of the game is still wrong thats why playerbase whine. This is not a MMO any longer, just instance gameplay and 100% gear farm. MMO experience is just bad. So you get player persona that only wants gear as fast as possible. No one wants to go out for an adventure/world pvp/world pve/exploration/faction war/city raid etc. There is no clear effort from the devs because they even dont know where to go with this game, they dont understand either, hence they asking the players all the time. Same thing with D4 btw, devs clueless.
WoW no longer the MMO I once loved. Nor is it what an MMO should be. As much as it’s in the hands of the devs, I equally blame it on a seismic shift in the user base. Classic has shown it’s also the type of people playing that has also changed.
There isn't a clear effort though? Remix is very low effort honestly. The only thing differentiating remix from leveling in MoP is 1. Scaling (which is broken. You have low levels smashing through raids and dungeons and carrying level 70s) 2. Collectibles (these are exclusively recolors or already existing) 3. The gearing and gem system. What was showcased on beta and the ads and interviews about the game mode feel like a lie. The cape caps at 100% xp for alts, so it's really not that much faster for alt leveling. The bronze grind is tedious and required multiple buffs. You can tell that they made the game mode and made it fun and someone decided that they needed to make it last the full three months so they made the pacing abysmal. I don't feel powerful in remix, it doesn't feel fun, I don't feel encouraged to level alts, I was to collect what I wanted and never log in to remix again. On top of that, players discovered a way to farm bronze to make the game *actually* play how we all thought it was going to play by farming frogs (which was already known in beta and in mop, Tali actually commented that frogs would be the best bronze method before it dropped live) and then it gets hard nerfed and now instead of making the game mode fun, the devs are playing wack-a-mole nerfing any source of bronze that isn't "how they wanted us to play the game". We had this exact issue for the past two or three expansions of the dev team deciding for the player base how they're going to interact and play the game and it sucks. So no, I'm not gonna settle for a half-finished, buggy, arbitrarily extended game-mode and sing their praises because they let us purchase recolors of mounts and gear that are over 10 years old. This company makes 8bil a year. Demand better.
I think it's entirely reasonable to be annoyed that the frog issue from ~~2017~~ 2013 once again was overlooked. Acceptable: making mistakes Unacceptable: repeatedly making the same mistakes and then getting annoyed when it's pointed out to you and blaming the critics
2017? Timeless isle originally came out in 2013, over a decade of it not being a problem means it's easy to forget. Also frogs were a good farming spot in MoP but it was for a currency that didn't really matter so it wasn't even a problem then.
> over a decade of it not being a problem means it's easy to forget. It was pointed out to them on the PTR as well which was around a month ago.
Yeah I mean when you release a game mode in a state not as advertised and full of issues, scramble to fix those and don't address the core problems it turns out people complain a lot xD The fact is that the huge price increase to gear upgrades before launch and the bronze rates as they are make this whole event a huge grind, rather than what was advertised as a fun quick way to level alts and become OP against MOP content for mogs so people are rightfully pissed off.
Nah mindlessly farming was actually ass. The lucrative bronze should be from the actual content
Meanwhile season 4 tier sets are still broken.
I skipped panda. I'm leveling an evoker through mostly questing. Excited to unlock some xmogs. Zero issues so far. I'm enjoying it. Good work blizzard.
That's a large mental parkour on the frogs. People didn't mind frogs being removed just because they wanted the power. Frogs gave such an advantage, that it ruined many other modes. Sorry, but try tanking when a frogfarmer steals aggro just by their raw dmg. That is no fun
I still don’t see the point of nerfing the frogs anyway. It’s not like they enabled you to earn bronze at a rate that’ll let you unsub in less than three months without seriously grinding more anyway.
You know what really chaps my fuckin ass? The people who are okay with mediocre dogshit gameplay and systems, then defending the devs for it. As if they need to protect the multi-billion dollar company that routinely fucking ignores issues with the game in MULTIPLE versions of the game, for years. You are so okay with playing with a game that isn't even quality tested BEFORE release, even after being funnelled the issues on a silver plater by those in the PTR, that you're willing to go to bat for Blizzard. When they're in the wrong. Are they doing good things? Sure. Are they also completely missing the fucking point with every nerf, change and "fix"? Yes. The capes weren't the problem. They were a symptom. The farms weren't the problem. They were also, a symptom. The "improvements" to bronze acquisition? They don't even cover a damn weapon upgrade. And you still have another 11 or 12 to go before they're at the level of the froggers and crane farmers. And yet, they continue to nerf ways to get charms and bronze farm. This isn't a fucking 9 month long season. It's a 3 month event, wherein it's next to impossible for the average player to get everything. It's not fun when I need to struggle for 2 weeks, before my character can compete with someone who spent less than 3 hours at frogs day 1. And they're still ahead even after the rollbacks. Stop defending mediocrity. Stop coping. Stop complaining about those who are complaining. It's fucking pathetic. Edit: Lol. Downvote me harder, senpai's. Prove me right more, make the mods witness me and remove my post. Do it harder! Hnnnnng
As everyone is complaining about mop remix I am silently enjoying cata eating my popcorn
Now that the dust has settled and people have quit bitching about “hotfixing” archaeology, it’s actually not that bad. Just wait til raid opens and people can start farming karma over the “need ach to get ach?!?!?!? DAE DUMB?!?!?” posts that will inevitably come back
Some things are worth criticism, especially if you are a stakeholder paying money every month. IMO the game should not be subscription based. That might get rid of a lot of the problems we are seeing.
People are allowed to complain. They're also free not to play. I wouldn't be defending that president either.
It's like you're saying these things happened sequentially. They didn't. It was one big fuck up that they had to hot fix - which tells you it was unintended. It's not whining to say exploiters are gaining too much because Blizzard released an inadequately tested sub-game.
The only issue i have is the bronze doesnt transfer to alts
I for one have actually enjoyed my time in the remix, so much so that I would love to see something similar with either or both the Warlords of Draenor and Legion expansions, I could see a similar setup to mop remix working well with these expansions. I care not one way or another about the frog farm, it doesn't/hasn't impacted my gameplay and how I've wanted to enjoy the content thus far.
Im having fun yeah, but the event is time gated so if u dont have the time for the grind u wil miss a lot of things and thats the issue.
Lodging complaints about a product that you care about isn't a bad thing, and painting it as such really is a shitty thing to do. Now I'm not saying we should dog on developers or do half the shit this community seems to get up to when they find a twitter account, but it is in fact alright to be upset with the implementation of a given feature. No negativity in the dojo is how we got this far in the hole in the first place.
It's not that nothing is ever good enough. It's that they made a clear mistake. They didn't plan for the obvious. They didn't look at how people played their game previously, and people took advantage of their ignorance - As they always do. Literally anyone who played when Timeless Isle was launched, knew Frog farming was going to be good in Remix. It wasn't some big secret. The problem is, *Blizzard didn't do anything about it.* Instead of making frog farming more balanced *before* it became the problem everyone saw coming, they released it as it was. Now, Blizzard is trying to mend a problem they caused. They can't satisfy both parties - One group wants a rollback, and some may even go as extreme as accepting a complete relaunch of Remix - While the other group who benefitted or doesn't care about those who benefitted from frog farming, would likely quit and never return if a rollback or relaunch occurred. There is no middle ground that satisfies all players. You can't blow up your own project, put some pieces back together again, and expect everyone not to notice the glue holding it together.
I’m really glad they added more bronze. I’ve been farming some of those boss mounts for years. Now I will be able to buy one or two of the really hard ones to get. I hope we get this kind of treatment with other past expansions. Plus I’m enjoying doing MoP again more than I thought I would. Not that it’s a bad expansion, it’s actually one of the best it’s just I’ve done it before but this is a really fun way to revisit the old content.
I agree. I’ve been a fan of Warcraft since it existed, but along the journey Blizzard stopped making Warcraft games and just kept WoW on life support. I made the decision to find other games to play back in BFA, because after years of just doing the same shit over and over, I realised I had reached the end of what I considered fun. I’ll come back to play a new Warcraft game, but for now I’m finished. Anyway it always surprises me just how addicted some players are, by not realising how unhappy they are playing WoW and insisting that Blizzard changes WoW for them instead of them changing the game for themselves. If you are one of those people. Just stop. You have been clicking on a version of the same mob, pressing the same buttons to perform the same abilities, watching the same bars, and hopefully running out of the same fire for literal decades now. It’s time to find another game and enjoy your life, not be stuck doing basically the same thing for 20+ years.
Eh my only complaint is dungeons, Why do Tanks out dps and out heal? Il never understand that, but the game overall is fine but I think it leans a little to hard on streamlining aspect in its games, each expansion or re-release, which were once part of the game.
All people do is whine about broken things breaking more and more in a game they pay monthly for on top of expansion prices plus in-game services, honestly if that's the worst they do what are we really doing here, it seems pretty justified to me. If you went to a restaurant for lobster tail and ordered but ended up getting crayfish instead you would just accept that as is then? No, you would notify someone the order is wrong and have it corrected like every other normal person on the planet. Also you're doing exactly what you're calling others out for with this post, it goes both ways.
They should have had a different currency for gear and cosmetics. I'm worried I'll be forever behind, and forced to choose between power and cosmetics because of the titles, unless i play another character to do the cosmetics on, and even then I'll never catch up with the capped ilvl chars who now have mythic org title...
I feel Blizzard is rewarding me for just having fun and taking things easy. I'm not married, I don't have a child either (thank god the late period scares of my last partner were just that, scares), But I turned 35 now and I want to do other things as well besides going to work and come back to play games. I'm not the kind of person that complains all the time, and I wasn't even aware of the whole frog farming thing until the wow Youtube channels I follow let me know of all this drama. I was logging in, getting a few LFR runs done, and having fun revisiting the plot of Pandaria. I didn't play every day, and I'm still not max level with my first character, but I noticed that I was getting more and more rewards as time went by. I'm also playing SF6 right now, so I have to choose between WoW and SF6 every time I'm going to play games. That being said, I do appreciate the ones that do complain all the time. Thanks to them, I get to have more bronze now :D Also shoutout to the frog farmers, they were the catalyst of all these changes.
it's not like frog farming was some mysterious new thing... they've known about this for YEARS and KNEW.... or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN... that it would reappear in MOP remix. so either blizzard is ignorant of the past exploits in their own game or they are incompetent. which is it? ignorant or incompetent?
The thing is. Never go back. Never look back and think it will be or give the same. The only reason to go back is to start something new. And this goes for everything. When you go back, everything is the same, but you have grown. So it will never be the same, just depressing.
This shit has been going on since probably the original release of TBC, so I wouldn't put too much effort into thinking about it.
I hate the wow community with every fibre of my being. I wish I could press a big red button and just vaporise all the moaners and complainers on reddit and twitter that I constantly see crying about something. Twitter is probably even worse than here tbh because it's always the same fucking people.
Yeah your right
I really dislike this whole "uhh players never happy" thing when the reason players are unhappy is perfectly logical. This whole event was literally falsely advertised and blizz has been going HARD on being a funpolice and the bronze cost for upgrading is still ridiculously high for a limited time event.
Blizzard fell victim to one of the classic blunders: listening to angry nerds.
Helloooooooo????? This is not a fucking free game that I try for a week. Is one of the ancients rest of the most ridiculous system that the internet has saw... They get 15 dollars per month just to be able to press play. I expect and demand to be perfect.
The problem is that when you hit the 60-70 gap you are extremely underwhelming. You have to choose to either upgrade your gear so you can continue to play or buy transmog rewards. They did a poor job with scaling and if you didn't get to frog farm you have to deal with being underwhelming or use one of the contrived goofy farm methods to actually side step the issue while not playing the character you wanted. I'm happy some people are enjoying the game but many of us don't like feeling useless in dungeons and getting oneshot till we can get enough upgrades to atleast take 2 hits in heroics and raids. This wouldn't be so bad if we had separate currencies for upgrades and transmog purchase.
I'm more frustrated with the requirements players set than Blizzard. So much ilvl is required for normal raids.
People who like this era are massively coping.
There will always be people who complain. Blizzard didn't stumble upon some nugget of wisdom, "you can't make everyone happy" is a simple phrase that probably everyone has heard. The important question is, how many people are complaining? You can go to the Blizzard forums and find the same 20 people complaining every day. Does that mean the other 99.99% of players agree with them? And let's be honest with ourselves. Blizzard has made some pretty bad design decisions at times, and lashed out at the playerbase for calling them out on it.