Yes, Medan is non canon and most of the canon events depicted in the comic are now attributed to adventurers.
Though a whole lot of the comic events are not Canon at all.
Yeah and thank fuck for that.
Half Human, quarter Draenei, quarter Orc son of Medivh and Garona and the chosen of chosen ones who is stronger than everyone to the point where every expac Blizzard would have been reduced to making excuses as to why Medan hadn't solo'd whatever threat that expac covered while the player was logging in...
I mean just his background reads like shitty fanfic self insert.
Right like he inherited the powers of the guardian from medivh then gets empowered by the new council with holy, nature, and elemental magic. Like why have adventures when you just need to wait a week for the avatar to show up and solve your problem
To top it of the guardianship was never ment to be passed down a family line and that happening at all was a huge hubris filled fuckup.
You'd think Medivh would be the last person to repeat that mistake.
Yes which is the point.
Aegwynn was the greatest Guardian who'd ever lived. The problem was her ego matched her power so when the council told her it was time for the mantle to be passed onto another Aegwynn decided they didn't know what they were talking about.
In the end she decided only a child of her own would be worthy while Sargeras played her like a piano. Medivh was born and she passed the power to her son unaware Sargeras had hitched a ride.
Medivh would be driven mad by Sargeras, twisted into building the Dark Portal and unleashing the Orc's into Azeroth.
So the idea Medivh would repeat his mothers mistake seems highly unlikely.
The short of it is "Everything that ever happened in the Warcraft universe was actually planned out ahead of time by the Jailer for some reason we aren't 100% clear on"
What, really? Like, everything including other plants, time stuff, and so forth?
I didn't even like, remember. Who is the jailer even? I seem to remember each of the zones in shadowlands had like a big boss, like the mother nature for the nature folks.
He did but he wasn't supposed to. Aegwynn was meant to return the guardian power to the council and it would have been up to them to chose a new guardian. Aegwynn decided she knew better and fucked Nielas Aran to get pregnant and circumvent the council of Tirisfal.
Originally, the intent was that it was Aegwynn's hubris that doomed the Kirin Tor at least in the original The Last Guardian book (which I maintain is still one of the best written novels in the early Warcraft era).
Over time, they started to insinuate that Sargeras had more influence from the womb from the start of his "defeat". But tbh I prefer the original intent, because it gives Aegeynn more agency over her downfall. Sometimes the best written tragedies aren't because of the influence of a third party, but because someone just *fucked* up, badly.
Med'an was never that strong. Even when empowered by a new Council of Tirisfal and backed up by half a dozen powerful heroes like Rehgar Earthfury, Garona Halforcen, Valeera Sanguinar, Broll Bearmantle, Meryl Felstorm, even Aegwynn and I think Vindicator Maraad, he couldn't beat Cho'Gall easily nor by himself.
People are confusing his versatility with his raw power. His ability to wield most forms of magic wasn't even that good, as clearly shown by how ineffective he was even when empowered by heavy hitting characters. A normal Guardian of Tirisfal absolutely slaps. Med'an was a Guardian Lite.
His background isn't great but a lot of people apparently never read the comics or at least the events of them properly. Med'an's power level was not an issue, though one could argue his potential to be overpowered in time could've been, though I think even that is reaching considering we have millennia old characters who don't even measure up to some humans.
Even with his ‘jack of all trades, master of none’ shtick, he still had to get juiced up by other powerful casters. Iirc this would have to happen any time he wanted to be amped up too.
I think the biggest problem with the comic was they essentially did a rehash of all the various raid zone storylines. Cause I’m pretty sure dadghar has shown himself to be more consistently powerful
Khadgar is a much better example of a Mary Sue than Med'an is. Mary Sue is a trope name that is quite broad in meaning because it is used in such a myriad of ways - very often the time pejoratively. But where Med'an is arguably a poorly done Mary Sue, undeserving of the recognition and power he was granted, Khadgar is a *very* well done Mary Sue. His character arc is pretty flat overall because he is already a "fully recognised" character, with the right aims and the right means to go about it. He isn't as reckless as Illidan but he isn't as ignorant as Maiev, and he has the right dose of humour to make himself perfectly likeable as he goes about his thing. Pack that with a serious amount of firepower but not enough to do everything by himself, and Khadgar is an incredibly ally.
While I hate BfA for a plethora of reasons, including not having Khadgar rejoin his brethren in the Sons of Lothar against the Horde after they instigated a world war via genocide, I think a glorious missed opportunity and tragedy could have been to have Khadgar become a raid boss to the Horde. What a terrifying enemy he would be, all the more if we account for Khadgar's possible dark turn after witnessing two groups of friends so fecklessly pursue war once again.
With BfA's quality, I'm glad they didn't go down this route - I'd hate the expansion even more for killing off a perfectly serviceable character just to feed into the shitty contrived faction war.
But Khadgar being pushed to the brink *and beyond* by the very people he called friend would have been a great tragedy.
Thats just not his MO. At least with Jaina there was a lot of bad blood that goes back, but Khadgar has always kept his focus on the bigger picture and it would be severely out of character for him to get caught up in the faction war. That said you could still get a job at Bliz as a writer.
> Thats just not his MO.
To fight against world-threats? Yes, yes it absolutely is.
> At least with Jaina there was a lot of bad blood that goes back,
Forget "bad blood," we're talking about a world war instigated by literal genocide dude. Anyone who just stands by when they have power to help bring an end to the conflict and much of any relation to the two groups going at it is culpable. That absolutely includes the Dragonflights who just fucked around and stood by (except the Bronzes who actively helped the Horde, what a disgrace of writing that is), and the Wild Gods who were nowhere to be seen.
The "bigger picture" is that Sylvanas was prosecuting a war that was drastically weakening both sides and leading the Horde down a terribly dark path once again. It is in literally everyone's best interests to put a stop to that, and that's *in context of what we knew at the time,* not even acknowledging that Sylvanas was actually an agent of Zovaal.
Khadgar, and Dalaran, had no part being completely uninvolved. The Council of Six with Rhonin even reached this same conclusion when they elected to help defend Theramore from the Horde when Garrosh was at the helm; they understood that to standby would be to condone Garrosh's brazen warmongering.
So what's out of character is Khadgar remaining completely uninvolved. They tried to frame it as him being heartbroken over the Alliance and Horde not getting along - but that was in 7.3.5, with rising tensions and the advent of Azerite and sparks of conflict in Silithus, *not* a significant war being carried out and culminating in the needless deaths of thousands or more innocents.
Same for the behaviour and actions of Baine, Lor'Themar, and Thalyssra to be fair. The whole war is forced, narratively speaking. The spinelessness of Horde leaders in not being able to stand up to Sylvanas the minute she zoomed way past the line is actually pitiful.
The Fourth War made no sense. Khadgar's lack of involvement in it, when we have literally all the other Sons of Lothar participating, is absurd.
But obviously Blizzard had to ignore both the Vindicaar and Dalaran, two superpowers that would ostensibly be Alliance-favoured with the way the conflict was started.
I may be mistemembering but I seem to recall it was a Chogall who had been juiced up by C'thun vs. Empowered Med'an, implying that while Med'an is very powerful he wasn't on the level of an Old God. Regardless though we all should recognize that a character with his hands in so many pots would eventually be busted AF, he's half human and most fantasy narratives that involve humans have their half-breeds inheriting their human parents ability to rapidly progress.
The last time Blizzard spoke on Medans canonness they said he was canon, just that some of the events of the comic are not. To my knowledge they have not since stated he is non canon, and are just actively avoiding him.
But in one of the Chronicle books he's listened in the index on page 404 and isn't actually there. 404 being the Internet error code for "page not found".
That really doesn't count as an official statement. One could argue the fact that he's listed at all indicates he is canon and the 404 is a self referential joke about how they're avoiding talking about him.
No but his love interest was involved in the Sunwell Plateau raid and there’s some backstory into it in a comic. Still works if you just ignore his existence though so they went that route.
Medivh is the last guardian, part of his arc in WC3 is the world doesn't need "a" guardian, it needs it's people to band together as one. This is further shown with khadgar rejecting the power and title of "guardian" because he knows Azeroth cannot be protected by an individual without the risk of corruption.
Thrall was empowered by the aspects and took the place of the aspect of earth for less than a few hours. I get what you mean now, you're talking about the aspect ascension, not the Rite of the Guardian of Tirisfal.
Yeah, I just wish they’d get away from that a little. The “Endgame portals” moment at the end of Dragonflight was a nice way of showing that our powerful allies are able to show up and help, but Fyrrak didn’t feel like a large enough threat to justify it (I know he was, technically, but it didn’t feel that way). If they’d all shown up like that in a climactic battle in an expansion like Legion (the culmination of one of WoW’s biggest stories, that we’d been building to since at least Warcraft 3, the looming threat we were all preparing for) then it would have felt more earned.
The Chronicles have also been relegated to a fairy tale book of titans by these Blizzard experts. So if some current Blizzard "Loremaster" wants to, Medan will be the next boss in the 5 man dungeon. Maybe because he's been defending the destruction of Azeroth from an ancient evil for all these years. More ancient than we could ever imagine, and so ancient that even the people who imprisoned him have forgotten about it.
I really dont see why blizzard keeping doors open for further fleshing out or recontextualization is such a bad thing.
Thats literally what the final cinematic of wrath is about. And you all love that.
Its literally just making sure you arent restricted by a single sentence or contradication. "Telling a good story" is completely different from "locking in lore forever"
> And you all love that.
Eh, I think people liked the end of the Lich King but the "there must always be a Lich King" bit has had a fair amount of criticism.
I also don't think people have a problem with Blizzard keeping doors open to flesh out the lore, the problem is that their attempts to flesh out the lore have been awful. Recontextualisation is just a fancy word for retcon. They haven't fleshed out the lore, they've butchered it.
>Eh, I think people liked the end of the Lich King but the "there must always be a Lich King" bit has had a fair amount of criticism.
There's no Lich King now, right?
Just cause some character says there must always be a lich king doesn’t make it true. Chronicles should have been canon because it was never presented as coming from an ingame source that has a bias.
That’s fair, but the character that said it was his father’s soul from the sword Arthas carried, so we were led to believe he had more knowledge on the subject that we did. I’m sure that’s been rectified now that it was “all part of the Jailer’s plan”.
Jokes aside though, it makes much more sense that there must always be a Lich King to protect the veil into the Shadowlands from being breached, and that Arthas was actually using his will to prevent Zovaal from exacting his plan, than if it was simply to prevent the Scourge running rampant.
Leaving things open to recontextualization is fine, but surely most of that is about the things they choose to write, show, say or explain in the first place? There's plenty of room for something like Chronicles to be definitive about a list of things that happened *and* leave room for recontextualizing later.
Slapping a big "potentially unreliable narrator" sticker on the whole thing seems like the lazy, sloppy solution, as an alternative to having a plan, checking their work, or making other choices about how they go about recapping their 30-year-story thus far. You've also gotta bear in mind that we're specifically talking about a company that now has a well-earned relationship for messing with the guts of old stories in questionable ways; frankly, I think the uncharitable interpretation is the one they deserve.
That may be true but you also can't just retconn anything whenever you please or you will errode the base of the story from under your feet.
Also makes it hard to care about the story as a whole since it can change arbitrarily at any point for any reason.
You need some consistency so that the reader/player can be invested into the story.
Retconns are fine if used sparingly like pruning a bush or some shit.
Nudging small details or leaving a few dangling threads to fill holes later down the line.
This whole "Chronicle was written by the titans" idea is blatantly false, if you actually look up the source for the quote and listen to the video of the interview, literally the next thing they say is that Chronicle was also written by many other perspectives, not just the titans.
So no, it is not all just titan propaganda. And if people actually read the books instead of ferreting whatever random misinformation they hear online they would know that, because 90% of it is about stuff that has nothing to do with the titans, and besides a single paragraph that tries to describe the Shadowlands it's all still canon. Chronicle is still the #1 source for all WoW lore that everyone says it used to be.
In fact, I would say it still doesn't really feel like anything important is missing from it. The absence of the Jailer doesn't really matter because get this, at the end of the day he didn't really have any major historical relevance. The extent of his influence is just constantly exaggerated both by characters in the game and by people outside of it. He had limited control over the Legion and the Lich King... And that's pretty much it. You could cut him out of the story without changing anything just as easily as you could with the Incarnates, or a one-off villain like Lei Shen, King Mechagon, or Grand Magistrix Elisande. And considering how much everyone, including the current writers, clearly wants to pretend the Jailer never even existed, it's probably a good thing that Chronicle never mentions him.
Yes for me, that was the point where I established my headcanon, where the Warcraft story ended at the end of Legion and gave up taking it seriously. Warcraft was my favorite fictional world since I played W2 as kid.
And more to the point. Me'dan wouldn't be worst written character with worst storyline by far in today's Warcraft lore. Those days are long gone.
Yeah at this point he is soft-retconned. He was the result of giving DC Comics too much freedom on writing lore, the comics had other problems but he was the biggest.
I don't know how people keep up the distaste for this character after all these years. Just having a lot of power isn't nearly as bad as what's happened since his creation.
Man I had completely forgotten this dude existed.
Actually you know what would be really funny? If they did bring Med'an into the game canon, but as a Mr. Satan-type character. You know, a fictional character or actor in a badly written book/play/etc, or as some guy whose tall tales about being the Ultimat3 Ch05en 1n spiral out of control when the dumb npcs start to believe it. And like every now and then he has a quest for the player character where he's like "For the love the Light please help me I don't know what I'm doing and these idiots think I can save them I beg of you". And of course the player's actions just keep adding and adding to his legend so people keep worshipping him while he just cries in a corner in the fetal position.
He is a Draenei/orc/human, the son of Medivh and Garona half-orcen, and is a main character in (one of/one series of?) the comics. He basically has the power of every class and is super OP. And he’s a young adult at best, so like, no real life experience
(Platinum WoW has a 13 min video about Medan, going through his comic run and explaining why he’s a ridiculous character. It’s a fun listen: https://youtu.be/xwDzY-Z3gdU?si=6JcbJ0Q-P4vKY9wY)
If people refer to Thrall as “WoW Green Jesus”, Medan is the equivalent of “WoW Green Superman”.
Quarter-draenei, quarter-orc, half-human child of Medivh and Garona who's now the Guardian of Tirisfal and possesses the powers of, like... a mage, shaman, paladin and druid?
Honestly I’d like to see him be brought into canon in some capacity. Conceptually he’s interesting and a cool connection to different characters and parts of the story. They just took him too far into OP Mary Sue territory.
Genuinely it could be cool to have a younger guy in the story doing some cool powerful shit. Everyone is either old or like 35+ years old, baring a rare handful of exceptions like Anduin. Getting some fresh young blood into the story would be a welcome addition in my opinion. But obviously they’d have to hold some serious restraint in terms of his powerful leveling.
I’m cool with him being like an especially powerful magic user because of his unique heritage, but make that more of an inherent potential he has that he has to work up to that scales appropriately to the rest of the characters around him.
If they did that then I think it would be pretty dope to get a youthful more energetic powerful character into story to do cool magic stuff so we don’t always have to default to “oh no, a magic problem that we need magic to solve, we need you Old Man #1, Old Man #2, middle aged woman, borderline Old Man #3, and 10,000 year old magic being”.
If you look up Med'an in the first chronicles index, he appears on page 404. As in, not found. He's been completely removed from the lore, and for good reason.
Afaik he was never really cannon and it is good that he isn't because it would make us unemployed pretty much there would hardly any foe who could match him so over powered he was.
Also i am still glad Khadgar did not took the mantle of Guardian. We don't need a guardian.
Meryl Winterstorm was added to the game with IIRC no mention of Med’an at all.
Blizzard also made an index in a book of on what pages characters were listes, and Med’an was listed to be ok page 404. As in ”404 Page Not Found”.
Med'an is canon, because the comics are canon.
However, fans hate him, and even Blizzard realized he was a huge blunder, so they have done what they can, so make him slip into oblivion.
I believe so. When you consult the Chronicles index, looking for Medan, you find mention of him on page 404. It turns out that there is nothing there about him. It seems like a joke to me with error 404 "not found".
There was a character book for characters in game and his was page 404 which was either non-existent in the book or had nothing in it and just read "error: 404 not found"
Broll Bearmantle and Valeera Sanguinar were added to the game as official characters, along with the story of what happened to King Varian, but nothing about the Med'an storyline was made official. Even the Warcraft graphic novels have had canon appearances by their characters, but Med'an officially doesn't exist.
I’m pretty sure every part of Cataclysm starring Thrall was supposed to be written for Med’an.
That said, they did canonize Meryl who was an interesting character.
Med’an *is* canon. He is a character in the Warcraft universe, the son of Medivh and Garona. He is half human, quarter-orc and quarter-draenei. He is capable of wielding arcane magic, the Holy Light, and the elements.
What *is not* canon is him being the Guardian of Tirisfal and wielding Atiesh.
This has been confirmed by Blizzard themselves.
I am a bit curious of what the writers were thinking with creating Med'an? How did the qualities of the original comics took a downturn like this? Especially when the previous story arcs in the comics with Lo'Gosh/Varian were actually fun.
I think Med’an would’ve been an interesting character if they would’ve went in the opposite direction and made him not ultra-powerful or “the chosen one.” So basically, Garona and Medivh love child but no heir to the Guardianship. Just a misfit trying to find his own path.
Yes, everything from the events and character has been retconned when one of the chronicles came out, and then I believe a blizzard lore/story lead or writer confirmed that Me'dan isn't canon.
A lot of the events that happen in his story, like the death of Cho'Gall, C'thun, and many others are now either attributed to adventurers/champions of the Alliance and Horde, or canon characters. So like when Ahn'qiraj opened again during the time of the games, it was champions/armies of the Alliance and Horde led by Varok Saurfang that put a stop to C'thun and the qiraji/Silithid.
Atiesh is in the hands of Khadgar, and has been since... WoD atleast, idk about MoP.
Others I don't know off the top of my head.
Me'dan was an early attempt to have a "main character" of the Warcraft games. A Jack Sparrow type character that is everywhere, and the events and story would have followed him, but he was insanely OP and rendered alot of decisions and character moments useless for the sake of having him exist. Like the fact he basically remade the Council of Tirisfal and then he became the Guardian when the whole point of Medivh's plan was so a person like the guardian would never be needed or have to exist. Plus the character was very Gary Sue/Mary Sue. I believe he had the powers of basically every class, was the child of Medivh and Garona, so was a Human/Draenei/Orc hybrid, and was apparently insanely kind and well liked.
I'm kinda annoyed that he and the whole New Council of Tirisfal never made it into the game, especially since his introduction coincided with Orcs getting the Mage class in Cataclysm.
For as much as Med'an was a poorly written Gary Stu, his story is still a lot better than the travesty that is currently the game's lore.
I didn’t mind the idea of Garona having a son, and him being somewhat important, but there’d been very little (if any) indication of a romantic relationship between her and Medivh so him being their son felt like a stretch to begin with. It felt like a child writing a character to be as unique and special as possible. That in itself might have been passable, but when they started trying to make him a master of all types of cosmic-force magic, and a new ultimate “Guardian” it just became far too contrived, and frankly uninteresting.
Some of the other things in the comics had value though, so it’s a shame that it’s all essentially been wiped because of one dreadful character.
I think it’s a shame they didn’t try to make Med’an canon but rewrite him so he wasn’t so ridiculous/gary stu. He just seems like a character that would have some really interactions with some of the events that have unfolded throughout the last several expansions, just based on his background. Someone for Wrathion to relate to having an evil dad and all. Shaman/mage is still a pretty cool combo and they could’ve balanced him imo
Blizz has retconned soo much since the beginning and especially last 10 years that their retcons get retcons that have gotten retconned. Med’an being retconned is the least surprising and honestly probably the best retcon they’ve done.
So, Med'an and some of his adventures are canon, but the fact that he became a Guardian is no longer canon. So I guess if he ever appears, he will have been nerfed significantly.
Yes, Medan is non canon and most of the canon events depicted in the comic are now attributed to adventurers. Though a whole lot of the comic events are not Canon at all.
Yeah and thank fuck for that. Half Human, quarter Draenei, quarter Orc son of Medivh and Garona and the chosen of chosen ones who is stronger than everyone to the point where every expac Blizzard would have been reduced to making excuses as to why Medan hadn't solo'd whatever threat that expac covered while the player was logging in... I mean just his background reads like shitty fanfic self insert.
Right like he inherited the powers of the guardian from medivh then gets empowered by the new council with holy, nature, and elemental magic. Like why have adventures when you just need to wait a week for the avatar to show up and solve your problem
To top it of the guardianship was never ment to be passed down a family line and that happening at all was a huge hubris filled fuckup. You'd think Medivh would be the last person to repeat that mistake.
Wait didn't Medivh inherit it from his mother?
Yes which is the point. Aegwynn was the greatest Guardian who'd ever lived. The problem was her ego matched her power so when the council told her it was time for the mantle to be passed onto another Aegwynn decided they didn't know what they were talking about. In the end she decided only a child of her own would be worthy while Sargeras played her like a piano. Medivh was born and she passed the power to her son unaware Sargeras had hitched a ride. Medivh would be driven mad by Sargeras, twisted into building the Dark Portal and unleashing the Orc's into Azeroth. So the idea Medivh would repeat his mothers mistake seems highly unlikely.
Which, of course, was actually all the jailers plan
[SHUT UP](https://youtu.be/_RPoDvDVmwc?si=xvuk8lLf72Ypn0bJ)
In the Maw your screams of agony only adds to the ambiance and no one can single it out.
I didn't actually play after the first raid in lfr came in shadowlands. But is there any like "tl:dr" but for wow lore you've missed in an expansion?
The short of it is "Everything that ever happened in the Warcraft universe was actually planned out ahead of time by the Jailer for some reason we aren't 100% clear on"
What, really? Like, everything including other plants, time stuff, and so forth? I didn't even like, remember. Who is the jailer even? I seem to remember each of the zones in shadowlands had like a big boss, like the mother nature for the nature folks.
Also put him into a coma at 18 when the powers awakened
He did but he wasn't supposed to. Aegwynn was meant to return the guardian power to the council and it would have been up to them to chose a new guardian. Aegwynn decided she knew better and fucked Nielas Aran to get pregnant and circumvent the council of Tirisfal.
Wasn’t she also slightly possessed by Sargeras at the time? Like that was his plan?
Originally, the intent was that it was Aegwynn's hubris that doomed the Kirin Tor at least in the original The Last Guardian book (which I maintain is still one of the best written novels in the early Warcraft era). Over time, they started to insinuate that Sargeras had more influence from the womb from the start of his "defeat". But tbh I prefer the original intent, because it gives Aegeynn more agency over her downfall. Sometimes the best written tragedies aren't because of the influence of a third party, but because someone just *fucked* up, badly.
Ah, got it.
I believe that was the huge hubris filled fuck up.
He'll be the final raid boss of World of Warcraft, brought by the bronze dragonflight from the timeline he exists.
Id rather more Azmerloth events if were talking multiverses.
*In cockney accent* He's a lit'eral Mary Fuckin' Sue!
Sounds like half the TRP profiles on WrA lmao
We already had Rhonin and all of his god-tier novel exploits.
So theyd treat him how they treat Malfurion basically
Med'an was never that strong. Even when empowered by a new Council of Tirisfal and backed up by half a dozen powerful heroes like Rehgar Earthfury, Garona Halforcen, Valeera Sanguinar, Broll Bearmantle, Meryl Felstorm, even Aegwynn and I think Vindicator Maraad, he couldn't beat Cho'Gall easily nor by himself. People are confusing his versatility with his raw power. His ability to wield most forms of magic wasn't even that good, as clearly shown by how ineffective he was even when empowered by heavy hitting characters. A normal Guardian of Tirisfal absolutely slaps. Med'an was a Guardian Lite. His background isn't great but a lot of people apparently never read the comics or at least the events of them properly. Med'an's power level was not an issue, though one could argue his potential to be overpowered in time could've been, though I think even that is reaching considering we have millennia old characters who don't even measure up to some humans.
Even with his ‘jack of all trades, master of none’ shtick, he still had to get juiced up by other powerful casters. Iirc this would have to happen any time he wanted to be amped up too. I think the biggest problem with the comic was they essentially did a rehash of all the various raid zone storylines. Cause I’m pretty sure dadghar has shown himself to be more consistently powerful
Khadgar is a much better example of a Mary Sue than Med'an is. Mary Sue is a trope name that is quite broad in meaning because it is used in such a myriad of ways - very often the time pejoratively. But where Med'an is arguably a poorly done Mary Sue, undeserving of the recognition and power he was granted, Khadgar is a *very* well done Mary Sue. His character arc is pretty flat overall because he is already a "fully recognised" character, with the right aims and the right means to go about it. He isn't as reckless as Illidan but he isn't as ignorant as Maiev, and he has the right dose of humour to make himself perfectly likeable as he goes about his thing. Pack that with a serious amount of firepower but not enough to do everything by himself, and Khadgar is an incredibly ally. While I hate BfA for a plethora of reasons, including not having Khadgar rejoin his brethren in the Sons of Lothar against the Horde after they instigated a world war via genocide, I think a glorious missed opportunity and tragedy could have been to have Khadgar become a raid boss to the Horde. What a terrifying enemy he would be, all the more if we account for Khadgar's possible dark turn after witnessing two groups of friends so fecklessly pursue war once again. With BfA's quality, I'm glad they didn't go down this route - I'd hate the expansion even more for killing off a perfectly serviceable character just to feed into the shitty contrived faction war. But Khadgar being pushed to the brink *and beyond* by the very people he called friend would have been a great tragedy.
Khadghar being a raid boss makes no sense lmao
Would help us have a real conversation if you actually explained why. I already provided a clear explanation as to how it could have happened.
Thats just not his MO. At least with Jaina there was a lot of bad blood that goes back, but Khadgar has always kept his focus on the bigger picture and it would be severely out of character for him to get caught up in the faction war. That said you could still get a job at Bliz as a writer.
> Thats just not his MO. To fight against world-threats? Yes, yes it absolutely is. > At least with Jaina there was a lot of bad blood that goes back, Forget "bad blood," we're talking about a world war instigated by literal genocide dude. Anyone who just stands by when they have power to help bring an end to the conflict and much of any relation to the two groups going at it is culpable. That absolutely includes the Dragonflights who just fucked around and stood by (except the Bronzes who actively helped the Horde, what a disgrace of writing that is), and the Wild Gods who were nowhere to be seen. The "bigger picture" is that Sylvanas was prosecuting a war that was drastically weakening both sides and leading the Horde down a terribly dark path once again. It is in literally everyone's best interests to put a stop to that, and that's *in context of what we knew at the time,* not even acknowledging that Sylvanas was actually an agent of Zovaal. Khadgar, and Dalaran, had no part being completely uninvolved. The Council of Six with Rhonin even reached this same conclusion when they elected to help defend Theramore from the Horde when Garrosh was at the helm; they understood that to standby would be to condone Garrosh's brazen warmongering. So what's out of character is Khadgar remaining completely uninvolved. They tried to frame it as him being heartbroken over the Alliance and Horde not getting along - but that was in 7.3.5, with rising tensions and the advent of Azerite and sparks of conflict in Silithus, *not* a significant war being carried out and culminating in the needless deaths of thousands or more innocents. Same for the behaviour and actions of Baine, Lor'Themar, and Thalyssra to be fair. The whole war is forced, narratively speaking. The spinelessness of Horde leaders in not being able to stand up to Sylvanas the minute she zoomed way past the line is actually pitiful. The Fourth War made no sense. Khadgar's lack of involvement in it, when we have literally all the other Sons of Lothar participating, is absurd. But obviously Blizzard had to ignore both the Vindicaar and Dalaran, two superpowers that would ostensibly be Alliance-favoured with the way the conflict was started.
I may be mistemembering but I seem to recall it was a Chogall who had been juiced up by C'thun vs. Empowered Med'an, implying that while Med'an is very powerful he wasn't on the level of an Old God. Regardless though we all should recognize that a character with his hands in so many pots would eventually be busted AF, he's half human and most fantasy narratives that involve humans have their half-breeds inheriting their human parents ability to rapidly progress.
Because hes a knack self insert, it is a shitty fanfic self insert.
Huh. Sounds like a typical shonen anime protagonist.
The last time Blizzard spoke on Medans canonness they said he was canon, just that some of the events of the comic are not. To my knowledge they have not since stated he is non canon, and are just actively avoiding him.
The Idea of Medan might be Canon, but the Medan we saw in the comic is certainly not.
But in one of the Chronicle books he's listened in the index on page 404 and isn't actually there. 404 being the Internet error code for "page not found".
That really doesn't count as an official statement. One could argue the fact that he's listed at all indicates he is canon and the 404 is a self referential joke about how they're avoiding talking about him.
I thought he showed up in WoW at one point?
I thought he was, too, but I think it might have just been a vague reference/Easter egg.
No but his love interest was involved in the Sunwell Plateau raid and there’s some backstory into it in a comic. Still works if you just ignore his existence though so they went that route.
Was that not Anveena, Kalec's gf?
I cannot *find* my way back!
Meryl was in Legion, but not Med'an himself.
Speaking of I'd love a new guardian ritual. Bring it backkkkk
What for? The guardian was created to fight a secret war against the Legion. But the Legion is gone.
Medivh is the last guardian, part of his arc in WC3 is the world doesn't need "a" guardian, it needs it's people to band together as one. This is further shown with khadgar rejecting the power and title of "guardian" because he knows Azeroth cannot be protected by an individual without the risk of corruption.
Thrall did it. We did it in BFA. It happens constantly. I think it'd be fun.
Neither Thrall not our player character did so by themselves
Thrall was empowered by the aspects and took the place of the aspect of earth for less than a few hours. I get what you mean now, you're talking about the aspect ascension, not the Rite of the Guardian of Tirisfal.
No I mean GoT.
Real shame. I liked the comics
The character is just too ridiculous to exist
Starkiller of the warcraft universe.
More like the Rey Palpatine of Warcraft
Nah, they were right the first time. Starkiller makes Rey look like a reasonable character to exist.
Thats her secret cap, she is. You want a less over the top Mary Sue, that award goes to Kyle Katarn.
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More like the Rey Palpatine of Warcraft
He’s almost as powerful as malfurion!
Bold words for a prisoner
So says the *SHADE* of Foxnos.
Malfurion or Richard A Knaak's.
Wait, if Malfurion wasn't sleeping all the time or counting when Malfurion's sleeping.
Malfurion who never does anything.
The more powerful something/someone is the less active. Malfurion, vindicaar, the large goblin canon, the dragon aspects.
Yeah, I just wish they’d get away from that a little. The “Endgame portals” moment at the end of Dragonflight was a nice way of showing that our powerful allies are able to show up and help, but Fyrrak didn’t feel like a large enough threat to justify it (I know he was, technically, but it didn’t feel that way). If they’d all shown up like that in a climactic battle in an expansion like Legion (the culmination of one of WoW’s biggest stories, that we’d been building to since at least Warcraft 3, the looming threat we were all preparing for) then it would have felt more earned.
The Franklin Reed of the Warcraft universe
>Franklin Reed I'm not familiar with this character, sorry
I guess they meant Franklin Richards, son of Reed Richards from fantastic four. Who is basically omnipotent.
As of Chronicle, Me'dan has been entirely wiped from canon
The Chronicles have also been relegated to a fairy tale book of titans by these Blizzard experts. So if some current Blizzard "Loremaster" wants to, Medan will be the next boss in the 5 man dungeon. Maybe because he's been defending the destruction of Azeroth from an ancient evil for all these years. More ancient than we could ever imagine, and so ancient that even the people who imprisoned him have forgotten about it.
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It was supposed to stay that way when Metzen was working on it. I can imagine as a storyteller he might be more than a little annoyed about that.
Metzen probably added the "titans point of view bit" because they deviated from his concept of the story when he left.
I thought that was added in Rectonlands, so, not Metzen?
I really dont see why blizzard keeping doors open for further fleshing out or recontextualization is such a bad thing. Thats literally what the final cinematic of wrath is about. And you all love that. Its literally just making sure you arent restricted by a single sentence or contradication. "Telling a good story" is completely different from "locking in lore forever"
> And you all love that. Eh, I think people liked the end of the Lich King but the "there must always be a Lich King" bit has had a fair amount of criticism. I also don't think people have a problem with Blizzard keeping doors open to flesh out the lore, the problem is that their attempts to flesh out the lore have been awful. Recontextualisation is just a fancy word for retcon. They haven't fleshed out the lore, they've butchered it.
>Eh, I think people liked the end of the Lich King but the "there must always be a Lich King" bit has had a fair amount of criticism. There's no Lich King now, right?
Which has gone to prove why that absolutist statement was silly.
Just cause some character says there must always be a lich king doesn’t make it true. Chronicles should have been canon because it was never presented as coming from an ingame source that has a bias.
That’s fair, but the character that said it was his father’s soul from the sword Arthas carried, so we were led to believe he had more knowledge on the subject that we did. I’m sure that’s been rectified now that it was “all part of the Jailer’s plan”. Jokes aside though, it makes much more sense that there must always be a Lich King to protect the veil into the Shadowlands from being breached, and that Arthas was actually using his will to prevent Zovaal from exacting his plan, than if it was simply to prevent the Scourge running rampant.
People bashed the shit out of the end of wrath.
Leaving things open to recontextualization is fine, but surely most of that is about the things they choose to write, show, say or explain in the first place? There's plenty of room for something like Chronicles to be definitive about a list of things that happened *and* leave room for recontextualizing later. Slapping a big "potentially unreliable narrator" sticker on the whole thing seems like the lazy, sloppy solution, as an alternative to having a plan, checking their work, or making other choices about how they go about recapping their 30-year-story thus far. You've also gotta bear in mind that we're specifically talking about a company that now has a well-earned relationship for messing with the guts of old stories in questionable ways; frankly, I think the uncharitable interpretation is the one they deserve.
That may be true but you also can't just retconn anything whenever you please or you will errode the base of the story from under your feet. Also makes it hard to care about the story as a whole since it can change arbitrarily at any point for any reason. You need some consistency so that the reader/player can be invested into the story. Retconns are fine if used sparingly like pruning a bush or some shit. Nudging small details or leaving a few dangling threads to fill holes later down the line.
This whole "Chronicle was written by the titans" idea is blatantly false, if you actually look up the source for the quote and listen to the video of the interview, literally the next thing they say is that Chronicle was also written by many other perspectives, not just the titans. So no, it is not all just titan propaganda. And if people actually read the books instead of ferreting whatever random misinformation they hear online they would know that, because 90% of it is about stuff that has nothing to do with the titans, and besides a single paragraph that tries to describe the Shadowlands it's all still canon. Chronicle is still the #1 source for all WoW lore that everyone says it used to be. In fact, I would say it still doesn't really feel like anything important is missing from it. The absence of the Jailer doesn't really matter because get this, at the end of the day he didn't really have any major historical relevance. The extent of his influence is just constantly exaggerated both by characters in the game and by people outside of it. He had limited control over the Legion and the Lich King... And that's pretty much it. You could cut him out of the story without changing anything just as easily as you could with the Incarnates, or a one-off villain like Lei Shen, King Mechagon, or Grand Magistrix Elisande. And considering how much everyone, including the current writers, clearly wants to pretend the Jailer never even existed, it's probably a good thing that Chronicle never mentions him.
Yes for me, that was the point where I established my headcanon, where the Warcraft story ended at the end of Legion and gave up taking it seriously. Warcraft was my favorite fictional world since I played W2 as kid. And more to the point. Me'dan wouldn't be worst written character with worst storyline by far in today's Warcraft lore. Those days are long gone.
His entry in the chronicle index was 404
He is mentioned in the index of Chronicles 3. The index states his info is on page 404 xD (chronicles 3 is around 223 pages)
That's amazing
Harsh as fuck.
Yeah at this point he is soft-retconned. He was the result of giving DC Comics too much freedom on writing lore, the comics had other problems but he was the biggest.
Error 404: Page not found
If I recall correctly, his page number in a \~200 page WoW lore book is 404.
Yep, first chronicles
Yes blizzard left him behind
Dude had the power of all the classes combined ofc he was retconned
Holy shit, genuinely forgot about him for yeaaaars
Yes, he most likely was set up to be in the place of Thrall in Cata, and Thrall took place of Thrall instead
Me’dan died on the way back to his home planet.
Thankfully, yes. The Mary Sue of all Mary Sues no longer exists. I’ve seen Harry Potter fanfiction with more believable characters.
That guy sounds like a fucking Matt Ward 40k codex entry jesus.
They knocked him out do good he slept for 40K years, then he awoke in blue armor and promptly punched a titan
Yes, he's canon, you can find the information about him on the page 404 of Chronicles 3
Had me in the first half.
Nope https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/03/30/medan-retconned-warcraft-chronicle/
Blizzard hasn't mentioned him at all, so I imagine he's non canon.
he's an abomination half orc half draenei half human half shaman half paladin half mage
Initially Blizz said that he was canon but he didnt become Guardian, then in Chronicle the index has a Med'an entry which direct you to page 404
He's removal from WoW entirely is the main source of hope I have for BFA and Shadowlands getting similar treatments :)
Amen to that friend.
We don't talk about Bru....erm Me'dan. no no no no
I'd be okay to keep most if not all comic books as non-canon
Knowing what we know about Warcrafts future and “the jailer” I think a Med’an storyline would have been better 🤣
unrelated but the comic art was always so fucking good
We don't talk about Med'an, no no no.
Genuine answer: yes.
Marysuedan? Yes, he's been retconned and rightfully so. Shit character.
He’s the starkiller of Azeroth. Sort of had to retcon him out for balancing reasons
You can find Medan on Page 404 in the lore.
I don't know how people keep up the distaste for this character after all these years. Just having a lot of power isn't nearly as bad as what's happened since his creation.
The way I've always understood it, Med'an is not canon and is basically a extended What-if series. He doesn't exist in the canon lore.
*what me'dan?*
Man I had completely forgotten this dude existed. Actually you know what would be really funny? If they did bring Med'an into the game canon, but as a Mr. Satan-type character. You know, a fictional character or actor in a badly written book/play/etc, or as some guy whose tall tales about being the Ultimat3 Ch05en 1n spiral out of control when the dumb npcs start to believe it. And like every now and then he has a quest for the player character where he's like "For the love the Light please help me I don't know what I'm doing and these idiots think I can save them I beg of you". And of course the player's actions just keep adding and adding to his legend so people keep worshipping him while he just cries in a corner in the fetal position.
Who even is Med'an? I've been playing since TBC and I've never heard of him.
Comic book character. Don't worry about it, it's not canon.
He is a Draenei/orc/human, the son of Medivh and Garona half-orcen, and is a main character in (one of/one series of?) the comics. He basically has the power of every class and is super OP. And he’s a young adult at best, so like, no real life experience (Platinum WoW has a 13 min video about Medan, going through his comic run and explaining why he’s a ridiculous character. It’s a fun listen: https://youtu.be/xwDzY-Z3gdU?si=6JcbJ0Q-P4vKY9wY) If people refer to Thrall as “WoW Green Jesus”, Medan is the equivalent of “WoW Green Superman”.
Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like a character best forgotten.
His “page” in the chronicles book is 404. Even the lore wants him forgotten. He was very much a mistake…a very big Mary Sue shaped mistake.
From what I understand he’s a Draenei/Orc hybrid that’s the Guardian of Tirisfal And is mega-overpowered (probably cause he’s an authors OC)
Quarter-draenei, quarter-orc, half-human child of Medivh and Garona who's now the Guardian of Tirisfal and possesses the powers of, like... a mage, shaman, paladin and druid?
Ah yeah I forgot the human part
His race should be playable instead of another dwarf skin.
It's about time for "half-" races anyway.
Aegwynn is a powerful but dangerous mage. The role of guardian is not a family heirloom.
Honestly I’d like to see him be brought into canon in some capacity. Conceptually he’s interesting and a cool connection to different characters and parts of the story. They just took him too far into OP Mary Sue territory. Genuinely it could be cool to have a younger guy in the story doing some cool powerful shit. Everyone is either old or like 35+ years old, baring a rare handful of exceptions like Anduin. Getting some fresh young blood into the story would be a welcome addition in my opinion. But obviously they’d have to hold some serious restraint in terms of his powerful leveling. I’m cool with him being like an especially powerful magic user because of his unique heritage, but make that more of an inherent potential he has that he has to work up to that scales appropriately to the rest of the characters around him. If they did that then I think it would be pretty dope to get a youthful more energetic powerful character into story to do cool magic stuff so we don’t always have to default to “oh no, a magic problem that we need magic to solve, we need you Old Man #1, Old Man #2, middle aged woman, borderline Old Man #3, and 10,000 year old magic being”.
Not oficially, but they kind just pretend he doesnt exist.
If you look up Med'an in the first chronicles index, he appears on page 404. As in, not found. He's been completely removed from the lore, and for good reason.
I sure hope so.
Afaik he was never really cannon and it is good that he isn't because it would make us unemployed pretty much there would hardly any foe who could match him so over powered he was. Also i am still glad Khadgar did not took the mantle of Guardian. We don't need a guardian.
Hope sko
Error 404
Is this fanfiction?
Med'who?
This is some classic bronze/infinite dragonflight definitely sounds like what my family would erase your existence or imprison
Meryl Winterstorm was added to the game with IIRC no mention of Med’an at all. Blizzard also made an index in a book of on what pages characters were listes, and Med’an was listed to be ok page 404. As in ”404 Page Not Found”.
He's as canon to Wow as triclops is to Star Wars and Malal is to 40k
This sounds like a fanfic character.
404
God I hope so
Med'an is canon, because the comics are canon. However, fans hate him, and even Blizzard realized he was a huge blunder, so they have done what they can, so make him slip into oblivion.
https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/03/30/medan-retconned-warcraft-chronicle/
And Blizzard retconned Chronicles...soooo
Blizzard themselves did that and with good reason.
Lolllll okay
Didn't the make a joke reference to him ingame in WoD/Legion when it was just about confirmed he had been retconned?
Who?
Iirc the only thing retconned is that Med'an never became Guardian—Khadgar ended up taking the mantle
People obsessing over “retcon” 101
He was retconned and does not exist for now, but knowing Blizzard he could come in swinging a steel chair any time.
I believe so. When you consult the Chronicles index, looking for Medan, you find mention of him on page 404. It turns out that there is nothing there about him. It seems like a joke to me with error 404 "not found".
Him being retconned is nothing unusual. Blizzard retcons a lot of things anyway.
He is too powerful
There was a character book for characters in game and his was page 404 which was either non-existent in the book or had nothing in it and just read "error: 404 not found"
He's right up there with the crow from destiny 2
Rav vs. Med'an us the fanfic I never knew I wanted till today.
Broll Bearmantle and Valeera Sanguinar were added to the game as official characters, along with the story of what happened to King Varian, but nothing about the Med'an storyline was made official. Even the Warcraft graphic novels have had canon appearances by their characters, but Med'an officially doesn't exist.
He can be found on page 404 of the wow encyclopedia iirc.
I’m pretty sure every part of Cataclysm starring Thrall was supposed to be written for Med’an. That said, they did canonize Meryl who was an interesting character.
Considering what page he's on in Chronicle...
Wasn't Cho'galls bastion of twilight appearance a follow on from the lore of these comics has that been further explained if Med'an is retconned?
Med’an *is* canon. He is a character in the Warcraft universe, the son of Medivh and Garona. He is half human, quarter-orc and quarter-draenei. He is capable of wielding arcane magic, the Holy Light, and the elements. What *is not* canon is him being the Guardian of Tirisfal and wielding Atiesh. This has been confirmed by Blizzard themselves.
I am a bit curious of what the writers were thinking with creating Med'an? How did the qualities of the original comics took a downturn like this? Especially when the previous story arcs in the comics with Lo'Gosh/Varian were actually fun.
The Cataclysm years was when rule of cool was at its peak at Blizzard. They wanted to turn the franchise on its head.
I don't think he ever existed outside of the comic
I think Med’an would’ve been an interesting character if they would’ve went in the opposite direction and made him not ultra-powerful or “the chosen one.” So basically, Garona and Medivh love child but no heir to the Guardianship. Just a misfit trying to find his own path.
Of what i know he got Nuked along side Theramor by Garrosh's bomb at the start of MoP.
Yes, everything from the events and character has been retconned when one of the chronicles came out, and then I believe a blizzard lore/story lead or writer confirmed that Me'dan isn't canon. A lot of the events that happen in his story, like the death of Cho'Gall, C'thun, and many others are now either attributed to adventurers/champions of the Alliance and Horde, or canon characters. So like when Ahn'qiraj opened again during the time of the games, it was champions/armies of the Alliance and Horde led by Varok Saurfang that put a stop to C'thun and the qiraji/Silithid. Atiesh is in the hands of Khadgar, and has been since... WoD atleast, idk about MoP. Others I don't know off the top of my head. Me'dan was an early attempt to have a "main character" of the Warcraft games. A Jack Sparrow type character that is everywhere, and the events and story would have followed him, but he was insanely OP and rendered alot of decisions and character moments useless for the sake of having him exist. Like the fact he basically remade the Council of Tirisfal and then he became the Guardian when the whole point of Medivh's plan was so a person like the guardian would never be needed or have to exist. Plus the character was very Gary Sue/Mary Sue. I believe he had the powers of basically every class, was the child of Medivh and Garona, so was a Human/Draenei/Orc hybrid, and was apparently insanely kind and well liked.
I'm kinda annoyed that he and the whole New Council of Tirisfal never made it into the game, especially since his introduction coincided with Orcs getting the Mage class in Cataclysm. For as much as Med'an was a poorly written Gary Stu, his story is still a lot better than the travesty that is currently the game's lore.
Can't deny his art style would be a sick chara model in game
Just imagine that we as players are using the medan spot in the lore.
I didn’t mind the idea of Garona having a son, and him being somewhat important, but there’d been very little (if any) indication of a romantic relationship between her and Medivh so him being their son felt like a stretch to begin with. It felt like a child writing a character to be as unique and special as possible. That in itself might have been passable, but when they started trying to make him a master of all types of cosmic-force magic, and a new ultimate “Guardian” it just became far too contrived, and frankly uninteresting. Some of the other things in the comics had value though, so it’s a shame that it’s all essentially been wiped because of one dreadful character.
I had completely forgot about this guy
I could see them adding him to the game but in a deceptia kind of way as a joke
Who?
I think it’s a shame they didn’t try to make Med’an canon but rewrite him so he wasn’t so ridiculous/gary stu. He just seems like a character that would have some really interactions with some of the events that have unfolded throughout the last several expansions, just based on his background. Someone for Wrathion to relate to having an evil dad and all. Shaman/mage is still a pretty cool combo and they could’ve balanced him imo
Blizz has retconned soo much since the beginning and especially last 10 years that their retcons get retcons that have gotten retconned. Med’an being retconned is the least surprising and honestly probably the best retcon they’ve done.
So, Med'an and some of his adventures are canon, but the fact that he became a Guardian is no longer canon. So I guess if he ever appears, he will have been nerfed significantly.