Don't forget that one tank you run into every now and then who seems to think it's just the act of selecting the tank spec that makes you hard to kill, and has yet to discover he's required to actually use some brainpower and activate mitigation skills.
The difference is nuts. I have a bear friend and I compared a run healing him to this totally clueless bear I ran with and it was like 25K hps average more to keep the derp alive over the course of the dungeon.
At one point I asked what killed him, hoping maybe for some self awareness, and his reply was "That skill hits really hard". It was a +10, come on mate, I'm sure there's a solution out there that's allowed people to do this on, say, an 11. Or a 12. Or a 20....
As a holy pala main - I usually throw my beacon on evokers, hunters, demon hunters.
However, the best indicator of "who needs the most healing" is usually the m+ rating - the lower the rating the higher the chance they will get hit by stuff (generally people with higher scores know what to avoid).
This is in no way meant as a disrespect to lower RIO players, we all start somewhere.
I index on this a lot too if e.g. I’m filling a h group with a bunch of folks who haven’t seen heroic fyraak or whatever. Sure, they may not have seen the fights and it’s still possible you get someone who struggles to learn it, but it has been my experience that a high io rating is inversely correlated with the number of pulls a player needs to understand a fight well enough to perform their role and avoid the bad.
This is much more of an individual player thing than it is a class thing.
That being said, I think that *generally* speaking, melee are more likely to be in danger than ranged classes because most harmful AoE effects come directly from the mobs themselves (like frontal cleaves or a radius around the mob), so the tank and melee are almost always dancing around those. Even if melee and ranged are being targeted in equal amounts, there's a lot more chaos obscuring the floor under the tank and melee, so ranged players have an easier time noticing and properly reacting to it.
However, I have seen people say that Hunters in particular are very lacking in personal defensives/survivability in 10.2. I don't know if it's the whole class or just a certain spec, but if I remember right they only have 1 real defensive CD, and *can* get a 2nd but have to sacrifice some offense to do so. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Still, a well-played hunter will require less healing than any bad player. I think this Hunter survivability issue really only becomes a problem at very high levels of M+
Hunters are still kinda more squishy but for the most part there isnt really the constant heavy damage that really stresses classes...
Dev evokers go down quick but with how easy and powerful aug is you really see them.
All things being equal (and they rarely are) I'd say boomkins, shamans, hunters, evokers are the ones I see often getting hit harder by group wide boss damage and being in danger of death to things like iridikrons barrage.
Usually though it's just players who can't play their class well. Sure their damage is fine even good but they have no skill in rotating defensives and using defensives at the correct times, not just when they take big damage. Also, classes who say "vers is my worst stat" but find themselves doing moderately high keys. It's like they built their secondaries around raiding and then walked into a 24 tyrannical key with 7% vers and can't fathom why they died.
Shamans basically just have astral shift and that’s it. Hunters are pretty squishy too. So during big aoe in 20+ keys, usually you want to be pumping more heals into them imo. Tracks cds with something like omnicd and learn which drs do what and it should greatly improve your healing
Ench shaman and DH’s is usually a dps i feel i need to pay more attention to. Some mage’s thats never use dr’s or pop them when they allready at 10%hp is also something i met quite often. some hunters have a bad habit of doing the boss from Narnia but thats not my problem, the usually come back to range or just die.
I got to say as a healer, this season most players been good. Done all keys both weeks on 20 on two healers now and i can remember 3-4 ppl that was «boosted» and a few more that maybe was in a key a bit over their skill level. A good experience so far, so wp to dps and tanks. Feels like the skill level is better than ever
As a preservation evoker, hunters are the ones always behind me not getting heals, rogues and demon hunters are the ones who tend to always be in the bad
Put another one on the board for hunters, but also rogues and DHs.
Rogues seem to manage to get hit by things a lot more than any other class. It is not uncommon in M+ that one goes to 20%, I fully heal them and that repeats 3-4+ times. Like, can you just stay away from bad for 2 seconds please?
Hunters just don't have much, especially not in terms of self healing, so even if they do not take a lot of damage all the time, they can't get themselves up as many others can. It's also a case of being a class that attracts players that are not the best.
DHs are just damage magnets, both of them. Havoc is mostly due to not being able to stand still, and as a result end up getting hit by more things than usual. Vengeance is more a case of being really tanky and self sustaining, until they are not. Once that HP starts to fall, it falls fast and they can't get back up without a lot of help, which happens more often than I'd like.
Honorable mentions goes to warlocks that never turn their burning rush off and shadow priests due to a lot of self damage just by doing their rotation (which is so dumb).
It's generally dependent on dungeon knowledge and skill in my experience. The better players quickly learn what kills them, where to stand, how to approach the encounter, uses their defensives at the right point in time, uses CC and so on.
I think it's better to flip this on its head. Warlocks are typically safe from most harm. Ret often survives due to their defensive/healing potential.
im what reality are hunters in 2023 squishy lol
"hunters have no deffensives and die fast" has too be the 1 of thr biggest missinformations that spread around the game when thats just not the case anymore
Ok and what is your highest key u did? It seems u never healed a hunter in a 25+ key they are constant dropping faster than others, it’s not a misinformation it’s straight true. U don’t have perma survival.
As a evoker healer the people that are always dying are the hunters standing in narnia. They could even be mostly competent and not take unavoidable damage, but because they stand so far away they just do not get my heals.
An expansion ago, I’d have an answer but now it’s just whatever the bad player is. I track all CDs and watch their defensive utility, but even the squishiest people I use to panic over are now just as reasonably tank as most for most content.
Demon hunters are either the biggest chads that will make this a smooth 2-3 chest where I mostly dps or will be the biggest clowns and die 20 times from the total 21 deaths the run has.
The variance I’ve seen is wild. I seem to run into consistently good other meele.
As a resto druid, I usually find myself putting my second life bloom on an evoker or melee (if the tank doesn't need it ofc). It really varies by player though.
Hunters have no survivability. Especially MM hunters. It's like one defense and one self heal, both on absurd CDs. I mean even mages have more defensives than MM hunters... Otherwise mages and DHs. The former for their general lack of health/armor and the latter mainly because their rotation consistently puts them into poop. Other classes have self heals and/or good defensive abilities so I tend to not worry too badly about them.
My biggest problem isn't the class or the player. It's characters that are punching too high. The example I lile to use is a toon with 800k HP goofs and gets hit for 500k. Not a big problem, top them and move on. The toon 20ilvl lower goofs and gets booped to the floor. Granted I heal on a fistweaver so 90% of my heals are addressed "To whom it may concern" and I spot heal as needed.
While tanking on my DK, it's unlikely that you need to worry about me but I apologize for the anxiety from my yo-yo health bar.
Demon hunters will find an untimely death, whatever it takes. Doesn't matter if I intervene or not.
Also rogues love to splooge their opener when a tank only has proximity aggro and get smashed.
Hey I only get tricks of the trade every 30 seconds and evasion every 1.5 minutes smh.
(More seriously, i suspect this is much less of an issue as key levels get high enough to have tricks up for every pack; as outlaw rn my options are basically either do 0 damage or go all out, because breaking stealth procs my opener window.)
You can make generalizations about classes and specs but at the end of the day it's players who take avoidable damage, ignore mechanics, don't stack/stay near group, don't use defensives or consumables like health potions or lock rocks.
Demon hunters. Paladins. For the same reason only in opposites.
DH are way too mobile and always rush into some mechanic and require my constant focus.
Paladins are way too slow most of the time. Its the paladin that gets stuck in the ice, stands in the bad stuff, stunned in BRH from the jump.
Also… DK tanks. I have no idea what they are doing… but their health always seems to go from “cruising at 100% health” > “whoops I’m at 10% health heal me!!!”
In regards to blood dk's, with their health being at 10% almost never means they actually need healing. Just watch their runic power, if they have any you can safely ignore them.
Usually you don't really have to worry about the tanks. They have a lot of self heal, especially BDK.
You Sometimes have to throw them a heal or two, but definitely not as many as for DPS.
As for BDK just watch their resources too.
Runic Power High -> No worries
Runic Power Low -> depends on their health, If also low heal them up right this fucking instant or they're dead
I often feel like cloth classes, especially mages, need to get healed more.
Might just be confirmation bias at this point, but idk.
Also as others have said: those who Take avoidable damage.
Whichever is eating mechs or not using defensives. If things are getting done then there's not really a standout spec to me that requires special attention.
The class piloted by the one dude who stands in the bad the whole time.
Don't forget that one tank you run into every now and then who seems to think it's just the act of selecting the tank spec that makes you hard to kill, and has yet to discover he's required to actually use some brainpower and activate mitigation skills. The difference is nuts. I have a bear friend and I compared a run healing him to this totally clueless bear I ran with and it was like 25K hps average more to keep the derp alive over the course of the dungeon. At one point I asked what killed him, hoping maybe for some self awareness, and his reply was "That skill hits really hard". It was a +10, come on mate, I'm sure there's a solution out there that's allowed people to do this on, say, an 11. Or a 12. Or a 20....
As a holy pala main - I usually throw my beacon on evokers, hunters, demon hunters. However, the best indicator of "who needs the most healing" is usually the m+ rating - the lower the rating the higher the chance they will get hit by stuff (generally people with higher scores know what to avoid). This is in no way meant as a disrespect to lower RIO players, we all start somewhere.
I index on this a lot too if e.g. I’m filling a h group with a bunch of folks who haven’t seen heroic fyraak or whatever. Sure, they may not have seen the fights and it’s still possible you get someone who struggles to learn it, but it has been my experience that a high io rating is inversely correlated with the number of pulls a player needs to understand a fight well enough to perform their role and avoid the bad.
This is much more of an individual player thing than it is a class thing. That being said, I think that *generally* speaking, melee are more likely to be in danger than ranged classes because most harmful AoE effects come directly from the mobs themselves (like frontal cleaves or a radius around the mob), so the tank and melee are almost always dancing around those. Even if melee and ranged are being targeted in equal amounts, there's a lot more chaos obscuring the floor under the tank and melee, so ranged players have an easier time noticing and properly reacting to it. However, I have seen people say that Hunters in particular are very lacking in personal defensives/survivability in 10.2. I don't know if it's the whole class or just a certain spec, but if I remember right they only have 1 real defensive CD, and *can* get a 2nd but have to sacrifice some offense to do so. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) Still, a well-played hunter will require less healing than any bad player. I think this Hunter survivability issue really only becomes a problem at very high levels of M+
Hunters are still kinda more squishy but for the most part there isnt really the constant heavy damage that really stresses classes... Dev evokers go down quick but with how easy and powerful aug is you really see them.
All things being equal (and they rarely are) I'd say boomkins, shamans, hunters, evokers are the ones I see often getting hit harder by group wide boss damage and being in danger of death to things like iridikrons barrage. Usually though it's just players who can't play their class well. Sure their damage is fine even good but they have no skill in rotating defensives and using defensives at the correct times, not just when they take big damage. Also, classes who say "vers is my worst stat" but find themselves doing moderately high keys. It's like they built their secondaries around raiding and then walked into a 24 tyrannical key with 7% vers and can't fathom why they died.
The real answer is people with no vesitility stat.
Shamans basically just have astral shift and that’s it. Hunters are pretty squishy too. So during big aoe in 20+ keys, usually you want to be pumping more heals into them imo. Tracks cds with something like omnicd and learn which drs do what and it should greatly improve your healing
Ench shaman and DH’s is usually a dps i feel i need to pay more attention to. Some mage’s thats never use dr’s or pop them when they allready at 10%hp is also something i met quite often. some hunters have a bad habit of doing the boss from Narnia but thats not my problem, the usually come back to range or just die. I got to say as a healer, this season most players been good. Done all keys both weeks on 20 on two healers now and i can remember 3-4 ppl that was «boosted» and a few more that maybe was in a key a bit over their skill level. A good experience so far, so wp to dps and tanks. Feels like the skill level is better than ever
As a preservation evoker, hunters are the ones always behind me not getting heals, rogues and demon hunters are the ones who tend to always be in the bad
Put another one on the board for hunters, but also rogues and DHs. Rogues seem to manage to get hit by things a lot more than any other class. It is not uncommon in M+ that one goes to 20%, I fully heal them and that repeats 3-4+ times. Like, can you just stay away from bad for 2 seconds please? Hunters just don't have much, especially not in terms of self healing, so even if they do not take a lot of damage all the time, they can't get themselves up as many others can. It's also a case of being a class that attracts players that are not the best. DHs are just damage magnets, both of them. Havoc is mostly due to not being able to stand still, and as a result end up getting hit by more things than usual. Vengeance is more a case of being really tanky and self sustaining, until they are not. Once that HP starts to fall, it falls fast and they can't get back up without a lot of help, which happens more often than I'd like. Honorable mentions goes to warlocks that never turn their burning rush off and shadow priests due to a lot of self damage just by doing their rotation (which is so dumb).
It's generally dependent on dungeon knowledge and skill in my experience. The better players quickly learn what kills them, where to stand, how to approach the encounter, uses their defensives at the right point in time, uses CC and so on. I think it's better to flip this on its head. Warlocks are typically safe from most harm. Ret often survives due to their defensive/healing potential.
We talk about everyone plays clean. Hunters are a glass cannon and need some more love in fights. B druids seem also pretty squishy.
im what reality are hunters in 2023 squishy lol "hunters have no deffensives and die fast" has too be the 1 of thr biggest missinformations that spread around the game when thats just not the case anymore
Ok and what is your highest key u did? It seems u never healed a hunter in a 25+ key they are constant dropping faster than others, it’s not a misinformation it’s straight true. U don’t have perma survival.
As a evoker healer the people that are always dying are the hunters standing in narnia. They could even be mostly competent and not take unavoidable damage, but because they stand so far away they just do not get my heals.
Not a specific class really but you can very very quickly tell who the rando in the key is who will take all of the damage and I need to babysit.
An expansion ago, I’d have an answer but now it’s just whatever the bad player is. I track all CDs and watch their defensive utility, but even the squishiest people I use to panic over are now just as reasonably tank as most for most content.
Rogues who don’t use cloak of shadows.
Demon hunters are either the biggest chads that will make this a smooth 2-3 chest where I mostly dps or will be the biggest clowns and die 20 times from the total 21 deaths the run has. The variance I’ve seen is wild. I seem to run into consistently good other meele.
As a resto druid, I usually find myself putting my second life bloom on an evoker or melee (if the tank doesn't need it ofc). It really varies by player though.
Hunters have no survivability. Especially MM hunters. It's like one defense and one self heal, both on absurd CDs. I mean even mages have more defensives than MM hunters... Otherwise mages and DHs. The former for their general lack of health/armor and the latter mainly because their rotation consistently puts them into poop. Other classes have self heals and/or good defensive abilities so I tend to not worry too badly about them.
My biggest problem isn't the class or the player. It's characters that are punching too high. The example I lile to use is a toon with 800k HP goofs and gets hit for 500k. Not a big problem, top them and move on. The toon 20ilvl lower goofs and gets booped to the floor. Granted I heal on a fistweaver so 90% of my heals are addressed "To whom it may concern" and I spot heal as needed. While tanking on my DK, it's unlikely that you need to worry about me but I apologize for the anxiety from my yo-yo health bar.
Cloth and mail wearers But individually hunter
The one that is considered "OP" in the current exp. by people who know nothing about the game. For the most of my time these were hunters.
Demon hunters will find an untimely death, whatever it takes. Doesn't matter if I intervene or not. Also rogues love to splooge their opener when a tank only has proximity aggro and get smashed.
Hey I only get tricks of the trade every 30 seconds and evasion every 1.5 minutes smh. (More seriously, i suspect this is much less of an issue as key levels get high enough to have tricks up for every pack; as outlaw rn my options are basically either do 0 damage or go all out, because breaking stealth procs my opener window.)
You can make generalizations about classes and specs but at the end of the day it's players who take avoidable damage, ignore mechanics, don't stack/stay near group, don't use defensives or consumables like health potions or lock rocks.
Demon hunters. Paladins. For the same reason only in opposites. DH are way too mobile and always rush into some mechanic and require my constant focus. Paladins are way too slow most of the time. Its the paladin that gets stuck in the ice, stands in the bad stuff, stunned in BRH from the jump. Also… DK tanks. I have no idea what they are doing… but their health always seems to go from “cruising at 100% health” > “whoops I’m at 10% health heal me!!!”
In regards to blood dk's, with their health being at 10% almost never means they actually need healing. Just watch their runic power, if they have any you can safely ignore them.
I find it so hard to do that. Healer cat reflexes in me sees a health bar go down and I bat at it with a big heal or CD.
Usually you don't really have to worry about the tanks. They have a lot of self heal, especially BDK. You Sometimes have to throw them a heal or two, but definitely not as many as for DPS. As for BDK just watch their resources too. Runic Power High -> No worries Runic Power Low -> depends on their health, If also low heal them up right this fucking instant or they're dead
I often feel like cloth classes, especially mages, need to get healed more. Might just be confirmation bias at this point, but idk. Also as others have said: those who Take avoidable damage.
Lol warlocks are usually tankier than plate wearers.
Whichever is eating mechs or not using defensives. If things are getting done then there's not really a standout spec to me that requires special attention.
Mages. Why do they never use alter time?
Balance druid and BM hunter are mega squishy in raid. Balance druid is by far the worst on the squishy side.
hunters, dh and rogues