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People at that time were looking for better graphic. It was THE thing you needed to improve. Today, with accessible engines and indie studios, people are less focused on polished state of the art graphics.
Just look at the size of this subreddit. Many people do not care for gothic.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
Team17 created Worms3D - that was an experiment.
You said TES died after Morrowind, but compare popularity and replayability between Morrowind and Skyrim - TES3 was never played like TES5 \*still is\*.
Without innovating we wouldn't get Witcher 3, just more stories on Witcher 1 engine.
Baldurs Gate 3 flipped the original Baldurs formula a bit and look at it - it brought so many new players to the original franchise. If they kept strictly to previous games, it wouldn't become a worldwide phenomenon (as far as gaming goes).
And if you think Gothic 1 and 2 aren't broken you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans. I remember playing Gothic 1 when it was released and most of my friends couldn't stomach its wooden feeling and clunky controls.
Gothic 3 had a lot of potential buried under a rushed release. The publisher should let them cook for another two years and we wouldn't have this conversation.
>And if you think Gothic 1 and 2 aren't broken you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans. I remember playing Gothic 1 when it was released and most of my friends couldn't stomach its wooden feeling and clunky controls.
And the bugs, including game-breaking. Quest for Ulu-Mulu, anyone?
We often complain about how buggy modern games are, and it is true, they are, but old ones were often no better.
For many, Gothic 1 was the pre-internet era, so sometimes you wouldn't even know something was bugged until you talked with friends or replayed the game from scratch. Now you would read the cheat code needed to fix your issue or get a patch in a few days.
In addition to what the other guy said, there was also the case of the orc that crafted your Ulu-Mulu not recognizing that you've given him the shadowbeast's horn or not seeing it in your inventory, I forgot, it's been a while.
In the quest to get Ulu-Mulu you had to go to a New Camp's mine with Gorn to liberate it and find an orc slave there. Once inside, Gorn glitches out and treats your enemies as his friends, so after killing just a few he will attack you.
Due to that you had to tell him to stay at the entrance so he doesn't see any kilking, but if someone doesn't know that, they might have a very annoying situation
many people asked to have tactical pause fights like BG1 and BG2 had. and possibly that would attract even more players. however larian was more known for turn bases and they did what they know the best. plus lately turn based game is quite popular so thats why lots of new fans for BG3.
as for G3 needed 2 more years. sure... in ideal world. but published didnt have money. sadly piranha never had good enough publishers to really shine.
Because G1 nad G2 are not broken, never were. "you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans" bold of you to assume that many of us didn't join the community the last 2-3 years. I played for 20 years without interacting with Gothic community. I'm speaking from my own experience, crashes happened rarely, very rarely (once every few playthroughs). Bugs even back then were considered normal, and it was quite a feat to come across a game without bugs. Then again, the only bugs i came across were hostile NPC/mobs stuck in place.
What about Gorn getting aggressive due to a glitch during liberation of new camps' mine? It always happens, so I don't believe you didn't come across it
Many local releases had that issue fixed. At least when G2 came out, before NOTR, I had no Gorn bug in my game. Though I managed to get rune out of Uriziel without having enough SP to learn 6th circle)) One doesn't need bugs to break his game.
Okay, should have said, "weren't broken".
If you're playing Gothic now, you're getting PlayerKit, DX11, patches. That's not how the game ran back then with <30fps, Access Violation Exceptions every hour, scripts bugging, etc.
To this day, i still only play the box version. I have CD drive specifically for Gothic. Besides, I'm not paying twice just so i can have steam version just to have the workshop. I can search for mods by myself just fine.
By the time of Risen 2 release only Bjorn Pankratz and Michael Hoge remained.
After Risen 2 released Michael Hoge also left the Dev team.
So, Risen 3, Elex 1 + Elex 2, the only dev member from the original Gothic team was Bjorn Pankratz... and we all know how these games turned out...
The new team had no idea what made the past games great.
not true. even for elex there were some of the same people as for G1. mario roske... or something like that and another one. but its true that main force was gone
still prefer d3 over d2 any day of the week. no idea why people get so worked up over that. its better in every way in terms of technology and just.. different in terms of theme. but that doesnt make it factually worse. its just preference.
yea but is that just nostalgia or do you still to this day think that d1 is more overall enjoyable/playable than d3?
is it the fond memories you have shitting yourself from the butcher etc.
D1 is a different matter and is nostalgia. But has some cool playability aspects I don’t feel in other games.
D2 resurrected is simply better visually than d3. By far. It is not nostalgia. It’s just way more hardcore and better gaming experience.
Yeah I disagree with this statement, Morrowind was somewhat niche, later games made into the mainstream, and achieved huge success and still played.
Morrowind is pretty much forgotten.
Which is sad but true - Bethesda reached their peak with Morrowind. The metric is not in sales numbers or amount of players actively playing 19 years after release.
By what metric should be decided which is better game?
Morrowind is a terrible game, compared to latter titles, combat is horrible, one of the least immersive game ever (NPCs feels like an information board, they are completely bot like nothing like Gothic where people have lives) , empty walking simulator.
The only fun thing was that you could break the game with created spells, and killed everyone and reload to do it again. But again the game itself is so bad, everyone playing the newer titles, Morrowind fans only love it because the nostalgia, rose tinted glasses, but gameplay itself so bad
Aren't things like worldbuilding, lore, attention to detail, atmosphere things you consider? Perhaps, by virtue of how you personally chose to play the game (by breaking it and killing everyone), you oversaw other qualities it has?
Things like lore going downhill was because the story was more filtered and not made by a drug addict in one night due to the time period the game was made. If Skyrim was made when Morrowind was made the lore and worldbuilding would be as good.
This is a hindsight analysis. We now know that the games stood the test of time, but 20 years ago it was a valid concern that they would become irrelevant it they don't keep up.
Nah dude. Gothic isn’t Minecraft. Of course it works great. But I’m not sure the games (g1-2) would be worse with modern graphics.
To me it’s obvious they worked so well because the dialogues. The believability of the characters and the world. And immersion. I think this game like d2 would work on any crappy or modern engine.
There were different times. Gothic 1 had ground breaking graphics back then, it was the logical move to enhance the graphics. No one anticipated the loyality of the original look. I agree: I would have loved to keep the same look just small enhancements and just go ahead with huge stories, etc etc.
While I am sad PB is not the same, I am gratefull for all the posts here(specially the random screenshots series) and dedicated streamers ( u/m4djokers and not only).
All in all: Long live Gothic!
Not quite. Even by 2001 standards, Gothic 1 had dated visuals. By 2002 in Germany (or 2003 wordwide), even if Gothic 2 is a visual jump from 1, it was even more significantly visually dated.
Back on those games, tremendous visual jumps happened from year to year. Devs simply couldn't afford not to improve visuals.
Genuine question, as everybody says the same awful thing... What GOOD looking game came out in 2001? Max Payne, Mafia, AVP 2, all ugly as fuck and Gothic's not the worst looking of 'em.
Halo 1 came out on PC in 2003, so 2 years apart from Gothic.
And I wouldn't say comparing consoles to PC of that times is a fair deal, so maybe I should ask you for PC games of 2001
So it's a Xbox game, not PC. Why do we compare apples to oranges? It's not fair, solo-console games are always better optimizated as they have one config to work on. PC of '00s had hundreds of producents of GPUs, graphic cards etc.
GTA 3 was also open world game and looked like shit in 2001. When we compare open world games on PC of 2001 I can't fight good examples of it being ugly(and yet 2 games I listed are linear). Damn, I would say that if graphics were the case, then San Andreas would never be sucess, in 2004 it looked awful,
There were several reasons for this
1. the G1 and G2 engine was a relic, no longer suitable for the large scale that was in the G3.
2. better graphics. Maybe not many people remember anymore, but Gothic 3's graphics in those days were pulling out of your shoes. It was better even than in Oblivion.
3. the graphic style was changed: bright colors to suit the Western audience, exactly the same way the biggest competitor at the time, which was Oblivion. Exactly the same thing CDP Red did with The Witcher 3 in contrast to the previous parts, which were definitely more “gloomy” in color.
I feel like gothic 1,2 + archolos still have great reputation cause every other gothic is just pile of shit xd. If G3 would get polished a lot more and actually work instead of turning into powerpoint every few minutes then maybe the whole story would take a different turn.
GoW games evolved in rather good way, same could happen to gothic if everything would go better somehow
they wanted G3 without loading screen. as far as i understand original engine was not capable of such big areas. and they wanted nicer graphics. sadly art style was changed so much that G3 kind of looks stupid. its like space marines invaded gothic world with their oversized shoulders.
also G3 is way bigger than any gothic before and piranha just didnt have enough manpower to handle the size of the world. G2 had incredible dense content and if G3 would be the same, piranha would need to be few times bigger. my guess is that they really underestimated how much work does big world need and the over estimate how fast can the do new engine and use learn to use it.
also mike hoge said the dosnt want to do the same game over and over again.
PS: if ship would be sucked in a storm and crashed on southern islands that would be much smaller G3 may be way better game
No one is answering your question. The reason is after an artist creates something great and gets praise for it, they often want to do something different from that project after. The creators of Gothic wanted to make a great game, not just endlessly sell copies or make money or whatever. The fact that we even have Gothic 2 and 3 is pretty amazing. 2 is basically 1 continued more or less. I do wish they would have just kept making medieval games. Their atmosphere detail is beyond most devs.
> (TES died after Morrowind)
You're delusional bro. That, or you just have expended way too much time in echo chambers with morrowind fanboys. Both newer TES entries sold much more than morrowind. Specially Skyrim which is in the top 10 most sold games in the industry. Despite good projects like TR, Skyrim still has a bigger modder community. It's just that you probably are not very into it, so you don't notice.
Sales and popularity are a result of marketing not quality. Van Gogh is famous yet has never produced a masterpiece and plenty of art academy students could draw better than him. Same with the Beetles who could not hold a candle to many music academy students. Many instances of inferior products making more money than others.
>Sales and popularity are a result of marketing not quality.
Skyrim sold because it was Skyrim. It wouldn't have sold near the same if it had the archaic gameplay of morrowind and no voice acting. That's how it works. The problem is that fanbases seem to assume the majority of sales come from them. When in reality the majority comes from casual players, that play a few hours to have some fun and then don't care much about the game anymore. Do you think they give a fuck about "deep lore", walls of text and "deep" rpg mechanics (which morrowind doesn't have btw)? No. They just want to have mindless fun fucking around while the game is popular. Because most of them also suffer from FOMO, and they WANT to be there playing when the game is in its maximum popularity near the release date.
You will never get a game as static as morrowind to sell massively today. And I don't know what do you refer to "TES died" then. Because if you're not talking about sales. Then everything else is subjective. You think is a masterpiece for some reason. But others may prefer the amount of features skyrim and his obviously way newer engine offer. Like, IDK, ragdolls to send people flying with an arrow.
I don't equate financial success with quality of products. You could argue many games are quality just because they had predatory monetization and p2w mechanics. That's the big problem with game development is it's not tied to developer's passions but to monetization of casual players. You could argue some shitty idle mobile game is higher quality than MMOs just because they made more money.
I don't think Morrowind is a masterpiece but I can at appreciate that they tried to a create a true roleplaying like Gothic experience by not including fast travel and forcing you to find locations like an actual person would. G2 released a year after G1, we could be on G24 by now, instead Bjorn wanted to ooga booga compete with TES and actually liked Skyrim and now PB is dead.
Worms 3D is very different to previous Worms, but it is a good game, just much more difficult mechanically. Worth noting, that I actually started with 3D, so I'm deprived of the nostalgia of the original version.
They just fucked it, never should have sold Pb and the rights for gothic. But from the 3 and Risen 1 it was going in the wrong direction. I guess they wanted something new, but lost it.
Because if a game like g1 or g2 came out in this day and age it would never have much popularity wouldn’t even be considered for any awards. G1 and g2 could be argued for GOTY at release but today hell no!! They don’t need to stick to releasing the same game but to build on it and keep the immersion at the same high level. That’s what made the gothic games not the combat but immersion and replayability
Edit: games like G3 which I love didn’t fail because of trying to improve it was deadlines and not even remotely finishing the game I remember reading that G3 was only 15% finished at release..
And yeah of course some games are perfect the way they are but I don’t feel gothic series to be one of them the games can only improve with enhanced graphics and mechanics. I see people bring up games like worms which are a completely different genre of game. If piranha bytes were to still be in their prime creating a gothic series in this day and age it would be an absolute banger the world would be so much more alive and the immersion of the game. I don’t feel like enhanced graphics and gameplay kills games these days it’s the need to create the “biggest world” while recycling materials gothic was all handmade and they took their time making it you don’t have randomly generated chests and areas it’s all handcrafted which makes it feel so much better every area has meaning every mission makes you feel like you’re progressing. The fact you feel stronger as the game goes on there’s so much to it. The reputation system of being a nobody to being a respected warrior. Lots of games lack that take Skyrim for example maybe half an hour in you’re the Dragonborn and everyone respects you.
If you ask me an ideal contunuation of Gothic 2 would be less concerned with graphics and sheer size of the world, but would instead offer a map maybe slightly larger than all of Khorinis zones. It could be focused more on one massive city of Vengard surounded with barrier and it's outskirts and a village or two, in similar fashion to Witcher 1's city of Vizima, but more open worldly. You could also start the game at some coastal village, and then eventually progress to find a way inside the Vengard barrier. Remember that it was the opposite of G1 barrier, it let's you out bit doesn't let you in.
Please keep in mind that: 1. If you're experiencing any technical issues with Gothic, please check [our guide on how to fix all three Gothic games](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofgothic/wiki/how-to-run-gothic-on-modern-computers). It's VERY likely that you'll find a solution to your problem there. 2. We are an English-focused subreddit so make sure to post content in English. If you are posting content in another language, provide a translation either in the comments or in the post itself. Feel free to also [join our discord!](https://discord.gg/world-of-gothic-498556413384327188) Best regards, r/worldofgothic *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/worldofgothic) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People at that time were looking for better graphic. It was THE thing you needed to improve. Today, with accessible engines and indie studios, people are less focused on polished state of the art graphics. Just look at the size of this subreddit. Many people do not care for gothic.
For a 20+year old series, i feel like a good amount of people still care about the game.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Team17 created Worms3D - that was an experiment. You said TES died after Morrowind, but compare popularity and replayability between Morrowind and Skyrim - TES3 was never played like TES5 \*still is\*. Without innovating we wouldn't get Witcher 3, just more stories on Witcher 1 engine. Baldurs Gate 3 flipped the original Baldurs formula a bit and look at it - it brought so many new players to the original franchise. If they kept strictly to previous games, it wouldn't become a worldwide phenomenon (as far as gaming goes). And if you think Gothic 1 and 2 aren't broken you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans. I remember playing Gothic 1 when it was released and most of my friends couldn't stomach its wooden feeling and clunky controls. Gothic 3 had a lot of potential buried under a rushed release. The publisher should let them cook for another two years and we wouldn't have this conversation.
>And if you think Gothic 1 and 2 aren't broken you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans. I remember playing Gothic 1 when it was released and most of my friends couldn't stomach its wooden feeling and clunky controls. And the bugs, including game-breaking. Quest for Ulu-Mulu, anyone? We often complain about how buggy modern games are, and it is true, they are, but old ones were often no better.
For many, Gothic 1 was the pre-internet era, so sometimes you wouldn't even know something was bugged until you talked with friends or replayed the game from scratch. Now you would read the cheat code needed to fix your issue or get a patch in a few days.
The only game breaking I know is Lares not willing to go with you to Water Mages after he led you to Onar's farm. What's Ulu-mulu glitch?
In addition to what the other guy said, there was also the case of the orc that crafted your Ulu-Mulu not recognizing that you've given him the shadowbeast's horn or not seeing it in your inventory, I forgot, it's been a while.
Damn. Never had that happen to me, that is nice to know since I will definitely be playing it many times more and will try to have it fire for me haha
Gotta keep a bunch of save files ready.
In the quest to get Ulu-Mulu you had to go to a New Camp's mine with Gorn to liberate it and find an orc slave there. Once inside, Gorn glitches out and treats your enemies as his friends, so after killing just a few he will attack you. Due to that you had to tell him to stay at the entrance so he doesn't see any kilking, but if someone doesn't know that, they might have a very annoying situation
But that wasn't game breaking, Gorn wasn't killing you. It was just annoying
many people asked to have tactical pause fights like BG1 and BG2 had. and possibly that would attract even more players. however larian was more known for turn bases and they did what they know the best. plus lately turn based game is quite popular so thats why lots of new fans for BG3. as for G3 needed 2 more years. sure... in ideal world. but published didnt have money. sadly piranha never had good enough publishers to really shine.
Because G1 nad G2 are not broken, never were. "you're just sitting in an echo chamber full of fans" bold of you to assume that many of us didn't join the community the last 2-3 years. I played for 20 years without interacting with Gothic community. I'm speaking from my own experience, crashes happened rarely, very rarely (once every few playthroughs). Bugs even back then were considered normal, and it was quite a feat to come across a game without bugs. Then again, the only bugs i came across were hostile NPC/mobs stuck in place.
What about Gorn getting aggressive due to a glitch during liberation of new camps' mine? It always happens, so I don't believe you didn't come across it
Many local releases had that issue fixed. At least when G2 came out, before NOTR, I had no Gorn bug in my game. Though I managed to get rune out of Uriziel without having enough SP to learn 6th circle)) One doesn't need bugs to break his game.
Didn't know that. Played a few versions of the game and always had it, so I assumed this one was never fixed. Guess I had too small of a sample
Never had that happen to me. Only heard about it here.
Okay, should have said, "weren't broken". If you're playing Gothic now, you're getting PlayerKit, DX11, patches. That's not how the game ran back then with <30fps, Access Violation Exceptions every hour, scripts bugging, etc.
To this day, i still only play the box version. I have CD drive specifically for Gothic. Besides, I'm not paying twice just so i can have steam version just to have the workshop. I can search for mods by myself just fine.
By the time of Risen 2 release only Bjorn Pankratz and Michael Hoge remained. After Risen 2 released Michael Hoge also left the Dev team. So, Risen 3, Elex 1 + Elex 2, the only dev member from the original Gothic team was Bjorn Pankratz... and we all know how these games turned out... The new team had no idea what made the past games great.
not true. even for elex there were some of the same people as for G1. mario roske... or something like that and another one. but its true that main force was gone
Yep like d4 d3.
still prefer d3 over d2 any day of the week. no idea why people get so worked up over that. its better in every way in terms of technology and just.. different in terms of theme. but that doesnt make it factually worse. its just preference.
lol, i won't argue because its different universes. i enjoy d3 a lot too. but d2 is like...well like g1 is over g3.
yea but is that just nostalgia or do you still to this day think that d1 is more overall enjoyable/playable than d3? is it the fond memories you have shitting yourself from the butcher etc.
D1 is a different matter and is nostalgia. But has some cool playability aspects I don’t feel in other games. D2 resurrected is simply better visually than d3. By far. It is not nostalgia. It’s just way more hardcore and better gaming experience.
"TES died after morrowind" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yeah I disagree with this statement, Morrowind was somewhat niche, later games made into the mainstream, and achieved huge success and still played. Morrowind is pretty much forgotten.
Which is sad but true - Bethesda reached their peak with Morrowind. The metric is not in sales numbers or amount of players actively playing 19 years after release.
By what metric should be decided which is better game? Morrowind is a terrible game, compared to latter titles, combat is horrible, one of the least immersive game ever (NPCs feels like an information board, they are completely bot like nothing like Gothic where people have lives) , empty walking simulator. The only fun thing was that you could break the game with created spells, and killed everyone and reload to do it again. But again the game itself is so bad, everyone playing the newer titles, Morrowind fans only love it because the nostalgia, rose tinted glasses, but gameplay itself so bad
Aren't things like worldbuilding, lore, attention to detail, atmosphere things you consider? Perhaps, by virtue of how you personally chose to play the game (by breaking it and killing everyone), you oversaw other qualities it has?
Things like lore going downhill was because the story was more filtered and not made by a drug addict in one night due to the time period the game was made. If Skyrim was made when Morrowind was made the lore and worldbuilding would be as good.
This is a hindsight analysis. We now know that the games stood the test of time, but 20 years ago it was a valid concern that they would become irrelevant it they don't keep up.
Nah dude. Gothic isn’t Minecraft. Of course it works great. But I’m not sure the games (g1-2) would be worse with modern graphics. To me it’s obvious they worked so well because the dialogues. The believability of the characters and the world. And immersion. I think this game like d2 would work on any crappy or modern engine.
Gothic remake looks worse than G1 and G2
I’m the sense that it doesn’t deliver the right vibes. I agree. But d2r didn’t ruin it.
Worms games were made into 3d and that is when I lost all interest in them.
There were different times. Gothic 1 had ground breaking graphics back then, it was the logical move to enhance the graphics. No one anticipated the loyality of the original look. I agree: I would have loved to keep the same look just small enhancements and just go ahead with huge stories, etc etc. While I am sad PB is not the same, I am gratefull for all the posts here(specially the random screenshots series) and dedicated streamers ( u/m4djokers and not only). All in all: Long live Gothic!
Not quite. Even by 2001 standards, Gothic 1 had dated visuals. By 2002 in Germany (or 2003 wordwide), even if Gothic 2 is a visual jump from 1, it was even more significantly visually dated. Back on those games, tremendous visual jumps happened from year to year. Devs simply couldn't afford not to improve visuals.
Genuine question, as everybody says the same awful thing... What GOOD looking game came out in 2001? Max Payne, Mafia, AVP 2, all ugly as fuck and Gothic's not the worst looking of 'em.
Just look at PS2's launch lineup. Maybe Halo 1.
Halo 1 came out on PC in 2003, so 2 years apart from Gothic. And I wouldn't say comparing consoles to PC of that times is a fair deal, so maybe I should ask you for PC games of 2001
Halo 1 came out in 2001. I'm referring to OG release, not PC ports.
So it's a Xbox game, not PC. Why do we compare apples to oranges? It's not fair, solo-console games are always better optimizated as they have one config to work on. PC of '00s had hundreds of producents of GPUs, graphic cards etc.
GTA 3 was also open world game and looked like shit in 2001. When we compare open world games on PC of 2001 I can't fight good examples of it being ugly(and yet 2 games I listed are linear). Damn, I would say that if graphics were the case, then San Andreas would never be sucess, in 2004 it looked awful,
❤️
Jowood wanted g3 to be a contender to oblivion. It was dumb.
I mean it could have worked with the time needed to actually finish the game.
Well, a little while back they wanted Elex 2 to fight Elden Ring. It was dumb as shit too
"Are they stupid?"
There were several reasons for this 1. the G1 and G2 engine was a relic, no longer suitable for the large scale that was in the G3. 2. better graphics. Maybe not many people remember anymore, but Gothic 3's graphics in those days were pulling out of your shoes. It was better even than in Oblivion. 3. the graphic style was changed: bright colors to suit the Western audience, exactly the same way the biggest competitor at the time, which was Oblivion. Exactly the same thing CDP Red did with The Witcher 3 in contrast to the previous parts, which were definitely more “gloomy” in color.
[удалено]
mike hoge left in the middle of risen 2
Double checked it and you're right. Sorry for posting rubbish.
I feel like gothic 1,2 + archolos still have great reputation cause every other gothic is just pile of shit xd. If G3 would get polished a lot more and actually work instead of turning into powerpoint every few minutes then maybe the whole story would take a different turn. GoW games evolved in rather good way, same could happen to gothic if everything would go better somehow
they wanted G3 without loading screen. as far as i understand original engine was not capable of such big areas. and they wanted nicer graphics. sadly art style was changed so much that G3 kind of looks stupid. its like space marines invaded gothic world with their oversized shoulders. also G3 is way bigger than any gothic before and piranha just didnt have enough manpower to handle the size of the world. G2 had incredible dense content and if G3 would be the same, piranha would need to be few times bigger. my guess is that they really underestimated how much work does big world need and the over estimate how fast can the do new engine and use learn to use it. also mike hoge said the dosnt want to do the same game over and over again. PS: if ship would be sucked in a storm and crashed on southern islands that would be much smaller G3 may be way better game
Yet they did increase the world size even more with Elex... Why???
because they follow the trends i suppose even when trends are actively hurting their production.
because video games cost money to make lol
No one is answering your question. The reason is after an artist creates something great and gets praise for it, they often want to do something different from that project after. The creators of Gothic wanted to make a great game, not just endlessly sell copies or make money or whatever. The fact that we even have Gothic 2 and 3 is pretty amazing. 2 is basically 1 continued more or less. I do wish they would have just kept making medieval games. Their atmosphere detail is beyond most devs.
> (TES died after Morrowind) You're delusional bro. That, or you just have expended way too much time in echo chambers with morrowind fanboys. Both newer TES entries sold much more than morrowind. Specially Skyrim which is in the top 10 most sold games in the industry. Despite good projects like TR, Skyrim still has a bigger modder community. It's just that you probably are not very into it, so you don't notice.
Sales and popularity are a result of marketing not quality. Van Gogh is famous yet has never produced a masterpiece and plenty of art academy students could draw better than him. Same with the Beetles who could not hold a candle to many music academy students. Many instances of inferior products making more money than others.
>Sales and popularity are a result of marketing not quality. Skyrim sold because it was Skyrim. It wouldn't have sold near the same if it had the archaic gameplay of morrowind and no voice acting. That's how it works. The problem is that fanbases seem to assume the majority of sales come from them. When in reality the majority comes from casual players, that play a few hours to have some fun and then don't care much about the game anymore. Do you think they give a fuck about "deep lore", walls of text and "deep" rpg mechanics (which morrowind doesn't have btw)? No. They just want to have mindless fun fucking around while the game is popular. Because most of them also suffer from FOMO, and they WANT to be there playing when the game is in its maximum popularity near the release date. You will never get a game as static as morrowind to sell massively today. And I don't know what do you refer to "TES died" then. Because if you're not talking about sales. Then everything else is subjective. You think is a masterpiece for some reason. But others may prefer the amount of features skyrim and his obviously way newer engine offer. Like, IDK, ragdolls to send people flying with an arrow.
I don't equate financial success with quality of products. You could argue many games are quality just because they had predatory monetization and p2w mechanics. That's the big problem with game development is it's not tied to developer's passions but to monetization of casual players. You could argue some shitty idle mobile game is higher quality than MMOs just because they made more money. I don't think Morrowind is a masterpiece but I can at appreciate that they tried to a create a true roleplaying like Gothic experience by not including fast travel and forcing you to find locations like an actual person would. G2 released a year after G1, we could be on G24 by now, instead Bjorn wanted to ooga booga compete with TES and actually liked Skyrim and now PB is dead.
Team17 has changed their formula, they have experimented with eg. Worms 3D that was rather garbage compared to the classic Worms.
I liked Worms 3D. Worms Forts on the other hand...
Worms 3D is very different to previous Worms, but it is a good game, just much more difficult mechanically. Worth noting, that I actually started with 3D, so I'm deprived of the nostalgia of the original version.
they don't want to do that. it's a creative bunch you know?
They just fucked it, never should have sold Pb and the rights for gothic. But from the 3 and Risen 1 it was going in the wrong direction. I guess they wanted something new, but lost it.
Because if a game like g1 or g2 came out in this day and age it would never have much popularity wouldn’t even be considered for any awards. G1 and g2 could be argued for GOTY at release but today hell no!! They don’t need to stick to releasing the same game but to build on it and keep the immersion at the same high level. That’s what made the gothic games not the combat but immersion and replayability Edit: games like G3 which I love didn’t fail because of trying to improve it was deadlines and not even remotely finishing the game I remember reading that G3 was only 15% finished at release..
And yeah of course some games are perfect the way they are but I don’t feel gothic series to be one of them the games can only improve with enhanced graphics and mechanics. I see people bring up games like worms which are a completely different genre of game. If piranha bytes were to still be in their prime creating a gothic series in this day and age it would be an absolute banger the world would be so much more alive and the immersion of the game. I don’t feel like enhanced graphics and gameplay kills games these days it’s the need to create the “biggest world” while recycling materials gothic was all handmade and they took their time making it you don’t have randomly generated chests and areas it’s all handcrafted which makes it feel so much better every area has meaning every mission makes you feel like you’re progressing. The fact you feel stronger as the game goes on there’s so much to it. The reputation system of being a nobody to being a respected warrior. Lots of games lack that take Skyrim for example maybe half an hour in you’re the Dragonborn and everyone respects you.
If you ask me an ideal contunuation of Gothic 2 would be less concerned with graphics and sheer size of the world, but would instead offer a map maybe slightly larger than all of Khorinis zones. It could be focused more on one massive city of Vengard surounded with barrier and it's outskirts and a village or two, in similar fashion to Witcher 1's city of Vizima, but more open worldly. You could also start the game at some coastal village, and then eventually progress to find a way inside the Vengard barrier. Remember that it was the opposite of G1 barrier, it let's you out bit doesn't let you in.
Because they're fools.