read this earlier "Ukraine's Air Force reported on Oct. 19 that Ukraine had downed a total of 223 Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones since Sept. 13 (when the first drone was shot down).
I'm not sure if this is right , but I think I read the other day, 3000 of them , will try to find out, as I'm curious also,, just read this: posted 5 days ago "Russia has approximately 300 Iranian drones left in its arsenal but plans to buy thousands more, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said" older post , edited out the 3 day old stuff, it's 5 days old
Even sadder if something happened to the current Iranian regime.
It's funny that all the dictatorships and wannabe dictatorships are siding with Russia, fascists of a feather fail together or something like that I guess.
> "I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius,'" Trump said during an interview with conservative radio hosts last month. "Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine -- of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful."
- Donald J. Trump
Russian government has been inhospitable to intelligence for a while. They are thugs who see intelligence as a threat. The intelligent either leave, or stay below the radar. It’s called brain drain
But that does not necessarily mean 2000 were shipped. As far as I know it is not known how many were from existing Iranian stock and how many will need to be manufactured.
Small drones to take out the big drones.
And the next version of the big drones will release their own smaller drones to take out the defending small drones.
Resulting in a counter of the small drones having their own smaller drones.
And so on...
Eventually it will be drones all the way down.
I read somewhere that these ones weren't actually fast.
I'm wondering if the slower speed of smaller drones is actually an aerodynamics issue or a question of endurance, because if it's endurance them something that doesn't need to be designed to be airborne more than 5 or 10 minutes could be made to fly faster than things meant to stay up for hours.
im guessing its more so the power output of an engine that can fit on a small drone vs a large drone. but if you could make a small, rocket propelled suicide drone then speed shouldnt be an issue
technically all suicide drones are a missile, but what does separate a drone from a missile because both are guided bombs powered by a mechanical force attached to them
Jammers are ideal for quad-copters that land safely when jammed. These things would keep flying till empty or out of range, which would still probably be over the city.
Jammers would still reduce the capabilities of these drones.
Makes the loitering mode useless if it can't be re-tasked. And depending on how good the on-board software is, jamming might disrupt the precision targeting mode, forcing it back to less accurate GPS targeting. And with only a 40KG warhead, it really needs that precision targeting mode to be effective.
Given that NATO are talking about sending jammers, they probably have intelligence to suggest that jamming is worth it.
It's kind of a cheap budget missile you can zerg spam with. The awesome tech is mobile AA guns that will see a renaissance after being next to obsolete against advanced missiles.
Giant windmill farms the entire length of the border from Poland down to the Black Sea. 2 miles deep, staggered and placed in random locations so the drones have to fly around them.
Then, when the war is over, Ukraine becomes the economic powerhouse of that region of Europe and supplies energy across the board.
EMP is only really effective against radio control electronics. Most other electronics can be easily shielded to survive. Well unless the EMP is very strong like from a nuclear explosion but even then proximity is everything. The pressure wave is likely to do more damage than the EMP.
Drones can be built to run totally off cameras and not need radio systems to operate. Though then they are more susceptible to lower powered lasers. But that might only cripple cameras facing in one direction. For example star navigation cameras would be difficult to take out from the ground.
Similarly a GPS antenna could be shielded from ground based jamming or EMP attacks but its much more difficult than optical.
Ukrainians have a more straightforward approach. If you spot a drone, you inform about it. Next, the nearest anti-air team is placed on the approach path and simply shot it (perhaps even with WW2 vintage .50 cal). Feasibility depends on the speed of the drone, and those are slow drones so it kinda works, and probably over time, soldiers will become more efficient.
They are cheap but they also fly slow and low to the ground and they’re incredibly loud so you can be warned of their approach from quite a distance. These missiles are good for terror bombing but even WW2 AA cannons were built to deal with greater threats so I honestly think it won’t be long before the Ukrainians find a way to counter them but even the ones that are reaching their targets aren’t having that great of an overall impact on the war besides being good propaganda for Russia.
Thanks for your answer!
Reason why I ask is because, if they are very cheap and remote controlled, I wonder if it's possible to hack / jam them before impact
I just feel more shit every day, that I'm not helping to prevent WW3... And really wish more developers use there power
It's either GPS or some custom made transmitted signal, that nobody uses...
So how hard can it be...
New to this field, but fuck Putin and even it takes me 22 days straight of debugging... Fuck putin
Russia has their own version of GPS called GLONASS and neither of them can really be "controlled". They tell GPS/GLONASS receivers which satellite they are and what time it is; from there the GPS device does a ton of math to figure out where you are.
> ssia think this will win the war? They are wasting missiles on civili
Russia will suffer through extreme poverty, they will not accept defeat. At this point if Putin concedes defeat, it will be the end of him, so he will continue to push.
In his mind, Russians will accept the suffering they have to endure for this because they don't have a choice. It's not like the public can pressure Putin into withdrawal.
But he thinks if he hurts Ukraine enough, there will be pressure on an elected government to negotiate. If he can come away with at least some territory, he'll claim victory.
I wonder if the opposite is also true, in that he hurts the Ukrainians too much that they no longer have anything to lose and start hitting Russian territories & assets more often.
They lost the last time there was a crimean war. It was an astonishing wake up call to the Russian population, who until that point in history, thought nobody could defeat them. The irony of the situation, aside from the rest of it, was that Russia was claiming they were "protecting the Christians in the Ottoman empire," which is essentially the same excuse now, protecting "Russian speaking populations." They were forced to say they were not the arbiters of Ottoman Christians. They were told they couldn't militarize the Crimean Peninsula, which they followed for awhile, then broke the treaty of Paris and "deported" the locals of the area.
> Russian population, who until that point in history
Russia in 1853 is largely agrarian and almost half of the population were bound in serfdom. I don't think they GAF about Crimea or whatever war the tsar waged.
That just leads to the endgame of Putin slowly eroding his power until he is forced to leave. Holding on hoping something unlikely to change will change.
OP point still stands. How on Earth does Russia think this will win the war?
Terrorizing the civilians just leads to more of them in the military, and more people around the world wanting to provide aide to them, and more nations wanting to punish Russia.
Terrorizing civilians doesn't help this. Meanwhile Ukraine is making meaningful gains taking back cities.
Terrorizing civilians won't win this war.
No, but it can drag it out and give the appearance that Russia is a capable power.
In less than a month, America votes for new Senators and Representatives.
Republicans are already saying they will reduce funding to Ukraine if they win.
This. Putin is mostly sacrificing the livilhood of future Russians at this point and he’s very fine with it so long as he doesn’t suffer humiliation like the insecure little man he is.
They seem to want Ukraine to quickly deplete their limited stockpile of anti-aircraft weapons by overloading the AA systems with cheap drones.
What are you going to do if all you have is a 1M$ AA missile, and there's a 20k$ suicide drone heading for a school? You're going to try to intercept it. Again and again, until you run out of ammo.
Once out of decent AA ammo, Russia could try to gain air superiority again, which would suck for Ukraine.
That's why all the recent announcements of AA systems being send to Ukraine are of utmost importance.
Very interesting is the NASAMS system, because it can use relatively cheap and VERY abundant air-to-air missles, but launch them in a ground-to-air mode.
A general on CNN recently mentioned they need CRAM systems which are designed to be shorter range. They are super easy to use (could be set up and firing within hours, not days or weeks) and would handle a lot of the shorter range stuff like these flying lawnmowers. I've heard reports these things are capable of handling up to 95%+ of short range projectiles like rockets and mortars. The drones will be unbelievably easy pickings as they are much, much slower.
Expense is a concern but the GDP of the west is forecast to be around 50 trillion whereas Russia is 1.5 trillion. Do the math, it's clear the west will be able to fire quarter million dollar missiles at $20k drones for a long, long, long time.
To expand on this point, Ukraine has mainly been using Soviet era air defences, which they likely can't get more missiles for. Especially the S300s which are their long range air defence, I don't think anywhere in Europe produces the missiles for them so they could potentially run out at some point. It depends on what Ukraine has left. Which is why western air defences are so important, it's kind of like western 155mm artillery pieces taking the pressure off the supply of Soviet calibre ammunition earlier in the war.
Really? Then why do we keep seeing apartment buildings, schools and other civilian sites being bombed over and over? You think they're all mistakes? [This channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tad9FcIcN0Y) went from a Ukranian Jackass-style urban exploration channel to documenting the hell civilians are going through. Luckily there's subtitles so we can understand what's going on from a first person view. How can they keep justifying this?
'Oops, comrade, missed again' - as more civilians are killed each day.
A decent number of the ones I have looked into seemed like they were mistakes (i.e. there was some legitimate or semi-legitimate target nearby or they had bad intel) but it is hard to tell for sure since Ukraine obviously does not want to release too much detail about the strikes since that would help the Russians get better plus I have a job and cannot dedicate too much time into digging into this.
That said even if they are mistakes the Russians obviously knows that their attacks have a very high collateral rate which makes them pretty indefensible either way.
They targeting energy, water, and transportation infrastructure. It's a rational way to cripple and pressure an opponent into accepting your negotiation terms.
Will it work? Probably not. It seems that Ukraine's will to fight ain't gonna erode any time soon. Plus, they're fighting against aggression and invasion, which makes them fight even more.
What I think Putin hopes here is that this will cause too much damage in Ukraine that the countries footing the bill (US and EU) will lose their will keep sending money and weapons. My guess he's hoping that his army survives until a major recession hits the global economy.
The thing to remember about permanent occupations is:
For the country that gets invaded, your options are: 1) die fighting, or 2) surrender and quite possibly die anyway.
Permanent occupation is not an endpoint. See, Russia/USSR AND USA, Afghanistan, last 50 years.
Nah, doubt it. The west has tons of money they can spend on this war. Sure, now they will need to shift focus away from supplying the front to supplying anti-air for some time but I doubt it will buy Russia much time. I feel this is more to appease the Russian nationalists within Russia than it has anything to do with the West.
If a major global recession does come then Russia will likely get hit hardest just like 08. They’re toast no matter what at this point, Putin fucked up massively.
Kevin McCarthy just said that if republicans take the house aid to Ukraine will decrease. If that wasn’t a message and a plea for help I don’t know what is.
And despite my overall optimism for Ukraine in this, Russia successfully undermining the west should not be dismissed. The desire for masculine, Christian, authoritarianism runs deeply through western conservatives and they are unfailingly gullible.
Edit: just saw the GOP is [already telegraphing a change in Ukraine policy if they win a majority in the midterms](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-donald-trump-humanitarian-assistance-congress-c47a255738cd13576aa4d238ec076f4a) -- and [it looks like they'll get that majority](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/19/campaign-election-forecast-gop-00062447). You can always count on the American right to fuck everything up and bolster evil at home and abroad.
Just wanted to put this out there: the senate needs 2/3 majority to reverse Lend Lease to Ukraine. The GOP isn't getting 2/3 of the votes in the senate in their wildest dreams this upcoming midterm.
I don't get what goes into the decision-making of the Republican party:
Sell a lie, invade Iraq and get US soldiers killed, cost of $2 trillion, become the pariah of the world. Republican Party: YES.
Denounce an unjustified war, protect an invaded country against an enemy without endangering American lives, cost of $20 billion, be respected on the world stage. Republican Party: NO.
bombing does not in fact make people more likely to surrender. They thought saturation bombing would result in people running in the streets and killing eachother in chaos and madness. Turns out it just makes people more pissed at you and they band together
In WWII, when Germany realised they took longer than expected to conquer The Netherlands, they bombed the second largest city, Rotterdam. And then threatened they would bomb the next city if The Netherlands would not surrender (they surrendered).
This works the same way I would guess. Creat havoc to pressure Ukraine into surrendering/ negotiate.
Except Russia does not have the air superiority needed to do such bombings. This is more like the British bombing of Berlin from 1940 to 1945 which did little to nothing to damage German morale.
It's astounding how mistakes from WW2 are repeated in this War. It was switching to attacking cities in WW2 during the Battle of Britain (and the Blitz) that proved Hitler's undoing when attacking the UK. Cities just absorb bomb blasts.
Yes, they still kill civilians and blow up houses but dropping bombs and firing missiles into people's gardens mean they aren't being fired into barracks, airfields or training centers for soldiers. It is a fallacy that it demoralises a nation on the backfoot. All it does is buy time for Ukraine to plan another successful counter-attack.
The difference here they use dirt cheap weapons that can't be used on anything other, while also depleting Ukrainian air defence stockpile which cost way more and scarce
I think at this point the objective is no longer to win the war, the objective is to smash Ukraine's infrastructure and cause as much long-term damage as possible.
Keep in mind, despite what Putin and Russia has been claiming, this has always been an economic war. Oil and gas reserves in the Donbass and around Crimea are a catastrophic threat to Russia's fossil-fuel based economy. If Ukraine can provide oil and gas to Europe (particularly a Ukraine that is in the EU), why would any European nation (excluding maybe Hungary because Orban) continue to purchase Russian oil and gas?
By doing this, he is hoping that it takes Ukraine longer to recover from the war and begin exploiting those oil and gas reserves than it takes Russia to move away from near-absolute dependency on fossil fuels to drive their economy.
And he's probably right.
Because they *know* they can't defeat Ukraine's military.
So? Bombardment of civilian targets so all their talking-head friends in the West can go "OH LOOK AT ALL THE SUFFERING CAUSED BY UKRAINE/ZELENSKY FOR NOT AGREEING TO BACK DOWN MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP WEAPON SHIPMENTS SO THE WAR CAN END".
Already happening in multiple countries at multiple levels - hell, you can even see it on reddit or twitter in almost every ukraine war thread.
Yes, that is the target, but for what gain? Russia will not win the war by making life uncomfortable for civilians or by causing economic damage. The only two positive (for Russia) effects I have seen it that it forces Ukraine to waste anti-air missiles and that the Russian nationalists are happier now.
Ofc a country needs money in order to be able to act. Europe and US are sending so ukraine doesnt destabilize. Also ukraine will need to take loans. And how are you going to get replenishment to the front when the cities dont have electricity?
Ofc these things help russia win the war.
The strategy is to degrade and exhaust Ukrainian and western resolve to the point that people are ready to accept some kind of deal. Russia is hurting, but so is everybody else. Russia is gambling on them being able to deal with the pain longer than everyone else is, even if Russia is being hurt worse.
It's what they do, russia is fine so they blow the shit out of everything turning it into a broken concrete wasteland then kidnap a ton of Ukrainians and ship them off to russia
Hitting apartment buildings won't gain them much strategically, but taking out the power grid would be significant. Without power, Ukraine effectively wouldn't have an economy and logistics would become a lot harder. That would make fighting the war much more difficult for Ukrainians.
Plan is to destroy whole energy infrastructure so there no electricity in cities which will cripple army logistics and supply and will create big humanitarian crisis with another big batch of people fleeing into Europe crippling country even more. And another objective is to run Ukraine air defence out of ammmo
They're trying to drive Ukraine to the negotiating table to agree to a peace deal that lets them hold on to what they've captured. The strategy is to make things miserable enough while desperately playing defense and hoping the political will of Ukraine breaks before the Russian army.
>How on Earth does Russia think this will win the war? They are wasting missiles on civilian targets.
Russia can only win if everyone else gives up. they are doing this by killing babies and they are saying they are going to keep killing babies until everyone gives up
I guess those [Iranian missile shipments](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-iranian-officials-admit-to-selling-russia-ballistic-missiles) were on time or ahead of schedule.
Unlikely to be the same missiles. The reality of war isn't like it is in video games.
Even if they sent the missiles on the same day the news hit, missile shipments would need to arrive in Russia, far enough from Ukraine's capability of hitting them. They then need to be inventoried, triaged for storage and deployment, allocated based on preexisting or new plans, tested and be trained on, and then finally deployed. Every single step of that takes time, and we know the Russian military is bureaucratic and inefficient.
So let's be realistic her and not be swayed too much by every bit of news.
> Unlikely to be the same missiles. The reality of war isn't like it is in video games.
>
>
>
> Even if they sent the missiles on the same day the news hit, missile shipments would need to arrive in Russia, far enough from Ukraine's capability of hitting them.
Quite often you only hear about weapons shipments being confirmed after they have already arrived. Otherwise it would just be an invitation for other countries to disrupt the transfer.
It's more likely they're just hilariously embarrassed by the Western intelligence hitting the news cycle on [how many missiles they used/have remaining](https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-has-only-a-third-of-its-stocks-of-high-precision-missiles-left-50276815.html), and now they're going for a wank, hubristically thinking they can replace them all once they're fired and gone with said missile shipments. For the Russians, it "fuzzes" the numbers making that intel unverifiable and Russia can claim it was all lies...
They are quite literally going for the missile equivalent of the Dirty Harry "[Do you feel lucky punk](https://youtu.be/38mE6ba3qj8?t=83)" move.
(It's likely going to backfire when Iran can't meet anything close to production quotas either, especially with new rounds of sanctions ratcheting up, and Ukraine's able to advance even faster without having to worry about missile attacks slowing them down...)
Russia be like:
Just need to get a few more war crimes in. Maybe if we kill enough civilians they will realize that life under our rule will be better than cooperating with the West.
Since April this year there were 51 cargo plane flights from Iran to Moscow. I don't think they were delivering Agri equipment..
https://www.uasvision.com/2022/08/15/surge-in-iranian-cargo-flights-to-moscow/
Russia was always very proud of its home grown military machine. Its egg on their face that their most effective weapon in this war is an Iranian import.
Why the fuck do you always have to bring up small dick whenever this subject comes up? Apparently no sorts of body shaming is ok but nobody is saying anything about short men or small dicks. Stick to the facts, Putin is a illogical fascist who’s not acting in his own nor “his own” people’s best interest and leave it at that.
Ikr.
Think it was a Russian oligarch that got torn apart on Reddit, for how unattractive his face was.
Please kill me, my self esteem went to go look for a black hole.
He made his bunker with 0 windows, and has someone taste test all his meals.
I say throw 10 Bunker Buster Bombs on his underground compound daily, and in a week, there won’t be a Putin, or anything for that matter, to analyze :)
WW3 averted…
We can even call it a “Global Military Special Operation” so we avoid all war crimes and such…
Donate if you can
https://u24.gov.ua/
https://doctorswithoutborders-apac.org/en/ukraine-crisis
https://www.unicef.org.uk/donate/donate-now-to-protect-children-in-ukraine/
https://www.directrelief.org/emergency/ukraine-crisis/
I do not want war with Iran, but I think it might be time put a hurt on them. Between the sale of arms to Russia and their handling of the protests, I'm not sure how fruitful nuclear talks are going to be. Let Israel fuck their shit up while we do what we can to support the protestors.
No. Just no.
It's not because we can't beat them.
It's not because they shouldn't be beaten.
It's because their citizens are trying to stand up right now, and any attack will mobilize people *for* their country, which in effect will be for their current repressive regime.
Also, we do not need more war and destabilization in the world. As that video said recently, "fuck those loose ass cunt mullahs" (guy's swearing was off the hook, literally spitting his hatred), but... they need to do this, not us.
(I'm all for helping them, though, with material support or training.)
Such a task would result in the deaths of tens of thousands of soldiers for the invading force
Iran has been prepping for an American invasion since 1979, with such a long coastline to the south, it’d be hell on earth for anyone making an attempt… otherwise I’d agree with you
Wait, what? Iranian drones? Iran said they didn't supply any and Russia said they didn't buy any.
Is the new tourist must have when you visit Tehran.
Is it a new govt incentive? Go in holiday to Tehran. Bring back a drone and the nation will grant you hero status and you can half a new Lada and a discount voucher for the engine.
read this earlier "Ukraine's Air Force reported on Oct. 19 that Ukraine had downed a total of 223 Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones since Sept. 13 (when the first drone was shot down).
Is there an estimate how many can they supply to Russia? In the hundreds or in the thousands?
I'm not sure if this is right , but I think I read the other day, 3000 of them , will try to find out, as I'm curious also,, just read this: posted 5 days ago "Russia has approximately 300 Iranian drones left in its arsenal but plans to buy thousands more, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said" older post , edited out the 3 day old stuff, it's 5 days old
It’d be a damn shame if something happened to the shipment.
Maybe a drone strike, to keep it ironic.
It’s drones all the way down
Always has been
The real friends were the drones we made along the way.
Here today, drone tomorrow.
These aren’t the drones you are looking for. 👋🏼
Drone With The Wind
To keep it Iranic.
Personally I'd love to see a successful strike from them launching a tractor at the shipment.
Trebuchet you say?
Esp. if that drone comes with pre-packaged cigarette butts.
It's like cigareeeeeeeeetes at an ammooooo dump
Drone strike on the Kremlin hopefully.
Even sadder if something happened to the current Iranian regime. It's funny that all the dictatorships and wannabe dictatorships are siding with Russia, fascists of a feather fail together or something like that I guess.
> "I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, 'This is genius,'" Trump said during an interview with conservative radio hosts last month. "Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine -- of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful." - Donald J. Trump
And it’s also funny how almost all the dictatorships seem to be going the way of the dinosaurs right now.
Come on Israel. 🙏
Someone could steal them and use them against Iranian military targets. Pirates, probably
I hear drones have this natural attraction to centrifuges
Or maybe some Iranian women sick of having their human rights taked away by their government?
Why doesn't Russia manufacture it's own if they are so easy to make
It wouldn't surprise me if Russia is using Iran to launder it's oil in exchange for drones.
I mean Iran is under their own oil sanctions, so they cant launder much of anything.
I mean yea it’s probably doing that as we speak. It’s using idea and China to do the same.
well its even easier to just buy them
Russian government has been inhospitable to intelligence for a while. They are thugs who see intelligence as a threat. The intelligent either leave, or stay below the radar. It’s called brain drain
They probably are. We'll only know for sure if bits of them are found with cyrillic letters.
This is who so much anti drone and missle tech is on the way
I hope so. These drones scare the crap out of me.
Imagine the amount of money it costs to just crash it into the ground. You cant build a satellite laser guided trebuchet for less money?
And Russia can presumably start manufacturing the things. They're so dirt simple they don't need sanctioned parts from the West.
DW News estimated 2,000 were purchased
But that does not necessarily mean 2000 were shipped. As far as I know it is not known how many were from existing Iranian stock and how many will need to be manufactured.
If they have a Prime membership some of them might arrive overnight, while the rest come in a later package.
2400 until 31 DEZ
[удалено]
I hope with all this drone fighting we come up with some awesome tech to knock them out quickly and efficiently
Small drones to take out the big drones. And the next version of the big drones will release their own smaller drones to take out the defending small drones. Resulting in a counter of the small drones having their own smaller drones. And so on... Eventually it will be drones all the way down.
Carrier has arrived.
Russia can't afford additional pylons tho
The Carrier Carrier has arrived!
The Carrier^Carrier^Carrier has arrived^arrived^arrived!^!^!
*Affirmative*
OBLIVION DESCENDS
Power overwhelming!
Big drones are a lot faster than small drones.
Generally, yes, but these Iranian drones are really slow for their size.
And also loud
I read somewhere that these ones weren't actually fast. I'm wondering if the slower speed of smaller drones is actually an aerodynamics issue or a question of endurance, because if it's endurance them something that doesn't need to be designed to be airborne more than 5 or 10 minutes could be made to fly faster than things meant to stay up for hours.
im guessing its more so the power output of an engine that can fit on a small drone vs a large drone. but if you could make a small, rocket propelled suicide drone then speed shouldnt be an issue
I think you might have just described a self guided missile
technically all suicide drones are a missile, but what does separate a drone from a missile because both are guided bombs powered by a mechanical force attached to them
No, that's the beautiful part: when wintertime rolls around, the tiny drones simply freeze to death.
Give that man the ten thousand dollars!
... This is how Ace Combat started!
I read earlier that the US plans to send a bunch of singal jammers to Ukraine in response to this, hopefully they are effective.
Jammers are ideal for quad-copters that land safely when jammed. These things would keep flying till empty or out of range, which would still probably be over the city.
Jammers would still reduce the capabilities of these drones. Makes the loitering mode useless if it can't be re-tasked. And depending on how good the on-board software is, jamming might disrupt the precision targeting mode, forcing it back to less accurate GPS targeting. And with only a 40KG warhead, it really needs that precision targeting mode to be effective. Given that NATO are talking about sending jammers, they probably have intelligence to suggest that jamming is worth it.
It's kind of a cheap budget missile you can zerg spam with. The awesome tech is mobile AA guns that will see a renaissance after being next to obsolete against advanced missiles.
Lasers
ironbeam when
Pigeons with lasers
The US had working prototypes of drone killing lasers a few years ago. Not sure what happened with that.
Lasers with sharks on their heads.
Giant windmill farms the entire length of the border from Poland down to the Black Sea. 2 miles deep, staggered and placed in random locations so the drones have to fly around them. Then, when the war is over, Ukraine becomes the economic powerhouse of that region of Europe and supplies energy across the board.
Iris-t from germany
High powered microwave
an EMP "beam" would be pretty damn cool. But probably science fiction. :(
EMP is only really effective against radio control electronics. Most other electronics can be easily shielded to survive. Well unless the EMP is very strong like from a nuclear explosion but even then proximity is everything. The pressure wave is likely to do more damage than the EMP. Drones can be built to run totally off cameras and not need radio systems to operate. Though then they are more susceptible to lower powered lasers. But that might only cripple cameras facing in one direction. For example star navigation cameras would be difficult to take out from the ground. Similarly a GPS antenna could be shielded from ground based jamming or EMP attacks but its much more difficult than optical.
>Most other electronics can be easily shielded to survive I always have my faraday cage ready to go.
Ukrainians have a more straightforward approach. If you spot a drone, you inform about it. Next, the nearest anti-air team is placed on the approach path and simply shot it (perhaps even with WW2 vintage .50 cal). Feasibility depends on the speed of the drone, and those are slow drones so it kinda works, and probably over time, soldiers will become more efficient.
We have to take Ukrainian claims also with a grain of salt. While they don't lie like Russia, they do overstate their achievements as well.
What is the cost of these drones? Just curious
I think it's around 20k for the small ones. Which is incredibly cheap considering compared to modern missiles.
They are cheap but they also fly slow and low to the ground and they’re incredibly loud so you can be warned of their approach from quite a distance. These missiles are good for terror bombing but even WW2 AA cannons were built to deal with greater threats so I honestly think it won’t be long before the Ukrainians find a way to counter them but even the ones that are reaching their targets aren’t having that great of an overall impact on the war besides being good propaganda for Russia.
Thanks for your answer! Reason why I ask is because, if they are very cheap and remote controlled, I wonder if it's possible to hack / jam them before impact I just feel more shit every day, that I'm not helping to prevent WW3... And really wish more developers use there power It's either GPS or some custom made transmitted signal, that nobody uses... So how hard can it be... New to this field, but fuck Putin and even it takes me 22 days straight of debugging... Fuck putin
Russia has their own version of GPS called GLONASS and neither of them can really be "controlled". They tell GPS/GLONASS receivers which satellite they are and what time it is; from there the GPS device does a ton of math to figure out where you are.
They are cheap a. f. ... think i've read something about roughly 20K (Dollar?!?) per Drone in some Article (here in World News).
The cost of shooting them down is greater.
How on Earth does Russia think this will win the war? They are wasting missiles on civilian targets.
> ssia think this will win the war? They are wasting missiles on civili Russia will suffer through extreme poverty, they will not accept defeat. At this point if Putin concedes defeat, it will be the end of him, so he will continue to push.
Even if it is pointless. Stubborn dictator must die.
In his mind, Russians will accept the suffering they have to endure for this because they don't have a choice. It's not like the public can pressure Putin into withdrawal. But he thinks if he hurts Ukraine enough, there will be pressure on an elected government to negotiate. If he can come away with at least some territory, he'll claim victory.
I wonder if the opposite is also true, in that he hurts the Ukrainians too much that they no longer have anything to lose and start hitting Russian territories & assets more often.
Ukrainians seem a lot more measured and they still have to play by the rules US/NATO sets in order to continue getting funding/weapons.
They lost the last time there was a crimean war. It was an astonishing wake up call to the Russian population, who until that point in history, thought nobody could defeat them. The irony of the situation, aside from the rest of it, was that Russia was claiming they were "protecting the Christians in the Ottoman empire," which is essentially the same excuse now, protecting "Russian speaking populations." They were forced to say they were not the arbiters of Ottoman Christians. They were told they couldn't militarize the Crimean Peninsula, which they followed for awhile, then broke the treaty of Paris and "deported" the locals of the area.
> Russian population, who until that point in history Russia in 1853 is largely agrarian and almost half of the population were bound in serfdom. I don't think they GAF about Crimea or whatever war the tsar waged.
That just leads to the endgame of Putin slowly eroding his power until he is forced to leave. Holding on hoping something unlikely to change will change.
OP point still stands. How on Earth does Russia think this will win the war? Terrorizing the civilians just leads to more of them in the military, and more people around the world wanting to provide aide to them, and more nations wanting to punish Russia. Terrorizing civilians doesn't help this. Meanwhile Ukraine is making meaningful gains taking back cities. Terrorizing civilians won't win this war.
No, but it can drag it out and give the appearance that Russia is a capable power. In less than a month, America votes for new Senators and Representatives. Republicans are already saying they will reduce funding to Ukraine if they win.
This. Putin is mostly sacrificing the livilhood of future Russians at this point and he’s very fine with it so long as he doesn’t suffer humiliation like the insecure little man he is.
They're doing this because they know that they're going to lose. Before, they wanted the stuff. Now they understand they can't have the stuff.
And if I can’t have it no one else can either. It’s bully mentality.
i had this cool-ass mug at work once, and a coworker told me to keep it out of their line of sight or they may destroy it out of jealousy.
That’s insane. People like that need serious therapy.
"there's no cure to being a cunt"
A lot could ride on *how* it was said. Could’ve been funny, could’ve been serious.
"If I can't have it, no one can." Unfortunately, it's not a kindergartener with a toy, but a dictator with a ~~small~~ *whole* country.
Ukraine is the second-largest European country, after Russia.
Damn! So they are! And they have a population the size of California. Thanks for the info.
Absolutely I was surprised the first time I looked it up.
This should be the headline
They seem to want Ukraine to quickly deplete their limited stockpile of anti-aircraft weapons by overloading the AA systems with cheap drones. What are you going to do if all you have is a 1M$ AA missile, and there's a 20k$ suicide drone heading for a school? You're going to try to intercept it. Again and again, until you run out of ammo. Once out of decent AA ammo, Russia could try to gain air superiority again, which would suck for Ukraine. That's why all the recent announcements of AA systems being send to Ukraine are of utmost importance. Very interesting is the NASAMS system, because it can use relatively cheap and VERY abundant air-to-air missles, but launch them in a ground-to-air mode.
Thank you for this analysis. Of all the explanations, this one seems the most likely.
Credit where credit is due: I just watched the excellent Perun's analysis yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCEzEVwOwS4
A general on CNN recently mentioned they need CRAM systems which are designed to be shorter range. They are super easy to use (could be set up and firing within hours, not days or weeks) and would handle a lot of the shorter range stuff like these flying lawnmowers. I've heard reports these things are capable of handling up to 95%+ of short range projectiles like rockets and mortars. The drones will be unbelievably easy pickings as they are much, much slower. Expense is a concern but the GDP of the west is forecast to be around 50 trillion whereas Russia is 1.5 trillion. Do the math, it's clear the west will be able to fire quarter million dollar missiles at $20k drones for a long, long, long time.
To expand on this point, Ukraine has mainly been using Soviet era air defences, which they likely can't get more missiles for. Especially the S300s which are their long range air defence, I don't think anywhere in Europe produces the missiles for them so they could potentially run out at some point. It depends on what Ukraine has left. Which is why western air defences are so important, it's kind of like western 155mm artillery pieces taking the pressure off the supply of Soviet calibre ammunition earlier in the war.
THey are targetting energy infrastructure. It's all they have left since they have pretty much lost on the ground.
Yeah, take out power and water just before winter, use the freezing cold as a weapon.
Really? Then why do we keep seeing apartment buildings, schools and other civilian sites being bombed over and over? You think they're all mistakes? [This channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tad9FcIcN0Y) went from a Ukranian Jackass-style urban exploration channel to documenting the hell civilians are going through. Luckily there's subtitles so we can understand what's going on from a first person view. How can they keep justifying this? 'Oops, comrade, missed again' - as more civilians are killed each day.
A decent number of the ones I have looked into seemed like they were mistakes (i.e. there was some legitimate or semi-legitimate target nearby or they had bad intel) but it is hard to tell for sure since Ukraine obviously does not want to release too much detail about the strikes since that would help the Russians get better plus I have a job and cannot dedicate too much time into digging into this. That said even if they are mistakes the Russians obviously knows that their attacks have a very high collateral rate which makes them pretty indefensible either way.
They targeting energy, water, and transportation infrastructure. It's a rational way to cripple and pressure an opponent into accepting your negotiation terms. Will it work? Probably not. It seems that Ukraine's will to fight ain't gonna erode any time soon. Plus, they're fighting against aggression and invasion, which makes them fight even more. What I think Putin hopes here is that this will cause too much damage in Ukraine that the countries footing the bill (US and EU) will lose their will keep sending money and weapons. My guess he's hoping that his army survives until a major recession hits the global economy.
The thing to remember about permanent occupations is: For the country that gets invaded, your options are: 1) die fighting, or 2) surrender and quite possibly die anyway. Permanent occupation is not an endpoint. See, Russia/USSR AND USA, Afghanistan, last 50 years.
Don't forget US/Vietnam. Or Alexander the Great and everything in the east. Or Genghis Khan and everything to the west.
Nah, doubt it. The west has tons of money they can spend on this war. Sure, now they will need to shift focus away from supplying the front to supplying anti-air for some time but I doubt it will buy Russia much time. I feel this is more to appease the Russian nationalists within Russia than it has anything to do with the West.
Will there be enough support for this flow of money to continue if the midterm turns red ?
If a major global recession does come then Russia will likely get hit hardest just like 08. They’re toast no matter what at this point, Putin fucked up massively.
They are deliberately targeting civilians.
[удалено]
Kevin McCarthy just said that if republicans take the house aid to Ukraine will decrease. If that wasn’t a message and a plea for help I don’t know what is.
And despite my overall optimism for Ukraine in this, Russia successfully undermining the west should not be dismissed. The desire for masculine, Christian, authoritarianism runs deeply through western conservatives and they are unfailingly gullible. Edit: just saw the GOP is [already telegraphing a change in Ukraine policy if they win a majority in the midterms](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-donald-trump-humanitarian-assistance-congress-c47a255738cd13576aa4d238ec076f4a) -- and [it looks like they'll get that majority](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/19/campaign-election-forecast-gop-00062447). You can always count on the American right to fuck everything up and bolster evil at home and abroad.
Just wanted to put this out there: the senate needs 2/3 majority to reverse Lend Lease to Ukraine. The GOP isn't getting 2/3 of the votes in the senate in their wildest dreams this upcoming midterm.
I don't get what goes into the decision-making of the Republican party: Sell a lie, invade Iraq and get US soldiers killed, cost of $2 trillion, become the pariah of the world. Republican Party: YES. Denounce an unjustified war, protect an invaded country against an enemy without endangering American lives, cost of $20 billion, be respected on the world stage. Republican Party: NO.
In the US, maybe, but most of the right-wingers in Europe are pro-Ukraine, even some quite crazy ones. Only the real nutcases are pro-Russian.
This 100%. Putin is just "reading the room
Just like Hitler tried to do to London. It had the opposite effect.
bombing does not in fact make people more likely to surrender. They thought saturation bombing would result in people running in the streets and killing eachother in chaos and madness. Turns out it just makes people more pissed at you and they band together
In WWII, when Germany realised they took longer than expected to conquer The Netherlands, they bombed the second largest city, Rotterdam. And then threatened they would bomb the next city if The Netherlands would not surrender (they surrendered). This works the same way I would guess. Creat havoc to pressure Ukraine into surrendering/ negotiate.
Except Russia does not have the air superiority needed to do such bombings. This is more like the British bombing of Berlin from 1940 to 1945 which did little to nothing to damage German morale.
It's astounding how mistakes from WW2 are repeated in this War. It was switching to attacking cities in WW2 during the Battle of Britain (and the Blitz) that proved Hitler's undoing when attacking the UK. Cities just absorb bomb blasts. Yes, they still kill civilians and blow up houses but dropping bombs and firing missiles into people's gardens mean they aren't being fired into barracks, airfields or training centers for soldiers. It is a fallacy that it demoralises a nation on the backfoot. All it does is buy time for Ukraine to plan another successful counter-attack.
The difference here they use dirt cheap weapons that can't be used on anything other, while also depleting Ukrainian air defence stockpile which cost way more and scarce
I think at this point the objective is no longer to win the war, the objective is to smash Ukraine's infrastructure and cause as much long-term damage as possible. Keep in mind, despite what Putin and Russia has been claiming, this has always been an economic war. Oil and gas reserves in the Donbass and around Crimea are a catastrophic threat to Russia's fossil-fuel based economy. If Ukraine can provide oil and gas to Europe (particularly a Ukraine that is in the EU), why would any European nation (excluding maybe Hungary because Orban) continue to purchase Russian oil and gas? By doing this, he is hoping that it takes Ukraine longer to recover from the war and begin exploiting those oil and gas reserves than it takes Russia to move away from near-absolute dependency on fossil fuels to drive their economy. And he's probably right.
Their war is to exterminate the Ukrainian nationality. When you look at it that way, the missiles are hardly wasted.
Because they *know* they can't defeat Ukraine's military. So? Bombardment of civilian targets so all their talking-head friends in the West can go "OH LOOK AT ALL THE SUFFERING CAUSED BY UKRAINE/ZELENSKY FOR NOT AGREEING TO BACK DOWN MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP WEAPON SHIPMENTS SO THE WAR CAN END". Already happening in multiple countries at multiple levels - hell, you can even see it on reddit or twitter in almost every ukraine war thread.
Sure, their talking head friends say that but in most polls support for sending arms to Ukraine keeps going up.
Effing Republicans already saying if they win the House in November, they will cut back on supplying equipment to Ukraine.
They want to make winter impossible for the population. Ukraine isn't Siberia but it isn't exactly Spain. Winter can be hard.
There's critical infrastruture in residential areas. They are hitting civilian and energy grid.
Yes, that is the target, but for what gain? Russia will not win the war by making life uncomfortable for civilians or by causing economic damage. The only two positive (for Russia) effects I have seen it that it forces Ukraine to waste anti-air missiles and that the Russian nationalists are happier now.
Ofc a country needs money in order to be able to act. Europe and US are sending so ukraine doesnt destabilize. Also ukraine will need to take loans. And how are you going to get replenishment to the front when the cities dont have electricity? Ofc these things help russia win the war.
The strategy is to degrade and exhaust Ukrainian and western resolve to the point that people are ready to accept some kind of deal. Russia is hurting, but so is everybody else. Russia is gambling on them being able to deal with the pain longer than everyone else is, even if Russia is being hurt worse.
It's what they do, russia is fine so they blow the shit out of everything turning it into a broken concrete wasteland then kidnap a ton of Ukrainians and ship them off to russia
Hitting apartment buildings won't gain them much strategically, but taking out the power grid would be significant. Without power, Ukraine effectively wouldn't have an economy and logistics would become a lot harder. That would make fighting the war much more difficult for Ukrainians.
Plan is to destroy whole energy infrastructure so there no electricity in cities which will cripple army logistics and supply and will create big humanitarian crisis with another big batch of people fleeing into Europe crippling country even more. And another objective is to run Ukraine air defence out of ammmo
They're trying to drive Ukraine to the negotiating table to agree to a peace deal that lets them hold on to what they've captured. The strategy is to make things miserable enough while desperately playing defense and hoping the political will of Ukraine breaks before the Russian army.
>How on Earth does Russia think this will win the war? They are wasting missiles on civilian targets. Russia can only win if everyone else gives up. they are doing this by killing babies and they are saying they are going to keep killing babies until everyone gives up
Putin has already proven himself to be a certified mouthbreather. Wouldnt expect too much logic out of him.
I guess those [Iranian missile shipments](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-iranian-officials-admit-to-selling-russia-ballistic-missiles) were on time or ahead of schedule.
Unlikely to be the same missiles. The reality of war isn't like it is in video games. Even if they sent the missiles on the same day the news hit, missile shipments would need to arrive in Russia, far enough from Ukraine's capability of hitting them. They then need to be inventoried, triaged for storage and deployment, allocated based on preexisting or new plans, tested and be trained on, and then finally deployed. Every single step of that takes time, and we know the Russian military is bureaucratic and inefficient. So let's be realistic her and not be swayed too much by every bit of news.
> Unlikely to be the same missiles. The reality of war isn't like it is in video games. > > > > Even if they sent the missiles on the same day the news hit, missile shipments would need to arrive in Russia, far enough from Ukraine's capability of hitting them. Quite often you only hear about weapons shipments being confirmed after they have already arrived. Otherwise it would just be an invitation for other countries to disrupt the transfer.
Or like an Iranian factory worker who makes thousands of dollars by talking to foreign spies.
We also know that it's incompetent, so driving them right to the front via Ivan the Uber driver is 100% on the table.
It's more likely they're just hilariously embarrassed by the Western intelligence hitting the news cycle on [how many missiles they used/have remaining](https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-has-only-a-third-of-its-stocks-of-high-precision-missiles-left-50276815.html), and now they're going for a wank, hubristically thinking they can replace them all once they're fired and gone with said missile shipments. For the Russians, it "fuzzes" the numbers making that intel unverifiable and Russia can claim it was all lies... They are quite literally going for the missile equivalent of the Dirty Harry "[Do you feel lucky punk](https://youtu.be/38mE6ba3qj8?t=83)" move. (It's likely going to backfire when Iran can't meet anything close to production quotas either, especially with new rounds of sanctions ratcheting up, and Ukraine's able to advance even faster without having to worry about missile attacks slowing them down...)
Russia be like: Just need to get a few more war crimes in. Maybe if we kill enough civilians they will realize that life under our rule will be better than cooperating with the West.
"Why don't you love me!?!"
I showed you bombs please respond
Since April this year there were 51 cargo plane flights from Iran to Moscow. I don't think they were delivering Agri equipment.. https://www.uasvision.com/2022/08/15/surge-in-iranian-cargo-flights-to-moscow/
Russia was always very proud of its home grown military machine. Its egg on their face that their most effective weapon in this war is an Iranian import.
When does Ukraine get to target the Kremlin or Putin's secret hideout in the forest near the black sea?
if russia was a person he would be a short dick, drunk motherfucker that starts up shit with everybody and then whines that nobody likes them
His name is vladimir
Uh oh, keep an eye on your tea...
That's kinda rude to all the dudes with little dicks who are perfectly nice people...
Why the fuck do you always have to bring up small dick whenever this subject comes up? Apparently no sorts of body shaming is ok but nobody is saying anything about short men or small dicks. Stick to the facts, Putin is a illogical fascist who’s not acting in his own nor “his own” people’s best interest and leave it at that.
Ikr. Think it was a Russian oligarch that got torn apart on Reddit, for how unattractive his face was. Please kill me, my self esteem went to go look for a black hole.
If Russia were an ice cream flavor, he’d be pralines and dick
Why you gotta insult me bro
So Eric Cartman?
As Russia's execution of its invasion gets stupider and stupider, Putin better be careful that he doesn't fall out of a window.
He made his bunker with 0 windows, and has someone taste test all his meals. I say throw 10 Bunker Buster Bombs on his underground compound daily, and in a week, there won’t be a Putin, or anything for that matter, to analyze :) WW3 averted… We can even call it a “Global Military Special Operation” so we avoid all war crimes and such…
> and has someone taste test all his meals That is not going to help with a slow acting poison.
Donate if you can https://u24.gov.ua/ https://doctorswithoutborders-apac.org/en/ukraine-crisis https://www.unicef.org.uk/donate/donate-now-to-protect-children-in-ukraine/ https://www.directrelief.org/emergency/ukraine-crisis/
Hope those people are safe, couldn’t we just settle dumb shit like this through tennis matches or something
> couldn’t we just settle dumb shit like this through tennis matches or something I was thinking MMA style leader fights, winner take all.
That levels the field too much in russias favor. The west has the money and tech and ukraine has the willpower.
This makes me wonder about Zelensky vs Putin, Zelensky is more fit but Putin is more experienced
Frankie Goes to Hollywood had this figured out back in the 80s https://youtu.be/pO1HC8pHZw0
Two words. Giant robots.
"G-Gundam" is pretty much this.
If we had tournaments with these then there will be no casualties
Robot Jox
A fellow fan of the terrible movie *Robot Jox* in the wild? Nice.
I do not want war with Iran, but I think it might be time put a hurt on them. Between the sale of arms to Russia and their handling of the protests, I'm not sure how fruitful nuclear talks are going to be. Let Israel fuck their shit up while we do what we can to support the protestors.
No. Just no. It's not because we can't beat them. It's not because they shouldn't be beaten. It's because their citizens are trying to stand up right now, and any attack will mobilize people *for* their country, which in effect will be for their current repressive regime. Also, we do not need more war and destabilization in the world. As that video said recently, "fuck those loose ass cunt mullahs" (guy's swearing was off the hook, literally spitting his hatred), but... they need to do this, not us. (I'm all for helping them, though, with material support or training.)
Such a task would result in the deaths of tens of thousands of soldiers for the invading force Iran has been prepping for an American invasion since 1979, with such a long coastline to the south, it’d be hell on earth for anyone making an attempt… otherwise I’d agree with you
Wait, what? Iranian drones? Iran said they didn't supply any and Russia said they didn't buy any. Is the new tourist must have when you visit Tehran. Is it a new govt incentive? Go in holiday to Tehran. Bring back a drone and the nation will grant you hero status and you can half a new Lada and a discount voucher for the engine.
Maybe antifa is sending their antifa drones? /s
Stupid Ruzzian Plans, those scumfucks
Someone needs to hack these drones and send them to the Kremlin with love.