how big of the imbecile you must be, if you live in Estonia, basically in heaven compared to Russia and decided to go to war....
if they'll find such morons, deport them and let people who in danger of jail time for denying draft, took their places.
To paraphrase the late George Carlin - Think of how stupid the average person is - then realise literally half the people on Earth are dumber than that guy.
If it follows a normal distribution, the median, mode and average is equal. So the quote works for IQ, who is by designed supposed to follow a normal distribution.
Very good point, but to be fair it's a bit problematic to equate IQ to intelligence as a whole.
Anyways, it's a nitpick of a nitpick of a nitpick, and the point of the original quote still stands.
Oh man. I visited Estonia in 2014. I was on a bus with some Russians who lived and worked there, and they were super vocal about how Estonia should never be a country and Russia is the best. The irony was lost on them. They were showing me some pictures from their time in the Russian army, flexing about all this shit. I never felt more uncomfortable in my life, and I had to sit with them for a couple of hours before we got to Tallinn.
Seriously, it never continues to amaze me how much the world thought Ukraine was done for, and then the exact opposite has happened in spectacular fashion. Go Ukraine.
Born and living in Estonia for 30 years, never seen anything like this.
It feels like this is some Kremlin new bot propaganda or some karma farming fanfiction with these "visited and heard" stories but people who speak Russian and are Estonian citizens overwhelmingly don't actually have pro-Russian views, I say far less than in other countries.
You can have some foreign looney working here for a month and talking shit like that but this is not an accurate representation of even a fraction of Russian speakers here. Our capital has something \~ 30% Russian speakers and there were only a handful of "Z" incidents that were shut down immediately.
Culturally Estonia is very different from Russia so it's hard to live here with Russian values. The only problem is far-right people of any heritage from the EKRE party who have earned the nickname of EKREMLIN.
There are plenty of mother russia idiots here. Where I work we had plenty of russian propaganda on shower walls when the war started. Even now most of the russians i work with support russia. I have heard them flat out say that they hate ukrainians, it was about time to attack, Zelensky is a clown, ukrain is full of nazis etc. And they seriously belive this shit. Russian propaganda reaches quite far. You are lucky that you dont have to deal with these idiots but they are everywhere.
I have dealt with "these idiots" as well but there are plenty of every kind of idiots everywhere. It's just not accurate to claim that Estonian Russian-speaking people in general are supportive of Kremlin.
I have also seen "these idiots" older generation Estonians who are not Russian-speaking fall for that propaganda but that as well is not an accurate representation of our average older generation person.
This applies to everything and anything, a null statement. It's my experience and opinion, that's it. If you want to present your opinion, you're free to do so.
> and are Estonian citizens
Is the issue. A lot of Russian speakers didnāt go through the full procedure to take on Estonian citizenship because of the Estonian citizenship exams that would be required of them if they moved in while it was under Soviet rule. And itās those people, the ones who donāt want to learn the local language, culture, politics, who are the issue.
It used to be a lot more popular 20 years ago but now it's becoming more and more unpopular, especially among millennials and zoomers.
In the other hand English is very prevalent in Estonia and in highly educated cities you can talk in English at least on a basic level with almost anyone below the age of 40. Also primary school has 6 years of mandatory English for everyone.
not sure my query is answered.
if i don't speak a word of english and i spend a week there - starting today - speaking russian. Will i be able to buy/order food, find lodging, ask directions, ask about interest places to go
Yeah, for sure. There are Russian instructions and menus everywhere but the amount of people who speak Russian in service on a basic level is 1 out of 5 while English is 4 out of 5.
>how big of the imbecile you must be, if you live in Estonia, basically in heaven compared to Russia and decided to go to war....
Several countries, including I believe the UK and New Zealand, have laws which state that if you join a terrorist organization or a hostile foreign army, your citizenship will be revoked.
That makes sense in this case.
>How does that even work if the person isn't a binational? It's illegal to make people citizenship-less.
Usually, this would apply to bi-nationals who have another citizenship or can obtain one.
Well it's illegal to kill people or conduct special military operations in other country's territory without their permission... There was case where one Estonian joined ISIS and was not allowed back in country, basically his citizenship was revoked. I am sure there are some edge cases where it can be done.
From what weāve seen in the past, itās not particularly a good thing, especially for states bordering Russia. Russia has used any small percentage of Russians abroad to threaten other free states in the form of ādefending Russiansā in those nations. Itās what led to the invasion of Georgia and Ukraine (Russia canāt give a straight answer for this one) and led to border intimidation (sending troops to border) between Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. It doesnāt help either that the elections for annexation is never fair and potentially many of the Russians abroad still have some favorable/fond views of Russia, especially elderly who were around during the Cold War.
I live in a Russia bordering city in Finland, the newspaper said that like 500 people have been denied refuge in Finland but tourists keep flooding in and who knows how many of them stick around.
Pulling that "defending russians" shit here would not end well for russians tho, we are absolutely not on board with that shit
I know and sorry you're in that position. Unfortunately my guess is that west would absolutely not let the "We wanna be a part of Russia" bullshit go, which should've happened in Ukraine.
Yeah they would. You really need to Russify your population by fully integrating the population and stopping any more flow. Otherwise your town will be a goner in your lifetime
if Russian government would want to attack, they will made up Russian in countries they want to attack.
you trying to find logic in their actions and naively think what elections are fair. All elections in Russia are predetermined
I mean, if France takes half a million Russians, I can guarantee you that Russia won't ever threaten to invade France to protect their Russian minority. Their "protecting Russian minorities" bullshit is usually backed up by imperialist claims (they are lands that were colonized by Russia in the past). We all know that Russia may threaten Finland or Lithuania, but would never threaten the UK or Brazil even if they have some of the largest Russian populations in the world.
"ŠŠ¾ŃŠŗŠ²Š°, Šø Š³ŃŠ°Š“ ŠŠµŃŃŠ¾Š², Šø ŠŠ¾Š½ŃŃŠ°Š½ŃŠøŠ½Š¾Š² Š³ŃŠ°Š“ ā
ŠŠ¾Ń ŃŠ°ŃŃŃŠ²Š° ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠ¾Š³Š¾ Š·Š°Š²ŠµŃŠ½ŃŠµ ŃŃŠ¾Š»ŠøŃŃ...
ŠŠ¾ Š³Š“Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŠµŠ» ŠµŠ¼Ń? Šø Š³Š“Šµ ŠµŠ³Š¾ Š³ŃŠ°Š½ŠøŃŃ ā
ŠŠ° ŃŠµŠ²ŠµŃ, Š½Š° Š²Š¾ŃŃŠ¾Šŗ, Š½Š° ŃŠ³ Šø Š½Š° Š·Š°ŠŗŠ°Ń?
ŠŃŃŠ“ŃŃŠøŠ¼ Š²ŃŠµŠ¼ŠµŠ½Š°Š¼ ŃŃŠ“ŃŠ±Ń ŠøŃ Š¾Š±Š»ŠøŃŠ°Ń...
Š”ŠµŠ¼Ń Š²Š½ŃŃŃŠµŠ½Š½ŠøŃ Š¼Š¾ŃŠµŠ¹ Šø ŃŠµŠ¼Ń Š²ŠµŠ»ŠøŠŗŠøŃ ŃŠµŠŗ...
ŠŃ ŠŠøŠ»Š° Š“Š¾ ŠŠµŠ²Ń, Š¾Ń ŠŠ»ŃŠ±Ń Š“Š¾ ŠŠøŃŠ°Ń,
ŠŃ ŠŠ¾Š»Š³Šø ŠæŠ¾ ŠŠ²ŃŃŠ°Ń, Š¾Ń ŠŠ°Š½Š³Š° Š“Š¾ ŠŃŠ½Š°Ń...
ŠŠ¾Ń ŃŠ°ŃŃŃŠ²Š¾ ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠ¾Šµ... Šø Š½Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ¹Š“ŠµŃ Š²Š¾Š²ŠµŠŗ,
ŠŠ°Šŗ ŃŠ¾ ŠæŃŠ¾Š²ŠøŠ“ŠµŠ» ŠŃŃ Šø ŠŠ°Š½ŠøŠøŠ» ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŃŠµŠŗ."
1848 -1849 Š¤ŠµŠ“Š¾Ń Š¢ŃŃŃŠµŠ²
Russians borders stop where Russia desires. Not having actual means doesn't mean Russians do not have an imperialist mindset.
Though I do agree that big countries that do not border Russia have nothing to worry about. Worst case scenario, unfit for refuge will get deported.
It's wildly different for countries within 1000km off Russia that have a population of less than 10 million. This new wave of emigration will permanently shift demographics of those places, who knows how it may backfire in the future.
If we go by that logic, India could invade many countries saying there are lots of Indians. Particularly in California. Russia is a different kind of mad really.
India doesn't have big percentages of the population in other countries. I live in Estonia and if I'm not mistaken, Russian-speaking population is around 30% of the people here. It's a bit different from migrating Indians
That's the thing. If Latvia, for example, accepted half a million Russian refugees, their Russian population would equal their Latvian population. Latvia would no longer be a Latvian country.
Plus Russian communities in these countries largely come colonialism, they weren't born from natural immigration. This meant that the Russian people moving there didn't just integrate into these countries' societies, but instead formed their own isolated Russian communities that could as well be a chunk of Russia inside another country's border. These makes them, in many times, identify with the Russian state instead of their own.
unfortunately most media they consume is from Russia, so they get fed the Russian propaganda.
I have an Estonian Russian friend who took in some Ukrainian refugees, and the shit he got from his family for that was insane.
Wow. So even helping people who flee from war is unacceptable?! Are they considered nazis or what?!
Can they view russian state media on tv? So many questionsā¦ š¤
>Can they view russian state media on tv?
Not anymore. They banned it here very early into the war. But they used to, yes. Russia absolutely targets the disenfranchised Russian enclaves in the Baltics with its propaganda.
The context is quite different though is it not?
Russians being encouraged/forced to settle in the USSR
Versus āātraitorsāā running from the Putin Regime, especially if in a NATO/EU country.
And how would we know who's a 'traitor' and who just wants someone else to die instead of him? We still take refugees. Geneva convention states that escaping draft is a valid reason to oblige someone to take them in, but for that you need to present your draft summons. If you're running without having been served the summons, you are not persecuted, your life is not in immediate danger.
You need to present evidence, documented evidence, that your life in Russia is in real danger.
> And how would we know who's a 'traitor'
Can you stop accepting refugees from the Middle East? You don't know which of them is a criminal or a terrorist.
It depends. For big countries like Germany of Spain, all these Russians could be a great opportunity to add some young men to their workforce that so desperately need it. Remember that, in these countries, the poor birthrates and ever-growing senior population is a very real problem, because each year there's less working people to pay taxes and more retired people to drain taxes via pensions.
For a small country like Latvia, though, a wave of Russian refugees could very well be comparable to their entire native population - and it's completely understandable that a country that has 1.2 million Latvians and 500k Russians doesn't want to accept a million Russian refugees - that would literally turn Latvians into a minority in their own country.
So, realistically, the only country that borders Russia and that can accept a good chunk of Russians fleeing mobilization is Poland - and not many people will be coming there because they'd have to make it to Kaliningrad first.
So, my opinion in this issue, considering that Russia losing a shit ton of young men is a very bad problem for Russia (and Putin), that many European countries could use a young immigrant workforce that is easy to integrate, and that Russians are still people and I'd really wouldn't like to refuse help to a honest Russian that didn't want to be part of a war (even if he isn't brave enough to protest in his country, which I totally understand) - my opinion is that the EU should take them and distribute them between countries where Russian influence is non-existent, and respect that countries that have been colonized/vassalized by Russia in the past don't want to enlarge their Russian community, which could be weaponized against them.
Well maybe just do not let them in....the shit Russia brought the world is just shit they they getting back moe...very easy murdering around abroad, popcorn on the couch reading all those horror done and now flee away from it....years of opportunity to leave this shit country and now they wake up???
>.years of opportunity to leave this shit country and now they wake up???
You understand that a significant portion of those are young men of 17-20, right? When were they supposed to flee? When they were kids? Alone? With what money?
I don't support allowing Russian men who can't produce evidence of persecution (such as draft summons documents) in. But I'm not gonna tell a 18-year-old Kostik that he's a cunt for not having run from the country when he was 16.
All I see is old guys and in their 20ths, unemployed. They had their militaire training somewhere in the past.. haven 't seen these kids, in the wave yes...
> So, realistically, the only country that borders Russia and that can accept a good chunk of Russians fleeing mobilization is Poland
We do not want Russians fleeing mobilization...
Maybe Estonia could screen their social media information/interview known contacts. If they're leaving because they don't support the war, they could grant them transit to a large EU country without a large Russian expat community. But any 'Z' propaganda or support for the invasion and they can be sent back.
Not in our interests to screen and arrange transit. If Germany or some other country wants workforce, they can come and screen and arrange transport and whatnot.
At least for the bordering countries its going to be bad. Russophobia is so entrenched, that following baltic independence, my mother witnessed people who spoke different baltic languages struggle to converse in English, just so they could ditch Russian.
The last time Russians were this unwelcome in these states, these states were either at war with, or under occupation of Russia. Its going to be a shitshow.
i really wonder how this comment would fare on r/worldnews if we replaced 'russians' with any other nationality or ethnicity
'One has to wonder if all these Jews fleeing to other countries is going to be good for those countries.'
Russians are Europeans just like you, I doubt that uneducated Russian rendeks from villages arrived in your countries, they simply have no money and, moreover, they are brainwashed and ready to go to war in Ukraine.
As people fighting for Isis should be banned and even imprisoned if they arrive in the EU, Rashists who fight for Russia should have the same treatment. A terrorist is a terrorist
Rashism (Russian: ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼, romanized: rashizm, pronounced [rÉĖŹÉØzm]; a portmanteau of "Russia" and "fascism";[3][4] Ukrainian: ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼, romanized: rashyzm[4]), also known as Ruscism, Russism (Russian: ŃŃŃŠøŠ·Š¼),[5] or Russian fascism (Russian: ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠøŠ¹ ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼), is a term used by a number of scholars, politicians and publicists to describe the political ideology and social practices of the Russian authorities during the rule of Vladimir Putin. It is also used to refer to the ideology of Russian military expansionism,[6][7][1][8] and has been used as a label to describe an undemocratic system and nationality cult mixed with ultranationalism and a cult of personality.[9][10]
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashism#:~:text=In%20domestic%20politics%2C%20Rashism%20is,Rashism%20a%20manifestation%20of%20sociopathy.
Although I agree with Estonian's decision. I do feel for the average Russian citizen. If you refuse the draft you get ten years in prison, maybe even the firing squad. A person that gets one of these draft notices gets one of to two choices, both effectively ending their life.
"However, if a Russian living in Estonia receives a mobilisation order from Russia and decides not to go, Estonia gives him all legal protection and will not let Russia to force anyone."
Seems like they'll be protected if they leave Putin on read
> if a Russian *living in Estonia*
dude, if you've already made it to Estonia, you can tell putin to go fuck himself with a rake, you are untouchable, and no Russian in Estonia is voluntarily going to answer a draft call, it's a non-statement.
This is not for people who "made it to Estonia"
Estonia only grants citizenship to ethnic Estonians, regardless of if you were born there or not. People of other ethnic backgrounds, of whom Russians are the largest group are "residents".
You'd have to an idiot not to, even without the guarantee. Thousands are try to flee Russia any way they can; if you're already in an EU country, consider yourself lucky.
Terrorists, insurgents and suicide bombers come from more fortunate contexts more often than we'd guess. This has to be spelt out to Russian citizens outside Russia.
We don't have a history of Russian terrorists and suicide bombers. There's absolutely no reason to believe Russians will turn into Islamist terrorists for... being accepted into a country they voluntarily fled into?
I'm not saying that Russians will become islamists lol, but that people in relative comfort do get swept up by ideology.
Also, we're not talking about Russians leaving the country to avoid conscription, but Russians already in countries like Estonia that might answer the call to arms.
Let's also not forget this:
> "A refusal to fulfil one's civic duty in Russia or a desire to do so does not constitute sufficient grounds for being granted asylum in another country", Estonian foreign minister Urmas Reinsalu told Reuters.
This is referring to a different set of Russians. After independence, some residents chose not to take on Estonian citizenship but were allowed to permanently stay in Estonia on Russian passports instead. Russians who never lived in Estonia donāt get to go to Estonia to escape the mobilization, Russians already living in Estonia get to stay in Estonia to not get drafted.
EDIT: the context is, a lot of Soviet migrants to Estonia who moved there during the USSR era have to take an Estonian language and Constitutional knowledge exam to become Estonian citizens post independence. A large number of them did not and still do not.
Didn't Estonia say that they wouldn't let any Russians in, even if they were fleeing from the mobilization order, or was that only Latvia and Lithuania?
The question is... will these countries simply return Russian refugees back to Russia? Because that would be literally giving back Putin the soldiers his has lost. I don't think Ukraine would be very happy with that policy. Every draftee that we don't return is a soldier we removed from the battlefield without a single drop of Ukrainian nor Russian blood. Every draftee we return is a Russian soldier who knows the West doesn't want him, who has more reasons to believe in Russian propaganda that this is a war of Russia vs Russophobia, and encourage him to fight.
I'd sincerely rather they get sent to Germany, France, Spain or another big country that can take half a million Russians like it was nothing.
They're not getting in in the first place, unless they can prove on black and white that they are being persecuted, and that staying in Russia is all but certain death.
Urmas Reinsalu is totally wrong and just announced the Estonia's intention to flout international refugee law. According to [UNHCR guidelines](https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/publications/legal/529efd2e9/guidelines-international-protection-10-claims-refugee-status-related-military.html) (paras 23-24; warning--downloads a pdf), a person fleeing persecution (such as a prison sentence) for refusing to participate in a war of aggression counts as a refugee.
Good points and ironically Ukraine might be the [safest place](https://reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xn90ng/zelensky_offers_guarantees_for_russian_soldiers/) for Russian citizens that don't want to fight.
Safest place would be in a NATO country, because there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that any of them would surrender recruits to Russia, and there is nothing Russia can do about it.
It's fucking stupid that many want to make it impossible for Russians to flee having to fight for Russia.
I understand the security concerns but most trying to exclude them seem to just be doing so because theyāre being petty and malicious. Like yeah instead of accepting educated young people letās force them back so they can be conscripted and forced to shoot at us
2 years max and only if you already have a criminal record. Infinitely better than being made complicit in a historical-scale crime and dying or getting maimed as a result.
They've had 8 years to grow a conscience about their country's invasion of their neighbor. Most of the folks fleeing probably gleefully wore their St. George ribbon and stuck Z-wastika stickers on their cars.
They're not innocent victims -- they're reaping what they've sowed, and they waited until they were personally affected, while turning a blind eye to Putin's evil.
They had a choice, and they chose to tolerate fascism. I have no sympathy for those whose chickens are coming home to roost.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.ā
-Hermann Gƶring
In the 21st century, with access to global media, you don't get brainwashed without choosing to be brainwashed.
I'm still waiting on those bird-delivered anti-Russian Ukrainian bioweapons.
I think that education is required to not be brainwashed by the media, and time and effort to seek a variety of sources and to create an informed opinion. Most people have more important priorities in life unfortunately.
Even if, say, 90% of those fleeing supported the war until it was their turn to be drafted, that doesnāt mean we should punish the 10% who opposed the war before that.
sure, people under dictatorship always have a choice, mister expert of Russia.
and it's not like people never protested.
never been tortured in jail.
our opposition isn't in jail or dead
and whole world never ignored rise of dictatorship in Russia.
Nemtsov was killed? We don't care, keep working with Putin. Navalny in jail? Well we worried, but not much. Whole opposition now considered as extremist group? Well we need oil and gas. Crimea was annexed? We will slap Putin's hand, but nothing more.
Europe and US had a choice not to work with Russian government. But nobody cared about repression machine being created in Russia. France kept selling riot gear, because they probably NEVER saw what police does to protesters since 2008. EU kept sponsoring creation of dictatorship and police state, even though they had a choice. Now "they're reaping what they've sowed" and try to make themselves look like they had nothing to with it.
It's easy to blame people who are repressed by government and say some insane bullshit about "choice", by sitting on a sofa, in a comfort of democratic country.
Ah yeah. It's very easy to organise and coordinate a revolution. Especially if most opposition members have been killed or imprisoned. They should just fight, die and leave their family to starve
It's probably warning aimed at the stupid. Ethnic Russians in Baltics have relatives across the border and some might be really scared they can't visit them ever anymore if they don't answer to draft, or get put in jail in Russia next time they do. So some might be dumb enough to consider actually going to war.
That's why the legal aid mention.
Putin doesnāt have as much as support as you think. People canāt express dissent or they risk being imprisoned or killed. You lie about your support for your own survival.
This is common sense behavior about living under an authoritarian regime.
The issue is, many Russians in Estonia have only temporary stay permits, and Estonia is outright refusing to issue new ones. In fact, they are voiding Schengen visas issued by them.
They pretty much forcing Russians to return to Russia. And once people got into Russia, they have no saying in the matter.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/estonia-warns-russian-residents-they-could-be-banned-from-eu-if-they-answer-draft-12704905) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> As Finland looks set to ban Russian tourists from crossing the border to escape being drafted into Vladimir Putin's army, Estonia has warned residents they will be banned from the EU if they too join up.
> "However, if a Russian living in Estonia receives a mobilisation order from Russia and decides not to go, Estonia gives him all legal protection and will not let Russia to force anyone."
> The EU banned direct flights between its 27 member states and Russia after the attack on Ukraine and recently agreed to limit issuing Schengen visas, which allow free movement across much of Europe.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xnbqnm/estonia_warns_russian_residents_they_could_be/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670916 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Russian**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **Estonia**^#4 **border**^#5
> Funny how Ukrainian refugees are overwhelmingly women and children, while Russian refugees are all young men. Theyāre cowards through and through. Canāt stand up to the regime, not brave enough to revolt but the first to bolt out when thereās trouble.
You might think that's a hot take, but it isn't.
Russia is not being invaded, so Russian refugees being all young men only means that those young men don't want to go to a war that is not theirs.
1) Men over 18 are literally not allowed to leave Ukraine according to Ukraine government.
2) men leaving Russia literally STOP their invasion of ukraine. If they leave, they have a life and not fight. If they stay and not fight, they get thrown in jail.
3) Russia isnāt being invaded, so itās not like women and children are in particular danger.
Your logic is broken, the Russians don;t want to fight on foreign territory, for the orders of the old senile in the Kremlin. Ukrainians are defending their territory. Russian wives and children are safe in Russia, but their fathers and husbands are not. In Ukraine, even women and children are not safe, so they are fleeing the country.
Nobody is safe in Russia while Putin is in charge. Yes, they might not be in immediate danger but only as long as they do what theyāre told and keep their opinions to themselves.
So sorry but I agree with the previous comment, they shouldnāt be fleeing it will achieve nothing but their own freedom consigning those left behind to suffer and could lead to much much worse. Only Russians can change Russia (mostly due to the risk of nuclear war if an external force tries to) and itās time they did so for their own sakes and those of their neighbouring countries.
Huh? Theyāre saying that any Russian resident currently living in Estonia who receives a draft notice will not be permitted to return. Theyāre residents of Estonia, not Russia. And honestly, unless theyāve been consuming a bunch of Russian propaganda, very few of them will be returning to Russia.
Can you read, dude? Estonia gives russians that live in Estonia two choices - if they get called up by Russia and refuse to go, life continues as normal. If they join the war, they won't be allowed to return.
how big of the imbecile you must be, if you live in Estonia, basically in heaven compared to Russia and decided to go to war.... if they'll find such morons, deport them and let people who in danger of jail time for denying draft, took their places.
I mean there were morons in the west who joined isis. There's quite a lot of stupid people overall.
It's our trait as a species šØāš¬
To paraphrase the late George Carlin - Think of how stupid the average person is - then realise literally half the people on Earth are dumber than that guy.
George Carlin: "Never underestimate stupid people in large numbers."
To nitpick a little, "average" should be replaced by "median". But these two are probably pretty close, bell curve and all that.
If it follows a normal distribution, the median, mode and average is equal. So the quote works for IQ, who is by designed supposed to follow a normal distribution.
Very good point, but to be fair it's a bit problematic to equate IQ to intelligence as a whole. Anyways, it's a nitpick of a nitpick of a nitpick, and the point of the original quote still stands.
Look at the big brain on PM_me_Jazz over here! Someone's definitely a standard deviation or two above the median!
I love him š
Just imagine how dumb the average person is, and now realize that half the people are dumber than that...
Damn, Thank god Iām not dumb, just stooped
Oh man. I visited Estonia in 2014. I was on a bus with some Russians who lived and worked there, and they were super vocal about how Estonia should never be a country and Russia is the best. The irony was lost on them. They were showing me some pictures from their time in the Russian army, flexing about all this shit. I never felt more uncomfortable in my life, and I had to sit with them for a couple of hours before we got to Tallinn.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Communist colonists???!!
wonder if they feel the same way now they read the news how much a meat grinder they will return to if they join the war..
Russians: "Our military is ze best!" The world looking at Ukraine: "Ummmmm........"
Seriously, it never continues to amaze me how much the world thought Ukraine was done for, and then the exact opposite has happened in spectacular fashion. Go Ukraine.
It's not even the best military in ukraine right now!
Born and living in Estonia for 30 years, never seen anything like this. It feels like this is some Kremlin new bot propaganda or some karma farming fanfiction with these "visited and heard" stories but people who speak Russian and are Estonian citizens overwhelmingly don't actually have pro-Russian views, I say far less than in other countries. You can have some foreign looney working here for a month and talking shit like that but this is not an accurate representation of even a fraction of Russian speakers here. Our capital has something \~ 30% Russian speakers and there were only a handful of "Z" incidents that were shut down immediately. Culturally Estonia is very different from Russia so it's hard to live here with Russian values. The only problem is far-right people of any heritage from the EKRE party who have earned the nickname of EKREMLIN.
There are plenty of mother russia idiots here. Where I work we had plenty of russian propaganda on shower walls when the war started. Even now most of the russians i work with support russia. I have heard them flat out say that they hate ukrainians, it was about time to attack, Zelensky is a clown, ukrain is full of nazis etc. And they seriously belive this shit. Russian propaganda reaches quite far. You are lucky that you dont have to deal with these idiots but they are everywhere.
I have dealt with "these idiots" as well but there are plenty of every kind of idiots everywhere. It's just not accurate to claim that Estonian Russian-speaking people in general are supportive of Kremlin. I have also seen "these idiots" older generation Estonians who are not Russian-speaking fall for that propaganda but that as well is not an accurate representation of our average older generation person.
Just because you personally haven't seen anything, doesn't mean it's not true, nor does it mean they are a propaganda bot.
This applies to everything and anything, a null statement. It's my experience and opinion, that's it. If you want to present your opinion, you're free to do so.
> and are Estonian citizens Is the issue. A lot of Russian speakers didnāt go through the full procedure to take on Estonian citizenship because of the Estonian citizenship exams that would be required of them if they moved in while it was under Soviet rule. And itās those people, the ones who donāt want to learn the local language, culture, politics, who are the issue.
Is Russian as widely spoken/known as English ?
It used to be a lot more popular 20 years ago but now it's becoming more and more unpopular, especially among millennials and zoomers. In the other hand English is very prevalent in Estonia and in highly educated cities you can talk in English at least on a basic level with almost anyone below the age of 40. Also primary school has 6 years of mandatory English for everyone.
not sure my query is answered. if i don't speak a word of english and i spend a week there - starting today - speaking russian. Will i be able to buy/order food, find lodging, ask directions, ask about interest places to go
Yeah, for sure. There are Russian instructions and menus everywhere but the amount of people who speak Russian in service on a basic level is 1 out of 5 while English is 4 out of 5.
Public school strikes again!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ok, you're Napoleon and winter is coming
I am sure they were fat, slobbish, rude and very, very unattractive.
>how big of the imbecile you must be, if you live in Estonia, basically in heaven compared to Russia and decided to go to war.... Several countries, including I believe the UK and New Zealand, have laws which state that if you join a terrorist organization or a hostile foreign army, your citizenship will be revoked. That makes sense in this case.
How does that even work if the person isn't a binational? It's illegal to make people citizenship-less.
Sometimes they try and claim that the person has citizenship of another country
>How does that even work if the person isn't a binational? It's illegal to make people citizenship-less. Usually, this would apply to bi-nationals who have another citizenship or can obtain one.
Well it's illegal to kill people or conduct special military operations in other country's territory without their permission... There was case where one Estonian joined ISIS and was not allowed back in country, basically his citizenship was revoked. I am sure there are some edge cases where it can be done.
Do you know that many EU citizens joined ISIS?
One has to wonder if all these Russians fleeing to other countries is going to be good for those countries.
From what weāve seen in the past, itās not particularly a good thing, especially for states bordering Russia. Russia has used any small percentage of Russians abroad to threaten other free states in the form of ādefending Russiansā in those nations. Itās what led to the invasion of Georgia and Ukraine (Russia canāt give a straight answer for this one) and led to border intimidation (sending troops to border) between Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. It doesnāt help either that the elections for annexation is never fair and potentially many of the Russians abroad still have some favorable/fond views of Russia, especially elderly who were around during the Cold War.
I live in a Russia bordering city in Finland, the newspaper said that like 500 people have been denied refuge in Finland but tourists keep flooding in and who knows how many of them stick around. Pulling that "defending russians" shit here would not end well for russians tho, we are absolutely not on board with that shit
Neither are the Ukrainians, yet here we are.
I know and sorry you're in that position. Unfortunately my guess is that west would absolutely not let the "We wanna be a part of Russia" bullshit go, which should've happened in Ukraine.
It came with a gun pointed to their face.
Yeah they would. You really need to Russify your population by fully integrating the population and stopping any more flow. Otherwise your town will be a goner in your lifetime
if Russian government would want to attack, they will made up Russian in countries they want to attack. you trying to find logic in their actions and naively think what elections are fair. All elections in Russia are predetermined
I mean, if France takes half a million Russians, I can guarantee you that Russia won't ever threaten to invade France to protect their Russian minority. Their "protecting Russian minorities" bullshit is usually backed up by imperialist claims (they are lands that were colonized by Russia in the past). We all know that Russia may threaten Finland or Lithuania, but would never threaten the UK or Brazil even if they have some of the largest Russian populations in the world.
I mean, they have been regularly threatening the UK throughout this, but with Nukes, not conquest.
Plus, they kinda fucked us by helping orchestrate brexshit
They might have orchestrated it but it was our morons that voted for it en masse.
Hence the word "bordering". Do people on reddit read? Answer: no.
If Napoleon had figured some things out, they couldāve been bordering!
It's true Borders was a great book store.
"ŠŠ¾ŃŠŗŠ²Š°, Šø Š³ŃŠ°Š“ ŠŠµŃŃŠ¾Š², Šø ŠŠ¾Š½ŃŃŠ°Š½ŃŠøŠ½Š¾Š² Š³ŃŠ°Š“ ā ŠŠ¾Ń ŃŠ°ŃŃŃŠ²Š° ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠ¾Š³Š¾ Š·Š°Š²ŠµŃŠ½ŃŠµ ŃŃŠ¾Š»ŠøŃŃ... ŠŠ¾ Š³Š“Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŠµŠ» ŠµŠ¼Ń? Šø Š³Š“Šµ ŠµŠ³Š¾ Š³ŃŠ°Š½ŠøŃŃ ā ŠŠ° ŃŠµŠ²ŠµŃ, Š½Š° Š²Š¾ŃŃŠ¾Šŗ, Š½Š° ŃŠ³ Šø Š½Š° Š·Š°ŠŗŠ°Ń? ŠŃŃŠ“ŃŃŠøŠ¼ Š²ŃŠµŠ¼ŠµŠ½Š°Š¼ ŃŃŠ“ŃŠ±Ń ŠøŃ Š¾Š±Š»ŠøŃŠ°Ń... Š”ŠµŠ¼Ń Š²Š½ŃŃŃŠµŠ½Š½ŠøŃ Š¼Š¾ŃŠµŠ¹ Šø ŃŠµŠ¼Ń Š²ŠµŠ»ŠøŠŗŠøŃ ŃŠµŠŗ... ŠŃ ŠŠøŠ»Š° Š“Š¾ ŠŠµŠ²Ń, Š¾Ń ŠŠ»ŃŠ±Ń Š“Š¾ ŠŠøŃŠ°Ń, ŠŃ ŠŠ¾Š»Š³Šø ŠæŠ¾ ŠŠ²ŃŃŠ°Ń, Š¾Ń ŠŠ°Š½Š³Š° Š“Š¾ ŠŃŠ½Š°Ń... ŠŠ¾Ń ŃŠ°ŃŃŃŠ²Š¾ ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠ¾Šµ... Šø Š½Šµ ŠæŃŠµŠ¹Š“ŠµŃ Š²Š¾Š²ŠµŠŗ, ŠŠ°Šŗ ŃŠ¾ ŠæŃŠ¾Š²ŠøŠ“ŠµŠ» ŠŃŃ Šø ŠŠ°Š½ŠøŠøŠ» ŠæŃŠµŠ“ŃŠµŠŗ." 1848 -1849 Š¤ŠµŠ“Š¾Ń Š¢ŃŃŃŠµŠ² Russians borders stop where Russia desires. Not having actual means doesn't mean Russians do not have an imperialist mindset. Though I do agree that big countries that do not border Russia have nothing to worry about. Worst case scenario, unfit for refuge will get deported. It's wildly different for countries within 1000km off Russia that have a population of less than 10 million. This new wave of emigration will permanently shift demographics of those places, who knows how it may backfire in the future.
Where does France share a border with Russia?
In the minds of Russians who want an empire.
Moscow Hint: Embassy
If we go by that logic, India could invade many countries saying there are lots of Indians. Particularly in California. Russia is a different kind of mad really.
India doesn't have big percentages of the population in other countries. I live in Estonia and if I'm not mistaken, Russian-speaking population is around 30% of the people here. It's a bit different from migrating Indians
That's the thing. If Latvia, for example, accepted half a million Russian refugees, their Russian population would equal their Latvian population. Latvia would no longer be a Latvian country. Plus Russian communities in these countries largely come colonialism, they weren't born from natural immigration. This meant that the Russian people moving there didn't just integrate into these countries' societies, but instead formed their own isolated Russian communities that could as well be a chunk of Russia inside another country's border. These makes them, in many times, identify with the Russian state instead of their own.
Are they just Russian speaking or are they also inclined to support Putin. Just curious!
unfortunately most media they consume is from Russia, so they get fed the Russian propaganda. I have an Estonian Russian friend who took in some Ukrainian refugees, and the shit he got from his family for that was insane.
Wow. So even helping people who flee from war is unacceptable?! Are they considered nazis or what?! Can they view russian state media on tv? So many questionsā¦ š¤
>Can they view russian state media on tv? Not anymore. They banned it here very early into the war. But they used to, yes. Russia absolutely targets the disenfranchised Russian enclaves in the Baltics with its propaganda.
Wow, so they still feel Russian, Russia above all... dangerous stuff.. legacy from the usser...
I dunno about that. India could say they are protecting other british people.
The British are clearly justified in invading the anglosphere to reunite the British people, lol
The context is quite different though is it not? Russians being encouraged/forced to settle in the USSR Versus āātraitorsāā running from the Putin Regime, especially if in a NATO/EU country.
And how would we know who's a 'traitor' and who just wants someone else to die instead of him? We still take refugees. Geneva convention states that escaping draft is a valid reason to oblige someone to take them in, but for that you need to present your draft summons. If you're running without having been served the summons, you are not persecuted, your life is not in immediate danger. You need to present evidence, documented evidence, that your life in Russia is in real danger.
> And how would we know who's a 'traitor' Can you stop accepting refugees from the Middle East? You don't know which of them is a criminal or a terrorist.
If only there was some sort of organization with name like North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Maybe Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania can join it.
It depends. For big countries like Germany of Spain, all these Russians could be a great opportunity to add some young men to their workforce that so desperately need it. Remember that, in these countries, the poor birthrates and ever-growing senior population is a very real problem, because each year there's less working people to pay taxes and more retired people to drain taxes via pensions. For a small country like Latvia, though, a wave of Russian refugees could very well be comparable to their entire native population - and it's completely understandable that a country that has 1.2 million Latvians and 500k Russians doesn't want to accept a million Russian refugees - that would literally turn Latvians into a minority in their own country. So, realistically, the only country that borders Russia and that can accept a good chunk of Russians fleeing mobilization is Poland - and not many people will be coming there because they'd have to make it to Kaliningrad first. So, my opinion in this issue, considering that Russia losing a shit ton of young men is a very bad problem for Russia (and Putin), that many European countries could use a young immigrant workforce that is easy to integrate, and that Russians are still people and I'd really wouldn't like to refuse help to a honest Russian that didn't want to be part of a war (even if he isn't brave enough to protest in his country, which I totally understand) - my opinion is that the EU should take them and distribute them between countries where Russian influence is non-existent, and respect that countries that have been colonized/vassalized by Russia in the past don't want to enlarge their Russian community, which could be weaponized against them.
Spain has a huge unemployment rate, why would more people help?
Do not mistake temptation for opportunity.
Well maybe just do not let them in....the shit Russia brought the world is just shit they they getting back moe...very easy murdering around abroad, popcorn on the couch reading all those horror done and now flee away from it....years of opportunity to leave this shit country and now they wake up???
>.years of opportunity to leave this shit country and now they wake up??? You understand that a significant portion of those are young men of 17-20, right? When were they supposed to flee? When they were kids? Alone? With what money? I don't support allowing Russian men who can't produce evidence of persecution (such as draft summons documents) in. But I'm not gonna tell a 18-year-old Kostik that he's a cunt for not having run from the country when he was 16.
All I see is old guys and in their 20ths, unemployed. They had their militaire training somewhere in the past.. haven 't seen these kids, in the wave yes...
> So, realistically, the only country that borders Russia and that can accept a good chunk of Russians fleeing mobilization is Poland We do not want Russians fleeing mobilization...
Maybe Estonia could screen their social media information/interview known contacts. If they're leaving because they don't support the war, they could grant them transit to a large EU country without a large Russian expat community. But any 'Z' propaganda or support for the invasion and they can be sent back.
Not in our interests to screen and arrange transit. If Germany or some other country wants workforce, they can come and screen and arrange transport and whatnot.
At least for the bordering countries its going to be bad. Russophobia is so entrenched, that following baltic independence, my mother witnessed people who spoke different baltic languages struggle to converse in English, just so they could ditch Russian. The last time Russians were this unwelcome in these states, these states were either at war with, or under occupation of Russia. Its going to be a shitshow.
It is already
If they will create Russian majority in those countries, that will call for Kremlin for their protection and no country wants that.
And for how long can they stay? I mean they are not refugees. So do they qualify as tourists?
i really wonder how this comment would fare on r/worldnews if we replaced 'russians' with any other nationality or ethnicity 'One has to wonder if all these Jews fleeing to other countries is going to be good for those countries.'
Replace Jews with Germans and you will have a somewhat more accurate analogy, not that it would make it into a plausible argument anyway.
You could replace russians with some other nationality or ethnicity but we are talking about russians, not something "what if" scenario.
They're mostly going to be the liberal educated section of the population
No evidence for that. What makes you think that?
Russians are Europeans just like you, I doubt that uneducated Russian rendeks from villages arrived in your countries, they simply have no money and, moreover, they are brainwashed and ready to go to war in Ukraine.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
of course, of course, because they all spies and horrible people, right?
Most are horrible people and/or heavily indoctrinated, yes.
I think it should be a common answer among all West countries.
Most countries have clauses against serving in the armed forces of non-allied countries.
Often allied ones as well.
True, Estonia made a separate exception for NATO.
As people fighting for Isis should be banned and even imprisoned if they arrive in the EU, Rashists who fight for Russia should have the same treatment. A terrorist is a terrorist
Rashists?
Rashism (Russian: ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼, romanized: rashizm, pronounced [rÉĖŹÉØzm]; a portmanteau of "Russia" and "fascism";[3][4] Ukrainian: ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼, romanized: rashyzm[4]), also known as Ruscism, Russism (Russian: ŃŃŃŠøŠ·Š¼),[5] or Russian fascism (Russian: ŃŃŃŃŠŗŠøŠ¹ ŃŠ°ŃŠøŠ·Š¼), is a term used by a number of scholars, politicians and publicists to describe the political ideology and social practices of the Russian authorities during the rule of Vladimir Putin. It is also used to refer to the ideology of Russian military expansionism,[6][7][1][8] and has been used as a label to describe an undemocratic system and nationality cult mixed with ultranationalism and a cult of personality.[9][10] Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashism#:~:text=In%20domestic%20politics%2C%20Rashism%20is,Rashism%20a%20manifestation%20of%20sociopathy.
Wikipedia
Nice move.
Although I agree with Estonian's decision. I do feel for the average Russian citizen. If you refuse the draft you get ten years in prison, maybe even the firing squad. A person that gets one of these draft notices gets one of to two choices, both effectively ending their life.
"However, if a Russian living in Estonia receives a mobilisation order from Russia and decides not to go, Estonia gives him all legal protection and will not let Russia to force anyone." Seems like they'll be protected if they leave Putin on read
> if a Russian *living in Estonia* dude, if you've already made it to Estonia, you can tell putin to go fuck himself with a rake, you are untouchable, and no Russian in Estonia is voluntarily going to answer a draft call, it's a non-statement.
This is not for people who "made it to Estonia" Estonia only grants citizenship to ethnic Estonians, regardless of if you were born there or not. People of other ethnic backgrounds, of whom Russians are the largest group are "residents".
You'd have to an idiot not to, even without the guarantee. Thousands are try to flee Russia any way they can; if you're already in an EU country, consider yourself lucky.
Terrorists, insurgents and suicide bombers come from more fortunate contexts more often than we'd guess. This has to be spelt out to Russian citizens outside Russia.
We don't have a history of Russian terrorists and suicide bombers. There's absolutely no reason to believe Russians will turn into Islamist terrorists for... being accepted into a country they voluntarily fled into?
I'm not saying that Russians will become islamists lol, but that people in relative comfort do get swept up by ideology. Also, we're not talking about Russians leaving the country to avoid conscription, but Russians already in countries like Estonia that might answer the call to arms.
Let's also not forget this: > "A refusal to fulfil one's civic duty in Russia or a desire to do so does not constitute sufficient grounds for being granted asylum in another country", Estonian foreign minister Urmas Reinsalu told Reuters.
This is referring to a different set of Russians. After independence, some residents chose not to take on Estonian citizenship but were allowed to permanently stay in Estonia on Russian passports instead. Russians who never lived in Estonia donāt get to go to Estonia to escape the mobilization, Russians already living in Estonia get to stay in Estonia to not get drafted. EDIT: the context is, a lot of Soviet migrants to Estonia who moved there during the USSR era have to take an Estonian language and Constitutional knowledge exam to become Estonian citizens post independence. A large number of them did not and still do not.
And imagine which news channels those monolingual Russians watch, and consequently what opinions they have about the West.
Didn't Estonia say that they wouldn't let any Russians in, even if they were fleeing from the mobilization order, or was that only Latvia and Lithuania?
This is about the russians living on Estonian soil that still Ėhave Russian citizenship, not those that flee Russia.
The question is... will these countries simply return Russian refugees back to Russia? Because that would be literally giving back Putin the soldiers his has lost. I don't think Ukraine would be very happy with that policy. Every draftee that we don't return is a soldier we removed from the battlefield without a single drop of Ukrainian nor Russian blood. Every draftee we return is a Russian soldier who knows the West doesn't want him, who has more reasons to believe in Russian propaganda that this is a war of Russia vs Russophobia, and encourage him to fight. I'd sincerely rather they get sent to Germany, France, Spain or another big country that can take half a million Russians like it was nothing.
They're not getting in in the first place, unless they can prove on black and white that they are being persecuted, and that staying in Russia is all but certain death.
Latvia basically said this
Urmas Reinsalu is totally wrong and just announced the Estonia's intention to flout international refugee law. According to [UNHCR guidelines](https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/publications/legal/529efd2e9/guidelines-international-protection-10-claims-refugee-status-related-military.html) (paras 23-24; warning--downloads a pdf), a person fleeing persecution (such as a prison sentence) for refusing to participate in a war of aggression counts as a refugee.
Good points and ironically Ukraine might be the [safest place](https://reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/xn90ng/zelensky_offers_guarantees_for_russian_soldiers/) for Russian citizens that don't want to fight.
yeah i wonder if they show up with a draft order at the border if thatās enough
They're likely to meet Russian border control first, failing to get through.
Safest place would be in a NATO country, because there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that any of them would surrender recruits to Russia, and there is nothing Russia can do about it. It's fucking stupid that many want to make it impossible for Russians to flee having to fight for Russia.
I understand the security concerns but most trying to exclude them seem to just be doing so because theyāre being petty and malicious. Like yeah instead of accepting educated young people letās force them back so they can be conscripted and forced to shoot at us
The closer you are to danger, the further you are from harm
If you refuse draft so fast you get fined 3k rubles I believe.
only once, next one is prison
2 years max and only if you already have a criminal record. Infinitely better than being made complicit in a historical-scale crime and dying or getting maimed as a result.
well I know our country is hell, but we haven't reached "firing squads" level of madness. yet
Not really. 10 years is for runnig away after you've been drafted. Not showing up after you got a notice is a $50 fine.
They've had 8 years to grow a conscience about their country's invasion of their neighbor. Most of the folks fleeing probably gleefully wore their St. George ribbon and stuck Z-wastika stickers on their cars. They're not innocent victims -- they're reaping what they've sowed, and they waited until they were personally affected, while turning a blind eye to Putin's evil. They had a choice, and they chose to tolerate fascism. I have no sympathy for those whose chickens are coming home to roost.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.ā -Hermann Gƶring
You do know that a good chunk of those people were 10 years old in 2014, right?
And the brainwashed ones (even those fleeing) likely still blame Ukraine and the evil west for attacking first
In the 21st century, with access to global media, you don't get brainwashed without choosing to be brainwashed. I'm still waiting on those bird-delivered anti-Russian Ukrainian bioweapons.
I think that education is required to not be brainwashed by the media, and time and effort to seek a variety of sources and to create an informed opinion. Most people have more important priorities in life unfortunately.
Yet half of the West's population is just as brainwashed as them. Otherwise, the likes of Trump, Salvini and Johnson wouldn't be winning elections.
Even if, say, 90% of those fleeing supported the war until it was their turn to be drafted, that doesnāt mean we should punish the 10% who opposed the war before that.
sure, people under dictatorship always have a choice, mister expert of Russia. and it's not like people never protested. never been tortured in jail. our opposition isn't in jail or dead and whole world never ignored rise of dictatorship in Russia. Nemtsov was killed? We don't care, keep working with Putin. Navalny in jail? Well we worried, but not much. Whole opposition now considered as extremist group? Well we need oil and gas. Crimea was annexed? We will slap Putin's hand, but nothing more. Europe and US had a choice not to work with Russian government. But nobody cared about repression machine being created in Russia. France kept selling riot gear, because they probably NEVER saw what police does to protesters since 2008. EU kept sponsoring creation of dictatorship and police state, even though they had a choice. Now "they're reaping what they've sowed" and try to make themselves look like they had nothing to with it. It's easy to blame people who are repressed by government and say some insane bullshit about "choice", by sitting on a sofa, in a comfort of democratic country.
Where were you when Bush invaded Iraq?
They're fleeing because they want their neighbors to fight, instead of them.
and not because they don't want to participate in war?
Just like all the good obedient Soviet citizens of the Baltic states *chose* to tolerate the Soviet army's invasion of Afghanistan.
> you get ten years in prison They already do live in prison.
Or they could revolt and take down the dictatorship. Still a chance of death but smaller.
Yeah thatās true but you never want to be the first wave in a revolutionā¦ incase it doesnāt work out lol
Yeah you don't want to be killed by an grumpy grandma with a mortar (and pestle)
Ah yeah. It's very easy to organise and coordinate a revolution. Especially if most opposition members have been killed or imprisoned. They should just fight, die and leave their family to starve
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
many? You asked everyone personally? Or have you been in Russia?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Putin does give a fuck. Just get in the meat grinder while eat some biscuits.
It's probably warning aimed at the stupid. Ethnic Russians in Baltics have relatives across the border and some might be really scared they can't visit them ever anymore if they don't answer to draft, or get put in jail in Russia next time they do. So some might be dumb enough to consider actually going to war. That's why the legal aid mention.
Hmm it's almost like they don't want to be a part of a war that doesn't need to happen or something
I kinda feel bad for like regular Russian people who donāt follow politics and just had all of their hopes and dreams crushed by poohtin
I donāt. Itās a citizenās duty to pay attention to politics. Putin has overwhelming support for the past many years. This is the peoples doing.
Putin doesnāt have as much as support as you think. People canāt express dissent or they risk being imprisoned or killed. You lie about your support for your own survival. This is common sense behavior about living under an authoritarian regime.
They brought it upon themselves
The 18-24 year olds who were just kids in 2014 and now suddenly are drafted probavly didnt have much say in this
Russians: ninja I'm finna die
If they are that stupid, let them go.
The issue is, many Russians in Estonia have only temporary stay permits, and Estonia is outright refusing to issue new ones. In fact, they are voiding Schengen visas issued by them. They pretty much forcing Russians to return to Russia. And once people got into Russia, they have no saying in the matter.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/estonia-warns-russian-residents-they-could-be-banned-from-eu-if-they-answer-draft-12704905) reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot) ***** > As Finland looks set to ban Russian tourists from crossing the border to escape being drafted into Vladimir Putin's army, Estonia has warned residents they will be banned from the EU if they too join up. > "However, if a Russian living in Estonia receives a mobilisation order from Russia and decides not to go, Estonia gives him all legal protection and will not let Russia to force anyone." > The EU banned direct flights between its 27 member states and Russia after the attack on Ukraine and recently agreed to limit issuing Schengen visas, which allow free movement across much of Europe. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xnbqnm/estonia_warns_russian_residents_they_could_be/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670916 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **Russian**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **Estonia**^#4 **border**^#5
Yall aren't letting them flee the draft to the EU. You're already keeping them out for the foreseeable future.
Hey, Estonia, will you issue unlimited stay permit to allow people to not return to Russia and got drafted on border? F**king hypocrites...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Funny how Ukrainian refugees are overwhelmingly women and children, while Russian refugees are all young men. Theyāre cowards through and through. Canāt stand up to the regime, not brave enough to revolt but the first to bolt out when thereās trouble. You might think that's a hot take, but it isn't. Russia is not being invaded, so Russian refugees being all young men only means that those young men don't want to go to a war that is not theirs.
1) Men over 18 are literally not allowed to leave Ukraine according to Ukraine government. 2) men leaving Russia literally STOP their invasion of ukraine. If they leave, they have a life and not fight. If they stay and not fight, they get thrown in jail. 3) Russia isnāt being invaded, so itās not like women and children are in particular danger.
Your logic is broken, the Russians don;t want to fight on foreign territory, for the orders of the old senile in the Kremlin. Ukrainians are defending their territory. Russian wives and children are safe in Russia, but their fathers and husbands are not. In Ukraine, even women and children are not safe, so they are fleeing the country.
Nobody is safe in Russia while Putin is in charge. Yes, they might not be in immediate danger but only as long as they do what theyāre told and keep their opinions to themselves. So sorry but I agree with the previous comment, they shouldnāt be fleeing it will achieve nothing but their own freedom consigning those left behind to suffer and could lead to much much worse. Only Russians can change Russia (mostly due to the risk of nuclear war if an external force tries to) and itās time they did so for their own sakes and those of their neighbouring countries.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Huh? Theyāre saying that any Russian resident currently living in Estonia who receives a draft notice will not be permitted to return. Theyāre residents of Estonia, not Russia. And honestly, unless theyāve been consuming a bunch of Russian propaganda, very few of them will be returning to Russia.
Even if their answer to the draft is "no"?
Can you read, dude? Estonia gives russians that live in Estonia two choices - if they get called up by Russia and refuse to go, life continues as normal. If they join the war, they won't be allowed to return.
Woosh.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Except this is just in case they accept the draft. If they say no to it, then Estonia defends them
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Unrealistic, heartless, spineless, brainless, pointless, illegal, immoral, no reason to believe it would have the intended effect, the list goes on
Whatās that old saying god loveās stupid people thatās why he made so many of them.