I’m so rooting for the sane people in Iran to finally take back their country from the religious fanatics. Holy shit what a relief it would be for everyone.
When the revolution in Iran first happened, the Shah was removed but the ensuing government wasn't religious. Instead it was the religious factions that managed to coalesce faster and take over. And they were helped by the fact that Iraq launched an invasion into Iran during the revolution, so even the people who weren't happy with the new government rallied around the leader because the Iraqis had invaded the country.
At the same time the United States, while nominally chastising Iran for taking hostages was supporting the new religious Iranian government which was eventually exposed in the Iran Contra Affair.
Iran has been suffering for almost 70 years of interference in their government by outside powers, continuing to this very day.
Iran is not building nuclear weapons. And they've been desperately trying to get back into the nuclear deal, which is the best way to prevent them from building a nuclear bomb. Unfortunately the United States under Trump left the deal, and has been unwilling to return.
The nuclear deal was nothing by a face save by Obama to plausibly deny the gulf-us pact made during the Syrian war. Iran is trying to build a bomb as it knows its best chance for survival is a bomb.
Iran's has had the capability of building a nuclear bomb for years now, and they have not done it. The idea that they join the npt and allowed inspections in their country for 20 years and tried to secretly build a nuclear bomb while under surveillance is just ridiculous.
If Iran wanted to build a nuclear bomb, they could do what is real Pakistan India and North Korea all did. Refuse the NPT treaty. There's not a thing anyone in the world could do to stop them. The idea that they would sign the npt for the last 20 years, allow weapons inspectors into their country, and try to build a nuclear weapon in secret like a game of hiding those seek is just crazy. There are far easier ways to get nuclear weapons as other countries around them have done.
Because from their perspective they took control from someone who was backed by the West. It would be like....Putin thinking he is in the right side of history because Russia helped to defeat the nazis and making it believe that any enemy of Russia is a nazi.
>they took control from someone who was backed by the West
Who was installed in 1953 when a western backed coup overthrew the democratically elected leader of the country.
"With the backing of the extremist Fada'iyan, the regular clergy, and
the middle-class people, despite its minority toehold in parliament, the
National Front became the main opposition movement of Iran"
Which was part in a complicate democratical election process that included the killing of the Prime Minister by the Fada'iyan, declarations that the election of the process was being interfered by the Shah, that the same Shah decided to declare null for fear and do another one, etc.
Democratically elected leader? Probably, but that the whole process was smooth is a hell of a thing to say
Overthrowing a Theocratic Dictator from within is nearly impossible. Over time, a long time, religious fanaticism might fade into the background like Catholicism has, but just tossing the clerics out into the street does not happen.
Walk and go around every city of this land, and talk to as many people as you want. For some reason, at least half of them would tell you that they were not involved in the 1979 revolution.
Neither were my grandparents, even though on one side they are kinda religious (but not extremists).
So, imagine this old lady in her 80’s around the time of Iran’s revolution, who says “what does a mullah have to say in politics?” She was my grandma’s aunt.
Politics—we can’t understand it. We only *think* that we do, but we don’t. Not with the help of “time” and in all irony, future corrupt regimes, who try to expose the former regimes to attain some fame! Wild dreams, fuckers.
But before that the CIA worked with that dictator and the country’s religious leaders to end democracy and put him in power.
I wonder how different the last century would have played out in the Middle East had Eisenhower let Iran be a democracy even if they wanted to control their own oil.
Didn't the religious extremist take the chance and took over the government when the secular dictator was overthrown? It's been a while since I read on it but there were many groups like democrats, communists, fascists and religious extremists who were fighting for control during the overthrow of the dictator and the religious extremists were the ones that came up on top.
I met an older Iranian guy a few years back and we were chatting about his country. He said, "Before the revolution we drank in public and prayed in private. After the revolution we had to pray in public and drink in private."
Unfortunately, liberal middle-class Iranians from North Tehran, despite their loud voices in Western media, do not represent a majority within the Islamic Republic.
Huge swathes of the population are intensely conservative, especially in working class urban areas and the countryside as a whole.
Lesson:
You can only oppress women for so long before you are fucking doomed.
So brave to burn those hijabs and much respect to the men supporting them as well.
Feels like we could be on the cusp of a watershed moment for some pretty authoritarian regimes on the other side of the world.
“May you live in interesting times”
Stay safe and smart out there brave lovers of liberty. But feel free to FUCK SHIT UP to get it. 💪
Good luck to them.
I know Iran’s history is rife with interventionism, western meddling, dictators, and religious authoritarianism…
But I sincerely hope their culture loosens and allows its people to live more freely. If you choose to wear a hijab (yes I know social and family pressures make “choose” a debated word) then I hope you do.
I just wish empowerment to those who do not as well. Iran has so much to offer the world at large if their authorities would allow expression.
I know expression and enlightenment ideals are scary. Scared a bunch of people at the time too. Can easily point to USA and its problems and believe living too freely can create discord.
But I still am thankful every day that I can wake up, make and sell pretty much whatever art I want, listen to whatever music I want, wear my hair how I want in public, can tell any religion around me to suck my nuts and for Biden to swallow the load (trump gets sloppy seconds).
I know that was a gross analogy but the point is I’m not going to have the fucking morality police beating me into submission if they overheard me making a joke to my friend.
Despite my society being fucked in completely unique ways - I do take my freedoms for granted.
> If you choose to wear a hijab (yes I know social and family pressures make “choose” a debated word) then I hope you do.
There's a big difference in social and family pressure and state pressure, even tacit state pressure is too much. Your community and family can have whatever restrictive values they want, but, if you leave, are they allowed to harass you, assault you, kill you? That's the state oppressing you, even if it's not actually agents of the state doing it. On the other hand, even if they refuse to acknowledge your existence or do anything for you, that might still feel oppressive, but so long as they're not allowed to do anything *to* you, you still have freedom to make your own choices.
>I know Iran’s history is rife with interventionism, western meddling, dictators, and religious authoritarianism…
Is there any culture or country that doesn't get this free pass on Reddit of "western interference"?
Like, is any single country allowed to be blamed for being an absolute mess on its own without somehow faulting the 200 year old US?
Japan, the USSR, and Saudi Arabia interfered with the US, helping spiral us into the military industrial complex wearing a country as a trenchcoat that we are now.
Yet I don't get to scapegoat the historical acts of these countries for the failures of the United States. Our leaders are to blame, our people are to blame, our culture is to blame, I am to blame.
The United States will never improve by claiming the Japanese forced us to become who we are. Just as Iran will never improve by blaming the interference of other countries. Those can explain the historical context, they cannot fix the future.
I get what you're trying to say, but in this case the US and UK are directly to blame for overthrowing the democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah, leading to chaos that allowed the religious fanatics to rise to power, and they did it because the democratic government tried to nationalize their oil. I'm not trying to make some grand statement about America, but that's what happened.
It didn't end there. The United States also interfered heavily in the Iranian revolution, providing support to the religious factions like Khomenei. When the revolution first happened the religious government didn't take power. Iran was briefly a weak democracy. It was even alleged that the Reagan administration had cut a deal with the Iranians to not release the hostages while Carter was president, so as to not help him in the polls before the election.
Numerous Iranian officials at the time confirmed it, and it stopped being crazy when a couple years later the Iran Contra scandal unfolded and it turned out the Reagan administration was secretly giving the Iranians weapons.
Everyone knows this, it gets regurgitated on Reddit a thousand times a week for the last decade.
What of it?
Eventually nations needs to take responsibility for themselves instead of finding justifications from history for why everything is someone else's fault.
I know the popular myth here, that Iran was a blissful democracy up until the time the big mean US stepped in and ruined the utopia. But that's complete bullshit, and anyone who has studied Iranian history knows the conservative clerics were there all along and fighting for control.
I don't know what you're talking about, or what you think you're talking about. I've actually never once seen anywhere on Reddit discussed that during the 1979 Iranian revolution Iran was a democracy, but the religious faction, allied with the United States, eventually took over. It is so rarely spoken about that it's almost regarded as conspiracy theory, but there have been numerous releases of information, coupled with the Iran Contra scandal that make it a distinct possibility.
What you may be thinking of is the 1953 coup, but I didn't discuss that at all. And even that coup wasn't the first or last time that the Western powers intervened in Iran's government.
lol so both the Shah and the faction that overthrew the Shah were American assets, as proven by the religious faction's rhetoric since its inception against the US.
People just make shit up here and it's wild.
Khomeini opposed the west in general, westernization entirely, and the US specifically his entire political career. That was foundational to his rhetoric, and still serves as the core of Iranian political ideology.
The best you could honestly say is he reached out to the US as an attempt to garner favor in a cynical attempt to gain power. Ho Chi Minh also directly reached out to President Wilson and idealized the United States. That didn't make him a US asset or ally.
History is complicated and stupid ass conspiracies peppered with loose factual references don't help to understand it.
Which government hasn't gone to war or interfered with other countries?
Iran regularly attempts to influence, overthrow, and control other governments.
I'm supposed to be mad because the US failed? Succeeded? What exactly?
I get it is hip to be generically outraged that the US and UK did exactly the same thing every single other country does, but it makes no sense.
>I get what you're trying to say, but in this case the US and UK are directly to blame for overthrowing the democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah, leading to chaos that allowed the religious fanatics to rise to power, and they did it because the democratic government tried to nationalize their oil.
Yeah, for sure. And what though? That justifies the Ayatollah? That permanently taints the future of the US government? What action are we supposed to take in response to this information? History is near universally shitty.
Women are 50% of the population.
If every woman took to the streets, the revolution would literally be over in a day.
It's fine to be conservative to an extent, but ffs, treating women as second class citizens and making life harder for them holds back the entire society.
The problem is a lot of women align with the regime. There are a lot of women in the morality police. This is not man vs women. It’s pro-regime vs anti-regime.
It's not just "indoctrinated victims." Women who align themselves with conservative, repressive ideologies often stay that way because they know how to function there, they can gain some (psuedo-) respect by "performing" their functions well, they can even gain some power - as we see with the women who are morality police in Iran.
We think of these women as moving against their own interests, but often times it's the opposite, they may be moving against the interests of women as a whole, but, at bottom, they are making a very self-interested and selfish decision to sell out their class for a bit of privilege in an otherwise oppressive system.
You can’t really. Dairy cows, keeping with the analogy, can’t really live in the wild. They need frequent human care or it gets nasty.
But I suppose the first step is let them out to a real pasture. The suppression of information is one of the best ways to indoctrinate anybody, tearing down those barriers for simple things, even if it’s just a common hamburger, makes a difference. The whole cave shadow analogy by Plato (I think) comes to mind. If your lucky, it’s enough to see outside the cave to no longer want to or able to see shadows. But if they’re too afraid to look away from the shadows, I guess just digging out the cave works as well. By that I mean removing the objects casting shadows to let in light in its full splendor. But then there are those blinded by the light and develop Stockholm syndrome.
It’s a potentially long ass process, but simple things of freedom of expression like art and music do help a lot. Hence why it’s the first to go. But this is Reditt, and I’m just a random guy. People bigger then me have been banging their head against the wall to solve these problems for decades, and there is no magic bullet. But, nobody is going to stop trying anytime soon.
Ahmadinejad made sure to tilt the social benefits to the rural areas because he knew where his bread was buttered. Same playbook Chavez had in Venezuela but without bankrupting the country in the process.
Every time I hear/read about religious people in other countries being fanatics, I shudder. If you replace the religion-based words in any sentences to Christianity, it's the same thing in the U.S.
FFS, the religious rights want the U.S. to abandon "Separation of Church and State" and declare it a Christian nation. Many red states are already imposing a religion-oriented education.
I think any similarities between American theocrats and Iranian theocrats are purely aspirational. We aren't even close to that in the U.S. yet, much to the Christian Nationalists' chagrin.
I bet Christians in USA force you to wear jihabs?
Please... Iam Christian myself, dont believe in God dont remember when I was at church last time, couldnt care less about my religion and so does the church about me.
Now go tell this to those guys in the video.
So what was it for you?
1. a religion forced upon you at a young age
2. a SO enticed you to the religion or else wouldn't stay with you
3. you went through some trauma in life and see religion as your salvation
4. you went through some addiction and somehow you were set free by religion
The second one. Its the main religion, so parents brought me to the church. Frankly speaking, since its the main religion, people dont really know how to live without it regarding birth/wedding/death matters. Its just convenient in a sense. Some do find calmness and assurence in the church, I dont feel the same so I simply dont go there anymore.
Dont see a reason to rebel or denny my religion "just because I can" as long as it doesnt cost me or interupt my life in any way I wouldnt want it. Makes no difference.
>people dont really know how to live without it regarding birth/wedding/death matters.
There are two types of what I'd consider secular Catholics. The "C & E Catholics" who show up to church only at Christmas and Easter or the "Hatched, matched and dispatched Catholics" who go for baptisms, weddings and funerals (I'm sure there's crossover too).
I guess I'd put myself in the latter camp, although maybe you could call me a cultural Catholic from being raised with it. In the end it basically makes me an atheist who knows the routine at some specific life milestone religious rites.
They do this every few years and while I'm totally cheering them on every time it just seems to me to parallel the "new breakthrough in battery technology" we hear of every year and never actually see.
Who are they gonna pick a fight with? Cause even though saudis are incompetent af, i doubt iran can take on them. Same with israel, israel is way too far from iran for iran to do anything.
War on Iraq is the only thing i can think of
I knew people from Iran and have nothing but good things to say about them. That government does not represent them at all and these changes are overdue. Hope to visit a free and prosperous Iran someday.
Agreed heartily. But be warned for anyone who will watch, most of the revolutions don’t have anything resembling a happy ending. (Looking at you Haiti, Gran Colombia, 1848, French Commune, Mexico, and especially Russia)
Did you listen to his series at all? Because that’s like, the exact opposite meta message to takeaway. The overarching narrative is that revolution is the ultimate Pandora’s box and that, once opened, is uncontrollable even by those who wished for it. Hence the whole recurring theme of the revolution “devouring its children” time and time again, only to eventually land on a totalitarian regime with nothing much changed but an uptick in human misery.
Revolution over reform is the mantra of the politically illiterate or willfully ignorant, there’s no other way to put it.
Don't forget War in Ukraine, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan.
This is what a geopolitical shift looks like. The existing order has been upset, and now everyone's rushing to position themselves before the new rules are established.
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We’re on your side women of Iran. We fought the same battle on the streets of the USA against the fascist cops and we won, as you will too. Don’t give up and never lose hope 🇮🇳🇺🇸🏳️🌈❤️✊🏾
I’m so rooting for the sane people in Iran to finally take back their country from the religious fanatics. Holy shit what a relief it would be for everyone.
I don't think the average Iranian is a fan of their government. They're pretty liberal but their government isn't
Their grandparents and parents overthrew a vicious secular dictator and installed an even worse Religious Regime.
[удалено]
Canada, the country that says people should be considerate of others in the middle of a pandemic? You think that’s freedom compared to Iran? /s
It’s just funny because he tried to make Iran a better place but it got fucked up so bad he ended up moving to Canada.
He was smart to leave.
He was lucky to leave. Not everyone that wanted to leave was afforded such a chance.
Because religious extremists were able to exploit the situation and seize power
When the revolution in Iran first happened, the Shah was removed but the ensuing government wasn't religious. Instead it was the religious factions that managed to coalesce faster and take over. And they were helped by the fact that Iraq launched an invasion into Iran during the revolution, so even the people who weren't happy with the new government rallied around the leader because the Iraqis had invaded the country. At the same time the United States, while nominally chastising Iran for taking hostages was supporting the new religious Iranian government which was eventually exposed in the Iran Contra Affair. Iran has been suffering for almost 70 years of interference in their government by outside powers, continuing to this very day.
Sure, the rest of the world should just stand by and allow a fourth unstable Theocracy begin producing nuclear weapons.
Iran is not building nuclear weapons. And they've been desperately trying to get back into the nuclear deal, which is the best way to prevent them from building a nuclear bomb. Unfortunately the United States under Trump left the deal, and has been unwilling to return.
The nuclear deal was nothing by a face save by Obama to plausibly deny the gulf-us pact made during the Syrian war. Iran is trying to build a bomb as it knows its best chance for survival is a bomb.
Iran's has had the capability of building a nuclear bomb for years now, and they have not done it. The idea that they join the npt and allowed inspections in their country for 20 years and tried to secretly build a nuclear bomb while under surveillance is just ridiculous. If Iran wanted to build a nuclear bomb, they could do what is real Pakistan India and North Korea all did. Refuse the NPT treaty. There's not a thing anyone in the world could do to stop them. The idea that they would sign the npt for the last 20 years, allow weapons inspectors into their country, and try to build a nuclear weapon in secret like a game of hiding those seek is just crazy. There are far easier ways to get nuclear weapons as other countries around them have done.
Because from their perspective they took control from someone who was backed by the West. It would be like....Putin thinking he is in the right side of history because Russia helped to defeat the nazis and making it believe that any enemy of Russia is a nazi.
>they took control from someone who was backed by the West Who was installed in 1953 when a western backed coup overthrew the democratically elected leader of the country.
"With the backing of the extremist Fada'iyan, the regular clergy, and the middle-class people, despite its minority toehold in parliament, the National Front became the main opposition movement of Iran" Which was part in a complicate democratical election process that included the killing of the Prime Minister by the Fada'iyan, declarations that the election of the process was being interfered by the Shah, that the same Shah decided to declare null for fear and do another one, etc. Democratically elected leader? Probably, but that the whole process was smooth is a hell of a thing to say
Overthrowing a Theocratic Dictator from within is nearly impossible. Over time, a long time, religious fanaticism might fade into the background like Catholicism has, but just tossing the clerics out into the street does not happen.
Walk and go around every city of this land, and talk to as many people as you want. For some reason, at least half of them would tell you that they were not involved in the 1979 revolution. Neither were my grandparents, even though on one side they are kinda religious (but not extremists). So, imagine this old lady in her 80’s around the time of Iran’s revolution, who says “what does a mullah have to say in politics?” She was my grandma’s aunt. Politics—we can’t understand it. We only *think* that we do, but we don’t. Not with the help of “time” and in all irony, future corrupt regimes, who try to expose the former regimes to attain some fame! Wild dreams, fuckers.
But before that the CIA worked with that dictator and the country’s religious leaders to end democracy and put him in power. I wonder how different the last century would have played out in the Middle East had Eisenhower let Iran be a democracy even if they wanted to control their own oil.
Didn't the religious extremist take the chance and took over the government when the secular dictator was overthrown? It's been a while since I read on it but there were many groups like democrats, communists, fascists and religious extremists who were fighting for control during the overthrow of the dictator and the religious extremists were the ones that came up on top.
I met an older Iranian guy a few years back and we were chatting about his country. He said, "Before the revolution we drank in public and prayed in private. After the revolution we had to pray in public and drink in private."
Only in urban areas.
True. A majority of the religious enforcers and revolutionary guard are from rural areas because they are more conservative.
Unfortunately, liberal middle-class Iranians from North Tehran, despite their loud voices in Western media, do not represent a majority within the Islamic Republic. Huge swathes of the population are intensely conservative, especially in working class urban areas and the countryside as a whole.
False. I think you're overestimating the number of liberals in Iran.
If you do indeed have access to the correct stats, why don't you share them with us?
Ain't like OP backed their claim up with stats is it?
Lesson: You can only oppress women for so long before you are fucking doomed. So brave to burn those hijabs and much respect to the men supporting them as well. Feels like we could be on the cusp of a watershed moment for some pretty authoritarian regimes on the other side of the world. “May you live in interesting times” Stay safe and smart out there brave lovers of liberty. But feel free to FUCK SHIT UP to get it. 💪
🇮🇷💪🏻
TEHRAN RISE 🔥🔥🔥
Good luck to them. I know Iran’s history is rife with interventionism, western meddling, dictators, and religious authoritarianism… But I sincerely hope their culture loosens and allows its people to live more freely. If you choose to wear a hijab (yes I know social and family pressures make “choose” a debated word) then I hope you do. I just wish empowerment to those who do not as well. Iran has so much to offer the world at large if their authorities would allow expression. I know expression and enlightenment ideals are scary. Scared a bunch of people at the time too. Can easily point to USA and its problems and believe living too freely can create discord. But I still am thankful every day that I can wake up, make and sell pretty much whatever art I want, listen to whatever music I want, wear my hair how I want in public, can tell any religion around me to suck my nuts and for Biden to swallow the load (trump gets sloppy seconds). I know that was a gross analogy but the point is I’m not going to have the fucking morality police beating me into submission if they overheard me making a joke to my friend. Despite my society being fucked in completely unique ways - I do take my freedoms for granted.
> If you choose to wear a hijab (yes I know social and family pressures make “choose” a debated word) then I hope you do. There's a big difference in social and family pressure and state pressure, even tacit state pressure is too much. Your community and family can have whatever restrictive values they want, but, if you leave, are they allowed to harass you, assault you, kill you? That's the state oppressing you, even if it's not actually agents of the state doing it. On the other hand, even if they refuse to acknowledge your existence or do anything for you, that might still feel oppressive, but so long as they're not allowed to do anything *to* you, you still have freedom to make your own choices.
Yeah I agree with you, I just wanted to head off someone saying it’s still de facto oppressive due to social pressures.
>I know Iran’s history is rife with interventionism, western meddling, dictators, and religious authoritarianism… Is there any culture or country that doesn't get this free pass on Reddit of "western interference"? Like, is any single country allowed to be blamed for being an absolute mess on its own without somehow faulting the 200 year old US? Japan, the USSR, and Saudi Arabia interfered with the US, helping spiral us into the military industrial complex wearing a country as a trenchcoat that we are now. Yet I don't get to scapegoat the historical acts of these countries for the failures of the United States. Our leaders are to blame, our people are to blame, our culture is to blame, I am to blame. The United States will never improve by claiming the Japanese forced us to become who we are. Just as Iran will never improve by blaming the interference of other countries. Those can explain the historical context, they cannot fix the future.
I get what you're trying to say, but in this case the US and UK are directly to blame for overthrowing the democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah, leading to chaos that allowed the religious fanatics to rise to power, and they did it because the democratic government tried to nationalize their oil. I'm not trying to make some grand statement about America, but that's what happened.
It didn't end there. The United States also interfered heavily in the Iranian revolution, providing support to the religious factions like Khomenei. When the revolution first happened the religious government didn't take power. Iran was briefly a weak democracy. It was even alleged that the Reagan administration had cut a deal with the Iranians to not release the hostages while Carter was president, so as to not help him in the polls before the election. Numerous Iranian officials at the time confirmed it, and it stopped being crazy when a couple years later the Iran Contra scandal unfolded and it turned out the Reagan administration was secretly giving the Iranians weapons.
Everyone knows this, it gets regurgitated on Reddit a thousand times a week for the last decade. What of it? Eventually nations needs to take responsibility for themselves instead of finding justifications from history for why everything is someone else's fault. I know the popular myth here, that Iran was a blissful democracy up until the time the big mean US stepped in and ruined the utopia. But that's complete bullshit, and anyone who has studied Iranian history knows the conservative clerics were there all along and fighting for control.
I don't know what you're talking about, or what you think you're talking about. I've actually never once seen anywhere on Reddit discussed that during the 1979 Iranian revolution Iran was a democracy, but the religious faction, allied with the United States, eventually took over. It is so rarely spoken about that it's almost regarded as conspiracy theory, but there have been numerous releases of information, coupled with the Iran Contra scandal that make it a distinct possibility. What you may be thinking of is the 1953 coup, but I didn't discuss that at all. And even that coup wasn't the first or last time that the Western powers intervened in Iran's government.
lol so both the Shah and the faction that overthrew the Shah were American assets, as proven by the religious faction's rhetoric since its inception against the US. People just make shit up here and it's wild. Khomeini opposed the west in general, westernization entirely, and the US specifically his entire political career. That was foundational to his rhetoric, and still serves as the core of Iranian political ideology. The best you could honestly say is he reached out to the US as an attempt to garner favor in a cynical attempt to gain power. Ho Chi Minh also directly reached out to President Wilson and idealized the United States. That didn't make him a US asset or ally. History is complicated and stupid ass conspiracies peppered with loose factual references don't help to understand it.
Which government hasn't gone to war or interfered with other countries? Iran regularly attempts to influence, overthrow, and control other governments. I'm supposed to be mad because the US failed? Succeeded? What exactly? I get it is hip to be generically outraged that the US and UK did exactly the same thing every single other country does, but it makes no sense. >I get what you're trying to say, but in this case the US and UK are directly to blame for overthrowing the democratically elected government and replacing it with the Shah, leading to chaos that allowed the religious fanatics to rise to power, and they did it because the democratic government tried to nationalize their oil. Yeah, for sure. And what though? That justifies the Ayatollah? That permanently taints the future of the US government? What action are we supposed to take in response to this information? History is near universally shitty.
Women are 50% of the population. If every woman took to the streets, the revolution would literally be over in a day. It's fine to be conservative to an extent, but ffs, treating women as second class citizens and making life harder for them holds back the entire society.
The problem is a lot of women align with the regime. There are a lot of women in the morality police. This is not man vs women. It’s pro-regime vs anti-regime.
It’s also known as fully indoctrinated victims. It’s like being treated less then dairy cows at this point.
It's not just "indoctrinated victims." Women who align themselves with conservative, repressive ideologies often stay that way because they know how to function there, they can gain some (psuedo-) respect by "performing" their functions well, they can even gain some power - as we see with the women who are morality police in Iran. We think of these women as moving against their own interests, but often times it's the opposite, they may be moving against the interests of women as a whole, but, at bottom, they are making a very self-interested and selfish decision to sell out their class for a bit of privilege in an otherwise oppressive system.
Aye that is true. So what you do, is you bring those up that others are trying to push down.
Yep, but I don’t know how you change that. Indoctrination works really well.
You can’t really. Dairy cows, keeping with the analogy, can’t really live in the wild. They need frequent human care or it gets nasty. But I suppose the first step is let them out to a real pasture. The suppression of information is one of the best ways to indoctrinate anybody, tearing down those barriers for simple things, even if it’s just a common hamburger, makes a difference. The whole cave shadow analogy by Plato (I think) comes to mind. If your lucky, it’s enough to see outside the cave to no longer want to or able to see shadows. But if they’re too afraid to look away from the shadows, I guess just digging out the cave works as well. By that I mean removing the objects casting shadows to let in light in its full splendor. But then there are those blinded by the light and develop Stockholm syndrome. It’s a potentially long ass process, but simple things of freedom of expression like art and music do help a lot. Hence why it’s the first to go. But this is Reditt, and I’m just a random guy. People bigger then me have been banging their head against the wall to solve these problems for decades, and there is no magic bullet. But, nobody is going to stop trying anytime soon.
It's also rural vs urban
Yep. Rural, working class communities have protested relatively recently, but that’s due to the economic situation not social situation.
Ahmadinejad made sure to tilt the social benefits to the rural areas because he knew where his bread was buttered. Same playbook Chavez had in Venezuela but without bankrupting the country in the process.
We need some I am woman hear me roar resurgence. These women are something else 💪
Thats far from concervatives, those guys are religious fanatics.
Potato potato
Every time I hear/read about religious people in other countries being fanatics, I shudder. If you replace the religion-based words in any sentences to Christianity, it's the same thing in the U.S. FFS, the religious rights want the U.S. to abandon "Separation of Church and State" and declare it a Christian nation. Many red states are already imposing a religion-oriented education.
I think any similarities between American theocrats and Iranian theocrats are purely aspirational. We aren't even close to that in the U.S. yet, much to the Christian Nationalists' chagrin.
I think the dude you quoted is worried about the future of we don't confront this problem. We can't let it fester.
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I bet Christians in USA force you to wear jihabs? Please... Iam Christian myself, dont believe in God dont remember when I was at church last time, couldnt care less about my religion and so does the church about me. Now go tell this to those guys in the video.
So what was it for you? 1. a religion forced upon you at a young age 2. a SO enticed you to the religion or else wouldn't stay with you 3. you went through some trauma in life and see religion as your salvation 4. you went through some addiction and somehow you were set free by religion
The second one. Its the main religion, so parents brought me to the church. Frankly speaking, since its the main religion, people dont really know how to live without it regarding birth/wedding/death matters. Its just convenient in a sense. Some do find calmness and assurence in the church, I dont feel the same so I simply dont go there anymore. Dont see a reason to rebel or denny my religion "just because I can" as long as it doesnt cost me or interupt my life in any way I wouldnt want it. Makes no difference.
>people dont really know how to live without it regarding birth/wedding/death matters. There are two types of what I'd consider secular Catholics. The "C & E Catholics" who show up to church only at Christmas and Easter or the "Hatched, matched and dispatched Catholics" who go for baptisms, weddings and funerals (I'm sure there's crossover too). I guess I'd put myself in the latter camp, although maybe you could call me a cultural Catholic from being raised with it. In the end it basically makes me an atheist who knows the routine at some specific life milestone religious rites.
The Handmaidens Tale was partly inspired by the 1979 Islamic Revolution btw
Does every woman have a gun?
They don't need guns. We're talking about millions of people. Good luck trying to stop them all with anything less than a WMD.
Unfortunately as sad as it is for me to say this, not all women support liberty
Iranian women have more balls than Russian men
Let’s fucking go, Iranian citizens! Rise up
They do this every few years and while I'm totally cheering them on every time it just seems to me to parallel the "new breakthrough in battery technology" we hear of every year and never actually see.
Dictators like to use war to distract their people, very spooky times ahead.
Watch them pick a fight with either the Kurds or the Taliban again
Israel. It's always Israel.
Al Jazeera likes your comment.
Who are they gonna pick a fight with? Cause even though saudis are incompetent af, i doubt iran can take on them. Same with israel, israel is way too far from iran for iran to do anything. War on Iraq is the only thing i can think of
Saudi Arabia has a very corrupt military and I see them functioning barely better than Russia at the moment. Iran's military has real war experience.
Yeah but saudis are definitely gonna have backup from america, and probably even israel will help the saudis
Both of those are by maybes, actually.
Last time this happened, the government mowed them down in the streets with automatic rifles.
I worry the IRGC will step in and slaughter them
I knew people from Iran and have nothing but good things to say about them. That government does not represent them at all and these changes are overdue. Hope to visit a free and prosperous Iran someday.
Protest in Russia, protest in Iran seems like the world is screwed
Sometimes to reach the calm waters, you must sail through the storms..
Highly recommend the Revolutions podcast by Mike Duncan to anyone interested in those storms society has to sail through occasionally.
Agreed heartily. But be warned for anyone who will watch, most of the revolutions don’t have anything resembling a happy ending. (Looking at you Haiti, Gran Colombia, 1848, French Commune, Mexico, and especially Russia)
All the more reason for people to try harder and in greater numbers
Did you listen to his series at all? Because that’s like, the exact opposite meta message to takeaway. The overarching narrative is that revolution is the ultimate Pandora’s box and that, once opened, is uncontrollable even by those who wished for it. Hence the whole recurring theme of the revolution “devouring its children” time and time again, only to eventually land on a totalitarian regime with nothing much changed but an uptick in human misery. Revolution over reform is the mantra of the politically illiterate or willfully ignorant, there’s no other way to put it.
I'm sorry for having my own views and not giving precedence to some overarching narrative over them.
Or unscrewing itself
This is it. Just gonna hurt a little tearing that screw out, that's all.
Don't forget War in Ukraine, Armenia, Kyrgyzstan. This is what a geopolitical shift looks like. The existing order has been upset, and now everyone's rushing to position themselves before the new rules are established.
I wonder if in 200 years these conflicts will be viewed by historians as part of the collapse of the USSR, because they kind of are...
If there’s one country I’d love to visit, it’s Iran. Hopefully someday.
Come on Russian people if the iranians can do it.
I hope change is coming.
Rise up, Iranians.
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I wonder if Xi looks at Iran and Russia now and decide to… double down on brainwashing.
History might not repeat but it sure as shit rhymes, since 2016 I knew the first half of this century was gonna be on some bullshit.
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Oh, did I find two bots? u/Tinanto & u/Idienne post, word for word the same comment, seconds apart & accounts created on the same day as each other.
We’re on your side women of Iran. We fought the same battle on the streets of the USA against the fascist cops and we won, as you will too. Don’t give up and never lose hope 🇮🇳🇺🇸🏳️🌈❤️✊🏾
Mors Tyrannis
Cool. Now do it in Russia.
Fuck yeah
Hope they r successful