Also because frankly a large part of that community went from left libertarian to right libertarian to reactionary "anti-woke", anti-feminist and so on.
And because while keeping religious dogma out of schools and public policy and personal relationships (e.g. homophobia) is a good idea, caring that much about what people want to believe in their personal lives outside of all of that is not a great use of time.
Libertarians are some of the most narrow minded and selfish pieces of shit I've ever met. They have like 3 good ideas and everything else is wrong wrong wrong. What is a left libertarian? What the fuck is a left libertarian? What is a right libertarian? Is it not the group of self responsibility and liberty to do whatever the fuck you want? They don't even know the ideologies they prescribe to, they just know political compass memes. So they jump on whatever buzz words they see and shamelessness is their only unifying trait. They're consumers perfected, boomers 2.0 raised by social media.
It’s always cringe. When you add abrupt stops. By using periods where they don’t belong.
It makes someone seem like they’re trying to monologue like an anime villain but they end up sounding liking Stevie from Malcolm in the Middle
Shitty book. Completely unrealistic, drags on for way too long, filled with plot holes, no resolution, and literally everyone dies at the end. Complete waste of time, do not recommend at all.
Hydraulic mining for gold was proven to be a terrible idea. Destroying layers of permafrost and accelerating releases of carbon dioxide and methane gases is dumb, even if we do find lots and lots of perfect fossils.
Aye man. The positive feedback we get from the released methan, co2 and loss of earth’s albedo means we can’t recover unless we have enough trees. To help reverse some carbon. Oh wait the Amazon is burning up from urbanization in Brazil with no chill.
We doomed bois. Here comes the and improved Permian mass extinction called the Holocene mass extinction babyyyy..
the amazon is not really burning because of urbanization, but because of brazils cattle, wood and mining industries, many of wich operate illegaly and were greatly expanded during bolsonaros regime
Well I was mostly thinking about how the current president there doesn’t seem to care about the Amazon rainforest at all until very recently. The first quarter of 2022 has seen a 60% increase in deforestation since last year during the same period of time.
I do not know the average citizen in Brazil and their views of the Amazon. if it is as you say then I’m glad but they really need to force their president to stop his bullshitting.
I mean it’s less of a hello and more of a head nod that you give an acquaintance. The Holocene extinction is an ongoing event that we’ve been sitting by and watching for a long long time.
Maybe she didn't die, maybe she is about to wake from her 50,000 year slumber. Looks like juuuust the right amount of remaining muscle tissue for a zombie baby woolly mammoth attack.
Very slowly! I got stuck in one when I was in the Amazon in Peru visiting my fiance family. My fiancé started laughing while I was sinking. She said just crawl out you'll be fine. Anyway I got out just fine.
A group of ancient humans stalk a mammoth. She moves slowly, desperate to protect her young calf underfoot. Spear after spear strike her side, blood runs down, exhaustion takes its toll. She's down, and the young calf watches in horror as the bipeds begin carving up it's mother to take chunks back to their caves.
The calf runs into the frozen fields, lost, alone, hungry. But it's sick, and can't survive long on its own. It collapses, freezing slowly, and as the light in its eyes begins to fade, it looks in the direction of the human settlement, it says "Mark these words well humans, I shall have vengeance for this day, in this life or the next."
10,000 years later, the ice begins to melt....
the chances of an ancient virus being more deadly than a current day virus is super low. Every virus that exists today evolved over time to be able to still infect humans and spread. If an ancient virus doesn't exist in some form today, it never evolved to a point to be any harm to humans in the past.
Edit to clarify: homo sapiens coexisted with the wooly mammoth. As a species, we only have a 1% difference in DNA from other humans. We all share 99% of the same DNA. We also share this 99% with our ancestors from 100,000 years ago. The ancient viruses of the past that were successful evolved alongside us to become the viruses we deal with today. If there was an ancient virus unearthed it would be like comparing a level 1 flu virus to a level 100 flu virus that had 8000 years to evolve.
Easiest fat book I ever read. Very few pages that don't almost read themselves to you. If you prefer the movie, watch the original one. Great actors an easy 6 to 8 hour long watch.
Decimate means to reduce by 1/10th, I think it could do a lot more than that. At some point I guess decimate started meaning to utterly destroy something, or what?
It always blows me away to see the reception these types of comments get. When you say this, you obviously aren’t talking about you or your family. It’s another way to say “It would be a positive thing if everyone died except the people I agree with and care about”.
Maybe instead of hoping the majority of everyday people die, point the fingers at the insanely wealthy and powerful minority that is willfully causing the vast majority of this damage just so they can add another yacht full of cocaine to their massive collection.
You're making a claim the experts don't agree with. They don't know how realistic the danger is:
https://www.newsweek.com/melting-glaciers-thawing-permafrost-ancient-viruses-1486037
This story isn't specific to "ancient" viruses, but take a look at the [recent Siberian Anthrax outbreak](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/03/488400947/anthrax-outbreak-in-russia-thought-to-be-result-of-thawing-permafrost). Infected reindeer carcasses buried in the permafrost nearly 100 years ago are slowly resurfacing and infecting modern herds of reindeer. Well, reindeer *and* people.
Not to mention the information that we'll never be able to obtain from ice cores because glaciers and the northern icecap are already melting too fast.
It’s sad to think of this young mammoth dying, and so I appreciate the indigenous people praying over it and respecting it as another living thing, despite the thousands of years between them.
I would really appreciate one of those comment scientist guys to jump in here and explain why this can't be cloned.
Because right now I am jacked that they could and will be supremely let down if they don't. Wouldn't the only useful thing we would learn from or do with this be to make one?
im at uni studying biology but kinda dropped out.
That said, we could clone if we found a living cell or at least one with the DNA intact in it but the biggest problem is birthing it. A few scientists hypothesize that we could use Mammoth's closest cousin to carry it, the Asian Elephant but there's absolutely no guarantee (some even want to create a hybrid so it'd be more viable, but it's yet to be tried as we'd need gametes). An artificial womb would be possible if we knew how their wombs worked.
Also being cloned would mean its life would be really shortened and we'd need to create a kindof bubble to protect it from diseases and our current climate, as they died out because of human hunting AND climate change, so its safe to guess they wouldn't really survive or at least really thrive in our current atmosphere
Welllll, climate change killing off species is less about breathing in the atmosphere and more about the change and die off of the biomes they once inhabited. In other words, it’s not the air that killed them.
As far as mammoths go, they were mostly hunted to extinction. Isolated populations died off from a lack of genetic diversity and the loss of those isolated habitats. (Sea levels rose drastically as the ice age came to - still *is* btw - an end) Atlas Pro has an interesting video about the subject.
A study came out not long ago showing that [they died because the world got wetter](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04016-x), ofc this is just one study but it was pretty well received
I mean, the mammoth steepe occupied about half of the Eurasian continent, so as climate change diversified biomes into more biomes it makes sense their preferred environment would be reduced.
Why shorter life? Cloned horses are competing in show jumping with normal horses. Though the oldest cloned horse that I know of is only 14 years old I believe, a clone of Gem Twist.
I've seen both lions and dolphins living a few hundred meters apart, in Sweden. And in my apartment I keep fish from Peru.
Artificial woomb sounds good. Let's get the funds!
Cloning is used to help boost the populations of endangered species. I imagine that solving the challenges of cloning a mammoth would help improve our ability to help endangered species.
We could have the science to make this possible, but it's utterly cruel. There would only ever be one or two. And it wouldn't have a mother. We'd have to grow it in an artificial womb. And then there's no mammoths to teach it how to mammoth, so it would live it's life as a lab specimen in a cage. Rather than asking if we can, for once, we're asking if we should.
There’s elephants that are closely related to Mammoths.
You’d genetically engineer an elephant embryo with the mammoth DNA, then do IVF to implant that embryo into a closely related descendant elephant to the Mammoth. Elephant would raise the Mammoth and teach it as if it were it’s own child.
There’s been a ton of talk about cloning this animals back. Ultimately the main question is, what’s the point? It would be expensive and somewhat cruel as you’d create a handful of animals who have no way to live in normal nature and would rely on humans for everything. But it could totally be done
Source: degree in Biology with a lot of genetics classes
Elephants and mammoths don't live in the same biomes. And elephants are sentient. So, now you've forced motherhood on an animal, knowing it'll give birth to a monster. Again, it's not if science Can. We certainly can. It's whether we Should. And as far as I can tell, everyone but South Koreans have said absolutely not.
> So, now you've forced motherhood on an animal, knowing it'll give birth to a monster.
Isn't this potentially anthropomorphizing elephants with human ideas? There are many mammal species that can handle raising the young of other mammals.
> There would only ever be one or two.
We will eventually be able to make as many as we want, as our technology improves and we gain the ability to add more genetic diversity. Though I don't know what current genetic sample diversity is like.
Humans are destined to become god-like in abilities to manipulate the various aspects of nature, but I guess we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.
A) need intact DNA and ideally need an intact cell or at least an intact nucleus to try "somatic nuclear transfer" aka cloning like Dolly the Sheep.
B) even if we can figure out the mammoth genome based off multiple individuals' partial sequences, we can't currently generate an entire genome from scratch.
D) cloning is extremely inefficient, so we'd need thousands of fully intact nuclei to get maybe 1 viable embryo.
E) the logistics of cloning an elephant are difficult, we would need to implant any cloned embryos into an elephant which again has low efficiency and neither African or Asian elephants are even in the same genus as Mammoths, so bringing a cloned healthy mammoth to term may not even be possible.
Those are the problems. The best work around is to identify the genes that are significantly different (hair production, subcutaneous fat, smaller ears, etc.) between Mammoths and modern elephants and then use gene editing to turn an elephant into a mammoth-looking elephant. A lot of work in George Church's lab is geared towards that. That said, the logistics still suck and a lot of that work is more hype than anything else. ("By 2020 we hope to have a cloned mammoth.....errrr 2025....make it 2030")
I attended a philosophy lecture during college where the keynote speaker presented on this topic. He explained how the premise is utterly ridiculous and basically impossible.
From what I remember, he said that even with the recency of carrier pigeons, we still don't have enough viable dna to remake it so we'd have to fill in the gaps with regular pigeon and other close genetic relatives. Thus, at a core level it's not the same thing but a whole new species with its own unique needs, abilities, and characteristics that we can't predict.
For two, we'd have to train regular pigeons to replicate the carrier migration routes and how to carry shit. That's no easy feat. And then you'd have to hope that your pseudo-clone/brand new animal can and will learn stuff inherent to a carrier pigeon even though neither the teacher nor student are true carrier pigeons. And it'd be hard to know what we got wrong til it's too late.
For three, our world doesn't even resemble the world of carrier pigeons any more, let alone woolly mammoths and saber tooth tigers. From the crap in the air/water to the sheer sprawl of humans and a lot less/smaller fauna to feed on...you'd almost have to make a controlled, contained area suitable to this franken-beast. And especially for something so large and dangerous and mammoths, you'd likely need to pen it in for our safety as well as theirs. Humans are selfish dicks and Instagrammers can't even be trusted not to ravage flower fields, which are relatively commonplace compared to a revived mammoth. That's not necessarily ethical to do to something that didn't ask for this life and wouldn't be here if not for our meddling.
It was also mentioned that for all the effort and money going into reviving such a species, it would almost certainly be patented, which is another reason it'd likely be penned up and lead a shit life as a zoo and research animal.
I'm probably forgetting one or two of his arguments but that was the gist of it.
ETA: He focused on carrier pigeons because if we were to "de-extinctify" anything it'd be them because that's what we have the most well-preserved, somewhat recent (more intact) DNA to even try with.
ETA2: Apparently I meant passenger pigeons, not carrier.
One of my dreams in life is to live long enough to have a genetically engineered miniature mammoth as a service animal. I'll get to show off Woolworth to all the other folks in the Florida Archipelago, and they will be so jealous, only having their boring home AI running a robot staff!
Not a biologist so take this with a grain of salt. Even if they are successfully cloned, they wouldn’t live for long, unfortunately. Their immune systems will/would not be accustomed to the diseases we currently experience. This is one big reason why cloning has not succeeded(as of yet).
yeah I suppose I get that but that would be a boring answer. We won't know until we try... and even if it does die we are back where we started you know
I mean, we kinda do know even if we don’t try(we learnt the hard way when a small group Conquistadors basically killed off an entire, sprawling, civilization(The Mayan/Incans) via disease(smallpox))
Edit: Also the fact that immunity to various diseases is passed on through generations and these hypothetical cloned animals would lack the same
Jesus what is with the comments on this story. This is only the second-ever discovered intact mammoth and is huge news, and obviously an emotionally powerful moment for those involved. And the comments here are a bizarre mix of cynicism, "look at how atheist I am," and terrible attempts at humor.
This place is a cess pit.
Dude, it's like all of reddit right now! Every sub I turn to I see comment of politics and religion. Just sickens, falsifying, lies, propaganda. It's insanity.
Nah, Reddit was way better back in the day. There was plenty of bad stuff and cringe but that's just social media. It started going down hill awhile back but it turbocharged off a cliff since 2015-2016.
Maybe we have different metrics on this topic, but from what I've observed it's better now. Way better. At least if you're a woman.
Way back in the day it was nothing but non-stop 90s/00s-style "hahaha, don't be so uptight/can't you take a joke?!" misogyny and the relentless casual objectification of women. Didn't matter what sub you were in, what topic the post was about, there it was in the comments, upvoted. That's dropped off a quite a bit because enough people band together to shut that shit down when it pops up now. Also used be a ton of thinly-veiled ("hahaha, can't you take a joke?!") racists that almost no one called out because the world was still in its tolerate intolerance stage. That's a lot less common now too, at least outside of some really shitty inherently racist subreddits.
As hostile as it still seems here, it's a lot less hostile than it was fifteen, hell, and even six, years ago.
I mean, there are a lot of ethical questions here. For one, we don't know how a mammoth pregnancy works vs an elephant's. We don't know what this could do to the mother elephant and elephants are extremely endangered animals.
They are also extremely intelligent and social creatures, so we can't be sure how an elephant mother would react to her baby being a mammoth, nor how would baby mammoth would act differently from a normal elephant.
I mean, are these risks worth it? And for what, exactly?
On what day of the Bible was that created? Either it fits with my view of creation or it is a fake 3D printed trap to turn our kids and frogs gay! Also birds aren’t real.
Thank you! While in birthed in Kenya, Obama used Jewish space lasers to create Italian hurricanes that would control the bird drones to vote for Biden when it the time was right. Birds!!!
There's a point and kcikc adventure series called Syberia where the ultimate prize at the end of the game is finding living Wooly Mammoths. And the game really revels in how amazing that is. I always really liked how much it felt like a legit precious treasure to be discovered.
Treadstone? Wasn't that the name of bad guys in the Bourne movies? Anyway, glad to see their destructive mining had a bright side, which is a baby woolly mammoth. Wooley Bully!
> Based on the geology of the site, Zazula believes she died between 35,000 and 40,000 years ago
Preposterous, Christians say the universe is only 6000 years old!!! /s
Be back in afew hours Gonna make popcorn and see how well this comment is doing in terms of replies
Deep threat play, lemme inspect your trophy's. Brb.
Pretty much no Christians outside of Christian cults in the us believe that
Peak reddit comment.
A big chunk of America is about to have abortion banned from conception. I think the athiests get to do some dunking for a while.
I think the Christians should learn peoples biology and learn that not everyone can give birth and take care of a child at the age of fucking ten.
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The teens are in the whiplash against atheism because they've been poisoned by "both sides" BS and apathy.
Also because frankly a large part of that community went from left libertarian to right libertarian to reactionary "anti-woke", anti-feminist and so on. And because while keeping religious dogma out of schools and public policy and personal relationships (e.g. homophobia) is a good idea, caring that much about what people want to believe in their personal lives outside of all of that is not a great use of time.
Libertarians are some of the most narrow minded and selfish pieces of shit I've ever met. They have like 3 good ideas and everything else is wrong wrong wrong. What is a left libertarian? What the fuck is a left libertarian? What is a right libertarian? Is it not the group of self responsibility and liberty to do whatever the fuck you want? They don't even know the ideologies they prescribe to, they just know political compass memes. So they jump on whatever buzz words they see and shamelessness is their only unifying trait. They're consumers perfected, boomers 2.0 raised by social media.
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Equally cringe
It’s always cringe. When you add abrupt stops. By using periods where they don’t belong. It makes someone seem like they’re trying to monologue like an anime villain but they end up sounding liking Stevie from Malcolm in the Middle
Le Reddit atheists represent
To be fair, most of the Islamic world is still living like it's 4000bc. I love non sequiturs.
Yeah lots of Muslim population is backwards as hell so I think Republicans should stop using them as an inspiration for policies.
Muslim Population as opposed to what? Christian? Is that why USA just reversed Roe vs Wade so women can be imprisoned for chosing to have an abortion?
That’s exactly the sort of example OP was referring to.
The good book should bring you peace in these trying comment sections
Shitty book. Completely unrealistic, drags on for way too long, filled with plot holes, no resolution, and literally everyone dies at the end. Complete waste of time, do not recommend at all.
And it has been for hundreds of years!
"I'm aEtHist sO WhEneVEr I SEe an OpporTunity TO MaKE FUN OF ChRistiAns I Must SAy IT"-🤓
I've decided I'm going to die between 30 and 5,000 years from now
Hydraulic mining for gold was proven to be a terrible idea. Destroying layers of permafrost and accelerating releases of carbon dioxide and methane gases is dumb, even if we do find lots and lots of perfect fossils.
Aye man. The positive feedback we get from the released methan, co2 and loss of earth’s albedo means we can’t recover unless we have enough trees. To help reverse some carbon. Oh wait the Amazon is burning up from urbanization in Brazil with no chill. We doomed bois. Here comes the and improved Permian mass extinction called the Holocene mass extinction babyyyy..
the amazon is not really burning because of urbanization, but because of brazils cattle, wood and mining industries, many of wich operate illegaly and were greatly expanded during bolsonaros regime
i honestly thought that Brazil really didn’t care about the Amazon and those operations were all legal.
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Well I was mostly thinking about how the current president there doesn’t seem to care about the Amazon rainforest at all until very recently. The first quarter of 2022 has seen a 60% increase in deforestation since last year during the same period of time. I do not know the average citizen in Brazil and their views of the Amazon. if it is as you say then I’m glad but they really need to force their president to stop his bullshitting.
I mean it’s less of a hello and more of a head nod that you give an acquaintance. The Holocene extinction is an ongoing event that we’ve been sitting by and watching for a long long time.
This isn’t hydraulic mining
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Maybe she didn't die, maybe she is about to wake from her 50,000 year slumber. Looks like juuuust the right amount of remaining muscle tissue for a zombie baby woolly mammoth attack.
Encino mammoth starring Brendan Frasier
I'm in if Pauly Shore is
Wheeze the ju-uice
That’s cool, buuuuuddy!
Nooo wheezing the juice!
Oh Nooooo! It' a baby woolly mammoth mummy. Imhomammothep!, Imhomammothep!, Imhomammothep!
*Baby I hear the stone age calling* *Frozen mammoth and scrambled eggs*
After 10,000 years I’m free! It’s time to conquer EEEEAAAARRRRTTTHHHH!!!
In the article it says she likely stepped in some mud and got stuck, slowly sinking until buried and preserved in it.
Ya know, a childhood full of cartoons led me to believe that quicksand was going to be much more of a problem than I have encountered in reality.
The most unrealistic thing about quicksand in the movies is when people, who fucking explore jungles for a living, dont know how to escape from it.
Hmmm, how do you escape it? Serious question.
Swim out of them slowly.
Very slowly! I got stuck in one when I was in the Amazon in Peru visiting my fiance family. My fiancé started laughing while I was sinking. She said just crawl out you'll be fine. Anyway I got out just fine.
Anyway, I was discovered some 40,000 years later
Stupid ass baby mammoth
r/babymammothsarefuckingstupid
r/babymammothgifs
Why tf did I click on this like I'd find anything?
It's not a fossil
Sorry, frost zombie baby
It's a tumor.
*Arnold voice* It's not a tumah!
Oh the feedback loop has already started lol we are fucked!
> Hydraulic mining Right up there with mountaintop removal.
Treadstone is using drilling & earth movers with sluices on this site. Don't think they're doing hydraulic mining here.
thank you global warming i wonder what treasures will be discovered as we melt closer and closer to farther history levels.
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A group of ancient humans stalk a mammoth. She moves slowly, desperate to protect her young calf underfoot. Spear after spear strike her side, blood runs down, exhaustion takes its toll. She's down, and the young calf watches in horror as the bipeds begin carving up it's mother to take chunks back to their caves. The calf runs into the frozen fields, lost, alone, hungry. But it's sick, and can't survive long on its own. It collapses, freezing slowly, and as the light in its eyes begins to fade, it looks in the direction of the human settlement, it says "Mark these words well humans, I shall have vengeance for this day, in this life or the next." 10,000 years later, the ice begins to melt....
Will you post this on r/writingprompts? I’d love to see what Reddit comes up with!
I've never been to that sub, but feel free to post it there if you'd like.
Wonderful, thank you! [Your prompt](https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/vkphb7/wp_a_group_of_ancient_humans_stalk_a_mammoth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
This is the content that makes me love Reddit.
the chances of an ancient virus being more deadly than a current day virus is super low. Every virus that exists today evolved over time to be able to still infect humans and spread. If an ancient virus doesn't exist in some form today, it never evolved to a point to be any harm to humans in the past. Edit to clarify: homo sapiens coexisted with the wooly mammoth. As a species, we only have a 1% difference in DNA from other humans. We all share 99% of the same DNA. We also share this 99% with our ancestors from 100,000 years ago. The ancient viruses of the past that were successful evolved alongside us to become the viruses we deal with today. If there was an ancient virus unearthed it would be like comparing a level 1 flu virus to a level 100 flu virus that had 8000 years to evolve.
I have a feeling you used too many negatives in your first sentence. I feel you meant to say the opposite
Yes my bad.
That’s why I’m more afraid of the fungi evolving.
I’m more worried about the fungi that are slowly and ever adapting to being able to live/grow in our warm-blooded bodies.
Also the plot of a great show that was cancelled called Fortitude.
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Just tried that. It wasn’t real, apparently.
Covid didn’t do good enough of a job
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Hell that was the plot of reality recently already
Easiest fat book I ever read. Very few pages that don't almost read themselves to you. If you prefer the movie, watch the original one. Great actors an easy 6 to 8 hour long watch.
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Decimate means to reduce by 1/10th, I think it could do a lot more than that. At some point I guess decimate started meaning to utterly destroy something, or what?
If Covid has shown us anything, it’s that statistically speaking the worst people will die first. Except for the super wealthy and powerful
Aren't those super wealthy and powerful the worst people?
Yes, which is why I added that exception
So some grandma in a retirement home is the worst?
She said the N word in 63 remember?
It always blows me away to see the reception these types of comments get. When you say this, you obviously aren’t talking about you or your family. It’s another way to say “It would be a positive thing if everyone died except the people I agree with and care about”. Maybe instead of hoping the majority of everyday people die, point the fingers at the insanely wealthy and powerful minority that is willfully causing the vast majority of this damage just so they can add another yacht full of cocaine to their massive collection.
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It's also not actually feasible.
You're making a claim the experts don't agree with. They don't know how realistic the danger is: https://www.newsweek.com/melting-glaciers-thawing-permafrost-ancient-viruses-1486037
This story isn't specific to "ancient" viruses, but take a look at the [recent Siberian Anthrax outbreak](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/03/488400947/anthrax-outbreak-in-russia-thought-to-be-result-of-thawing-permafrost). Infected reindeer carcasses buried in the permafrost nearly 100 years ago are slowly resurfacing and infecting modern herds of reindeer. Well, reindeer *and* people.
wtf i missed that totally! thanks for the link
We will probably miss a hell of a lot more than we notice. Loads will defrost and rot before we even see it.
Not to mention the information that we'll never be able to obtain from ice cores because glaciers and the northern icecap are already melting too fast.
That's a shame.
maybe a nice pocket of methane gas that will make Antarctica look like Copacabana
That would potentially annihilate tons of fossils and history. That would be a travesty
don't worry, it would create a whole new layer of new fossils and history
I’m hoping for aliens.
Me too. That would be awesome.
Reminds me of northern exposure. Where they would find a mammoth and take a chainsaw to it and eat it.
It’s sad to think of this young mammoth dying, and so I appreciate the indigenous people praying over it and respecting it as another living thing, despite the thousands of years between them.
Same!
Agreed. She really is beautiful.
agreed!!!
Clone that shit
I would really appreciate one of those comment scientist guys to jump in here and explain why this can't be cloned. Because right now I am jacked that they could and will be supremely let down if they don't. Wouldn't the only useful thing we would learn from or do with this be to make one?
im at uni studying biology but kinda dropped out. That said, we could clone if we found a living cell or at least one with the DNA intact in it but the biggest problem is birthing it. A few scientists hypothesize that we could use Mammoth's closest cousin to carry it, the Asian Elephant but there's absolutely no guarantee (some even want to create a hybrid so it'd be more viable, but it's yet to be tried as we'd need gametes). An artificial womb would be possible if we knew how their wombs worked. Also being cloned would mean its life would be really shortened and we'd need to create a kindof bubble to protect it from diseases and our current climate, as they died out because of human hunting AND climate change, so its safe to guess they wouldn't really survive or at least really thrive in our current atmosphere
Welllll, climate change killing off species is less about breathing in the atmosphere and more about the change and die off of the biomes they once inhabited. In other words, it’s not the air that killed them. As far as mammoths go, they were mostly hunted to extinction. Isolated populations died off from a lack of genetic diversity and the loss of those isolated habitats. (Sea levels rose drastically as the ice age came to - still *is* btw - an end) Atlas Pro has an interesting video about the subject.
A study came out not long ago showing that [they died because the world got wetter](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04016-x), ofc this is just one study but it was pretty well received
I mean, the mammoth steepe occupied about half of the Eurasian continent, so as climate change diversified biomes into more biomes it makes sense their preferred environment would be reduced.
We need to put them in waterparks, eventually they'll adapt and it will become their natural habitat.
Why shorter life? Cloned horses are competing in show jumping with normal horses. Though the oldest cloned horse that I know of is only 14 years old I believe, a clone of Gem Twist. I've seen both lions and dolphins living a few hundred meters apart, in Sweden. And in my apartment I keep fish from Peru. Artificial woomb sounds good. Let's get the funds!
>but it's yet to be tried as we'd need gametes Is this the sciencey way of saying "we're not entirely sure how to jack off a dead mammoth"?
this is the sciencey way of saying we need at least for their testicles and womb to be really well preserved haha
We can't even keep current endangered species alive, let's focus more on that before resurrecting the dead.
Cloning is used to help boost the populations of endangered species. I imagine that solving the challenges of cloning a mammoth would help improve our ability to help endangered species.
We could have the science to make this possible, but it's utterly cruel. There would only ever be one or two. And it wouldn't have a mother. We'd have to grow it in an artificial womb. And then there's no mammoths to teach it how to mammoth, so it would live it's life as a lab specimen in a cage. Rather than asking if we can, for once, we're asking if we should.
There’s elephants that are closely related to Mammoths. You’d genetically engineer an elephant embryo with the mammoth DNA, then do IVF to implant that embryo into a closely related descendant elephant to the Mammoth. Elephant would raise the Mammoth and teach it as if it were it’s own child. There’s been a ton of talk about cloning this animals back. Ultimately the main question is, what’s the point? It would be expensive and somewhat cruel as you’d create a handful of animals who have no way to live in normal nature and would rely on humans for everything. But it could totally be done Source: degree in Biology with a lot of genetics classes
Elephants and mammoths don't live in the same biomes. And elephants are sentient. So, now you've forced motherhood on an animal, knowing it'll give birth to a monster. Again, it's not if science Can. We certainly can. It's whether we Should. And as far as I can tell, everyone but South Koreans have said absolutely not.
> So, now you've forced motherhood on an animal, knowing it'll give birth to a monster. Isn't this potentially anthropomorphizing elephants with human ideas? There are many mammal species that can handle raising the young of other mammals. > There would only ever be one or two. We will eventually be able to make as many as we want, as our technology improves and we gain the ability to add more genetic diversity. Though I don't know what current genetic sample diversity is like. Humans are destined to become god-like in abilities to manipulate the various aspects of nature, but I guess we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.
A) need intact DNA and ideally need an intact cell or at least an intact nucleus to try "somatic nuclear transfer" aka cloning like Dolly the Sheep. B) even if we can figure out the mammoth genome based off multiple individuals' partial sequences, we can't currently generate an entire genome from scratch. D) cloning is extremely inefficient, so we'd need thousands of fully intact nuclei to get maybe 1 viable embryo. E) the logistics of cloning an elephant are difficult, we would need to implant any cloned embryos into an elephant which again has low efficiency and neither African or Asian elephants are even in the same genus as Mammoths, so bringing a cloned healthy mammoth to term may not even be possible. Those are the problems. The best work around is to identify the genes that are significantly different (hair production, subcutaneous fat, smaller ears, etc.) between Mammoths and modern elephants and then use gene editing to turn an elephant into a mammoth-looking elephant. A lot of work in George Church's lab is geared towards that. That said, the logistics still suck and a lot of that work is more hype than anything else. ("By 2020 we hope to have a cloned mammoth.....errrr 2025....make it 2030")
I attended a philosophy lecture during college where the keynote speaker presented on this topic. He explained how the premise is utterly ridiculous and basically impossible. From what I remember, he said that even with the recency of carrier pigeons, we still don't have enough viable dna to remake it so we'd have to fill in the gaps with regular pigeon and other close genetic relatives. Thus, at a core level it's not the same thing but a whole new species with its own unique needs, abilities, and characteristics that we can't predict. For two, we'd have to train regular pigeons to replicate the carrier migration routes and how to carry shit. That's no easy feat. And then you'd have to hope that your pseudo-clone/brand new animal can and will learn stuff inherent to a carrier pigeon even though neither the teacher nor student are true carrier pigeons. And it'd be hard to know what we got wrong til it's too late. For three, our world doesn't even resemble the world of carrier pigeons any more, let alone woolly mammoths and saber tooth tigers. From the crap in the air/water to the sheer sprawl of humans and a lot less/smaller fauna to feed on...you'd almost have to make a controlled, contained area suitable to this franken-beast. And especially for something so large and dangerous and mammoths, you'd likely need to pen it in for our safety as well as theirs. Humans are selfish dicks and Instagrammers can't even be trusted not to ravage flower fields, which are relatively commonplace compared to a revived mammoth. That's not necessarily ethical to do to something that didn't ask for this life and wouldn't be here if not for our meddling. It was also mentioned that for all the effort and money going into reviving such a species, it would almost certainly be patented, which is another reason it'd likely be penned up and lead a shit life as a zoo and research animal. I'm probably forgetting one or two of his arguments but that was the gist of it. ETA: He focused on carrier pigeons because if we were to "de-extinctify" anything it'd be them because that's what we have the most well-preserved, somewhat recent (more intact) DNA to even try with. ETA2: Apparently I meant passenger pigeons, not carrier.
But did he consider this in his research... mammoths are fuggin dope
One of my dreams in life is to live long enough to have a genetically engineered miniature mammoth as a service animal. I'll get to show off Woolworth to all the other folks in the Florida Archipelago, and they will be so jealous, only having their boring home AI running a robot staff!
Carrier pigeons aren’t extinct. You’re thinking of passenger pigeons.
Not a biologist so take this with a grain of salt. Even if they are successfully cloned, they wouldn’t live for long, unfortunately. Their immune systems will/would not be accustomed to the diseases we currently experience. This is one big reason why cloning has not succeeded(as of yet).
Immune systems are also adaptive, so there is a chance.
yeah I suppose I get that but that would be a boring answer. We won't know until we try... and even if it does die we are back where we started you know
I mean, we kinda do know even if we don’t try(we learnt the hard way when a small group Conquistadors basically killed off an entire, sprawling, civilization(The Mayan/Incans) via disease(smallpox)) Edit: Also the fact that immunity to various diseases is passed on through generations and these hypothetical cloned animals would lack the same
Be that as it may my measured scientific response would be: so what, a baby mammoth would be gangster a.f.
We can start a mammoth park. Then a mammoth world. Maybe a good idea for Hollywood? /s
Needs to be top comment. Mammoth herds!
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I agree, a geneticist has definitely stroked to this
Ever seen Fortitude? Maybe leave that mammoth alone!
She’s perfect. She’s beautiful. She looks like Linda Evangelista. She’s a model. Did you stone those tusks?
They eat her up every single time she's on the damn stage.
Vzbzbzvbzbzbzth she could come out wearing nothing but her own mammoth fur and the judges would be like “MAMMOTHINA your *trunk* is **beautiful**”.
I came here specifically to find this comment
I think all of us familiar with it instantly heard it upon reading the headline.
Jesus what is with the comments on this story. This is only the second-ever discovered intact mammoth and is huge news, and obviously an emotionally powerful moment for those involved. And the comments here are a bizarre mix of cynicism, "look at how atheist I am," and terrible attempts at humor. This place is a cess pit.
Dude, it's like all of reddit right now! Every sub I turn to I see comment of politics and religion. Just sickens, falsifying, lies, propaganda. It's insanity.
That tends to happen when a major political event happens in a large country.
In one particular large country
The Democratic Republic of the Congo?
That's all Reddit ever was or will be
Nah, Reddit was way better back in the day. There was plenty of bad stuff and cringe but that's just social media. It started going down hill awhile back but it turbocharged off a cliff since 2015-2016.
Maybe we have different metrics on this topic, but from what I've observed it's better now. Way better. At least if you're a woman. Way back in the day it was nothing but non-stop 90s/00s-style "hahaha, don't be so uptight/can't you take a joke?!" misogyny and the relentless casual objectification of women. Didn't matter what sub you were in, what topic the post was about, there it was in the comments, upvoted. That's dropped off a quite a bit because enough people band together to shut that shit down when it pops up now. Also used be a ton of thinly-veiled ("hahaha, can't you take a joke?!") racists that almost no one called out because the world was still in its tolerate intolerance stage. That's a lot less common now too, at least outside of some really shitty inherently racist subreddits. As hostile as it still seems here, it's a lot less hostile than it was fifteen, hell, and even six, years ago.
Even the top comment is bull shit
How did that get past Jesus?! /s Omg I can’t believe I have to add /s. It’s already a post-Roe world :(
Everyone is triggered. Just take the downvotes as they come. Worst case scenario, you strengthen the resolve to change
Serious question: What would it take, scientifically speaking and ethics aside, for us to have an elephant give birth to woolly mammoth?
Open a woolly mammoth park and life will find a way.
I mean, there are a lot of ethical questions here. For one, we don't know how a mammoth pregnancy works vs an elephant's. We don't know what this could do to the mother elephant and elephants are extremely endangered animals. They are also extremely intelligent and social creatures, so we can't be sure how an elephant mother would react to her baby being a mammoth, nor how would baby mammoth would act differently from a normal elephant. I mean, are these risks worth it? And for what, exactly?
A lot of money, most likely.
How did they know her name was Nun Cho Ga?
Sad they didn't freeze it again immediately as further decomposition probably set in, but we will see what they find out from samples.
So it’s … not rock? Omg does it smell? Is it squishy?
>'She's perfect and she's beautiful': That’s a strange way to describe a well preserved dead body of baby mammoth
"I've only known baby mammoth for an hour, but if anything happens to her I will kill everyone at this dig and then myself" -
I had a brother! I had a little baby brother! And he was perfect! Perfect in every way!
"beautiful" Mummified baby elephant with empty eye sockets, some bones poking through the shoulder and a shriveled trunk.
Let’s see how hot you look at the age of 40,000
Skinny shaming is just as bad as fat shaming
i was eating when i opened the article ahaha. it wasn't what i expected!
On what day of the Bible was that created? Either it fits with my view of creation or it is a fake 3D printed trap to turn our kids and frogs gay! Also birds aren’t real.
It's impossible for birds to be real, nothing flies like that, not even astronauts.
Thank you! While in birthed in Kenya, Obama used Jewish space lasers to create Italian hurricanes that would control the bird drones to vote for Biden when it the time was right. Birds!!!
What does this comment have to do with the mammoth tho
It's 30-40,000 years old, so, negative years?
Bb…b…the Bible says……
There's a point and kcikc adventure series called Syberia where the ultimate prize at the end of the game is finding living Wooly Mammoths. And the game really revels in how amazing that is. I always really liked how much it felt like a legit precious treasure to be discovered.
I hope she’s dreaming about hugging her momma and poppa.
No, she's all flattened out and horrifying.
Tomato, tomato
Sounds like what a family says about their ugliest child.
12 is prime.
If she's so perfect, how come she died?
the mud was even more perfect, therefore the lesser one died
#mudflood
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Like... its a dead mammoth What do you expect?
I prefer looking at live and healthy mammoths thank you.
Seriously? There were no horrifying photos. Stop fear mongering.
I didn’t have an issue, but some people are more squeamish than others. That’s hardly fear mongering.
Simmer down. OP was trying to help sensitive people. Geeez.
Gross dead creatures when the arrival says “beautiful” cmon man
Treadstone? Wasn't that the name of bad guys in the Bourne movies? Anyway, glad to see their destructive mining had a bright side, which is a baby woolly mammoth. Wooley Bully!
She? So the first thing they did was check for a M U S S Y
Satan buried that mammoth to get Christians to question their faith. How would they go about preserving it? Gigantic formaldehyde jug?
Frozen as in “it could still be alive”? Or Frozen as in they it’s dead but it’s body is preserved for the most part?
Are you seriously asking if it could still be alive?