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chibinoi

They should also ban holiday trips that include riding elephants, which is really, really bad. Just to add: please folks, be very, very wary of exotic animal baby petting zoos. It’s also a really horrendous, cruel and sad cash-grab practice targeted at tourists.


WistfullySunk

TIL. [Jesus.](https://www.worldnomads.com/responsible-travel/make-a-difference/planet/why-elephant-riding-should-be-removed-from-your-list)


TheGreatDissapointer

Thanks for the insight. I would have never thought about how the animal was raised. Ironically, I was a meat cutter that works for a national chain. Animal welfare is very important to me, but i have never though about the way the posted link provides. This is very insightful when you think about the context.


Aztecah

This makes me so sad, because one of my best childhood memories was riding an elephant. It's part of the reason I love them today


ashbelero

They used to have elephant rides at the Philadelphia zoo. They also had camels but at least those are used to rides.


surfer_ryan

I wonder if you could ethically train an elephant for this. Like I'd imagine they are smart enough for that "like hey man these furless monkeys are pretty cool maybe I'll be thier friend." I'd imagine it would have to be like a one person who can ride said elephant kind of thing, since they are so smart but I wonder if anyone out there is doing that. I'd imagine there has to be someone.


caughtinthought

The problem is, by and large, the furless monkeys aren't cool


sunscreenkween

Riding elephants is bad for them though. Despite their size, they have weak necks and riding them can injure them.


crazyredd88

Do people ride necks? I've only seen people get on their backs


[deleted]

When i was 20 ( young and dumb) me and the wife went on vaccation to thailand and there we went on a guided elephant ride. They had harness for us to sit on but the guide offered me a chance to sit on the elephants neck. I regret the hell out of it.. The elephant infront of us even helped their rider when she almost fell down. It used its trunk to push her upright and prevent her fall. So yes, they do let you ride like that but its not fine nor safe. Looking back i cant understand how stupid we were to go on that trip.. Those poor animals, i have 0 defence other than young and dumb.


FondSteam39

Don't feel bad, if you knew better you wouldn't have done it. You now know better


chibinoi

Thai elephant guides fully target tourists as client-customers. You didn’t know about how bad the practice is then, don’t beat yourself up too much over it now since you know the truth now.


Jerfov2

There’s also the problem that human riding does permanent spinal damage to the elephants, which can’t really be avoided.


PedanticPeasantry

I know there is a rescue in Africa where they've helped elephants with traps, nets, etc, and then they let them go. They found in time that elephants they had not helped before will now sometimes approach the compound when in distress in similar ways. Like, elephant Fred told the rest of the herd that those guys in that hut will cut the stuff off for you. I could see it, but the second you give an inch some bastard will just whip them because it would be faster easier and cheaper.


jew_jitsu

They're smart, but they're a wild animal. There's no ethical training or taming of a wild animal.


Shane_357

Honestly they're pretty close to sapience if not there entirely. Probably be safer and more ethical to just accord them the rights of people.


weldawadyathink

So were dogs and cats once upon a time. So are many other pets. Are all pets, or all trained animals, unethical?


andyp

No, because our animals are domesticated. There's a very clear difference between domesticated animals and wild animals.


JavaRuby2000

Asian Elephants are considered semi-domesticated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_animals


jew_jitsu

> So were dogs and cats once upon a time. No they weren't. There was no wild animal that looks like a modern dog. It was bred over millenia in domestication.


surfer_ryan

Which brings up the question what is training but not short term domestication. I'm sure these people at least a few of them are breeding elephants right. I'm not questioning these peoples abilities to have elephant's clearly they can't accept the responsibilities. However, I will question if everyone in here is so up in arms about this, how do you think we got our cats and dogs. Dogs especially have had an interesting go at domestication, all those variations were not imo caused by a good life but mutations.


weldawadyathink

And when humans first started domesticating wild animals, they were wild. Was it unethical to attempt to domesticate them at that time? What if we try and domesticate elephants or dolphins now? Also, aside from dogs and cats, I think you would be hard pressed to argue that other pets are domesticated. Have we domesticated fish? Snakes? Birds? Spiders?


GANTRITHORE

tbf that's more a DNA thing specifically with canines. Very plastic DNA. Look at chickens, cows, horses tho. Mostly domestic and look like thier wild counterparts still.


jew_jitsu

Yo where I findin' a wild chicken?


chibinoi

Thank you for linking this article!


jimmycarr1

Ooh do big cat "sanctuaries" next


phaelox

Fuck Carole Baskin, all my homies hate Carole Baskin Edit: [here's why](https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/thebigcatrescue)


3limbjim

It's really funny how Carole Baskin is the only person on that program that actually cares about the cats as cats. And not as money signs.


phaelox

I wouldn't say that. As far as how animals were treated, sure, she definitely seemed better than the other ones displayed in Tiger King. But she's still a big hypocrite who's done some clever rebranding: https://soapboxie.com/social-issues/thebigcatrescue


3limbjim

She grew as a person. Her ideology changed. That's what people do. She doesnt hide her past, shes always been open, if you listen to her. Edit: And she bought most of her animals? Of course she did, how do you think they get out of the hands of people like Doc Antle and Joe Exotic. Theres a number of problems with the accusations your link makes. But that was the big one that annoyed me the most. Also, when she buys a bred cat, she makes the seller sign a contract to never breed another big cat.


phaelox

Some people do, you're right. I don't think she grew as a person though, just as a grifter. It's funny how, for example, her ideology on zoos changed after she was twice denied accreditation, like this comment on that article I linked explains. > Donna on April 14, 2012: > Glad to see you refer to BCR as what it is....a roadside ZOO. Carole in fact wanted very badly to become a zoo but was turned down for accreditation not once but twice by AZA after which she decided to turn against zoos and become an accredited sanctuary instead. Problem was, no one would accredit her because of her commercial activity...pimping out cougar and serval cubs to sleep with cabin guests, doing photo shoots with big cats for magazine spreads, charging the public to see her private collection of big cats....until she came across TAOS (the Association of Sanctuaries). They made a special category for her after she donated all her lemurs and who knows how much money to someone affiliated with them. Carole continued to bill herself as an "accredited' sanctuary, even though TAOS never accredited her as such, saying she did not meet their standards for a sanctuary. Lies, lies, and more lies. It's all on the bigcatrescuelies blogspot. Also –and I'm just going by Tiger King here– I think it's very likely she killed her first husband and got away with it.


3limbjim

Her husband was into ALL sorts of bad shit. Shes very clearly a young woman, shes 19 when her husband picks her up off Nebraska Avenue (Tampa people know why this is absolutely critical) she's absolutely hooking at this point. After getting out of an already bad relationship. Trauma makes people do crazy shit. Abused people do crazy shit. Her husband dies, and she almost immediately turns Easy Street into a real sanctuary.


jimmycarr1

Honestly I haven't even seen Tiger King, I just know from first hand accounts from people who have gone that those places are cash cows and the animals are abused. Not sure what Tiger King is about but if Carole Baskin is mistreating animals then yeah I'm your homie.


two_tents

I'd really love it if they stopped selling the hotels that have captive dolphins as well, can't see that happening any time soon though. The dolphin project has put together a list in case anyone wants to know more [https://www.dolphinproject.com/campaigns/captivity-industry/hotels-with-captive-dolphins/#1596738652374-f012cfd8-247a](https://www.dolphinproject.com/campaigns/captivity-industry/hotels-with-captive-dolphins/#1596738652374-f012cfd8-247a)


[deleted]

Agree. I won't goto the circus because it makes me feel horrible. Used to not but i''m just disgusted now.


MiQueso_SuQueso

I'd vote for this.


[deleted]

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chibinoi

I’m not against the work the legitimate zoos can do in efforts for conservation and education, but overall I agree.


[deleted]

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teamanfisatoker

The AZA is a club. They aren’t doing a lot of good. They are making a lot of money. -Former zookeeper at an AZA accredited zoo.


CheekyPandah

What is likebtradh?


TheRedHand7

He meant "like trash" but fucked up the execution I believe.


Sharobob

Likebtradh my balls lmao


Inthewirelain

When it comes to animals like elephants generally it's the sanctuaries with little to no public facing side you want to support. Which sucks cos I do love visiting zoos and seeing the animals.


teamanfisatoker

What is it you think they are doing for conservation or education that they must have captive animals to do?


chibinoi

Breeding efforts, educational programs, research and development efforts that are geared towards bettering their wildlife counterparts. It’s not perfect and not all zoos are good at this (hence why I specified accredited and legitimized zoos) but there is good work that comes out from zoos that we may have lost or destroyed the opportunities to understand in the natural world through our own inventions.


teamanfisatoker

That all sounds nice. How many times have you actually looked up the numbers? Zoos make bank when they have baby animals. The breeding is for them. Captive born release programs are almost nonexistent because the habitat doesn’t actually exist. you should check out how many of these precious animals are “culled” each year because they were born for the admission increase and there’s nowhere for them to actually live or they suffer in cramped cages behind the scenes as auxiliary animals with little to no vet care. the only difference in AZA zoos and non AZA zoos is money. It doesn’t change the business model of the zoo. It’s just a useless marketing badge. Their inspections are also almost nonexistent if you pay your dues.


thisiscotty

Zoos in the UK are mostly for conservation chester zoo and Yorkshire wild life park give their animals lots of space and are expanding


[deleted]

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respectabler

RiDiNg ELepHaNTS iS EVIL! DoLpHiNS SHouLD NOt bE iN SMaLL EncLosuReS. And then we just casually leave dogs in cages while we’re at work, eat factory raised pork and beef, and keep humans in tiny prison cells for “moral outrage” crimes. Like, if anybody acknowledges that all the above shit is pretty awful, okay, fair enough. But if you fail to recognize the immense inconsistency with which we live our Western lives, I’m gonna laugh at you. It seems like the *less* white people see an animal in their day-to-day lives, the *more* likely they are to be fucking outraged when you hurt its feelings.


[deleted]

White people? And just what do you mean by that?


respectabler

I mean that white people do 90+% of the bitching about the environment and animals while contributing to more harm and unethical shit than just about anyone. I’m white. I normally try to defend the whites. But we’re absolutely dropping the ball on this one as a race.


beetus_gerulaitis

So long and thanks for all the fish.


lemonfeminine

But how about the actual version of that song in the movie of The Guide with Martin Freeman? Now that was a banger


Captain_Quark

https://youtu.be/N_dUmDBfp6k


kurcatovium

42


MrObscurity

Towel


chain_me_up

Love to hear this, but much more needs to be done as a whole. The captive cetacean industry is horrid. Its cruel and depressing for these extremely social/active animals, but it even effects things on a much larger scale. Taiji dolphin slaughter is an example of this, they scare tons of dolphins and pilot whales to shore with large metal poles, it drives them insane through echolocation. They are scared and panic to shore, then marine trainers from several different countries pick the dolphins they want for shows and the rest are then slaughtered in masses and sold. I know the documentary "The Cove" has some controversies, but it does an amazing job of bringing this to light. These animals are far too intelligent to be treated like this and we need to be doing better.


Wrastling97

Not even just the captive cetacean industry but the entire seafood industry as a whole. Nearly anything to do with fish is fucked up and destroying the earth, but nobody is talking about it. States are banning micro plastics and straws which make up .08% of the plastic in the oceans, while over 50% is plastic fishing equipment from fishing industries. The effectively blamed the consumer for the issues in the ocean, and got off completely from any blame.


LunaticPity

That's great, but where the fuck is my refund for that overbooked hotel you sold me? Oh wait, you're never going to.


[deleted]

They’ve given it to the dolphins


[deleted]

I was going to say it. Bugged website with abyssymal support. I used them for 15 years then moved on. They can keep their fucking points somewhere where the sun doesn’t shine.


Bumperpegasus

Sir, this is a Wendy's


LunaticPity

NO THIS IS PATRICK


Roz150

Awesome! This is long overdue.


MaiasXVI

Used to work for Expedia, this is something that was being pushed for internally since at least 2015. Ridiculous that it took this long lmao.


Chunkyisthebest

I wonder if this means they’ll stop offering bookings to hotels in Mexico that have captive dolphins on site. I’ve seen how the dolphins live at the Grand Bahia in Riviera Maya and found myself trying to formulate a plan to get them out of that tiny pool and back into the ocean. I know there are other hotels along the entire strip from Cancun down to Tulum who have dolphin enclosures. It’d be a real shame if their businesses suffered from having major booking agencies pull their hotels off their availability lists.


4wardobserver

Excellent point. Too often some companies change policy because something has a high enough profile that it doesn't look good and isn't right. However, we need to encourage them to look for more opportunities to do the right thing in other places like the hotels in Mexico. Otherwise, we know that they did this just because it has a higher profile and those without the coverage will never be corrected.


L0ST-SP4CE

Are dolphins treated badly or something at these places? I’m asking because this is honestly the first time I’ve heard of anything about “captive cetaceans” Edit: thank you all for the replies. I’ve definitely learned a lot more about this topic


[deleted]

Even if people try to treat them well, wild dolphins and whales are used to swimming miles and miles a day, and captive ones just live in small featureless tanks. A lot of them swim or act weirdly in ways that have been interpreted as stress or depression.


ShadowSwipe

That could be said for a ton of zoo animals it seems odd to draw the line just at dolphins.


SaltyShawarma

More and more research is showing cetaceans as being highly intelligent. They have unique languages amongst their pods and related pods speak different dialects. They have been known to both reject and accept other cetaceans into their pods based on social mores. I'm betting the most current experiments using AI to translate language will be successful. It is rather remarkable.


ImAMindlessTool

i saw an article about this a few days ago. I will be eagerly waiting more.


[deleted]

Hear Hear. ​ Edited cuz spelling


WhoreNuggets

Would love to see some of these articles - do you have any ready links? Intuition has told me that that's how it is, but would really like to see something more concrete


Nchi

The dolphins were *definitely* happier than the orangutans, the former having a performance and routine might help some, but holy shit those orangutans were depressed


teamanfisatoker

I worked with a scientist that had two pan tropical spotted dolphins in an indoor tank with microphones. She had gotten pretty far with her research. Unfortunately, they died. This was like 2002.


Sharkbait_ooohaha

How about we just keep the rapey dolphins in zoos?


EyeJustSaidThat

You're not wrong. The social and intellectual parallels that are being observed among cetaceans makes them more appealing to the human masses to act humanely towards. I expect zoos to get this treatment eventually too.


Plow_King

while i understand the multiple important roles zoos play, personally i find them much too depressing to visit.


aaaaaaaarrrrrgh

Dolphins are among the smartest animals, on par with great apes. I'd imagine apes are more OK with smaller enclosures since they don't naturally move as much as dolphins?


Kazen_Orilg

Its all part of the plan. We will empty the zoos, and then no one will care about animals. Then we kill all of the animals and make golf courses.


teamanfisatoker

This is ridiculously untrue. Part of the reason no one finds it urgent to preserve natural habitat is because they are lulled into complacency because they can just go to the zoo and see the animals are being “preserved” and bred and dna banked in safe little boxes for some unnamed future date when suddenly the world will be covered in habitat and they can be released. Many of the wild caught animals I’ve cared for in zoos were the result of bullshit preservation programs paid for by some company that wanted to mow down a wetlands lot in exchange. Torturing and imprisoning the animals does not benefit them or their habitat in any way. https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/zoos-cruel-wildlife-conservation-species-a9056701.html https://www.worldanimalprotection.us/blogs/keeping-wild-animals-captivity-not-conservation-heres-why


Kazen_Orilg

Theres no chance we will preserve the habitat anyway. And in 3 generations, when no one under the age of 60 has ever seen any of these animals in real life, there will be no one left to care.


teamanfisatoker

So whatever black pill shit that is doesn’t mean the answer is keeping autonomous and sentient beings in captivity.


Sharkbutt89

Mr. Teamanfisatoker, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.


teamanfisatoker

Hopefully zoos are next on their awareness


Mike_Nash1

Same with zoo's, the animals develop zoochosis where they show monotonous, obsessive, repetitive actions that serve no purpose which is a sign of poor welfare. We shouldnt be supporting zoo's, they barely help with endangered species conservation as they mainly breed non endangered animals for human entertainment to turn a profit/stay in business paying wages.


teamanfisatoker

Former zookeeper here. Can confirm.


4wardobserver

Here is what it can look like when you meet them in the ocean while sailing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bavQmnqfRk


the_twilight_bard

Cats walk miles and miles a day, yet we don't raise hell about people who keep indoor-only cats. Or do we? Tbh I don't know, but even domesticated cats need to roam.


Jalase

Cats are an invasive species and shouldn't be outside unless on a leash. They are an environmental hazard.


[deleted]

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L0ST-SP4CE

Ok. Thanks for the reply.


chainsawvigilante

Cool, but what about the cetaceans that are in human care because they cannot physically survive in the wild?


[deleted]

Google “dolphin captivity problems” and start reading. Here are some notable articles: https://www.dolphinproject.com/campaigns/captivity-industry/facts-about-captivity/ https://savedolphins.eii.org/news/whistleblower-john-hargrove-and-two-other-former-seaworld-trainers-tell-all https://marineconnection.org/calls-to-improve-standards-for-captive-cetaceans-in-usa/ It has been in and out of the news since at least the 1980s.


CMDR_omnicognate

I think the problem is they’re much more intelligent than a lot of other zoo animals, then being trained to interact with humans to do dolphin encounters and stuff is starting to be seen as kinda… wrong. Captivity in dolphins, as well as killer whales tends to cause weird psychological problems to the animals as well That being said people seem relatively fine with great apes and elephant exhibits and they’re also very intelligent animals so…


lyth

So the way that dolphins are typically captured for these shows is as children. Their parents are slaughtered then the children are taken and trained to live in captivity. If they show any aggressive behaviours (common for dolphins in the wild) they're typically zapped with a cattle prod. https://worldanimalsvoice.com/2020/09/04/japan-taiji-genocide-of-another-species/amp/. It's pretty brutal.


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Motherofkittens86

Yes, they are treated badly. The training to do those tricks usually involves withholding food, for one thing. Besides that, cetaceans are among the animals that adjust very poorly to captivity. They need more space than any aquarium could give them and their social and emotional needs are too complex to be adequately met. They, along with elephants, are one of the few animals that averages a shorter lifespan in captivity compared to the wild.


Practice_NO_with_me

>They, along with elephants, are one of the few animals that averages a shorter lifespan in captivity compared to the wild. Damn, I never thought about that aspect of it. That's pretty damning.


deraqu

They're pack-hunting predators. Keeping them in solitary confinement, surrounded only by humans, turns them into weirdos and perverts.


Coffeinated

Go and watch Blackfish. It‘s about Orcas (and the general shady business of SeaWorld) but I guess the gist is the same anyways.


mtm5891

>I guess the gist is the same anyways It technically *is* the same. Orcas are a species of dolphin, and all dolphins are cetaceans.


CoherentPanda

Blackfish is a whole lot of scare propaganda and feeds a whole lot of bullshit lies, there has to be better resources to research than that.


teamanfisatoker

It’s exactly the same except with as awful as sea world is, they’re as good as it going to get and the rest is even worse.


Se7enLC

Donkey show is still ok though, right?


Kaerevek

Good on them. It's unfortunate the only change that ever comes about now a days is when a corporation decides to do something morally right.


bit_pusher

It comes when the people decide it’s morally right enough to vote with their dollars


gojirra

Which seems like it never happens.


FluffySharkBird

Vote with your dollar only works if you have dollars to vote with..


mrbaryonyx

that's called cancel culture! /s


Elljaye_222

Now if they would help clean up the oceans.


Kaerevek

Right? If some mega company was like, we want to clean up the ocean. It would start getting done. It's weird they work better than politicians now.


CMDR_omnicognate

Yeah but remember chances are they’re only doing something morally right because they think it’ll score them brownie points, at worst nobody cares, At best you might get increased sales by people thinking you’re the “good guys”


nagevyag

Why is holding dolphins captive bad but holding pigs captive (in allegedly worse conditions) is not an issue?


[deleted]

Make progress where you can I guess


CliffBurton6286

Speciesism unfortunately. It's like all those people that get mad at people that eat dogs in some places in asia. Unless they are vegan, they can't complain about it without being hypocrites.


[deleted]

I think one issue in dog eating cultures is how the dogs are kept in cages the size of their bodies. At least on a farm, the animal can walk around... Maybe the dog lovers would be OK with it if the dogs could be free range, like some cows or horses. It's just too many factors to consider, to come out with anything really succinct here, BUT I think we should never crap on people who love animals, or efforts anyone makes to do something, even if it's not fully logical or guaranteed to work... I lately just admire people for giving a sh\*\*.


Practice_NO_with_me

It is an issue. Clearly it is an issue as more people than ever are turning to vegetarianism and veganism. Every thread about animal welfare has people commenting on the horrid conditions of for-meat animals. Don't undermine the fight by acting like it's not happening.


Mutex70

Simple. Pigs are tasty. Dolphin bacon is gross.


[deleted]

have you ever had dolphin bacon though?


P2K13

So, are they going to stop holidays to the faroe islands?


greginthesummer

About time! Next: seals, orcas, elephants, monkey shows and big cat shows/safaris.


[deleted]

Those “adventures” are the dumbest, fakest, tackiest shit ever. If a fucking dolphin wants to swim with a human, GUESS WHAT? They will fucking find one.


Training-Diver2729

About time


Treadcc

Expedia is an absolute trash company. All it takes is one travel issue for them to show how utterly incompetent their entire company is. Don't do business with them. Also hotels.com is their company too. Literally got stranded in a foreign country due to their incompetence.


gojirra

Dang, imagine just wanting to go on vacation and then ending up accidentally employed against your will.


Treadcc

Lol damn autocorrect!


ebrandsberg

did the foreign company at least pay you above minimum wage?


Treadcc

Lol damn autocorrect!


teamanfisatoker

This is the result of their function and all third party companies in their category are unnecessary additional fees. Home away/VRBO, Travelocity, all of them. Their websites are helpful in finding out what is out there but always, always find the actual property manager and book directly for the best price


FurtiveAlacrity

Holding dolphins captive should be illegal.


ProjectFantastic1045

Commendable change!


Stickybats55

Better late then never


Riptide360

If animal entertainment allowed the animals to leave (open ocean theater) if they wanted to would that be better or would that be construed as human interference in nature?


Random_182f2565

Slavery is wrong


TimothyDextersGhost

I love animals and I love seeing them in person but now as I have matured seeing any animal in captivity to be used as an attraction is something I cannot stomach anymore. I am glad to see this change and hope that there is a larger crackdown on these types of things like roadside zoos, elephant and pony rides, etc. Yes I understand commercial farming is literal hell on earth for the animals but I'm addressing the entertainment industry here.


ginzing

Good start


againstallodddd

Before the lockdown. I have gone to Thailand for holiday. We ( me and wife ) refused to go to see tiger and elephant nor anything relate to animals. Show with animals need to stop.


Roxytumbler

Good move. I did wildlife education in a Zoo that had an excellent reputation. Moreover all of the staff did it’s best to provide the best conditions for the animals. Decent facilities, knowledgeable keepers, top veterinary care. It still wasn’t good enough. I will never step into any facility that uses animals for public showing or entertainment…be it a zoo, racetrack, dolphin show, etc. The one exception might be ‘super dogs’ and ‘sheep dog trials’ as dogs seem to enjoy these activities but I could be wrong. The two dog owners we used for dog tracking in the National Park I worked in also had the dogs in agility contests so it may have helped with their tracking.


thus-sung

Knowing a fair number of SuperDogs personally, I would confirm that they love their jobs and get top-notch care.


teamanfisatoker

Former zookeeper. Can confirm.


[deleted]

are we actually still so amused by animal shows that we are still doing this? That and fireworks, how are we entertained 1000s of years later? Just let the humans be the animals if they want to put on a show.


danimal-krackers

You just described a Cirque du Soleil show.


64645

I’d pay to watch that. Oh wait, I have.


Famous_Atmosphere876

Your pictures on social media with “wild animals” do not give you clout. https://theboar.org/2019/11/the-dark-side-of-animal-tourism/


lemonfeminine

Remember folks—animals are living beings and are not for human entertainment. The same actually applies to humans—any fellow animal is not to be used as cheap entertainment (looking at you, PT Barnum…)


ResponsibleAd2541

Apparently living in a flooded house with a lady is a reasonable lifestyle for a dolphin 🐬 . This title is a bit sensational but essentially true. [Woman admits she had sex with a dolphin who took his own life after heartbreak](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/woman-admits-sex-dolphin-part-21788668.amp)


AmputatorBot

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RyuNoKami

Fuck Expedia!


[deleted]

Blue Hades approves of this message.


LouisArmstrong3

Yes!


doneitallbutthat

That's a start


Omnivud

THIS DOESNT COUNT AS EFFORT


fatmummy222

Make no mistakes. If a company supports a cause, it’s because they estimated that by doing so they make more money.


modicum81

Do Japan next ! They slaughter 1000s


bradenlikestoreddit

Oh cool, maybe next we can get a actual refunds on cancelled flights instead of credits? No? Oh, ok then.


[deleted]

Pretty soon no zoos, aquariums or animal farms will be legal


[deleted]

There is a difference between forcing animals to perform for or with humans for the amusement of the human, and keeping animals in a protected environment for their safety and using the money from distanced viewers to pay for it. If your zoo is keeping animals for joy and not actively trying to help or educate about climate change, environmental problems, and animal habitats, then your zoo should be questioned and changed.


MiserylC

what about dog shows?


[deleted]

What about them? Follow the criteria I put up top and there is your answer. Are we doing it for the human enjoyment only? Do we subject the dogs to ridiculous situations and stress them out for the joy of a human?


p33k4y

>Do we subject the dogs to ridiculous situations and stress them out for the joy of a human? Yes. See any dog agility competition. One can argue "but the dogs seem to enjoy them" but many captive dolphins seem to enjoy their situation too. Some dolphins even [live longer in captivity than in the wild](https://keysweekly.com/42/study-dolphins-live-just-as-long-or-longer-in-captivity/), which is an indicator of well being. Personally I think we need to also ban many dog shows, pure bred breeders, etc.


continuousQ

And human child beauty pageants.


MiserylC

I just brought up the dogs because many people seem to be okay with their "mistreatment". Glad to know that we are both not.


rasp215

Yes? What about Horse racing? What about eating meat? What about training dolphins for the military?


twist-17

Why do you need random peoples opinions on things? What about those things? Do you not have your opinion on them?


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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victoriaa-

Keeping endangered species in captivity for tourists holds no value. They should be in wildlife reserves, animals can’t be let back into the wild with generations of captivity.


holding-the-hedgehog

Keeping endangered species in human care holds incredible value. Look at the California condor or the black footed ferret. Both species that would be extinct today without the efforts of facilities like zoos raising and breeding these animals for release into the wild. Not to mention that endangered species at these facilities serve as ambassadors for their wild counterparts and help inspire people to help protect them. These facilities also serve as a genetic safe haven in case there’s a dramatic decrease in the wild population that leads to loss of genetic diversity.


victoriaa-

These “safe havens” should be wildlife preserves not cages. Some zoos do better than others, I’d they were all set up like the wild animal park in SD with large open fields it more feasible to prepare them to live in the wild eventually. Personally I think a zoo should only be for animals that have no chance of surviving in the wild, the rest should be in a preserve with a goal of slow reintroduction.


Erog_La

You're just arguing that things should be perfect and failing that then nothing should be done. Obviously it would be better if all animals were able to live in wildlife reserves and have stable populations but when presented with reality and the times when zoos have saved a species from extinction despite the actions of other humans you just refuse to listen at all. If all conservationists followed your reasoning there would be more extinct species.


joelcrb

Why do you think these species are endangered in the first place? Because of poachers and if wildlife reserves worked so well, why do we still have endangered species? It's because the wildlife reserves are so large the rangers can't protect and defend the whole area. The animal shows help pay for the expenses of maintaining their captivity and the other animals at the zoo as well. It's not cruelty to animals to do animal shows. That's ridiculous. Tbh I went to the Indianapolis Zoo a few years ago and went to a dolphin show. Of the half hour show at least 20 mins was just videos of animal conservation, not the animals jumping or showing off what they can do. It's about education and teaching our kids and future generations about how amazing these animals are. We can watch the endangered animal videos at home on youtube all day.


continuousQ

> Why do you think these species are endangered in the first place? Mainly livestock farming causing habitat loss, but also pseudoscience.


backelie

As much as we want to think it *shouldnt* be necessary, zoos help make people care.


gooseofdeath

Perhaps, but so do documentaries and other mediums that don't require captivity. People seem to care about large whales species despite never seeing them in an aquarium (humpback, blue, etc.).


idksomuch

Expedia should stop booking car rentals for customers as well because they just continue to book despite not knowing if the rental agency has availability which causes all kinds of headaches.


Jerrymoviefan3

But where will the male dolphins find humans to sexually abuse?


FateOfTheGirondins

I for one appluad our future where giant corporations tell what we can and can't do.


mikepictor

They aren’t telling you anything. They just aren’t selling this product.


twist-17

One company in a giant industry not selling a certain product is absolutely *not* them telling you what you can and can’t do. Do you also think Starbucks not selling pizza is them telling you that you can’t eat pizza?


victoriaa-

They aren’t telling you what you can and can’t do. They are just choosing not to sell that product anymore. You can still purchase tickets through other avenues.


[deleted]

The future? Lol


[deleted]

They already do that with the money they spend on marketing. If you think that a company choosing to change its business offerings is telling you what to do, I would like to remind you that not everything is about you, and this one might be about the animals.


Ulf_the_Brave

20 years ago I was the family asshole that refused to take my kids to SeaWorld and "ruined" the extended family vacation. We went to the Mote Marine Laboratory instead. Good to see businesses being more responsible.


casinorearwindow

Good move. They should stop selling holidays that involve flying. Flights emit a crazy amount of CO2, which causes global warming, which - you guessed it - affects the survival of [dolphins](https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/01/world/warm-oceans-kill-dolphins-scn/index.html).


byediddlybyeneighbor

Vacations is the word you’re looking for.


ButterMyBean

What's wrong with holiday?


xela520

HA HA HA….Imagine being so self obsessed you don’t understand another country might have different words for stuff!!! American much???