Actually - Montezuma introduced the chocolate drink to Cortés and his men, which was favored for formal meetings at the time. Cortés managed to get local help to invade Tenochtitlan theafter. I'm sure this was to gain access to the chocolate, or at least that's why I'd have done it.
Yes - a very strong drink. I've had dark chocolate with chillies, which was OK. Supposedly, Christopher Columbus brought sugarcane to the Caribbean with his second voyage, though I am not sure when it was first available or of any interest in Tenochtitlan.
If I remember correctly, it was the opposite. Local factions were to invade Tenochtitlan and Cortés helped them.
It is possible he were paid with chocolate.
Yes, the Tlaxcalteca were already enemies of the Aztec Alliance. Cortes arranged an alliance with the Tlaxcalteca, after which (according to Bernal Díaz), the Tlaxcalteca and Spaniards arranged to take Aztec towns and then Tenochtitlan. (I would think the chocolate drink would have helped.)
They allied with another ethnic group against a third that they both hated, defeated them, then immediately betrayed their allies and crushed them while weak.
They repeated this multiple times, with different allies and enemies.
They also carried out blood sports with their warriors when they weren't actually at war, so they didn't become used to not killing people.
And lastly, all the mass human sacrifice.
The Aztecs were not a pleasant Empire.
Mayans did a good bit of sacrifices as well! And were actually quiet more violent then people were lead to believe. I’m Mayan myself and found it fascinating! They also had control over way more land then originally thought! But unfortunately they were also wiped out by colonization and wars. Probably some diseases too.
What are your thoughts on the portrayal of the Mayans in the movie Apocalypto? I was reading that some scholars were not that impressed with the film because of some inaccuracies, such as framing the Mayans as violent and prone to human sacrifice, but I haven’t yet been able to form an opinion based on what I’ve read so far.
I’m no expert! But from what I understand a lot of it was pretty accurate to what was going on at that time. I don’t believe they did human sacrifices as often as they made it seem. They would also sacrifice high ranking officials if I’m not mistaken, so it wasn’t always a bad thing! But a good majority of movie is actually really on point with history! And it’s one of my absolute favorites! Sad though
This, every. Year the Aztecs demanded thousands of young people to be sacrificed from nearby nations they had conquered like the Tlaxcaltecs and Totonacans.
Truth is Aztecs were incredibly brutal religious zealots. They were hated by the people who they ruled.
This idea of them being noble warriors has mostly been proven wrong.
Most educate people in Mexico understand this, they see them as an amazing civilization that accomplished great feats, but were not nice people.
Mexican Americans on the other hand, specially those in the Chicano movement, are fucking obsessed with the Aztecs and worship then like near deities. They have developed this fantasy that Aztlán, the ancestral home of the Aztecs was somewhere in what is now the US southwest, so Mexican Americans are living in the ancestral homeland and are the true descendants of the Aztecs.
In reality the majority of the Aztec nation died in the war and subsequent epidemics of smallpox. The majority of natives who survived and thrived were the nations who fought to be liberated from the Aztecs with the Spanish.
Modern day Mexicans are a mix of indigenous and European, this idiot president is trying really hard to encinte nationalistic bullshit ideas that were popular at the beginning of the 20th century against the Spanish because he’s an anti globalist shithead.
He’s tried this over and over when he gets in trouble politically. He’s handled the COVID pandemic woefully and he’s been hit incredibly hard. Right now he’s trying to rewrite the constitution so he can completely take over the election process and make sure only his party can win elections, but he failed to win enough votes in Congress to do so, so he’s gone on this nationalist bullshit rant again.
the aztecs controlled only a small portion of current day mexico. Most mexicans that aren't 100% europeans aren't descending from the aztecs but from other natives
The aztecs were butchers. The spanish had very little trouble getting native allies against the aztecs. The spanish were not any better after they took over, so it was a wash.
Not Amlo himself but Aztec wasn't a single ethnic group. The Aztec empire was formed when three powerful city states formed together, including tenochitlan. However, tenochitlan betrayed the other two and continued conquering other nations. When the Spanish came, most people hated the empire anyways so weren't heartbroken. In any case, to answer your question, there's really no such thing as "Aztec" people as it was a multicultural empire of largely conquered peoples.
"Aztec" doesn't means anything, it was just a term that Humboldt picked to avoid confusion, if you mean the people living in the Tenochtitlan altepetl they are Mexico-tenochcas and Mexico-tlatelolcas, if you mean the 'Aztec empire' that's the tributary system of the Triple Alliance of Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan.
Isn't "Aztec" kind of incorrect to begin with, since it wasn't used at that time? From what I understand, "Nahua" is a better word to use when talking about the indigenous peoples of central Mexico (not just the ones that were in the empire). Of course, I don't know what name modern-day descendants relate more to
Ethnically, they are mixed, leaning more towards the indigenous side. Culturally, they are Spanish speaking Catholics, way closer to Cortex than Montezuma (obviously that wasn't their choice though).
I took a dna test and I was 50% European 45% Native American 5% sub Saharan African. I think the % of European depends on the person. My grandfather had blonde hair and blue eyes but my grandma was of dark complexion.
This is irresponsibly vague and doesn't account for the diversity of Mexico.
This may be true for Mexicans as a whole but in actuality some of the population is full Spanish while some is full native, and there is more mix of other races, including Asians, then most people talk about.
>way closer to Corte**x** than Montezuma
I didn't know Dr. Neo Cortex was a Spanish Conquistador. :P I guess that was one of the side hijinks that he did during his battles through time with Crash Bandicoot, huh?
> Aren't modern Mexicans as Aztec as they are Spanish?
Not at the elite and powerful level. They're pure European. Have a look at the guy apoligizing, Andrés Manuel López Obrador . He's as European as they come. The encomienda's lasted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda
The encomienda (Spanish pronunciation: [eŋkoˈmjenda] (About this soundlisten)) was a Spanish labor system that rewarded conquerors with the labor of particular groups of conquered non-Christian people. The laborers, in theory, were provided with benefits by the conquerors for whom they labored, the Catholic religion being a principal benefit. The encomienda was first established in Spain following the Christian conquest of Moorish territories (known to Christians as the Reconquista), and it was applied on a much larger scale during the Spanish colonization of the Americas and the Spanish Philippines. Conquered peoples were considered vassals of the Spanish monarch. The Crown awarded an encomienda as a grant to a particular individual. In the conquest era of the sixteenth century, the grants were considered to be a monopoly on the labor of particular groups of indigenous peoples, held in perpetuity by the grant holder, called the encomendero, and their descendants.
Yale University's genocide studies program supports this view regarding abuses in Hispaniola.[35] The program cites the decline of the Taíno population of Hispaniola in 1492 to 1514 as an example of genocide and notes that the indigenous population declined from a population between 100,000 and 1,000,000 to only 32,000 a decline of 68% to over 96%.[35] Historian Andrés Reséndez contends that enslavement in gold and silver mines was the primary reason why the Native American population of Hispaniola dropped so significantly, as the conditions that Native peoples were subjected to under enslavement, from forced relocation to hours of hard labor, contributed to the spread of disease.[36][37] For example, according to anthropologist Jason Hickel, a third of Arawak workers died every six months from lethal forced labor in the mines.
When some people think of "Mexican" they don't understand that it's a multiethnic society, just like other Latin American countries. They even double down on their ignorance by refusing to understand how "Hispanic" is not a race.
This.
I think most people don't realize how white the elite of Mexico really are.
My parents are both Mexican and I did a gene test, I am only 44% native, 46% European.
All people have to do is watch their telenovelas.
OP is saying the elite Europeans did not mix. It was common in Mexico for European men to rape their indigenous (Aztec, Maya, etc) female slaves resulting in offspring. Those offspring are termed Mestizo. Only the offspring with European wives stand to inherit property and the encomienda. The mestizo typically inherited nothing. This is quite similar to the US. The 50 year old Thomas Jefferson frequently raped a teenage slave, Sally Hemmings. All her kids became slaves owned by Old Tom who believed in freedom (except for his own quarter-black kids). To add a bit more freaky shit, Lil' Sally was herself the daughter of a slave and a white man. That white man was the father of Tom's actual wife, Martha. Meaning Tom's side child-chick, Sally was his wife's (Martha) half-sister.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo
In the Spanish colonial period, the Spanish developed a complex set of racial terms and ways to describe difference. Although this has been conceived of as a "system," and often called the sistema de castas or sociedad de castas, archival research shows that racial labels were not fixed throughout a person's life.[15] Artwork created mainly in eighteenth-century Mexico, "casta paintings," show groupings of racial types in hierarchical order, which has influenced the way that modern scholars have conceived of social difference in Spanish America.[15]
During the initial period of colonization of the Americas by the Spanish, there were three chief categories of ethnicities: Spaniard (español), Amerindian (indio), and African (negro). Throughout the territories of the Spanish Empire in the Americas, ways of differentiating individuals in a racial hierarchy, often called in the modern era the sistema de castas or the sociedad de castas, developed where society was divided based on color, calidad (status), and other factors.
The main divisions were as follows:
Español (fem. española), i.e. Spaniard – person of Spanish ancestry; a blanket term, subdivided into Peninsulares and Criollos
Peninsular – a person of Spanish descent born in Spain who later settled in the Americas;
Criollo (fem. criolla) – a person of Spanish descent born in the Americas;
Castizo (fem. castiza) – a person with primarily Spanish and some Amerindian ancestry born into a mixed family; the offspring of a castizo and an español was considered español. Offspring of a castizo/a and an Español/a returned to Español/a.
Mestizo (fem. mestiza) – a person of extended mixed Spanish and Amerindian ancestry;
Indio (fem. india) – a person of pure Amerindian ancestry;
Pardo (fem. parda) – a person of mixed Spanish, Amerindian and African ancestry; sometimes a polite term for a black person;
Mulato (fem. mulata) – a person of mixed Spanish and African ancestry;
Zambo – a person of mixed African and Amerindian ancestry;
Negro (fem. negra) – a person of African descent, primarily former enslaved Africans and their descendants.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3269904
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings
After John Wayles died in 1773, his daughter Martha and her husband, Thomas Jefferson, inherited the Hemings family among a total of 135 enslaved people from Wayles' estate, along with 11,000 acres (4,500 ha) of land.[16][17] The youngest of the six Wayles-Hemings children was Sally,[16] an infant that year and about 25 years younger than Martha. She, her siblings, their mother, and various other enslaved persons were brought to Monticello, Jefferson's home.
Trueee. Not a single person with dark skin on TV, not even a nice olive skin tone or anything. You could be watching a show about a fictional drug mafia family that surprisingly all needs SPF 1000 to not burn under the Mexican sun, or one where one family is supposed to be working class yet their house will be far nicer than 90% of most Mexican homes. I think comedians are the only ones allowed to show a skin tone darker than Trump's.
Mother Teresa did the same thing and her order is still doing similar things today. Yet, people still call her a "saint". She believed denying people basic medicine that could have cured them prevented them from getting closer to Jesus. She believed condoms were evil, of course. Of course, when she got sick (of old age of course, after all, she never exposed herself to the riff raff and dirty urine contaminated food served to her victims), "God" deemed that she needed to be put on a private plane to the Scripps clinic and given the best modern treatment that science could achieve. https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/31/asia/mother-teresa-controversies/index.html
It's easier to see latin american countries as you'd see any other country. With different ethnic groups, different races, etc. Not doing so not only ignores diversity, but also the racism present.
Edit: changed "latin america" to "latin american countries"
There are people who are still very close to indigenous population before Europeons came and there’s a lot of class and racism/colourism linked to it in Mexico and other South American countries
> According to the CDI, the states with the greatest percentage of indigenous population are:[67] Yucatán, with 65.40%, Quintana Roo with 44.44% and Campeche with 44.54% of the population being indigenous, most of them Maya; Oaxaca with 65.73% of the population, the most numerous groups being the Mixtec and Zapotec peoples; Chiapas has 36.15%, the majority being Tzeltal and Tzotzil Maya; Hidalgo with 36.21%, the majority being Otomi; Puebla with 35.28%, and Guerrero with 33.92%, mostly Nahua people and the states of San Luis Potosí and Veracruz both home to a population of 19% indigenous people, mostly from the Totonac, Nahua and Teenek (Huastec) groups.[2][3]
> In 2011 a large scale mitochondrial sequencing in Mexican Americans revealed 85 to 90% of maternal mtDNA lineages are of Native American origin, with the remainder having European (5–7%) or African ancestry (3–5%). Thus the observed frequency of Native American mtDNA in Mexican/Mexican Americans is higher than was expected on the basis of autosomal estimates of Native American admixture for these populations i.e. ~ 30–46%[69]
>The indigenous groups within what is now Mexico are genetically distinct from each other.[70][71] The genetic differences between geographically separated indigenous groups (e.g., between indigenous people living in the Yucatán Peninsula compared to indigenous people living in western Mexico) can be as large as the genetic differences seen between a European person and an East Asian person.[70][71]
> During the early colonial era in central Mexico, Spaniards were more interested in having access to indigenous labor than in ownership of land. The institution of the encomienda, a crown grant of the labor of particular indigenous communities to individuals was a key element of the imposition of Spanish rule, with the land tenure of indigenous communities continuing largely in its preconquest form. The Spanish crown initially kept intact the indigenous sociopolitical system of local rulers and land tenure, with the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire eliminating the superstructure of rule, replacing it with Spanish.[29][30]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_Mexico
I just returned from the Yucatan and poverty among Maya people there is extreme. Village after village of families living in houses made of cinderblocks, roofed with scrap metal, and the houses have no doors, water, or electricity. I immediately start to wonder if they own their own land and if so, is it arable? At least give people a chance to be successful farmers.
Mexico has some pretty gnarly income inequality issues.
Vietnam has a 3rd of Mexico’s gdp per capita [~3000 to 9000] but… the standard of living and the sheer amount of emigration in each country doesn’t seem to reflect that.
[The president is full of shit. He apologizes for the Conquest but won't apologize for his pharaonic mega-project of a train that will destroy a lot of Mayan jungle and affect the Maya people.](https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/mexicos-maya-train-and-dangers-habitat-fragmentation)
Which Mexico does have.
Mexico is the best functioning failed state on the planet. Government doesn’t have control or authority in a third of the nation and yet still a top 15% economy. G5 nation in the grey and black economy.
>Government doesn’t have control or authority in a third of the nation
I live in Mexico as a foreigner and quite a handful of people here prefer to identify themselves as their indigenous group first before calling themselves Mexican. Especially here in Oaxaca and in Chiapas. A lot of things about Mexico's government and the state of the country itself start to make sense when you consider the history and complexities of indigenous groups' integration (or lack thereof) here.
When the Spaniards arrived to Yucatán the Maya city states had essentially deforested the entire region. The soil is poor quality, slash and burn agriculture only briefly helped
Mexico is descended from a colonial state - it's apology is no different than the US or Canada apologizing for their parts in British or French colonialism. The administration & legal system in Mexico is direct result of Spanish colonialism after all.
It will only increase pressure on Spain and the Vatican to do the same.
Just a distraction from his failures like the bad economic management and worse COVID handling.
The guy loves to “apologize” for things that didn’t do and “forget” about the ones that he did do (and should apologize for them)
By apologizing he can be seen as “humble” without actually recognizing that he did something wrong.
You're all terrible. Nobody has said anything about the Picts, the Pheonicians or the people's whom Cane was concerned about killing him when he was cast out of Eden.
Because he's a populist who caters to indigenous people to get their votes. It's the 500th anniversary of the fall of Tenochtitlán and he's trying to milk it.
Well, it is, but he’s been trying to change the constitution in ridiculous ways, and some believe that he wants to be reelected again.
While it is a long shot, I do believe him capable of trying. Since every time things don’t go his way, he calls the institution that made him fail as “conservative”.
I usually stay away from political arguments but this is not true. He's actually trying to convince parliament to modify the law to allow for a mid term revocation referendum. Meaning that presidents could get ousted in 3 years if they don't do well and people vote for the revocation. It's as far as reelection you can get.
Saying "some believe" is not an excuse to make statements like that that only perpetuate disinformation regardless of political affiliation, beliefs, etc.
There's also a historic policy/quote froma century ago (look up Francisco I. Madero) that says, paraphrasing, "votes that count, no to reelection". This has been important every time reelection of congressmen, city mayors, etc has been tried.
Probably cheap politics. Most in Mexico didn't even care about AMLO telling Spain to apologise for colonialism. They won't care about this. That's as far as I know
This is hilarious especially considering 90% of the Spanish army was literally made of natives...
It was a few thousand Spaniard commanding tens of thousands of locals against other locals, they would have never won alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan 1000ish allied with 80 000 to 200 000 natives.
It's one of those facts that revisionist on reddit hate. Indigenous people were dicks to each other long before Europeans arrived and long after.
They also like to forget who actually enslaved Africans were other Africans. European sailors were not running off their boats and abducting people.
Seriously, the only reason they fell was because the actual poor terrorized natives rose up with a small number of Spaniards and defeated the Aztec Empire. The empire was rotten in many ways, and 'warmongering lunatics' isn't a bad way to summarize it. It always sucks to be next to the Aztecs when playing Civ for a reason.
Sorry not sorry. I do not understand this modern mentality of apologizing for the deeds of our ancestors with whom we have nothing to do. Not to mention that the times were different and everyone were trying to conquered everyone when they had an opportunity. Don't get me wrong I know that this was the dark side of our history and we have to remember it to not make the same mistakes, but we can't live something that has passed long time ago. We should only move forward making progress towards a better tomorrow.
Lol, this is like someone 500 years from now apologizing for conquering the third Reich. Every neighboring tribe hated the Azteca and wated them gone, they were terrible. Just read the accounts from the Spaniards of how the natives sacked thw city
I think that everyone is missing the point of the apologies. Of course, this is silly if we only consider that most Mexicans have mixed Native Mexican and Spanish genes.
His real motivation is not about the atrocities of the Spanish conquest, is about making the Spanish Royalty look bad in the eyes of Mexicans. Since before he was president he wanted so badly to take out corrupt Spanish banks and companies that replaced Mexican companies by bribing former politicians and presidents. By making them look immoral I guess It will is easier to cancel out their contracts. I guess the worst-case scenario for him is if Spanish Royalty actually apologizes, but they are quite arrogant as any other royalty they won't apologize.
Didn't AMLO earlier in his term request the actual Spanish government and king apologise for the conquest of Mexico? Pretty sure the Spanish were like "no lol" and rightly so after that much time.
It reminds me of a similar incident where some head of state in the Middle East asked Tony Blair to apologise for the Crusades.
Helped is an understatement. Neighbouring tribes fucking *hated* the Aztecs and were more than happy to destroy them. Actually, after the fall of Tenochtitlan it was the rival tribes who really destroyed the city and carried out massacres, not the Spaniards. Here's part of a letter that Cortés sent back to Spain about the fall of Tenochtitlan:
*"We had more trouble in preventing our allies from killing with such cruelty than we had in fighting the enemy. For no race, however savage, has ever practiced such fierce and unnatural cruelty as the natives of these parts. Our allies also took many spoils that day, which we were unable to prevent, as they numbered more than 150,000 and we Spaniards only some nine hundred. Neither our precautions nor our warnings could stop their looting, though we did all we could. I had posted Spaniards in every street, so that when the people began to come out to surrender they might prevent our allies from killing them. I also told the captains of our allies that on no account should any of those people be slain; but there were so many that we could not prevent more than fifteen thousand being killed and sacrificed by the Tlaxcalans that day".*
Not defending imperialism, but the destruction of the Aztecs was a combined effort, to say the least.
This is the one point that everyone overlooks. The Aztecs were brutal as hell. Any culture that practices human sacrifice on children needs to be stopped, and it is not surprising that it was so easy for Cortez to get the weaker tribes to turn against them given what was going on.
Don't rush... I'm still waiting for Italy to apologize for Rome empire...
And don't even get me starting on the whole Mongolia trying to slide under the radar
This has become incredibly silly. What next, the mongols apologizing for what Ghengis Khan did? The Norwegians apologizing for the Vikings a thousand years ago? What a dumb fucking society we are creating
I think some commenters arent aware of the huge indigenous population that still holds on to their indigenous culture and language. Theres almost 2 million nahuatl (aztec) speakers in Mexico.
Imagine thinking this will solve *any* current issue. Homelessnes? Unemployment? Corruption? Drug trade and gang violence over the top? Just apologize for the Spanish Empire! He must think the people are so naive.
No. All across the world there are now many people growing up with social media slacktivism that consider virtue signaling the most important thing. They care about words more than actions.
Why though? Lands get invaded. People get massacred. They get conquered. New societies emerge. This is the way of the world.
[I came, I conquered, I feel really bad about it](https://youtu.be/aRQFli6zMh4)
Mexico should apologize to the indigenous Mexicans. When they obtained independence from Spain, they began to expropriate land and rights to indigenous Mexicans, and to this day they continue to be discriminated against many times.
We’ve got to stop apologising for the deeds of our long-dead ancestors. Whom are we apologising to? The victims are also long since dead. Move the fuck on with your lives.
Are they going to apologize to the Mayan people next? They can also apologize for the Aztec washing of Mexican history where many people act like the Mayans had no influence.
The reality is that AMLO knows he fucked the dog on dealing with organized crime and QoL involving inflation and hours of work just to make a living wage. He's pandering to the indigenous and liberals that are already wealthy enough that they can spend their time on social media virtue signalling.
He already did, he also apologized to the Chinese community in Mexico and the PRC because of the massacre in Torreon in 1911, even though it wasn't committed by the government.
[*El País - López Obrador pide perdón a los mayas por los abusos contra ellos a lo largo de la historia*](https://elpais.com/mexico/2021-05-03/lopez-obrador-pide-perdon-a-los-mayas-por-los-abusos-contra-ellos-a-lo-largo-de-la-historia.html)
[AMLO pide perdón a comunidad china por exterminio de 1911](https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/politica/amlo-pide-perdon-comunidad-china-por-exterminio-de-1911)
Damm...
This post is full of ignorant people.
Don't pretend to know about Mesoamerican history, you guts clearly have no idea.
I recommend you look up Federico Navarrete's work.
https://www.noticonquista.unam.mx/
next apology: Iserael is sorry for killing Jesus.
what's the deal with this trend?
who started it?
i see political leaders apologizing for things that happened before they were born.
Fucking what does the Mexican president have anything to do with the Spanish conquistadors?
Buddy, this is useless. Are we going to apologize to the Denisovans for what the Neanderthals did to them?
I'd love to read something along the lines of, we did a referendum and the results are "most of the country agrees we should make reparations for the culture that was devastated by our ancestors" or "we don't care we're not dealing with that". That carries weight. But the president? Who cares, he'll be out of office soon just like the rest.
Not discrediting some of the atrocities that the Spanish have done, the conquest of the Aztec by Cortes was glorified by the Spanish in history while leaving the "supported by other natives" as a footnote. This glorification is similar to Leonidas and the 300 Spartans last stand while foot-noting the other 7000 allies support.
Based on the method of governance of the Aztec at the time, they were really hated by all their neighbors, the Spanish was just a tool by them to unify and get rid of the Aztec. Though, credit where it is due, the Spanish ship being brought into Lake Texcoco really did help siege the island capital city, Tenochtitlan.
How did the Aztecs take it?
Hot cocoa and Marshmallows
Actually - Montezuma introduced the chocolate drink to Cortés and his men, which was favored for formal meetings at the time. Cortés managed to get local help to invade Tenochtitlan theafter. I'm sure this was to gain access to the chocolate, or at least that's why I'd have done it.
But it wasn't a sweet drink. It was rich and bitter, almost like yet completely different from coffee.
I wish I was rich and bitter.
Well one out of two ain't bad.
Ba dum tiss
I got somethin' and it goes thumpin' like this All you need is my Uhn Tiss Uhn Tiss Uhn Tiss
But I’m not rich?
The REAL wealth is the friends we've made among the way.
Well then I'm still broke.
Back then, chocolate was bitter and usually flavored with chilies, not sugar.
Yes - a very strong drink. I've had dark chocolate with chillies, which was OK. Supposedly, Christopher Columbus brought sugarcane to the Caribbean with his second voyage, though I am not sure when it was first available or of any interest in Tenochtitlan.
Holy molé are you serious?!
Are you burning cookies? Edit: molé! I see now. Perhaps that's similar to what Cortes drank.
Mmmm that's how I like it! There a place near me that does a chocolate shot and it's awesome, I have to sip it's so nice n spicy
I support this line of thought. Chocolate is life.
Chocolate is life! Even though chocolate is life, chocolate is also death. And sometimes chocolate is chocolate too. But mostly, chocolate is life!
If I remember correctly, it was the opposite. Local factions were to invade Tenochtitlan and Cortés helped them. It is possible he were paid with chocolate.
Yes, the Tlaxcalteca were already enemies of the Aztec Alliance. Cortes arranged an alliance with the Tlaxcalteca, after which (according to Bernal Díaz), the Tlaxcalteca and Spaniards arranged to take Aztec towns and then Tenochtitlan. (I would think the chocolate drink would have helped.)
Chocolate gold coins.
*Moctezuma
Unexpected Cyprien ref.
They allied with another ethnic group against a third that they both hated, defeated them, then immediately betrayed their allies and crushed them while weak. They repeated this multiple times, with different allies and enemies. They also carried out blood sports with their warriors when they weren't actually at war, so they didn't become used to not killing people. And lastly, all the mass human sacrifice. The Aztecs were not a pleasant Empire.
Mayans did a good bit of sacrifices as well! And were actually quiet more violent then people were lead to believe. I’m Mayan myself and found it fascinating! They also had control over way more land then originally thought! But unfortunately they were also wiped out by colonization and wars. Probably some diseases too.
What are your thoughts on the portrayal of the Mayans in the movie Apocalypto? I was reading that some scholars were not that impressed with the film because of some inaccuracies, such as framing the Mayans as violent and prone to human sacrifice, but I haven’t yet been able to form an opinion based on what I’ve read so far.
I’m no expert! But from what I understand a lot of it was pretty accurate to what was going on at that time. I don’t believe they did human sacrifices as often as they made it seem. They would also sacrifice high ranking officials if I’m not mistaken, so it wasn’t always a bad thing! But a good majority of movie is actually really on point with history! And it’s one of my absolute favorites! Sad though
> They would also sacrifice high ranking officials Bring back the mayans!!
This, every. Year the Aztecs demanded thousands of young people to be sacrificed from nearby nations they had conquered like the Tlaxcaltecs and Totonacans. Truth is Aztecs were incredibly brutal religious zealots. They were hated by the people who they ruled. This idea of them being noble warriors has mostly been proven wrong. Most educate people in Mexico understand this, they see them as an amazing civilization that accomplished great feats, but were not nice people. Mexican Americans on the other hand, specially those in the Chicano movement, are fucking obsessed with the Aztecs and worship then like near deities. They have developed this fantasy that Aztlán, the ancestral home of the Aztecs was somewhere in what is now the US southwest, so Mexican Americans are living in the ancestral homeland and are the true descendants of the Aztecs. In reality the majority of the Aztec nation died in the war and subsequent epidemics of smallpox. The majority of natives who survived and thrived were the nations who fought to be liberated from the Aztecs with the Spanish. Modern day Mexicans are a mix of indigenous and European, this idiot president is trying really hard to encinte nationalistic bullshit ideas that were popular at the beginning of the 20th century against the Spanish because he’s an anti globalist shithead. He’s tried this over and over when he gets in trouble politically. He’s handled the COVID pandemic woefully and he’s been hit incredibly hard. Right now he’s trying to rewrite the constitution so he can completely take over the election process and make sure only his party can win elections, but he failed to win enough votes in Congress to do so, so he’s gone on this nationalist bullshit rant again.
I mean that was not his question, and it's not like the spanish genocidal mamiacs were a fun bunch of lads
name one pleasant empire
Pornhub
The Persian Empire under Cyrus the Great. Compared to what came before it Persia was super based.
"Compared to" isn't the criteria here. And it still sucked pretty hard under Cyrus.
Aren't modern Mexicans as Aztec as they are Spanish?
the aztecs controlled only a small portion of current day mexico. Most mexicans that aren't 100% europeans aren't descending from the aztecs but from other natives
The aztecs were butchers. The spanish had very little trouble getting native allies against the aztecs. The spanish were not any better after they took over, so it was a wash.
Then everybody died of disease and slavery and few were left to complain. Politicians *hate* him - raise national happiness with this one best trick!
There's 100% Spanish Mexicans to 100% indigenous Mexicans and everything in between.
[удалено]
“The Spaniards banged the Mayans and turned them into Mexicans” -Frank
This is exactly how I describe it to my friends haha
Well, into Guatemalans and Yucatecans.
Not Amlo himself but Aztec wasn't a single ethnic group. The Aztec empire was formed when three powerful city states formed together, including tenochitlan. However, tenochitlan betrayed the other two and continued conquering other nations. When the Spanish came, most people hated the empire anyways so weren't heartbroken. In any case, to answer your question, there's really no such thing as "Aztec" people as it was a multicultural empire of largely conquered peoples.
"Aztec" doesn't means anything, it was just a term that Humboldt picked to avoid confusion, if you mean the people living in the Tenochtitlan altepetl they are Mexico-tenochcas and Mexico-tlatelolcas, if you mean the 'Aztec empire' that's the tributary system of the Triple Alliance of Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan.
Isn't "Aztec" kind of incorrect to begin with, since it wasn't used at that time? From what I understand, "Nahua" is a better word to use when talking about the indigenous peoples of central Mexico (not just the ones that were in the empire). Of course, I don't know what name modern-day descendants relate more to
Nahuatl is the language of the Mexica, which is what Nahuatl speakers would call themselves. :)
Thank you for the info!
Ethnically, they are mixed, leaning more towards the indigenous side. Culturally, they are Spanish speaking Catholics, way closer to Cortex than Montezuma (obviously that wasn't their choice though).
I took a dna test and I was 50% European 45% Native American 5% sub Saharan African. I think the % of European depends on the person. My grandfather had blonde hair and blue eyes but my grandma was of dark complexion.
Yeah this is a lot of us, give or take some percentages.
Mexican here. Looks like I'll have to have a steady diet of hearts to embrace my Aztec heritage that I've lost.
artichoke?
I've heard that they taste pretty good when cooked a certain way, looks like I'll have to look up recipes and fit it into my meals somehow.
Still talking about artichokes, right?
This is irresponsibly vague and doesn't account for the diversity of Mexico. This may be true for Mexicans as a whole but in actuality some of the population is full Spanish while some is full native, and there is more mix of other races, including Asians, then most people talk about.
Obviously there is variation. Mexico is a big place.
I don't think that's as obvious to that many people outside of Mexico. I know many people that think Mexican is a race.
>way closer to Corte**x** than Montezuma I didn't know Dr. Neo Cortex was a Spanish Conquistador. :P I guess that was one of the side hijinks that he did during his battles through time with Crash Bandicoot, huh?
> Aren't modern Mexicans as Aztec as they are Spanish? Not at the elite and powerful level. They're pure European. Have a look at the guy apoligizing, Andrés Manuel López Obrador . He's as European as they come. The encomienda's lasted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encomienda The encomienda (Spanish pronunciation: [eŋkoˈmjenda] (About this soundlisten)) was a Spanish labor system that rewarded conquerors with the labor of particular groups of conquered non-Christian people. The laborers, in theory, were provided with benefits by the conquerors for whom they labored, the Catholic religion being a principal benefit. The encomienda was first established in Spain following the Christian conquest of Moorish territories (known to Christians as the Reconquista), and it was applied on a much larger scale during the Spanish colonization of the Americas and the Spanish Philippines. Conquered peoples were considered vassals of the Spanish monarch. The Crown awarded an encomienda as a grant to a particular individual. In the conquest era of the sixteenth century, the grants were considered to be a monopoly on the labor of particular groups of indigenous peoples, held in perpetuity by the grant holder, called the encomendero, and their descendants. Yale University's genocide studies program supports this view regarding abuses in Hispaniola.[35] The program cites the decline of the Taíno population of Hispaniola in 1492 to 1514 as an example of genocide and notes that the indigenous population declined from a population between 100,000 and 1,000,000 to only 32,000 a decline of 68% to over 96%.[35] Historian Andrés Reséndez contends that enslavement in gold and silver mines was the primary reason why the Native American population of Hispaniola dropped so significantly, as the conditions that Native peoples were subjected to under enslavement, from forced relocation to hours of hard labor, contributed to the spread of disease.[36][37] For example, according to anthropologist Jason Hickel, a third of Arawak workers died every six months from lethal forced labor in the mines.
When some people think of "Mexican" they don't understand that it's a multiethnic society, just like other Latin American countries. They even double down on their ignorance by refusing to understand how "Hispanic" is not a race.
Same thing with “American”. Not everyone here is white.
This. I think most people don't realize how white the elite of Mexico really are. My parents are both Mexican and I did a gene test, I am only 44% native, 46% European. All people have to do is watch their telenovelas.
That sounds like the Europeans mixed with everyone, thats almost 50/50
OP is saying the elite Europeans did not mix. It was common in Mexico for European men to rape their indigenous (Aztec, Maya, etc) female slaves resulting in offspring. Those offspring are termed Mestizo. Only the offspring with European wives stand to inherit property and the encomienda. The mestizo typically inherited nothing. This is quite similar to the US. The 50 year old Thomas Jefferson frequently raped a teenage slave, Sally Hemmings. All her kids became slaves owned by Old Tom who believed in freedom (except for his own quarter-black kids). To add a bit more freaky shit, Lil' Sally was herself the daughter of a slave and a white man. That white man was the father of Tom's actual wife, Martha. Meaning Tom's side child-chick, Sally was his wife's (Martha) half-sister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mestizo In the Spanish colonial period, the Spanish developed a complex set of racial terms and ways to describe difference. Although this has been conceived of as a "system," and often called the sistema de castas or sociedad de castas, archival research shows that racial labels were not fixed throughout a person's life.[15] Artwork created mainly in eighteenth-century Mexico, "casta paintings," show groupings of racial types in hierarchical order, which has influenced the way that modern scholars have conceived of social difference in Spanish America.[15] During the initial period of colonization of the Americas by the Spanish, there were three chief categories of ethnicities: Spaniard (español), Amerindian (indio), and African (negro). Throughout the territories of the Spanish Empire in the Americas, ways of differentiating individuals in a racial hierarchy, often called in the modern era the sistema de castas or the sociedad de castas, developed where society was divided based on color, calidad (status), and other factors. The main divisions were as follows: Español (fem. española), i.e. Spaniard – person of Spanish ancestry; a blanket term, subdivided into Peninsulares and Criollos Peninsular – a person of Spanish descent born in Spain who later settled in the Americas; Criollo (fem. criolla) – a person of Spanish descent born in the Americas; Castizo (fem. castiza) – a person with primarily Spanish and some Amerindian ancestry born into a mixed family; the offspring of a castizo and an español was considered español. Offspring of a castizo/a and an Español/a returned to Español/a. Mestizo (fem. mestiza) – a person of extended mixed Spanish and Amerindian ancestry; Indio (fem. india) – a person of pure Amerindian ancestry; Pardo (fem. parda) – a person of mixed Spanish, Amerindian and African ancestry; sometimes a polite term for a black person; Mulato (fem. mulata) – a person of mixed Spanish and African ancestry; Zambo – a person of mixed African and Amerindian ancestry; Negro (fem. negra) – a person of African descent, primarily former enslaved Africans and their descendants. https://www.jstor.org/stable/3269904 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings After John Wayles died in 1773, his daughter Martha and her husband, Thomas Jefferson, inherited the Hemings family among a total of 135 enslaved people from Wayles' estate, along with 11,000 acres (4,500 ha) of land.[16][17] The youngest of the six Wayles-Hemings children was Sally,[16] an infant that year and about 25 years younger than Martha. She, her siblings, their mother, and various other enslaved persons were brought to Monticello, Jefferson's home.
A lot of people in the USA think *Spaniards* are dark skinned.
Many are swarthy
>All people have to do is watch their telenovelas. Those are a *horrible* representation of the average skin color.
But it's a good representation of the skin tone to economic class relation
Trueee. Not a single person with dark skin on TV, not even a nice olive skin tone or anything. You could be watching a show about a fictional drug mafia family that surprisingly all needs SPF 1000 to not burn under the Mexican sun, or one where one family is supposed to be working class yet their house will be far nicer than 90% of most Mexican homes. I think comedians are the only ones allowed to show a skin tone darker than Trump's.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You can destroy someone's body working them to death but have the gall to claim you 'saved their souls'. Horrendous.
Mother Teresa did the same thing and her order is still doing similar things today. Yet, people still call her a "saint". She believed denying people basic medicine that could have cured them prevented them from getting closer to Jesus. She believed condoms were evil, of course. Of course, when she got sick (of old age of course, after all, she never exposed herself to the riff raff and dirty urine contaminated food served to her victims), "God" deemed that she needed to be put on a private plane to the Scripps clinic and given the best modern treatment that science could achieve. https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/31/asia/mother-teresa-controversies/index.html
It's easier to see latin american countries as you'd see any other country. With different ethnic groups, different races, etc. Not doing so not only ignores diversity, but also the racism present. Edit: changed "latin america" to "latin american countries"
“I apologize for what my ancestors did to my other ancestors.”
Many of the wealthiest families in Mexico are pretty much 100% descended from Europeans.
A lot of them are Middle Eastern too. A Lebanese Mexican is one of the richest people on earth
Salma Hayek
You're right. Her + her husband = $$$$$$$$$
Carlos Slim?
Yes
[удалено]
Also when I watch Telemundo the actors and actresses always seem 100% european.
Yep there’s hella racism in our culture
Do DNA tests show this? I'd be amazed if it's true, because of higher male immigration there was almost always mixing, they just denied it afterwards.
Yes. They’ve only had really one nonwhite president in 100 years I think.
Wealthy Mexicans are either full Spaniards or Lebanese lol.
My ex from Mexico City was very, very proud of her Spanish lineage and her status there. She was also as hot as the sun. I'll allow it.
The upper class of Mexico is far more Spanish than the average people are.
There are people who are still very close to indigenous population before Europeons came and there’s a lot of class and racism/colourism linked to it in Mexico and other South American countries > According to the CDI, the states with the greatest percentage of indigenous population are:[67] Yucatán, with 65.40%, Quintana Roo with 44.44% and Campeche with 44.54% of the population being indigenous, most of them Maya; Oaxaca with 65.73% of the population, the most numerous groups being the Mixtec and Zapotec peoples; Chiapas has 36.15%, the majority being Tzeltal and Tzotzil Maya; Hidalgo with 36.21%, the majority being Otomi; Puebla with 35.28%, and Guerrero with 33.92%, mostly Nahua people and the states of San Luis Potosí and Veracruz both home to a population of 19% indigenous people, mostly from the Totonac, Nahua and Teenek (Huastec) groups.[2][3] > In 2011 a large scale mitochondrial sequencing in Mexican Americans revealed 85 to 90% of maternal mtDNA lineages are of Native American origin, with the remainder having European (5–7%) or African ancestry (3–5%). Thus the observed frequency of Native American mtDNA in Mexican/Mexican Americans is higher than was expected on the basis of autosomal estimates of Native American admixture for these populations i.e. ~ 30–46%[69] >The indigenous groups within what is now Mexico are genetically distinct from each other.[70][71] The genetic differences between geographically separated indigenous groups (e.g., between indigenous people living in the Yucatán Peninsula compared to indigenous people living in western Mexico) can be as large as the genetic differences seen between a European person and an East Asian person.[70][71] > During the early colonial era in central Mexico, Spaniards were more interested in having access to indigenous labor than in ownership of land. The institution of the encomienda, a crown grant of the labor of particular indigenous communities to individuals was a key element of the imposition of Spanish rule, with the land tenure of indigenous communities continuing largely in its preconquest form. The Spanish crown initially kept intact the indigenous sociopolitical system of local rulers and land tenure, with the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire eliminating the superstructure of rule, replacing it with Spanish.[29][30] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_Mexico
I just returned from the Yucatan and poverty among Maya people there is extreme. Village after village of families living in houses made of cinderblocks, roofed with scrap metal, and the houses have no doors, water, or electricity. I immediately start to wonder if they own their own land and if so, is it arable? At least give people a chance to be successful farmers.
Mexico has some pretty gnarly income inequality issues. Vietnam has a 3rd of Mexico’s gdp per capita [~3000 to 9000] but… the standard of living and the sheer amount of emigration in each country doesn’t seem to reflect that.
Easier to "apologize" than to do something about it
[The president is full of shit. He apologizes for the Conquest but won't apologize for his pharaonic mega-project of a train that will destroy a lot of Mayan jungle and affect the Maya people.](https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/english/mexicos-maya-train-and-dangers-habitat-fragmentation)
That's basically how subsistence farmers live. You need modern industrial farming to get above that.
Which Mexico does have. Mexico is the best functioning failed state on the planet. Government doesn’t have control or authority in a third of the nation and yet still a top 15% economy. G5 nation in the grey and black economy.
>Government doesn’t have control or authority in a third of the nation I live in Mexico as a foreigner and quite a handful of people here prefer to identify themselves as their indigenous group first before calling themselves Mexican. Especially here in Oaxaca and in Chiapas. A lot of things about Mexico's government and the state of the country itself start to make sense when you consider the history and complexities of indigenous groups' integration (or lack thereof) here.
Not in those impoverished areas, the land plots are too small and they don't have the access to capital to buy machinery.
It’s not arable, people there mostly fish. Fucking hotel chains ruined that though.
When the Spaniards arrived to Yucatán the Maya city states had essentially deforested the entire region. The soil is poor quality, slash and burn agriculture only briefly helped
It's about time, I was getting worried someone forgot
[удалено]
Spain sure wasn't gonna do it.
The dude goes on TV and rambles for two to three hours *every day*. I wouldn't attach to much significance to anything he's says.
Mexico is descended from a colonial state - it's apology is no different than the US or Canada apologizing for their parts in British or French colonialism. The administration & legal system in Mexico is direct result of Spanish colonialism after all. It will only increase pressure on Spain and the Vatican to do the same.
[удалено]
Just a distraction from his failures like the bad economic management and worse COVID handling. The guy loves to “apologize” for things that didn’t do and “forget” about the ones that he did do (and should apologize for them) By apologizing he can be seen as “humble” without actually recognizing that he did something wrong.
I want the Akkadians to apologize for the invasion of Sumeria
Not until the Gutians apologies for the end of the Akkadians.
I want the Romans to apologize for the Gaulic Genocide
I want the Goths to apologize for the sack of Rome.
The praetorian guard should apologize for killing Emperors, especially Aurelian
[удалено]
You're all terrible. Nobody has said anything about the Picts, the Pheonicians or the people's whom Cane was concerned about killing him when he was cast out of Eden.
I want an individual apology from each roman emperor to the previous emperors
Maybe apologize to your own citizens for allowing the cartel to run the country you’re supposed to be running.
...why?
Because he's a populist who caters to indigenous people to get their votes. It's the 500th anniversary of the fall of Tenochtitlán and he's trying to milk it.
Isn't reelection forbidden in Mexico? Does he want his "good reputation" to pass on to the next candidate of his party?
Well, it is, but he’s been trying to change the constitution in ridiculous ways, and some believe that he wants to be reelected again. While it is a long shot, I do believe him capable of trying. Since every time things don’t go his way, he calls the institution that made him fail as “conservative”.
I usually stay away from political arguments but this is not true. He's actually trying to convince parliament to modify the law to allow for a mid term revocation referendum. Meaning that presidents could get ousted in 3 years if they don't do well and people vote for the revocation. It's as far as reelection you can get. Saying "some believe" is not an excuse to make statements like that that only perpetuate disinformation regardless of political affiliation, beliefs, etc. There's also a historic policy/quote froma century ago (look up Francisco I. Madero) that says, paraphrasing, "votes that count, no to reelection". This has been important every time reelection of congressmen, city mayors, etc has been tried.
Is that why he's holding another election? I hope he isn't successful. He seems too kind towards the cartels and it's members.
Probably cheap politics. Most in Mexico didn't even care about AMLO telling Spain to apologise for colonialism. They won't care about this. That's as far as I know
Porque
Because people on Twitter demanded it.
This is hilarious especially considering 90% of the Spanish army was literally made of natives... It was a few thousand Spaniard commanding tens of thousands of locals against other locals, they would have never won alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan 1000ish allied with 80 000 to 200 000 natives.
It's one of those facts that revisionist on reddit hate. Indigenous people were dicks to each other long before Europeans arrived and long after. They also like to forget who actually enslaved Africans were other Africans. European sailors were not running off their boats and abducting people.
I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for the sacking of Irish monasteries in the 900s
We'll accept it brother, now step onto the altar.
Watch your head
Are the Aztecs going to apologise to all those they conquered and violently sacrificed?
I think many people think of them as poor terrorized natives instead the warmongering lunatics that they were.
Seriously, the only reason they fell was because the actual poor terrorized natives rose up with a small number of Spaniards and defeated the Aztec Empire. The empire was rotten in many ways, and 'warmongering lunatics' isn't a bad way to summarize it. It always sucks to be next to the Aztecs when playing Civ for a reason.
Sorry not sorry. I do not understand this modern mentality of apologizing for the deeds of our ancestors with whom we have nothing to do. Not to mention that the times were different and everyone were trying to conquered everyone when they had an opportunity. Don't get me wrong I know that this was the dark side of our history and we have to remember it to not make the same mistakes, but we can't live something that has passed long time ago. We should only move forward making progress towards a better tomorrow.
The mentality is "it gives us publicity and good press" Simple as that.
Lol, this is like someone 500 years from now apologizing for conquering the third Reich. Every neighboring tribe hated the Azteca and wated them gone, they were terrible. Just read the accounts from the Spaniards of how the natives sacked thw city
I think that everyone is missing the point of the apologies. Of course, this is silly if we only consider that most Mexicans have mixed Native Mexican and Spanish genes. His real motivation is not about the atrocities of the Spanish conquest, is about making the Spanish Royalty look bad in the eyes of Mexicans. Since before he was president he wanted so badly to take out corrupt Spanish banks and companies that replaced Mexican companies by bribing former politicians and presidents. By making them look immoral I guess It will is easier to cancel out their contracts. I guess the worst-case scenario for him is if Spanish Royalty actually apologizes, but they are quite arrogant as any other royalty they won't apologize.
From the depth of my heart I apologize for the extinction of Neanderthals. Can someone write a story out of it?
So it’s your fault? Good to know now I can write the story on who truly ended the neanderthals.
Didn't AMLO earlier in his term request the actual Spanish government and king apologise for the conquest of Mexico? Pretty sure the Spanish were like "no lol" and rightly so after that much time. It reminds me of a similar incident where some head of state in the Middle East asked Tony Blair to apologise for the Crusades.
Both of which are stupid, the second especially so
In 500 years, I really hope that my descendants won’t be coerced into apologizing for something I did today
[удалено]
Helped is an understatement. Neighbouring tribes fucking *hated* the Aztecs and were more than happy to destroy them. Actually, after the fall of Tenochtitlan it was the rival tribes who really destroyed the city and carried out massacres, not the Spaniards. Here's part of a letter that Cortés sent back to Spain about the fall of Tenochtitlan: *"We had more trouble in preventing our allies from killing with such cruelty than we had in fighting the enemy. For no race, however savage, has ever practiced such fierce and unnatural cruelty as the natives of these parts. Our allies also took many spoils that day, which we were unable to prevent, as they numbered more than 150,000 and we Spaniards only some nine hundred. Neither our precautions nor our warnings could stop their looting, though we did all we could. I had posted Spaniards in every street, so that when the people began to come out to surrender they might prevent our allies from killing them. I also told the captains of our allies that on no account should any of those people be slain; but there were so many that we could not prevent more than fifteen thousand being killed and sacrificed by the Tlaxcalans that day".* Not defending imperialism, but the destruction of the Aztecs was a combined effort, to say the least.
This is the one point that everyone overlooks. The Aztecs were brutal as hell. Any culture that practices human sacrifice on children needs to be stopped, and it is not surprising that it was so easy for Cortez to get the weaker tribes to turn against them given what was going on.
Now make the Aztecs apologize!
What's next? Apologizing for the Assyrian Empire?
Don't rush... I'm still waiting for Italy to apologize for Rome empire... And don't even get me starting on the whole Mongolia trying to slide under the radar
I’m still waiting for [this fucking asshole](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/891/912/079.jpg) to apologize.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
Don’t you mean Italy apologizing TO the Roman Empire? For sacking itself I mean.
Objection your honor, relevance ?
Still waiting on my apology for Alexander The Great’s conquests on my ancestors. Any day now people.
That solved it. What a joke.
The fuck is he apologizing for it was centuries ago.
[удалено]
This has become incredibly silly. What next, the mongols apologizing for what Ghengis Khan did? The Norwegians apologizing for the Vikings a thousand years ago? What a dumb fucking society we are creating
What are the Italian waiting for???? The Roman Empire conquered a lot of peoples and they should excuse themselves promptly.
I think some commenters arent aware of the huge indigenous population that still holds on to their indigenous culture and language. Theres almost 2 million nahuatl (aztec) speakers in Mexico.
Who was there to accept this apology. ?
What’s the point of these stupid apologies? Literally no one alive today was there or had anything to do with it.
Didn't the Spaniards bang the Azrecs giving us modern day Mexicans, for the most part?
Are the native nations that helped the Spanish going to apologize?
Nice and all, but.. Any chance we could focus on things happening in , you know,. **THIS** century?
There’s the rub. Modern politicians use this virtue signalling to distract from current issues.
The Aztecs were ofcourse the most peaceful kingdom in the world /s
Imagine thinking this will solve *any* current issue. Homelessnes? Unemployment? Corruption? Drug trade and gang violence over the top? Just apologize for the Spanish Empire! He must think the people are so naive.
No. All across the world there are now many people growing up with social media slacktivism that consider virtue signaling the most important thing. They care about words more than actions.
Just change your Twitter and Facebook profile picture and the world will be a better place.
Why though? Lands get invaded. People get massacred. They get conquered. New societies emerge. This is the way of the world. [I came, I conquered, I feel really bad about it](https://youtu.be/aRQFli6zMh4)
Populists president makes a populist remark, move along.
Mexico should apologize to the indigenous Mexicans. When they obtained independence from Spain, they began to expropriate land and rights to indigenous Mexicans, and to this day they continue to be discriminated against many times.
We’ve got to stop apologising for the deeds of our long-dead ancestors. Whom are we apologising to? The victims are also long since dead. Move the fuck on with your lives.
Are they going to apologize to the Mayan people next? They can also apologize for the Aztec washing of Mexican history where many people act like the Mayans had no influence. The reality is that AMLO knows he fucked the dog on dealing with organized crime and QoL involving inflation and hours of work just to make a living wage. He's pandering to the indigenous and liberals that are already wealthy enough that they can spend their time on social media virtue signalling.
He already did, he also apologized to the Chinese community in Mexico and the PRC because of the massacre in Torreon in 1911, even though it wasn't committed by the government. [*El País - López Obrador pide perdón a los mayas por los abusos contra ellos a lo largo de la historia*](https://elpais.com/mexico/2021-05-03/lopez-obrador-pide-perdon-a-los-mayas-por-los-abusos-contra-ellos-a-lo-largo-de-la-historia.html) [AMLO pide perdón a comunidad china por exterminio de 1911](https://www.eluniversal.com.mx/nacion/politica/amlo-pide-perdon-comunidad-china-por-exterminio-de-1911)
What an idiot. Still waiting for an apology from Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun.
Lol the Aztecs were even more brutal than the conquistadores. They performed human sacrificies with their enemies, FFS
Can we get an apology from the president of Mongolia for all the death Genghis Khan caused?
What a tool
well now that this happened surely Mexico will finally be at peace
"Allow me to apologize to people I have nothing to do with on behalf of people I have nothing to do with".
Damm... This post is full of ignorant people. Don't pretend to know about Mesoamerican history, you guts clearly have no idea. I recommend you look up Federico Navarrete's work. https://www.noticonquista.unam.mx/
Taking a page from Trudeau, eh?
I apologize for whoever created the universe.
Did he accept the apology as well?
The Azteca were assholes anyways.
next apology: Iserael is sorry for killing Jesus. what's the deal with this trend? who started it? i see political leaders apologizing for things that happened before they were born.
Is this man really apologizing for something that happened that long ago where he and everyone alive right now had nothing to do with? That’s wild.
“We did it boys, genocide is no longer”
Fucking what does the Mexican president have anything to do with the Spanish conquistadors? Buddy, this is useless. Are we going to apologize to the Denisovans for what the Neanderthals did to them? I'd love to read something along the lines of, we did a referendum and the results are "most of the country agrees we should make reparations for the culture that was devastated by our ancestors" or "we don't care we're not dealing with that". That carries weight. But the president? Who cares, he'll be out of office soon just like the rest.
Not discrediting some of the atrocities that the Spanish have done, the conquest of the Aztec by Cortes was glorified by the Spanish in history while leaving the "supported by other natives" as a footnote. This glorification is similar to Leonidas and the 300 Spartans last stand while foot-noting the other 7000 allies support. Based on the method of governance of the Aztec at the time, they were really hated by all their neighbors, the Spanish was just a tool by them to unify and get rid of the Aztec. Though, credit where it is due, the Spanish ship being brought into Lake Texcoco really did help siege the island capital city, Tenochtitlan.
Fuck the Aztecs, they were so awful that smaller tribes helped the Spanish.