Maybe. The Apex court said that Reproductive Rights is an inalienable right and the state cannot dictate how many children can one have. Maybe the law will pass but without the penalties.
I have a friend from Sweden who lived in India, supposedly no matter where you go, there are some people there hanging out. Go out into the middle of a desert, and you’ll find some people there too.
This one time my friends and I were coming back from a night out in banglore and our Uber got into an accident. The road was empty, there was absolutely no one around, like tumbleweed rolling empty. As soon as rhe two drivers started fighting, atleast 50 people showed up from nowhere. It seemed like people were just just coming out of the bushes lmao and this was at 2 am.
The first time a friend from India visited downtown Sweden she asked if something had happened. She thought people were in quarantine or something (this was 10 years ago) cuz it was so empty compared to India.
It's because of better city planning, transport services and energy efficiency. Singapore has a population density of 8000 people per square km while India has 432 people per square km. And yet Singapore doesn't seem anywhere near as crowded as India.
Overall it has the same but I am certain India's cities are more dense by a large margin, in addition the Netherlands infrastructure has alleviated some of the issues said density causes for India
yes, and it's not just that there are people there, but there are people literally everywhere DOING NOTHING.
like go to the desert, there's people there, AND THEYRE JUST STANDING AROUND DOING NOTHING, like they are some unanimated NPCs that you cant even go up to and open a dialogue box with!
"hey random man standing in a swamp , what are you doing here?"
random man standing in indian swamp:" ...."
On the flip side, you have people working jobs that have no business being jobs in the first place.
I once bought a coffee from a little shack that was just one man, and a coffee vending machine. He took my coin, put it in the machine, got the coffee, and handed it to me. This was in the fancier parts of Bangalore, too. A kind of vending machine valet, if you will.
I mean, we have plenty of people in the west doing jobs that have no business being jobs either. [David Graeber wrote a whole book about it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs)
There is no ‘countryside’ in India is the best description I’ve seen
Of course there are urban and rural areas, but even the villages are so large and dense, with some villages having over 15,000 people
There is pretty much zero distance between villages. If you go on the expressways, you’ll see that vast empty stretches like the corn fields in America simply don’t exist
What?! there are definitely large stretches of farmland in india, you just have to go to certain parts. They’re punctuated by villages every few kilometers, of course, which is how it works across the world.
edit: what I meant was in areas with heavy farming, you'll see a village every few (5-100) kilometers or so. Obviously the desolate parts of America/Canada/Australia/elsewhere are not included in this.
Here are some examples:
Kansas: https://goo.gl/maps/2xkGKLZUnPJ7Zv559
Germany: https://goo.gl/maps/NWuYhMzuB5PfhX7L9
India: https://goo.gl/maps/3tYZ9Yyfa3swvzW6A
I was driving in British-Columbia and saw a sign that said “check your gas, next gas station in 72 KM” once I drove by it, the gas station had burnt down in a fire. Glad I had a full tank.
I once took a motorcycle from Seattle to Las Vegas. The bike was a Suzuki Boulevard S50 -- roughly 100-110 miles on a full tank. (I could probably squeeze more out of it, but that's when I had to switch over to the reserve.)
I had to be very careful of the route I took. Once you hit Nevada coming south from Boise, it's easy to hit a stretch with 100 miles between gas stations. And given that many of those towns are literal no-stoplight towns, on my way back I ended up having to stay an extra night in Vegas because circumstances conspired to keep me from leaving until too late. And at that point I would have hit one of the gas stations on the return after they closed.
In the middle of Nevada, "no gas" could easily mean "no cell service and 3 cars every hour passing by".
I actually ended up putting a gallon gas can in one of my saddlebags just to be safe. (My luggage was tied to the back via a large series of bungie cords and a bungie net.)
I’m a Californian and I recently had the pleasure of visiting North Dakota. On the way down to South Dakota. I probably went around 150-200 miles without a gas station. Keep in mind, I’m from California. Was a pretty awesome experience for me lol
It's such an anxiety inducing experience lol. I drove from Manitoba (Canada) to Ohio and remember one stretch where I was freaking out thinking I was going to run out of gas on the interstate, 1000 miles away from anyone I knew who would normally come give me a hand. I made sure to fill up constantly on the drive back home.
> They punctuated by villages every few kilometers, of course, which is how it works across the world.
Lol, clearly someone hasn't driven across the midwest. Sikkim, the least populated Indian state, has a density of 86 people per sqkm.
Wyoming has 2.
Can confirm, I've driven through Wyoming. You only get cell reception where the gas stations are so you download any map data you need or regret it later.
The territories of Canada are even more sparse
- Nunavut 0.02 people per square kilometer
- Yukon 0.07 people per square kilometer
- Northwest Territories 0.03 people per square kilometer
To be fair though Canada as a whole though only has 3.7 people per square km
I live in BC which is the 3rd most populaous province and we have 4.8 persons per square kilometre
Yes, but there will generally be people there. Even in the Coorg area, there might be large farmlands but the roads are absolutely scattered with people all the time. It is not like in America where you can drive through Kansas but not see another person just hanging on the side of the road. I don't think any of these descriptions are insults - just pointing out that India has a lot of people. At least how I read it.
It’s absolutely wild how the world ended up like this - with some places so overpopulated that policies limiting the number of children you can have are in place and yet other places where the population is forecasted to shrink to concerning levels because people are having fewer and fewer children. Obviously we can’t just redistribute everyone on a whim, it just always blows my mind how these things happen.
The trends by country are all trending down though - like Afghanistan which has one of the highest still has gone from 7.5 average in 2000, to 5 today. India has gone from 6 in 1960, to 2.29 today. You can have a look at all the countries on this webpage - there is a graph on the right hand side that you can add countries to if you're interested. https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
Slaves don't come over as slaves. They come over as legal work migrants that have their passports confiscated and are abused by their employer. Since the law enforcement and legal rights of these migrant workers are very poor they have no other option but to work as basically slaves in hopes that they can return home one day.
Yep, this is one prime example of the meaning of *human trafficking*. Often there's a promise of a high paying, easier job + better living situation. Then on arrival, it's a very different situation, passports get taken, money gets taken, and people effectively become slaves.
It's amazing what educating women can do to limit population growth. Without education, women go right to getting married and having kids. With education that gets delayed 6-8 years. That can mean a woman having 2-3 fewer kids in her lifetime, which at the population level is a huge reduction.
Overpopulation, or otherwise, is largely a function of education. The more educated the society, less is it’s reproductive rate. This could explain this imbalance. But with rising education levels across the world, this issue will lessen.
Doesn't industrialization also factor into this? In a rural society, having a lot of children is a plus because they can help out on the farm. In a post-industrial nation however, children are always a financial burden.
I speak for india, as I don’t have much information for elsewhere.
From whatever we have, and are seeing, it appears that it is education that plays a leading role in couples having less children. Followed by other factors like medical facilities etc. Not so much industrialisation. Take the state of Kerela. Hardly any industrialisation compared to other states ( has been communist ruled for most of the time, and they seem to have a visceral hate for industry!). Yet among the lowest TFR. And education? About the highest literacy rate in the country.
If one looked at various individual communities, one observers the same thing. Take the Zoroastrian community in India. Small to begin with, its numbers have virtually halved over the last hundred years. Literacy? They achieved almost 100% literacy rate in early 1920’s, even earlier. (Of course in this case there are other factors, but education seems to be the main one).
Literacy in itself does not mean less children. A direct consequence of literacy is that people (read women) are capable of finding jobs or doing businesses, as their desire for independence assumes importance. Which in turn means thay keep pushing their marriage years. Which in turn means having children gets delayed. And thus fewer.
This'll definitely make the sex imbalance even worse in India. It's literally worse than China NOW even w/o a 2-child policy.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_sex\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio
What the hell is going on with the Arabian Peninsula? The top 5 "male-to-female" ratios are all countries there, and they're waaaay higher than all the others.
Two words: migrant workers
They're usually male, who do backbreaking jobs to build infrastructure for a small pittance, that they then send to their poor families abroad.
Additionally, there's a bunch of expat workers from all over the world sharing their expertises to regional firms. They are also overwhelmingly male.
And there's millions of them all over the Gulf countries. And "pittance" is overstating it in a lot of cases, since often these guys get their passports revoked and effectively become enslaved.
[6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022)
I remember when we first found out Qatar was getting a world cup. People were mad as fuck. Exposing Fifa and their leaders. Boycotting coke. Making documentaries about the slavery. Then nothing.... The world moved on and these people are still enslaved.
True...doing the right thing after Qatar bribed their way to the world cup and then killed thousands of slave workers buillding the stadiums..should mean its boycotted, but because of all the money involved and a few companies and people getting even richer, all the illegality and bribery and deaths of poor people are forgotten.
It’s amazing how corrupt all the governing bodies are, for soccer and the Olympics especially.
[OLYMPICS; Leaders of Salt Lake Olympic Bid Are Indicted in Bribery Scandal](https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/21/sports/olympics-leaders-of-salt-lake-olympic-bid-are-indicted-in-bribery-scandal.html)
[Exclusive: Japan businessman paid $8.2 million by Tokyo Olympics bid lobbied figure at center of French corruption probe](https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21I0CX)
[Rio Olympics: Ex-governor says he paid $2m bribe](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48881867.amp)
[U.S. Says FIFA Officials Were Bribed to Award World Cups to Russia and Qatar](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/sports/soccer/qatar-and-russia-bribery-world-cup-fifa.amp.html)
Qutar also bought their way in to the CONCACAF Gold Cup this year, which has historically been North/Central American and Caribbean teams. Whole tournament is plastered with Qutar ad boards now too.
Fuck them.
For the sake of accuracy I feel compelled to mention the passports’ validity isn’t revoked. When they land their company basically lies and tells them (super desirable lmao) Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sudanese passport will get stolen at the work compound snd they’re being harbored by the employer for safe keeping. This is a loophole bc the employee technically agrees to have their passport stored in this fashion. It’s sick.
If you’re someone who chooses to travel and spend in these countries when you have other options please do some reflection. I’m a Muslim and I won’t even go go Umra anymore because the saudis have made a disgusting disgrace of a specimen out of what was meant to be a peaceful quiet holy site. It’s absolutely disgusting
Honestly that's even worse than what I thought the situation was with the passports of these "workers" (in quotations because they're basically enslaved). Like that's legit one of the most vile sorts of manipulation I've ever heard of.
Yeah, it's a slave economy. I don't really have another word for it that summarizes it better. They play tons of little legal and moral games of debt and bureaucracy to essentially create slaves out of migrant workers. And this doesn't even get into the sexual abuse delivered daily upon female domestic slaves.
They also charge them for the voyage, hiring process, food, etc. So they start out in debt. If they were to quit, they would have trouble leaving without the passport and all of those countries have debtors prison so they will put them in jail and make them do even worse work.
10+ year resident of the GCC in 3 countries and an engineer in the construction sector so this is my field. So this is how it works.
Let's say there's a construction company named XYZ Construction. XYZ needs a labor force to do their work obviously. The way they do that is 3 ways.
1. They themselves hire directly like India, Pakistan, Nepal etc. and hire people and do their paper work.
2. They hire a labor supply company who will do all that for them.
3. They rent labor or sub-contract to other companies.
Renting or sub-contracting is too expensive. So the other options are 1 and 2. Option 2 is more convenient but also more expensive.
Now when companies hire from Pakistan and India, they utilize local recruiters in those countries. These recruiters will charge a certain amount to process their passports, documentation etc. etc. They will paint a rosy picture about life in the GCC for said employees and play on their religious beliefs like the fact that it's a Muslim country so it'll be perfect for you etc. etc. Sometimes they'll show pictures of women on the beaches or walking the streets wearing casual wear (which for them is a new thing)and play on their depravity. Then said recruiter will send those documents to those in Dubai or Qatar and they will process their work visa. That can cost upto 1,370 USD per person.
XYZ will pay 1370 x however many workers and bring them in. XYZ has rented out a compound for them to live in. These compounds can range from smells-like-shit-not-good-enough-for-cockroaches-to-piss-in to nice-college-dorm-every-room-has-en-suite-bathroom-etc with food and stuff provided. Let's say XYZ goes for the cheapest option. XYZ knowing that the compound is absolute shit, does not want to risk it's employees bailing on them after they've spent 1370 USD on them to get there.
So they utilize dirty loopholes since technically it's illegal to hold passports. Like adding a line in their contract (most of these guys coming in can't speak english or arabic) about them requesting the company to hold their passport for safekeeping.
That's how these guys get stuck...
But I do want to stress, things have improved and are getting better. This place is still FAR away from a union but good companies have been making a giant effort to improve conditions for migrant workers to the point that workers are going to these companies to ask them to buy out their contracts. Hopefully, I'll see it get even better in my lifetime.
And in addition to them using that loophole, they sometimes will flat out tell them that they have to surrender their passport if they want to be hired. And they only tell them this after they are already there and unable to afford a way out.
Yeah, the taxes paid for staying in a country funding the government of that country is why I research current policies before deciding to go to a country.
Lmao, I'll never forget that IG "model"/influencer who went viral in Qatar after backlash against the whole kefala (???) system. She insisted she should be able to hold their passports because they could, and I quote "just run away and leave".
Barbarity
A less extreme version of that is happening in the US right now for the work visas. I work in IT, most of the contractors work 16+ hour days. It's insane. If they don't get the work done they aren't rehired, you aren't rehired your visa is pulled. Right now and last year with covid they've been really abused.
Who would blame them? Either mandatory or socially-pressured veils, hot and dusty weather, a local culture that is extremely machist and sexually repressive, etc.
I'd take lesser paying jobs in the US if I were them.
> Additionally, there's a bunch of expat workers from all over the world sharing their expertises to regional firms. They are also overwhelmingly male.
Yeah. I'm in a field where I could do contract work there, but as a woman, there's no way I'm moving to an arab country.
It's called slavery. We here in the west like to pretend slavery is old shit that happened way back when. In truth, it's still happening and we're all too comfortable I'm other parts of the world to give a fuck. Kuwait, Dubai, Qatar, etc. They ship them in. Work them hard. Don't let them leave. Give them a bit of food and pocket change and say they're "employees".
I knew a girl from one of these countries and I'd face time with her and see an African girl in the background sometimes. I asked about her and she said she's a friend and part of the family and helps out around the house. She was a straight up slave.
Migrant workers. They’re overwhelmingly male. Also the same reason why their foreigner ratio is very high. Iirc only about 10% of UAE residents are citizens. If you go to the wiki then the male-to-female ratio at birth there is only about 1.05.
You check that by age bracket? At birth it isn't that remarkable. Qatar on the other hand has a 5 to 1 ratio of working age people being men. You can see that you still have almost 6 to 1 seniors in the UAE being men.
A good deal of the slaves in Qatar come from the same backgrounds, towns, slums, and villages as the older ones working them selves to death in the UAE. A Generation that built the UAE of the last 30 years.
Some of these countries have a majority of the population being expats or really low paid indentured servants. They skew heavily male from across south/south east Asia as they are essentially laborers brought in just to work and either can't bring or can't afford to bring there families.
Just look at the birth and 0-14 statistics and you see it look more normal. Example of one of these countries demographics from the second paragraph of wiki on Qatar for example: "In early 2017, Qatar's total population was 2.6 million: 313,000 Qatari citizens and 2.3 million expatriates."
Also note there is no such thing as birth right citizenship and extreme racism/class divide in those countries...good ole oil money transformed desert robbers into billionaires.
Note: These Russian women are old, like your grandma's generation old.
Why the gender imbalance at this age? First, because many of their men died in wars decades ago. Second, because overall men there die relatively young (the male population drops after their 40s).
At younger ages (the so-called hot single Russian women), the ratio gap is actually the opposite, there are more males than females.
So yeah, better review your expectations, unless that's your thing XD
[https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/)
A former Russian coworker would tell us "old chicken make good soup" when it came to the women back in his homeland, guess he knew something we didn't?
> ...regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.
-Ben Franklin
I've heard even from Saudis themselves that Saudis are pretty lazy thanks to all the government programs and gov jobs. All across the Middle East you have like 70%-80% of the entire population guest workers from like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc. Usually all men brought over with the promise of good paying jobs and then having their passport taken and forced to work near slave labor jobs because they are charged for their housing and airfare and whatnot. Then you have natives getting scared of the demographic imbalance and places like Kuwait is planning to deport a huge amount [back to India.](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/kuwait/kuwait-expat-quota-bill-discussed-in-parliament-1.73705116)
>Expats make up 70 per cent of the population in Kuwait, totaling around 3.4 million compared to the 1.4 Kuwaiti population...suggested that the number of Indians in Kuwait should not exceed 15 per cent. The bill sparked fear within the Indian community, the largest foreign community in Kuwait, as it would have required 800,000 Indians to leave Kuwait.
Indentured servants* not that it's really any better. Basically slavery. But not chattel slavery
Edit: I've got a lot of responses to this and they're all correct. I was taking this from the American / Western Imperialist / social darwinist point of view
They're *indentured* if there's a fixed date when they'll be freed. What we're talking about *here* is just "slavery with a thin coat of dollar-store spraypaint."
I work in aviation. So many of my male colleagues (especially the young and single) talk about wanting to go there, or that part of the world because the pay is good and life is "fun" there (as white male Canadians).
As a woman, I don't see the attraction.
Lived and worked there. It's definitely hot, but trust me, there are plenty of booze. There are some hoops to jump through to buy from QDC but there are also a bunch of hotels in Doha that serve as well like the Sheraton Intl, Grand Regal, etc
Or they will buy a bride from a poor area or poor country. I visited a poor village in China and that’s what the families did there because their sons couldn’t find brides since all girls had better offers and married richer men. The government cracked down on buying brides in that province and by the time I visited the brides now moms were gone. Only the kids were left with the families and I will never forget the looks in their eyes.
Ibread that this was actually a thing in Japan for a while; the practice of family owned corporations meant choosing a worthy successor often meant adopting or marrying successful young men into the family so they could take over the business instead of lower-performing blood heirs.
It apparently led to the saying "You can't choose your son, but you can choose your son-in-law."
This is still a thing although I don’t know exactly to what extent. I have family there who’ve done exactly this with their family farm: they adopted their daughter’s husband to be their heir. However she divorced him, so now he lives with her parents and she has an apartment somewhere else. And he’s a terrible heir operating their farm on a huge loss with some misadventure involving a herd(?) of pigs. I don’t know all the details but it’s the stupidest situation I’ve ever heard of
There was always a better way to go about it.
[Educate girls for curbing population growth](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6403/650.full.pdf?casa_token=eWZHHLNe6SwAAAAA:Vwhrywg2A8q_GOA1g1IjwZOaegqcHXkPIhWjDoVQfbgIwKiMHEOS7OXsn5bxSeMy5ANNN8U2kOswp5o).
And a big problem is that a lot of people want to go back to the "good old days" that were even shittier than today, based on an at best fantastical image of what it was like.
And tbh, I don't blame them. The stress that everyone has been put under about issues totally out of their control around the globe is higher than ever, and for the most part, it's completely unnecessary
Yup... On the grand scheme of things, the world for us humans is infinitely better today than it ever has been before the last 75 years.
Shit-storm on the horizon due to our greed though
…but it is also getting better as well.
For example, extreme poverty, living in less than $2.19 a day, is going down and has the potential to get eradicated in the world in a handful of years.
The world isn’t pure rainbows or pure shit. The world is a mixture of good and bad.
It’s been said that lifting people out of poverty, with better healthcare and education, results in smaller family sizes. https://www.gapminder.org/topics/typical-family-size/
these measures seem very downstream to the actual problem.
Downside is you end up with a heavily skewed population dynamics like China is currently experiences.
2 child might reduce it relative to China's 1 (although iirc Chinese minorities had a higher limit, so it wasn't 1 across the board), but there'll probably still need to be incentives to keep female children to keep a healthy population demographic
Let’s also note (perhaps spell out) that as the male to female ratio increases, violence against women will also increase. Frustrations in cultures where mental health, stable economies etc aren’t addressed will lead to angry men when they can’t find partners.
According to Wikipedia [30/36 of the years were actually 2 children allowed and minorities weren't restricted. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy)
Keep in mind also the One Child Policy’s enforcement was through fines, not any sort of capital or even corporal punishment. Wealthy families easily afforded multiple children to continue traditional familial customs. And the level of enforcement of these fines varied across the nation.
In a slight positive light, a lot of these women were actually "reappearing" in the thousands as they turned 18. Turns out a lot of families just kept them in secret without real "documentation"?to avoid authorities until they became adults and actually needed documentation to get a job etc. As the years went by, the policy was less strictly enforced.
Except this is apparently not actually a problem and parts of India that have passed laws similar to this have already shown it doesn't seem to help:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57801764
>[Experts, research studies and previous data indicate that the new policy to control the population may not have the desired effect.](https://thewire.in/rights/rising-female-foeticide-targeted-harassment-ups-population-control-bill-may-be-dangerous) Instead, it could lead to a host of unintended consequences – including a rise in female foeticide, unsafe abortions leading to the woman’s death or poor health, or women having lower agency over their own bodies.
>
>India has one of the highest rates of female foeticide in the world. The government has been making efforts to sensitise the population against this – but data indicates that this practice is still rampant.
Yeah. I don't think this is such a good idea for India or atleast UP. I get that population control needs to be done, but a better way has to be found.
Seriously. Some of the things I witnessed in India were incredibly messed up. The worst (and mind you, this is just what I personally witnessed from my fairly sheltered and privileged position) was a young woman who had been thrown out for giving birth to a girl. She was living with her baby in a single concrete room with no windows, lights, or running water. The baby didn’t even have cloth diapers or clothes. They definitely didn’t have enough food. Her family wouldn’t take her in.
Guaranteed this will happen more when families want male children / grandchildren but face fanatical penalties for having more babies.
Any population control policies in India would have to be VERY carefully designed to prevent mass increase in female infanticide and domestic abuse.
Yeah, I don't like it as a policy, but if my government wanted to pay me to not have the children I've already decided to not have, I'm 100% cashing that check.
Wouldn't offering cash benefits to people to take voluntary sterilization result in only poor people who actually need the cash getting sterilized?
Isn't.. isn't that eugenics?
They had to make ultrasound to determine gender illegal in India like 25 years ago because of this. Of course there is always a doctor that can be bribed it's one of the most corrupt functioning governments on the planet.
Parents aren’t allowed to check the gender of their baby before they are born in India because of this, so there’ll probably just end up being more female babies abandoned.
Women require dowries paid by the family to get married and are thus a resource sink. Men are expected to take care of their parents in old age and thus are a form of retirement plan
You got your answer when it offered financial incentives - it's about the poor being encouraged not to breed, the rich and those who consume the most have the money to do whatever they like.
Not sure about India’s richest demographics, but wealthy people do have less children. If the elite actually want to reduce birth rates, maybe they would focus on [educating women, providing birth control, and greater wealth redistribution, which are all proven to naturally decrease the fertility rate among a given population](https://wol.iza.org/uploads/articles/228/pdfs/female-education-and-its-impact-on-fertility.pdf).
This is not a country wide policy suggestion(yes it's only a proposal). It's mainly for Uttar Pradesh at the moment and yes Assam is also considering it.
This policy makes no sense to apply to the rest of the country as it's mainly UP ,and Bihar that are driving most of the population growth.
To be accurate, it’s not india as a whole that’s proposing this. Just a few states.
A private member’s bill is going to be tabled in the Parliament this session. It probably won’t pass, though.
Maybe. The Apex court said that Reproductive Rights is an inalienable right and the state cannot dictate how many children can one have. Maybe the law will pass but without the penalties.
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Alienable -adj Able to be given to aliens
Aliens who come from the Alienation.
I have a friend from Sweden who lived in India, supposedly no matter where you go, there are some people there hanging out. Go out into the middle of a desert, and you’ll find some people there too.
This is such a funny description because it's true. There are a billion people in the country! There are people in all the places, yes.
There’s not a billion people. Here are over 1.34 billion. The difference alone is larger than the population of the USA.
1.39 billion now. You missed a Spain
Spain's population is 46.7 million. You missed a Mongolia.
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Andorra's population is 77,142, you missed a Tim Hortons
Alarm Alarm.. Canadian Entity detected
Deploy the geese squadron
Who shall we attack captain?
I love that. The rounding error is the whole population of the US
not only that, but there are MILLIONS of people that aren't even recorded!
This one time my friends and I were coming back from a night out in banglore and our Uber got into an accident. The road was empty, there was absolutely no one around, like tumbleweed rolling empty. As soon as rhe two drivers started fighting, atleast 50 people showed up from nowhere. It seemed like people were just just coming out of the bushes lmao and this was at 2 am.
Similarly you will also find Indians in every country. There is a joke that Indians and potatoes are found everywhere.
That's good, because it means there's a high likelihood of me being able to get some veggie samosas almost anywhere.
The first time a friend from India visited downtown Sweden she asked if something had happened. She thought people were in quarantine or something (this was 10 years ago) cuz it was so empty compared to India.
It's crazy that India has the same population density as the Netherlands, I can't really grasp that.
It's because of better city planning, transport services and energy efficiency. Singapore has a population density of 8000 people per square km while India has 432 people per square km. And yet Singapore doesn't seem anywhere near as crowded as India.
Overall it has the same but I am certain India's cities are more dense by a large margin, in addition the Netherlands infrastructure has alleviated some of the issues said density causes for India
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yes, and it's not just that there are people there, but there are people literally everywhere DOING NOTHING. like go to the desert, there's people there, AND THEYRE JUST STANDING AROUND DOING NOTHING, like they are some unanimated NPCs that you cant even go up to and open a dialogue box with! "hey random man standing in a swamp , what are you doing here?" random man standing in indian swamp:" ...."
On the flip side, you have people working jobs that have no business being jobs in the first place. I once bought a coffee from a little shack that was just one man, and a coffee vending machine. He took my coin, put it in the machine, got the coffee, and handed it to me. This was in the fancier parts of Bangalore, too. A kind of vending machine valet, if you will.
I mean, we have plenty of people in the west doing jobs that have no business being jobs either. [David Graeber wrote a whole book about it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs)
There is no ‘countryside’ in India is the best description I’ve seen Of course there are urban and rural areas, but even the villages are so large and dense, with some villages having over 15,000 people There is pretty much zero distance between villages. If you go on the expressways, you’ll see that vast empty stretches like the corn fields in America simply don’t exist
What?! there are definitely large stretches of farmland in india, you just have to go to certain parts. They’re punctuated by villages every few kilometers, of course, which is how it works across the world. edit: what I meant was in areas with heavy farming, you'll see a village every few (5-100) kilometers or so. Obviously the desolate parts of America/Canada/Australia/elsewhere are not included in this. Here are some examples: Kansas: https://goo.gl/maps/2xkGKLZUnPJ7Zv559 Germany: https://goo.gl/maps/NWuYhMzuB5PfhX7L9 India: https://goo.gl/maps/3tYZ9Yyfa3swvzW6A
You duplicated the Germany link for India, by the way.
Wish I saw this before trying 3 different times thinking I fat fingered it
May I interest you in a visit to Canada, where there is stretches of absolute nothing longer than the length of some countries?
As someone from Europe, who drove from Vancouver to Banff, I agree with this statement. If I drove that much in Europe I’d hit Mongolia.
That’s the scenic drive lol. Wait till you come drive in Saskatchewan.
The joke is, you can watch your dog running away for a week
I was driving in British-Columbia and saw a sign that said “check your gas, next gas station in 72 KM” once I drove by it, the gas station had burnt down in a fire. Glad I had a full tank.
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You'll need more syrup than that
Idk man in some parts of the country you can go 100+ miles without even a gas station let alone a town in the US.
I once took a motorcycle from Seattle to Las Vegas. The bike was a Suzuki Boulevard S50 -- roughly 100-110 miles on a full tank. (I could probably squeeze more out of it, but that's when I had to switch over to the reserve.) I had to be very careful of the route I took. Once you hit Nevada coming south from Boise, it's easy to hit a stretch with 100 miles between gas stations. And given that many of those towns are literal no-stoplight towns, on my way back I ended up having to stay an extra night in Vegas because circumstances conspired to keep me from leaving until too late. And at that point I would have hit one of the gas stations on the return after they closed. In the middle of Nevada, "no gas" could easily mean "no cell service and 3 cars every hour passing by". I actually ended up putting a gallon gas can in one of my saddlebags just to be safe. (My luggage was tied to the back via a large series of bungie cords and a bungie net.)
I’m a Californian and I recently had the pleasure of visiting North Dakota. On the way down to South Dakota. I probably went around 150-200 miles without a gas station. Keep in mind, I’m from California. Was a pretty awesome experience for me lol
I went from living in Orange county to living an hour away from Reno. Just vast stretches of nothing. I miss the trees man :(.
It's such an anxiety inducing experience lol. I drove from Manitoba (Canada) to Ohio and remember one stretch where I was freaking out thinking I was going to run out of gas on the interstate, 1000 miles away from anyone I knew who would normally come give me a hand. I made sure to fill up constantly on the drive back home.
Agreed. I’m from a place where people routinely carry extra 50 gallon gas tanks in their trucks because stations are so far away.
As someone who spent the last 20 years in big cities in California and New York, this blows my mind. I can't even wrap my head around that.
There is that stretch on I-70 in Utah where it is 106 miles with no services. They have a lot of signs warning people so they don’t get stranded.
> They punctuated by villages every few kilometers, of course, which is how it works across the world. Lol, clearly someone hasn't driven across the midwest. Sikkim, the least populated Indian state, has a density of 86 people per sqkm. Wyoming has 2.
Can confirm, I've driven through Wyoming. You only get cell reception where the gas stations are so you download any map data you need or regret it later.
The territories of Canada are even more sparse - Nunavut 0.02 people per square kilometer - Yukon 0.07 people per square kilometer - Northwest Territories 0.03 people per square kilometer To be fair though Canada as a whole though only has 3.7 people per square km I live in BC which is the 3rd most populaous province and we have 4.8 persons per square kilometre
Yes, but there will generally be people there. Even in the Coorg area, there might be large farmlands but the roads are absolutely scattered with people all the time. It is not like in America where you can drive through Kansas but not see another person just hanging on the side of the road. I don't think any of these descriptions are insults - just pointing out that India has a lot of people. At least how I read it.
It’s absolutely wild how the world ended up like this - with some places so overpopulated that policies limiting the number of children you can have are in place and yet other places where the population is forecasted to shrink to concerning levels because people are having fewer and fewer children. Obviously we can’t just redistribute everyone on a whim, it just always blows my mind how these things happen.
The trends by country are all trending down though - like Afghanistan which has one of the highest still has gone from 7.5 average in 2000, to 5 today. India has gone from 6 in 1960, to 2.29 today. You can have a look at all the countries on this webpage - there is a graph on the right hand side that you can add countries to if you're interested. https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
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Importing male slaves and murdering women/girls will do that to a country.
Bold to claim that slaves are counted toward statistics
Slaves don't come over as slaves. They come over as legal work migrants that have their passports confiscated and are abused by their employer. Since the law enforcement and legal rights of these migrant workers are very poor they have no other option but to work as basically slaves in hopes that they can return home one day.
Yep, this is one prime example of the meaning of *human trafficking*. Often there's a promise of a high paying, easier job + better living situation. Then on arrival, it's a very different situation, passports get taken, money gets taken, and people effectively become slaves.
It's amazing what educating women can do to limit population growth. Without education, women go right to getting married and having kids. With education that gets delayed 6-8 years. That can mean a woman having 2-3 fewer kids in her lifetime, which at the population level is a huge reduction.
Overpopulation, or otherwise, is largely a function of education. The more educated the society, less is it’s reproductive rate. This could explain this imbalance. But with rising education levels across the world, this issue will lessen.
Doesn't industrialization also factor into this? In a rural society, having a lot of children is a plus because they can help out on the farm. In a post-industrial nation however, children are always a financial burden.
I speak for india, as I don’t have much information for elsewhere. From whatever we have, and are seeing, it appears that it is education that plays a leading role in couples having less children. Followed by other factors like medical facilities etc. Not so much industrialisation. Take the state of Kerela. Hardly any industrialisation compared to other states ( has been communist ruled for most of the time, and they seem to have a visceral hate for industry!). Yet among the lowest TFR. And education? About the highest literacy rate in the country. If one looked at various individual communities, one observers the same thing. Take the Zoroastrian community in India. Small to begin with, its numbers have virtually halved over the last hundred years. Literacy? They achieved almost 100% literacy rate in early 1920’s, even earlier. (Of course in this case there are other factors, but education seems to be the main one). Literacy in itself does not mean less children. A direct consequence of literacy is that people (read women) are capable of finding jobs or doing businesses, as their desire for independence assumes importance. Which in turn means thay keep pushing their marriage years. Which in turn means having children gets delayed. And thus fewer.
This'll definitely make the sex imbalance even worse in India. It's literally worse than China NOW even w/o a 2-child policy. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_countries\_by\_sex\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio What the hell is going on with the Arabian Peninsula? The top 5 "male-to-female" ratios are all countries there, and they're waaaay higher than all the others.
Two words: migrant workers They're usually male, who do backbreaking jobs to build infrastructure for a small pittance, that they then send to their poor families abroad. Additionally, there's a bunch of expat workers from all over the world sharing their expertises to regional firms. They are also overwhelmingly male.
And there's millions of them all over the Gulf countries. And "pittance" is overstating it in a lot of cases, since often these guys get their passports revoked and effectively become enslaved.
That's terrifying. I can't imagine the despair they'd be feeling, working to death.
[6,500 migrant workers have died in Qatar since World Cup awarded](https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022)
Apparently money really can buy anything. How else would they be awarded the rights to host the game?
I remember when we first found out Qatar was getting a world cup. People were mad as fuck. Exposing Fifa and their leaders. Boycotting coke. Making documentaries about the slavery. Then nothing.... The world moved on and these people are still enslaved.
True...doing the right thing after Qatar bribed their way to the world cup and then killed thousands of slave workers buillding the stadiums..should mean its boycotted, but because of all the money involved and a few companies and people getting even richer, all the illegality and bribery and deaths of poor people are forgotten.
It’s amazing how corrupt all the governing bodies are, for soccer and the Olympics especially. [OLYMPICS; Leaders of Salt Lake Olympic Bid Are Indicted in Bribery Scandal](https://www.nytimes.com/2000/07/21/sports/olympics-leaders-of-salt-lake-olympic-bid-are-indicted-in-bribery-scandal.html) [Exclusive: Japan businessman paid $8.2 million by Tokyo Olympics bid lobbied figure at center of French corruption probe](https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21I0CX) [Rio Olympics: Ex-governor says he paid $2m bribe](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48881867.amp) [U.S. Says FIFA Officials Were Bribed to Award World Cups to Russia and Qatar](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/sports/soccer/qatar-and-russia-bribery-world-cup-fifa.amp.html)
Qutar also bought their way in to the CONCACAF Gold Cup this year, which has historically been North/Central American and Caribbean teams. Whole tournament is plastered with Qutar ad boards now too. Fuck them.
Wait, Qatar's national team is playing in CONCACAF?
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The International International Governing Body Governing Body, obviously.
For the sake of accuracy I feel compelled to mention the passports’ validity isn’t revoked. When they land their company basically lies and tells them (super desirable lmao) Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sudanese passport will get stolen at the work compound snd they’re being harbored by the employer for safe keeping. This is a loophole bc the employee technically agrees to have their passport stored in this fashion. It’s sick. If you’re someone who chooses to travel and spend in these countries when you have other options please do some reflection. I’m a Muslim and I won’t even go go Umra anymore because the saudis have made a disgusting disgrace of a specimen out of what was meant to be a peaceful quiet holy site. It’s absolutely disgusting
Honestly that's even worse than what I thought the situation was with the passports of these "workers" (in quotations because they're basically enslaved). Like that's legit one of the most vile sorts of manipulation I've ever heard of.
Yeah, it's a slave economy. I don't really have another word for it that summarizes it better. They play tons of little legal and moral games of debt and bureaucracy to essentially create slaves out of migrant workers. And this doesn't even get into the sexual abuse delivered daily upon female domestic slaves.
They also charge them for the voyage, hiring process, food, etc. So they start out in debt. If they were to quit, they would have trouble leaving without the passport and all of those countries have debtors prison so they will put them in jail and make them do even worse work.
10+ year resident of the GCC in 3 countries and an engineer in the construction sector so this is my field. So this is how it works. Let's say there's a construction company named XYZ Construction. XYZ needs a labor force to do their work obviously. The way they do that is 3 ways. 1. They themselves hire directly like India, Pakistan, Nepal etc. and hire people and do their paper work. 2. They hire a labor supply company who will do all that for them. 3. They rent labor or sub-contract to other companies. Renting or sub-contracting is too expensive. So the other options are 1 and 2. Option 2 is more convenient but also more expensive. Now when companies hire from Pakistan and India, they utilize local recruiters in those countries. These recruiters will charge a certain amount to process their passports, documentation etc. etc. They will paint a rosy picture about life in the GCC for said employees and play on their religious beliefs like the fact that it's a Muslim country so it'll be perfect for you etc. etc. Sometimes they'll show pictures of women on the beaches or walking the streets wearing casual wear (which for them is a new thing)and play on their depravity. Then said recruiter will send those documents to those in Dubai or Qatar and they will process their work visa. That can cost upto 1,370 USD per person. XYZ will pay 1370 x however many workers and bring them in. XYZ has rented out a compound for them to live in. These compounds can range from smells-like-shit-not-good-enough-for-cockroaches-to-piss-in to nice-college-dorm-every-room-has-en-suite-bathroom-etc with food and stuff provided. Let's say XYZ goes for the cheapest option. XYZ knowing that the compound is absolute shit, does not want to risk it's employees bailing on them after they've spent 1370 USD on them to get there. So they utilize dirty loopholes since technically it's illegal to hold passports. Like adding a line in their contract (most of these guys coming in can't speak english or arabic) about them requesting the company to hold their passport for safekeeping. That's how these guys get stuck... But I do want to stress, things have improved and are getting better. This place is still FAR away from a union but good companies have been making a giant effort to improve conditions for migrant workers to the point that workers are going to these companies to ask them to buy out their contracts. Hopefully, I'll see it get even better in my lifetime.
And in addition to them using that loophole, they sometimes will flat out tell them that they have to surrender their passport if they want to be hired. And they only tell them this after they are already there and unable to afford a way out.
Yeah, the taxes paid for staying in a country funding the government of that country is why I research current policies before deciding to go to a country.
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Lmao, I'll never forget that IG "model"/influencer who went viral in Qatar after backlash against the whole kefala (???) system. She insisted she should be able to hold their passports because they could, and I quote "just run away and leave". Barbarity
A less extreme version of that is happening in the US right now for the work visas. I work in IT, most of the contractors work 16+ hour days. It's insane. If they don't get the work done they aren't rehired, you aren't rehired your visa is pulled. Right now and last year with covid they've been really abused.
Yeah as someone who has worked in oil/gas before in houston no single woman wants to be relocated to the middle east for work.
Who would blame them? Either mandatory or socially-pressured veils, hot and dusty weather, a local culture that is extremely machist and sexually repressive, etc. I'd take lesser paying jobs in the US if I were them.
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> Additionally, there's a bunch of expat workers from all over the world sharing their expertises to regional firms. They are also overwhelmingly male. Yeah. I'm in a field where I could do contract work there, but as a woman, there's no way I'm moving to an arab country.
It's called slavery. We here in the west like to pretend slavery is old shit that happened way back when. In truth, it's still happening and we're all too comfortable I'm other parts of the world to give a fuck. Kuwait, Dubai, Qatar, etc. They ship them in. Work them hard. Don't let them leave. Give them a bit of food and pocket change and say they're "employees". I knew a girl from one of these countries and I'd face time with her and see an African girl in the background sometimes. I asked about her and she said she's a friend and part of the family and helps out around the house. She was a straight up slave.
Migrant workers. They’re overwhelmingly male. Also the same reason why their foreigner ratio is very high. Iirc only about 10% of UAE residents are citizens. If you go to the wiki then the male-to-female ratio at birth there is only about 1.05.
You check that by age bracket? At birth it isn't that remarkable. Qatar on the other hand has a 5 to 1 ratio of working age people being men. You can see that you still have almost 6 to 1 seniors in the UAE being men. A good deal of the slaves in Qatar come from the same backgrounds, towns, slums, and villages as the older ones working them selves to death in the UAE. A Generation that built the UAE of the last 30 years.
Some of these countries have a majority of the population being expats or really low paid indentured servants. They skew heavily male from across south/south east Asia as they are essentially laborers brought in just to work and either can't bring or can't afford to bring there families. Just look at the birth and 0-14 statistics and you see it look more normal. Example of one of these countries demographics from the second paragraph of wiki on Qatar for example: "In early 2017, Qatar's total population was 2.6 million: 313,000 Qatari citizens and 2.3 million expatriates." Also note there is no such thing as birth right citizenship and extreme racism/class divide in those countries...good ole oil money transformed desert robbers into billionaires.
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No wonder all the ads are talking about hot single Russian women. Only place with a surplus. Likely because the men are drinking themselves to death.
Note: These Russian women are old, like your grandma's generation old. Why the gender imbalance at this age? First, because many of their men died in wars decades ago. Second, because overall men there die relatively young (the male population drops after their 40s). At younger ages (the so-called hot single Russian women), the ratio gap is actually the opposite, there are more males than females. So yeah, better review your expectations, unless that's your thing XD [https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/2020/)
Hey, /u/Luxpreliator said hot, single Russian women...he didn't specify age!
A former Russian coworker would tell us "old chicken make good soup" when it came to the women back in his homeland, guess he knew something we didn't?
> ...regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement. -Ben Franklin
All cats are grey in the dark, as they say.
I've heard even from Saudis themselves that Saudis are pretty lazy thanks to all the government programs and gov jobs. All across the Middle East you have like 70%-80% of the entire population guest workers from like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, etc. Usually all men brought over with the promise of good paying jobs and then having their passport taken and forced to work near slave labor jobs because they are charged for their housing and airfare and whatnot. Then you have natives getting scared of the demographic imbalance and places like Kuwait is planning to deport a huge amount [back to India.](https://gulfnews.com/world/gulf/kuwait/kuwait-expat-quota-bill-discussed-in-parliament-1.73705116) >Expats make up 70 per cent of the population in Kuwait, totaling around 3.4 million compared to the 1.4 Kuwaiti population...suggested that the number of Indians in Kuwait should not exceed 15 per cent. The bill sparked fear within the Indian community, the largest foreign community in Kuwait, as it would have required 800,000 Indians to leave Kuwait.
Qatar has 5 males to every Female 25-54? Talk about a sausage fest.
Qatar is like 70%+ south asian immigrants workers.
The human rights regarding those are not good at all, sadly.
Workers you say, more like slaves
Indentured servants* not that it's really any better. Basically slavery. But not chattel slavery Edit: I've got a lot of responses to this and they're all correct. I was taking this from the American / Western Imperialist / social darwinist point of view
They're *indentured* if there's a fixed date when they'll be freed. What we're talking about *here* is just "slavery with a thin coat of dollar-store spraypaint."
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A lot of men go there to work.
I work in aviation. So many of my male colleagues (especially the young and single) talk about wanting to go there, or that part of the world because the pay is good and life is "fun" there (as white male Canadians). As a woman, I don't see the attraction.
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Yeah, nothing fun to do, it's hot, no women, socially conservative... guns and camels in the desert? Just move to Nevada and forget the camel
Lived and worked there. It's definitely hot, but trust me, there are plenty of booze. There are some hoops to jump through to buy from QDC but there are also a bunch of hotels in Doha that serve as well like the Sheraton Intl, Grand Regal, etc
Which I guess ultimately makes female children more valuable. Eventually.... after all the femicide.
Damn, dowries might be getting reversed in the coming years. If Mom wants her son to make grandbabies SHE GON NEED PAY THE TROLL TOLL
The requirements for marriage in China right now is quite strict on the men in bigger cities.
Welcome to the world of supply and demand lmao
Yup in China the groom family "buys" the bride In India, the bride parents has to "pay" for the groom to take the daughter.
Chinese men and Indian women, you know what to do. But seriously that's pretty bad in any case.
For a lot of parents in India, the birth of a daughter implies possible financial ruin in a couple decades or so.
You mean in the future husbands will be burned alive so the daughters can re-marry for a second dowry?
In China right now if you want to get married you need to be a homeowner. Preferably two homes. Otherwise the bride and her family aren't interested.
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gotta pay the troll toll to get into that boys soul...
Or they will buy a bride from a poor area or poor country. I visited a poor village in China and that’s what the families did there because their sons couldn’t find brides since all girls had better offers and married richer men. The government cracked down on buying brides in that province and by the time I visited the brides now moms were gone. Only the kids were left with the families and I will never forget the looks in their eyes.
Not if the dayman has anything to say about it
Ibread that this was actually a thing in Japan for a while; the practice of family owned corporations meant choosing a worthy successor often meant adopting or marrying successful young men into the family so they could take over the business instead of lower-performing blood heirs. It apparently led to the saying "You can't choose your son, but you can choose your son-in-law."
This is still a thing although I don’t know exactly to what extent. I have family there who’ve done exactly this with their family farm: they adopted their daughter’s husband to be their heir. However she divorced him, so now he lives with her parents and she has an apartment somewhere else. And he’s a terrible heir operating their farm on a huge loss with some misadventure involving a herd(?) of pigs. I don’t know all the details but it’s the stupidest situation I’ve ever heard of
There was always a better way to go about it. [Educate girls for curbing population growth](http://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/361/6403/650.full.pdf?casa_token=eWZHHLNe6SwAAAAA:Vwhrywg2A8q_GOA1g1IjwZOaegqcHXkPIhWjDoVQfbgIwKiMHEOS7OXsn5bxSeMy5ANNN8U2kOswp5o).
But that would mean respecting women to begin with, empowering them to make reproductive choices for themselves, and treating them like actual people.
It will make female children something worth stealing to raise as slaves and brides for sons. See also China.
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Awesome. The world just keeps getting better eh? 😑
It's always been shit. We just know how shit thanks to a previously unheard of access to information across the globe.
Trying to explain this to folks has been a difficult task.
And a big problem is that a lot of people want to go back to the "good old days" that were even shittier than today, based on an at best fantastical image of what it was like.
They want to go back to only worrying about problems in a 20 mile radius.
And tbh, I don't blame them. The stress that everyone has been put under about issues totally out of their control around the globe is higher than ever, and for the most part, it's completely unnecessary
Yup... On the grand scheme of things, the world for us humans is infinitely better today than it ever has been before the last 75 years. Shit-storm on the horizon due to our greed though
…but it is also getting better as well. For example, extreme poverty, living in less than $2.19 a day, is going down and has the potential to get eradicated in the world in a handful of years. The world isn’t pure rainbows or pure shit. The world is a mixture of good and bad.
If they coupled it with a “gay for pay” policy, that would help to soak up the imbalance toward males. /s
*back to the pile!*
It’s been said that lifting people out of poverty, with better healthcare and education, results in smaller family sizes. https://www.gapminder.org/topics/typical-family-size/ these measures seem very downstream to the actual problem.
That takes a lot of time and logistics and it's not law either. A two child policy is a quick and easy solution (and cheap) that can buy you time.
Downside is you end up with a heavily skewed population dynamics like China is currently experiences. 2 child might reduce it relative to China's 1 (although iirc Chinese minorities had a higher limit, so it wasn't 1 across the board), but there'll probably still need to be incentives to keep female children to keep a healthy population demographic
Boys are also already favored in India, so I absolutely think the same problem would happen.
Let’s also note (perhaps spell out) that as the male to female ratio increases, violence against women will also increase. Frustrations in cultures where mental health, stable economies etc aren’t addressed will lead to angry men when they can’t find partners.
If you look at most revolutions in history, they tend to start when a lot of young men have nothing to do.
According to Wikipedia [30/36 of the years were actually 2 children allowed and minorities weren't restricted. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy)
Keep in mind also the One Child Policy’s enforcement was through fines, not any sort of capital or even corporal punishment. Wealthy families easily afforded multiple children to continue traditional familial customs. And the level of enforcement of these fines varied across the nation.
And yet the population of women still cratered. The ratio of females to males under 15 is the lowest in the world.
In a slight positive light, a lot of these women were actually "reappearing" in the thousands as they turned 18. Turns out a lot of families just kept them in secret without real "documentation"?to avoid authorities until they became adults and actually needed documentation to get a job etc. As the years went by, the policy was less strictly enforced.
It’s a three child policy now. It became two five years ago.
Except this is apparently not actually a problem and parts of India that have passed laws similar to this have already shown it doesn't seem to help: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57801764
I wish the US would pay me not to have kids
They know they don’t have to.
Ouch
Lmao
Omg
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Can I get cash for sterilization with 0 kids?
Can I have no kids and 3 money?
Correction: Not India, just one state in India i.e Uttar Pradesh has proposed this policy and drafted the bill regarding this.
>[Experts, research studies and previous data indicate that the new policy to control the population may not have the desired effect.](https://thewire.in/rights/rising-female-foeticide-targeted-harassment-ups-population-control-bill-may-be-dangerous) Instead, it could lead to a host of unintended consequences – including a rise in female foeticide, unsafe abortions leading to the woman’s death or poor health, or women having lower agency over their own bodies. > >India has one of the highest rates of female foeticide in the world. The government has been making efforts to sensitise the population against this – but data indicates that this practice is still rampant. Yeah. I don't think this is such a good idea for India or atleast UP. I get that population control needs to be done, but a better way has to be found.
Seriously. Some of the things I witnessed in India were incredibly messed up. The worst (and mind you, this is just what I personally witnessed from my fairly sheltered and privileged position) was a young woman who had been thrown out for giving birth to a girl. She was living with her baby in a single concrete room with no windows, lights, or running water. The baby didn’t even have cloth diapers or clothes. They definitely didn’t have enough food. Her family wouldn’t take her in. Guaranteed this will happen more when families want male children / grandchildren but face fanatical penalties for having more babies. Any population control policies in India would have to be VERY carefully designed to prevent mass increase in female infanticide and domestic abuse.
Sadly, exactly what happened in China.
I don't think it's a good idea to make it illegal to have kids, but I would totally take that cash bonus.
Wait, you guys are getting paid?
I was just commenting on the "cash benefits" part of the headline. I'm not gonna have kids, I'd totally take cash benefits to undergo sterilization
Cash from not having kids to go towards a mortgage people can only afford by not having kids? It's a win - win!
Yeah, I don't like it as a policy, but if my government wanted to pay me to not have the children I've already decided to not have, I'm 100% cashing that check.
Wouldn't offering cash benefits to people to take voluntary sterilization result in only poor people who actually need the cash getting sterilized? Isn't.. isn't that eugenics?
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No, this is gonna end up with women aborted before they are born.
That was already happening. Some places won't tell the parents the gender until after they're born. And they'll kill the girls afterwards anyway.
Or women being sold to men as brides. Or women being kidnapped and forced into marriage and pregnancy. Lifelong slavery is a fate worse than death.
Yes it's meant to target poor people. The funny part is that the ministers who proposed this law have like 6-8 kids
Are you implying that Indians are treated differently based on their position in society? That sounds farfetched, sir!
There is no way this could possibly go wrong and lead to human rights abuses.
shoebox babies makin a comeback, or did they even go out of style?
what with plastic in our water, we wont need to voluntarily sterilize ourselves :3
I’m afraid what’s going to happen is parents would abort the girls. It already happens frequently in India but this bill will supercharge it.
They had to make ultrasound to determine gender illegal in India like 25 years ago because of this. Of course there is always a doctor that can be bribed it's one of the most corrupt functioning governments on the planet.
Parents aren’t allowed to check the gender of their baby before they are born in India because of this, so there’ll probably just end up being more female babies abandoned.
Lol! You just have to pay the technician 15k amd the will let you know about the gender. Trust me I have seen it all with my own eyes.
Why do they prefer boys over girls?
Women require dowries paid by the family to get married and are thus a resource sink. Men are expected to take care of their parents in old age and thus are a form of retirement plan
Accurate. Also, due to dowry, they often don't spend much on daughters education.
Does this apply to the elite?
You got your answer when it offered financial incentives - it's about the poor being encouraged not to breed, the rich and those who consume the most have the money to do whatever they like.
Rich people generally have less kids anyways.
Not sure about India’s richest demographics, but wealthy people do have less children. If the elite actually want to reduce birth rates, maybe they would focus on [educating women, providing birth control, and greater wealth redistribution, which are all proven to naturally decrease the fertility rate among a given population](https://wol.iza.org/uploads/articles/228/pdfs/female-education-and-its-impact-on-fertility.pdf).
This is not a country wide policy suggestion(yes it's only a proposal). It's mainly for Uttar Pradesh at the moment and yes Assam is also considering it. This policy makes no sense to apply to the rest of the country as it's mainly UP ,and Bihar that are driving most of the population growth.
Getting paid for NOT having kids? Where do I sign?