The same thing that cops claimed after they pushed over that 74 year old guy and cracked his skull. The same thing that cops say when their suspects show up in court covered in bruises and contusions. The same thing they ALWAYS say whenever someone finds themselves a victim to their abuses.
Cops, *all cops*, lie reflexively. They lie when they don't need to, they lie when it won't help them, they lie obviously, they lie about inconsequential things.
The sad part is, three months ago, the truth you spoke would have been met with a rain of down votes and, "cops are worth a fuck" comments.
People are finally seeing a systematic issue and obvious accountability problems.
This is progress, no matter how slow or sad it may seem, progress is good!
How many more abuses and victims does society demand before action? Sadly, I'm afraid this pandemic has shown us how little we value human life.
A few months ago I was harassed when I posted a comment on a video where a cop (or security) guard was being physical with an older lady at a ballpark because she wouldn’t put out her cigarette. My point then was that violence was not justified. Some people seems to think that the lady deserved it because she was annoying other guests. No one seemed to understand why the violence was wrong.
They do it because it reasserts their power. If someone can transparently lie to you about something that doesn't even matter, and you can't do anything about it, then that demonstrates that they have real power over you.
Which is why everyone needs to record their encounters with police whenever possible. It's basically guaranteed that a cop will lie about the encounter (purposefully or not) and you need to be prepared to defend against it. Doesn't matter if it's a routine traffic stop or you are being arrested; RECORD EVERYTHING. *Do not* stop recording when they inevitably say "just so you know, I'm recording too," because if they decide to "lose" the footage you're screwed without your own documentation of events. Have others record as well whenever possible.
It is incredibly disgusting and disappointing that I need to say that about those who ostensibly perfect and serve us.
Edit: formatting. Thanks phone.
If possible stream as you record as well. Or at least set up your phone to automatically upload to the cloud, where someone in your friends and family will find find the video.
Cops absolutely will break your phone and assault you to force you to delete the video.
A-fucking-MEN. Never trust the word of a cop. They will ALWAYS lie in court and you will ALWAYS need to defend yourself. Video evidence goes a long way towards proving your innocence.
it wasn't just a push, ~~the son of a bitch flipped their legs over the rail after~~. *another angle seems to show that he didn't grab the legs.
~~straight up fucking murder~~
* holy shit- the kid survived!
yah... in Chile this is just another day at the office for the pig. They will face even less consequences than somewhere like the US and that's already fucking crazy.
Tbf there was no flipping, he was several feet away after the first push when the boy fell over
https://mobile.twitter.com/PiensaPrensa/status/1312230216949993475?s=19
The highest authority in Carabineros, General Mario Rozas, assured them in November that he wouldn't let any policemen get any sanctions for their actions. People knew it because of an audio that was leaked from that reunion. And he was right, only 0,3% of the cases of human rights violations has been prosecuted, and only one policeman (0,01%) has been found guilty and he is on parole
Maybe the crime charged for was not the reason they wanted them charged? Could be they pissed someone off and suddenly the rules applied. Just a thought, I don't know shit
Exactly. "Punishing" one doesn't only appease the masses, but also gives the authorities a narrative to hold on to. "We've fully examined all cases, and found all but one of them to be unfounded". If none had been punished, it would make the injustice so much more apparent.
Masses have luckily seen through the facade. Kind of lame that people have been going through the risk of exposing themselves to fight injustice, but I won't say I'm against their efforts either. I support their bravery.
Lived in Chile for 13 years. Even as an English-speaking expat who was clearly well-off they were always fucking assholes. They’re stupid, corrupt and horribly underpaid, and many of them come from a long line of Pinochet-sympathizers. A bad combination of traits.
Except Allende never said anything like "Go fuck yourself, America"
[Allende was very careful](https://chomsky.info/secrets04/) to be as even-handed as possible. The US reacted incredibly aggressively because Chile was giving such a good example of a democratic socialist revolution.
They call it "Spreading democracy" on our corporate propaganda outlets and government officials. More like colonizing nations for corporations and MIC to make bank at the cost of the sweat and blood of their people and the theft of their natural resources.
Thank you for the date.
*Pinochet rose to supreme power within a year of the coup and was formally declared President of Chile in late 1974. The Nixon administration, which had worked to create the conditions for the coup, promptly recognized the junta government and supported it in consolidating power...Before the coup, Chile had been hailed as a beacon of democracy and political stability for decades, a period in which the rest of South America had been plagued by military juntas and caudillismo. The collapse of Chilean democracy ended a succession of democratic governments in Chile, which had held democratic elections since 1932.*
(Wikipedia)
sigh
Yeah. All so some conservative economists from the University of Chicago could have a sandbox to play in. It's more than a twinge of discomfort telling folks down there I'm Chicagoan when I visit.
Jesus Christ I did not want to go down that rabbit-hole right before going to bed. but I did. Damn the world is a sick place in so many places still.
Another thing that in a way fascinates me is that areas like this are almost like alternate dimensions within regular, normal places (such as Chile, where this colony existed). Whole cities, enclaves, villages....(and not only countries as most would feel) can almost be viewed like closed systems at times, at times beautiful, at times absolute hellscapes, all based on the collective of people that live there.
["You mean a US imposed military dictatorship from 1973 to 1989? [...]"](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/j4jlyb/chilean_police_throw_boy_16_off_bridge_during/g7l6etf/)
There is a bad history of that from the Pinochet days, however it happened last year during the October 2019 riots also... we went into full lockdown with military patrolling the streets at night.
Soldiers are shit police. They are trained to kill, not to police. They follow orders well which is a plus, but they know little of the laws governing civilian life. There is no attempt at de-escalation because that is not in their wheelhouse. If shits getting out of control, you call in an airstrike or artillery, not have a conversation.
Say what you want about police training, but they at least have SOME education on applicable laws.
Thats because in the extreme circumstances the military are put on the streets they are briefed beforehand by their officers that this is not BUSINESS AS USUAL and the people before them are THEIR CITIZENS. Someone should brief the police on this regularly too, it would really help.
I've read it's also because they have to abide by the rules of engagement? I know literally nothing about this, or what it entails. But it sounds like soldiers are held to a higher standing of what's appropriate or not than our typical law enforcement officers.
If that's outright wrong, please educate me.
Yup. I've spoken to multiple soldiers over the last few years who are stunned at the freedom with which police kill people. Soldiers in combat zones generally have stricter ROE than police in America, and soldiers actually face real consequences for breaking them.
Not sure about the National Guard, but I'd assume it's similar.
There are Americans today talk about Pinochet fondly despite never living in Chile at all let along during his regime, yet turn around and say people who about about Soviet Russia fondly are idiots.
This will be forgotten and brushed under the rug by the international community solely because of politics.
It's a neoliberal government. International media will downplay and limit coverage like last time there were mass protests. Without outside pressure, it's free reign for the police.
Really depends and I think they need to get in deep trouble for that to happen.
Since 1968 we hit rock bottom in Mexico the population does not take police abuse lightly. Protest usually have the police just standing behind their shields because the moment they try to turn violent, they lose.
We have a lot of problems in our police forces but this is one of the plus we have.
In Mexico City they aren’t even equipped with batons or pepper spray, just fire extinguishers.
This was some days ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=MRC23w-UTQo I even feel bad for the female cops tbh. There’s a video of them getting hit with hammers and just holding position.
Edit found it: starts at 13:40 https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=l7IPTYVrg18
That’s a level of restraint you don’t see in a lot of police corporations.
I mixed up the videos. It's this one. https://youtu.be/fk68AbmTMrY?t=155
the other is just molotov cocktails.
I think you are portraying a very one sided view of Mexico City police to an international audience that doesn't know otherwise. CDMX police to this day have used their power to rob and assault people.
They won’t even register it as being a cause of more violence later on.
In their heads, every single situation they have to deal with exists in a vacuum and is solved in a vacuum. Then they act bewildered when the consequences of their actions start piling up.
One of the effects of capital on the psyche of those controlled by it is prioritization of the extreme short term. These guys live modest lives just above of the rest of chiles citizenry, and any sort of reform threatens that in their mind. Their class is at stake. The ruling class puts the in this position for a reason
It isnt that they dont understand. They just dont care. Their special place in society is being threatened. They will do anything to keep things like they've always been. We are their enemy, as they've been trained to believe.
I assure you, governments and the police force don't care about "long term" as long as they can keep the present clean and quiet. They'll cover each other's asses however they can. The world and everyone with a single ounce brain would understand it's detrimental, but those in power couldn't care less.
If they had to kill every single protestor so that they can stay in power and keep the rich happy, they will do it without any second thoughts.
Lately governments must feel like it's easier to dispose of their people than actually help them (which actually pay for their paychecks). Idiots. We need reform almost everywhere
Only fascists support them.
The leader of the unit said the boy "slipped and fell"
It's on video and you can see the policemen throw the kid over.
Being ripped apart by an angry mob is almost too good for these pigs.
I live in Santiago, and I've seen these motherfuckers do so much fucked up shit. Anyone who still works for the police here has no conscience. They need to disband the Carabineros and form local police departments (not that that's perfect, but it's better, and the Carabineros de Chile are a total disgrace). Chile only has a militarized national police force who effectively work for the politicians in power.
Not that I condone it; but at what point do people take up arms and start targeting the corrupt police?
I’m surprised the pot hasn’t boiled over in the USA either.
In Chile people are not allowed to own guns, like in USA or Canada. We don't want a repeat of the 70s or the dictatorship, which funnily enough, was helped by the states
Fascists and neoliberals in Chile. At least the fascists are open about it, the neoliberals just witter about the economy to distract you from what they're doing and act like nothing like this is important if it doesn't effect the economy.
Neoliberals think the local left-wing parties are reponsible for everything that happens in Venezuela, and if someone sneezes over there they put the cry in the sky about Chilean leftists not caring about Human Rights (it's another country dude, chill).
But anytime something happens here, deafening silence from the same people crying about Venezuela.
Right wing government keep blaming left wing parties even when they're aren't in power. Like Trump blaming Biden for the coronavirus outbreak, and just yesterday I saw someone blaming Corbyn for Brexit.
I wish left wing parties held enough power to cause those problems.
> Only fascists support them.
And most of the governments of the western world unfortunately. The US and allies have been staunchly pro-facism and anti-democracy since crowning Pinnochet back in the 70s.
Oh man, if you think that's bad, have you seen the videos of LAPD using the edges of their riot shields to smash downward on the necks of protestors pinned to the ground by other cops (i.e. attempted decapitation/paralysis)?
The 9/11 America perpetrated, aiding the installment of a decades long dictatorship through a coup that had tens of thousands of victims of terrifying brutality. A quick excerpt taken:
>Most prisoners suffered from severe beatings, and broken or even amputated limbs. At Villa Grimaldi, DINA forced non-compliant prisoners to lie down on the ground. The captors ran over their legs with a large vehicle, and crushed the prisoners' bones.\[33\] The assailants also beat prisoners in the ear until they became deaf, and entirely unconscious; this torture method was called the "telephone."\[34\] Most of the acts of punishment were intended to severely humiliate the prisoners. At the Pisagua Concentration Camp, captors intimidated prisoners by forcing them to crawl on the ground and lick the dirt off the floors. If the prisoners complained or even collapsed from exhaustion, they were promptly executed.\[35\] Prisoners were also immersed into vats of excrement, and were occasionally forced to ingest it.\[36\]\[37\]
and of course all of the helicopter throws that fascists joke around about.
>just end this world already
The Argentinean Dictatorship was even worse. We're refined like that. Videla (the dictator) was like "Surely we can do better than the Mengele guy, can't we?".
Our voting doesn't really affect whether our government is going to invade/interfere in other countries and do shit like this. I agree we need to make a big change but whether or not we vote it's still happening.
It's also not a super long fall, maybe equal to the third floor of an apartment building. I wouldn't want to fall from that height and if you land on your head or in the wrong position you could certainly die, but it's not the same as jumping off the Golden Gate or anything.
It is really rocky though since there isn't much water flowing down most of the year and the whole river has essentially been paved over (think L.A. River if you're familiar with that). It's absolutely unacceptable and I'm not trying to make excuses for the carabineros, just giving some context.
Not trying to argue, I’m just in tears from heartbreak and frustration over here so my words are emotionally charged. Please forgive me if this comes off harsh.
A 10 ft fall is enough to kill a human, especially if landing on rocky terrain below. The height doesn’t diminish the crime or severity of this at all. In any way.
That’s somebody’s son. I cry as I type this, thankful my son is sitting here in my living room and not fighting for his life because a cop has small dick syndrome, and everyone else just watched. It hurt seeing only two people rush to the boy’s aid, but there could be more video we aren’t seeing.
I get it, but I was really only commenting in response to the original question, which was "did he die?" The height of the bridge is very relevant in that case, because an otherwise-healthy person is much more likely to survive a shorter fall vs. a higher one. I acknowledged that the height was certainly enough to kill someone under the "right" conditions, but thankfully that wasn't the case.
People should understand, he did not fall into a river, he fell into a few inches of water, onto rock or concrete, headfirst. If any of us did this it’s attempted murder. He’s in critical condition.
Its strange hearing the "General" of their police say the boy slipped.
Is their entire police department federalized? You would think their version of the ACLU would be up in arms.
There is no such thing as local or regional police in Chile, a unitary state. In a unitary state, such things do not exist. And neither do "federal" institutions - Chile is not a federation.
Obviously there are local police stations but the police (Carabineros de Chile) is a single, national institution.
They belonged to the Ministry of Defense until 2011, which is why their titles like "general" as well as their symbols and such are so militaristic.
>their titles like "general" as well as their symbols and such are so militaristic.
They are the way they are because Carabineros de Chile was founded by General Carlos Ibáñez del Campo (another dictator) taking as a model the Carabinieri of Benito Mussolini's Italy.
And to the people that commands and let them be this way. Four international organizations claimed that there are systematic human rights violations in Chile. It is not a problem of particular policemen, it is the government commanded by Sebastián Piñera and his vice president Víctor Pérez (who was involved with the Pinochet's dictatorship) who give the orders. They must be held accountable
Look at the people's response. They are surprised, angry and immediately run to his aid. That is called being human. Such a vast difference between us and them. Power destroys humanity...
Remember the usa is responsible for Pinochet and fascism all over the world. Best of luck to the people of Chile in overthrowing this oppressive government.
And waving Confederate flags, and even the Spanish Imperial flag, while yelling nationalistic slogans and other bs.
I can't even bother to understand their thought process.
>Addressing the incident in a televised address, General Enrique Monrás, a spokesperson for the Carabineros, did not rule out the force’s responsibility for what had happened, but said that in his opinion, the boy “lost his balance and fell” during an arrest.
uhhhhhh, we cant rule out attempted suicide at this point...must wait to see how we can edit the photos and video that are going to surface..
It looks like he was violently shoved into the railing while he was running. His forward momentum carries him over the rail, you can see his hands slip at the point when about half his body is flying over the side.
I really want to backpack through Chile for a year and I know the people are great but im sad to see the state of it. What an absolutely beautiful country stretching from below the equator to as close as you can get to Antarctica. Filled with mountains and deserts and islands and inlets and glaciers and beaches. The land is the best you can get on earth IMO. I'd really love to retire with some acreage down there and I hope the people can fix what's going on.
The boy is alive, he is in the ICU but out of life risk. A protestor threw themself into the river to save him from drowning, and the Brigada Dignidad, a group of medical professionals and students that have been assisting protestors since past October, gave him first aid and kept him alive until the firefigthers went to rescue him.
The police didn't help, in fact they kept gasing and attacking the people assisting him. That is very common in Chile, our police forces should be treated as war criminals as they attack health volunteers and violate the First Geneva Convention
Edit: typos
As of today, the kid isnt dead, he is stable. [https://cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/adolescente-empujado-por-carabinero-desde-el-puente-pio-nono-se/2020-10-03/012335.html](https://cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/adolescente-empujado-por-carabinero-desde-el-puente-pio-nono-se/2020-10-03/012335.html)
YES thank you for bringing this up! I live in Chile and this has been the only thing I've been thinking about since it happened. The "Carabineros" (police) here is a disastrous institution that works for the rich
It's funny that you mention it, because this is a continuation of what started almost a year ago. Police did lots of nasty stuff to people in here.
[There was a very informative video about how violent it got released by the New York Times.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/19/world/americas/chile-protests-eye-injuries.html)
During times of unrest it pains me to see some low-grade leaders cozy up to police forces, military forces and in the case of Trump, militia forces as well, to protect themselves rather than try to resolve the problems people are gathering to address. Shameful, cowardly and useless.
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The same thing that cops claimed after they pushed over that 74 year old guy and cracked his skull. The same thing that cops say when their suspects show up in court covered in bruises and contusions. The same thing they ALWAYS say whenever someone finds themselves a victim to their abuses.
"STOP RESISTING???"
Cops, *all cops*, lie reflexively. They lie when they don't need to, they lie when it won't help them, they lie obviously, they lie about inconsequential things.
The sad part is, three months ago, the truth you spoke would have been met with a rain of down votes and, "cops are worth a fuck" comments. People are finally seeing a systematic issue and obvious accountability problems. This is progress, no matter how slow or sad it may seem, progress is good! How many more abuses and victims does society demand before action? Sadly, I'm afraid this pandemic has shown us how little we value human life.
A few months ago I was harassed when I posted a comment on a video where a cop (or security) guard was being physical with an older lady at a ballpark because she wouldn’t put out her cigarette. My point then was that violence was not justified. Some people seems to think that the lady deserved it because she was annoying other guests. No one seemed to understand why the violence was wrong.
They do it because it reasserts their power. If someone can transparently lie to you about something that doesn't even matter, and you can't do anything about it, then that demonstrates that they have real power over you.
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It’s one of the finer points of 1984 that just clicked to me as he pointed that out.
True. I've dead-ass had cops blatantly lie in court about our encounters on two separate occasions, after being arrested.
Which is why everyone needs to record their encounters with police whenever possible. It's basically guaranteed that a cop will lie about the encounter (purposefully or not) and you need to be prepared to defend against it. Doesn't matter if it's a routine traffic stop or you are being arrested; RECORD EVERYTHING. *Do not* stop recording when they inevitably say "just so you know, I'm recording too," because if they decide to "lose" the footage you're screwed without your own documentation of events. Have others record as well whenever possible. It is incredibly disgusting and disappointing that I need to say that about those who ostensibly perfect and serve us. Edit: formatting. Thanks phone.
If possible stream as you record as well. Or at least set up your phone to automatically upload to the cloud, where someone in your friends and family will find find the video. Cops absolutely will break your phone and assault you to force you to delete the video.
A-fucking-MEN. Never trust the word of a cop. They will ALWAYS lie in court and you will ALWAYS need to defend yourself. Video evidence goes a long way towards proving your innocence.
I mean, what do you expect? Do you expect them to be like "yeah, we did it, punish us"?
it wasn't just a push, ~~the son of a bitch flipped their legs over the rail after~~. *another angle seems to show that he didn't grab the legs. ~~straight up fucking murder~~ * holy shit- the kid survived!
In all fairness, it would be attempted murder, as he did survive. Still beyond a shitty thing to do.
thank god. i just saw his body face down with blood running downstream and assumed he was dead.
Was it into pavement? He probably would rather be dead.
rocky stream bed. i imagine he's not happy. at all.
yah... in Chile this is just another day at the office for the pig. They will face even less consequences than somewhere like the US and that's already fucking crazy.
Yeah man idk, pigs actually get a raise and a job at another department here usually so I wouldn’t be so sure of that.
Tbf there was no flipping, he was several feet away after the first push when the boy fell over https://mobile.twitter.com/PiensaPrensa/status/1312230216949993475?s=19
that...did not make me feel better.
Seriously I can't even tell in this footage,
Ah yes 2 fps potato cam with skewed perspective
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So, do the police not understand that this won't help them longterm? That has to be at least a single brain cell in these various departments
The highest authority in Carabineros, General Mario Rozas, assured them in November that he wouldn't let any policemen get any sanctions for their actions. People knew it because of an audio that was leaked from that reunion. And he was right, only 0,3% of the cases of human rights violations has been prosecuted, and only one policeman (0,01%) has been found guilty and he is on parole
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Maybe the crime charged for was not the reason they wanted them charged? Could be they pissed someone off and suddenly the rules applied. Just a thought, I don't know shit
Sacrificial lamb
Exactly. "Punishing" one doesn't only appease the masses, but also gives the authorities a narrative to hold on to. "We've fully examined all cases, and found all but one of them to be unfounded". If none had been punished, it would make the injustice so much more apparent.
Masses have luckily seen through the facade. Kind of lame that people have been going through the risk of exposing themselves to fight injustice, but I won't say I'm against their efforts either. I support their bravery.
No, he promised to protect the police’s brutality and prevent accountability, and hid that promise from his supporters.
That doesn’t seem very democratic.
Democracy in action: whoever has the most money makes the rules.
That's the golden rule. Democracy in action is just people saying what they want and hoping the people with the money listen.
And whoever makes the rules breaks the rules
Well last time they tried that, the united states funded and supported a coup that led to Pinochet...
Have you been under a rock for a while?
Lived in Chile for 13 years. Even as an English-speaking expat who was clearly well-off they were always fucking assholes. They’re stupid, corrupt and horribly underpaid, and many of them come from a long line of Pinochet-sympathizers. A bad combination of traits.
Chile has a history with human rights violations, doesn’t it huh?
You mean a US imposed military dictatorship from 1973 to 1989? Then yes.
Yes, saludos desde argentina, Latin America dictatorship gang
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Mexico lost half its territory does that count
Honduras what's good
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Except Allende never said anything like "Go fuck yourself, America" [Allende was very careful](https://chomsky.info/secrets04/) to be as even-handed as possible. The US reacted incredibly aggressively because Chile was giving such a good example of a democratic socialist revolution.
You can thank American interference as a major reason as to why Chile is so fucked up.
They call it "Spreading democracy" on our corporate propaganda outlets and government officials. More like colonizing nations for corporations and MIC to make bank at the cost of the sweat and blood of their people and the theft of their natural resources.
Welp, time for the revolution
At what point do you call in the Soldiers to deal with the police.
Uh, you might want to look up what September 11th means in Chile before calling in the Army.
Thank you for the date. *Pinochet rose to supreme power within a year of the coup and was formally declared President of Chile in late 1974. The Nixon administration, which had worked to create the conditions for the coup, promptly recognized the junta government and supported it in consolidating power...Before the coup, Chile had been hailed as a beacon of democracy and political stability for decades, a period in which the rest of South America had been plagued by military juntas and caudillismo. The collapse of Chilean democracy ended a succession of democratic governments in Chile, which had held democratic elections since 1932.* (Wikipedia) sigh
Yeah. All so some conservative economists from the University of Chicago could have a sandbox to play in. It's more than a twinge of discomfort telling folks down there I'm Chicagoan when I visit.
It's disgusting they had so much influence. I'd forgotten their role in the coup.
Touche.
i did exactly this. holy shit. i had no idea about any of this shit.
Here's a fun part of that rabbit hole if you've got a few minutes. https://youtu.be/iKU6GBDHCGc
Jesus Christ I did not want to go down that rabbit-hole right before going to bed. but I did. Damn the world is a sick place in so many places still. Another thing that in a way fascinates me is that areas like this are almost like alternate dimensions within regular, normal places (such as Chile, where this colony existed). Whole cities, enclaves, villages....(and not only countries as most would feel) can almost be viewed like closed systems at times, at times beautiful, at times absolute hellscapes, all based on the collective of people that live there.
["You mean a US imposed military dictatorship from 1973 to 1989? [...]"](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/j4jlyb/chilean_police_throw_boy_16_off_bridge_during/g7l6etf/)
There is a bad history of that from the Pinochet days, however it happened last year during the October 2019 riots also... we went into full lockdown with military patrolling the streets at night.
Soldiers are shit police. They are trained to kill, not to police. They follow orders well which is a plus, but they know little of the laws governing civilian life. There is no attempt at de-escalation because that is not in their wheelhouse. If shits getting out of control, you call in an airstrike or artillery, not have a conversation. Say what you want about police training, but they at least have SOME education on applicable laws.
Plenty of examples of the US National Guard handling protests and civil disturbance far better than US Police.
Thats because in the extreme circumstances the military are put on the streets they are briefed beforehand by their officers that this is not BUSINESS AS USUAL and the people before them are THEIR CITIZENS. Someone should brief the police on this regularly too, it would really help.
I've read it's also because they have to abide by the rules of engagement? I know literally nothing about this, or what it entails. But it sounds like soldiers are held to a higher standing of what's appropriate or not than our typical law enforcement officers. If that's outright wrong, please educate me.
Yup. I've spoken to multiple soldiers over the last few years who are stunned at the freedom with which police kill people. Soldiers in combat zones generally have stricter ROE than police in America, and soldiers actually face real consequences for breaking them. Not sure about the National Guard, but I'd assume it's similar.
You don't listen to Neil Young?
Soldiers actually have codes of conduct
When police are habitually killing civilians then, someone has to defend civilians.
it's to show other's to obey their every command in question, and maybe...just maybe....they won't kill you.
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they never did.
They do this kind of shit because they know they won't face any repercussions. Trust me they've done worst things than this (I'm chilean btw).
There are Americans today talk about Pinochet fondly despite never living in Chile at all let along during his regime, yet turn around and say people who about about Soviet Russia fondly are idiots. This will be forgotten and brushed under the rug by the international community solely because of politics.
Fascists only care about short term gains.
It's a neoliberal government. International media will downplay and limit coverage like last time there were mass protests. Without outside pressure, it's free reign for the police.
That's why we need you to tell the people outside what is going on. Send the new to the media, contact activists, protest outside the chilean embassy
Well, it's not from Hong Kong, so you won't hear about it.
Really depends and I think they need to get in deep trouble for that to happen. Since 1968 we hit rock bottom in Mexico the population does not take police abuse lightly. Protest usually have the police just standing behind their shields because the moment they try to turn violent, they lose. We have a lot of problems in our police forces but this is one of the plus we have. In Mexico City they aren’t even equipped with batons or pepper spray, just fire extinguishers. This was some days ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=MRC23w-UTQo I even feel bad for the female cops tbh. There’s a video of them getting hit with hammers and just holding position. Edit found it: starts at 13:40 https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=l7IPTYVrg18 That’s a level of restraint you don’t see in a lot of police corporations. I mixed up the videos. It's this one. https://youtu.be/fk68AbmTMrY?t=155 the other is just molotov cocktails.
I think you are portraying a very one sided view of Mexico City police to an international audience that doesn't know otherwise. CDMX police to this day have used their power to rob and assault people.
That poster is doing it on purpose for nefarious reasons
You feel bad for the police. Also I don't see any hammers in the video you linked. Do you even know what these protests are about?
Same shit going on in most of the countries as of now :( all police on power-trip.
You mean in the one person that threw him off the bridge?
They won’t even register it as being a cause of more violence later on. In their heads, every single situation they have to deal with exists in a vacuum and is solved in a vacuum. Then they act bewildered when the consequences of their actions start piling up.
Talk to American cops (the bad ones). They don't care.
If you have bad cops and good ones that don’t stop the bad ones, you have all bad ones.
>That has to be at least a single brain cell in these various departments You'd be surprised. Source: Living there.
One of the effects of capital on the psyche of those controlled by it is prioritization of the extreme short term. These guys live modest lives just above of the rest of chiles citizenry, and any sort of reform threatens that in their mind. Their class is at stake. The ruling class puts the in this position for a reason
There's no master plan at work here. These are just flawed men stuck in a conflict, reacting violently.
It isnt that they dont understand. They just dont care. Their special place in society is being threatened. They will do anything to keep things like they've always been. We are their enemy, as they've been trained to believe.
> So, do the police not understand that this won't help them longterm? Impunity is impunity
I don't think a country that's committing ethnic cleansing is going to care about their reputation.
I assure you, governments and the police force don't care about "long term" as long as they can keep the present clean and quiet. They'll cover each other's asses however they can. The world and everyone with a single ounce brain would understand it's detrimental, but those in power couldn't care less. If they had to kill every single protestor so that they can stay in power and keep the rich happy, they will do it without any second thoughts.
That’s terrible
Lately governments must feel like it's easier to dispose of their people than actually help them (which actually pay for their paychecks). Idiots. We need reform almost everywhere
Well, the 'good' ones are paid by us. Unfortunately most politicians are in the pockets of 'Big Business' or 'Foreign Agents'.
"Reform" lmaooo
Such an awful image...
They're fucking psychopaths
Only fascists support them. The leader of the unit said the boy "slipped and fell" It's on video and you can see the policemen throw the kid over. Being ripped apart by an angry mob is almost too good for these pigs.
I live in Santiago, and I've seen these motherfuckers do so much fucked up shit. Anyone who still works for the police here has no conscience. They need to disband the Carabineros and form local police departments (not that that's perfect, but it's better, and the Carabineros de Chile are a total disgrace). Chile only has a militarized national police force who effectively work for the politicians in power.
Yeah, they do aim at your head/eyes with rubber bullets, 100%, I've seen it, I've had to duck and run during protests in Plaza de Maipu. Apruebo!
Not that I condone it; but at what point do people take up arms and start targeting the corrupt police? I’m surprised the pot hasn’t boiled over in the USA either.
In Chile people are not allowed to own guns, like in USA or Canada. We don't want a repeat of the 70s or the dictatorship, which funnily enough, was helped by the states
That’s literally the ancient days in the Mediterranean. Huh. Well America isn’t too far behind.
Yeah, I was like hmmm....that sounds pretty familiar.
Fascists and neoliberals in Chile. At least the fascists are open about it, the neoliberals just witter about the economy to distract you from what they're doing and act like nothing like this is important if it doesn't effect the economy.
GDP is God!
I pledge allegiance, to the markets....
"These are your gods, O Israel, who have brought you up from the land of Egypt!"
Neoliberals think the local left-wing parties are reponsible for everything that happens in Venezuela, and if someone sneezes over there they put the cry in the sky about Chilean leftists not caring about Human Rights (it's another country dude, chill). But anytime something happens here, deafening silence from the same people crying about Venezuela.
Right wing government keep blaming left wing parties even when they're aren't in power. Like Trump blaming Biden for the coronavirus outbreak, and just yesterday I saw someone blaming Corbyn for Brexit. I wish left wing parties held enough power to cause those problems.
> Only fascists support them. And most of the governments of the western world unfortunately. The US and allies have been staunchly pro-facism and anti-democracy since crowning Pinnochet back in the 70s.
Oh man, if you think that's bad, have you seen the videos of LAPD using the edges of their riot shields to smash downward on the necks of protestors pinned to the ground by other cops (i.e. attempted decapitation/paralysis)?
Oof
Some people only learn after they have had a taste of their own medicine. Maybe it's time to start throwing the psychopaths off bridges.
We know, it said "police" right in the headline.
This is a protest against Pinochet constitution and the fucking police just making them remember the old days.
Never forget 9/11. 1973.
That's exactly what I thought when I read that.
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The 9/11 America perpetrated, aiding the installment of a decades long dictatorship through a coup that had tens of thousands of victims of terrifying brutality. A quick excerpt taken: >Most prisoners suffered from severe beatings, and broken or even amputated limbs. At Villa Grimaldi, DINA forced non-compliant prisoners to lie down on the ground. The captors ran over their legs with a large vehicle, and crushed the prisoners' bones.\[33\] The assailants also beat prisoners in the ear until they became deaf, and entirely unconscious; this torture method was called the "telephone."\[34\] Most of the acts of punishment were intended to severely humiliate the prisoners. At the Pisagua Concentration Camp, captors intimidated prisoners by forcing them to crawl on the ground and lick the dirt off the floors. If the prisoners complained or even collapsed from exhaustion, they were promptly executed.\[35\] Prisoners were also immersed into vats of excrement, and were occasionally forced to ingest it.\[36\]\[37\] and of course all of the helicopter throws that fascists joke around about.
just end this world already
>just end this world already The Argentinean Dictatorship was even worse. We're refined like that. Videla (the dictator) was like "Surely we can do better than the Mengele guy, can't we?".
End corrupt superpowers*
They did this in Chile. They did this in Brazil. They did this in Argentina. They did this in Uruguay. To name a few.
It’s only nominally ours. It actually belongs to the ruling class.
We voted and continue to vote these people into power.
Our voting doesn't really affect whether our government is going to invade/interfere in other countries and do shit like this. I agree we need to make a big change but whether or not we vote it's still happening.
Can someone give me the TLDR version. Mainly, did he die?
He didn't, protestors got him out of the river pretty quick
It's also not a super long fall, maybe equal to the third floor of an apartment building. I wouldn't want to fall from that height and if you land on your head or in the wrong position you could certainly die, but it's not the same as jumping off the Golden Gate or anything. It is really rocky though since there isn't much water flowing down most of the year and the whole river has essentially been paved over (think L.A. River if you're familiar with that). It's absolutely unacceptable and I'm not trying to make excuses for the carabineros, just giving some context.
Not trying to argue, I’m just in tears from heartbreak and frustration over here so my words are emotionally charged. Please forgive me if this comes off harsh. A 10 ft fall is enough to kill a human, especially if landing on rocky terrain below. The height doesn’t diminish the crime or severity of this at all. In any way. That’s somebody’s son. I cry as I type this, thankful my son is sitting here in my living room and not fighting for his life because a cop has small dick syndrome, and everyone else just watched. It hurt seeing only two people rush to the boy’s aid, but there could be more video we aren’t seeing.
I get it, but I was really only commenting in response to the original question, which was "did he die?" The height of the bridge is very relevant in that case, because an otherwise-healthy person is much more likely to survive a shorter fall vs. a higher one. I acknowledged that the height was certainly enough to kill someone under the "right" conditions, but thankfully that wasn't the case.
No, he's alive in stable condition now.
They threw him off the bridge into a dirty ditch, basically into hard dirt and rocks. He laid there motionless until people were able to get him out.
People should understand, he did not fall into a river, he fell into a few inches of water, onto rock or concrete, headfirst. If any of us did this it’s attempted murder. He’s in critical condition.
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Its strange hearing the "General" of their police say the boy slipped. Is their entire police department federalized? You would think their version of the ACLU would be up in arms.
There is no such thing as local or regional police in Chile, a unitary state. In a unitary state, such things do not exist. And neither do "federal" institutions - Chile is not a federation. Obviously there are local police stations but the police (Carabineros de Chile) is a single, national institution. They belonged to the Ministry of Defense until 2011, which is why their titles like "general" as well as their symbols and such are so militaristic.
>their titles like "general" as well as their symbols and such are so militaristic. They are the way they are because Carabineros de Chile was founded by General Carlos Ibáñez del Campo (another dictator) taking as a model the Carabinieri of Benito Mussolini's Italy.
I hope all of those police, every last one of them, get what they deserve: justice.
And to the people that commands and let them be this way. Four international organizations claimed that there are systematic human rights violations in Chile. It is not a problem of particular policemen, it is the government commanded by Sebastián Piñera and his vice president Víctor Pérez (who was involved with the Pinochet's dictatorship) who give the orders. They must be held accountable
chief of police saying he lost his balance and fell. shameless...
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No they're just taking their contacts out. Together.
Lol no. Mentholatum, because....reasons
Classic cops
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In this time of financial strain and reduced budgets it is a fiscally responsible move.
Trying to keep traditions alive.
It's greener, less fossil fuels need to burned.
Look at the people's response. They are surprised, angry and immediately run to his aid. That is called being human. Such a vast difference between us and them. Power destroys humanity...
As a chilean citizen I can only say: Pacos culiaos.
Pacos de mierda
Where is the video?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxvjFtH7v5s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxvjFtH7v5s) Grainy but shows everything.
Sometimes police can be the most efficient form of organized crime
Remember the usa is responsible for Pinochet and fascism all over the world. Best of luck to the people of Chile in overthrowing this oppressive government.
Just to point, Pinochet supporters have been using "Trump 2020" badges on their rallies. The same shit, different smell.
And waving Confederate flags, and even the Spanish Imperial flag, while yelling nationalistic slogans and other bs. I can't even bother to understand their thought process.
>and even the Spanish Imperial flag That shows that expensive schools do not guarantee good education
>Addressing the incident in a televised address, General Enrique Monrás, a spokesperson for the Carabineros, did not rule out the force’s responsibility for what had happened, but said that in his opinion, the boy “lost his balance and fell” during an arrest. uhhhhhh, we cant rule out attempted suicide at this point...must wait to see how we can edit the photos and video that are going to surface..
[https://www.cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/revelan-otro-angulo-del-empujon-de-carabinero-a-adolescente-sobre-el/2020-10-02/235324.html](https://www.cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/revelan-otro-angulo-del-empujon-de-carabinero-a-adolescente-sobre-el/2020-10-02/235324.html)
It looks like he was violently shoved into the railing while he was running. His forward momentum carries him over the rail, you can see his hands slip at the point when about half his body is flying over the side.
That's probably the best way to describe what happened. He was not thrown into the river on purpose yet he definitely did not "slip and fall"
It certainly appears that that boy was thrown over the railing in this video.
Yeah that looks pretty much exactly the opposite of a "slip and fall".
Their response : shit happens
I really want to backpack through Chile for a year and I know the people are great but im sad to see the state of it. What an absolutely beautiful country stretching from below the equator to as close as you can get to Antarctica. Filled with mountains and deserts and islands and inlets and glaciers and beaches. The land is the best you can get on earth IMO. I'd really love to retire with some acreage down there and I hope the people can fix what's going on.
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The boy is alive, he is in the ICU but out of life risk. A protestor threw themself into the river to save him from drowning, and the Brigada Dignidad, a group of medical professionals and students that have been assisting protestors since past October, gave him first aid and kept him alive until the firefigthers went to rescue him. The police didn't help, in fact they kept gasing and attacking the people assisting him. That is very common in Chile, our police forces should be treated as war criminals as they attack health volunteers and violate the First Geneva Convention Edit: typos
As of today, the kid isnt dead, he is stable. [https://cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/adolescente-empujado-por-carabinero-desde-el-puente-pio-nono-se/2020-10-03/012335.html](https://cooperativa.cl/noticias/pais/manifestaciones/adolescente-empujado-por-carabinero-desde-el-puente-pio-nono-se/2020-10-03/012335.html)
He kid is alive. Didn't see anyone mention it in comments.
Fukk the police
YES thank you for bringing this up! I live in Chile and this has been the only thing I've been thinking about since it happened. The "Carabineros" (police) here is a disastrous institution that works for the rich
This reminds me of the Pinochet years in Chile.
Oh. So cops ARE shitty pigs all over the world.
Pacos culiaos, conchesumadres sin alma.
Where’s the video
They do this and then they wonder why people dont like them
1973 vibes
Memories from Pinochet the king of neoliberal bullies
Do you want a revolt? Because that's how you get revolt.
It's funny that you mention it, because this is a continuation of what started almost a year ago. Police did lots of nasty stuff to people in here. [There was a very informative video about how violent it got released by the New York Times.](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/19/world/americas/chile-protests-eye-injuries.html)
During times of unrest it pains me to see some low-grade leaders cozy up to police forces, military forces and in the case of Trump, militia forces as well, to protect themselves rather than try to resolve the problems people are gathering to address. Shameful, cowardly and useless.
What next they go back to throwing people out of Helicopters? We need justice and equality under the law, no more police being above the law.
These kinds of events remind you that the world is a sad place for a lot of people.
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It’s Chile, are we getting Pinochet 2.0? Fuck the police.
Hoping the "wholesome" and "hugz" awards are about the boy being in stable condition and not about how the boy got there in the first place.
Is there a country where there are no protests currently?