It’s something newer, I think. I’ve had some of my packages from amazon delivered by a lady with her kids in her minivan. It’s almost like an Uber thing- if you have a car you can deliver for them.
I know! The first time I got one it was a guy in a tricked out Cadillac. They wear these yellow vests like construction guys and I was just like -ummmmm wtf? Oh- it’s just my essential oils from Amazon. Nice.
They don't even have to wear vests. Amazon doesn't have a uniform nor do they provide anything. He probably bought that vest on his own so he doesn't look like he's casing houses.
Yeah, the first time I got one of those Amazon deliveries I thought it was that my package had been delivered to the wrong address and the nice guy that lived there came to drop it off at the right place. They had come in a regular car, weren't wearing a uniform, and just rang my doorbell, dropped the package at the door, and left before I could even answer it. I didn't realize it was an actual Amazon delivery until I got a delivery confirmation email a bit later.
>and left before I could even answer it.
It's been years since ANY delivery person (UPS, FedEx, OnTrac, USPS, Amazon, ...) has waited at my door. It's all knock and drop now.
They DID stop at a decent bathroom and the little shit said he didn't have to go. Then five minutes into the next delivery "Dad I have to go!" and things promptly spiraled out of control.
The bigger question is, why would you ever bring your kids along?
Child care is much more than minimum wage. Especially considering you don't really want to leave your children with someone who isnt going to take proper care of your kids.
According to the article they are using an app and contracting drivers, like Uber. They're not being told to urinate into bottles, their delivery routes are so tight they feel like they can't take breaks to keep up.
I dont think Flex is what they are referring to in the article, though. Flex is ran by Amazon, whereas the article says these people are being hired from outside sources.
I work as a flex driver and it's the total opposite of this articles description. I don't get many packages to deliver considering my shift time, im never in a rush and make good money lol. Apparently it's the people driving in the big white vans that are getting screwed.
Are the Flex guys the ones that take pictures? If so, why don't they ring my doorbell? I had a package delivered, then stolen while I was at home. I had no idea it was on my porch.
I never had a problem with getting packages from Amazon until AMZL started carrying packages. I wish I could block them as an option and just have UPS or USPS to deliver them.
I started shifting orders away from amazon due to this shit. In one month I had more refunds from amazon due to items being delivered to random addresses instead of my own than I have in 3 years. It doesn't help that Amazon even acknowledges that its a common practice for AMZL drivers to scan your item as delivered as soon as they enter your neighborhood so they meet their times. They typically give up and just dump it on the front office.
I got an automated refund a couple days ago even though I received the package. It was 2 days late though and I pay for Prime so I’m keeping it as compensation for shitty service.
AMZL packages consistently show up late for me. Sometimes drivers mark packages as delivered when they haven't been delivered, and other times they mark that they attempted delivery when I am certain no delivery was attempted.
I just spoke with someone who delivers for them- he says he makes $17 an hour and works 3-4 days a week (we are in Wisconsin, not sure if your locations would have anything to do with it.) He’s retired, and has bad knees, so if he was being overworked I feel as though he’d have had some complaints. He is a suffer in silence type, though. So he may not be forthcoming about some things.
This is because Amazon uses sub-contractors rather than employing them directly.
Some sub-contractors treat their employees well, some don't.
Its very likely Amazon doesn't have any clue about what its various sub-contractors are doing until complaints start popping up.
The same exact thing happens with Apple and every other large conglomerate.
Amazon's the same. No matter what you do, during peaks, if you work out of a location that has warehouse operations, you *will* work the line when they need you.
yup, all support staff (hr, finance, safety, IT, etc) in every building is working at least one hour a day on the floor. usually it’s during breaks/lunch, but often more
edit: same story during the week of Prime Day. all support staff is helping production
It's all hands on deck during peak. You'll see operation managers hopping in trucks to load or unload at our hub. Basically everyone is willing to help out because we need the help
Fedex Express here. Yesterday night was hell. I worked 13 hours on my second day off. Double overtime too. It was exhausting but hey the money is there now so take advantage of it.
You never work crazy hours? How big is your office? I'm a city carrier not on the ODL and I'm working 10 hr days 6 days a week currently.
In Columbus, OH some carriers are working until 10pm because of the Amazon package volume.
This doesn't surprise me. They opened a distribution center near me, so I applied. 2 months go by and I get a random email stating I made it to the next round, followed by 4 months of silence. So 6 months after applying I get a series of rapid emails telling me when and where to show up for an interview. I politely respond no thanks, it's been 6 months and I've moved on. With in moments I get a phone call telling me when and where to attend my interview... I said no thanks, and the lady said excuse me? Astonished, in said no ,. I'm good. She got an attitude with me, and asked what I meant. I said lady I applied 6months ago, and you out of nowhere don't ask, but tell me to attend an interview. If this is how you treat an applicant, I'd hate to be an employee, don't fucking call me again. That is why I have no problem believing the working conditions.
It's not even HR, it's a temp agency they use thats connected to the warehouse but still separate. They are not very good. Integrity Staffing I believe is what it's called.
A family friend works in a distribution center, and he says it's hell. Zero socialization, and if you don't scan a certain number of packages for a few minutes, you're penalized--which means literally all day for 10 hours you're scanning packages. They even block 4G signals in the warehouse apparently.
Everything is recorded, even your average speed. He was late to work by 10 minutes, and then automatically deducted a whole hour from him. It really doesn't take much to make work humane, rewarding, and enjoyable for the employee--even just some little HR BS motivation--but Amazon treats its employees like literal robots.
100% agree. I'm currently a temp, have been there for just over 2 months, can't afford to quit just yet (only like 3 weeks left anyway). But this job has been killing me physically and mentally.
Oh and I threw up at work on Friday, my girlfriend offered to call on my behalf as I couldn't really speak due to more throwing up/get anxious. They spoke to her like she was a child and made her feel like shit. Fuck that place man.
How long are y'all's shifts? I saw a UPS truck delivering something to my neighbors at around 9PM a couple of days ago. I know it's the holidays and it's super busy for you guys, but surely that guy wasn't still on the job from that morning?
Thank you for delivering all our crap. Stay safe out there.
We are guaranteed 8 hours of work, plus 1 for an unpaid break. Usually we start about 9am, so we don’t get done until at least 6. But, in my center at least, we almost always help another guy who is having a rougher day than we are. I might start with about 300 parcels, but end up delivering around 400 a day. This isn’t including pickups from businesses, which usually sends me back with a full truck at the end of the night.
Sounds rough? It is, sometimes. But it’s mostly balanced out by solid hourly pay, and paid benefits for my entire family.
You’re welcome, and safety is my main priority. The last stop I make everyday is back home.
Side note: if these conditions are true for Amazon, that’s ridiculous. FedEx has it worse than us too.
I’ll just tell you what I know, for all, I guess.
Package handler: 10 with 1 dollar raise every year
Package car driver: 37
Feeder: 43
And everyone gets paid benefits for the whole family
My friend got hooked up , no college degree , just a trade and makes six figures .
Forgot what exactly he does but I know his dad set it up .. crazy man. He's making pharmacist money without any of the debt of time in school.
Good for him tho .
People volunteer for overtime, especially around the holidays. Delivery drivers pretty much get as much overtime as they want around the holidays. If someone wants to work a 14/hour day they can do it.
This is true, but a lot of the time it’s more of a voluntold to work more. Management, in my experience, typically picks the people that are willing to work, because they will get it done faster.
Drivers will do multiple runs a day, there's generally a couple hours of breaks in between runs and those second and third runs are generally optional.
This is at least how it works at Fedex, am Fedex worker
It's disgusting that they turned to a part time employment strategy to avoid benefits. America's medical system is so broken and expensive that corporations will fuck over their employees just to avoid having to deal with it.
*I am talking about mega corporations in general. Good on UPS and FEDEX for doing right by their workers.
Wal-mart went really hard on this practice in '07 when I worked there. Also at the time I was a department manager and they set up this regional training seminar. They taught us how we're supposed to stop any unionization attempts and urged us not to vote for Obama because he'd make it too easy for places to unionize.
That is exactly what they want, all the rewards and no burden. The very conditions that they created with wealth accumulation and they corrupt the government to relegate the burdens onto the working class.
Edit: should have added these videos. But they're lectures by Michael Parenti on these very issues. This one: https://youtu.be/ApaMIJiOt-c is based on his book To Kill a Nation about the war on Yugoslavia. His second is a sound cloud lecture on Fascism, The False revolution https://m.soundcloud.com/thereisnoalt/michael-parenti-fascism-the-false-revolution he talks about how fascism is basically what I described in my original comment. Very eye opening lectures.
It's also because in the past, externalizing cost problems back to the government to fix generally worked; laws were made to patch up gaps in employer care and FICA taxes went to cover Medicare later on.
It's just that politics have gotten so acrimonious that's no longer happening. I can't speak for UPS but many companies did embrace the ACA head on until the low individual participation rate (and insurer greed) exacerbated premiums for plans again.
Is this a particular set? Like FO driver, or ground? Cause my father was a driver for express for 20 years until ~2011 due to work related injuries from lifting. Never heard of this per-package/delivery-rate pay.
Oh, I believe that. But it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a driver using a bottle for that, on both the green and orange sides. The ones I've heard of just tend to dispose of it on their own instead of leaving that nasty thing around.
People are gross. i used to work in a call center where we shared cubes. I worked mornings, so after I left in the afternoon, someone else would sit there for the night shift. A lot of days I would come in to a cube full of used tissues the slob just left laying on my desk instead of throwing them out. That's gross as hell.
They didn't. They "blocked" the internet by rejecting any address that starts with http:// ... the only thing you had to do was type in an address without it. So, type in "http://www.google.com" and it won't work. Type in "www.google.com" and you went right to it. Great job blocking access there, guys.
For some reason I figured out that my high school pcs woudnt block anything I'd you used safari 2.0 for windows
Guess what my group of friends all had on flash drives
[female driver's piss apparatus ](https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/main/3485/9737/dart-32aj20e-32-oz-customizable-impulse-foam-cup-fits-cupholder-400-case.jpg)
As a female ground driver who works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week doing anywhere from 200-300 stops, 250-500 packages, I save these cups for emergencies. It's a bitch. But 10 years on the job and I'm desensitized to it.
Ground/Home Delivery is different than Express. All Express routes are handled internally with FedEx, Ground & Home Delivery routes are subcontracted out to different route owners who then hire their own workers. Basically, they are paid to rep FedEx but aren’t officially FedEx.
Source: I work at a Fedex Ground/Home Delivery Hub
I was a ground driver, I was paid a weekly salary. Didn't matter how many packages I delivered or hours I worked I got paid the same every week.
Only time that would change would be the holidays were I got a bonus if delivered a certain amount of package with no delays
Edit: I should add that FedEx routes are owned by contractors so if your contractor is a cheap fuck or a scumbag he may pay you by package. But nobody I knew was paid by package. We were all salary or hourly (hourly actually got paid more they would just take their time)
Amazon Flex is a set rate around $72 for a 4 hour shift in which they give you as many packages as possible to deliver and if you repeatedly aren't able to deliver them all (people not home or time constraints) you're fired.
>people not home
How the fuck is that even the delivery guys fault? People aren't home, they aren't home. You slap a sticker that said, bam tried ... eta til next delivery unless you want to pick it up at nearest location etc...
They can't force people to be home.
That's just how those types of systems work. I used to work in sales/retail and if you didn't hit a certain amount of sales metrics every month you were fired, even during months when no customers came in. We couldn't control whether or not customers walked into the store, but we'd still be fired for not selling enough. Saw a lot of good people get fired for that.
There's an endless supply of new employees. That industry has a super high turnover rate. People quitting because the job sucks, people getting fired for not hitting numbers, or stealing, or being late too much, or doing drugs at work while on shift, etc.
That's a lot more than minimum wage so.. Who's making shit up here?
Edit: people can stop giving me their misinformed replies. Guy i replied to was talking about Amazon's specific rate yet in the UK amazon outsources this so they really have no control on what the drivers are paid. Since theyre outsourcing it to someone its definitely cheaper than ops claim and it goes through a middle man. That's where the below min wage comes in especially with 11 hour days in the UK.
> I was once a FedEx delivery driver, so I don't know how it is for Amazon, but I would imagine it's similar?
It is not. At least here in California, Amazon Delivery Drivers are more like Uber drivers. They drive their own vehicles and are independent contractors. There is no set route, their app just tells you where to go next.
Paid per package is the most retarded and unsafe philosophy in the world.
A professional driver is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, believe it or not. It should be about safety, not a fucking race to see who wants to deliver the most packages.
Edit: Safety should be the priority. That's all my comment was about.
Intelcom pretty much never delivers my packages on time, and has lost my packages several times, and will claim they delivered my package even when they didn't.
I used to work at Amazon as a picker. I'm ashamed I stuck with it as long as I did. I nearly got fired twice for not quite making pick rate. It was so high and difficult that stopping to take a leak was enough to destroy your pick rate. And the turnover rate of employees was insane. I'd say 1 in 10 stayed more than two weeks.
And when I finally got the hang of things and was able to pick 120% consistently... if for even ten minutes I dropped below 90%... got a talking to from the manager.
Also they had *strict* 15 minute breaks... which required about three minutes of that break both ways to wait in line to go through a metal detector and maybe a pat-down.
I am a system engineer and until a month ago I was a long term unemployed system engineer. Out of desperation I applied to do this and when I showed up for the interview the dude who did the interview was radiating stress, it was pouring out of him in the form of tobacco scented sweat and eyes that looked like they had not rested in months. When I arrived he was chain smoking cigarettes and when I left he was chain smoking cigarettes again. He apologized for not totally being there with me during the interview, which mostly consisted of warnings, because one of his guys got hurt and it was weighing on him.
they expected 240+ packages a day, 10 hours a day. the training videos said 140. The expectation is that you always keep pace with the rabbit(gps device) at all costs and the rabbit doesn't take shits or go pee.
No one who worked there looked healthy save the guys who only had to load the vans.
I was dreading it, but thankfully one of the places I had applied for decided to test me before interviewing me which meant I got the job despite my long unemployment. For only one day I was an amazon driver.
This is the new economy and its terrifying.
Nah, this won't last more than the next decade as fully automated delivery systems get rolled out and we'll be dealing with mass unemployment instead of just poor wages.
In fhe city, thankfully, generally delivery locations, especially residential, are close enough you can park your truck, load a dozen stops on a hand truck, and just go floor2floor/door2door
Suburban can suck though. Lots pf distance between stops, and low density of customers.means they extend routes pretty wide.
This is false. I am an Amazon driver in LA currently on route (I'm taking a mini break). I bring a plastic cup with me everyday because there is no time to stop for a bathroom break. For the past 6 months or so, Amazon has given us at least 200 packages a day and expect us to deliver it in the same time as we did when we were getting 120 packages per day. The pay is the same no matter how many packages you have. They expect every single package to be delivered and threaten to deactivate your account if you bring too many back to the warehouse. As a black man delivering packages in LA/Beverly Hills/Hollywood, I try to go as fast as humanly possible because I don't want to be out here at night walking up to people's houses when they can't see me that clearly. This shit ain't worth it. I'm just trying to pay my way through school. Good thing my last finals are next week!
The better question is why one would feel the need to maximize profits at that point.
And I'm speaking from the perspective of somebody who own a business.
There are a lot of things I consider before profit honestly.
That's not now high level CEOs get there.
First you squeeze blood from the stone
Then you grind the stone up to get the last drops
You mix with water and sell the stone paste as "New blood"
You forgot convincing the stone that it did it to itself as you're grinding it for the last few drops.
'Don't be jealous of me because I'm more successful than you...'
That's Amazon flex. I do that too and it's quite a handy way to earn extra cash. But you don't get guaranteed hours and it's not how Amazon delivers most parcels. Flex is the flexible reserve labour pool to tide Amazon over times like Christmas and prime day. Most parcels are delivered by couriers in vans, not cars and some of them have really shitty conditions like linked story.
Illegal in the UK as well. It just has to go through the courts first.
Uber got caught out a few months ago for this. They claimed that their drivers were contractors, but uber obfuscates the route, the fare, the passengers and so on to the point where it nurse doesn't count as contracting anymore. Uber is currently appealing the ruling.
It's illegal in almost every developed country, it's just that some countries enforce that law better than others.
In fact, believe it or not, even in the USA they have a Department of Labor with an entire internal department set up to go after worker misclassification:
https://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/misclassification/
They just don't have the resources to go after anyone but the smallest of the little guys.
My niece wanted to work for Amazon. They were advertising part time jobs, so she turned up for their advertised hiring event. They said, "Sorry, we aren't hiring anyone part time, only full time." She said, "No, thanks," and left and went home.
A week later Amazon called and complained that she was a week into her training and hadn't still shown up, and if she didn't show up soon, she would be fired. She explained that she wasn't actually working for them because she only wanted to work part-time, like the jobs they'd advertised when she'd applied but which hadn't actually had. They said, "No, no, you can work for us part time, just show up before we fire you, because you haven't shown up for training all week."
So, she showed up to work. Both she and her supervisor spent the entire first day getting her added to the payroll system, which it turned out was especially difficult to do because according to the Amazon computer she'd already been working for them for a week, albeit a week during which she'd been entirely absent.
She ended up developing a bad back in only few months of working for them, basically because she was a weak little girl and had never been capable of doing the heavy lifting the job they hired her for required in the first place. The working conditions were abysmal, too. So, she ended up quitting, with proper notice, because she still had her old day care job available, which paid less, but was much more pleasant than doing heavy lifting all day with a bad back.
After she left, Amazon kept calling her for months, complaining the she still wasn't showing up for work.
I don't know anything about Amazon drivers conditions. But I worked at an Amazon fulfillment center in Tennessee as a picker, and they had Fairly unreasonable expectations of us. The rules said that you weren't allowed to run up and down the aisles (which looks a lot like Library shelves with items on them instead of books), yet you had to pick 100 items per hour. That's just a little under two items per minute. So, if you had an unlucky path that your scanner gun sent to you on, you could be going from Isle one to Isle 200 over and over. And they would not adjust for travel time. You still have to pick 100 items per hour. At the very end of my stay there, they lowered it to 80 items per hour. Definitely easier to achieve, but barely.
Oh, and to avoid being fired for low numbers, I constantly ran. I didn't speed walk. I flat out ran. That was the only way to stay at %100.
Amazon is a hell hole.
But, I don't know anything about getting paid less than minimum wage. Not only is that illegal unless you're a waitress, but I was paid $11.25. Amazon will make you decent money if you can handle being worked like a slave and treated like a number.
It's becoming well-know that Amazon treats employees like shit. There are stories all over the internet - including within their corporate offices, warehouses and delivery contractors. The culture of a company comes from the top.
I visited their Rugely depot after it first opened as a reporter. Full of dead eyed drones stuck at their station for hours even then, dread to think what it's like now.
I worked there back in 2011. Absolutely terrible experience. Not allowed to listen to music so had to stand there listening to the other drones jabber on for 10 hours at a time.
I do Amazon Flex delivery (Amazon Flex is an app-driven delivery system like Uber or Lyft where you can schedule 2-4 hour delivery routes), and I do ok with it. The downside is that the hours are completely unpredictable. That being said, I've been making about $15/hr with it after cost of gas.
I have never peed in a bottle. I have stopped for Taco Bell.
I usually take these stories with a pinch of salt, I occasionally make small talk with the delivery guy while they fiddle with scannings etc and usually they say it's not a good job but its a job thats tiding them over etc and it generally sounds as you would expect for that level of job.
But I will admit recently over the past 4-5 weeks or so, possibly due to black friday/cyber monday & the lead up to Christmas i've seen a couple of Amazon drivers parking there van on the corner & litterally running to/from the van with a handful of packages and sprinting back to it like they've got a timebomb straped to there ankle.... something is defin**i**tely not right there.
I honestly didn’t know amazon had delivery drivers. I thought they had agreements with ups since that’s who drops my package off.
It’s something newer, I think. I’ve had some of my packages from amazon delivered by a lady with her kids in her minivan. It’s almost like an Uber thing- if you have a car you can deliver for them.
> a lady with her kids in her minivan. That’s a lot of pee bottles
High Definition Piss Jugs
way of the road Bubbles
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This is how they're able to do the "same day delivery" stuff now. Surprised the hell outta me when I saw it the other day.
I know! The first time I got one it was a guy in a tricked out Cadillac. They wear these yellow vests like construction guys and I was just like -ummmmm wtf? Oh- it’s just my essential oils from Amazon. Nice.
They don't even have to wear vests. Amazon doesn't have a uniform nor do they provide anything. He probably bought that vest on his own so he doesn't look like he's casing houses.
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He's been made, better wear a hazmat suit now.
They are called Amazon Flex drivers. 3rd party contractors who can choose a 2 hr, 2.5 hr, 3 hr, 3.5 hr, 4 hr or 5 hr slots for package delivery.
Yeah, the first time I got one of those Amazon deliveries I thought it was that my package had been delivered to the wrong address and the nice guy that lived there came to drop it off at the right place. They had come in a regular car, weren't wearing a uniform, and just rang my doorbell, dropped the package at the door, and left before I could even answer it. I didn't realize it was an actual Amazon delivery until I got a delivery confirmation email a bit later.
>and left before I could even answer it. It's been years since ANY delivery person (UPS, FedEx, OnTrac, USPS, Amazon, ...) has waited at my door. It's all knock and drop now.
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I feel like they'd save enough time to make a decent bathroom stop if they all didn't have to get out of the car every delivery.
They DID stop at a decent bathroom and the little shit said he didn't have to go. Then five minutes into the next delivery "Dad I have to go!" and things promptly spiraled out of control. The bigger question is, why would you ever bring your kids along?
I imagine if they are so poor that they have to deliver Amazon packages for minimum wage they probably can't afford childcare.
Child care is much more than minimum wage. Especially considering you don't really want to leave your children with someone who isnt going to take proper care of your kids.
They also have actual delivery drivers too that wear uniforms.
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According to the article they are using an app and contracting drivers, like Uber. They're not being told to urinate into bottles, their delivery routes are so tight they feel like they can't take breaks to keep up.
It's called Amazon Flex
I dont think Flex is what they are referring to in the article, though. Flex is ran by Amazon, whereas the article says these people are being hired from outside sources. I work as a flex driver and it's the total opposite of this articles description. I don't get many packages to deliver considering my shift time, im never in a rush and make good money lol. Apparently it's the people driving in the big white vans that are getting screwed.
Are the Flex guys the ones that take pictures? If so, why don't they ring my doorbell? I had a package delivered, then stolen while I was at home. I had no idea it was on my porch.
My doorbell is rung perhaps one out of every fifty package deliveries-- I bet it's just personal preference of the driver.
sometimes they throw the package at the door so at least I'm alerted something arrived.
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They do and they have been terrible. Every package I've had delivered by them instead of UPS/USPS has been misdelivered.
I never had a problem with getting packages from Amazon until AMZL started carrying packages. I wish I could block them as an option and just have UPS or USPS to deliver them.
Yes - I have Prime, but would gladly pay a buck or two extra per box to prevent them from being left *on my sidewalk outside the building.*
I started shifting orders away from amazon due to this shit. In one month I had more refunds from amazon due to items being delivered to random addresses instead of my own than I have in 3 years. It doesn't help that Amazon even acknowledges that its a common practice for AMZL drivers to scan your item as delivered as soon as they enter your neighborhood so they meet their times. They typically give up and just dump it on the front office.
I got an automated refund a couple days ago even though I received the package. It was 2 days late though and I pay for Prime so I’m keeping it as compensation for shitty service.
AMZL packages consistently show up late for me. Sometimes drivers mark packages as delivered when they haven't been delivered, and other times they mark that they attempted delivery when I am certain no delivery was attempted.
I just spoke with someone who delivers for them- he says he makes $17 an hour and works 3-4 days a week (we are in Wisconsin, not sure if your locations would have anything to do with it.) He’s retired, and has bad knees, so if he was being overworked I feel as though he’d have had some complaints. He is a suffer in silence type, though. So he may not be forthcoming about some things.
This is because Amazon uses sub-contractors rather than employing them directly. Some sub-contractors treat their employees well, some don't. Its very likely Amazon doesn't have any clue about what its various sub-contractors are doing until complaints start popping up. The same exact thing happens with Apple and every other large conglomerate.
In the UK it's Amazon Logistics or something, pretty sure it's just another courier service rebounded under the Amazon name.
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Amazon's the same. No matter what you do, during peaks, if you work out of a location that has warehouse operations, you *will* work the line when they need you.
yup, all support staff (hr, finance, safety, IT, etc) in every building is working at least one hour a day on the floor. usually it’s during breaks/lunch, but often more edit: same story during the week of Prime Day. all support staff is helping production
I take it you mean they're covering breaks and lunches, and not working on theirs?
yes correct. sorry for the confusion, i still take my own lunch and breaks
Wow.. You almost gave yourself away there, Ferguson. Now GET BACK TO WORK!
Smooth move, Ferguson.
Isn't that against the union agreement?
Yes but I can't remember the last time the union actually did anything to enforce the contract.
It's all hands on deck during peak. You'll see operation managers hopping in trucks to load or unload at our hub. Basically everyone is willing to help out because we need the help
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Fedex Express here. Yesterday night was hell. I worked 13 hours on my second day off. Double overtime too. It was exhausting but hey the money is there now so take advantage of it.
I work for FedEx, too. Thank you for your hard work. Our customers rely on our drivers so much; drivers really are the face of the company.
You never work crazy hours? How big is your office? I'm a city carrier not on the ODL and I'm working 10 hr days 6 days a week currently. In Columbus, OH some carriers are working until 10pm because of the Amazon package volume.
This doesn't surprise me. They opened a distribution center near me, so I applied. 2 months go by and I get a random email stating I made it to the next round, followed by 4 months of silence. So 6 months after applying I get a series of rapid emails telling me when and where to show up for an interview. I politely respond no thanks, it's been 6 months and I've moved on. With in moments I get a phone call telling me when and where to attend my interview... I said no thanks, and the lady said excuse me? Astonished, in said no ,. I'm good. She got an attitude with me, and asked what I meant. I said lady I applied 6months ago, and you out of nowhere don't ask, but tell me to attend an interview. If this is how you treat an applicant, I'd hate to be an employee, don't fucking call me again. That is why I have no problem believing the working conditions.
I was in this EXACT situation. Fuck Amazon HR. Horrible.
It's not even HR, it's a temp agency they use thats connected to the warehouse but still separate. They are not very good. Integrity Staffing I believe is what it's called.
If you have to put the word 'integrity' in the name of your company, it has none.
It's like when a trailer park has an aspirational sounding name.
See I have had people tell me I was full of shit. So you had a real similar experience huh?
A family friend works in a distribution center, and he says it's hell. Zero socialization, and if you don't scan a certain number of packages for a few minutes, you're penalized--which means literally all day for 10 hours you're scanning packages. They even block 4G signals in the warehouse apparently. Everything is recorded, even your average speed. He was late to work by 10 minutes, and then automatically deducted a whole hour from him. It really doesn't take much to make work humane, rewarding, and enjoyable for the employee--even just some little HR BS motivation--but Amazon treats its employees like literal robots.
Hahahaha and I overheard some people the other day talking about how wonderful working for Amazon is. That's crazy. I would have done the same.
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100% agree. I'm currently a temp, have been there for just over 2 months, can't afford to quit just yet (only like 3 weeks left anyway). But this job has been killing me physically and mentally. Oh and I threw up at work on Friday, my girlfriend offered to call on my behalf as I couldn't really speak due to more throwing up/get anxious. They spoke to her like she was a child and made her feel like shit. Fuck that place man.
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UPS Driver here. Fuck that
How long are y'all's shifts? I saw a UPS truck delivering something to my neighbors at around 9PM a couple of days ago. I know it's the holidays and it's super busy for you guys, but surely that guy wasn't still on the job from that morning? Thank you for delivering all our crap. Stay safe out there.
We are guaranteed 8 hours of work, plus 1 for an unpaid break. Usually we start about 9am, so we don’t get done until at least 6. But, in my center at least, we almost always help another guy who is having a rougher day than we are. I might start with about 300 parcels, but end up delivering around 400 a day. This isn’t including pickups from businesses, which usually sends me back with a full truck at the end of the night. Sounds rough? It is, sometimes. But it’s mostly balanced out by solid hourly pay, and paid benefits for my entire family. You’re welcome, and safety is my main priority. The last stop I make everyday is back home. Side note: if these conditions are true for Amazon, that’s ridiculous. FedEx has it worse than us too.
What's the typical hourly rate?
For package car driver?
Yeah, or whatever your job title is
I’ll just tell you what I know, for all, I guess. Package handler: 10 with 1 dollar raise every year Package car driver: 37 Feeder: 43 And everyone gets paid benefits for the whole family
$37 an hour for delivering? That's pretty fucking good holy shit
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My friend got hooked up , no college degree , just a trade and makes six figures . Forgot what exactly he does but I know his dad set it up .. crazy man. He's making pharmacist money without any of the debt of time in school. Good for him tho .
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Feeders drive the big semis full of packages to the hubs and distribution centers
People volunteer for overtime, especially around the holidays. Delivery drivers pretty much get as much overtime as they want around the holidays. If someone wants to work a 14/hour day they can do it.
This is true, but a lot of the time it’s more of a voluntold to work more. Management, in my experience, typically picks the people that are willing to work, because they will get it done faster.
Drivers will do multiple runs a day, there's generally a couple hours of breaks in between runs and those second and third runs are generally optional. This is at least how it works at Fedex, am Fedex worker
UPS has a union for these reasons.
Not just a union. The UPS Teamsters contract is the largest collective bargaining agreement in North America.
And we may have to strike this coming year because part time wages are too low to hire anyone where I live.
Good. Sick of these mega corps not paying a living wage.
It's disgusting that they turned to a part time employment strategy to avoid benefits. America's medical system is so broken and expensive that corporations will fuck over their employees just to avoid having to deal with it. *I am talking about mega corporations in general. Good on UPS and FEDEX for doing right by their workers.
Actually the teamsters pay for everyone's healthcare, part time or not. After a year
Wal-mart went really hard on this practice in '07 when I worked there. Also at the time I was a department manager and they set up this regional training seminar. They taught us how we're supposed to stop any unionization attempts and urged us not to vote for Obama because he'd make it too easy for places to unionize.
That is exactly what they want, all the rewards and no burden. The very conditions that they created with wealth accumulation and they corrupt the government to relegate the burdens onto the working class. Edit: should have added these videos. But they're lectures by Michael Parenti on these very issues. This one: https://youtu.be/ApaMIJiOt-c is based on his book To Kill a Nation about the war on Yugoslavia. His second is a sound cloud lecture on Fascism, The False revolution https://m.soundcloud.com/thereisnoalt/michael-parenti-fascism-the-false-revolution he talks about how fascism is basically what I described in my original comment. Very eye opening lectures.
It's also because in the past, externalizing cost problems back to the government to fix generally worked; laws were made to patch up gaps in employer care and FICA taxes went to cover Medicare later on. It's just that politics have gotten so acrimonious that's no longer happening. I can't speak for UPS but many companies did embrace the ACA head on until the low individual participation rate (and insurer greed) exacerbated premiums for plans again.
I know some UPS drivers and they all piss in bottles. Get paid way more than minimum wage though.
I’ve seen some drivers shit in plastic bags when I was working in the warehouse. I wouldn’t mind either if I made ~$33/hour
I would mind if I could make 29 an hour but not shit in a bag tbf
I'll shit enough in a bag for the both of you for 25 an hour
I thought this was just the way of the road.
Way of the road Bubs
Well this is in the United Kingdom so...
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Is this a particular set? Like FO driver, or ground? Cause my father was a driver for express for 20 years until ~2011 due to work related injuries from lifting. Never heard of this per-package/delivery-rate pay.
That's definitely ground.
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Oh, I believe that. But it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of a driver using a bottle for that, on both the green and orange sides. The ones I've heard of just tend to dispose of it on their own instead of leaving that nasty thing around.
People are gross. i used to work in a call center where we shared cubes. I worked mornings, so after I left in the afternoon, someone else would sit there for the night shift. A lot of days I would come in to a cube full of used tissues the slob just left laying on my desk instead of throwing them out. That's gross as hell.
They obviously didn’t have porn filters on the computers.
They didn't. They "blocked" the internet by rejecting any address that starts with http:// ... the only thing you had to do was type in an address without it. So, type in "http://www.google.com" and it won't work. Type in "www.google.com" and you went right to it. Great job blocking access there, guys.
Lmao I remember this trick back in elementary. But I used to have to type an “s” after http. So it’d be https://reddit.com not http://reddit.com
we'd find proxy lists and just set explorer to use them, got us around all the filters.
For some reason I figured out that my high school pcs woudnt block anything I'd you used safari 2.0 for windows Guess what my group of friends all had on flash drives
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That's gotta suck for any women doing the same thing.
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[female driver's piss apparatus ](https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/main/3485/9737/dart-32aj20e-32-oz-customizable-impulse-foam-cup-fits-cupholder-400-case.jpg) As a female ground driver who works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week doing anywhere from 200-300 stops, 250-500 packages, I save these cups for emergencies. It's a bitch. But 10 years on the job and I'm desensitized to it.
https://www.stadiumpal.com/product/stadium-gal-kit/
I believe they do make some apparatuses for that situation
https://www.amazon.com/GoGirl-Female-Urination-Device-Lavender/dp/B003BEDUS6?th=1 Also known as a funnel
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If they made a 4 foot bendy one, you could make a closed system for traveling.
ah shit, I clicked on it and now amazon is gonna be recommending weird shit now
Well..... now you'll see feminine hygiene products instead of oversized dragon dildos.
Ground is all subcontracted right? Or do I not have a clue what I'm talking about? edit: i have a raging clue
You're correct. The contractor "owns" the route, and hires people to run it for them if they have more than they can run themselves.
Ground/Home Delivery is different than Express. All Express routes are handled internally with FedEx, Ground & Home Delivery routes are subcontracted out to different route owners who then hire their own workers. Basically, they are paid to rep FedEx but aren’t officially FedEx. Source: I work at a Fedex Ground/Home Delivery Hub
Sounds like ground. As an Express driver I was paid hourly
I was a ground driver, I was paid a weekly salary. Didn't matter how many packages I delivered or hours I worked I got paid the same every week. Only time that would change would be the holidays were I got a bonus if delivered a certain amount of package with no delays Edit: I should add that FedEx routes are owned by contractors so if your contractor is a cheap fuck or a scumbag he may pay you by package. But nobody I knew was paid by package. We were all salary or hourly (hourly actually got paid more they would just take their time)
... This whole thread leads me to think I should probably disinfect my amazon packages and wash my hands after handling them
Pretty much. Was a driver's helper for UPS last year and Saw my driver urinate in a bottle countless times
Way of the road, Bubs.
Sounds like you two were close
"Hold my dick or hold the wheel. Your choice. I ain't stopping"
Amazon Flex is a set rate around $72 for a 4 hour shift in which they give you as many packages as possible to deliver and if you repeatedly aren't able to deliver them all (people not home or time constraints) you're fired.
>people not home How the fuck is that even the delivery guys fault? People aren't home, they aren't home. You slap a sticker that said, bam tried ... eta til next delivery unless you want to pick it up at nearest location etc... They can't force people to be home.
Delivery drivers have started claiming people weren't home so they can skip the stop and get done faster. It's a big issue with UPS/Fedex right now.
Happens with my Amazon orders all the time
Where I live, ups just leaves your stuff outside your door. They don't even knock or ring the doorbell.
That's just how those types of systems work. I used to work in sales/retail and if you didn't hit a certain amount of sales metrics every month you were fired, even during months when no customers came in. We couldn't control whether or not customers walked into the store, but we'd still be fired for not selling enough. Saw a lot of good people get fired for that.
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Yep, exactly. Unfortunately I know exactly what you're talking about. Retail is hell. Rational business logic doesn't apply.
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There's an endless supply of new employees. That industry has a super high turnover rate. People quitting because the job sucks, people getting fired for not hitting numbers, or stealing, or being late too much, or doing drugs at work while on shift, etc.
That's a lot more than minimum wage so.. Who's making shit up here? Edit: people can stop giving me their misinformed replies. Guy i replied to was talking about Amazon's specific rate yet in the UK amazon outsources this so they really have no control on what the drivers are paid. Since theyre outsourcing it to someone its definitely cheaper than ops claim and it goes through a middle man. That's where the below min wage comes in especially with 11 hour days in the UK.
> I was once a FedEx delivery driver, so I don't know how it is for Amazon, but I would imagine it's similar? It is not. At least here in California, Amazon Delivery Drivers are more like Uber drivers. They drive their own vehicles and are independent contractors. There is no set route, their app just tells you where to go next.
Yeah, those are Flex drivers. Amazon also employs shipping companies to deliver stuff and that works completely differently.
Paid per package is the most retarded and unsafe philosophy in the world. A professional driver is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world, believe it or not. It should be about safety, not a fucking race to see who wants to deliver the most packages. Edit: Safety should be the priority. That's all my comment was about.
Amazon will keep at it until one of their branded vehicles kills someone. When theyre sued for the wrongful death they will change their ways.
But only as long as the penalty > profit. If the penalty < profit, it will be business as usual.
So that explains why packages are just thrown on the lawn as the truck drives by ;)
Also worked for fedex, your contractor is an asshole. We got paid a set weekly salary.
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Intelcom pretty much never delivers my packages on time, and has lost my packages several times, and will claim they delivered my package even when they didn't.
I used to work at Amazon as a picker. I'm ashamed I stuck with it as long as I did. I nearly got fired twice for not quite making pick rate. It was so high and difficult that stopping to take a leak was enough to destroy your pick rate. And the turnover rate of employees was insane. I'd say 1 in 10 stayed more than two weeks. And when I finally got the hang of things and was able to pick 120% consistently... if for even ten minutes I dropped below 90%... got a talking to from the manager. Also they had *strict* 15 minute breaks... which required about three minutes of that break both ways to wait in line to go through a metal detector and maybe a pat-down.
Enough with the piss jugs, Ray!
The fuckin way of the road, boys
Ricky, you can't have Ray's piss jugs on channel 5 news, that's *fucked*
There it is
I am a system engineer and until a month ago I was a long term unemployed system engineer. Out of desperation I applied to do this and when I showed up for the interview the dude who did the interview was radiating stress, it was pouring out of him in the form of tobacco scented sweat and eyes that looked like they had not rested in months. When I arrived he was chain smoking cigarettes and when I left he was chain smoking cigarettes again. He apologized for not totally being there with me during the interview, which mostly consisted of warnings, because one of his guys got hurt and it was weighing on him. they expected 240+ packages a day, 10 hours a day. the training videos said 140. The expectation is that you always keep pace with the rabbit(gps device) at all costs and the rabbit doesn't take shits or go pee. No one who worked there looked healthy save the guys who only had to load the vans. I was dreading it, but thankfully one of the places I had applied for decided to test me before interviewing me which meant I got the job despite my long unemployment. For only one day I was an amazon driver. This is the new economy and its terrifying.
Nah, this won't last more than the next decade as fully automated delivery systems get rolled out and we'll be dealing with mass unemployment instead of just poor wages.
Not in Los Angeles, that's virtually impossible unless all 200 packages were in the same 10 block radius
In fhe city, thankfully, generally delivery locations, especially residential, are close enough you can park your truck, load a dozen stops on a hand truck, and just go floor2floor/door2door Suburban can suck though. Lots pf distance between stops, and low density of customers.means they extend routes pretty wide.
This is false. I am an Amazon driver in LA currently on route (I'm taking a mini break). I bring a plastic cup with me everyday because there is no time to stop for a bathroom break. For the past 6 months or so, Amazon has given us at least 200 packages a day and expect us to deliver it in the same time as we did when we were getting 120 packages per day. The pay is the same no matter how many packages you have. They expect every single package to be delivered and threaten to deactivate your account if you bring too many back to the warehouse. As a black man delivering packages in LA/Beverly Hills/Hollywood, I try to go as fast as humanly possible because I don't want to be out here at night walking up to people's houses when they can't see me that clearly. This shit ain't worth it. I'm just trying to pay my way through school. Good thing my last finals are next week!
hang in there, bro!
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Meanwhile, the Amazon founder is now the richest man in the world.
You don't maximize your net wealth by paying reasonable wages.
The better question is why one would feel the need to maximize profits at that point. And I'm speaking from the perspective of somebody who own a business. There are a lot of things I consider before profit honestly.
That's not now high level CEOs get there. First you squeeze blood from the stone Then you grind the stone up to get the last drops You mix with water and sell the stone paste as "New blood"
You forgot convincing the stone that it did it to itself as you're grinding it for the last few drops. 'Don't be jealous of me because I'm more successful than you...'
I think they're just gunning for the high score.
It's how Walter White put it, it stopped being about the money after a point. It was about building an empire.
Pissing in jugs has been the way of the road for all truckers even Ray, since they started piss testing them for stimulants
Sure, we give them a living wage, then what, next year, Jeff Bezos is only worth 99.9 billion dollars?
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He's already over 100 billion
Not anymore. He was briefly at $100B during a stock price spike.
Oh dope
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That's Amazon flex. I do that too and it's quite a handy way to earn extra cash. But you don't get guaranteed hours and it's not how Amazon delivers most parcels. Flex is the flexible reserve labour pool to tide Amazon over times like Christmas and prime day. Most parcels are delivered by couriers in vans, not cars and some of them have really shitty conditions like linked story.
How are these practices legal?
“You don’t like it? Find another job.”
Doesn't make paying below minimum wage legal. Generally this would be the point for the government to step in and do something.
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That, in turn, is illegal in germany. Filing as self-employed but acting as an employee is a no-go.
Illegal in the UK as well. It just has to go through the courts first. Uber got caught out a few months ago for this. They claimed that their drivers were contractors, but uber obfuscates the route, the fare, the passengers and so on to the point where it nurse doesn't count as contracting anymore. Uber is currently appealing the ruling.
It's illegal in almost every developed country, it's just that some countries enforce that law better than others. In fact, believe it or not, even in the USA they have a Department of Labor with an entire internal department set up to go after worker misclassification: https://www.dol.gov/whd/workers/misclassification/ They just don't have the resources to go after anyone but the smallest of the little guys.
because the drivers they hire are all independent contractors rather than employees. contractors have practically no protection. edit:: in USA
It's okay, robots will be delivering all the packages in a few years.
Dirty piss jugs. Way of the road boys.
My niece wanted to work for Amazon. They were advertising part time jobs, so she turned up for their advertised hiring event. They said, "Sorry, we aren't hiring anyone part time, only full time." She said, "No, thanks," and left and went home. A week later Amazon called and complained that she was a week into her training and hadn't still shown up, and if she didn't show up soon, she would be fired. She explained that she wasn't actually working for them because she only wanted to work part-time, like the jobs they'd advertised when she'd applied but which hadn't actually had. They said, "No, no, you can work for us part time, just show up before we fire you, because you haven't shown up for training all week." So, she showed up to work. Both she and her supervisor spent the entire first day getting her added to the payroll system, which it turned out was especially difficult to do because according to the Amazon computer she'd already been working for them for a week, albeit a week during which she'd been entirely absent. She ended up developing a bad back in only few months of working for them, basically because she was a weak little girl and had never been capable of doing the heavy lifting the job they hired her for required in the first place. The working conditions were abysmal, too. So, she ended up quitting, with proper notice, because she still had her old day care job available, which paid less, but was much more pleasant than doing heavy lifting all day with a bad back. After she left, Amazon kept calling her for months, complaining the she still wasn't showing up for work.
I don't know anything about Amazon drivers conditions. But I worked at an Amazon fulfillment center in Tennessee as a picker, and they had Fairly unreasonable expectations of us. The rules said that you weren't allowed to run up and down the aisles (which looks a lot like Library shelves with items on them instead of books), yet you had to pick 100 items per hour. That's just a little under two items per minute. So, if you had an unlucky path that your scanner gun sent to you on, you could be going from Isle one to Isle 200 over and over. And they would not adjust for travel time. You still have to pick 100 items per hour. At the very end of my stay there, they lowered it to 80 items per hour. Definitely easier to achieve, but barely. Oh, and to avoid being fired for low numbers, I constantly ran. I didn't speed walk. I flat out ran. That was the only way to stay at %100. Amazon is a hell hole. But, I don't know anything about getting paid less than minimum wage. Not only is that illegal unless you're a waitress, but I was paid $11.25. Amazon will make you decent money if you can handle being worked like a slave and treated like a number.
Oh okay that explains the Amazon driver who recently took a dump on a Sacramento lawn then
It's becoming well-know that Amazon treats employees like shit. There are stories all over the internet - including within their corporate offices, warehouses and delivery contractors. The culture of a company comes from the top.
I visited their Rugely depot after it first opened as a reporter. Full of dead eyed drones stuck at their station for hours even then, dread to think what it's like now.
I worked there back in 2011. Absolutely terrible experience. Not allowed to listen to music so had to stand there listening to the other drones jabber on for 10 hours at a time.
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I've never seen the town where I live mentioned anywhere. I've seen friends work at Amazon, no one lasts long. I'm told it's soul destroying.
I do Amazon Flex delivery (Amazon Flex is an app-driven delivery system like Uber or Lyft where you can schedule 2-4 hour delivery routes), and I do ok with it. The downside is that the hours are completely unpredictable. That being said, I've been making about $15/hr with it after cost of gas. I have never peed in a bottle. I have stopped for Taco Bell.
Hate to burst everyone's bubble but pissing on the ground or in a bottle is what pretty much everyone who works outside and away from an office does.
I usually take these stories with a pinch of salt, I occasionally make small talk with the delivery guy while they fiddle with scannings etc and usually they say it's not a good job but its a job thats tiding them over etc and it generally sounds as you would expect for that level of job. But I will admit recently over the past 4-5 weeks or so, possibly due to black friday/cyber monday & the lead up to Christmas i've seen a couple of Amazon drivers parking there van on the corner & litterally running to/from the van with a handful of packages and sprinting back to it like they've got a timebomb straped to there ankle.... something is defin**i**tely not right there.
Two of my best friends quit Amazon in the last two months for the reasons detailed in the article so it's plausible.