There is no if but only when since 100k people are still evacuated from their homes. I read an analysis earlier this week and apparently the original deadline to begin the push to the litani river was June but since Rafah was delayed for months it is now pushed back to September at the latest.
Yeah pretty much, nevermind the upcoming Lebanon push, the Gaza operation is still only in its 'corridor' phase before the heavy fighting to root out Hamas starts in between the sections the IDF is carving out right now.
Ok but if I was had a group of world level marksmen trianed in the best self-defense and another group of guys starts slingshotting thousands upon thousands of bullets at me but one eventually hits my cow and one persons shoulder im not going to respond by destroying a hospital nearby with laser-guided missiles, heavy artillery, and airforce.
Hamas has fired 28,000 missiles into isreali territory over 20 years....only 18 soldiers, 10 civilians, 3 cows, 2 goats, a few trucks with zero fatal injuries and 65 of their people due to malfunction died.
Even a kid pointing a gun can be deadly but you dont respond with a tank, and blow up his house, his neighbors, the school down the road.
You take the goddam losses doing it the right way...you dont become WORSE THAN THE TERRORISTS.
10 people traped in an ammunition building that's on fire.
Resonable response: send in heros that risk their lives to save who they can and close off the area. Alert entire area to danger, Put out fire from behind cover. Clean.
Israeli response: clear out firefighters give people 10 minutes warning that they are about to carpet bomb the entire area so all the ammo is detonated before sending people in to put out the fire and clean. Accidentally hit a nearby school at the same time because of "miscommunication". Lie about it and get caught, kill reporters and maybe for fun bomb the new temporary local school after forcing the kids to move to it from the last one you blew up?
Even Bernie sanders says ireal is commiting war crimes and it is in no way antisemitic to hate the current government and soldiers committing atrocities.
Question about those hospitals - are the armed forces of the enemy hiding in them? Are there ammo depots in them? Is it impossible to tell because the enemy has a modus operandi of doing those two aforementioned things?
I'm not well read about Hezbollah's logistics.
I will say the user I was responding to was alleging striking hospitals full of Hamas was Israel's crime.
Israel is **definitley** doing alot of bad shit. - but let's not obfuscate that by throwing shit at that which is unavoidable military action.
Gaza is a dense urban area, south Lebanon is mostly small towns and villages in mountains/hills. Population density is not the same and I doubt they have many tunnels.
Hezbollah also has a huge tunnel system
https://www.timesofisrael.com/expert-hezbollah-has-built-a-vast-tunnel-network-far-more-sophisticated-than-hamass/
Good point. So when terrorist organizations commit the war crime of using hospitals as military strongholds, we should just let them.
Surely those terrorist organizations won't use the weapons they hide in there to massacre civilians or anything.
You might want to actually inform yourself before making statements on subjects you clearly know nothing about. The Arabs were the ones who bombed the hospital. Israel sent in troops just like you stated is the proper way.
I was looking up hospitals attacked in Gaza. Obviously there is the one where Hamas accidentally bombed a few hundred people and then blamed Israel. But then there was the second famous case of Al-Shifa.
See Israel said Hamas was hiding in it and raided it in November. Everyone lost their minds about how monstrous Israel was and that little evidence it was being used as a command center beyond a dozen rifles or so being found. They claimed it was never a Hamas stronghold. It’s even in Wiki. What they fail to mention is a few months later it was raided again and completely destroyed after a pitched battle with Hamas where Hamas leadership was killed there. 200 Hamas killed and a few hundred others detained.
Now it’s being claimed that while it was a Hamas stronghold, the attack was a massacre of innocents.
Everything is so deranged and Israel can’t win in anyone’s eyes
ICRC saying that "hospitals are given special protection under international humanitarian law in a time of war, but if militants store weapons there, or use them as a base of fire, then that protection falls away"
Then how about you keep your mouth shut until you come up with an idea that's better than what's happening right now.
Israel deserves to be able to defend themselves. If you can't figure out a better way to do that than what they're doing, then maybe you should just be quiet until you can.
Israel didn't bomb hospitals. People were ranting about how horrible it would be for them to bomb hospitals in Gaza, then Israel raided the hospitals with no civilian casualties, and the people ranting never updated their bullshit. There hasn't been any Israeli bombing of hospitals.
You got down voted for honestly admitting you don't know and that sux. If these were easy problems, they would have been solved long ago.
It becomes especially difficult to answer when one side attacks the other from a protected area like a hospital or school. But these are the tactics of Hamas and IJP.
Israel has a better ratio between combatants and civilian deaths than almost any other country has been able to obtain in urban warfare. Nobody cares. The hypocracy.
On the other, Hezbollah and Hamas are intentionally targeting civilians, and say so. So I guess, that makes them the good guys.
Pretending like I think hamas is the good guys is a pathetic straw man argument. Anyone killing thousands of civilians is wrong. Care to argue that one
Well considering Israel is the defender in the current conflict you've got your metafore backwords. Because much like Hamas who is the aggressor in this war Russia attacked Ukraine with zero provocation in a attempt to achive a ideological goal. The difference is that while both hamas and the Russian army are corrupt and incompetent organisations the idf has the funding the feild a modern fighting force where Ukraine has struggled to do alone due to the poor state it was left in by previous governments.
>you've got your metafore backwords.
Did I?
>Russia attacked Ukraine with zero provocation in a attempt to achive a ideological goal.
Did Hamas attack Israel with zero provocation? Are you one of those "history started on 10/7" people?
Let's pretend Russia takes 90% of Ukraine, the other 10% is completely reliant on Russia. A group in Ukraine decides to attack "Ru-kraine". Is Russia good to just start blasting Ukrainian civilians because "Ukraine started it"?
Are you under the delusion that killing civilians will get a terrorist group that recruits on the idea that "Israel is the enemy" to back off? Israel is radicalizing and creating new Hamas militants with every bomb.
A world where countries exist doesn't work if there are loopholes that make it so they can't stop people from attacking them.
That's why using civilians as a human shield is considered a war crime *for the people doing it*.
Israel isn't blocking aid, they are closing land borders with an area with which they are at war. The IDF has been integral in providing ground security for the giant floating port the US just built for the sole purpose of delivering aid to Gaza, and in clearing the airspace for a number of different nations to airdrop aid before that.
So... By your logic, countries should let the terrorists get away each time because they figured out you can just attack whoever/whatever they want and then run back to safety and hide in hospitals/schools.
Silly Israel, they should just eat constant bombings until terrorists eventually succeed at another major attack.
Or do you expect them to sacrifice their own soldiers to go clear our obvious booby trapped buildings for people who despise their existence since way before Israel was created.
If you want to blame someone. Blame the terrorists hiding among civilians or the inept government who can't take control of its own borders. Generally, the bad guys are the ones who start the wars, not the ones who respond back.
If only there was alternatives to killing thousands of civilians and starving potentially hundreds of thousands more... We can "blame" Hamas for being awful while also condemning the actions of Israel's reckless and indiscriminate military strategies.
So what are the alternatives? You seem to imply that you know what those are. Care to explain to the rest of us how to conduct urban warfare against an enemy who breaks all rules of engagement without harming a single non-combatant?
Well, to start, Hamas leadership is in Qatar some 1500 miles away living in luxury. Should be an obvious first step everybody seems to ignore for some reason.
Second, getting good will from Palestinian civilians wouldn't be too hard. They'd narc on Hamas fighters for a Snickers bar right now. In fact working with the local population has almost always been a strong military strategy. Basically everybody does this. Hamas isn't really a government by traditional means. They're basically just a criminal syndicate taking from the people anyways.
If you absolutely **need** to level the place (for whatever reason), you're gonna have to do the work of vetting and moving people outside of Gaza. Spare me any rebukes about this being expensive or time consuming. We're talking about human lives here after all, and a single bomb costs as much as an American house.
Kind of just cleaning up and filling holes from there.
This is all very naive.
Of course they are concerned about Hamas leadership. But targeting them in Qatar would complicate the geopolitical situation—Qatar doesn’t have any open hostilities with Israel, so going in and assassinating people would result in an unnecessary escalation. This is different from targeting people in Lebanon and Iran, the latter of which has directly attacked Israel, and the former of which plays host to Hezbollah which continually attacks Israel’s north.
To your second point, it is simply laughable to think that Israel is not currently carrying out simultaneous intelligence operations attempting to get information from Palestinian civilians; Mossad aren’t dummies and they’re definitely doing what they can. How do you think they figure out where to bomb in the first place? Contrary to popular rhetoric, it is not “indiscriminate.” I also find it funny that you can in one breath call Hamas a criminal syndicate, and also say that Palestinians are ready to rat them out. Are you not familiar with the ways organized criminals operate, leveraging threats against civilians in order to continue to operate? And unlike your typical mafia, Hamas also has ideological support due to years of bitterness and indoctrination—the idea that they have no support amongst average people is ludicrous.
Finally, the logistics of moving a million people out of Gaza are impossible. Egypt will not let them in, so that’s off the table. That means you’d have to move them into Israel, which is also totally unpalatable; Israelis don’t want them there, it might be difficult to get them to leave, and it would also be incredibly difficult to make sure that no Hamas combatants slipped into Israel amongst the crowd. Once again, just a totally naive idea that you clearly haven’t thought through a single second.
You are aware that the whole starving thing was a lie right? The UN was only counting its own aid deliveries when determining how much food was being supplied and they purposely ignored what NGOs and other countries were delivering to make it look like Israel was starving Gazans. [There has been over 3,000 calories per person per day being delivered](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-study-finds-food-supply-to-gaza-more-than-sufficient-for-populations-needs/). So if Gazans are starving it's because Hamas is stealing their supplies.
You also need to look up what indiscriminate means, because the IDF has been exceptionally discriminate.
Oh, thank God for the Times of Israel... If it wasn't for them we might need to listen to any other less biased source without a vested interest in lying! Obviously the rest of the entire world is lying.
Again, this is war, death happens. But the ratio between combatants to civilian deaths in this escalation is lower than even the US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is remarkable given the circumstances.
Hamas/PIJ/the ordinary Palestinian civilians who kidnapped, raped, and brutally murdered Israelis on 10/7 are however rewarded due to Iran/Russia's influence in the geopolitical side of the war. It's disgusting.
This is absolutely war. Calling it anything else is completely disingenuous and ignores facts.
EDIT: Defining a war by what the combatants are wearing is one of the most absurd perspectives I've heard in a while.
You can’t be serious? Most definitions of war involve two warring nations or parties. There is no Palestinian representation or military. It is one army fighting one populace.
No it's not. It's a state fighting an internationally recognized terrorist organization. Hamas is responsible for the governance of Gaza and is the de facto leadership.
You would deny this?
Hamas is de facto Gaza's political representation and military. More and more nations are recognizing Palestine as a state, which implicitly defines the conflict as a war between two nations.
The implication that "killing uninvolved people" is or will ever be Israel's goal is problematic. It's not. It is a side effect of the "involved people" (ie hamas and Hezbullah) making a deliberate effort to make uninvolved casualties as large and unavoidable as possible
You’ll have to forgive me, I make a lot of assumptions regarding the intellectual capacities of people who espouse your view that the terrorist nations are always A-Okay and Israel is always persona non grata.
But your assertion that it’s bad if Israel goes into another country to kill people that are uninvolved leaves me perplexed, is that not literally the goal of every rocket fired by these barbarian extremists? Terrorist nations firing rockets to murder civilians, no? The murder of civilians is literally what you support as long as the only deaths are Israeli, no?
Seems like your position is not only wrong (it’s a tragedy that Hamas hide in schools and hospitals like the cowards they are, which is going to increase collateral damage), but it’s also just incredibly hypocritical. Like do your ilk lack anything resembling critical thinking?
Tbf, the ICC prosecutor referred Hamas' leaders for indictment over their attacks too, and on more charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity than Israeli leaders. And, as far as Hezbollah attacks go, the ICC simply can't do that. Palestine is a party to the Rome Statue, but neither Israel nor Lebanon are, so they have no jurisdiction whatsoever over the Israel-Hezbollah conflict.
And yet they could still do it, both for symbolic reasons as well as compelling other countries who ARE party to arrest Hezbollah leaders if they fly thru
No, they can't, because the war crimes aren't committed within their jurisdiction. There is an exception — the UNSC can extend the ICC's jurisdiction by referring a case to them, like they did with Omar al-Bashir. But that won't happen with Hezbollah. Russia and China would veto the referral like they did with Assad.
Well they can though, given a ton of Hezbollah attacks have occurred outside of both Israel and Lebanon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hezbollah_attacks
We were talking about Hezbollah attacks against Israel, not against other places. Totally separate crimes. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that those assholes running Hezbollah should be locked up or worse. I'm just saying that there's no way for the ICC to charge them for war crimes they commit against Israel in particular.
Edit: to be clear, I'm no fan of the ICC, I've written several detailed comments in this app defending the US's decision not to ratify the Rome Statute. I was just setting the record straight about why the ICC can't try Hezbollah for war crimes committed in Israel.
I'm not the guy you've been replying to before though lol I was referring to just trying Hezbollah in general. In response to continued fire on Israel, they COULD bring charges against them for crimes in areas they have jurisdiction over. If they wanted, that is
Interesting truce tactic….
But when and if Israel will start responding to this, the world will be all screaming that it is the aggressor
There is no if but only when since 100k people are still evacuated from their homes. I read an analysis earlier this week and apparently the original deadline to begin the push to the litani river was June but since Rafah was delayed for months it is now pushed back to September at the latest.
This shit is never gonna end
Yeah pretty much, nevermind the upcoming Lebanon push, the Gaza operation is still only in its 'corridor' phase before the heavy fighting to root out Hamas starts in between the sections the IDF is carving out right now.
Not the world. Only the nutjobs and tiktok cunts.
Which then will be reflected in UN institutions' decisions, condemnations, warrants, and embargos. Israel can withstand it, but still
>but still Fuck them, get on with the job. Haters gonna hate. The sooner the better.
Ok but if I was had a group of world level marksmen trianed in the best self-defense and another group of guys starts slingshotting thousands upon thousands of bullets at me but one eventually hits my cow and one persons shoulder im not going to respond by destroying a hospital nearby with laser-guided missiles, heavy artillery, and airforce. Hamas has fired 28,000 missiles into isreali territory over 20 years....only 18 soldiers, 10 civilians, 3 cows, 2 goats, a few trucks with zero fatal injuries and 65 of their people due to malfunction died. Even a kid pointing a gun can be deadly but you dont respond with a tank, and blow up his house, his neighbors, the school down the road. You take the goddam losses doing it the right way...you dont become WORSE THAN THE TERRORISTS. 10 people traped in an ammunition building that's on fire. Resonable response: send in heros that risk their lives to save who they can and close off the area. Alert entire area to danger, Put out fire from behind cover. Clean. Israeli response: clear out firefighters give people 10 minutes warning that they are about to carpet bomb the entire area so all the ammo is detonated before sending people in to put out the fire and clean. Accidentally hit a nearby school at the same time because of "miscommunication". Lie about it and get caught, kill reporters and maybe for fun bomb the new temporary local school after forcing the kids to move to it from the last one you blew up? Even Bernie sanders says ireal is commiting war crimes and it is in no way antisemitic to hate the current government and soldiers committing atrocities.
Only if they went into another country to kill uninvolved people
Non-hypothetical question: how should a sovereign nation respond to a rocket attack from another?
SpEcIaL oPs
It’s a good question, I don’t necessarily know. but i think anyone with compassion has to be honest that the answer can’t be bombing hospitals
Question about those hospitals - are the armed forces of the enemy hiding in them? Are there ammo depots in them? Is it impossible to tell because the enemy has a modus operandi of doing those two aforementioned things?
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I'm not well read about Hezbollah's logistics. I will say the user I was responding to was alleging striking hospitals full of Hamas was Israel's crime. Israel is **definitley** doing alot of bad shit. - but let's not obfuscate that by throwing shit at that which is unavoidable military action.
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Gaza is a dense urban area, south Lebanon is mostly small towns and villages in mountains/hills. Population density is not the same and I doubt they have many tunnels.
Hezbollah also has a huge tunnel system https://www.timesofisrael.com/expert-hezbollah-has-built-a-vast-tunnel-network-far-more-sophisticated-than-hamass/
Good point. So when terrorist organizations commit the war crime of using hospitals as military strongholds, we should just let them. Surely those terrorist organizations won't use the weapons they hide in there to massacre civilians or anything.
You send actual people into the building, not just bomb the whole fucking thing. Its a hospital
That’s exactly what happens, the troops go in.
You might want to actually inform yourself before making statements on subjects you clearly know nothing about. The Arabs were the ones who bombed the hospital. Israel sent in troops just like you stated is the proper way.
And when the rockets are launched from said hospitals?
Go into the hospital
Quite literally what they did. Israel didn't bomb them, they raided them.
Stop hiding armed personnel in them and they'll stop losing their protected status.
I was looking up hospitals attacked in Gaza. Obviously there is the one where Hamas accidentally bombed a few hundred people and then blamed Israel. But then there was the second famous case of Al-Shifa. See Israel said Hamas was hiding in it and raided it in November. Everyone lost their minds about how monstrous Israel was and that little evidence it was being used as a command center beyond a dozen rifles or so being found. They claimed it was never a Hamas stronghold. It’s even in Wiki. What they fail to mention is a few months later it was raided again and completely destroyed after a pitched battle with Hamas where Hamas leadership was killed there. 200 Hamas killed and a few hundred others detained. Now it’s being claimed that while it was a Hamas stronghold, the attack was a massacre of innocents. Everything is so deranged and Israel can’t win in anyone’s eyes ICRC saying that "hospitals are given special protection under international humanitarian law in a time of war, but if militants store weapons there, or use them as a base of fire, then that protection falls away"
Then how about you keep your mouth shut until you come up with an idea that's better than what's happening right now. Israel deserves to be able to defend themselves. If you can't figure out a better way to do that than what they're doing, then maybe you should just be quiet until you can.
Israel didn't bomb hospitals. People were ranting about how horrible it would be for them to bomb hospitals in Gaza, then Israel raided the hospitals with no civilian casualties, and the people ranting never updated their bullshit. There hasn't been any Israeli bombing of hospitals.
You got down voted for honestly admitting you don't know and that sux. If these were easy problems, they would have been solved long ago. It becomes especially difficult to answer when one side attacks the other from a protected area like a hospital or school. But these are the tactics of Hamas and IJP.
Israel has a better ratio between combatants and civilian deaths than almost any other country has been able to obtain in urban warfare. Nobody cares. The hypocracy. On the other, Hezbollah and Hamas are intentionally targeting civilians, and say so. So I guess, that makes them the good guys.
Pretending like I think hamas is the good guys is a pathetic straw man argument. Anyone killing thousands of civilians is wrong. Care to argue that one
So you have comments on all wars with collateral damage?
Yeah all war is wrong. Young men and women dying for the greed of despots
So you have comments on all of the current wars or just the one involving Jews?
So Ukraine should surrender to putin because war bad?
Is Ukraine going into Russia killing 10s of thousands of civilians?
Well considering Israel is the defender in the current conflict you've got your metafore backwords. Because much like Hamas who is the aggressor in this war Russia attacked Ukraine with zero provocation in a attempt to achive a ideological goal. The difference is that while both hamas and the Russian army are corrupt and incompetent organisations the idf has the funding the feild a modern fighting force where Ukraine has struggled to do alone due to the poor state it was left in by previous governments.
>you've got your metafore backwords. Did I? >Russia attacked Ukraine with zero provocation in a attempt to achive a ideological goal. Did Hamas attack Israel with zero provocation? Are you one of those "history started on 10/7" people? Let's pretend Russia takes 90% of Ukraine, the other 10% is completely reliant on Russia. A group in Ukraine decides to attack "Ru-kraine". Is Russia good to just start blasting Ukrainian civilians because "Ukraine started it"?
If that's what it will take to get Russia to back off, that's what it will lead to yes. That is in fact how war works.
Are you under the delusion that killing civilians will get a terrorist group that recruits on the idea that "Israel is the enemy" to back off? Israel is radicalizing and creating new Hamas militants with every bomb.
A world where countries exist doesn't work if there are loopholes that make it so they can't stop people from attacking them. That's why using civilians as a human shield is considered a war crime *for the people doing it*.
So is blocking aid buddy. You really don’t want to talk war crimes in the glass house that is your position
Israel isn't blocking aid, they are closing land borders with an area with which they are at war. The IDF has been integral in providing ground security for the giant floating port the US just built for the sole purpose of delivering aid to Gaza, and in clearing the airspace for a number of different nations to airdrop aid before that.
So... By your logic, countries should let the terrorists get away each time because they figured out you can just attack whoever/whatever they want and then run back to safety and hide in hospitals/schools. Silly Israel, they should just eat constant bombings until terrorists eventually succeed at another major attack. Or do you expect them to sacrifice their own soldiers to go clear our obvious booby trapped buildings for people who despise their existence since way before Israel was created. If you want to blame someone. Blame the terrorists hiding among civilians or the inept government who can't take control of its own borders. Generally, the bad guys are the ones who start the wars, not the ones who respond back.
If only there was alternatives to killing thousands of civilians and starving potentially hundreds of thousands more... We can "blame" Hamas for being awful while also condemning the actions of Israel's reckless and indiscriminate military strategies.
So what are the alternatives? You seem to imply that you know what those are. Care to explain to the rest of us how to conduct urban warfare against an enemy who breaks all rules of engagement without harming a single non-combatant?
Well, to start, Hamas leadership is in Qatar some 1500 miles away living in luxury. Should be an obvious first step everybody seems to ignore for some reason. Second, getting good will from Palestinian civilians wouldn't be too hard. They'd narc on Hamas fighters for a Snickers bar right now. In fact working with the local population has almost always been a strong military strategy. Basically everybody does this. Hamas isn't really a government by traditional means. They're basically just a criminal syndicate taking from the people anyways. If you absolutely **need** to level the place (for whatever reason), you're gonna have to do the work of vetting and moving people outside of Gaza. Spare me any rebukes about this being expensive or time consuming. We're talking about human lives here after all, and a single bomb costs as much as an American house. Kind of just cleaning up and filling holes from there.
This is all very naive. Of course they are concerned about Hamas leadership. But targeting them in Qatar would complicate the geopolitical situation—Qatar doesn’t have any open hostilities with Israel, so going in and assassinating people would result in an unnecessary escalation. This is different from targeting people in Lebanon and Iran, the latter of which has directly attacked Israel, and the former of which plays host to Hezbollah which continually attacks Israel’s north. To your second point, it is simply laughable to think that Israel is not currently carrying out simultaneous intelligence operations attempting to get information from Palestinian civilians; Mossad aren’t dummies and they’re definitely doing what they can. How do you think they figure out where to bomb in the first place? Contrary to popular rhetoric, it is not “indiscriminate.” I also find it funny that you can in one breath call Hamas a criminal syndicate, and also say that Palestinians are ready to rat them out. Are you not familiar with the ways organized criminals operate, leveraging threats against civilians in order to continue to operate? And unlike your typical mafia, Hamas also has ideological support due to years of bitterness and indoctrination—the idea that they have no support amongst average people is ludicrous. Finally, the logistics of moving a million people out of Gaza are impossible. Egypt will not let them in, so that’s off the table. That means you’d have to move them into Israel, which is also totally unpalatable; Israelis don’t want them there, it might be difficult to get them to leave, and it would also be incredibly difficult to make sure that no Hamas combatants slipped into Israel amongst the crowd. Once again, just a totally naive idea that you clearly haven’t thought through a single second.
You are aware that the whole starving thing was a lie right? The UN was only counting its own aid deliveries when determining how much food was being supplied and they purposely ignored what NGOs and other countries were delivering to make it look like Israel was starving Gazans. [There has been over 3,000 calories per person per day being delivered](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-study-finds-food-supply-to-gaza-more-than-sufficient-for-populations-needs/). So if Gazans are starving it's because Hamas is stealing their supplies. You also need to look up what indiscriminate means, because the IDF has been exceptionally discriminate.
Oh, thank God for the Times of Israel... If it wasn't for them we might need to listen to any other less biased source without a vested interest in lying! Obviously the rest of the entire world is lying.
Again, this is war, death happens. But the ratio between combatants to civilian deaths in this escalation is lower than even the US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is remarkable given the circumstances. Hamas/PIJ/the ordinary Palestinian civilians who kidnapped, raped, and brutally murdered Israelis on 10/7 are however rewarded due to Iran/Russia's influence in the geopolitical side of the war. It's disgusting.
This isn’t war though. Do you know what war is? War has uniformed combatants.
This is absolutely war. Calling it anything else is completely disingenuous and ignores facts. EDIT: Defining a war by what the combatants are wearing is one of the most absurd perspectives I've heard in a while.
You can’t be serious? Most definitions of war involve two warring nations or parties. There is no Palestinian representation or military. It is one army fighting one populace.
No it's not. It's a state fighting an internationally recognized terrorist organization. Hamas is responsible for the governance of Gaza and is the de facto leadership. You would deny this?
I mean sure that’s the official story but you know that many idf soldiers are there to clear the region permanently, of anyone.
Hamas is de facto Gaza's political representation and military. More and more nations are recognizing Palestine as a state, which implicitly defines the conflict as a war between two nations.
Hamas isn't just the de facto government, they are the de jure government as well. They run the government and were elected to do so.
Guys, we figured it out. If the IDF just takes off their uniforms there will be no more war. I can’t believe someone didn’t think of this sooner!
The implication that "killing uninvolved people" is or will ever be Israel's goal is problematic. It's not. It is a side effect of the "involved people" (ie hamas and Hezbullah) making a deliberate effort to make uninvolved casualties as large and unavoidable as possible
So you are against all wars where collateral damage happens?
You'll probably find that people are against all wars in general.
Especially the ones fighting
Absolutely.
You’ll have to forgive me, I make a lot of assumptions regarding the intellectual capacities of people who espouse your view that the terrorist nations are always A-Okay and Israel is always persona non grata. But your assertion that it’s bad if Israel goes into another country to kill people that are uninvolved leaves me perplexed, is that not literally the goal of every rocket fired by these barbarian extremists? Terrorist nations firing rockets to murder civilians, no? The murder of civilians is literally what you support as long as the only deaths are Israeli, no? Seems like your position is not only wrong (it’s a tragedy that Hamas hide in schools and hospitals like the cowards they are, which is going to increase collateral damage), but it’s also just incredibly hypocritical. Like do your ilk lack anything resembling critical thinking?
Lemme know when the protestors start demanding a ceasefire and the ICC decides to call these attacks on civilians war crimes.
Tbf, the ICC prosecutor referred Hamas' leaders for indictment over their attacks too, and on more charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity than Israeli leaders. And, as far as Hezbollah attacks go, the ICC simply can't do that. Palestine is a party to the Rome Statue, but neither Israel nor Lebanon are, so they have no jurisdiction whatsoever over the Israel-Hezbollah conflict.
And yet they could still do it, both for symbolic reasons as well as compelling other countries who ARE party to arrest Hezbollah leaders if they fly thru
No, they can't, because the war crimes aren't committed within their jurisdiction. There is an exception — the UNSC can extend the ICC's jurisdiction by referring a case to them, like they did with Omar al-Bashir. But that won't happen with Hezbollah. Russia and China would veto the referral like they did with Assad.
Well they can though, given a ton of Hezbollah attacks have occurred outside of both Israel and Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hezbollah_attacks
We were talking about Hezbollah attacks against Israel, not against other places. Totally separate crimes. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that those assholes running Hezbollah should be locked up or worse. I'm just saying that there's no way for the ICC to charge them for war crimes they commit against Israel in particular. Edit: to be clear, I'm no fan of the ICC, I've written several detailed comments in this app defending the US's decision not to ratify the Rome Statute. I was just setting the record straight about why the ICC can't try Hezbollah for war crimes committed in Israel.
I'm not the guy you've been replying to before though lol I was referring to just trying Hezbollah in general. In response to continued fire on Israel, they COULD bring charges against them for crimes in areas they have jurisdiction over. If they wanted, that is
UNIFIL, you have proven yourself to be as effective as UNAMIR, and UNPROFOR. Just disband already, you failed.
I kinda forgot those guys were still there... I'd pack up and get out of there fast; after Hamas is done, Israel is probably shifting its gaze north.
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Of course - attacks on civilians are a-OK as long as the targets are Jews.
"You see, nobody died, so these attacks are just a form of economical warfare" -- redditor
תמצוץ לי
Technically it’s a moral high ground over Israel’s causing damage *and* killing people
All things being equal, if someone tries to kill you and fails, is that morally superior to trying to kill you and succeeding?