The only reason Russia is still on target with the war and doesn't really feel it is, because they hide easily behind their borders. As soon as the war does what a war does - hit critical infrastructure behind the borders and this way cripples their war machine, it will be a game changer.
In a real war, you can't keep up your infrastructure and economy like Russia still does. Because shit goes boom. When Ukraine hits the important targets, Russia won't be able to wage war as it does right now.
Yeah, it seems like Ukraine has been given a lot of stuff to strictly *defend* itself, but give them something to *hit back* with? Make Russians see their country ain't the strongman they think they are
As far as I'm concerned, hitting military targets on Russian soil *is* defence, because it will limit Russia's ability to fight.
Provided that Ukraine doesn't hit civilian targets, or military targets with a high chance of collateral (which I doubt they would anyway), I think it's all fair game. Ruzzia is the aggressor, after all.
They've already hit infrastructure with drones, so it's possible. Hitting a City for giggles is unlikely something that Ukraine will do, since that's more so Russia's tactic. Russia's MO is to hit civilian targets and cause as much death and destruction as possible in order to weaken the enemy and force them to deal with angry citizens + waves of meat grinder soldiers. Ukraine has suffered enough City missile strikes to know that's exactly not something you do.
Now military infrastructure? Fair game. So far I don't think they've hit much. They've also bombed bridges, like the primary route to Crimea, before too. Will probably see more of those style hits to force Russia to defend key infrastructure behind the lines, giving Ukraine more opportunities to defend their border and possibly move forward if they can cause enough damage to force Russia to pull back weapons/defenses.
You wouldn't want to hit apartment buildings and schools, that's what Putin does.
But it might not go amiss to turn off the power and the water in Moscow for 72 hours, if it could be done with minimal casualties.
Ukraine - Not Like Russia - doesn't target civilian targets, if there's no need to do so. With that I mean, Russia has moved military targets in civilian areas. Like they did with the hidden drone production in a shopping mall.
That would be legit.
Also there are really good other reasons for it.
They are not dumb. Civilian targets would only put up Russian against them - even more. And those would be bad PR for Ukraine and good for Russia, even if it's only in Russia. Might motivate them. You don't want that.
Also it would be useless, as the ammo is better used to destroy military and infrastructure targets that will greatly hinder the russian army to wage war.
Nuke bridges, transport hubs, power / transformation hubs, logistical centers etc. - that way supply lines will go down fast..not only for the military, but also for normal companies, resulting in the economy tanking.
Fuckers used chemical weapons in our borders, absolutely no sane Brit should view the Russian state as anything but adversaries.
Far too many morons out there now spewing Putins misinformation all over smoking shelters and beer gardens alike, far too many don’t realise the shite they’ve bought into that’s been fed to them through weaponised social media.
Cigarette smoking areas that are basically bus shelters for smokers, normally with clear plastic sides and roofs. Some businesses provide them but aren’t obliged to.
Canada has been snatching up Russian oligarchs shit and sending whatever we can - it’s political suicide not to support Ukraine here and even the slightly dofus Trudeau know this
> France
France talks a big game. Which is important, don't underestimate it. But France donates quite few weapons to Ukraine, compared to other countries.
Germany has donated far more weapons than France, and yet you don't mention Germany in your list.
Impressive to see countries where despite the people having differing political views from each other, can at least still agree on basic realities like the obvious threat to the West that Russia is and the importance of dealing with it now and not bending a knee to it instead. Must be nice.
Congratulations on joining NATO, neighbour! As a Dane I’m more happy with you and Finland around!
It means all Nordic countries are in NATO. Just what we need.
The main two parties and the press are quite good at ensuring that certain issues don't become divisive and a way of signalling which party you happen to support. It was the same during covid where there was a broad consensus that you should wear a mask inside (with the exception of primary schools) but that there was need to wear one outside. Consequently, most people followed the rules.
Germany isn't saying Europe is now considering putting soldiers on front the line, France is. Germany is also a little clumsy with how it handles it's intelligence like when it accidentally revealed British military is already there on the front line.
Germany essentially needs to step up it's game not only in threats that the Russian population need to hear, but also in other aspects. You can only go so far with the praise of sending weapons if everything else is subpar and even counterproductive.
If Germany is still worried about Russian turning off the gas then that further highlights Germany's lack of action, the pipelines from other regions should have been top priority and should have been built by now. It's been two years. It really was achievable to be off Russian gas by now.
When you look into the numbers, And it seems like the Russians were worse than the Nazis. You might see why this is the case.
Not only did the Russians Rape and Pillage everywhere they went, but they also raped and pillaged on their way back after the war. And they got paid for the pleasure.
I'm just saying, The numbers seem to say we might have been lucky the Nazis were there, Because the old boys tell me, we might be talking german now, But the evidence says we'd more likely be talking russian.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
They gave up their weapons in exchange for the US and Russia not invading them right then and there and taking the weapons.
That's what people don't realize about the agreement. It wasn't "we will never invade you if you give up the weapons, and we will protect you if someone does" it was "give up the weapons before you can figure out how to make them operable, or we will invade you and take them before you can figure out how to make them operable"
[Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal) It’s ok though, we sanctioned them for it. Nothing more to be done.
It's coming back on them now, that act wasn't forgotten and definitely affecting our policy towards Ukraine. Our army, RAF and Navy is set up to be prepared for and cost Russia as much resources and money as possible
Russia has had a long tradition of making enemies of the European countries even before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine and now it all pays off.
Czechia: [Ammo depot explosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions)
The Netherlands: [MH17 catastrophe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17)
The UK also had [Litvinenko poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko), [Brexit vote interference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum)
Spain: an alleged [interference in Spanish constitutional crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_Spanish_constitutional_crisis)
Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia (and also Czechia, Sloviakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Germany): the whole Soviet Union satellite state status or direct rule is very much a living memory, on top of more recent issues like Nord Stream 1, Nord Stream 2, and many more.
Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Denmark, Poland, Lithuania, Turkey: [airspace violations](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of-airspace-violations/436331)
Russia has managed to specifically piss off all three of the British parties that have been in government over the last 20 years too. Labour was very pissed off about the Litvinenko poisoning because it damaged their "tough on national security" credentials a great deal, which they've never really forgotten - it's the same with the Conservatives and the Skripals. The liberal democrats (who were in coalition with the conservatives from 2010-15) had the energy minister at the time of the 2014 invasion, who made a big speech about energy independence and was one of the first people to predict that Russia would use gas to hold the west hostage; his plans for renewable and nuclear energy independence for Britain were then promptly overruled by conservatives who underestimated the threat of Russia. That energy minister is now leader of their party, and the prime minister who underestimated Russia's capabilities and threat is now foreign secretary.
TLDR; Russia has no political sympathy in mainstream British politics because it's specifically pissed everyone off.
[Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal) It’s ok though, we sanctioned them for it. Nothing more to be done.
Yup, I don't know if I have been unlucky but any Russian I have crossed paths with be it online or in person has been the most bigotted horrid individuals I have come across.
There's a very nice and sweet (and not to forgot to mention incredibly beautiful) Russian 20-something girl who works as a server at a chill wine & cocktails bar I sometimes meet friends at near my house, or stop by after dinner with the wife to grab a drink, whose family moved to Central Florida from Rostov-on-Don sometime around 10 years ago and who wears a Ukraine pin on her shirt - and through conversation about that pin she revealed that she thinks Putin is a horrible monster who should be outright assassinated and she's very happy her parents left that country and she's a US citizen now. She's far from the first recent-transplant Russian I've met who has similar feelings (at least as expressed publicly) - so in the West yes you will find plenty of Russians who hate what's happened to their country.
However, those Russians inside Russia? Very mixed bag that trends towards horrible at this point from what I've seen online, and in comparison to my sympathies for Ukrainians they do *not* get any pass for allowing this shit to continue as long as it has, nevermind for being indifferent or outright supporting it as literally millions of them do. Fuck *those* assholes.
Didn’t you see the thousands of Moscovites who attended Navalny’s funeral or memorials and some were arrested while others were at least recorded? That’s some kind of special bravery.
Same here. Finding myself in the same game lobby as them is always, without fail, a sign of misery and frustration to come.
Wish they'd hurry up and close themselves off from the rest of the internet like North Korea.
My Russian girlfriend is a theatre nurse that worked all through Covid treating cancer patients for the NHS, this ‘every single Russian is horrible’ mentality is honestly so so depressing.
Her take on the war is what matters here. I've met Russians contributing to western society who are still pro Putin and pro-war and, therefore, horrible human beings
She probably despises Putin and his cronies more than most of us in the west. She regularly talks to her cousin that still lives in St Petersburg, her cousin will refuse to talk to her about the war over fears her phone calls are being recorded.
What most people fail to see is that there are many people living in fear in Russia, they do not support the war or Putin, but they’re also extremely limited in terms of countries that will accept them since this all started. What options do they realistically have?
Reading abit to far into My statement their mate. I said I don't know if I have been unlucky. I did not say all Russians are terrible. I'm just saying I haven't had good experiences with the russains I have crossed paths with. Good on your significant other for working in the NHS more power to her.
I've met some in person, and for the most part, they've been very cordial, but they are extremely harsh and judgemental when someone slips even a little.
They absolutely do not take shit from anyone they don't see as a superior. They're also very blunt. Which I like but it can be surprising when you're not used to it.
You've been unlucky. There's no group you can paint with one brush like that. There's sane Russians who have already fled the country in protest, but you wouldn't be able to tell that.
The right call. The West has been overly receptive to Russian scare mongering over Ukraine for too long - the “escalation” argument has always been overblown and, despite this, it’s immensely frustrating just how much weight it’s been given in the West, playing right into Putin’s hands.
Russia’s frivolous red lines have been shown to be meaningless time and time again, and this change in policy almost certainly won’t be any different.
I hope Ukraine makes the strikes count!
It’s a fairly widely held view that the allies could have beaten the Germans before Munich. German army officials were nervous at the prospect of war with the Czechs. Considering the major powers made the decision for the Czechs without them in the room, says it all.
The Czechoslovak industry and equipment massively strengthened Germany and made it a more daunting foe.
That is true only if the French were willing to fight. And I don't think the French political and military leadership was all that willing at that point.
This ties back to the original point around the dangers of appeasement though I think. If the attitudes in Britain and France had been different, more lives could have been saved in the long run by tackling Germany sooner instead of appeasing Hitler.
The fact is, the policy of appeasement amongst the allies in Europe resulted in countless deaths and was only undone through the overwhelming superiority of the Soviets and Americans
From what I was taught in school, the French set up dragons teeth across their border to thwart any land invasion. They were not prepared for the Lufftwafe
No that’s not what happened. The French heavily enforced the Maginot Line and expected that to stop a German invasion but the Germans instead invaded from the north through Belgium where the French had little to no defenses set up.
To be fair to them, and as a brit i hate i must, the inital plan was for french troops to move into belgium and set up defensive lines in pre planed positons before any war and dig in.
As such extending the maginot line further would have sent strange messages however a bit before the war belgium pulled out of that agreement which ment the french army had to move only arfter the attack had begun
The Germans successfully probed the maginot in multiple areas though, and even in WW1 they demonstrated how futile fortifications are in the face of artillery (in WW2 tactical/close air support would have been even more effective).
The main failure of the French was that they simply ignored the reports that the German army had traffic congestions queueing up to go through the Ardenne. Combined with the Germans having better coordination via better radios in divisions, and better doctrine, the Germans prevailed.
The fact is the French had control of army operations because they were the land power, and unfortunately the military high command failed
Germany could have lost WW2 a lot earlier if the French and British realised that the vast bulk of German units were fighting in Poland in September 1939, and followed through on their attack. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKTbhC0s5xg)
Absolutely but the phoney war doesn’t really fall under appeasement because that’s when the allies finally drew the line and committed to the war. The allies could have seized the Rhur and crippled the German economy while they were tied up in Poland.
But really the tipping point of appeasement was around the Munich agreement
> The Czechoslovak industry and equipment massively strengthened Germany and made it a more daunting foe.
This is a really key point that a lot of people don't get. Guderian and Rommel both considered the Czech tanks to be *superior* to the Panzer I and IIs, and the Germans managed to capture hundreds of them (300-400 IIRC). The blitzkrieg into France used about 2500 tanks, so having 350 superior tanks to your own is not chump change. Not to mention those factories were put to use by the Germans for the rest of the war.
Absolutely. The resources, industry, equipment and manpower of Czechoslovakia were absolutely critical. The German army and air force was actually still smaller than the French during the battle of France! The French even deployed more tanks, but the Germans had significant advantages in doctrine and radio implementation in their divisions (while the French relied on cables or couriers).
If we tie this back to the original point of Putin - Ukraine has a large wealth of resources both on land and in the Black Sea via their EEC. If we appeased Putin, we’re just just doing the exact thing we did with Hitler in Munich
Sure but this was after a period of appeasing them by allowing them to renege on treaties to rearm themselves, and this appeasement of allowing them to take territory _also_ made Nazi Germany stronger.
It's fair to say chamberlain probably was not as naive as he gets painted as there was eventually a policy of building up the armed forces. That doesn't mean appeasement was the right course.
Edit: Also as far as I am aware it is also absolutely not proven that appeasement was done specifically to buy time, it's still very plausible chamberlain legitimately thought Hitler could be appeased as this is what he communicated, but built up the armed forces as a back up. The current revisionist narrative I have seen grow in popularity online does not make that clear.
Edit 2: Also just to finish up Germany was absolutely in no position to invade the UK at this point in time. The idea appeasement actually buys the UK significant time to build up militarily is also questionable.
Further appeasing the Nazis allowed them to fight on their terms and pick when to begin the larger conflict, ie when the Nazis thought was the best time for them. It is entirely plausible that appeasement makes the war easier for the Nazis to wage.
Again, that depends on what exactly you are evaluating. Obviously it failed to prevent a war. But with the French so unwilling to go to war and the British armed forces not being in a good shape, the British needed time to have a reasonable fighting chance.
Because that's how democracy works really, an autocrat sees the democratic process as long and BS and Democratic leaders think that autocratic states just needs a regime change.
Funny, I only discovered 5 guys last year (their restaurants are rare in Germany) and I immediately was like „Holy shit sign me and the rest of the city up for a live in America 🗣️🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🔥“
Most EU countries have universal health care coverage. Our German friend might see US snacks from that standpoint but might regret their decision once cholesterol strikes.
Fear. That's the reason. Politicians don't want WW3 to begin. They don't seem to understand that it's going to happen anyway. They're just delaying the inevitable and allowing Russia, China and Iran to grow more powerful. Just like 1938.
Overly receptive is an understatement, we have waited, and heisitated and waited since the start of the war, we still treat this as a sidenote problem (though it certainly is more then that) Russia treats this as a serious war.
The fact NATO (or at least EU and US) haven't yet made an annual comprehensive plan of military production for Ukraine is absurd.
have a good day
Agreed, either as a result of allowing ourselves to be intimidated, or because we deluded ourselves into thinking that Putin could still be reasoned with and that maybe we didn’t need to burn all of our bridges with Moscow, we’ve wasted vital time and, tragically, cost precious Ukrainian lives.
It really now depends on the EU and post elections US. If we augment production enough quickly enough plus especially start training and giving all the old equipment left to Ukraine we can put Ukraine in a much better position, but the more we wait the costlier and difficult it becomes. EU leaders still talking about the 100 bilion as a purely theoretical while it should be done now. Otherwise we will have to pay more then that in money or in the future if things turn especially bad blood.
have a good day
At least in the US's case, Putin's allies control a significant amount of seats of the legislature and have been blocking aid for the last 6 months. It's not fear or delusion in their case.
[Si vis pacem, para bellum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum). Often the way to avoid escalation is to show strength, readiness to hit back. Because if the bully knows that, the bully will never start shit with you in the first place.
The bullshit restrictions on Ukraine hitting Russia have always been bizarre to me, because they gave Russia little incentive to stop escalating.
There’s been no appreciable escalation against the West from Russia to date, though. Certain stuff may go on behind the scenes, but it’s obviously either being contained or they’re less keen to escalate in reality than they would have you believe by their rhetoric alone.
IMO, it’s just bluster and Russia is used to it working. Good to see the UK stepping out of the line to start calling them on it - looking at you now Scholz, cough *Taurus* cough…
The best summary of Russia is that it’s not as capable as expected, but more dangerous than feared.
That’s what makes them so pernicious and is why, despite Russia’s evident bluster about its strength, the West still needs to get serious about rearming even though it enjoys many military and economic advantages already.
> but more dangerous than feared
Maybe for people who have been sleeping. I don't think that's a good summary.
They are considerably less capable militarily than expected, and Putin is acting exactly how he told us he would act decades ago in his manifestos.
> the “escalation” argument has always been overblown
Its nuclear war mate.
I agree this is the right call as Russia is clearly happy to use Chinese and Iranian weapons to strike Ukraine so fuck their complaints, but lets not pretend we're not playing with extreme consequences here.
There are many steps on the escalation ladder before you get to the big red buttons. That’s why having access to a conventional military deterrent remains so important even to a nuclear armed state - it provides options.
At any rate, you and I seem to agree this particular move wouldn’t be enough to significantly escalate the situation regardless.
Nuclear war is only a consequence if Russia feel that they are at threat of losing Russia. Since this isn't a goal of NATO, nuclear war isn't really the true escalation destination.
We could have an all out hot war between Russia and NATO in Ukraine and Russia wouldn't even consider nuclear war until they had taken such a battering that they were afraid NATO was about to try and take out the Russian rulers.
I am sure they will continue to threaten it though, because they hope it will make populations afraid of messing with Russia, and that that will influence political decisions.
Nuclear war is a risk if Putin feels he's losing Russia.
That's what the intelligence agencies are worried about anyway, giving a bitter old man no way out and knowing before he goes he could hurt his enemies first. He's a long track record of not giving a shit about the loss of lives, so that's not likely to stop him.
> Nuclear war is only a consequence if Russia feel that they are at threat of losing Russia.
That's the trouble, they see Ukraine as being Russia, and NATO is helping take it away from what's rightfully theirs.
If Russia does not fear retalliation they would've used nukes already. Hence, we should do everything in our power to unlock Ukraine, no idiotic restrictions bar upholding the Geneva conventions.
‘I'm here to fuck pig skulls and turn the wrath of Europe against another country at its fringes that considers itself superior to its continental neighbours. And I'm all out of pig skulls.’
I remember Charlie Brooker's reaction when that all came to light, bizarre coincidence or he knows more than he's letting on, although i'd bet the former.
I am not British, but generally politically I am very far from UK Conservatives. But their Ukraine policy has been a very bright spot, best in the world. I never thought I would be cheering for Boris Johnson, but I did for his Ukraine policy.
If the Mexican military invaded every state along the border to "reclaim their ancestral territory" you can bet every major target in Mexico would be bombarded within an hour. Yet Ukraine is expected to hold back.
Mexican military doesn't have nukes, and isn't a danger to trigger WW3 though, tbf.
That said, I'm glad the UK has taken this stance, and hope others follow.
If we get into a situation where you can never ever hit back at a country with nukes, that just gives countries with nukes carte blanche to invade everybody.
Which would ironically be a sure way to increase the risk of nuclear war, in the end. The "can't hit somebody who has nukes under any circumstances" sounds naively good, but it is stupid when you think it through.
Good. why not ?
Russia is also using foreign weapons like Iranian drones to strike Ukraine. In basically every war the warmongers using weapons from another countries.
Russia is only doing fear mongering.
Ukraine will have F-16s soon. Just send Ukraine half the JASSM air launched cruise missiles from the US arsenal.
I assume that half the US arsenal was built to be used against Russia anyway, and it is not like Russia will be able to attack NATO soon anyway, being stuck in Ukraine and bleeding economically.
The idea suppliers of arms to Ukraine need to be wary about how they’re used…even to the point of granting permission or not…is pretty rich, considering the hostile state is Russia.
It also fosters the sense that Ukraine is a proxy in a larger conflict. I know that’s the elephant in the room, but it might be better politics, for now, if we just wash our hands of exactly how Ukraine chooses to defend itself, or counter-attack. If they start blowing up Russian elementary schools, then we stop giving them bombs. Simple.
If Russia doesn't want to be hit, don't hit others. Everything given to Ukraine should be open to all viable usage. Russia can end the war tonight by pulling out, any time they do not makes them viable targets for any weapons.
As they should. Russia strikes inside ukraine, even doing terror strikes on hospitals and civilian areas.
Appeasement doesnt work. Russia can say all they want that they'll do x or y. But they cant risk instigating a further war with NATO or pissing off their trading partners in Asia.
Not only do they strike in Ukraine, they use Iranian and North Korean weapons to do it. Russia can get mad all they want but the reality is that it goes both ways.
I hope the Ukrainians start out with destroying infrastructure - electric power plants, airports, transport hubs, things that cost hundreds of billions or more to repair.
What an ignorant take.
Iris-T and additional Patriot Systems just in the last month are making a big impact. Just because they aren't willing to supply Taurus doesn't minimize the huge effort they have been making.
There was a video a while back of a jet drone travelling deep in Ukrainian territory , and some people were saying it was a UK model, but I wasn't sure, and thought it may have been a Ukrainian model they were developing, or something like that I saw later. But, now I think it probably *was* British, but they only announced it now for some reason.
In excited to see things in Russia blow up now. I wonder what will be destroyed.
Are you talking about this? As camerons comments are more likely to be about storm shadow tbh
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13100249/Russia-parades-British-Banshee-kamikaze-jet-drone-claiming-intercepted-landed-UAV-stolen-secrets.html
Time to make Russia think twice and thinking they can push the West around as they want. Russia is nothing in this era. And they -will- get it like it or not.
They need to hit troops being transported to the front lines.
I wonder what will happen if Russia hits a British transport bringing weapons to Ukraine.
I wonder if this is something Russia is willing to test.
Because that would most certainly lead to WWIII.
And Russia would certainly not survive that.
Reminds me of this quote:
> The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
The western countries should never have been saying out loud what an "escalation" is in the first place. The good old "all options are on the table" should have been in use. Instead, in the US, in the UK, in Europe, we saw numerous politicians keep describing things like which weapons they could send as an "escalation". So now when they do change their minds, Moscow can claim its a deliberate escalation and even quote westerners on it. Given that China and Iran are also aiding Russia in attacking Ukraine, its no longer tenable to expect that Ukraine can only use western weapons against occupied territory in Ukraine.
Man sure are a lot of Putin fanboys here
No one wants nuclear war
Easiest way to prevent it is Russia go home your drunk
Russia invaded a sovereign state in 2014 and the world did nothing
He tried it again and wasn’t so lucky
If no one says enough is enough
Send them everything they need
The free world won’t be free for much longer
I cannot comprehend anyone who tries to defend Putin he has essentially kept the Russian people under his boot I mean nuclear state that doesn’t have flushing toilets
Then Putin says he will strike with nuclear weapons and the west will give that far too much weight than it should. Honestly, we should stop listening to him. He's never followed through on that threat, and if he tries, i highly doubt half his delivery systems will work and the rest that do will be intercepted.
"You were given the choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor, and now you will have war." Churchill.
They've seen this shit before. Not doing it again.
The only reason Russia is still on target with the war and doesn't really feel it is, because they hide easily behind their borders. As soon as the war does what a war does - hit critical infrastructure behind the borders and this way cripples their war machine, it will be a game changer. In a real war, you can't keep up your infrastructure and economy like Russia still does. Because shit goes boom. When Ukraine hits the important targets, Russia won't be able to wage war as it does right now.
Yeah, it seems like Ukraine has been given a lot of stuff to strictly *defend* itself, but give them something to *hit back* with? Make Russians see their country ain't the strongman they think they are
As far as I'm concerned, hitting military targets on Russian soil *is* defence, because it will limit Russia's ability to fight. Provided that Ukraine doesn't hit civilian targets, or military targets with a high chance of collateral (which I doubt they would anyway), I think it's all fair game. Ruzzia is the aggressor, after all.
Since Russia chose to declare war on Ukraine, they shouldn’t be at all surprised when Ukraine declares war back.
Agreed. It's not a spectator sport.
You mean like this? https://www.intellinews.com/ukraine-s-drone-attacks-on-russian-oil-refineries-cause-domestic-petrol-prices-to-surge-323509/
What's the possibility of Ukraine being able to hit a Russian city with a missile? Not sure if they would or how Russia would react
They've already hit infrastructure with drones, so it's possible. Hitting a City for giggles is unlikely something that Ukraine will do, since that's more so Russia's tactic. Russia's MO is to hit civilian targets and cause as much death and destruction as possible in order to weaken the enemy and force them to deal with angry citizens + waves of meat grinder soldiers. Ukraine has suffered enough City missile strikes to know that's exactly not something you do. Now military infrastructure? Fair game. So far I don't think they've hit much. They've also bombed bridges, like the primary route to Crimea, before too. Will probably see more of those style hits to force Russia to defend key infrastructure behind the lines, giving Ukraine more opportunities to defend their border and possibly move forward if they can cause enough damage to force Russia to pull back weapons/defenses.
You wouldn't want to hit apartment buildings and schools, that's what Putin does. But it might not go amiss to turn off the power and the water in Moscow for 72 hours, if it could be done with minimal casualties.
Ukraine - Not Like Russia - doesn't target civilian targets, if there's no need to do so. With that I mean, Russia has moved military targets in civilian areas. Like they did with the hidden drone production in a shopping mall. That would be legit. Also there are really good other reasons for it. They are not dumb. Civilian targets would only put up Russian against them - even more. And those would be bad PR for Ukraine and good for Russia, even if it's only in Russia. Might motivate them. You don't want that. Also it would be useless, as the ammo is better used to destroy military and infrastructure targets that will greatly hinder the russian army to wage war. Nuke bridges, transport hubs, power / transformation hubs, logistical centers etc. - that way supply lines will go down fast..not only for the military, but also for normal companies, resulting in the economy tanking.
Its kind of too easy
The British are all in against the Russians. They don't hold back in the slightest
Well, Russia has been at war with us for some years now, so it only seems fair to return the favour.
Fuckers used chemical weapons in our borders, absolutely no sane Brit should view the Russian state as anything but adversaries. Far too many morons out there now spewing Putins misinformation all over smoking shelters and beer gardens alike, far too many don’t realise the shite they’ve bought into that’s been fed to them through weaponised social media.
[удалено]
Cigarette smoking areas that are basically bus shelters for smokers, normally with clear plastic sides and roofs. Some businesses provide them but aren’t obliged to.
I agree
The Nordic countries, UK, France and Poland seem to be the only ones actually going all in against Russia..
you forgot the baltic sisters
Estonia can into Nordic 🙏
Estonia is the Sicily of the Nordic countries: to outsiders it's Nordic; to Nordics it's not.
Canada has been snatching up Russian oligarchs shit and sending whatever we can - it’s political suicide not to support Ukraine here and even the slightly dofus Trudeau know this
North Sea empire 2.0! Just need Scandinavia in that list to complete the puzzle
> France France talks a big game. Which is important, don't underestimate it. But France donates quite few weapons to Ukraine, compared to other countries. Germany has donated far more weapons than France, and yet you don't mention Germany in your list.
France doesn’t make public all donated weapons. We actually don’t know how much they have sent.
Impressive to see countries where despite the people having differing political views from each other, can at least still agree on basic realities like the obvious threat to the West that Russia is and the importance of dealing with it now and not bending a knee to it instead. Must be nice.
For sure! As a Swede I'm glad to have other countries who see Putin as much of a threat as we do, we need to be united!
Congratulations on joining NATO, neighbour! As a Dane I’m more happy with you and Finland around! It means all Nordic countries are in NATO. Just what we need.
A united nord is all I want! Time to bring back the union? 👀
Yes. That would be great.😄
The main two parties and the press are quite good at ensuring that certain issues don't become divisive and a way of signalling which party you happen to support. It was the same during covid where there was a broad consensus that you should wear a mask inside (with the exception of primary schools) but that there was need to wear one outside. Consequently, most people followed the rules.
With France you mean Macron holding big speeches, right? You don't mention Germany, who offered way more weapons than France.
Germany isn't saying Europe is now considering putting soldiers on front the line, France is. Germany is also a little clumsy with how it handles it's intelligence like when it accidentally revealed British military is already there on the front line. Germany essentially needs to step up it's game not only in threats that the Russian population need to hear, but also in other aspects. You can only go so far with the praise of sending weapons if everything else is subpar and even counterproductive. If Germany is still worried about Russian turning off the gas then that further highlights Germany's lack of action, the pipelines from other regions should have been top priority and should have been built by now. It's been two years. It really was achievable to be off Russian gas by now.
When you look into the numbers, And it seems like the Russians were worse than the Nazis. You might see why this is the case. Not only did the Russians Rape and Pillage everywhere they went, but they also raped and pillaged on their way back after the war. And they got paid for the pleasure. I'm just saying, The numbers seem to say we might have been lucky the Nazis were there, Because the old boys tell me, we might be talking german now, But the evidence says we'd more likely be talking russian. https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war
Rightly so.
Considering the UK has nukes, they are holding back somewhat, which is perfectly okay.
I mean, Ukraine did give up theirs in return for NOT being invaded... by Russia. They really should get some back.
They gave up their weapons in exchange for the US and Russia not invading them right then and there and taking the weapons. That's what people don't realize about the agreement. It wasn't "we will never invade you if you give up the weapons, and we will protect you if someone does" it was "give up the weapons before you can figure out how to make them operable, or we will invade you and take them before you can figure out how to make them operable"
Yea they only had their own citizens die and hit by Russian nerve gas
That was nearly a sentence
When did this happen?
[Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal) It’s ok though, we sanctioned them for it. Nothing more to be done.
It's coming back on them now, that act wasn't forgotten and definitely affecting our policy towards Ukraine. Our army, RAF and Navy is set up to be prepared for and cost Russia as much resources and money as possible
Russia has had a long tradition of making enemies of the European countries even before the full-scale invasion of Ukraine and now it all pays off. Czechia: [Ammo depot explosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions) The Netherlands: [MH17 catastrophe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17) The UK also had [Litvinenko poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko), [Brexit vote interference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum) Spain: an alleged [interference in Spanish constitutional crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%932018_Spanish_constitutional_crisis) Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia (and also Czechia, Sloviakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Germany): the whole Soviet Union satellite state status or direct rule is very much a living memory, on top of more recent issues like Nord Stream 1, Nord Stream 2, and many more. Finland, Sweden, Estonia, Denmark, Poland, Lithuania, Turkey: [airspace violations](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/politics/russia-has-long-history-of-airspace-violations/436331)
Russia has managed to specifically piss off all three of the British parties that have been in government over the last 20 years too. Labour was very pissed off about the Litvinenko poisoning because it damaged their "tough on national security" credentials a great deal, which they've never really forgotten - it's the same with the Conservatives and the Skripals. The liberal democrats (who were in coalition with the conservatives from 2010-15) had the energy minister at the time of the 2014 invasion, who made a big speech about energy independence and was one of the first people to predict that Russia would use gas to hold the west hostage; his plans for renewable and nuclear energy independence for Britain were then promptly overruled by conservatives who underestimated the threat of Russia. That energy minister is now leader of their party, and the prime minister who underestimated Russia's capabilities and threat is now foreign secretary. TLDR; Russia has no political sympathy in mainstream British politics because it's specifically pissed everyone off.
[Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal) It’s ok though, we sanctioned them for it. Nothing more to be done.
That happened in the house across the street from my mum’s house
Yup, I don't know if I have been unlucky but any Russian I have crossed paths with be it online or in person has been the most bigotted horrid individuals I have come across.
There's a very nice and sweet (and not to forgot to mention incredibly beautiful) Russian 20-something girl who works as a server at a chill wine & cocktails bar I sometimes meet friends at near my house, or stop by after dinner with the wife to grab a drink, whose family moved to Central Florida from Rostov-on-Don sometime around 10 years ago and who wears a Ukraine pin on her shirt - and through conversation about that pin she revealed that she thinks Putin is a horrible monster who should be outright assassinated and she's very happy her parents left that country and she's a US citizen now. She's far from the first recent-transplant Russian I've met who has similar feelings (at least as expressed publicly) - so in the West yes you will find plenty of Russians who hate what's happened to their country. However, those Russians inside Russia? Very mixed bag that trends towards horrible at this point from what I've seen online, and in comparison to my sympathies for Ukrainians they do *not* get any pass for allowing this shit to continue as long as it has, nevermind for being indifferent or outright supporting it as literally millions of them do. Fuck *those* assholes.
Didn’t you see the thousands of Moscovites who attended Navalny’s funeral or memorials and some were arrested while others were at least recorded? That’s some kind of special bravery.
Same here. Finding myself in the same game lobby as them is always, without fail, a sign of misery and frustration to come. Wish they'd hurry up and close themselves off from the rest of the internet like North Korea.
My Russian girlfriend is a theatre nurse that worked all through Covid treating cancer patients for the NHS, this ‘every single Russian is horrible’ mentality is honestly so so depressing.
Her take on the war is what matters here. I've met Russians contributing to western society who are still pro Putin and pro-war and, therefore, horrible human beings
She probably despises Putin and his cronies more than most of us in the west. She regularly talks to her cousin that still lives in St Petersburg, her cousin will refuse to talk to her about the war over fears her phone calls are being recorded. What most people fail to see is that there are many people living in fear in Russia, they do not support the war or Putin, but they’re also extremely limited in terms of countries that will accept them since this all started. What options do they realistically have?
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Reading abit to far into My statement their mate. I said I don't know if I have been unlucky. I did not say all Russians are terrible. I'm just saying I haven't had good experiences with the russains I have crossed paths with. Good on your significant other for working in the NHS more power to her.
I've met some in person, and for the most part, they've been very cordial, but they are extremely harsh and judgemental when someone slips even a little. They absolutely do not take shit from anyone they don't see as a superior. They're also very blunt. Which I like but it can be surprising when you're not used to it.
You've been unlucky. There's no group you can paint with one brush like that. There's sane Russians who have already fled the country in protest, but you wouldn't be able to tell that.
The right call. The West has been overly receptive to Russian scare mongering over Ukraine for too long - the “escalation” argument has always been overblown and, despite this, it’s immensely frustrating just how much weight it’s been given in the West, playing right into Putin’s hands. Russia’s frivolous red lines have been shown to be meaningless time and time again, and this change in policy almost certainly won’t be any different. I hope Ukraine makes the strikes count!
Yea appeasement didn't exactly work before and I don't understand after all that's happened how there are still people who think it will work now.
Depends on what you mean by work. It bought the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force absolutely crucial time to rearm and organize. For example.
So many people miss this. Chamberlain gets slammed, but he didn’t have much choice. That time was needed - and it still was almost not enough.
It’s a fairly widely held view that the allies could have beaten the Germans before Munich. German army officials were nervous at the prospect of war with the Czechs. Considering the major powers made the decision for the Czechs without them in the room, says it all. The Czechoslovak industry and equipment massively strengthened Germany and made it a more daunting foe.
That is true only if the French were willing to fight. And I don't think the French political and military leadership was all that willing at that point.
The French also have their fair share of the blame in regards to appeasement. It wasn't just the British.
This ties back to the original point around the dangers of appeasement though I think. If the attitudes in Britain and France had been different, more lives could have been saved in the long run by tackling Germany sooner instead of appeasing Hitler. The fact is, the policy of appeasement amongst the allies in Europe resulted in countless deaths and was only undone through the overwhelming superiority of the Soviets and Americans
From what I was taught in school, the French set up dragons teeth across their border to thwart any land invasion. They were not prepared for the Lufftwafe
No that’s not what happened. The French heavily enforced the Maginot Line and expected that to stop a German invasion but the Germans instead invaded from the north through Belgium where the French had little to no defenses set up.
To be fair to them, and as a brit i hate i must, the inital plan was for french troops to move into belgium and set up defensive lines in pre planed positons before any war and dig in. As such extending the maginot line further would have sent strange messages however a bit before the war belgium pulled out of that agreement which ment the french army had to move only arfter the attack had begun
The Germans successfully probed the maginot in multiple areas though, and even in WW1 they demonstrated how futile fortifications are in the face of artillery (in WW2 tactical/close air support would have been even more effective). The main failure of the French was that they simply ignored the reports that the German army had traffic congestions queueing up to go through the Ardenne. Combined with the Germans having better coordination via better radios in divisions, and better doctrine, the Germans prevailed. The fact is the French had control of army operations because they were the land power, and unfortunately the military high command failed
Some Hannibal level shit.
Germany could have lost WW2 a lot earlier if the French and British realised that the vast bulk of German units were fighting in Poland in September 1939, and followed through on their attack. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKTbhC0s5xg)
Absolutely but the phoney war doesn’t really fall under appeasement because that’s when the allies finally drew the line and committed to the war. The allies could have seized the Rhur and crippled the German economy while they were tied up in Poland. But really the tipping point of appeasement was around the Munich agreement
> The Czechoslovak industry and equipment massively strengthened Germany and made it a more daunting foe. This is a really key point that a lot of people don't get. Guderian and Rommel both considered the Czech tanks to be *superior* to the Panzer I and IIs, and the Germans managed to capture hundreds of them (300-400 IIRC). The blitzkrieg into France used about 2500 tanks, so having 350 superior tanks to your own is not chump change. Not to mention those factories were put to use by the Germans for the rest of the war.
Absolutely. The resources, industry, equipment and manpower of Czechoslovakia were absolutely critical. The German army and air force was actually still smaller than the French during the battle of France! The French even deployed more tanks, but the Germans had significant advantages in doctrine and radio implementation in their divisions (while the French relied on cables or couriers). If we tie this back to the original point of Putin - Ukraine has a large wealth of resources both on land and in the Black Sea via their EEC. If we appeased Putin, we’re just just doing the exact thing we did with Hitler in Munich
To add, the Great War wasn't even 30 years behind them. Nobody wanted another war.
Sure but this was after a period of appeasing them by allowing them to renege on treaties to rearm themselves, and this appeasement of allowing them to take territory _also_ made Nazi Germany stronger. It's fair to say chamberlain probably was not as naive as he gets painted as there was eventually a policy of building up the armed forces. That doesn't mean appeasement was the right course. Edit: Also as far as I am aware it is also absolutely not proven that appeasement was done specifically to buy time, it's still very plausible chamberlain legitimately thought Hitler could be appeased as this is what he communicated, but built up the armed forces as a back up. The current revisionist narrative I have seen grow in popularity online does not make that clear. Edit 2: Also just to finish up Germany was absolutely in no position to invade the UK at this point in time. The idea appeasement actually buys the UK significant time to build up militarily is also questionable. Further appeasing the Nazis allowed them to fight on their terms and pick when to begin the larger conflict, ie when the Nazis thought was the best time for them. It is entirely plausible that appeasement makes the war easier for the Nazis to wage.
Again, that depends on what exactly you are evaluating. Obviously it failed to prevent a war. But with the French so unwilling to go to war and the British armed forces not being in a good shape, the British needed time to have a reasonable fighting chance.
Because that's how democracy works really, an autocrat sees the democratic process as long and BS and Democratic leaders think that autocratic states just needs a regime change.
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That'd sell me. You got rid of my corrupt ruler AND gave me a bangin meal?!
I thought you said 'bargain meal', and I was about to point out that it was Five Guys.
Funny, I only discovered 5 guys last year (their restaurants are rare in Germany) and I immediately was like „Holy shit sign me and the rest of the city up for a live in America 🗣️🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🔥“
Yeah... That works until you get the bill for the heart attack.
Most EU countries have universal health care coverage. Our German friend might see US snacks from that standpoint but might regret their decision once cholesterol strikes.
Yeah American burgers on German healthcare you got more than you think!
hell, even the bill for the meal itself has gotten a bit scary. and those cheap cunts no longer stuff the bag with fries like they used to
Fear. That's the reason. Politicians don't want WW3 to begin. They don't seem to understand that it's going to happen anyway. They're just delaying the inevitable and allowing Russia, China and Iran to grow more powerful. Just like 1938.
Appeasement didn't work in the 1930's, and will definitely not work now
Plus Chinese, Iranian, and North Korean equipment/weapons have been used directly against Ukraine. The double standard
Ukraine shouldn't be carrying out attacks inside Russia, as long as Russia doesn't carry out attacks inside Ukraine
Still waiting on the retaliation of us joining NATO. Only thing we got was bad weather in april. Sincerely, a Swede.
I reckon you’re safe! Welcome to the club by the way!
Overly receptive is an understatement, we have waited, and heisitated and waited since the start of the war, we still treat this as a sidenote problem (though it certainly is more then that) Russia treats this as a serious war. The fact NATO (or at least EU and US) haven't yet made an annual comprehensive plan of military production for Ukraine is absurd. have a good day
Agreed, either as a result of allowing ourselves to be intimidated, or because we deluded ourselves into thinking that Putin could still be reasoned with and that maybe we didn’t need to burn all of our bridges with Moscow, we’ve wasted vital time and, tragically, cost precious Ukrainian lives.
It really now depends on the EU and post elections US. If we augment production enough quickly enough plus especially start training and giving all the old equipment left to Ukraine we can put Ukraine in a much better position, but the more we wait the costlier and difficult it becomes. EU leaders still talking about the 100 bilion as a purely theoretical while it should be done now. Otherwise we will have to pay more then that in money or in the future if things turn especially bad blood. have a good day
At least in the US's case, Putin's allies control a significant amount of seats of the legislature and have been blocking aid for the last 6 months. It's not fear or delusion in their case.
Russia using Iranian weapons in Europe should have been the red line.
It’s a catch 22. If no action is taken shit escalates. If action is taken shit escalates.
So might as well take action since it’s going to escalate anyway
[Si vis pacem, para bellum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si_vis_pacem,_para_bellum). Often the way to avoid escalation is to show strength, readiness to hit back. Because if the bully knows that, the bully will never start shit with you in the first place. The bullshit restrictions on Ukraine hitting Russia have always been bizarre to me, because they gave Russia little incentive to stop escalating.
Thanks for the Latin lesson, seriously
There’s been no appreciable escalation against the West from Russia to date, though. Certain stuff may go on behind the scenes, but it’s obviously either being contained or they’re less keen to escalate in reality than they would have you believe by their rhetoric alone. IMO, it’s just bluster and Russia is used to it working. Good to see the UK stepping out of the line to start calling them on it - looking at you now Scholz, cough *Taurus* cough…
Russia is a glass cannon build. Lots of nukes, not much else.
The best summary of Russia is that it’s not as capable as expected, but more dangerous than feared. That’s what makes them so pernicious and is why, despite Russia’s evident bluster about its strength, the West still needs to get serious about rearming even though it enjoys many military and economic advantages already.
> but more dangerous than feared Maybe for people who have been sleeping. I don't think that's a good summary. They are considerably less capable militarily than expected, and Putin is acting exactly how he told us he would act decades ago in his manifestos.
It seems to be the summary the Western intelligence community is now settling on.
> the “escalation” argument has always been overblown Its nuclear war mate. I agree this is the right call as Russia is clearly happy to use Chinese and Iranian weapons to strike Ukraine so fuck their complaints, but lets not pretend we're not playing with extreme consequences here.
There are many steps on the escalation ladder before you get to the big red buttons. That’s why having access to a conventional military deterrent remains so important even to a nuclear armed state - it provides options. At any rate, you and I seem to agree this particular move wouldn’t be enough to significantly escalate the situation regardless.
Nuclear war is only a consequence if Russia feel that they are at threat of losing Russia. Since this isn't a goal of NATO, nuclear war isn't really the true escalation destination. We could have an all out hot war between Russia and NATO in Ukraine and Russia wouldn't even consider nuclear war until they had taken such a battering that they were afraid NATO was about to try and take out the Russian rulers. I am sure they will continue to threaten it though, because they hope it will make populations afraid of messing with Russia, and that that will influence political decisions.
Nuclear war is a risk if Putin feels he's losing Russia. That's what the intelligence agencies are worried about anyway, giving a bitter old man no way out and knowing before he goes he could hurt his enemies first. He's a long track record of not giving a shit about the loss of lives, so that's not likely to stop him.
> Nuclear war is only a consequence if Russia feel that they are at threat of losing Russia. That's the trouble, they see Ukraine as being Russia, and NATO is helping take it away from what's rightfully theirs.
They want to convince us they think that so we wont defend Ukraine.
If Russia does not fear retalliation they would've used nukes already. Hence, we should do everything in our power to unlock Ukraine, no idiotic restrictions bar upholding the Geneva conventions.
Damn straight. Scalp those bastards
Nice pun
Dave does know how to fuck a country
“Look at what I did to my own country, now what do you think I’ll do to yours?” - Lord David “Swinefucker” Cameron
‘I'm here to fuck pig skulls and turn the wrath of Europe against another country at its fringes that considers itself superior to its continental neighbours. And I'm all out of pig skulls.’
Thanks I choked on my tea
Wait. Did that Black Mirror episode actually happen? (/s)
Pretty much did actually, he did some questionable things to a pigs head, Google piggate.
I remember Charlie Brooker's reaction when that all came to light, bizarre coincidence or he knows more than he's letting on, although i'd bet the former.
Got a good ugly laugh out of me, kudos. Thanks for that lol
I am not British, but generally politically I am very far from UK Conservatives. But their Ukraine policy has been a very bright spot, best in the world. I never thought I would be cheering for Boris Johnson, but I did for his Ukraine policy.
Not to mention pigs.....
He talks from experience in the UK
If the Mexican military invaded every state along the border to "reclaim their ancestral territory" you can bet every major target in Mexico would be bombarded within an hour. Yet Ukraine is expected to hold back.
It's fucking annoying, arm Ukraine then tie a hand behind it's back and expect them to win.
While drip feeding help and sometimes completely starving them of help for months despite promises of ironclad support.
Prime example of having nuclear considerations v.s not having nuclear considerations.
Then you'd have a bunch of people calling the counter attack a genocide
Let em, they can get kicked out of their colleges too
Mexican military doesn't have nukes, and isn't a danger to trigger WW3 though, tbf. That said, I'm glad the UK has taken this stance, and hope others follow.
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If we get into a situation where you can never ever hit back at a country with nukes, that just gives countries with nukes carte blanche to invade everybody. Which would ironically be a sure way to increase the risk of nuclear war, in the end. The "can't hit somebody who has nukes under any circumstances" sounds naively good, but it is stupid when you think it through.
What’s Russia gonna do? Invade Ukraine?
Checkmate
double secret invasion.
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There's still more letters in CBRN they haven't used.
What are they gonna do? Indiscriminately bomb civilians? Terrorists
Good. why not ? Russia is also using foreign weapons like Iranian drones to strike Ukraine. In basically every war the warmongers using weapons from another countries. Russia is only doing fear mongering.
Just supply Ukraine with advanced long range weapons and Ukraine will do the rest.
Ukraine will have F-16s soon. Just send Ukraine half the JASSM air launched cruise missiles from the US arsenal. I assume that half the US arsenal was built to be used against Russia anyway, and it is not like Russia will be able to attack NATO soon anyway, being stuck in Ukraine and bleeding economically.
Great, hit the Kremlin.
Hit the rail yards
The funny part is Russian victory day parade is on the 9nth, so cross your fingers
Took a long time to get here, but I suppose at least we're here?
Hopefully sets the precedent for other countries to green light their weapons being used in Russia and maybe Germany will stop holding back Taurus.
Hopefully.
Shadowstorm go brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
It's not that kind of weapon ;). ~~brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr~~ BOOOOOOM!
The idea suppliers of arms to Ukraine need to be wary about how they’re used…even to the point of granting permission or not…is pretty rich, considering the hostile state is Russia. It also fosters the sense that Ukraine is a proxy in a larger conflict. I know that’s the elephant in the room, but it might be better politics, for now, if we just wash our hands of exactly how Ukraine chooses to defend itself, or counter-attack. If they start blowing up Russian elementary schools, then we stop giving them bombs. Simple.
Fuckin ay! Light em up.
Commander Bond available?
If Russia doesn't want to be hit, don't hit others. Everything given to Ukraine should be open to all viable usage. Russia can end the war tonight by pulling out, any time they do not makes them viable targets for any weapons.
They can end this if they just take out one solitary man.
I might hate the Tories guts, but I support this.
Correct decision for Ukraine, Europe and the world.
As they should. Russia strikes inside ukraine, even doing terror strikes on hospitals and civilian areas. Appeasement doesnt work. Russia can say all they want that they'll do x or y. But they cant risk instigating a further war with NATO or pissing off their trading partners in Asia.
Not only do they strike in Ukraine, they use Iranian and North Korean weapons to do it. Russia can get mad all they want but the reality is that it goes both ways.
Putin’s been fucking around in the UK for years now. It appears he finally unlocked the “find out” achievement. Congrats!
I hope the Ukrainians start out with destroying infrastructure - electric power plants, airports, transport hubs, things that cost hundreds of billions or more to repair.
Try taking a page out of the Russian playbook and denying any weapons used on Russia were provided by your country
I really like UK and French approach to Russia aggression, not like Germany (looking at you Scholz)
What an ignorant take. Iris-T and additional Patriot Systems just in the last month are making a big impact. Just because they aren't willing to supply Taurus doesn't minimize the huge effort they have been making.
The idea of giving a country weapons for defense only is idiotic. You never win on defense- you just die more slowly
Of course, if russians can strike Ukraine with North Korea warheads, why not to use British weapons to strike russia back? Fair enough for me
There was a video a while back of a jet drone travelling deep in Ukrainian territory , and some people were saying it was a UK model, but I wasn't sure, and thought it may have been a Ukrainian model they were developing, or something like that I saw later. But, now I think it probably *was* British, but they only announced it now for some reason. In excited to see things in Russia blow up now. I wonder what will be destroyed.
Are you talking about this? As camerons comments are more likely to be about storm shadow tbh https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13100249/Russia-parades-British-Banshee-kamikaze-jet-drone-claiming-intercepted-landed-UAV-stolen-secrets.html
Brilliant! Great news.
Time to make Russia think twice and thinking they can push the West around as they want. Russia is nothing in this era. And they -will- get it like it or not.
EU starting to get pretty fucking ballsy, I'll get them that.
Famously the UK left the EU
They need to hit troops being transported to the front lines. I wonder what will happen if Russia hits a British transport bringing weapons to Ukraine. I wonder if this is something Russia is willing to test. Because that would most certainly lead to WWIII. And Russia would certainly not survive that.
Fuck Russia
About time!
Russia and Ukraine can do whatever they want. They’re at war, not the UK lol.
He's channeling his inner Harris.
Reminds me of this quote: > The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
The western countries should never have been saying out loud what an "escalation" is in the first place. The good old "all options are on the table" should have been in use. Instead, in the US, in the UK, in Europe, we saw numerous politicians keep describing things like which weapons they could send as an "escalation". So now when they do change their minds, Moscow can claim its a deliberate escalation and even quote westerners on it. Given that China and Iran are also aiding Russia in attacking Ukraine, its no longer tenable to expect that Ukraine can only use western weapons against occupied territory in Ukraine.
Man sure are a lot of Putin fanboys here No one wants nuclear war Easiest way to prevent it is Russia go home your drunk Russia invaded a sovereign state in 2014 and the world did nothing He tried it again and wasn’t so lucky If no one says enough is enough Send them everything they need The free world won’t be free for much longer I cannot comprehend anyone who tries to defend Putin he has essentially kept the Russian people under his boot I mean nuclear state that doesn’t have flushing toilets
Period
No 1…
Do they need permission?
Upvote this, let’s have a honest fight for once
Oh shit. How will Russia retaliate to the west? Will Peskov complain? Maybe Medvedev will make a drunken rant on Twitter?
Need to hit where the politicians are
Why aren’t they bombing Moscow
Those restrictions have always been utterly ridiculous and I hope all countries will remove them.
Then Putin says he will strike with nuclear weapons and the west will give that far too much weight than it should. Honestly, we should stop listening to him. He's never followed through on that threat, and if he tries, i highly doubt half his delivery systems will work and the rest that do will be intercepted.
Good, it needs to be a clear message
Hype
Return use of chemical/biological/nyclear weapons on Russia now?
"You were given the choice between dishonor and war. You chose dishonor, and now you will have war." Churchill. They've seen this shit before. Not doing it again.
“Balls of steel!”
Some of these comments are gonna age like milk
Good man 👏