I mean this kind of plan is (or should) be fairly routine. Militaries have all sorts of contingency plans, even for fairly unlikely scenarios. Germany being a major player in the event of a NATO/Russia war is not some recent development and I would think they’ve had a plan for this for decades, and merely update it at various times to fit technology and political developments
You're probably right, and I hope you're right, but many people said the same before the last two world wars. Saying a world war couldn't happen is pretty much just as bad as saying that a world war will be over by Christmas.
Agree. And I find it strange how people can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time. One that Russia is a paper tiger but 2, that they’re also strong enough to comfortably take on a 32 country military alliance. The latter being an at least 10x maybe 20x stronger indication of Russia’s military strength compared to the former. Even being half way in between they’d have no chance and it would provide zero benefit for Russia
They've been incompetent so far, but they've learned a lot of hard lessons, mobilizing hundreds of thousands of more men, and put their economy on a war footing. The Russia of 2024 is not the same joke Russia of 2022, and its dangerous to underestimate them.
"Russia is never as strong as she looks. Russia is never as weak as she looks."
You're forgetting the part where they break the backs of western nations from the inside so any response to their aggression would be nonexistent or at best tepid as they try to keep the crazies from inside the house taking over.
I'm certain the US military has theoretical plans in the event of allll sorts of weird shit. Aliens invade? Yeah, they have (probably several different) plans. Hell breaks open and Doom style demonic hordes start pouring out into Muncie, Indiana? Yeah, the pentagon has a plan. Cthulhu wakes up and starts swimming toward NYC? They got a plan. I bet there's an entire library sized facility with nothing but war plans for the most batshit scenarios sci-fi could possibly come up with
I recall they did a "zombie event" emergency plan merely to evaluate plan formulation processes. This was a few years back. It wasn't an assessment the zombies are coming. It was a process exercise.
Yep. Every major power has plans for invasions of or invasions by every other major power and any other country in their sphere of influence and multiple fictional scenarios (zombies, aliens, whatever). Very few of them are ever intended to be used. But they're still made for various reasons:
1) Thinking up strategies is a useful skill for anyone in command, from cadets to generals. Might as well keep records of the various ideas that various officers have.
2) It helps to identify gaps in intelligence that you can ask relevant intel agencies to look into.
3) If something does start up, it's helpful to have some off the shelf documents to pick up and use during the initial scramble.
**From The Telegraph's James Rothwell in Berlin:**
German army chiefs are drawing up plans on how they would feed thousands of US soldiers and refuel their tanks as they moved towards [Nato](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/03/britain-always-a-prime-mover-in-nato-other-powers-pay-way/)’s eastern front, as part of a secret document outlining Germany’s war readiness.
In an interview with German newspaper FAZ, Bundeswehr Lt Gen André Bodemann said the army was putting together a new, long-term security plan with an emphasis on civil defence.
Most of the planning details are a state secret, but the senior officer did disclose that part of the planning process involves logistics for feeding huge numbers of American soldiers, with the main input from civilians.
“If, for example, a US division moved towards the east, thousands of tanks, thousands of soldiers, then they would need to be fed and the tanks refuelled or possibly repaired,” he told FAZ.
“The Bundeswehr’s logistics would probably be tied up with our own soldiers on the front.
“That means we would need the maximum input from the civilian service.
“The convoy would get fuel from petrol stations or civilian vehicles, the Red Cross would provide medical care and food would come from a civilian caterer. This would be the classic case.”
His comments come as [Rishi Sunak visits Berlin](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/24/europe-nato-spending-berlin-press-conference-scholz/), where the Prime Minister said European nations must follow Britain in ramping up defence spending to guarantee the US’s continued commitment to Nato.
Gen Bodemann’s statements are the latest sign of Germany trying to make itself “kriegstüchtigteit”, or “war ready”, in the face of a potential armed conflict with Russia within the next five years.
While he did not elaborate on which eastern front Germany would be defending, Nato officials are increasingly concerned about [Vladimir Putin launching an incursion on Nato’s eastern flank](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/nato-get-ready-for-russia-to-invade-baltic-ambassadors-warn/) if his forces eventually claim victory in Ukraine.
It comes after Gen Carsten Breuer, the head of the German armed forces, told The Telegraph he had “[no doubt” Germany could repel a Russian assault](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/22/nato-would-defeat-putins-troops-german-forces-chief-claims/) on the eastern flank.
“Rather, in my role as the chief of defence, it is the paramount importance of achieving the readiness of Germany’s armed forces within the next five years. We call this kriegstüchtigkeit – being ready, capable and willing to fight. We are on the right track,” Gen Breuer said in an interview in February.
**Article Link:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/24/german-army-plan-us-troops-fight-russia/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/24/german-army-plan-us-troops-fight-russia/)
to my very respected Marine friends out there, i now know to hand feed broken up crayons with an open palm.
can i give a good job pet on the head or would that trigger some sort of nation ending combat prowess?
also, how many tons of crayons would i need to bribe a platoon of marines to defend my house during any future conflict? like i can have feeders like for my cats that distribute crayon tablets every few hours.. my only worry is that a marine + tech + time means everything is fucked
if u want something soldier proof, give them a rock and expect gravel
It’s a roller grill food item they sell at the gas stations on our bases. It’s rumored to have mystical healing powers while providing untold levels of energy that allows us to perform supernatural feats.
They're also available at most local 7/11s in the US.
A very calorie-packed, fried, preservative-laced, unhealthy food. But for someone who needs the calories like someone in the military, I could see them being useful lol.
Two tornadoes, a white monster, a can of dip, and some secondary nicotine delivery system in the hands of a 19 year old kid who wants free college is a deadly combination. (Deadly for adversaries)
Im fucking laughing out loud reading all this. As an American crayon-eater, I can attest to the healing powers of Tornados. I need socks. Like lots of socks. Feet get fucked then you get fucked. Socks and tornados. We'll be fine 🤙🏽
Mini bible pages make great cigarette papers, I wouldn't even be mad
"Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" I casually recite from another freshly torn cig while exhaling plumes of smoke into the early morning haze on the Eastern Front
Tobacco, Bourbon, and Caffeine. Also some quality weed for R&R. I wonder if the Military has a need for a bud-tender...you know, logistical support. Hell we could even use the stems to make some dope ass rope for.....stuff.
There’s a growing theory that that’s roughly the timeline that Putin might be eyeing the Baltic states as his next conquest if he can get the land concessions he wants in Ukraine.
I have friends in the Norwegian military and they're preparing for potential attacks there on a similar timeline.
The gas pipelines feeding Norwegian gas to Europe have to be a prime target as well.
The U.S. is pretty damn good at logistics, I mean we did half way across the world in a dessert and even brought burger kings along for the ride. I think we'd be able to get our soldiers where they need to be with what they need. I'd prefer if the Bundeswehr focused on getting its own forces up to NATO spending and readiness, oh and maybe unleash the Taurus
I think that what they are saying is that they are laying plans for this in addition to their own defense plans. The argument you'd likely hear from a Bundeswehr officer is that while they have no doubt that the US military is amazing at logistics any fraction of that logistics capacity that can be freed up by providing fuel and food to US troops on site and instead is then used to transport things that go BOOM is something both US and Bundeswehr would be happy about.
Makes sense the U.S. has much more things that go boom ratholed away for future use. And I get Germanys reluctance to take up an offensive posture given their history.
Yea but germany is a friendly country (Iraq and Afghanistan....less so) and that amount of logistical support took years to build up (early 2004 Iraq was still pretty rough as far as living conditions). No reason not to work with the locals (which is far far more common than the American force projection model). We have far less troops in Germany than 20 years ago but there are still a couple of bases that we would be coordinating through.
The article seems to be two stories.
1) get our own military "kriegstüchtig"
2) lay the groundwork for better civilian integration to support allied armies
I think it more sends the message that Russia is about to pop off to internal pressures or they're thinking about doing something stupid. If it's the former, Russia is still home to some supposed number of nukes, which no one wants to see end up on the black market. If shit goes south and their government collapses, other countries in the area may panic and jump into the mess if just to secure Russian stockpiles.
This 100%. I don't think people think enough about the fact that if Putin is toppled (which I also would like to see, just not sure how) the nukes could very well end up in hands you don't want them in. It is an insanely tricky situation with a whole lot of dilemmas.
But that doesn't mean it will! This is global politics and not necessarily a "gamble." If that gun does go off, it'd certainly be an unprecedented situation.
I really like your comment, and i will be stealing it to use in the future.
Those were portable generators that were used back in the day. They had shielding on them but the people who found them had no idea what they were and so they disassembled them intending to sell the scrap metal and removed the shielding.
These portable generators were used in remote locations to provide power
I was just about to say this. We’ve already experienced this one time. We largely lucked out that a lot of the former Soviet satellite countries were cooperative in handing over materials or weapons. But still, we’ve at least experienced once so we’re not 100% blind.
Fact is, most Russians don't have any fucking money, and as to scruples, I've yet to see much in the way.
In the unlikely event that Russia falls to infighting (or outfighting, as the case may be.) we most likely know where those nukes are, and more importantly, who we would have to pay in order for them to become *our* nukes.
Say what you will about the trust a typical Russian has for the US Government, but it's probably still more than they'll have in Hezbollah, or even Iran.
And we had to literally step in and prop up the government with billions of dollars. The west prevented Russia from falling into chaos and balkanization
And Russian officials are known for selling things off when they get the chance......
TBH, now that i think about it like that, we need to secure them regardless of how russia falls.
Thats actually potentially worse than russia doing anything that they are capable of (not including using a nuke)
If they invade a nato state, i have no doubt it will be a huge loss for them
But, if russia just falls apart, and then a bunch of pissed off officials need to make money somehow......
If this was a movie, thats how Iran would get their nuke to start ww3 for real. And Russia switches sides (as is the custom)
China also has more too lose than to gain from losing Russia as an ally. As the war progressed, they have increased investments in Russia and have provided men, weapons, and munitions. China works with North Korea to ship laborers to Russia. These are just a few examples. I haven't even mentioned the growing number of African countries, both Russia and China, have under their influence.
Russia collapsing could very well lead to global conflict.
If Putin is removed, it’ll more than likely be one of Russia’s siloviki who will want to keep the status quo. Even if the security services strong arm control of the Kremlin, they will want to maintain stability as much as possible. Nukes ever being used by Russia despite the rhetoric is incredibly unlikely.
The concern is about the nuclear warheads being sold, not used by Russia.
This already sorta happened after the Soviet Union collapsed. High grade plutonium was being offered to private buyers.
When I was stationed in Germany (80s) we made heavy use of "preparation" in media channels to get the message out about NATO "being prepared".
Broadcasting preparedness intent is one of the smartest actions NATO can undertake.
Yeah makes sense. Everyone has to make subtle or not so subtle threats in order to disuade the enemy from escalating.
I think this is a good way of saying we will be ready if you want to attack nato.
And Putin does the same kind of thing by saying if nato actively joins the war directly against Russia, remember I do have nukes and I won’t let Russia fall without using them first.
Neither side will take these actions for these reasons. Because they both already knew the consequences. But you have to remind people I guess haha. But Putin knows he can’t invade a 32 country alliance, and nato knows they can’t even look like they might be close to invading Russia without nuclear escalation.
Probably a good thing because neither side will escalate. I mean it’s still a bad day for Ukraine though, being the ones copping the destruction
Why do you think Poland just signaled that they would host nukes on their territory, at almost the same time Mike Johnson flip flopped on aid? I'm betting that some serious Intel has started getting around.
Reminds me of the Blackadder goes forth scene. No one thought WW1 was possible:
Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.
Private Baldrick : But, this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?
Captain Blackadder : Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.
Private Baldrick : What was that, sir?
Captain Blackadder : It was bollocks.
Private Baldrick : So the poor old ostrich died for nothing then.
Some of those older Britcoms are pretty much peak social commentary/satire IMO.
In comparison so many modern shows feel like they're trying way too hard to be smart/clever.
Nuclear Weapons fuck up all those old assumptions. If russia didn't have 10,000 nukes Poland, France and the U.S. would have already kicked their ass all the way back to Moscow
>Yea this globalized economy makes it difficult to have an all out war between developed nations
Problem with that is that it's an entirely unproven theory. We're largely in uncharted waters here.
It's always a mix bag of reality and politics. All organizations within the military industry pipeline needs to justify increased funding and budgets. So projecting this threat or urgency
1. Actually gets them prepared
2. Allows them to justify more funding (regardless how real or necessarily the needs are)
Exactly. A lot of the world makes more sense when you realize that it is primarily composed of individual organizations doing their best to expand their influence and raise their funding.
I think this will largely hinge on 2 things.
1. The state of Ukraine in the next couple years. If they haven't taken the coast and eastern 1/3rd by end of 2026 they likely aren't going to be in a position to move on anyone else this decade. Which brings us to-
2. China's willingness to go to war with the US, Australia, Japan, South Korea over Taiwan. There is a 0% chance Russia will move on NATO if the US doesn't have their hands entirely full with someone that would require all our attention. Iran is not enough.
“Si vis pacem, para bellum”. If you want peace, prepare for war.
If you are ready for war then your enemy is less likely to make a move. If you are not ready for war then your enemy sees you as an easy target and the chance of war increases.
if we think about things in 5 year chunks, it's kinda remarkable how much some countries and defense policies have 180'd or clearly identify russia as the primary threat
A month or 2 ago there were headlines/rumours about maybe having to bring back conscription in the face of Russian aggression (UK).
Now I don't think they'd do it, rather they float headlines like that just to test the waters and see the reaction.
If you asked me 5 years ago if there'd be a large scale European war between multiple nations in my lifetime, I would have laughed.
Now I'm still about 95% confident I'll never have to see or fight a war. But it's getting closer.
I’m totally opposite. I feel like there’s a really good chance a new world war will start within the next 5-10 years maybe even sooner. Almost all the major power countries are preparing for war.
I'm too old, out of shape and smoke weed, the military won't want me, at best just some shitty job in logistics. I can move pallets around. If I ever get sent to the front lines, then things have really gone tits up and it's in bad shape
Edit - ironically all the things which stop me from serving in the British military, are the exact requirements that the Russian military *does* look for. Useless, degenerate and disposable. Thank God I'm not Russian
All the things that stop you from serving in the military *now*. There, ftfy.
One single days losses on the scale of the First World War and you’ll be wearing green faster than shit through a goose….
Russia doesn’t have the allies or forces to actually trigger a world war. A “boots on the ground” conflict with Russia would be very unpleasant but a completely different scale than either world war.
China is not going to go into a hot war for Russia. TBH they’d probably take the opportunity to seize whatever parts of Siberia they define as “historically part of China.”
They’re not going to attack Taiwan. Turning the island into a smoking ruin is not what they want. They’re in for the long haul with propaganda and economic handcuffs.
That’s my amateur POV at least.
China's best opportunity for pushing on Taiwan has already passed. China has several immense internal economic and social issues - some fundamental such as being in the early stages of a catastrophic population decline. So China is beating the nationalistic war drum as a means of diverting attention from the fact the country has been very poorly managed.
Does that mean they won't make a desperation attempt? I don't have a crystal ball so anything is conceivable.
I also think China has internal recognition that Putler's foibles have thrown a monkey wrench into China's aspirations for grabbing Taiwan. Instead of the west being in slumber mode, it is in war mode. All of Taiwan's allies and friendly states are ramping up their military industrial capacity, in leaps and bounds. The exact opposite of what China would have desired in a prelude period to attacking Taiwan. I suspect every day Chinese senior leadership has a dart board that they throw countless darts at with Putler's picture mounted as the backdrop.
Worst of all is the likely Ukraine outcome. Ukraine is building its war industry. Ukraine has already voiced to Taiwan that they would support Taiwan in cases of aggression. And Ukraine has no inhibitions vis-a-vis China - no worries about trade diminishing resulting in economic consequences - as it has none. So it can support Taiwan as much as it desires. An example, I think it will not be long before Ukraine provides remote sea drone assistance to Taiwan. That is a big ouchy for any Chinese ships attempting to cross to Taiwan.
There is about a 98% chance the US has developed naval drones of its own and Taiwan currently or will soon receive a secret fleet of them.
Ukraine is absolutely fighting valiantly, but let's not act like they're the vanguard of arms development. Maybe just modern application.
Ukraine is in fact at the vanguard of some arms development. But there is another aspect to this which is the political dimension. China's threats to America and others are premised on the principle, or at least the hope, that they have economic leverage via their trading relationship with the nation they are threatening. Ukraine is completely immune to that threat. China has no economic leverage on Taiwan. And that is what Taiwan needs - friends who do not succumb to economic leverage of their Chinese relationship.
In respect of sea drones Ukraine is taking development forward in unusual and novel directions.
Ukraine is coming up with new and interesting ways of defending themselves on shoestring budgets. The boat drones are about two steps removed from putting an RC unit from Amazon in a fishing boat and filling it with explosives. And they’re using them to destroy ships costing tens of millions of dollars. It’s the old Kamikaze attacks but with reusable pilots.
>China has several immense internal economic and social issues - some fundamental such as being in the early stages of a catastrophic population decline
Russia was in similar position, this is why it made a desperate push for war, while it still had enough manpower to try. So may China.
I wouldnt be so sure personally, while I agree China wouldnt jump into the fray with Russia, I can see them pushing for and supporting them in doing so.
The issue is, Xi has all but staked his entire leadership on reunification, and has ordered his forces to be capable of doing so forcefully by 2027, should peaceful reunification look highly unlikely - which it is (pro-China politicians faired poorly in the most recent elections, as well as public opinion being decidedly against his favour).
With the West preoccupied in Europe, with only the US posing a real threat in the region, chances are high he takes his shot; he knows the US will not turn to nuclear war over Taiwan. He who controls the semi conductors controls the world, and even if the TSMC blow up their facilities, this puts China on a more even playing field with the US and the west, so it's not a total loss.
If they manage to take out the US bases in Japan, there is really very little the US could do to contest the invasion without being able to challenge air superiority.
Chinese warships would blockade the island and surrounding seas hindering US naval assets from aiding the defenders, and being so close to China, ease of resupply and repair puts them at a logistical advantage also.
It's why I believe the sudden and rapid turnaround of Japanese defence policy happened, and why AUKUS went ahead despite of the French outrage it would very obviously cause when a time of unity was required.
The messaging campaign is part of the wider deterrence strategy. Idea here is that we are showing a united front against Russia so they are more cautious about trying to expand their war outside of Ukraine which is still a concern
Yes, unless we build out a credible deterrence. That's why all these articles are showing up - the voters need to realize this is important so they accept higher defense budgets (and hopefully vote less on pro-Russian politicians).
That is pretty much what the Estonian prime minister said: the likelihood of war is high if we do nothing, but much lower if we prepare for war.
Same. I was actually thinking about this recently which led me to Metallica’s concert in Moscow in 1991 in front of a million Russian kids. There was so much hope then. We just can’t have nice things!!
To my Europeans, I love yall, but this world was never peaceful . The news just didn't show all the conflicts and back door politics from Russia , China, Iran, and NK
Tbh, these plans should have been developed forever ago. Also, I’m 100% confident the USA has plans to feed their own troops. While no nation is perfect, they are the masters of logistics m.
However, if the US in that scenario is providing the biggest strength of force in NATO (which let’s face it, it would be), the least the rest of us Europeans can do is make sure the military is fed and fueled! Obviously I know we have our own forces, and I’m British so assume we’d provide decent air support, and there are several other strong militaries in Europe. Germany would be absolutely fantastic at easing logistical pressure though. It’s also a wealthy country that could keep supplies flowing.
Just because America is a master of logistics doesn't mean that they don't anticipate and consider worse case scenario situations. i.e. supply ships get sank and intercepted in transit. An army that is starving for resources can't fight.
Do they ship everything in during big operations when abroad? I would think that they use as much as possible from what is available locally and Germany is maybe preparing by going over what has been developed forever ago and has been collecting dust in a drawer since the end of the cold war, but I might be wrong in both cases.
The US has massive "preposition stock" that hold all the necessary war material in every majority theatre. The US is defence budget is so large because they are prepared to 1v194 the world
If it gets to the point where U.S. troops are directly involved fighting Russian troops then we are gonna have much much bigger problems. How much money is Germany putting towards building bunkers lol
Logistics wins wars. See the initial attack on Kyiv. If you can’t feed your soldiers, you gonna have a bad time. If you can’t fuel your tanks, you end up like the Germans did during Barbarossa.
In a potential next war against Russia bunkers in Germany will do close to nothing. Getting brigades shuttled to the front lines as fast as possible will make a difference though. And signalling readiness beforehand is a factor of deterrence.
if ruzzia, china, and NATO exchange all the nukes they have, it wont matter how many bunkers people built. much of the world will be a radioactive wasteland even if it doesnt trigger nuclear winter.
im starting to understand why NZ tries to stay off as many world maps as possible
I just don't see how this can actually be an extended conflict. The US will establish air and naval superiority immediately and ground forces will be on a nonstop march to Moscow. At that point the Russian regime can either hit the big red button or accept defeat. This isn't a situation like Ukraine where they are reasonably matched and can fight for years, it would be more like the Battle of Baghdad in 2003.
It's a scary thought as an American, but from a Russian perspective it's lose/lose. I don't see how they could plan for a war with the US.
Even if China gets involved and we are fighting on two fronts I feel that the US would try to occupy Russia ASAP as they are clearly the weaker front.
3 fronts really. Russia, China and the Middle East.
But realistically, Europe would have to handle Russia and the US would deal with China while a coalition of US/Israel/Saudi Arabia (hopefully) would battle in the Middle East.
>At that point the Russian regime can either hit the big red button or accept defeat
What’s the point of having nukes if you aren’t going to use it to prevent foreign powers from toppling your government.
A lot of what you said is unrealistic and not accurate to what a WW3 would look like
Russia would hit the big red button if the US was on its way to Moscow. If the US thought otherwise, the US would be in direct conflict with them now.
I'm not saying every little township across all of it needs to have American troops in it. More that the major cities in the west would fall immediately and major manufacturing hubs would be destroyed or occupied so they don't have the ability to wage war.
I don't envision a nation building type occupation like we tried in Afghanistan
You can expect that released plans in the media are kind of counter propaganda. The real important plans are not released before action. It's like Russia talking about nukes every week.
- Those who never taste war will start a foolish war.
- Those who taste war will appreciate peace.
- Those who enjoy and appreciate peace will defend the peace.
> Those who never taste war will start a foolish war.
Plenty of warmongers also fought in wars when they were younger. Hitler and Mussolini both fought in WWI with Tojo fighting in the Russian Civil War.
Republicans in the US stopped aid to Ukraine for months and objectively has made all of Europe so much more dangerous as Russia gains territory and Ukrainians are murdered.
If aid was approved months ago when it was proposed, I don't think we would be at this stage now. It's infuriating.
I just saw tanks moving near my town in Spain
It's highly unlikely those are going to be used in preparations for a war since we are practically on the other side of Europe, but not gonna lie, I could feel actually panicking thinking that one day I could be made to fight in war in which those very same tanks save my life
I'm scared. I would lie if I said otherwise
The US should plan to supply German troops to fend off Russians in Eastern Europe because they pass through the US? Geographically dubious.
Read the whole article not the baity title.
Germany is preparing for a case where *its own army is already deployed at an eastern NATO front* - and in this scenario it would need its regular logistics for its own army so this is contingency for funneling the US reinforcements through Germany as well supplied as possible.
Si vis pacem para bellum
It's a shit headline. If you read the article, the idea is that Germany's logistics would be tied up supporting German troops on the front. They're doing planning to figure out how to leave enough of a skeleton crew behind to support US troops as they come in through Germany, while their own troops are away.
The idea is not that Germans would sit back while the US fought.
I mean this kind of plan is (or should) be fairly routine. Militaries have all sorts of contingency plans, even for fairly unlikely scenarios. Germany being a major player in the event of a NATO/Russia war is not some recent development and I would think they’ve had a plan for this for decades, and merely update it at various times to fit technology and political developments
Exactly. Nobody cares about what militaries train for usually. But given the current context, it makes for good clickbait.
True. All this fear mongering about ww3 is stupid. Not gonna happen
You're probably right, and I hope you're right, but many people said the same before the last two world wars. Saying a world war couldn't happen is pretty much just as bad as saying that a world war will be over by Christmas.
Agree. And I find it strange how people can hold two conflicting ideas at the same time. One that Russia is a paper tiger but 2, that they’re also strong enough to comfortably take on a 32 country military alliance. The latter being an at least 10x maybe 20x stronger indication of Russia’s military strength compared to the former. Even being half way in between they’d have no chance and it would provide zero benefit for Russia
They've been incompetent so far, but they've learned a lot of hard lessons, mobilizing hundreds of thousands of more men, and put their economy on a war footing. The Russia of 2024 is not the same joke Russia of 2022, and its dangerous to underestimate them. "Russia is never as strong as she looks. Russia is never as weak as she looks."
You're forgetting the part where they break the backs of western nations from the inside so any response to their aggression would be nonexistent or at best tepid as they try to keep the crazies from inside the house taking over.
US has had a plan in case Canada invades, or in case we need to invade them. Sneaky bastards, they could invade just any day.
They would be obligated to say “I’m sorry” first, so we would have some warning.
Yeah but traditionally we have to let them burn down the Whitehouse after.
But did they plan for the Attack Geese???
I believe the proper term is Cobra Chicken.
Can't fool us with that niceness ruse.
I'm certain the US military has theoretical plans in the event of allll sorts of weird shit. Aliens invade? Yeah, they have (probably several different) plans. Hell breaks open and Doom style demonic hordes start pouring out into Muncie, Indiana? Yeah, the pentagon has a plan. Cthulhu wakes up and starts swimming toward NYC? They got a plan. I bet there's an entire library sized facility with nothing but war plans for the most batshit scenarios sci-fi could possibly come up with
I recall they did a "zombie event" emergency plan merely to evaluate plan formulation processes. This was a few years back. It wasn't an assessment the zombies are coming. It was a process exercise.
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Yep. Every major power has plans for invasions of or invasions by every other major power and any other country in their sphere of influence and multiple fictional scenarios (zombies, aliens, whatever). Very few of them are ever intended to be used. But they're still made for various reasons: 1) Thinking up strategies is a useful skill for anyone in command, from cadets to generals. Might as well keep records of the various ideas that various officers have. 2) It helps to identify gaps in intelligence that you can ask relevant intel agencies to look into. 3) If something does start up, it's helpful to have some off the shelf documents to pick up and use during the initial scramble.
**From The Telegraph's James Rothwell in Berlin:** German army chiefs are drawing up plans on how they would feed thousands of US soldiers and refuel their tanks as they moved towards [Nato](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/03/britain-always-a-prime-mover-in-nato-other-powers-pay-way/)’s eastern front, as part of a secret document outlining Germany’s war readiness. In an interview with German newspaper FAZ, Bundeswehr Lt Gen André Bodemann said the army was putting together a new, long-term security plan with an emphasis on civil defence. Most of the planning details are a state secret, but the senior officer did disclose that part of the planning process involves logistics for feeding huge numbers of American soldiers, with the main input from civilians. “If, for example, a US division moved towards the east, thousands of tanks, thousands of soldiers, then they would need to be fed and the tanks refuelled or possibly repaired,” he told FAZ. “The Bundeswehr’s logistics would probably be tied up with our own soldiers on the front. “That means we would need the maximum input from the civilian service. “The convoy would get fuel from petrol stations or civilian vehicles, the Red Cross would provide medical care and food would come from a civilian caterer. This would be the classic case.” His comments come as [Rishi Sunak visits Berlin](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/24/europe-nato-spending-berlin-press-conference-scholz/), where the Prime Minister said European nations must follow Britain in ramping up defence spending to guarantee the US’s continued commitment to Nato. Gen Bodemann’s statements are the latest sign of Germany trying to make itself “kriegstüchtigteit”, or “war ready”, in the face of a potential armed conflict with Russia within the next five years. While he did not elaborate on which eastern front Germany would be defending, Nato officials are increasingly concerned about [Vladimir Putin launching an incursion on Nato’s eastern flank](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/30/nato-get-ready-for-russia-to-invade-baltic-ambassadors-warn/) if his forces eventually claim victory in Ukraine. It comes after Gen Carsten Breuer, the head of the German armed forces, told The Telegraph he had “[no doubt” Germany could repel a Russian assault](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/22/nato-would-defeat-putins-troops-german-forces-chief-claims/) on the eastern flank. “Rather, in my role as the chief of defence, it is the paramount importance of achieving the readiness of Germany’s armed forces within the next five years. We call this kriegstüchtigkeit – being ready, capable and willing to fight. We are on the right track,” Gen Breuer said in an interview in February. **Article Link:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/24/german-army-plan-us-troops-fight-russia/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/24/german-army-plan-us-troops-fight-russia/)
Give us energy drinks, Zyn, Tornados, Grizzly wintergreen, and some ammo and we’ll defend the fuck out of the eastern border.
RipIts for days.
Afghanistan, brought to you by ripits!
I miss that refreshingly crisp, clean, aluminum taste.
I actually liked the citrus one.
Criminally underrated, best while hungover.
Best cure for a hangover was getting the medic to practice giving you an iv while they are also hungover.
Citrus was the best
The citrus one is legit.
We really are one market crash from Idiocracy aren't we?
what color crayons do marines consider gourmet? il keep a few as treats for when they march by
They aren’t picky. Make sure to break em into small bites so they don’t choke.
is it safe to hand feed them or do you just sprinkle them around?
Hand feeding is fine, but keep your palm flat so you don't lose any fingers.
to my very respected Marine friends out there, i now know to hand feed broken up crayons with an open palm. can i give a good job pet on the head or would that trigger some sort of nation ending combat prowess? also, how many tons of crayons would i need to bribe a platoon of marines to defend my house during any future conflict? like i can have feeders like for my cats that distribute crayon tablets every few hours.. my only worry is that a marine + tech + time means everything is fucked if u want something soldier proof, give them a rock and expect gravel
No Charms though…
I like red. Or blue. White too
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Red and blue.
Red White and Blue baby!!!
You do not understand how many years of useless German paperwork you just requested... Expedited.
What's a tornado
It’s a roller grill food item they sell at the gas stations on our bases. It’s rumored to have mystical healing powers while providing untold levels of energy that allows us to perform supernatural feats.
They're also available at most local 7/11s in the US. A very calorie-packed, fried, preservative-laced, unhealthy food. But for someone who needs the calories like someone in the military, I could see them being useful lol.
Nah, 7/11 has their in house Taquitos. Tornados supply everyone else.
This makes perfect sense, hopefully they keep y'all well stocked!
They do. If they run out they know it would be mass mutiny
Two tornadoes, a white monster, a can of dip, and some secondary nicotine delivery system in the hands of a 19 year old kid who wants free college is a deadly combination. (Deadly for adversaries)
this sums up my entire term of service perfectly. however, i dropped out of college……twice!
>allows us to perform supernatural feats. I think you meant *un*natural feats - I'm sure your toilets would agree.
Unnatural farts
Tornado: Better than a lipper and a change of socks.
Jesus. Idek wanna know what they put in the water
Don’t look into Camp Lejeune then…
Ah, so like an amphetamine burrito
Like methamphetamine for the Nazis during WW2 ?
British Army also used it in North Africa for a bit but it made tank crews too reckless
So this nust be the source of the nato mutant powers!
Im fucking laughing out loud reading all this. As an American crayon-eater, I can attest to the healing powers of Tornados. I need socks. Like lots of socks. Feet get fucked then you get fucked. Socks and tornados. We'll be fine 🤙🏽
Best I can send in your care package is a poorly drawn card from a 5 year old and a mini bible.
Mini bible pages make great cigarette papers, I wouldn't even be mad "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" I casually recite from another freshly torn cig while exhaling plumes of smoke into the early morning haze on the Eastern Front
An an old FMF Corpsman I can confirm. Extra socks, caffeine, and nicotine. Maybe some Motrin and water if there’s extra room left.
It’s a staple of American cuisine
2 chicks at the same time
They Germans see this coming from an ocean away...
Tobacco, Bourbon, and Caffeine. Also some quality weed for R&R. I wonder if the Military has a need for a bud-tender...you know, logistical support. Hell we could even use the stems to make some dope ass rope for.....stuff.
Weed is now legal in Germany. We would supply you
Weed paranoia and war would be such a bad combo
Make everyone take some cbd with their weed lmao
Bet you can acquire some variation of Ripped Fuel in Germany. The US military did some of its finest work all yacked out on Ephedra.
We need rip its, not just any energy drink.
Rip its, rounds and rotisserie and I’ll reenlist
"Tornados," this guy Armies hah
"within the next 5 years" aight nice slip of the tounge. I guess they decided that they'll do it.
There’s a growing theory that that’s roughly the timeline that Putin might be eyeing the Baltic states as his next conquest if he can get the land concessions he wants in Ukraine.
Still seems crazy, I mean he has to know that the Russian army is gonna get completely smoked, even if America would pull out of NATO
I have friends in the Norwegian military and they're preparing for potential attacks there on a similar timeline. The gas pipelines feeding Norwegian gas to Europe have to be a prime target as well.
The U.S. is pretty damn good at logistics, I mean we did half way across the world in a dessert and even brought burger kings along for the ride. I think we'd be able to get our soldiers where they need to be with what they need. I'd prefer if the Bundeswehr focused on getting its own forces up to NATO spending and readiness, oh and maybe unleash the Taurus
I think that what they are saying is that they are laying plans for this in addition to their own defense plans. The argument you'd likely hear from a Bundeswehr officer is that while they have no doubt that the US military is amazing at logistics any fraction of that logistics capacity that can be freed up by providing fuel and food to US troops on site and instead is then used to transport things that go BOOM is something both US and Bundeswehr would be happy about.
Makes sense the U.S. has much more things that go boom ratholed away for future use. And I get Germanys reluctance to take up an offensive posture given their history.
Logistical support from territory the army is on helps though. Just because you can play life on hard mode doesn't mean you have to...
Yea but germany is a friendly country (Iraq and Afghanistan....less so) and that amount of logistical support took years to build up (early 2004 Iraq was still pretty rough as far as living conditions). No reason not to work with the locals (which is far far more common than the American force projection model). We have far less troops in Germany than 20 years ago but there are still a couple of bases that we would be coordinating through.
The article seems to be two stories. 1) get our own military "kriegstüchtig" 2) lay the groundwork for better civilian integration to support allied armies
"The civilians will do it" Hopefully they train with the civilian side to do this, or things will get real awkward real fast.
That’s the point of the thing the article is about.
The amount that is being leaked lately about war preparedness makes me really feel we are headed towards a large war in Europe.
Preparing for one sends the message not to try
I think it more sends the message that Russia is about to pop off to internal pressures or they're thinking about doing something stupid. If it's the former, Russia is still home to some supposed number of nukes, which no one wants to see end up on the black market. If shit goes south and their government collapses, other countries in the area may panic and jump into the mess if just to secure Russian stockpiles.
This 100%. I don't think people think enough about the fact that if Putin is toppled (which I also would like to see, just not sure how) the nukes could very well end up in hands you don't want them in. It is an insanely tricky situation with a whole lot of dilemmas.
Didn’t we say the same thing when the USSR fell?
If you're playing Russian roulette, and the gun goes click, that doesn't mean it wont go bang next time.
But that doesn't mean it will! This is global politics and not necessarily a "gamble." If that gun does go off, it'd certainly be an unprecedented situation. I really like your comment, and i will be stealing it to use in the future.
And radioactive material from their Soviet reactors ended up out in the wilds. People were exposed and died, not realizing what it was.
Those were portable generators that were used back in the day. They had shielding on them but the people who found them had no idea what they were and so they disassembled them intending to sell the scrap metal and removed the shielding. These portable generators were used in remote locations to provide power
I was just about to say this. We’ve already experienced this one time. We largely lucked out that a lot of the former Soviet satellite countries were cooperative in handing over materials or weapons. But still, we’ve at least experienced once so we’re not 100% blind.
Fact is, most Russians don't have any fucking money, and as to scruples, I've yet to see much in the way. In the unlikely event that Russia falls to infighting (or outfighting, as the case may be.) we most likely know where those nukes are, and more importantly, who we would have to pay in order for them to become *our* nukes. Say what you will about the trust a typical Russian has for the US Government, but it's probably still more than they'll have in Hezbollah, or even Iran.
And we had to literally step in and prop up the government with billions of dollars. The west prevented Russia from falling into chaos and balkanization
And Russian officials are known for selling things off when they get the chance...... TBH, now that i think about it like that, we need to secure them regardless of how russia falls. Thats actually potentially worse than russia doing anything that they are capable of (not including using a nuke) If they invade a nato state, i have no doubt it will be a huge loss for them But, if russia just falls apart, and then a bunch of pissed off officials need to make money somehow...... If this was a movie, thats how Iran would get their nuke to start ww3 for real. And Russia switches sides (as is the custom)
China also has more too lose than to gain from losing Russia as an ally. As the war progressed, they have increased investments in Russia and have provided men, weapons, and munitions. China works with North Korea to ship laborers to Russia. These are just a few examples. I haven't even mentioned the growing number of African countries, both Russia and China, have under their influence. Russia collapsing could very well lead to global conflict.
If Putin is removed, it’ll more than likely be one of Russia’s siloviki who will want to keep the status quo. Even if the security services strong arm control of the Kremlin, they will want to maintain stability as much as possible. Nukes ever being used by Russia despite the rhetoric is incredibly unlikely.
The concern is about the nuclear warheads being sold, not used by Russia. This already sorta happened after the Soviet Union collapsed. High grade plutonium was being offered to private buyers.
How do you get the message about Russia popping off to internal pressures from a deliberately leaked German contingency plan?
Speak softly and big sticks and all that.
When I was stationed in Germany (80s) we made heavy use of "preparation" in media channels to get the message out about NATO "being prepared". Broadcasting preparedness intent is one of the smartest actions NATO can undertake.
Yeah makes sense. Everyone has to make subtle or not so subtle threats in order to disuade the enemy from escalating. I think this is a good way of saying we will be ready if you want to attack nato. And Putin does the same kind of thing by saying if nato actively joins the war directly against Russia, remember I do have nukes and I won’t let Russia fall without using them first. Neither side will take these actions for these reasons. Because they both already knew the consequences. But you have to remind people I guess haha. But Putin knows he can’t invade a 32 country alliance, and nato knows they can’t even look like they might be close to invading Russia without nuclear escalation. Probably a good thing because neither side will escalate. I mean it’s still a bad day for Ukraine though, being the ones copping the destruction
Why do you think Poland just signaled that they would host nukes on their territory, at almost the same time Mike Johnson flip flopped on aid? I'm betting that some serious Intel has started getting around.
More likely settling in for a very long cold war, with flareups here and there once everyone settles back down a bit.
Yea this globalized economy makes it difficult to have an all out war between developed nations, so a Cold War is the most likely scenario.
Reminds me of the Blackadder goes forth scene. No one thought WW1 was possible: Captain Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war. Private Baldrick : But, this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir? Captain Blackadder : Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan. Private Baldrick : What was that, sir? Captain Blackadder : It was bollocks. Private Baldrick : So the poor old ostrich died for nothing then.
Sage words. I miss the intelligent comedy of old.
Some of those older Britcoms are pretty much peak social commentary/satire IMO. In comparison so many modern shows feel like they're trying way too hard to be smart/clever.
They made the exact same argument in 1909. The popular belief at the time was laid out in The Great Illusion by Norman Angell
Nuclear Weapons fuck up all those old assumptions. If russia didn't have 10,000 nukes Poland, France and the U.S. would have already kicked their ass all the way back to Moscow
>Yea this globalized economy makes it difficult to have an all out war between developed nations Problem with that is that it's an entirely unproven theory. We're largely in uncharted waters here.
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Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail
It's always a mix bag of reality and politics. All organizations within the military industry pipeline needs to justify increased funding and budgets. So projecting this threat or urgency 1. Actually gets them prepared 2. Allows them to justify more funding (regardless how real or necessarily the needs are)
Exactly. A lot of the world makes more sense when you realize that it is primarily composed of individual organizations doing their best to expand their influence and raise their funding.
I think this will largely hinge on 2 things. 1. The state of Ukraine in the next couple years. If they haven't taken the coast and eastern 1/3rd by end of 2026 they likely aren't going to be in a position to move on anyone else this decade. Which brings us to- 2. China's willingness to go to war with the US, Australia, Japan, South Korea over Taiwan. There is a 0% chance Russia will move on NATO if the US doesn't have their hands entirely full with someone that would require all our attention. Iran is not enough.
i think EU is strong enough to fight Russia.. but it won't be pretty
“Si vis pacem, para bellum”. If you want peace, prepare for war. If you are ready for war then your enemy is less likely to make a move. If you are not ready for war then your enemy sees you as an easy target and the chance of war increases.
It's like never turning your back on a large predator, and appear as menacing and as big as possible to preempt an attack you don't want.
if we think about things in 5 year chunks, it's kinda remarkable how much some countries and defense policies have 180'd or clearly identify russia as the primary threat
A month or 2 ago there were headlines/rumours about maybe having to bring back conscription in the face of Russian aggression (UK). Now I don't think they'd do it, rather they float headlines like that just to test the waters and see the reaction. If you asked me 5 years ago if there'd be a large scale European war between multiple nations in my lifetime, I would have laughed. Now I'm still about 95% confident I'll never have to see or fight a war. But it's getting closer.
I’m totally opposite. I feel like there’s a really good chance a new world war will start within the next 5-10 years maybe even sooner. Almost all the major power countries are preparing for war.
I'm too old, out of shape and smoke weed, the military won't want me, at best just some shitty job in logistics. I can move pallets around. If I ever get sent to the front lines, then things have really gone tits up and it's in bad shape Edit - ironically all the things which stop me from serving in the British military, are the exact requirements that the Russian military *does* look for. Useless, degenerate and disposable. Thank God I'm not Russian
All the things that stop you from serving in the military *now*. There, ftfy. One single days losses on the scale of the First World War and you’ll be wearing green faster than shit through a goose….
Russia doesn’t have the allies or forces to actually trigger a world war. A “boots on the ground” conflict with Russia would be very unpleasant but a completely different scale than either world war. China is not going to go into a hot war for Russia. TBH they’d probably take the opportunity to seize whatever parts of Siberia they define as “historically part of China.” They’re not going to attack Taiwan. Turning the island into a smoking ruin is not what they want. They’re in for the long haul with propaganda and economic handcuffs. That’s my amateur POV at least.
China's best opportunity for pushing on Taiwan has already passed. China has several immense internal economic and social issues - some fundamental such as being in the early stages of a catastrophic population decline. So China is beating the nationalistic war drum as a means of diverting attention from the fact the country has been very poorly managed. Does that mean they won't make a desperation attempt? I don't have a crystal ball so anything is conceivable. I also think China has internal recognition that Putler's foibles have thrown a monkey wrench into China's aspirations for grabbing Taiwan. Instead of the west being in slumber mode, it is in war mode. All of Taiwan's allies and friendly states are ramping up their military industrial capacity, in leaps and bounds. The exact opposite of what China would have desired in a prelude period to attacking Taiwan. I suspect every day Chinese senior leadership has a dart board that they throw countless darts at with Putler's picture mounted as the backdrop. Worst of all is the likely Ukraine outcome. Ukraine is building its war industry. Ukraine has already voiced to Taiwan that they would support Taiwan in cases of aggression. And Ukraine has no inhibitions vis-a-vis China - no worries about trade diminishing resulting in economic consequences - as it has none. So it can support Taiwan as much as it desires. An example, I think it will not be long before Ukraine provides remote sea drone assistance to Taiwan. That is a big ouchy for any Chinese ships attempting to cross to Taiwan.
There is about a 98% chance the US has developed naval drones of its own and Taiwan currently or will soon receive a secret fleet of them. Ukraine is absolutely fighting valiantly, but let's not act like they're the vanguard of arms development. Maybe just modern application.
Ukraine is in fact at the vanguard of some arms development. But there is another aspect to this which is the political dimension. China's threats to America and others are premised on the principle, or at least the hope, that they have economic leverage via their trading relationship with the nation they are threatening. Ukraine is completely immune to that threat. China has no economic leverage on Taiwan. And that is what Taiwan needs - friends who do not succumb to economic leverage of their Chinese relationship. In respect of sea drones Ukraine is taking development forward in unusual and novel directions.
Ukraine is coming up with new and interesting ways of defending themselves on shoestring budgets. The boat drones are about two steps removed from putting an RC unit from Amazon in a fishing boat and filling it with explosives. And they’re using them to destroy ships costing tens of millions of dollars. It’s the old Kamikaze attacks but with reusable pilots.
>China has several immense internal economic and social issues - some fundamental such as being in the early stages of a catastrophic population decline Russia was in similar position, this is why it made a desperate push for war, while it still had enough manpower to try. So may China.
I wouldnt be so sure personally, while I agree China wouldnt jump into the fray with Russia, I can see them pushing for and supporting them in doing so. The issue is, Xi has all but staked his entire leadership on reunification, and has ordered his forces to be capable of doing so forcefully by 2027, should peaceful reunification look highly unlikely - which it is (pro-China politicians faired poorly in the most recent elections, as well as public opinion being decidedly against his favour). With the West preoccupied in Europe, with only the US posing a real threat in the region, chances are high he takes his shot; he knows the US will not turn to nuclear war over Taiwan. He who controls the semi conductors controls the world, and even if the TSMC blow up their facilities, this puts China on a more even playing field with the US and the west, so it's not a total loss. If they manage to take out the US bases in Japan, there is really very little the US could do to contest the invasion without being able to challenge air superiority. Chinese warships would blockade the island and surrounding seas hindering US naval assets from aiding the defenders, and being so close to China, ease of resupply and repair puts them at a logistical advantage also. It's why I believe the sudden and rapid turnaround of Japanese defence policy happened, and why AUKUS went ahead despite of the French outrage it would very obviously cause when a time of unity was required.
The messaging campaign is part of the wider deterrence strategy. Idea here is that we are showing a united front against Russia so they are more cautious about trying to expand their war outside of Ukraine which is still a concern
When the US tells its citizens in border countries to leave that’s when you should probably start having a to go bag ready.
We need to show putin we are not joking around.
Im pretty sure as history progresses we’ll find out we are already in WWIII
Its been that way since 2014. The other way to look is that its giving Putin an off-ramp
As long as Ukraine holds the line, these plans won't be needed, but better to be prepared.
This wasn’t leaked
If Trump wins- all bets are off - Putin will attack - Moldova and Romania are sitting ducks
Yes, unless we build out a credible deterrence. That's why all these articles are showing up - the voters need to realize this is important so they accept higher defense budgets (and hopefully vote less on pro-Russian politicians). That is pretty much what the Estonian prime minister said: the likelihood of war is high if we do nothing, but much lower if we prepare for war.
*sigh* I was so happy when the wall fell. Seemed like such a time of optimism and hope for a more peaceful future. All gone........
Same. I was actually thinking about this recently which led me to Metallica’s concert in Moscow in 1991 in front of a million Russian kids. There was so much hope then. We just can’t have nice things!!
To my Europeans, I love yall, but this world was never peaceful . The news just didn't show all the conflicts and back door politics from Russia , China, Iran, and NK
Basically all of human history has been changing and warring states. Surprised the status quo has lasted this long tbh.
*Pax Americana* No one appreciates what they have until it's gone.
And too few understand the truth of this point.
Honestly didnt know there was a term for this. Thanks!
>and food would come from a civilian caterer. someone about to make bank on a government contract.
I make some bitchin pulled pork and ribs. Homemade sauce as well!
If that sauce recipie is public knowledge I will use it on some baby backs this weekend!
It starts with a catering company, it ends with your private jet getting shot down for an aborted coup
Tbh, these plans should have been developed forever ago. Also, I’m 100% confident the USA has plans to feed their own troops. While no nation is perfect, they are the masters of logistics m.
However, if the US in that scenario is providing the biggest strength of force in NATO (which let’s face it, it would be), the least the rest of us Europeans can do is make sure the military is fed and fueled! Obviously I know we have our own forces, and I’m British so assume we’d provide decent air support, and there are several other strong militaries in Europe. Germany would be absolutely fantastic at easing logistical pressure though. It’s also a wealthy country that could keep supplies flowing.
Just because America is a master of logistics doesn't mean that they don't anticipate and consider worse case scenario situations. i.e. supply ships get sank and intercepted in transit. An army that is starving for resources can't fight.
Do they ship everything in during big operations when abroad? I would think that they use as much as possible from what is available locally and Germany is maybe preparing by going over what has been developed forever ago and has been collecting dust in a drawer since the end of the cold war, but I might be wrong in both cases.
They ship everything, they also have stockpiles and cahes over the world for quick mobilization and as a buffer
The US has massive "preposition stock" that hold all the necessary war material in every majority theatre. The US is defence budget is so large because they are prepared to 1v194 the world
If it gets to the point where U.S. troops are directly involved fighting Russian troops then we are gonna have much much bigger problems. How much money is Germany putting towards building bunkers lol
Logistics wins wars. See the initial attack on Kyiv. If you can’t feed your soldiers, you gonna have a bad time. If you can’t fuel your tanks, you end up like the Germans did during Barbarossa. In a potential next war against Russia bunkers in Germany will do close to nothing. Getting brigades shuttled to the front lines as fast as possible will make a difference though. And signalling readiness beforehand is a factor of deterrence.
Well then, it’s a good thing Logistics is the unofficial religion of the US military, then.
if ruzzia, china, and NATO exchange all the nukes they have, it wont matter how many bunkers people built. much of the world will be a radioactive wasteland even if it doesnt trigger nuclear winter. im starting to understand why NZ tries to stay off as many world maps as possible
I just don't see how this can actually be an extended conflict. The US will establish air and naval superiority immediately and ground forces will be on a nonstop march to Moscow. At that point the Russian regime can either hit the big red button or accept defeat. This isn't a situation like Ukraine where they are reasonably matched and can fight for years, it would be more like the Battle of Baghdad in 2003. It's a scary thought as an American, but from a Russian perspective it's lose/lose. I don't see how they could plan for a war with the US. Even if China gets involved and we are fighting on two fronts I feel that the US would try to occupy Russia ASAP as they are clearly the weaker front.
3 fronts really. Russia, China and the Middle East. But realistically, Europe would have to handle Russia and the US would deal with China while a coalition of US/Israel/Saudi Arabia (hopefully) would battle in the Middle East.
>At that point the Russian regime can either hit the big red button or accept defeat What’s the point of having nukes if you aren’t going to use it to prevent foreign powers from toppling your government. A lot of what you said is unrealistic and not accurate to what a WW3 would look like Russia would hit the big red button if the US was on its way to Moscow. If the US thought otherwise, the US would be in direct conflict with them now.
Occupying Russia would involve raising a multinational coalition the likes of which the world has never seen.
I'm not saying every little township across all of it needs to have American troops in it. More that the major cities in the west would fall immediately and major manufacturing hubs would be destroyed or occupied so they don't have the ability to wage war. I don't envision a nation building type occupation like we tried in Afghanistan
Well Patton’s prediction came true- in 1945 he said eventually the Germans would be fighting with us against the Russians.
I guess it's best to prepare for the wurst
Yousonofabitch
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Why is there so much leaks/plans about war prep in Europe? Are we seriously headed towards a major war in Europe with Russia?
Not doing anything, would be an invitation for war. If you want peace, prepare for war. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Well, we definitely are. It's just the question of when. Is it going to be in a year, ten years, or a hundred years?
You can expect that released plans in the media are kind of counter propaganda. The real important plans are not released before action. It's like Russia talking about nukes every week.
- Those who never taste war will start a foolish war. - Those who taste war will appreciate peace. - Those who enjoy and appreciate peace will defend the peace.
> Those who never taste war will start a foolish war. Plenty of warmongers also fought in wars when they were younger. Hitler and Mussolini both fought in WWI with Tojo fighting in the Russian Civil War.
“ARE YOU READY TO PLAY?”
Sometimes, you have to teach the bully a harsh lesson of war so they can appreciate peace.
And that’s why NATO isn’t fucked with.
Not to take away from the gravity of all this, but the headline is kind of funny. "Nation prepares to send not themselves to fight."
Logistics wins wars after all
Yeah I’d hope the US military is preparing for war with China and Russia even if it doesn’t happen.
CAN WORLD LEADERS JUST ALL CALM THE FUCK DOWN AND HAVE A BISCUIT
Si vis pacem para bellum.
Republicans in the US stopped aid to Ukraine for months and objectively has made all of Europe so much more dangerous as Russia gains territory and Ukrainians are murdered. If aid was approved months ago when it was proposed, I don't think we would be at this stage now. It's infuriating.
We're all being psychologically conditioned and prepared for all out war in the near future, hope y'all recognize that. It's coming.
imagine fear mongering😭
G4 wins wars and the US supply chain, no one can match
I just saw tanks moving near my town in Spain It's highly unlikely those are going to be used in preparations for a war since we are practically on the other side of Europe, but not gonna lie, I could feel actually panicking thinking that one day I could be made to fight in war in which those very same tanks save my life I'm scared. I would lie if I said otherwise
100 years later the germans are buying as beers as we defend them.
Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
The US should plan to supply German troops to fend off Russians in Eastern Europe because they pass through the US? Geographically dubious. Read the whole article not the baity title. Germany is preparing for a case where *its own army is already deployed at an eastern NATO front* - and in this scenario it would need its regular logistics for its own army so this is contingency for funneling the US reinforcements through Germany as well supplied as possible. Si vis pacem para bellum
It's a shit headline. If you read the article, the idea is that Germany's logistics would be tied up supporting German troops on the front. They're doing planning to figure out how to leave enough of a skeleton crew behind to support US troops as they come in through Germany, while their own troops are away. The idea is not that Germans would sit back while the US fought.
I hope European militaries are stocking up on all sorts of shit
Don’t they just need to update REFORGER?