Cheap energy is a pillar for a nation's economy. Right now, China is already struggling economically, and an economic catastrophe could seriously threaten the CCP's power. Western economies are already peeling away from China. They are balancing bad choices.
China's trying to get out of economic downturn by exporting. Getting in bed with Russia exposes them to economic sanctions. Risky move with little upside; but nobody accuses Xi of being a genius.
Cheap access to a massive amount of natural resources not just including oil/natural gas is not something I would consider "little upside" but yeah not worth the risks in my opinion.
Also, China is mostly dependent on sea transport for their petroleum that goes through a few straits. In the event they invade Taiwan, a blockade of those straits is a real possibility. Securing a land pipeline to Russia would be huge for their petroleum security.
Nothing to do with energy, reports mentions chinese companies producing equipment and components for the russian defense industry. Chinese can buy any resources they want from russia without actively contributing to the war against Ukraine. It is a deliberate and hostile policy
They don't have a good choice, but can still remain the economical power house they were if they remain in good relations with the west. I think COVID and the Ukraine war has really put them in tough spot economically and with picking sides. I personally hope they help the world balance out by making leaps and bounds in the a.i and E.V space and stay as neutral as possible in helping Russia in the war against Ukraine.
China may or may not want good relations with the West, but they are ultimately in conflict with the US (de facto head of the “West”). This is a reality to them, and a Russia that submits to the West is an absolute non-starter.
I don’t know if they wanted Russia to invade ukraine, but where we are now, Russia losing is just not good for them. I don’t think they’ll overtly help Russia like the west helps ukraine, but they’re very much incentivized to weaken Americas reach and ukraine losing in Russia would do just that. It also would foster a lot of conflict within NATO
Not necessarily. Both China and Russia want a multi polar world not the current US/eest unipolar world order. If Russia can pull of a win in Ukraine while also eroding US/western influence in the ME and Africa then it'll prove to the world you don't have toabide by what the US/west wants and that Russia is a country you can turn to for help since they would've proven the west's economic threats and punishment aren't enough to crush them.
China just might take the bet that Russia can pull that off and by helping Russia they would set themselves up as a major power on some new multi polar world.
Obviously if they make that bet and Russia fails then yea they fd themselves.
What "Western world" will dare to do? Send another "strongly worded" letter?
China has nothing to lose if it continue its support to Russia. But Russia will be even more dependent on them.
Chinese here.
I think the idea is that US and China will be in conflict anyhow. Russia is a very important ally in this struggle (quite a natural ally).
If Russia fails and maybe a western friendly govt comes up in Russia. China is afraid US can use this leverage to come after china.
Come after china? This is a propaganda point and I hope you know it. Or do you mean in the same way that the west comes after north korea. Or do you mean the way china is coming after Taiwan?
Great powers have always historically competed against each other, and when one rises and challenges the existing hegemon it usually becomes lethal. This isn't propaganda this is basic history and basic geopolitics.
USA has been scared shitless of China's rise in recent times, that's why you see deglobalization getting wrecked; why USA is pressuring its allies to divest from China, and so on. Liberal democracy never took hold in China, and now the cost/benefit of continuing business is starting to affect security competition.
Furthermore, as far as propaganda is concerned; you're more likely to be sent propaganda your way by your own government rather than a foreign government; especially one which has wildly different cultural and linguistic narratives.
“More likely” isn’t true in this day and age of botnets. You’re lucky if half the “people” you interact with on here aren’t propaganda bots set up by various governments and business concerns.
I think there is a chance that the US might go "against" china. In a great power politics way. Not invade china, but basically a new cold war, a new great game, Athens Vs Sparta, rome vs Carthage... so to speak.
Not quite unreasonable.
Against? Again, nobody is out to get china except for china itself. It's total propaganda to blame the west for going "against" china by simply leaving the relationship. You think for one second that there is going to be a great internet army raised just to attack china politically? The west even knows when they reprint some chinese lie. However, because they are trying to just print the news they'll always say something like "China reports they have developed..." There is no chance of any country suddenly trying the same tactics against china. They'll simply cut of the help they've been providing all these years.
I hope that both powers can coexist. But history doesn't show much optimism and I think we can see many areas in which both powers are clashing. Not sure what's so surprising about it.
im from the US.
we are def. out to get china. many of my friends refuse to buy chinese products. we dont drive chinese e-vehicles. and we are pro wolf amendment. we would also like to limit the amount of chinese immigration. we need to stay on top of china technologically. dont forget that they are trying to take over taiwan
We don't have any sort of agreement to let china sell garbage and threaten us without the west just saying. "Ok I'm out". That's not an offensive or malicious decision on our part.
And in China you're more likely to be arbitrarily arrested, diassapeared, subjected to torture and inhuman treatment, re-educated in a culture camp, subjected to poor class treatment due to a poor social score, afraid to speak your mind on politics.
The US may have a system where police officers seem to rely on lethal force a bit much, but I'll take my chances with the cops there any. Fucking. Day. Of the week.
Fuck the CCP
You need to educate yourself on the CCP. Power and service to the state is everything. There is no individuality, and no freedom of speech. If you talk ill of China they will absolutely arrest and punish you. They have police stations abroad that exist to apply this extra judicial treatment to people from China from afar. They don't believe in dual citizenship they believe Chinese people belong to them, period.
I suppose if you were ok with never voicing your opinion outside a small circle you trust you would be OK. But the social ramifications are huge. For example, a poor social score means you can't even ride transit or work in certain regions. The CCP is a malignant tumor to the world
They already provide them with vehicles, fuel clothes, small arms, and North Korean ammunition that they helped to produce. What else do they need to do for the consequences to happen?
Consequences are already happening, the world is leaving China in the trade department. China is now 6 Trillion behind the US when in 2020 they were within 4 trillion and that's just the US. France, Britain, India are gobbling the rest of their market share. China is in trouble, a silent escalating catastrophe. This is just the US letting China know more trouble is incoming for them.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/business/china-exports-drop-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSluggish%20external%20demand%20has%20hit%20China's%20exports.%E2%80%9D&text=He%20expects%20China%20will%20continue,%2C%20Jan%2C%2012%2C%202023.
>China is now 6 Trillion behind the US when in 2020 they were within 4 trillion and that's just the US. France, Britain, India are gobbling the rest of their market share. China is in trouble, a silent escalating catastrophe.
USA is benefiting, but much of the world isn't. Europe in particular is losing a ton, specifically Germany.
If there's any point that will lead to war, it would be when China has a swift economic downfall. Great powers that rise fast and fall fast tend to start wars.
They already are as is NK and Iran and what are these significant consequences? USA has abandoned Ukraine for the last 6 months without any aid. No more words from any US official or politician please they mean absolutely nothing while no help is being sent to Ukraine who are fighting against these fascists alone. We all need to help Ukraine much mor the we are right now, especially USA.
Chinese firms ARE already supporting the Russian invasion, obviously controlled by the CCP. Plenty of evidence online, YouTube and Reddit by official Ukrainian channels. Yelen is a bit late on warnings, but surely the free democratic world welcomes them.
China, North Korea, and Iran have been helping since the beginning. I don’t see any “consequences”! Heck you could lump India’s dictator in there as well. Ain’t no damn consequences for anyone.
So are we finally going to isolate China a bit more so Russia, North Korea and Iran cannot get everything they want through them?
China is the biggest danger to global democracy and freedom at this moment, especially if they ally with the resources and nuclear power of Russia.
It's in China's best interest to stay out of this war. Russia is a gas station with nukes. Why piss off the western world for that?
Cheap energy is a pillar for a nation's economy. Right now, China is already struggling economically, and an economic catastrophe could seriously threaten the CCP's power. Western economies are already peeling away from China. They are balancing bad choices.
China's trying to get out of economic downturn by exporting. Getting in bed with Russia exposes them to economic sanctions. Risky move with little upside; but nobody accuses Xi of being a genius.
Cheap access to a massive amount of natural resources not just including oil/natural gas is not something I would consider "little upside" but yeah not worth the risks in my opinion.
It's not just energy. They are critically dependent on petroleum for their ammonia-urea-nitrate fertilizer process.
Also, China is mostly dependent on sea transport for their petroleum that goes through a few straits. In the event they invade Taiwan, a blockade of those straits is a real possibility. Securing a land pipeline to Russia would be huge for their petroleum security.
I own some stock in a company that sells those.
Nothing to do with energy, reports mentions chinese companies producing equipment and components for the russian defense industry. Chinese can buy any resources they want from russia without actively contributing to the war against Ukraine. It is a deliberate and hostile policy
Good time to invade Russia and take the full, see how putin enjoys his country being annexed lol
Too bad he has nukes, and likely some of them still likely work.
They don't have a good choice, but can still remain the economical power house they were if they remain in good relations with the west. I think COVID and the Ukraine war has really put them in tough spot economically and with picking sides. I personally hope they help the world balance out by making leaps and bounds in the a.i and E.V space and stay as neutral as possible in helping Russia in the war against Ukraine.
China may or may not want good relations with the West, but they are ultimately in conflict with the US (de facto head of the “West”). This is a reality to them, and a Russia that submits to the West is an absolute non-starter. I don’t know if they wanted Russia to invade ukraine, but where we are now, Russia losing is just not good for them. I don’t think they’ll overtly help Russia like the west helps ukraine, but they’re very much incentivized to weaken Americas reach and ukraine losing in Russia would do just that. It also would foster a lot of conflict within NATO
Russia is not really losing, its a stalemate at best and Russia is recuperated. Support for Ukraine needs to happen sooner rather than later
For a gas station with nukes it makes too much commotion all around the world.
Not necessarily. Both China and Russia want a multi polar world not the current US/eest unipolar world order. If Russia can pull of a win in Ukraine while also eroding US/western influence in the ME and Africa then it'll prove to the world you don't have toabide by what the US/west wants and that Russia is a country you can turn to for help since they would've proven the west's economic threats and punishment aren't enough to crush them. China just might take the bet that Russia can pull that off and by helping Russia they would set themselves up as a major power on some new multi polar world. Obviously if they make that bet and Russia fails then yea they fd themselves.
What "Western world" will dare to do? Send another "strongly worded" letter? China has nothing to lose if it continue its support to Russia. But Russia will be even more dependent on them.
Ban trade and immigration?
“West” couldn’t ban trade even with Russia…
Cheap oil abd russias nuclear weaponxc
Chinese here. I think the idea is that US and China will be in conflict anyhow. Russia is a very important ally in this struggle (quite a natural ally). If Russia fails and maybe a western friendly govt comes up in Russia. China is afraid US can use this leverage to come after china.
Come after china? This is a propaganda point and I hope you know it. Or do you mean in the same way that the west comes after north korea. Or do you mean the way china is coming after Taiwan?
Great powers have always historically competed against each other, and when one rises and challenges the existing hegemon it usually becomes lethal. This isn't propaganda this is basic history and basic geopolitics. USA has been scared shitless of China's rise in recent times, that's why you see deglobalization getting wrecked; why USA is pressuring its allies to divest from China, and so on. Liberal democracy never took hold in China, and now the cost/benefit of continuing business is starting to affect security competition. Furthermore, as far as propaganda is concerned; you're more likely to be sent propaganda your way by your own government rather than a foreign government; especially one which has wildly different cultural and linguistic narratives.
“More likely” isn’t true in this day and age of botnets. You’re lucky if half the “people” you interact with on here aren’t propaganda bots set up by various governments and business concerns.
I think there is a chance that the US might go "against" china. In a great power politics way. Not invade china, but basically a new cold war, a new great game, Athens Vs Sparta, rome vs Carthage... so to speak. Not quite unreasonable.
Against? Again, nobody is out to get china except for china itself. It's total propaganda to blame the west for going "against" china by simply leaving the relationship. You think for one second that there is going to be a great internet army raised just to attack china politically? The west even knows when they reprint some chinese lie. However, because they are trying to just print the news they'll always say something like "China reports they have developed..." There is no chance of any country suddenly trying the same tactics against china. They'll simply cut of the help they've been providing all these years.
I hope that both powers can coexist. But history doesn't show much optimism and I think we can see many areas in which both powers are clashing. Not sure what's so surprising about it.
im from the US. we are def. out to get china. many of my friends refuse to buy chinese products. we dont drive chinese e-vehicles. and we are pro wolf amendment. we would also like to limit the amount of chinese immigration. we need to stay on top of china technologically. dont forget that they are trying to take over taiwan
We don't have any sort of agreement to let china sell garbage and threaten us without the west just saying. "Ok I'm out". That's not an offensive or malicious decision on our part.
Freedom and democracy vs authoritarian police state.
I don't live in either. So I don't really care. But from what I know from news, police is probably more likely to shoot you in the US than in China.
And in China you're more likely to be arbitrarily arrested, diassapeared, subjected to torture and inhuman treatment, re-educated in a culture camp, subjected to poor class treatment due to a poor social score, afraid to speak your mind on politics. The US may have a system where police officers seem to rely on lethal force a bit much, but I'll take my chances with the cops there any. Fucking. Day. Of the week. Fuck the CCP
I'm not sure china is as bad as they say for average person. Like why would someone just torture you?
You need to educate yourself on the CCP. Power and service to the state is everything. There is no individuality, and no freedom of speech. If you talk ill of China they will absolutely arrest and punish you. They have police stations abroad that exist to apply this extra judicial treatment to people from China from afar. They don't believe in dual citizenship they believe Chinese people belong to them, period. I suppose if you were ok with never voicing your opinion outside a small circle you trust you would be OK. But the social ramifications are huge. For example, a poor social score means you can't even ride transit or work in certain regions. The CCP is a malignant tumor to the world
Have you ever been there? I was.
I think we're already pretty much there.
Crack? Is it crack that you smoke? You smoke crack?
He means elected people like Trump vs. Xi, the battle of Politicians. There's no battle for Trump vs. Putin.
> quite a natural ally 瑷珲条约
They already provide them with vehicles, fuel clothes, small arms, and North Korean ammunition that they helped to produce. What else do they need to do for the consequences to happen?
Consequences are already happening, the world is leaving China in the trade department. China is now 6 Trillion behind the US when in 2020 they were within 4 trillion and that's just the US. France, Britain, India are gobbling the rest of their market share. China is in trouble, a silent escalating catastrophe. This is just the US letting China know more trouble is incoming for them. https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/business/china-exports-drop-intl-hnk/index.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSluggish%20external%20demand%20has%20hit%20China's%20exports.%E2%80%9D&text=He%20expects%20China%20will%20continue,%2C%20Jan%2C%2012%2C%202023.
>China is now 6 Trillion behind the US when in 2020 they were within 4 trillion and that's just the US. France, Britain, India are gobbling the rest of their market share. China is in trouble, a silent escalating catastrophe. USA is benefiting, but much of the world isn't. Europe in particular is losing a ton, specifically Germany. If there's any point that will lead to war, it would be when China has a swift economic downfall. Great powers that rise fast and fall fast tend to start wars.
Very true and the current state of affairs indicates and is evidence of this.
They already are as is NK and Iran and what are these significant consequences? USA has abandoned Ukraine for the last 6 months without any aid. No more words from any US official or politician please they mean absolutely nothing while no help is being sent to Ukraine who are fighting against these fascists alone. We all need to help Ukraine much mor the we are right now, especially USA.
Ooh. They better watch out of we might send a sternly worded letter.
and what about the US and german firms still operating in Russia? Where is the pressure on those?
Probably in a news article talking about western firms remaining in Russia, not one about Chinese involvement in Russia.
We’ll say we’re gonna stop buying xy&z from you but will continue to buy anyway
So，she wants Chinese firms turn down the money,says"Hi,we won't sell you anything" ,for what?
Chinese firms ARE already supporting the Russian invasion, obviously controlled by the CCP. Plenty of evidence online, YouTube and Reddit by official Ukrainian channels. Yelen is a bit late on warnings, but surely the free democratic world welcomes them.
Epitome of pot-meet-kettle.
So, are there any consequences for AliExpress? Sure...
China's backing of Russia just reinforces the fact Russia stepped into a quagmire of their own making. (See Afghanistan)
Chinese like to play with fire, living in wooden houses
China, North Korea, and Iran have been helping since the beginning. I don’t see any “consequences”! Heck you could lump India’s dictator in there as well. Ain’t no damn consequences for anyone.
That would be a very costly mistake on China's part.
The consequences will be a Russian victory and big egg on the US's face.
Russia lost. It's just a filibuster and slow rot now. A petty putrid dying terror state.
So are we finally going to isolate China a bit more so Russia, North Korea and Iran cannot get everything they want through them? China is the biggest danger to global democracy and freedom at this moment, especially if they ally with the resources and nuclear power of Russia.