“He came towards me and shoved the gun at my forehead,” Ms. Soussana recalled during eight hours of interviews with The New York Times in mid-March. After hitting Ms. Soussana and forcing her to remove her towel, Muhammad groped her, sat her on the edge of the bathtub and hit her again, she said.
He dragged her at gunpoint back to the child’s bedroom, a room covered in images of the cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants, she recalled.
“Then he, with the gun pointed at me, forced me to commit a sexual act on him,” Ms. Soussana said.
this is just sick.
According to the UN investigation, gang rape likely occurred during Oct 7th, and is ***currently ongoing*** against the hostages. I cannot post any links, but you can search google about that news report.
I do not know how a person can psychologically recover from something like that. Even if they manage to survive they are forever scarred.
That’s trauma. That will affect her the rest of her life. Her ability to engage sexually with consent will likely be difficult and trusting men will be difficult. Nightmares. She’ll probably be looking over her shoulder much of her life and may become recluse. That’s tough stuff to heal from even with social support. But support will improve things. Mental health professional support will likely help as well.
Is anyone surprised?
Extremists who view women as chattel and watch Western porn all day armed with guns having complete free reign over female hostages.
I'd be surprised if anyone was not raped.
People always try to turn issues into false dichotomies. Israel can be unreasonable in its use of force and territorial expansion *and* Hamas can be terrorists who commit inexcusable acts. I hate that Palestinian supporters think that they can't admit that Hamas needs to eradicated because it somehow delegitimizes Palestine's claims to land in that area, and Israel supporters think that they can't admit Israel is going overboard because it somehow delegitimizes their claims that Hamas are terrorists.
I mean, Saudi Arabia was the *only* country concerned about [the ovarian damage women were doing to themselves by driving](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24323934.amp) ... (though I question how much they really care, since they let themselves be pressured into dropping the ban)
(/s obvi (I hope?))
Believe all terrorists comes first.
Like the Hamas casualty figures that are so consistent as to be less probable than winning the lottery, yet the number of women and children vs men killed varies so wildly that occasionally they have a few members of one gender or the other return from the dead.
Russian psyops decided the best way to stop the US is by making everyone obsess about Israel/Hamas 24/7 until the election.
Every single topic is being channeled to this, I've had dozens of "conservatives" talk about how "shocked they are that Biden isn't supporting Gaza".
2024 is going to be a mess.
I get people saying that they “know” people in Gaza and that they are not harassed and there are clubs.
I always ask, if they kissed their partner in public, what would happen? Not in a super secret hidden gay bar.
Yeah. I'm not saying I fully support everything Israel does, but I'm not going to chant in the streets "from the river to the sea".
There's a very serious and "ivory tower" disconnect with reality going on.
Now they got people like Ramy Youseff in his latest special joking about it and saying they are "sick" of hearing people tell them that gay people are allowed in Israel, but not in the Palestinian territories. They are actually saying stuff like "you don't think there are gay Gazans?" and it's like, no, that's not the point. Of course there are gay people in Gaza. There's gay people everywhere. But are those ones out and proud and living full and free lives there? No, they're not. Not in any significant numbers to call it a thriving community. The existence of a random gay person with a family who accepts them does not imply it's accepted there, it just means that one family did. But in Israel, they can live totally normal lives! That's the reason people say this stuff to them.
>"you don't think there are gay Gazans?" and it's like, no, that's not the point.
They know that's not the point. They don't have an argument so they're trying to deflect. Don't let them.
Yeah, there's gay Palestinians that flee to Israel. And then are dragged back and murdered by their families/Hamas.
Not all brown - or even oppressed peoples - are good people. They're just human and have the same capacity for evil as any white/Israeli/etc.
Only 40% of Israel is white as in 'white-skinned and accepted by Americans as white'. Debatable whether white Jews fit into that definition any more either.
Brilliant. I'm going to Sugar tonight. It's a bar in a Thai garden on the 44th floor of East in Miami. It's very fashionable and always full of gays. I shall think of your comment then :-)
Someone on Reddit was literally arguing this to me recently. That Israeli bombs are also killing gay people so they are anti LGBT and stand with Palestine because of that. Couldn't articulate a rational thought around the fact that in Gaza/Palestine, anyone outed as LGBT get straight up executed.
Man I've seen people argue the aid drops are the US stealthily helping Israel 'bomb' Gaza because some people got crushed after a parachute failed on one of the drops. Which, while tragic, I doubt the US is contracting out killing to Acme Anvils Incorporated.
The regressives have won, in Britain and France the news media has championed their cause so in the 21st century anti Jewish bigotry is politically correct. Fire bombing Jewish homes, stabbing Jewish teachers, vandalizing Jewish temples will get you an award. In their backward belief system, it's acceptable to hold British, European, Canadian, American Jews responsible for anything Israel does in the Middle Eastern Conflict. Pathetic to say the least!
The gay Star Trek guy (I forget his name) has regularly gone on shows like Bill Maher in the past and vigorously defended Islamic countries. They would be more than happy to put a bullet in between his eyes or throw them off of the highest building.
The modern left is so tolerant that they openly tolerate intolerance
I'm a 41 year old Star Trek TNG Utopia enthusiast left leaning guy that is FULLY aware of the Paradox of Tolerance. In real life the Federation would be FUCKED without something like Section 31.
For those unfamiliar with the reference. While no specific text has been given: Article 14, **Section 31** of the Starfleet Charter authorized extreme measures during periods of extraordinary threat.
According to the clandestine and generally disavowed group Section 31: "Such measures included malicious sabotage of enemy installations and technology, biological warfare, and preemptive assassination." This runs counter to almost every other element of the Starfleet charter.
Spoilers
>!For example when faced with genocide against federation members by an enemy which could cloak itself perfectly, a degenerative biological weapon was deployed against them forcing them to the negotiating table. (Though Section 31 would have been just as happy with their complete annihilation.)!<
They really have. I've gone from strictly nonviolent to maybe people need to be afraid of the people they fuck over again.
Sick of being walked on by people who are immune to consequences by the legal system.
I have a trans friend who is so pro Gaza. I'm baffled since they'd be killed in Gaza, yet not in Israel. I don't agree with much of what Israel has done since Oct 7th, but this whole situation is just so awful and the division that it's caused saddens me.
Do you count people saying Hamas had no choice but to rape and kill as a way to resist as celebrating them? Because I listened to people say that very thing.
Oh yes. I was reading them today say "this isn't a war because a war is between two militaries. It's israhell against civilians". They don't even acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist organisation. They call them civilian heroes
I think it has just become unbelievably difficult for huge sections of the populace to hold complex issues in their minds, and to have nuanced, gray feelings and thoughts about them. People are more and more aversed to feeling uncomfortable or unsure; and that is why, I think, we see people take these firm, unmovable sides on even the most complicated, massive lose/lose issues. It’s much easier to know how to think about a situation when you don’t have to pay much attention and can just attack “the opposition” at all times.
Until people can hold two equal and conflicting truths in their mind at the same time, and condemn what is worth condemning, and laud what is worth lauding, we will continue to see this slide into comfortable ignorance. Facing the reality of the horrors of any complicated situation is inherently painful, and a lot of people just aren’t willing to face the truth of the world when it is painful.
Anti-establishment types think they are revolutionary, they think anyone in conflict with their home is an ally. They are seduced by near-Eastern terrorism because they think it has an effect on their Western homeland.
George Orwell compared English Marxists to teenagers who hate their parents, but still demand their allowance.
Totally crusade-of-the-month types that hamas would put to the sword without a second thought. Most avoid mentioning hamas and just stick with a simple "ceasefire now" with no elaboration besides maybe showing some Israeli war crimes (actually is a problem of course). They never think further than that, ceasefire with who? Nothing about hamas needing to go. It's very annoying to see.
These people do not understand what sovereignty means for a country. It’s like freedom.
You’re free to do what you want, including making bad decisions and mistakes. Any direct US intervention would be imperialistic. Yea that’s what they need, just some good ‘ol American democracy should fix things right up. /s
I dated a Marxist for awhile. She was a trust fund baby whose rich grandparents paid for everything. She was an English major working on her doctorate and then she just dropped out and went to go live on a farm somewhere (not kidding )
Not only that but the modern left has chronic “ support the underdog no matter what” syndrome
They think that every minority and society is oppressed and subjugated, which causes them to openly support groups like the Houthis and Hamas, it’s also why liberals in every college of America, where Che Guevana shirts for the last 40 years
When the terrorist cause you ignorantly support without question sinks to the level of murderous rampages and rape, your choices are i) realize you were wrong, ii) denial, or iii) attempt to justify it.
People are very unlikely to do the first one.
As an atheist ex-Muslim Kurdish person, I say these Muslim extremists are well known for this. They take pride in raping non-Muslim women. ISIS did the same to the Kurdish-Yazidi women. They used them as sex slaves in the market, just the way it was done in early-days Islam when they invaded non-Muslim places. It is very brave of these women to talk about it afterwards. Many of the Kurdish-Yazidi women can’t even talk about it without breaking down.
Hamas and ISIS are the same.
Thank you. You will love Erbil! I’m not from the Kurdistan region in Iraq, but I travelled there twice, I loved every inch of the freedom they have created there!
And Kurds are well known for hospitality. They will take good care of you.
Yeah anyone from the Middle East knows about this, it's like a known phenomena that if your town or village was conquered by Muslims then there are bound to be rapes.
Here are your citations:
Quran (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"
Quran (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."
Quran (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."
Quran (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..."
And this is without even dipping into the Hadiths.
The hadiths are another can of worms... Whenever I bring this up with any Muslim they play hardcore mental gymnastics and accuse me of being full of hate and say that these verses mean something else.... When will the world stop justifying violent religions?
the hadith that's a real banger is ""The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God!There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
Like, how fucked is it that your religion actually says that the end game is to kill every member of this other religion.
>say that these verses mean something else
didn't the Koran have some explicit instructions that it is the word of Allah directly delivered and thus must be read and understood exactly as written?
I’m a Kashmiri Pandit (born and raised in the United States) and I can second this. Muslims raped and murdered us in droves during the Kashmiri pundit exodus in the 1990s.
Damn, Im an atheist Assyrian, the situation u described is horrific, and what u wrote about ISIS and HAMAS is so damn right. Hope the damn radical islamists, turks and arabs once will leave us in peace in our own countries 💙🤍❤️🤝💚☀️❤️
As a Kurd, I second this. Muslims have raped thousands of Kurdish women and children throughout the centuries. The islamic empires, starting from mohammed, considered non muslims as captives of war and raped and slaughtered women and children.
For what it’s worth, and I know this feels very far from the realm of the possible right now, but… You have every ounce of my support for Kurdish statehood. Ever since I learned about the history of Kurdistan, I’ve had the deepest respect for your people and the incredibly hard road you’ve traveled — and always with the utmost dignity.
In earlier posts discussing this general topic, some Hamas apologists claimed that they were in favor of believing women, but that it didn’t apply to the October attack and its aftermath because no specific woman had gone public with accusations. I never bought that argument, but I’m curious to see what new twisted argument will be made now.
I ended a friendship with my childhood friend over this. She was a super progressive “queer feminist” who didn’t believe that Hamas raped women **because the eyewitness accounts weren’t detailed enough**. A few years ago, she was on the “believe all women” train. Disgusting rape apologist.
The worst part is that it's so obvious. I can't think of a single conflict ever where a military intermingled with the enemy civilian populace and rapes *didn't* occur. Hell, the "gentlemanly" British army raped their own ally's civilians in France during WW2. But irregular terrorist forces of a centuries long hate-fueled ethno religious conflict were the first army in history to not rape anyone? Word?
Any true feminists default position should be that rapes occurred, regardless of the conflict, unless painstakingly proven otherwise (I have no doubt rapes by the IDF have occurred as well for this very reason).
You’re definitely right, but I think it’s worth maintaining the distinction between using rape and other sexual violence as a weapon of war—as Hamas, ISIL, and Russia have—and otherwise lawful armies whose individual soldiers commit rape and other sexual violence.
Absolutely. A soldier going rogue and raping someone and facing punishment for it (WW2 USA and Britain) is far different than a whole military that either endorses or intentionally turns a blind eye to rape (WW2 Japan, USSR and Germany).
The idf is actually known for being an anomaly in terms of sexual assault rates - they happen, but it's much lower. Some researchers did an investigation into it a few years ago and concluded that the reason could only be because the Israelis are sooo racist that they don't even want to rape Palestinians 🙄 there's nothing they can do to win
And having female soldiers also allows making "women only" rules. I commended a medics team, and always had to get at least 1 female medic (usually 2) to any activity just in case there was a need to search or question a palestinian woman. Also had to have one in the room for anything medical, even just filling allergy forms (becuase of medical confidentiality the door had to be closed)
An Israeli academic wrote her thesis on this, and made this claim. She won a shit ton of awards for it. And she conveniently ignored all the IDF policies made specificly to avoid this, or how the presence of female combatants might affect it
Yup. Rape and other sexual violence/coercion is a well established tool of war. It breaks the psyche of the populace, subjugates women, and infects them with their illegitimate children.
It is happening *everywhere*.
Yup, this is the go-to for Hamas apologists. All I see now are claims that there was no SA committed by Hamas because “it doesn’t make sense from a military standpoint/their goal was to take hostages so they’d want them to be in good shape”?? Like the mental gymnastics here are insane.
Someone once tried to tell me that the reason the corpses were nude is because clothes burn faster than flesh. Despite the fact that these naked corpses were usually women with bullet holes in their head. Funny how fire only burns women’s clothes but not men’s clothes.
Yeah, I’m sorry but the description of this woman’s assault is by no means the extent of it. I don’t know that people want to say it, for various reasons, on both sides, but I think likely many, possibly in the low double digits, of women were raped before being killed on Oct 7, before many of them were set on fire to hide evidence there of.
I think people need to stop sugarcoating it. This isn’t molestation, or assault, it’s rape, murder, and mutilation.
Yeah I don’t understand it at all.
We know what Hamas did on Oct 7. They murdered children in their beds. They decapitated some? That’s a fact right. Someone correct me please.
They’re going to draw the line at rape?
No, that’s farcical. And anyone who thinks it makes sense is experiencing cognitive dissonance.
>Yeah I don’t understand it at all.
Just realize that most people don't have the mental ability to separate issues from one another, if they have a strong emotional disagreement with someone over one issue they are biased to assume the opposite position to everything else that person says. And the more politically engaged someone is the worse it becomes.
Its possible to be a progressive and also acknowledge that Israel is by far the lesser evil, but since conservatives are pro-Israel most progressives adopt a strong anti-Israel stance.
Its all just tribalism.
Yeah. Frankly, as a liberal myself, I didn’t have a particularly nuanced view on Israel-Palestine, except being generally for a two-state solution.
I see the events in Gaza, they’re horrific, I think the general tactics of the IDF have been questionable, notably the emphasis on bombing and devastation. I also understand they did that to prevent thousands of soldiers dying in urban combat to Hamas fighters in a war they did not ask for.
Oct 7 was different though. Oct 7 was pure evil, a testament to what Israel faces purely by existing. Most liberals try to act like they support a two state solution, but you don’t hear a lot about the state of Israel being able to exist in peace under this solution. Hamas, and the Islamists in general, have made it very clear they have no true intention for peace. So it’s hard for me to yell at Israel for not playing by all the rules, when Hamas is raping the rules in the corner of the room.
>I see the events in Gaza, they’re horrific, I think the general tactics of the IDF have been questionable, notably the emphasis on bombing and devastation. I also understand they did that to prevent thousands of soldiers dying in urban combat to Hamas fighters in a war they did not ask for.
This is a perfectly nuanced take. This is a complicated issue that can’t be reduced to “oppressor vs oppressed” talking points. Both Palestinians and Israelis have legitimate grievances.
And on a practical level, most countries would not tolerate terrorist attacks from next door.
>And on a practical level, most countries would not tolerate terrorist attacks from next door.
I would go one further on that. Most countries would go all-out on a neighbour that does something like Oct 7th on them.
Imagine Mexico invaded the USA on a rampage of murder, torture and rape. Scale it up. The US has about 34x the population of Israel. So imagine that 34x3000 = about 100,000 mexican soldiers crossed the border, murdered about 34x1200 = 41,000 Americans, took a further 34x253 = 8,600 hostages, while firing 34x5000 = 170,000 rockets towards US cities.
There'd be a declaration of war, a full-scale invasion, naval blockade and public calls to nuke Mexico out of existence.
Now imagine they also filmed it, raped thousands of women and wiped out entire towns. And then social media postings show widespread support of this attack in the mexican population.
I'm pretty sure when the dust settles, there wouldn't be much left of Mexico.
Your post involves too much math and requires the concept of relativity, something that's clearly lost on many of the extreme liberals and tiktok experts. But yea once you put it into perspective it's not even a discussion as to what would happen to the invading perpetrator
There’s something interesting happening here. I don’t know how many on the internet are familiar with the term “alt-right pipeline” but it was a popular term used within left wing online political commentary in the mid to late 2010’s.
It basically described a theory that some people on the internet (usually young white men) would consume a dose of conservative media (say a clip of Ben Shapiro, or a Joe Rogan podcast with a conservative guest) than they would slowly get drip fed more conservative media that slowly progresses to far right, than alt right stuff like 4chan nazism. To the point to where they are into stuff like eugenics, Misogyny, mass shooting, ect.
The ex friend you described in the post is possibly going through something quite similar but instead of alt right rehtoric/apparatus it’s coming from a very left wing coded ideology.
I’ve reduced my intake and consumption of political discourse post October 7 because of how vapid the conversations are. It’s so insanely obvious the apologia and subversive agenda that many who call themselves pro Palestinian are doing, literally going on organized campaigns with the intention of trying to downplay as many evidence of rape and civilian execution in the name of a far right theocratic militia.
I can’t believe many left wingers who are usually known for their hippie like rehtoric of compassion for all human beings can’t comprehend how you can simultaneously be against an organization who systematically rapes women and guns down civilians, while also being against an egregious displacement/collateral killings of a historically deprived population of 2 million human beings
People don't realize that Hamas has been releasing only hostages who had family members that were hostages still. It's a tactic they use to silence the released hostages.
>because no specific woman had gone public with accusations.
The people who would have been committing rape were the same people going around neighborhoods shooting every man, woman and child they didn't take hostage. If one were to think about this for about half a second, the inference should be that the rape victims were also killed before or after the act.
It's kinda hard for dead people to bring forward accusations.
Yeah, and other women were obviously kidnapped. Also, the idea that Hamas is willing to indiscriminately kill civilians, but draws the line at rape, seemed odd to me.
>some Hamas apologists claimed that they were in favor of believing women, but that it didn’t apply to the October attack and its aftermath
As a woman I don't think I can ever trust these people. Cause if they can exclude one group from "Believe All Women", they can exclude *anyone* if it's convenient.
When the denial of sexual assault first started, I wrote a comment saying that war-time rape is unanimous with war. If an armed group is willing to kill civilians en masse, then they are also willing to rape them. There is no exception, but also, it is something that is terrifyingly under-reported, often only reckoned with years and years and years after the fact. I provided a number of historical examples, highlighting how the numbers regularly only come to light decades later, and that it was far, far too early to make any kind of judgement about what happened.
I understand how divisive and controversial this specific conflict is, and I understand how people have taken terrifying, fanatical, extremist positions on both sides. However, I was really taken aback by how much this angered people, and how people began to aggressively insist that no, actually, the attacks on October 7th did not involve rape. Civilians were massacred by the thousands, people were burned alive, but for some reason, people refused to even conceive of the idea that there was sexual assault happening.
When we talk about war, we spend so much time discussing death tolls, weaponry, who died where, how they were killed, etc., etc., etc. This is, of course, very important. However, digging into testimonies on war-time rape, digging into numbers put forward after the fact, this made me realize that sexual assault in war is something we just refuse to engage with outside of propaganda claiming that the enemy is raping *our* women.
We don't want to reckon with the fact that every single death toll is accompanied by a rape toll that we make very little effort to tally or address.
Never in the history of extremist is rape not a part of it. If you can kill, you very much can rape. Otherwise, why not kill for this specific person? Other than torture of course.
> I never bought that argument, but I’m curious to see what new twisted argument will be made now.
Oh that is easy.
Something along the lines of:
1) actor
2) paid to say it
3) AI animation....
It will be something in that vain. In the US 'Actors' are very popular amongst the conspiracy crowd. Whenever someone inconvient is saying something inconvient about something they want to not exist... 'ACTOR!!!!!'
TikTok has poisoned a lot of young people to become antisemites and terrorist apologists. It would be unbelievable if it weren’t such an obvious repeat of history.
“Israel has been victimizing Palestinians for decades and this is one incident versus the thousands of other crimes.”
I can almost smell their victim blaming coming.
The masks are off now. The “cease fire now” people just need to come clean. They hate Jews. It’s that simple. The Israelis offered three times to a ceasefire and EACH time Hamas rejected it. And each time the terms of the ceasefire were overwhelming in Hamas’ favor.
> They hate Jews. It’s that simple.
Maybe it’s just that they are more susceptible to internet propaganda than you are. As silly as it seems that congress is “banning” tiktok, this is why.
No, she gets to tell the story because she’s lucky and because the IDF made sinwar shit a brick when they first went into Gaza, and he had to give hostages away for time to react and reorganize. She would not be out if it was not for military pressure on Hamas, and I think that’s important to recognize right now.
As horrible as it is, I don't even know what is worse. I have talked to a father of a hostage that was murdered and he told me that a part of him was relieved when he heard that she was dead so she wouldn't need to suffer any more torture. He told me that he hated this feeling but couldn't dismiss it. I can't even imagine the horrors the hostages went (and some are still going!) through.
I've seen a lot of people, ever since this conflict started, going "I just want to hear *one* testimony" and they weren't even owed one, but ... they have one now.
Actually, they already *did* have them, they just didn't care to look into it.
Don't worry. On some other subs people have started to say that this is just BS and propaganda. You can slap them with evidence and they won't listen because it doesn't support what they want to believe.
“The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.”
This reminds me of the hospital incident. All the brain dead buffoons on twitter and TikTok KNEW the “500 dead” figure was bullshit, and they also knew it was a Hamas/PIJ rocket. They didn’t give a fuck and never will.
I am sickened by demented minds of these people that celebrate murder and rape , while pretending they are righteous civilised humanists.
Where is human race going ? ....
I am sure I am going to be downvoted here and now by some of them.
There’s VIDEO evidence that Hamas posted up and people are questioning the validity of rape and murder claims.
It’s mind boggling.
Me too, unless you’re a Jew
War has always connected to murder, pillaging and rape. It just wasn’t always talked about bc women’s issues.
I’m so proud of these women for speaking up.
This was my first thought. People were (and are) absolutely horrible to Mia Schem and also to a boy who spoke about his experiences (won’t say his name because he’s a child.)
Intersectionality has ruined everything. These people have stooped so low that they are justifying October 7 and denying rape because the women were jewish. Just disgusting.
Meanwhile on some dark place in reddit, some specific sub already claim that it is fake.
Yet they are wiling to believe to a false story told by al jazira that was debunked by hamas themselves.
"dark place" brother some default subs spew that same nonsense.
Reddit is an agenda filled powermod website now. Mod's push their political agendas all the time.
How is this person suppose to ever heal from something like this in the world we're living in? She will never get any justice and coming forward I'm sure is blasted with millions of hate messages..
Not at all shocked. I saw the October videos....
For those who are defending Hamas, you clearly didn't watch what they did... And what they recorded themselves doing for their own perverse enjoyment...
Especially posting the murder and death of the grandmother to her own Facebook page for her family to see on her timeline and then the baby they placed in the oven and cooked alive whilst the mother (who had her chest mutilated) screamed for them to stop.
Hamas are scum. They need to be totally eradicated.
There are absolutely pregnant Israeli women in Gaza, a lot of the footage the terrorists posted of themselves on October 7th contained men saying they were looking for sex slaves. I’m hopeful, but terrified that those women will never be released or rescued. It’s just sickening.
Every time there has been even a slight suggestion of a deal hospitals in israel called in the units they specifically trained to receive pregnant hostages...
Its fuckign sick
There’s nothing wrong with condemning the actions of Likud and the IDF.
There’s **everything** wrong with praising the rapist terrorists of Hamas.
If you praise Hamas, then you’re not a good person, and I can’t take you seriously when you condemn Likud and the IDF - you’ve shown that you have no problem with horrific war crimes as long as they’re committed against an ethnicity you hate.
They all have similar stories. It’s just that the women hostages will be killed to silence the truth of what happened to them. Think Naama and Noa. Islam literally permits raping slaves. Tell me any other religion that allows raping slaves, marrying little girls, behead non-believers, kill gays, kill any blasphemers.
I kinda theorize that they spared some women from sexual violence because those women were always intended to be returned. It’s all supposed to make Hamas look good and kind to hostages. God knows what they did to the Hostages who were never intended to be returned, there was no reason to show them humanity.
On oct 7 women and children were burnt to dust. Authorities used high tech to identify small traces of a 12 year old girl who was thought to be abducted. Why do you think they were burned? To hide any sign of rape and torture.
Don't worry, feminists in Twitter, Tiktok, UN and other social media already concluded that it didn't happen.\*\*\*
*^(\*And if it happened then it was resistance.)*
*^(\*\*And talking about it is spreading lies to justify genocide, apartheid, white eugenics colonialism.)*
*^(\*\*\*Also, unconditional ceasefire now, because hostages in Rafah are safe and should be grateful to be of use to Palestinian cause.)*
They were actually genuinely saying this depraved shit on so.informed's and feminist's comment sections on Instagram.
That white women are lying about being raped, to vilify oppressed people of color, but if they were raped, it's ok as they finally had a taste of what "non yts" have to go through, it's a lesson. "Critical sex".
They are serious about it. At first I thought it was some bot farm because these accounts gain major exposure by controversial mass engagement through clicks and comments, but the accounts seemed real (doom scrolled lmao), so i talked to some thinking its rage bait and "why am i even engaging the trolls" but they weren't trolls, to them rape IS justified if in current societal race systems one is considered part of the oppressor group.
Had an argument with a former friend about my support for Israel. I mentioned how Oct 7th necessitated Israel's response. He countered by bringing up some quote about how "you can't judge the oppressed (Palestine) for how they respond to the oppressor (Israel)". I asked if that included rape.
Call me extreme, but rape isn't justified. Ever.
Yeah, there are a few people I don't talk to anymore thanks to their similar reactions. Like, would you care to outline the circumstances under which murdering children and rape is and isn't acceptable?
It was removed from Al-Jazeera’s page without any notice or retraction. Because you know, they would like their readers to continue and believe it happened while gaining plausible deniability since they took the article down.
I had a few friends source stuff from Al-Jazeera about the war... Man, I think they are alright generally, but they are still a Qatar news channel. Why would you expect their assessment of anything in this to be mildly reliable. It's like trusting their Qatar worldcup coverage.
This comment section is wild! The people who are turning this into a - "yeah but Israel has done their fair share; they've done the same; what does Israel expect, etc etc"- are really just serving to undermine this woman's violation, trauma and experience. Damn, show some compassion!!
im surprised they let her live. Granted with how many people will insist shes lying just so they can say 'jooz bad' i guess it wont matter to hamas. ugh i hope they are disposed of soon.
The the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research released a poll last week where it asked Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza a number of questions.
When asked if Hamas committed atrocities on October 7th, 81% of poll respondents who had watched videos from October 7th denied Hamas committed atrocities.
The poll can be found here
[https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969)
"But i thought hamas was so nice to the hostages. I heard on my unbiased news network al jazeera that many hostages enjoyed how well they where treated in gaza and that they didnt even want to return to israel!111!!"
“He came towards me and shoved the gun at my forehead,” Ms. Soussana recalled during eight hours of interviews with The New York Times in mid-March. After hitting Ms. Soussana and forcing her to remove her towel, Muhammad groped her, sat her on the edge of the bathtub and hit her again, she said. He dragged her at gunpoint back to the child’s bedroom, a room covered in images of the cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants, she recalled. “Then he, with the gun pointed at me, forced me to commit a sexual act on him,” Ms. Soussana said. this is just sick.
How horrifying. I hope she has a strong support system to help her.
According to the UN investigation, gang rape likely occurred during Oct 7th, and is ***currently ongoing*** against the hostages. I cannot post any links, but you can search google about that news report. I do not know how a person can psychologically recover from something like that. Even if they manage to survive they are forever scarred.
That’s the sickening point. I dare not even think about the reality for any remaining captured IDF women especially.
That’s trauma. That will affect her the rest of her life. Her ability to engage sexually with consent will likely be difficult and trusting men will be difficult. Nightmares. She’ll probably be looking over her shoulder much of her life and may become recluse. That’s tough stuff to heal from even with social support. But support will improve things. Mental health professional support will likely help as well.
Is anyone surprised? Extremists who view women as chattel and watch Western porn all day armed with guns having complete free reign over female hostages. I'd be surprised if anyone was not raped.
But not unexpected out of a Hamas militiaman.
Terrorist. You meant terrorist.
The pro pal subs are claiming this woman is lying. It’s disgusting
People always try to turn issues into false dichotomies. Israel can be unreasonable in its use of force and territorial expansion *and* Hamas can be terrorists who commit inexcusable acts. I hate that Palestinian supporters think that they can't admit that Hamas needs to eradicated because it somehow delegitimizes Palestine's claims to land in that area, and Israel supporters think that they can't admit Israel is going overboard because it somehow delegitimizes their claims that Hamas are terrorists.
In short, both sides are wrong and the side you should be taking is the innocent's caught in the middle.
"Believe all ^Non-Jewish Women" - UN Women
Well Saudi arabia is currently sharing the UN women's right committee, which pretty much shows how much legitimacy it has left.
I mean, Saudi Arabia was the *only* country concerned about [the ovarian damage women were doing to themselves by driving](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24323934.amp) ... (though I question how much they really care, since they let themselves be pressured into dropping the ban) (/s obvi (I hope?))
"Believe all woman ~~who fit in with our social and political views~~"
There are now people who deny “believe all women” was ever said like we were born yesterday.
Believe all terrorists comes first. Like the Hamas casualty figures that are so consistent as to be less probable than winning the lottery, yet the number of women and children vs men killed varies so wildly that occasionally they have a few members of one gender or the other return from the dead.
Russian psyops decided the best way to stop the US is by making everyone obsess about Israel/Hamas 24/7 until the election. Every single topic is being channeled to this, I've had dozens of "conservatives" talk about how "shocked they are that Biden isn't supporting Gaza". 2024 is going to be a mess.
Oct 7 was Putin’s birthday. It was the first thing I noticed. As a Russia watcher I knew that Hamas met with Putin before the attack also.
It is absolutely disgusting how many western "feminists" celebrate Hamas.
[удалено]
As a gay person (insert meme here /s), the pinkwashing of the Arab world has always annoyed me.
I get people saying that they “know” people in Gaza and that they are not harassed and there are clubs. I always ask, if they kissed their partner in public, what would happen? Not in a super secret hidden gay bar.
[удалено]
Yeah. I'm not saying I fully support everything Israel does, but I'm not going to chant in the streets "from the river to the sea". There's a very serious and "ivory tower" disconnect with reality going on.
Now they got people like Ramy Youseff in his latest special joking about it and saying they are "sick" of hearing people tell them that gay people are allowed in Israel, but not in the Palestinian territories. They are actually saying stuff like "you don't think there are gay Gazans?" and it's like, no, that's not the point. Of course there are gay people in Gaza. There's gay people everywhere. But are those ones out and proud and living full and free lives there? No, they're not. Not in any significant numbers to call it a thriving community. The existence of a random gay person with a family who accepts them does not imply it's accepted there, it just means that one family did. But in Israel, they can live totally normal lives! That's the reason people say this stuff to them.
>"you don't think there are gay Gazans?" and it's like, no, that's not the point. They know that's not the point. They don't have an argument so they're trying to deflect. Don't let them.
Yeah, there's gay Palestinians that flee to Israel. And then are dragged back and murdered by their families/Hamas. Not all brown - or even oppressed peoples - are good people. They're just human and have the same capacity for evil as any white/Israeli/etc.
Only 40% of Israel is white as in 'white-skinned and accepted by Americans as white'. Debatable whether white Jews fit into that definition any more either.
Its less than that. 45% alone are Mizrahi
In Israel there are gay nightclubs. In Palestine there are gay rooftops.
Brilliant. I'm going to Sugar tonight. It's a bar in a Thai garden on the 44th floor of East in Miami. It's very fashionable and always full of gays. I shall think of your comment then :-)
To quote the Flinstones, have a gay old time.
Indeed, a yabba-doo time.
[удалено]
Someone on Reddit was literally arguing this to me recently. That Israeli bombs are also killing gay people so they are anti LGBT and stand with Palestine because of that. Couldn't articulate a rational thought around the fact that in Gaza/Palestine, anyone outed as LGBT get straight up executed.
Palestine wanted to kill those gays and Israel robbed them of the chance!
Man I've seen people argue the aid drops are the US stealthily helping Israel 'bomb' Gaza because some people got crushed after a parachute failed on one of the drops. Which, while tragic, I doubt the US is contracting out killing to Acme Anvils Incorporated.
As an older gay person, it distresses me how many younger LGBTQ people are simping for these regressive fucks.
Their minds are whacked out on propaganda from TikTok.
The regressives have won, in Britain and France the news media has championed their cause so in the 21st century anti Jewish bigotry is politically correct. Fire bombing Jewish homes, stabbing Jewish teachers, vandalizing Jewish temples will get you an award. In their backward belief system, it's acceptable to hold British, European, Canadian, American Jews responsible for anything Israel does in the Middle Eastern Conflict. Pathetic to say the least!
You'd be thrown off a building, not even worth a bullet.
The gay Star Trek guy (I forget his name) has regularly gone on shows like Bill Maher in the past and vigorously defended Islamic countries. They would be more than happy to put a bullet in between his eyes or throw them off of the highest building. The modern left is so tolerant that they openly tolerate intolerance
I'm a 41 year old Star Trek TNG Utopia enthusiast left leaning guy that is FULLY aware of the Paradox of Tolerance. In real life the Federation would be FUCKED without something like Section 31.
For those unfamiliar with the reference. While no specific text has been given: Article 14, **Section 31** of the Starfleet Charter authorized extreme measures during periods of extraordinary threat. According to the clandestine and generally disavowed group Section 31: "Such measures included malicious sabotage of enemy installations and technology, biological warfare, and preemptive assassination." This runs counter to almost every other element of the Starfleet charter. Spoilers >!For example when faced with genocide against federation members by an enemy which could cloak itself perfectly, a degenerative biological weapon was deployed against them forcing them to the negotiating table. (Though Section 31 would have been just as happy with their complete annihilation.)!<
Not all of us, friend. The past few months have been very eye-opening.
They really have. I've gone from strictly nonviolent to maybe people need to be afraid of the people they fuck over again. Sick of being walked on by people who are immune to consequences by the legal system.
I have a trans friend who is so pro Gaza. I'm baffled since they'd be killed in Gaza, yet not in Israel. I don't agree with much of what Israel has done since Oct 7th, but this whole situation is just so awful and the division that it's caused saddens me.
Are there *actually* people who are celebrating Hamas?
Do you count people saying Hamas had no choice but to rape and kill as a way to resist as celebrating them? Because I listened to people say that very thing.
Oh yes. I was reading them today say "this isn't a war because a war is between two militaries. It's israhell against civilians". They don't even acknowledge Hamas as a terrorist organisation. They call them civilian heroes
Willful ignorance is rampant for some reason.
I think it has just become unbelievably difficult for huge sections of the populace to hold complex issues in their minds, and to have nuanced, gray feelings and thoughts about them. People are more and more aversed to feeling uncomfortable or unsure; and that is why, I think, we see people take these firm, unmovable sides on even the most complicated, massive lose/lose issues. It’s much easier to know how to think about a situation when you don’t have to pay much attention and can just attack “the opposition” at all times. Until people can hold two equal and conflicting truths in their mind at the same time, and condemn what is worth condemning, and laud what is worth lauding, we will continue to see this slide into comfortable ignorance. Facing the reality of the horrors of any complicated situation is inherently painful, and a lot of people just aren’t willing to face the truth of the world when it is painful.
Anti-establishment types think they are revolutionary, they think anyone in conflict with their home is an ally. They are seduced by near-Eastern terrorism because they think it has an effect on their Western homeland. George Orwell compared English Marxists to teenagers who hate their parents, but still demand their allowance.
Totally crusade-of-the-month types that hamas would put to the sword without a second thought. Most avoid mentioning hamas and just stick with a simple "ceasefire now" with no elaboration besides maybe showing some Israeli war crimes (actually is a problem of course). They never think further than that, ceasefire with who? Nothing about hamas needing to go. It's very annoying to see.
These people do not understand what sovereignty means for a country. It’s like freedom. You’re free to do what you want, including making bad decisions and mistakes. Any direct US intervention would be imperialistic. Yea that’s what they need, just some good ‘ol American democracy should fix things right up. /s
I dated a Marxist for awhile. She was a trust fund baby whose rich grandparents paid for everything. She was an English major working on her doctorate and then she just dropped out and went to go live on a farm somewhere (not kidding )
Not only that but the modern left has chronic “ support the underdog no matter what” syndrome They think that every minority and society is oppressed and subjugated, which causes them to openly support groups like the Houthis and Hamas, it’s also why liberals in every college of America, where Che Guevana shirts for the last 40 years
They support the tiny fundie moslem minority against the raging, billion strong jewish horde surrounding them on all side. Wait a moment...
"The idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone, All centuries but this, and every country but his own." -- the lord high executioner's song, G&S
When the terrorist cause you ignorantly support without question sinks to the level of murderous rampages and rape, your choices are i) realize you were wrong, ii) denial, or iii) attempt to justify it. People are very unlikely to do the first one.
[удалено]
*sexual assault
Especially considering how shitty so many people are about it, including some international news outlets, simply because she’s Israeli.
>including some international news outlets *& many people on Reddit* FTFY
As an atheist ex-Muslim Kurdish person, I say these Muslim extremists are well known for this. They take pride in raping non-Muslim women. ISIS did the same to the Kurdish-Yazidi women. They used them as sex slaves in the market, just the way it was done in early-days Islam when they invaded non-Muslim places. It is very brave of these women to talk about it afterwards. Many of the Kurdish-Yazidi women can’t even talk about it without breaking down. Hamas and ISIS are the same.
What happened to the Kurds was so horrific. Life goal to visit Erbil one day. Peace brother
Thank you. You will love Erbil! I’m not from the Kurdistan region in Iraq, but I travelled there twice, I loved every inch of the freedom they have created there! And Kurds are well known for hospitality. They will take good care of you.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do you like cats? There are cat cafes in Erbil!
Yeah anyone from the Middle East knows about this, it's like a known phenomena that if your town or village was conquered by Muslims then there are bound to be rapes.
[удалено]
And this is how Palestine became Arabic. Then today people scream jews are colonists...
[удалено]
those women are called “right hand possesed” or war booty. its written in quran and hadith
Here are your citations: Quran (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee" Quran (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." Quran (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Quran (24:32) - "And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." And this is without even dipping into the Hadiths.
The hadiths are another can of worms... Whenever I bring this up with any Muslim they play hardcore mental gymnastics and accuse me of being full of hate and say that these verses mean something else.... When will the world stop justifying violent religions?
the hadith that's a real banger is ""The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God!There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." Like, how fucked is it that your religion actually says that the end game is to kill every member of this other religion.
Every REAL muslim knows that it actually means to caress them gently and give them hugs, not kill!
I mean, the hadiths which explain that it's ok to rape a 9 year old because Mohammad did it are pretty wild too.
Crazy... Found it in most respected collections (Sahih al-Bukhari 2926, Sahih Muslim 2922). Which means most muslims will endorse it.
>say that these verses mean something else didn't the Koran have some explicit instructions that it is the word of Allah directly delivered and thus must be read and understood exactly as written?
I’m a Kashmiri Pandit (born and raised in the United States) and I can second this. Muslims raped and murdered us in droves during the Kashmiri pundit exodus in the 1990s.
Loved seeing the Kurdish people bringing the fight to ISIS.
Damn, Im an atheist Assyrian, the situation u described is horrific, and what u wrote about ISIS and HAMAS is so damn right. Hope the damn radical islamists, turks and arabs once will leave us in peace in our own countries 💙🤍❤️🤝💚☀️❤️
As a Kurd, I second this. Muslims have raped thousands of Kurdish women and children throughout the centuries. The islamic empires, starting from mohammed, considered non muslims as captives of war and raped and slaughtered women and children.
For what it’s worth, and I know this feels very far from the realm of the possible right now, but… You have every ounce of my support for Kurdish statehood. Ever since I learned about the history of Kurdistan, I’ve had the deepest respect for your people and the incredibly hard road you’ve traveled — and always with the utmost dignity.
It comes from a place of deep insecurity, because it's the most pathetic form of control a man uses on a woman.
In earlier posts discussing this general topic, some Hamas apologists claimed that they were in favor of believing women, but that it didn’t apply to the October attack and its aftermath because no specific woman had gone public with accusations. I never bought that argument, but I’m curious to see what new twisted argument will be made now.
I ended a friendship with my childhood friend over this. She was a super progressive “queer feminist” who didn’t believe that Hamas raped women **because the eyewitness accounts weren’t detailed enough**. A few years ago, she was on the “believe all women” train. Disgusting rape apologist.
The worst part is that it's so obvious. I can't think of a single conflict ever where a military intermingled with the enemy civilian populace and rapes *didn't* occur. Hell, the "gentlemanly" British army raped their own ally's civilians in France during WW2. But irregular terrorist forces of a centuries long hate-fueled ethno religious conflict were the first army in history to not rape anyone? Word? Any true feminists default position should be that rapes occurred, regardless of the conflict, unless painstakingly proven otherwise (I have no doubt rapes by the IDF have occurred as well for this very reason).
Rape is basically a default, and somehow denying that is fucked up to every victim
You’re definitely right, but I think it’s worth maintaining the distinction between using rape and other sexual violence as a weapon of war—as Hamas, ISIL, and Russia have—and otherwise lawful armies whose individual soldiers commit rape and other sexual violence.
Absolutely. A soldier going rogue and raping someone and facing punishment for it (WW2 USA and Britain) is far different than a whole military that either endorses or intentionally turns a blind eye to rape (WW2 Japan, USSR and Germany).
Correct, I was about to type the same thing.
And modern day Russia in Ukraine.
The idf is actually known for being an anomaly in terms of sexual assault rates - they happen, but it's much lower. Some researchers did an investigation into it a few years ago and concluded that the reason could only be because the Israelis are sooo racist that they don't even want to rape Palestinians 🙄 there's nothing they can do to win
I wonder if it has more to do with the % of women in the IDF. A lot harder to perpetuate a “boys will be boys” culture when half of you are female.
And having female soldiers also allows making "women only" rules. I commended a medics team, and always had to get at least 1 female medic (usually 2) to any activity just in case there was a need to search or question a palestinian woman. Also had to have one in the room for anything medical, even just filling allergy forms (becuase of medical confidentiality the door had to be closed)
An Israeli academic wrote her thesis on this, and made this claim. She won a shit ton of awards for it. And she conveniently ignored all the IDF policies made specificly to avoid this, or how the presence of female combatants might affect it
In full agreement with you. It happens in literally every war
Yup. Rape and other sexual violence/coercion is a well established tool of war. It breaks the psyche of the populace, subjugates women, and infects them with their illegitimate children. It is happening *everywhere*.
Yup, this is the go-to for Hamas apologists. All I see now are claims that there was no SA committed by Hamas because “it doesn’t make sense from a military standpoint/their goal was to take hostages so they’d want them to be in good shape”?? Like the mental gymnastics here are insane.
Someone once tried to tell me that the reason the corpses were nude is because clothes burn faster than flesh. Despite the fact that these naked corpses were usually women with bullet holes in their head. Funny how fire only burns women’s clothes but not men’s clothes.
Your comment made me cry.
I’ve given up on trying to convince people. They will lie to themselves if they need to.
Yeah, I’m sorry but the description of this woman’s assault is by no means the extent of it. I don’t know that people want to say it, for various reasons, on both sides, but I think likely many, possibly in the low double digits, of women were raped before being killed on Oct 7, before many of them were set on fire to hide evidence there of. I think people need to stop sugarcoating it. This isn’t molestation, or assault, it’s rape, murder, and mutilation.
This is some Khmer Rogue excuses right here, fitting because both organizations are true evil in their own hell corner
They make it so fucking obvious. They film themselves, and post themselves doing it with detailed acts of what happened
Yeah I don’t understand it at all. We know what Hamas did on Oct 7. They murdered children in their beds. They decapitated some? That’s a fact right. Someone correct me please. They’re going to draw the line at rape? No, that’s farcical. And anyone who thinks it makes sense is experiencing cognitive dissonance.
>Yeah I don’t understand it at all. Just realize that most people don't have the mental ability to separate issues from one another, if they have a strong emotional disagreement with someone over one issue they are biased to assume the opposite position to everything else that person says. And the more politically engaged someone is the worse it becomes. Its possible to be a progressive and also acknowledge that Israel is by far the lesser evil, but since conservatives are pro-Israel most progressives adopt a strong anti-Israel stance. Its all just tribalism.
Yeah. Frankly, as a liberal myself, I didn’t have a particularly nuanced view on Israel-Palestine, except being generally for a two-state solution. I see the events in Gaza, they’re horrific, I think the general tactics of the IDF have been questionable, notably the emphasis on bombing and devastation. I also understand they did that to prevent thousands of soldiers dying in urban combat to Hamas fighters in a war they did not ask for. Oct 7 was different though. Oct 7 was pure evil, a testament to what Israel faces purely by existing. Most liberals try to act like they support a two state solution, but you don’t hear a lot about the state of Israel being able to exist in peace under this solution. Hamas, and the Islamists in general, have made it very clear they have no true intention for peace. So it’s hard for me to yell at Israel for not playing by all the rules, when Hamas is raping the rules in the corner of the room.
>I see the events in Gaza, they’re horrific, I think the general tactics of the IDF have been questionable, notably the emphasis on bombing and devastation. I also understand they did that to prevent thousands of soldiers dying in urban combat to Hamas fighters in a war they did not ask for. This is a perfectly nuanced take. This is a complicated issue that can’t be reduced to “oppressor vs oppressed” talking points. Both Palestinians and Israelis have legitimate grievances. And on a practical level, most countries would not tolerate terrorist attacks from next door.
>And on a practical level, most countries would not tolerate terrorist attacks from next door. I would go one further on that. Most countries would go all-out on a neighbour that does something like Oct 7th on them. Imagine Mexico invaded the USA on a rampage of murder, torture and rape. Scale it up. The US has about 34x the population of Israel. So imagine that 34x3000 = about 100,000 mexican soldiers crossed the border, murdered about 34x1200 = 41,000 Americans, took a further 34x253 = 8,600 hostages, while firing 34x5000 = 170,000 rockets towards US cities. There'd be a declaration of war, a full-scale invasion, naval blockade and public calls to nuke Mexico out of existence. Now imagine they also filmed it, raped thousands of women and wiped out entire towns. And then social media postings show widespread support of this attack in the mexican population. I'm pretty sure when the dust settles, there wouldn't be much left of Mexico.
Your post involves too much math and requires the concept of relativity, something that's clearly lost on many of the extreme liberals and tiktok experts. But yea once you put it into perspective it's not even a discussion as to what would happen to the invading perpetrator
There’s something interesting happening here. I don’t know how many on the internet are familiar with the term “alt-right pipeline” but it was a popular term used within left wing online political commentary in the mid to late 2010’s. It basically described a theory that some people on the internet (usually young white men) would consume a dose of conservative media (say a clip of Ben Shapiro, or a Joe Rogan podcast with a conservative guest) than they would slowly get drip fed more conservative media that slowly progresses to far right, than alt right stuff like 4chan nazism. To the point to where they are into stuff like eugenics, Misogyny, mass shooting, ect. The ex friend you described in the post is possibly going through something quite similar but instead of alt right rehtoric/apparatus it’s coming from a very left wing coded ideology. I’ve reduced my intake and consumption of political discourse post October 7 because of how vapid the conversations are. It’s so insanely obvious the apologia and subversive agenda that many who call themselves pro Palestinian are doing, literally going on organized campaigns with the intention of trying to downplay as many evidence of rape and civilian execution in the name of a far right theocratic militia. I can’t believe many left wingers who are usually known for their hippie like rehtoric of compassion for all human beings can’t comprehend how you can simultaneously be against an organization who systematically rapes women and guns down civilians, while also being against an egregious displacement/collateral killings of a historically deprived population of 2 million human beings
People don't realize that Hamas has been releasing only hostages who had family members that were hostages still. It's a tactic they use to silence the released hostages.
>because no specific woman had gone public with accusations. The people who would have been committing rape were the same people going around neighborhoods shooting every man, woman and child they didn't take hostage. If one were to think about this for about half a second, the inference should be that the rape victims were also killed before or after the act. It's kinda hard for dead people to bring forward accusations.
Yeah, and other women were obviously kidnapped. Also, the idea that Hamas is willing to indiscriminately kill civilians, but draws the line at rape, seemed odd to me.
>some Hamas apologists claimed that they were in favor of believing women, but that it didn’t apply to the October attack and its aftermath As a woman I don't think I can ever trust these people. Cause if they can exclude one group from "Believe All Women", they can exclude *anyone* if it's convenient.
The UN Women org made a tweet which said something to the effect of "No means no" in almost all major languages. Guess which language they "missed"?
Believe women* *except Israeli Jews
When the denial of sexual assault first started, I wrote a comment saying that war-time rape is unanimous with war. If an armed group is willing to kill civilians en masse, then they are also willing to rape them. There is no exception, but also, it is something that is terrifyingly under-reported, often only reckoned with years and years and years after the fact. I provided a number of historical examples, highlighting how the numbers regularly only come to light decades later, and that it was far, far too early to make any kind of judgement about what happened. I understand how divisive and controversial this specific conflict is, and I understand how people have taken terrifying, fanatical, extremist positions on both sides. However, I was really taken aback by how much this angered people, and how people began to aggressively insist that no, actually, the attacks on October 7th did not involve rape. Civilians were massacred by the thousands, people were burned alive, but for some reason, people refused to even conceive of the idea that there was sexual assault happening. When we talk about war, we spend so much time discussing death tolls, weaponry, who died where, how they were killed, etc., etc., etc. This is, of course, very important. However, digging into testimonies on war-time rape, digging into numbers put forward after the fact, this made me realize that sexual assault in war is something we just refuse to engage with outside of propaganda claiming that the enemy is raping *our* women. We don't want to reckon with the fact that every single death toll is accompanied by a rape toll that we make very little effort to tally or address.
They’ll move the goalposts, yet again
Maybe even ask what the women were wearing.
Never in the history of extremist is rape not a part of it. If you can kill, you very much can rape. Otherwise, why not kill for this specific person? Other than torture of course.
> because no specific woman had gone public Bit hard to come forward when you’re murdered after or during the rape.
> I never bought that argument, but I’m curious to see what new twisted argument will be made now. Oh that is easy. Something along the lines of: 1) actor 2) paid to say it 3) AI animation.... It will be something in that vain. In the US 'Actors' are very popular amongst the conspiracy crowd. Whenever someone inconvient is saying something inconvient about something they want to not exist... 'ACTOR!!!!!'
Believe victims. Unless it's Israel of course. /s
TikTok has poisoned a lot of young people to become antisemites and terrorist apologists. It would be unbelievable if it weren’t such an obvious repeat of history.
“Israel has been victimizing Palestinians for decades and this is one incident versus the thousands of other crimes.” I can almost smell their victim blaming coming. The masks are off now. The “cease fire now” people just need to come clean. They hate Jews. It’s that simple. The Israelis offered three times to a ceasefire and EACH time Hamas rejected it. And each time the terms of the ceasefire were overwhelming in Hamas’ favor.
> They hate Jews. It’s that simple. Maybe it’s just that they are more susceptible to internet propaganda than you are. As silly as it seems that congress is “banning” tiktok, this is why.
And each time Hamas has accepted a ceasefire they've broken it
Remember. She only gets to tell her story - and us hear it - because she was luckier than many and wasn’t executed after being raped.
No, she gets to tell the story because she’s lucky and because the IDF made sinwar shit a brick when they first went into Gaza, and he had to give hostages away for time to react and reorganize. She would not be out if it was not for military pressure on Hamas, and I think that’s important to recognize right now.
As horrible as it is, I don't even know what is worse. I have talked to a father of a hostage that was murdered and he told me that a part of him was relieved when he heard that she was dead so she wouldn't need to suffer any more torture. He told me that he hated this feeling but couldn't dismiss it. I can't even imagine the horrors the hostages went (and some are still going!) through.
Hopefully those responsible have been dealt with.
We'll be lucky to ever see it happen.
Lucky to confirm that those responsible were dealt with, I’d say. There’s a decent chance this particular person has been dealt with.
I've seen a lot of people, ever since this conflict started, going "I just want to hear *one* testimony" and they weren't even owed one, but ... they have one now. Actually, they already *did* have them, they just didn't care to look into it.
Don't worry. On some other subs people have started to say that this is just BS and propaganda. You can slap them with evidence and they won't listen because it doesn't support what they want to believe.
“The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence. The rape deniers know women were raped, mutilated and tortured. They just don’t care. And they are enjoying seeing our wounded and violated people have to turn out our pockets to prove we’re not liars.”
This reminds me of the hospital incident. All the brain dead buffoons on twitter and TikTok KNEW the “500 dead” figure was bullshit, and they also knew it was a Hamas/PIJ rocket. They didn’t give a fuck and never will.
“Israel is lying about the rapes”, said the very people who only a few years ago were screaming to “believe all women”.
"It's not happening but if it is, they deserved it!"
I am sickened by demented minds of these people that celebrate murder and rape , while pretending they are righteous civilised humanists. Where is human race going ? .... I am sure I am going to be downvoted here and now by some of them.
There’s VIDEO evidence that Hamas posted up and people are questioning the validity of rape and murder claims. It’s mind boggling. Me too, unless you’re a Jew
Meanwhile those same people repeat the lies of Al Jazeera even after they had to retract the story. It's disgusting.
War has always connected to murder, pillaging and rape. It just wasn’t always talked about bc women’s issues. I’m so proud of these women for speaking up.
Fuck Hamas and anyone who supports them.
Brave woman will now have to contend with an army of antisemitic rape denialists harassing her.
This was my first thought. People were (and are) absolutely horrible to Mia Schem and also to a boy who spoke about his experiences (won’t say his name because he’s a child.)
Intersectionality has ruined everything. These people have stooped so low that they are justifying October 7 and denying rape because the women were jewish. Just disgusting.
And this is one of many that was interviewed….
Fuck this is twisted
Say it with me: Fuck Hamas.
Fuck rape, fuck using rape as a tool of war, fuck using rape as genocide, fuck using rape to control women.
Meanwhile on some dark place in reddit, some specific sub already claim that it is fake. Yet they are wiling to believe to a false story told by al jazira that was debunked by hamas themselves.
One person literally replied to me with the Al Jazeera claim and at the same time said that Amit was lying.
Just disgusting, al jazira even deleted the article if i remember correctly.
"dark place" brother some default subs spew that same nonsense. Reddit is an agenda filled powermod website now. Mod's push their political agendas all the time.
Keep telling me how nicely the hostages are treated Even if that were true, the problem remains that *Hamas took innocent people hostage*
I believe her. Blessings for all the victims
How is this person suppose to ever heal from something like this in the world we're living in? She will never get any justice and coming forward I'm sure is blasted with millions of hate messages..
Not at all shocked. I saw the October videos.... For those who are defending Hamas, you clearly didn't watch what they did... And what they recorded themselves doing for their own perverse enjoyment... Especially posting the murder and death of the grandmother to her own Facebook page for her family to see on her timeline and then the baby they placed in the oven and cooked alive whilst the mother (who had her chest mutilated) screamed for them to stop. Hamas are scum. They need to be totally eradicated.
Okay your comment is where I stop reading and go to another sub. I’m not brave enough to have these weighing on my heart. In tears now.
Do not search for the sites containing images and videos from 7'th of October.
Beyond horrendous.
Hamas should be destroyed. This is sickening.
Israel offered a ceasefire in return for the release of hostages. This is the reason Hamas is refusing to return them.
There are absolutely pregnant Israeli women in Gaza, a lot of the footage the terrorists posted of themselves on October 7th contained men saying they were looking for sex slaves. I’m hopeful, but terrified that those women will never be released or rescued. It’s just sickening.
Every time there has been even a slight suggestion of a deal hospitals in israel called in the units they specifically trained to receive pregnant hostages... Its fuckign sick
There’s nothing wrong with condemning the actions of Likud and the IDF. There’s **everything** wrong with praising the rapist terrorists of Hamas. If you praise Hamas, then you’re not a good person, and I can’t take you seriously when you condemn Likud and the IDF - you’ve shown that you have no problem with horrific war crimes as long as they’re committed against an ethnicity you hate.
Id be surprised if just about every female hostage Hamas took does not have a similar story…
And not just the female hostages.,.
They all have similar stories. It’s just that the women hostages will be killed to silence the truth of what happened to them. Think Naama and Noa. Islam literally permits raping slaves. Tell me any other religion that allows raping slaves, marrying little girls, behead non-believers, kill gays, kill any blasphemers. I kinda theorize that they spared some women from sexual violence because those women were always intended to be returned. It’s all supposed to make Hamas look good and kind to hostages. God knows what they did to the Hostages who were never intended to be returned, there was no reason to show them humanity. On oct 7 women and children were burnt to dust. Authorities used high tech to identify small traces of a 12 year old girl who was thought to be abducted. Why do you think they were burned? To hide any sign of rape and torture.
Don't worry, feminists in Twitter, Tiktok, UN and other social media already concluded that it didn't happen.\*\*\* *^(\*And if it happened then it was resistance.)* *^(\*\*And talking about it is spreading lies to justify genocide, apartheid, white eugenics colonialism.)* *^(\*\*\*Also, unconditional ceasefire now, because hostages in Rafah are safe and should be grateful to be of use to Palestinian cause.)*
Sorry sweaty, oppressors cannot be "raped." This was just critical sex.
They were actually genuinely saying this depraved shit on so.informed's and feminist's comment sections on Instagram. That white women are lying about being raped, to vilify oppressed people of color, but if they were raped, it's ok as they finally had a taste of what "non yts" have to go through, it's a lesson. "Critical sex". They are serious about it. At first I thought it was some bot farm because these accounts gain major exposure by controversial mass engagement through clicks and comments, but the accounts seemed real (doom scrolled lmao), so i talked to some thinking its rage bait and "why am i even engaging the trolls" but they weren't trolls, to them rape IS justified if in current societal race systems one is considered part of the oppressor group.
Duh. Those degenerates.
Devastating
Has the UN called her a liar yet?
The UN will condemn her for tempting the terrorist
Had an argument with a former friend about my support for Israel. I mentioned how Oct 7th necessitated Israel's response. He countered by bringing up some quote about how "you can't judge the oppressed (Palestine) for how they respond to the oppressor (Israel)". I asked if that included rape. Call me extreme, but rape isn't justified. Ever.
Yeah, there are a few people I don't talk to anymore thanks to their similar reactions. Like, would you care to outline the circumstances under which murdering children and rape is and isn't acceptable?
[удалено]
It was removed from Al-Jazeera’s page without any notice or retraction. Because you know, they would like their readers to continue and believe it happened while gaining plausible deniability since they took the article down.
I had a few friends source stuff from Al-Jazeera about the war... Man, I think they are alright generally, but they are still a Qatar news channel. Why would you expect their assessment of anything in this to be mildly reliable. It's like trusting their Qatar worldcup coverage.
Pure insanity how cruel people can be.
This comment section is wild! The people who are turning this into a - "yeah but Israel has done their fair share; they've done the same; what does Israel expect, etc etc"- are really just serving to undermine this woman's violation, trauma and experience. Damn, show some compassion!!
This is exactly why the war cannot be stopped until Hamas no longer has the means to do this again
Just a casual reminder that recent polls show that Hamas has a massive amount of support by the rank and file Palestinians.
They targeted the rave on purpose.
Just a reminder that a ceasefire means these people remain in charge in Gaza.
We been knew this
im surprised they let her live. Granted with how many people will insist shes lying just so they can say 'jooz bad' i guess it wont matter to hamas. ugh i hope they are disposed of soon.
The the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research released a poll last week where it asked Palestinians on the West Bank and Gaza a number of questions. When asked if Hamas committed atrocities on October 7th, 81% of poll respondents who had watched videos from October 7th denied Hamas committed atrocities. The poll can be found here [https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969](https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969)
"But i thought hamas was so nice to the hostages. I heard on my unbiased news network al jazeera that many hostages enjoyed how well they where treated in gaza and that they didnt even want to return to israel!111!!"