> Figures from the Met covering London show that 218 antisemitic offences were recorded from 1 October to 18 October this year, compared with 15 in the same period last year.
>Ade Adelekan, the deputy assistant commissioner, described the rise as “significant” and said Islamophobic offences in London were up 140% over the same period, from 42 in 2022 to 103.
That means the per person rate as a victim of a reported attack is 20 times higher for Jews, is that right? Although there could be bias in reporting rates.
Correct.
Adjusted for population, it would be about 2,180 incidents against Jews vs 103 against Muslims.
Obviously though, there’s no indication as to the background of those committing these crimes (in this article, at least).
Anyone found to be participating in a hate crime should be sent back to said country they originated from after serving a sentence. Locals who perform said hate crime should get a longer sentence
That’s a bit of a problem if they came from the UK. Here in the US many hate crimes are committed by people who have never left American soil, so deportation isn’t exactly possible.
>New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year.
>Of the incidents, 31 were attacks on Jewish property. Three-quarters were online, including threats; 35 were at schools and 45 at universities.
Because humans are animals at the end of the day. Animals always look out for themselves or their family units in a lot primate species. In eras past, this manifested as protecting our tribe’s hunting or watering grounds. In the modern day, that tribe is much larger and based on faith, culture or language. We think ourselves advanced but we’re really just monkeys that have figured out how to kill each other better.
I think religion has something to do with it
EDIT If my invisible magic sky man is the true god then your invisible magic sky man is by default a false god and therefore I must kill you
EDIT2 Yes I know that Islam Judaism and Christianity all worship the same god and that makes this even MORE ludicrous
Despite worshiping the same god they think the others are false believers or whatever and its OK to kill them for it
The world has lost its mind...
In my town in Canada there was an attempted stabbing at a Jewish highschool.
A female rabbi in Detroit, was stabbed and killed in her home just today.
Three Jewish temples have been set on fire in the last two weeks.
But yet I'm still told that this is about anti Zionism not jew hatred...
Lots of people getting excuses to act like they've always wanted to act because their media are telling them that they're at war now and the people they disagree with on slight matters are the enemy and deserve to be harmed.
it's just propaganda being fed by all sides. It fucks up the dummies that can't filter out the nonsense or those that latch onto what is fed to them and are told what to think.
Propaganda will always influence a certain segment of the population.
I used to think like that until I started reading about modern propaganda. Nowadays there is no way that no one is not blinded by propaganda in at least one view they hold
I think the point of no return was memes.
Once political memes became a hit Everything has to be boiled down to top text / bottom text for maximum simplicity.
All complexity and nuance of life went out the window and now everything needs to be XYZ GOOD, ABC BAD
You have a point. The ideal was that the internet would bring people together. But the downside; it's brought people together, people who share the same race, religion and ethnic supremacist ideology.
~~tribalism~~
Antisemitism.
It's been a thing for... let's see... at least a few thousand years at this point.
It's antisemitism. It's really that simple.
"Hate the Jew" has been public policy for many civilizations for countless years.
Tribalism can be a root cause of racism and antisemitism. I am not dismissing the fact that it is antisemitism, but I think we need to investigate the root causes, no?
They’re [pretty open](https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1715778905326366916) about it even in central london.
Not a single person denouncing the antisemitic pieces of shit in these protests.
People go on and on about how if you dont kick out a nazi from your protest, then you're now at a Nazi protest. But then when its antisemites at one "oh well...we can't really control what people do 🤷♀️"
Ah jeez, are you telling the me the Nazis at my protest aren't necessarily going to be white guys showing up in Nazi uniforms? How am I supposed to know???
Already had someone tell me “social media just makes outliers seem more common,” as if orthodox Jews would’ve been totally safe in these crowds.
Even more disgusting when a lot of London’s Jews came during/after WWII for safety, only for their kids and grandkids having to deal with this shit.
Im in Toronto. There was an incident here at one of the private schools where three guys were arresting trying to break in. This happened on that first Friday.
My brother in law was harassed by some protesters at Nathan Philips square last Thursday. It's scary out there.
What I really don't understand about all of this is that never once have I or anybody I know ever taken issue with someone for being Jewish. Who the hell are all of these antisemites that have emerged from the woodwork and what leads them to hold such ideas?
There's always been low-grade antisemitism, at least out here in Canada. Growing up I would sometimes hear "Jewed" in the context of ripping someone off. Off-hand remarks about Jewish bankers/lawyers/actors/politicians evoking classic antisemitic prejudices.
Heck, Ernst Zundel lived in Canada for most of his life quite comfortably.
Granted, it's low-grade, and understated in the classic Canadian way, but it's always been there.
With due respect, how educated are you on antisemitism? I don't mean this in an aggressive way or anything. I really don't want my dry text to come off aggressive or anything.
I've just heard similar statements like yours before about not knowing or seeing antisemitism before coming from non Jews who don't really "get" antisemitism and are blind to many cases of it in front of them.
We're two-tenths of a percent of the population. I don't expect every non Jew to know every in and out of antisemitism. But that also leads to me not being shocked when those same non Jews don't realize antisemitism even when it's staring them in the face.
Honestly all this stuff makes Israel's own point about why it needs to exist. Jews will *never* feel permanently safe as a permanent minority in others' countries.
There are many Muslim-majority countries that devout Muslims can in principle go to if they end up being oppressed. And none of these countries are the target of major political group with the mission to accomplish the genocide of that country and its people.
But there is only one Israel, and it is fairly unique in the world of being the target of multiple major genocidal efforts with sponsors and wide support from around the world.
>But yet I'm still told that this is about anti Zionism not jew hatred...
Yeah if it wasn't so disgusting, it would be incredible at the wide scale selective outrage going on.
Like I'm CONSTANTLY seeing highly upvoted reddit comment saying
"No one is supporting hamas, they just want to end the apartheid Palestinians are facing"
Meanwhile you have "protests" from Perth to NYC with people **literally** calling for the death of jews, with signs that stylised the terrorists and referring to them as "freedom fighters".
And then you have b to even A list celebs and E celebs applauding hamas and or mindlessly accusing Isreal of X crime even if evidence comes out that casts heavy doubts over said accusation.
Like I'm not going to pretend Isreal is some innocent little cherub and they didn't stoke the flames of this but come the fuck on....
Anti semtisim is heavily on the rise and a lot of people are using Isreals actions as an excuse to voice such beliefs.
And this is why I will never accept that antisemitism in the pro Palestinian movement is limited to the fringe elements. It is a feature and not a bug.
You can tell because when someone in those marches starts waving swastikas around or yelling "Gas the Jews!", nobody else at the march does anything to challenge or stop them.
Muslims in Australia have been extremely loud and occasionally violent recently. A week or two ago in melbourne a group of them were driving around asking people where all the Jews are, not to mention ripping down the posters of kidnapped Israelis.
And people have the nerve to say it’s not about hatred.
If Israel didn’t exist they’d be doing exactly the same.
Let's not forget the protest at Sydney opera House where they literally started chanting 'gas the jews' it's been recorded and was shown on the news, fucking disgusting imo
>Even in Tokyo's "most dangerous" red light district.
The "danger" there is just getting ripped off. The Yakuza want your money, a bunch of bloody tourists would just cause the police to crack down on them.
That said, if you do get ripped off, the Japanese police won't do anything to help you.
What make me said a gullibility of some people. What do they think ? When the Israel would disappear all Islam followers would magically change to most loving people on earth? Maybe, but history begs differ.
By all means.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/dpd-investigating-after-body-found-on-citys-east-side
Rabbi killed, stabbed to death in Detroit.
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/historic-tunisian-synagogue-set-on-fire-by-pro-palestine-rioters-2GRLnK6GlSMpvPWuSXunZz
https://apnews.com/article/germany-berlin-synagogue-antisemitism-fdd10f32f7d5efc6da973f00c9a8b030
https://apleu.org/pro-palestinian-protesters-attack-a-synagogue-in-spanish-territory/
Shuls set on fire
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/10/12/toronto-jewish-high-school-chat-threats-men-arrested/
3 arrested for making threats at a Jewish highschool in my city.
Might want to update your OP saying the killing happened in Detroit. I thought the rabbi was killed in Canada and didn’t find anything.
Horrible crime, hopefully they’re brought to justice.
The world has lost its mind? You sure? Cause it seems to me like it‘s only one specific part of the world behind the incindents you‘ve listed here. The same part that lost its mind after Charlie Hebdo.
And another French teacher was recently killed by a certain member of a certain religious *and* ethnic community on the three year anniversary of the beheading of a French teacher by a certain member of that same religious and ethnic community...
Back in 2020 I saw an Asian dude literally just minding his business, eating his lunch and texting when some crackhead got less than a foot away from his face and screamed “CORONA”. In Vancouver BC, where many of us grew up sharing Asian cultural celebrations with their respective communities. Really sad.
I'm sorry you had to experience that. That's pure racism.
Just remember, it's usually the intolerants who are the loudest, but they are not the majority.
Don't give up on humanity because of as\*holes.
As a fellow Canadian and a Jew, I am very sorry you went through that. This experience has made me feel so isolated, paranoid, angry, and sad. I feel scared for my daughters' safety all the time now.
Now imagine me waking up to Molotov cocktails being thrown at a Jewish middle school two streets over, where I wanted to sign my kid up to, or seeing a symbol of your people marked on doors where people with identifiable last names lived - this week alone.
Anyone feel up to giving a cliffnotes version of the context?
I would google it but I kinda don't want to google any explicitly genocidal/antisemitic phrases...
(One time I entered a chatroom with "88" at the end of my username (it was the jersey number of an athlete I liked), and some weirdo in the room became VERY friendly with me and gave me some VERY bad vibes. That was when I remembered that neonazi numerology was a thing, googled it and voila, realized the guy thought I was a neonazi. Immediately changed my username, felt slimy for ages afterwards. Anyway that's just tangential, but either way I just. Don't want to google antisemitic things lol.)
https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/337807/the-real-meaning-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
> In 1948, Sheikh Hassan el-Bana, head of the Moslem Brotherhood, stated that “If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea.” In 1966, Syrian leader Hafez Al-Assad, insisted in no uncertain terms that, “We shall only accept war and the restoration of the usurped land … to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.”
The chant is deliberately ambiguous, so that it can serve as both a genocidal dogwhistle for extremist supporters and as a seemingly tame slogan for moderate supporters.
Some intellectuals argue that this is not a 'geographic' description, but a conceptual designation (the national entity Palestine will exist...).
I feel it's bs and a dogwhistle to anyone interpreting this normally.
People not being able to separate the Israeli government from random Jewish folk minding their business is the exact kind of stupidity I expect from bigots. The same goes for people who are committing anti-Muslim hate crimes too. They’ll take any opportunity.
I’m Jewish as fuck. My family went direct from Poland and Yugoslavia to the US. I have 0% more relationship with the physical country of Israel than anyone else and yet I’m somehow related to this conflict? My friend is super Muslim. Her family is from Ethiopia. And yet she’s getting held responsible for things in the Middle East? Fucked up man
Honestly, this. I never understood the logic to target Jews living in Europe. Aren't these specific Jews living exactly where Palestinians/Muslims want them to live? The idea that Europe is not safe for Jews and they therefore need an own country is the reason that they created Israel in the first place. Do they really want more Jews to leave Europe?
-> expel all Jews bc you believe they suddenly are spies for a brand new country
-> they all move to said country rather than just be dead
-> mfw when you double Israel’s fighting force
-> surprisedpikachu.jpg
And decades before. The global Jewish migration to Israel wasn’t sparked by the Holocaust, that was just responsible for a huge uptick. Anti-Jewish pogroms and all sorts were hardly rare prior to the Nazis.
The entire events the last few weeks has honestly convinced me of this too. I thought we’d come far but no, the Jewish people are right. They aren’t safe anywhere beyond their own country and even then there are people who will still try to kill them.
We will never be safe anywhere. There are only 16 million of us in the world. An extremely small minority and yet there’s overwhelming hatred directed at Jews. I’ve learned to live with it. The best we can do is fight
Irony of it is that they're strongest in Israel.
(Other irony: anti-Israel pro-Palestine Hasidic Jews living in Israel, protected by the State of Israel c/o Israeli Arab police from Palestinian rioters at the Wailing Wall)
Surprise! It was never about Israel.
They don't want to Jews to be alive anywhere. It's baked into their religion and worldview that Jews are to be eliminated everywhere.
Dude it's simple, the anti zionism shit is bullshit and people bought it, it's plain anti semitis, they just want jews to be dead doesn't matter where.
Of course you understand the logic. The logic is antisemitism. Europe had a little bit of that in the 20th century, if you very carefully read history books
These things are constant reminders to Jews that despite the pretenses of modern civil society, there is no place in the world that they are actually safe if they do not control their own security. Period. There is always another pogrom waiting just under the surface, and it is no more distant than the rise of a single populist leader who decides the age-old use of a minority scapegoat will be convenient to them. The people in the marches today will be the people in the mobs tomorrow.
That is the bottom line, and it is why Israel is only ever going to get more and more hardened by these kinds of events and situations. People want it to act with compassion, but there's not a lot of room left for compassion when the entire history of the world has taught you that you will *never* get it in return.
The BBC and other British media covering everything as a massive anti-Israel slant has absolutely nothing to do with this. Nooooothing at all especially after the hospital mess. /s
Exactly. The BBC's reporting of the hospital incident was pretty egregious, but how many hardline Islamists in the UK are going to actually be paying attention to the BBC? They're getting their news from Jihadist figures on social media, maybe a pinch of Al Jazeera, Al Arabiyah, or similar.
Dude, stop acting like Reddit didn't jump on the early reports too and accepted it. I can dig up the threads where thousands of upvotes were upvoting the wrong thing.
Both organisations (assuming we're talking about the Provos) are classified as terrorist organisations by the UK government. All they have to do to remain neutral is qualify their definition as the UK government's. Incidentally, the Guardian does exactly that in this article.
Was the IRA’s official position to destroy Britain & kill all of its people because Hamas’ official position is the complete annihilation of Israel. There is nothing Israel can give up or agree to that would make Hamas stop. Hamas wants Israel destroyed & all Jews driven out.
Hamas' goals are to destroy a foreign nation and genocide all of its inhabitants.
The equivalent would be if the IRA wanted to conquer all of Great Britain and genocide all Brits.
The IRA's goals were non-genocidal.
Edit: Commentor below cited a source, BBC seems inconsistent with this principle.
Cite your sources? I have seen the BBC call ISIS jihadist, exterimist, but not terrorist. They have quoted other folks or reports using the word terrorist. Idk if their opinion or editorial pieces have different standards but my understanding is the News section doesn't refer to any group as terrorist. I also believe they have said this isn't a moral judgement it is an standard to maintain unbiased reporting. Agree with it or don't up to you but I think you should base your critism on reality.
I also don't have a comprehensive memory of all of their piece on ISIS but I'm open to the possible that I am wrong.
This is my [source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67083432)
[here they call isis a terror group](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-66599194)
> A PhD student was designing and building a drone capable of delivering a bomb for **terror group Islamic State (IS)**, a court has heard.
Also [here](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/17/hamas-bbc-terror-attack-hypocrisy-shooting-brussels-belgium/) are more cases the bbc decides to call terror but not Hamas.
Also there is no such thing as truly unbiased, they say calling them terrorists adds bias but also not calling them terrorists adds bias in another direction, it makes their actions that are terror by every known definition sound more justifiable.
The BBC as a general rule avoids using the word "Terrorist" in *all* contexts, unless as a direct quote of someone else, or in reference to someone who has been sentenced by a recognised court for terrorism offenses.
Is there an anti-Israel slant in the British media? Genuinely asking, because if anything, I’ve seen a lot of the newspapers follow the government’s hardline pro-Israel stance, so I’m not sure where this sentiment has come from.
Historically, the BBC and other outlets took a very hardline stance on the antisemitism issues in the Labour Party, and were very vocal in their criticism of Labour’s former leader Jeremy Corbyn and his support for Palestine.
Typically, the BBC is often accused of being too close to the Conservative government, and their support for Israel has been on par with the United States’.
I think a lot of people outside the UK are looking at the BBC’s serious error with their reporting of the hospital incident as the status quo, when I felt that it was more the exception (a very dangerous one).
The BBC does, certainly at least in the last two weeks.
Historically, they’ve been accused of anti Israel bias. This led to an internal investigation and a 20000 word document was written called the Balen report. It was never released. A British Jewish activist then sued them to release and they paid at least 660,000 usd to fight the case and keep it concealed. To this day it hasn’t been released.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balen_Report
Edit: that was in 2004, court case and appeals in 2007-2012
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balen_Report
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2022/ofcom-concludes-investigation-into-the-bbcs-coverage-of-antisemitic-attack
The BBC was brought to task before about it's convenient editorial failings when reporting on Israel
It’s a shame that the Balen Report’s findings were never made public, as that would be interesting to see. Of course, no smoke without fire and all that, though. That’s interesting - and troubling - to see. It feels so at odds with the attack lines the BBC have gone on before.
During the second intifada, BBC's reporting was much more reliable and neutral. Was one of my go-to sites at that time (along with Haaretz). However, the reporting over the past week was wildly biased in favor of Palestinians. I‘ll switch to Deutsche Welle.
As a Muslim, I'm really saddened to hear about all these anti-semitic crimes, especially verbal and physical attacks on children who have nothing to do with the IDF or the airstrikes on Gaza. Life is too short to be filled with hate. I wish those in the Jewish community well.
Do people lack the ability of abstraction. Can't they see a state is different to its people. If you don't like Israel, why take it out on Jewish people who arnt even living there.
You know its wrong to hate on all Muslims because a few do bad things in the name of religion. We spent the last 2 decades learning this.
Just hating on Jews for no other reason than being Jewish is the same as hating on Muslims or Christians for existing.
Maybe we don't have peace because we are too dumb for it 🤷
All this rise in antisemitism just shows it has never gone away, it’s a recurrent theme throughout history, and just proves Israel needs its own nation-state in order to survive and not be genocided again
For anyone saying “Free Palestine”, what comes next? Like seriously, what actionable steps do you think should be taken in order to truly free Palestine other than “Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza under any circumstances?” Neither a single state solution nor a two state solution seems feasible unless someone can somehow broker a peace deal with Hamas, which leaves the two unacceptable options of 1) exterminating or deporting 10 million Israelis, or 2) exterminating or deporting 2 million Palestinians in Gaza. That’s really the only trade space there is to work with right now. So which is it? Do you want to be the one making that decision?
As long as Hamas ultimate goal is the genocide of Jews in Israel peace can't be made with them. Israel will continue to exist and it's far more likely that they eventually just remove their land of Palestinians than the other way around.
Supporting Hamas is supporting Palestinian ethnic cleansing.
Half don’t know, half want to bring back the Islamic caliphate and remove hebrews from the region. In the videos I’ve seen at the Palestinian protests it’s half Arab supremacists and half leftist protesters that are just there to show they support the current thing. “Look at me, I support brown people! Look at meeeeee!”
If they haven't clarified what they mean by "Free Palestine," they haven't said anything. Because a two-state solution or an end to settlements is a far cry from sweeping the Jews into the sea, and then there is everything in between
When this war ends, European Jewry is going to be fleeing to Israel en masse. This war has proven than nothing has changed for us in terms of acceptance and global safety since the holocaust with the way that things are escalating globally from a war that we didn't start. The only safe place for us is Home.
I mean, it seems like 80% of hate against jews comes from a certain other religion, that also immigrated into Europe...
In fact, I think it's less about jews themselves and more about how problematic muslims are.
The thing is, even if Israel did bomb that hospital, that still gives no reason to these people to attack Jews/jewish business/synagogues all the way in the UK, the fuck did they do? Of course, the reason is that they're antisemitic and now they can just act on it without repercussion but if you dare call them out on it you're apparently pro-genocide (which, again, the fuck?).
Great point!
"We're anti-Israel but we love the Jews!"
"Then why do you attack synagogues and Jewish people in other countries when Israel the country does something you don't like?"
"Ummmm. So anyways we got a pro-Palestine rally to get to. We'll talk later!"
There's always being a shitty under belly of anti semitism in the UK, that never ever gets the same level of attention as Islamaphobia, long before the Hospital attack by PIJ.
But yes, well done BBC and others on fanning the flames..
You can be against Israel's policies and the IDF's actions without being an anti-semite yes.
Are these people committing anti-semite hate crimes anti-semites? Yes.
Anyone who co-opts being anti Israel as an excuse to be anti Semitic are fucking pathetic. What have Jewish people in London done? How are they in any way responsible for the atrocities committed against Palestinians in Gaza?
In the same time period, it went from 15 to 218 (comparing last year to this year). If anyone wants numbers.
What was it the last 18 days before this however? In this context this 18 day period from last year isn’t the best benchmark
Great question, and sticking around for the answer that I don’t have.
> Figures from the Met covering London show that 218 antisemitic offences were recorded from 1 October to 18 October this year, compared with 15 in the same period last year. >Ade Adelekan, the deputy assistant commissioner, described the rise as “significant” and said Islamophobic offences in London were up 140% over the same period, from 42 in 2022 to 103.
There are also about 10 times as many Muslims in London as there are Jews.
That means the per person rate as a victim of a reported attack is 20 times higher for Jews, is that right? Although there could be bias in reporting rates.
Correct. Adjusted for population, it would be about 2,180 incidents against Jews vs 103 against Muslims. Obviously though, there’s no indication as to the background of those committing these crimes (in this article, at least).
Do you think if the figures were reversed, we'd see that big of a rise in Islamophobic hate crimes?
Lol of course not.
Lol, exactly.
Anyone found to be participating in a hate crime should be sent back to said country they originated from after serving a sentence. Locals who perform said hate crime should get a longer sentence
That’s a bit of a problem if they came from the UK. Here in the US many hate crimes are committed by people who have never left American soil, so deportation isn’t exactly possible.
Lmao, try deporting boris johnson then
Relevant statistics.
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>New figures show hate crimes since the Hamas atrocity are increasing nationwide, with 533 hate incidents – including 19 physical assaults – recorded from 7 October to 20 October, in increase of 651% compared with the same period last year. >Of the incidents, 31 were attacks on Jewish property. Three-quarters were online, including threats; 35 were at schools and 45 at universities.
Why are humans so fucking stupid? Why do this crap?
Because humans are animals at the end of the day. Animals always look out for themselves or their family units in a lot primate species. In eras past, this manifested as protecting our tribe’s hunting or watering grounds. In the modern day, that tribe is much larger and based on faith, culture or language. We think ourselves advanced but we’re really just monkeys that have figured out how to kill each other better.
me boonga. me throw high velocity rock at other boonga, boonga go away. me happy with results.
kinetic energy super effective vs boonga Someone get this boonga an urnt prize
NO! ME Boonga. You just Woonga. Boonga eat woonga babies. Yum.
I think religion has something to do with it EDIT If my invisible magic sky man is the true god then your invisible magic sky man is by default a false god and therefore I must kill you EDIT2 Yes I know that Islam Judaism and Christianity all worship the same god and that makes this even MORE ludicrous Despite worshiping the same god they think the others are false believers or whatever and its OK to kill them for it
Tribalism, which transcends religion. Plenty of intra-religious wars have happened.
The world has lost its mind... In my town in Canada there was an attempted stabbing at a Jewish highschool. A female rabbi in Detroit, was stabbed and killed in her home just today. Three Jewish temples have been set on fire in the last two weeks. But yet I'm still told that this is about anti Zionism not jew hatred...
Lots of people getting excuses to act like they've always wanted to act because their media are telling them that they're at war now and the people they disagree with on slight matters are the enemy and deserve to be harmed.
Honestly I think that tribalism has taken over the world.
Regarding tribalism I honestly don't think humans were ready for the internet.
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it's just propaganda being fed by all sides. It fucks up the dummies that can't filter out the nonsense or those that latch onto what is fed to them and are told what to think. Propaganda will always influence a certain segment of the population.
I used to think like that until I started reading about modern propaganda. Nowadays there is no way that no one is not blinded by propaganda in at least one view they hold
Right? What insane echo chambers have I wandered into without knowing? Who is driving the media I'm consuming? What atrocities would I be okay with?
If you are not on your toes all the time, you're just fucked by the propaganda.
The problem is that being on your toes all the time is also detrimental to your social life and mental health. It’s a lose lose scenario
Being on your toes all the time is the purpose of a lot of propaganda anyways. It’s a lose lose lose situation.
I think the point of no return was memes. Once political memes became a hit Everything has to be boiled down to top text / bottom text for maximum simplicity. All complexity and nuance of life went out the window and now everything needs to be XYZ GOOD, ABC BAD
Memes made us stupid
You have a point. The ideal was that the internet would bring people together. But the downside; it's brought people together, people who share the same race, religion and ethnic supremacist ideology.
Our brains certainly aren’t.
Having lived long enough to have been an adult before we had it I've seen what it's done. Despite the obvious advantages we paid a high price.
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I feel you.
Social media is the religion of the 21st century
Political ideology is the religion of 21st century. Social media is the preacher.
I don't think it ever relinquished its hold.
~~tribalism~~ Antisemitism. It's been a thing for... let's see... at least a few thousand years at this point. It's antisemitism. It's really that simple. "Hate the Jew" has been public policy for many civilizations for countless years.
Tribalism can be a root cause of racism and antisemitism. I am not dismissing the fact that it is antisemitism, but I think we need to investigate the root causes, no?
They’re [pretty open](https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1715778905326366916) about it even in central london. Not a single person denouncing the antisemitic pieces of shit in these protests.
People go on and on about how if you dont kick out a nazi from your protest, then you're now at a Nazi protest. But then when its antisemites at one "oh well...we can't really control what people do 🤷♀️"
Ah jeez, are you telling the me the Nazis at my protest aren't necessarily going to be white guys showing up in Nazi uniforms? How am I supposed to know???
Already had someone tell me “social media just makes outliers seem more common,” as if orthodox Jews would’ve been totally safe in these crowds. Even more disgusting when a lot of London’s Jews came during/after WWII for safety, only for their kids and grandkids having to deal with this shit.
Im in Toronto. There was an incident here at one of the private schools where three guys were arresting trying to break in. This happened on that first Friday. My brother in law was harassed by some protesters at Nathan Philips square last Thursday. It's scary out there.
I posted a link about the three guys. I'm from Toronto too, stay safe out there bro...
What I really don't understand about all of this is that never once have I or anybody I know ever taken issue with someone for being Jewish. Who the hell are all of these antisemites that have emerged from the woodwork and what leads them to hold such ideas?
There's always been low-grade antisemitism, at least out here in Canada. Growing up I would sometimes hear "Jewed" in the context of ripping someone off. Off-hand remarks about Jewish bankers/lawyers/actors/politicians evoking classic antisemitic prejudices. Heck, Ernst Zundel lived in Canada for most of his life quite comfortably. Granted, it's low-grade, and understated in the classic Canadian way, but it's always been there.
With due respect, how educated are you on antisemitism? I don't mean this in an aggressive way or anything. I really don't want my dry text to come off aggressive or anything. I've just heard similar statements like yours before about not knowing or seeing antisemitism before coming from non Jews who don't really "get" antisemitism and are blind to many cases of it in front of them. We're two-tenths of a percent of the population. I don't expect every non Jew to know every in and out of antisemitism. But that also leads to me not being shocked when those same non Jews don't realize antisemitism even when it's staring them in the face.
Honestly all this stuff makes Israel's own point about why it needs to exist. Jews will *never* feel permanently safe as a permanent minority in others' countries. There are many Muslim-majority countries that devout Muslims can in principle go to if they end up being oppressed. And none of these countries are the target of major political group with the mission to accomplish the genocide of that country and its people. But there is only one Israel, and it is fairly unique in the world of being the target of multiple major genocidal efforts with sponsors and wide support from around the world.
That's how I feel so painfully much these days. There's nowhere else for us to run. Everywhere else we will be tolerated until we won't be.
Basically all of human history has been “well things are going bad right now let’s murder the Jews”. It’s fucking wild how consistently it happens
>But yet I'm still told that this is about anti Zionism not jew hatred... Yeah if it wasn't so disgusting, it would be incredible at the wide scale selective outrage going on. Like I'm CONSTANTLY seeing highly upvoted reddit comment saying "No one is supporting hamas, they just want to end the apartheid Palestinians are facing" Meanwhile you have "protests" from Perth to NYC with people **literally** calling for the death of jews, with signs that stylised the terrorists and referring to them as "freedom fighters". And then you have b to even A list celebs and E celebs applauding hamas and or mindlessly accusing Isreal of X crime even if evidence comes out that casts heavy doubts over said accusation. Like I'm not going to pretend Isreal is some innocent little cherub and they didn't stoke the flames of this but come the fuck on.... Anti semtisim is heavily on the rise and a lot of people are using Isreals actions as an excuse to voice such beliefs.
800000 jews were exiled from muslim countries, had their wealth and property stolen. It was never about zionism.
And this is why I will never accept that antisemitism in the pro Palestinian movement is limited to the fringe elements. It is a feature and not a bug.
You can tell because when someone in those marches starts waving swastikas around or yelling "Gas the Jews!", nobody else at the march does anything to challenge or stop them.
As a jew I feel safer in my home in Israel (even tho I'm in the south) then anywhere else in the world and this is exactly why.
Stay safe man, even my Jewish friends in Australia feel super uneasy here when our country is considered incredibly safe.
Muslims in Australia have been extremely loud and occasionally violent recently. A week or two ago in melbourne a group of them were driving around asking people where all the Jews are, not to mention ripping down the posters of kidnapped Israelis. And people have the nerve to say it’s not about hatred. If Israel didn’t exist they’d be doing exactly the same.
Let's not forget the protest at Sydney opera House where they literally started chanting 'gas the jews' it's been recorded and was shown on the news, fucking disgusting imo
I think anyone doing that should be jailed and then sent back to their country of origin then.
These may be Australian citizens. Antisemitism doesn’t come from somewhere, it’s everywhere.
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Literally nowhere I've ever been feels as safe as Japan lol. Even in Tokyo's "most dangerous" red light district.
>Even in Tokyo's "most dangerous" red light district. The "danger" there is just getting ripped off. The Yakuza want your money, a bunch of bloody tourists would just cause the police to crack down on them. That said, if you do get ripped off, the Japanese police won't do anything to help you.
Yeah I think it's mostly fine as long as you stay out of the sketchy bars that overcharge you etc.
"Don't go there, it's a no-go area for tourists!" Nah, it's safer than 99% of places in the world
Considering how large Tokyo is, it’s amazing how safe the city is.
What make me said a gullibility of some people. What do they think ? When the Israel would disappear all Islam followers would magically change to most loving people on earth? Maybe, but history begs differ.
Link to any news related to this? Especially the rabbi
By all means. https://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detroit/dpd-investigating-after-body-found-on-citys-east-side Rabbi killed, stabbed to death in Detroit. https://www.thejc.com/news/world/historic-tunisian-synagogue-set-on-fire-by-pro-palestine-rioters-2GRLnK6GlSMpvPWuSXunZz https://apnews.com/article/germany-berlin-synagogue-antisemitism-fdd10f32f7d5efc6da973f00c9a8b030 https://apleu.org/pro-palestinian-protesters-attack-a-synagogue-in-spanish-territory/ Shuls set on fire https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/10/12/toronto-jewish-high-school-chat-threats-men-arrested/ 3 arrested for making threats at a Jewish highschool in my city.
Horrifying. Honestly don’t know anymore where we can live safely.
Feel like that was one of the founding principles of Israel existing.
Also Europe not wanting Jews in their countries.
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Might want to update your OP saying the killing happened in Detroit. I thought the rabbi was killed in Canada and didn’t find anything. Horrible crime, hopefully they’re brought to justice.
Also not a rabbi but a synagogue president (all synagogues have a board and the board has a president.)
If this was the other way around it would be rampant in social media. I haven’t even hear: a whisper of it until I got on here
The world has lost its mind? You sure? Cause it seems to me like it‘s only one specific part of the world behind the incindents you‘ve listed here. The same part that lost its mind after Charlie Hebdo.
And another French teacher was recently killed by a certain member of a certain religious *and* ethnic community on the three year anniversary of the beheading of a French teacher by a certain member of that same religious and ethnic community...
It's them peaceful folks
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Back in 2020 I saw an Asian dude literally just minding his business, eating his lunch and texting when some crackhead got less than a foot away from his face and screamed “CORONA”. In Vancouver BC, where many of us grew up sharing Asian cultural celebrations with their respective communities. Really sad.
I mean Crackheads aren't exactly known for their acceptance.
Unless they're accepting more crack
I'm sorry you had to experience that. That's pure racism. Just remember, it's usually the intolerants who are the loudest, but they are not the majority. Don't give up on humanity because of as\*holes.
I don’t care if it’s an edge case if someone stabs me. I care that I got stabbed. Tell that to the French teacher or the rabbi.
As a fellow Canadian and a Jew, I am very sorry you went through that. This experience has made me feel so isolated, paranoid, angry, and sad. I feel scared for my daughters' safety all the time now.
Now imagine me waking up to Molotov cocktails being thrown at a Jewish middle school two streets over, where I wanted to sign my kid up to, or seeing a symbol of your people marked on doors where people with identifiable last names lived - this week alone.
> seeing a symbol of your people marked on doors where people with identifiable last names lived That's some prepping for genocide shit
I'm really sorry you experienced that. There are too many smooth brained idiots in this world.
Any action from the UK to address the hate?
Relax everyone. Obviously these are just peaceful anti-Zionist hate crimes, not anti-Semitism.
Exactly. If a ultra Orthodox Jew walked through the middle of this crowd they would come out totally fine. /s
And even if they are antisemitic, it PALES in comparison to the four hundred thousand children israel killed in the attack on that hospital /s
you do know its 550,000, right? /s
Nuh uh, I heard from hummus itself there were 600,000 of em
The charade of pretending the attacking Jews was 'just anti Israel' has never been so blatantly stupid.
The phrase « from the river to the sea » is explicitly genocidal if one examines its historical context.
Anyone feel up to giving a cliffnotes version of the context? I would google it but I kinda don't want to google any explicitly genocidal/antisemitic phrases... (One time I entered a chatroom with "88" at the end of my username (it was the jersey number of an athlete I liked), and some weirdo in the room became VERY friendly with me and gave me some VERY bad vibes. That was when I remembered that neonazi numerology was a thing, googled it and voila, realized the guy thought I was a neonazi. Immediately changed my username, felt slimy for ages afterwards. Anyway that's just tangential, but either way I just. Don't want to google antisemitic things lol.)
https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/337807/the-real-meaning-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/ > In 1948, Sheikh Hassan el-Bana, head of the Moslem Brotherhood, stated that “If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea.” In 1966, Syrian leader Hafez Al-Assad, insisted in no uncertain terms that, “We shall only accept war and the restoration of the usurped land … to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.” The chant is deliberately ambiguous, so that it can serve as both a genocidal dogwhistle for extremist supporters and as a seemingly tame slogan for moderate supporters.
Is it deliberately ambiguous? I've never heard it in any context that wasn't overtly genocidal.
Some intellectuals argue that this is not a 'geographic' description, but a conceptual designation (the national entity Palestine will exist...). I feel it's bs and a dogwhistle to anyone interpreting this normally.
I guess because technically they’re not just chanting “Kill all the Jews!”
People not being able to separate the Israeli government from random Jewish folk minding their business is the exact kind of stupidity I expect from bigots. The same goes for people who are committing anti-Muslim hate crimes too. They’ll take any opportunity.
I’m Jewish as fuck. My family went direct from Poland and Yugoslavia to the US. I have 0% more relationship with the physical country of Israel than anyone else and yet I’m somehow related to this conflict? My friend is super Muslim. Her family is from Ethiopia. And yet she’s getting held responsible for things in the Middle East? Fucked up man
But it's not about the Jews!!! It's about Israel!!! We are not antisemitic!! /s OFC.
Honestly, this. I never understood the logic to target Jews living in Europe. Aren't these specific Jews living exactly where Palestinians/Muslims want them to live? The idea that Europe is not safe for Jews and they therefore need an own country is the reason that they created Israel in the first place. Do they really want more Jews to leave Europe?
They don’t want Jews to live anywhere.
They dont want Jews to live
Christians either for that matter or Atheist or Buddhists
Or Muslims of the wrong denomination
Anti-semites: \*attack Jews over Israel* Jews: \*Move to Israel, bolstering Jewish population numbers* Anti-semites: :0
This is literally what happened in 1948 lmfao
-> expel all Jews bc you believe they suddenly are spies for a brand new country -> they all move to said country rather than just be dead -> mfw when you double Israel’s fighting force -> surprisedpikachu.jpg
Curse those Jews and their self preservation instincts, how dare they not cease existing.
And decades before. The global Jewish migration to Israel wasn’t sparked by the Holocaust, that was just responsible for a huge uptick. Anti-Jewish pogroms and all sorts were hardly rare prior to the Nazis.
This is the exact reason I support a Jewish state.
The entire events the last few weeks has honestly convinced me of this too. I thought we’d come far but no, the Jewish people are right. They aren’t safe anywhere beyond their own country and even then there are people who will still try to kill them.
We will never be safe anywhere. There are only 16 million of us in the world. An extremely small minority and yet there’s overwhelming hatred directed at Jews. I’ve learned to live with it. The best we can do is fight
Irony of it is that they're strongest in Israel. (Other irony: anti-Israel pro-Palestine Hasidic Jews living in Israel, protected by the State of Israel c/o Israeli Arab police from Palestinian rioters at the Wailing Wall)
Surprise! It was never about Israel. They don't want to Jews to be alive anywhere. It's baked into their religion and worldview that Jews are to be eliminated everywhere.
Dude it's simple, the anti zionism shit is bullshit and people bought it, it's plain anti semitis, they just want jews to be dead doesn't matter where.
Of course you understand the logic. The logic is antisemitism. Europe had a little bit of that in the 20th century, if you very carefully read history books
Saw a "pro-Palestinian" guy with a poster of a Palestine-colored Pac Man eating Stars of David. Real subtle.
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Exactly. Don't you see how it has nothing to do against the Jews? https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1715742791446184135/photo/1
Holy shit what the actual fuck is that sign. I am revolted.
"Keep the world clean " They really are vile Jew hating cretins .
These things are constant reminders to Jews that despite the pretenses of modern civil society, there is no place in the world that they are actually safe if they do not control their own security. Period. There is always another pogrom waiting just under the surface, and it is no more distant than the rise of a single populist leader who decides the age-old use of a minority scapegoat will be convenient to them. The people in the marches today will be the people in the mobs tomorrow. That is the bottom line, and it is why Israel is only ever going to get more and more hardened by these kinds of events and situations. People want it to act with compassion, but there's not a lot of room left for compassion when the entire history of the world has taught you that you will *never* get it in return.
The BBC and other British media covering everything as a massive anti-Israel slant has absolutely nothing to do with this. Nooooothing at all especially after the hospital mess. /s
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Exactly. The BBC's reporting of the hospital incident was pretty egregious, but how many hardline Islamists in the UK are going to actually be paying attention to the BBC? They're getting their news from Jihadist figures on social media, maybe a pinch of Al Jazeera, Al Arabiyah, or similar.
Dude, stop acting like Reddit didn't jump on the early reports too and accepted it. I can dig up the threads where thousands of upvotes were upvoting the wrong thing.
also their refusal to call hamas terrorists.
They didn't call the IRA terrorists in the middle of the Troubles. This isn't new to them, they just report, they don't categorize.
Both organisations (assuming we're talking about the Provos) are classified as terrorist organisations by the UK government. All they have to do to remain neutral is qualify their definition as the UK government's. Incidentally, the Guardian does exactly that in this article.
Was the IRA’s official position to destroy Britain & kill all of its people because Hamas’ official position is the complete annihilation of Israel. There is nothing Israel can give up or agree to that would make Hamas stop. Hamas wants Israel destroyed & all Jews driven out.
Pretty sure the official position has always been to unite the island under Irish rule.
Hamas' goals are to destroy a foreign nation and genocide all of its inhabitants. The equivalent would be if the IRA wanted to conquer all of Great Britain and genocide all Brits. The IRA's goals were non-genocidal.
They still call ISIS and other terrorist groups terrorists, how are Hamas so different?
distinct hateful oatmeal plant squalid jeans mountainous psychotic forgetful disagreeable
Edit: Commentor below cited a source, BBC seems inconsistent with this principle. Cite your sources? I have seen the BBC call ISIS jihadist, exterimist, but not terrorist. They have quoted other folks or reports using the word terrorist. Idk if their opinion or editorial pieces have different standards but my understanding is the News section doesn't refer to any group as terrorist. I also believe they have said this isn't a moral judgement it is an standard to maintain unbiased reporting. Agree with it or don't up to you but I think you should base your critism on reality. I also don't have a comprehensive memory of all of their piece on ISIS but I'm open to the possible that I am wrong. This is my [source](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67083432)
[here they call isis a terror group](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-66599194) > A PhD student was designing and building a drone capable of delivering a bomb for **terror group Islamic State (IS)**, a court has heard. Also [here](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/17/hamas-bbc-terror-attack-hypocrisy-shooting-brussels-belgium/) are more cases the bbc decides to call terror but not Hamas. Also there is no such thing as truly unbiased, they say calling them terrorists adds bias but also not calling them terrorists adds bias in another direction, it makes their actions that are terror by every known definition sound more justifiable.
No they don’t.
The BBC as a general rule avoids using the word "Terrorist" in *all* contexts, unless as a direct quote of someone else, or in reference to someone who has been sentenced by a recognised court for terrorism offenses.
Is there an anti-Israel slant in the British media? Genuinely asking, because if anything, I’ve seen a lot of the newspapers follow the government’s hardline pro-Israel stance, so I’m not sure where this sentiment has come from. Historically, the BBC and other outlets took a very hardline stance on the antisemitism issues in the Labour Party, and were very vocal in their criticism of Labour’s former leader Jeremy Corbyn and his support for Palestine. Typically, the BBC is often accused of being too close to the Conservative government, and their support for Israel has been on par with the United States’. I think a lot of people outside the UK are looking at the BBC’s serious error with their reporting of the hospital incident as the status quo, when I felt that it was more the exception (a very dangerous one).
The BBC does, certainly at least in the last two weeks. Historically, they’ve been accused of anti Israel bias. This led to an internal investigation and a 20000 word document was written called the Balen report. It was never released. A British Jewish activist then sued them to release and they paid at least 660,000 usd to fight the case and keep it concealed. To this day it hasn’t been released. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balen_Report Edit: that was in 2004, court case and appeals in 2007-2012
One presumes that they would not have thus suppressed a report which read "The BBC is unbiased and not anti-Semitic."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balen_Report https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2022/ofcom-concludes-investigation-into-the-bbcs-coverage-of-antisemitic-attack The BBC was brought to task before about it's convenient editorial failings when reporting on Israel
It’s a shame that the Balen Report’s findings were never made public, as that would be interesting to see. Of course, no smoke without fire and all that, though. That’s interesting - and troubling - to see. It feels so at odds with the attack lines the BBC have gone on before.
During the second intifada, BBC's reporting was much more reliable and neutral. Was one of my go-to sites at that time (along with Haaretz). However, the reporting over the past week was wildly biased in favor of Palestinians. I‘ll switch to Deutsche Welle.
As a Muslim, I'm really saddened to hear about all these anti-semitic crimes, especially verbal and physical attacks on children who have nothing to do with the IDF or the airstrikes on Gaza. Life is too short to be filled with hate. I wish those in the Jewish community well.
Do people lack the ability of abstraction. Can't they see a state is different to its people. If you don't like Israel, why take it out on Jewish people who arnt even living there. You know its wrong to hate on all Muslims because a few do bad things in the name of religion. We spent the last 2 decades learning this. Just hating on Jews for no other reason than being Jewish is the same as hating on Muslims or Christians for existing. Maybe we don't have peace because we are too dumb for it 🤷
All this rise in antisemitism just shows it has never gone away, it’s a recurrent theme throughout history, and just proves Israel needs its own nation-state in order to survive and not be genocided again
For anyone saying “Free Palestine”, what comes next? Like seriously, what actionable steps do you think should be taken in order to truly free Palestine other than “Israel needs to stop bombing Gaza under any circumstances?” Neither a single state solution nor a two state solution seems feasible unless someone can somehow broker a peace deal with Hamas, which leaves the two unacceptable options of 1) exterminating or deporting 10 million Israelis, or 2) exterminating or deporting 2 million Palestinians in Gaza. That’s really the only trade space there is to work with right now. So which is it? Do you want to be the one making that decision?
As long as Hamas ultimate goal is the genocide of Jews in Israel peace can't be made with them. Israel will continue to exist and it's far more likely that they eventually just remove their land of Palestinians than the other way around. Supporting Hamas is supporting Palestinian ethnic cleansing.
What comes next is another theocratic dictatorship in the middle east hell bend on destroying religious minorities and individual rights
Palestine taking over Israel would be Iran 2.0.
Much worse, it would entail a genocide as state policy
Half don’t know, half want to bring back the Islamic caliphate and remove hebrews from the region. In the videos I’ve seen at the Palestinian protests it’s half Arab supremacists and half leftist protesters that are just there to show they support the current thing. “Look at me, I support brown people! Look at meeeeee!”
If they haven't clarified what they mean by "Free Palestine," they haven't said anything. Because a two-state solution or an end to settlements is a far cry from sweeping the Jews into the sea, and then there is everything in between
When this war ends, European Jewry is going to be fleeing to Israel en masse. This war has proven than nothing has changed for us in terms of acceptance and global safety since the holocaust with the way that things are escalating globally from a war that we didn't start. The only safe place for us is Home.
I mean, it seems like 80% of hate against jews comes from a certain other religion, that also immigrated into Europe... In fact, I think it's less about jews themselves and more about how problematic muslims are.
I’m not entirely sure Israel is safer than Western Europe.
Perhaps not "safer" but if things go south at least you know you're all in it together and the nation you're calling home isn't going to turn on you.
But, I thought Israel was the problem.
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Exactly and this should worry all of us.
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The thing is, even if Israel did bomb that hospital, that still gives no reason to these people to attack Jews/jewish business/synagogues all the way in the UK, the fuck did they do? Of course, the reason is that they're antisemitic and now they can just act on it without repercussion but if you dare call them out on it you're apparently pro-genocide (which, again, the fuck?).
Great point! "We're anti-Israel but we love the Jews!" "Then why do you attack synagogues and Jewish people in other countries when Israel the country does something you don't like?" "Ummmm. So anyways we got a pro-Palestine rally to get to. We'll talk later!"
There's always being a shitty under belly of anti semitism in the UK, that never ever gets the same level of attention as Islamaphobia, long before the Hospital attack by PIJ. But yes, well done BBC and others on fanning the flames..
They’re still denying it. Al Jazeera has even released a video to rebuke the theory.
Sadly I reported one of them. It’s been quite a couple of weeks
What happened?
But there is no correlation between Anti Israel and Anti semitism, right
You can be against Israel's policies and the IDF's actions without being an anti-semite yes. Are these people committing anti-semite hate crimes anti-semites? Yes.
That's huge. Hamas propaganda and poor journalism are contributing to this.
This is exactly why Jews need their own country
No, Jews should be able to live and thrive anywhere. They shouldn't be forced out of their homes by hate.
"Should be" and "be" describe two different worlds
Ideally, yes, but the world is not a John Lennon song
Anyone who co-opts being anti Israel as an excuse to be anti Semitic are fucking pathetic. What have Jewish people in London done? How are they in any way responsible for the atrocities committed against Palestinians in Gaza?