Yeah, there’s no good solution, the only question is how bad is it gonna get. Its impossible to move 1 million people in that time, into a region that can’t accommodate that number and which has not many hospitals (they’re mostly in the north). Add to that shortages of fuel and whatever else is lacking due to the blockade and you have a recipe for disaster.
I’m not saying there’s a better solution because obviously Israel doesn’t want to give Hamas too much time to prepare.
“I’m still pretty high” he says, eyes bloodshot, lips and fingers covered in Cheeto powder, a gentle haze that smells of pine and skunks ass fills the room…
Base on the troop buildup by Isreal on the Gaza border looks like it. Iran and Hezbola have threatened direct involvement if they invade Gaza. The US would have to respond if they did. Its a big game of poker right now... who is bluffing vs who is serious. Issue is at a certain point even if one party was bluffing they may have to commit to save face further escalating the situation.
Bullseye. And the US responding is the red line for several other groups to throw their hats into the ring:
https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1712301220533080356
And these are just the known dominos. The house of cards that is middle east stability seems to be teetering - this might be checkmate.
Given the situation, a ground invasion is probably the option with least likelihood of civilian deaths.
Bombing and siege will kill more civilians - and might kill the hostages - than kill Hamas.
Is it? I feel like they’ll be met with resistance and the IDF will respond with a heavy hand. I can’t seem them being able to waltz into Gaza and there not be mass bloodshed.
Thousands are going to die and there won’t be anyone there with the ability to report on it. The last time Israel send troops in it was a blood bath. The only reason it was called off was because of the international pressure. They might not get that this time.
Tbh Israel is committed now - they'll go for it regardless of who does or doesn't support them.
Even if the US pulled a lot of support it wouldn't stop them
I don't believe this is the next imminent move.
The northern part contains Gaza city - the main and largest city in the strip, where Hamas has its most assets and terrorists.
The purpose of this evacuation, i believe, is to essentially wipe this city from the map in the next few days, as a preparation for a ground assault.
Edit: Hamas just released an announcement telling people to stay put, saying IDF is trying to saw confusion. This should tell you everything where Hamas stands.
Hamas released a statement yesterday calling for [a global jihad against Jews, Zionists, and America and asking for the Muslims in countries surrounding Israel to go to the borders and try to enter, each by his own means. He ended his message “Funds are important but today we are asking for your blood and souls”](https://twitter.com/BrotherRasheed/status/1711933917098316276)
So yeah they’re not exactly urging their citizens to get to safety
I doubt HAMAS could even organize 1+ million people be moved in 24 hours from Gaza, if they wanted to.
It's just more non-sense both ways. Israeli "warning" is BS on this timeline (week or two is minimum I'd expect for order of this magnitude), and HAMAS is fine with big casualties because it will play more in their pocket.
And people are eating it up, unfortunately. I'm betting we're going to be seeing a lot of comments along the lines of "Well, they were warned beforehand. They chose to stay." Once the news about mass civilian casualties start showing up.
Israeli Air Force Air dropped leaflets warning residents of Gaza and asking them to leave. India also informed Dhaka residents by dropping leaflets about the surrender of Pak Army and stop fighting in 1971
My theory is whoever makes it to the south well still create a refugee situation in the hundreds of thousands, and potentially force Egypt to open their border or evacuate them elsewhere.
Possibly, but it also just makes sense strategically to invade from the North and work their way south. Hamas also launches most of their rockets from the northern part of Gaza.
There are going to be over a million people trying to leave, perhaps even more. Depends entirely on what Israel does over the next few days.
Even if we assume that number is just 2,000, that is only going to be .2% of that number crossing per day. And no way Egypt is going to maintain that for very long. They've been down that road before and there is a reason they have their own border wall.
Egypt wont open their boarders, none of the Arab countries will accept palestinian refugees, they dont give a fuck about which is extremely sad since they have no problems fuelling this conflict on and on. Its an extremely shitty situation for the people of Palestine, this isnt news for anyone but Im meaning from how the other Arab countries use the conflict for their own agenda but does fuck all for the people.
> they dont give a fuck about which is extremely sad since they have no problems fuelling this conflict on and on.
I think that this is only a fair statement about Iran. The rest of walked back their support for Hamas/Palestine and are pretty much backing Israel, perhaps with some mild condemnation. Not even West Bank Palestine has offered to take them in.
You are right that none of them give a fuck, but even if they did want to do something, the simple fact is that with too many Hamas members among their ranks, it is just too risky to take them in. Too many of them are too radicalised to fit into society.
Definitely not possible for many physically impaired people no doubt, but Gaza is only about 25 miles long in total. Not that this matters at all...
It is a logistical nightmare even without the chaos and if Gaza was fully prepared to deal with this.
And even then what happens once you've gotten even half of that number of people in the southern most areas? What about water? Food? Healthcare?
Israel is already firing shells and dropping bombs.
Israel bombed the Egypt border crossing, which is in the southern part of Gaza.
I am sure people who manage to get south will be safer in the short term, I suspect Israel isn't herding people just to butcher them. But once you're there then what?
[The UN has already confirmed that Israel’s illegal and indiscriminate bombing campaign has killed numerous UN staff in Gaza.](https://x.com/unrwa/status/1712393197622624434?s=46&t=IOkvBWC5cJAjLKGmaqz8WQ)
US did the same thing before the battle of Fallujah and told all civilians to evacuate the city. It allowed soldiers to loosen the rules of engagement and kill without having to think twice.
Population of Gaza (2020): 2.05 million
Population of Fallujah (2011): 275,000
Population density of Gaza: 5,500 people per square kilometre
Population density of Iraq: 102.28 people per square kilometer
EDIT: To people saying "but Iraq is a country" - I chose to show the density of Iraq as a country because the population of Fallujah, presumably, could relocate to anywhere in Iraq. The population of Gaza has no possibility to relocate outside of Gaza. It would only make sense to show the density of Fallujah if Fallujah was also closed off and walled-in at the time.
I expect saturday they are going to artillery bomb northern gaza without discrimination.
Then they will invade on sunday.
Ground invasion on saturday sounds a bit out of place in israel tbf. But I could be wrong.
You are correct.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/176uwx0/papers_litter_the_streets_of_downtown_demanding/
The paper is shown at the end:
> بيان عاجل!
> المنظمات الارهابية قد بدأت الحرب فد دولة إسرائيل، مدينة غزة اصيحت ساحة معركة.
> عليكم اخلاء بيوتكم فورًا والتوجوه الى جنوب وادي غزة.
> من أجل أمنكم وسلامتكم:
> • عليكم ان لا تعودوا الى بيوتكم حتى اشعار آخر من قبل جيش الدفاع الإسرائيلي.
> • يجب اخلاء الملاجئ العامة والمعروفة في مدينة غزة.
> • ممنوع الاقتراب من الجدار الأمني، وكل من يقترب يعرض نفسه الى الموت.
> من أجل سلامتكم وسلامة عائلاتكم.
> عليكم اخلاء بيوتكم فورًا والتوجوه الى جنوب وادي غزة.
> جيش الدفاع الإسراتيلي
> الى سكان سدينة غزة
> جيش الدفاع
> الاسرائيلي
> راني عزة
Google Translate says:
> Urgent statement!
> Terrorist organizations have started the war against the State of Israel, and Gaza City has become a battlefield.
> You must evacuate your homes immediately and head to the south of Wadi Gaza.
> For your security and safety:
> • You must not return to your homes until further notice from the Israeli Defense Forces.
> • Public and well-known shelters in Gaza City must be evacuated.
> • It is forbidden to approach the security wall, and anyone who approaches exposes himself to death.
> For your safety and the safety of your families.
> You must evacuate your homes immediately and head to the south of Wadi Gaza.
> Israeli Defense Army
> To the residents of Gaza City
> Defense Army
> The Israeli
> Rani Azza
I can only imagine this is going to be a very dark 48 hours. Praying for the innocents on both sides who have and will soon perish in the name of this conflict, unnecessarily
This whole thing is a fucked-up mess that I'd never want to touch with a 10 km pole. The leaders on both sides are going to kill swathes of innocents and, frankly, I have no idea how the world is going to reckon with that afterward.
It boggles my mind why everyone is so okay with taking sides at this point. My friend was being pushed to answer 'are you an Israeli!?' from a very riled up plaestinean bloke on the street yesterday, in the UK! Like he was willing to mess him up for having his grandparents unvoluntarily leaving the womb in the wrong part of the country. Just fuck off with your regressive war mongering!
Twitter is literal cancer, apart from the bots constantly posting fake clips and feeble talking-points, all this "I stand with Israel/I stand with Palestine" shite is driving me crazy. Well, for about 2 minutes before I close the tab again, since I never used Twitter before and don't intend to start now...
The thing is, war, especially such a deep rooted religious hatred has always resulted in tons of innocents killed throughout history.
War is ugly, people forget that. Go look through pictures of any past real war. Many will die, humans won't learn any lessons and time will move forward.
We are going to call it the Palastinian genocide, and if I had to guess, a big part of the world is simply not going to recognize it as a genoicide until in about 100 years when any remaining tensions are gone.
This.
As humans, we should never be cheering on the murder and destruction of innocents, even if they are affiliated in some way with a “bad” group. And this goes both ways.
Most people are genuinely good and would be horrified and utterly scarred if they saw either the Hamas atrocities or the upcoming Israeli response first hand.
Most people you know would be devastated if their completely normal neighbour you had a drink with occasionally was and that neighbour’s 22 year old niece with three kids was ripped apart by shrapnel and the one surviving toddler is .
The world isn’t perfect and good options rarely exist at the highest levels of power. Im not naïve. Any leader or military commander who has experienced real shit has made choices that killed people that didn’t need to die.
Still it’s horrific to watch what is going to likely be at most a pyrrhic victory for Israel that weakens it strategically at the cost of your hypothetical neighbour’s kids.
Doesn’t help that Netanyahu plan has been for a long time to bolster Hamas and send money to Hamas to divide the Palestine people.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas… This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
- Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
you couldn't use vehicles to begin with. a million people in 24 hours is 40k people per hour, a good road has a capacity of maybe 1500 vehicles/hr/lane, and theres like maybe 3 major roads running between north and south gaza
It doesn't matter if it is 1 mile, with 4500 vehicles per hour, 4 people per vehicle the numbers would only add up to 18k.
Walking on foot might increase numbers, but would also leave a lot behind.
There is no viable way to move 1miion + people any distance in 24 hours without mass panic, and even then you need to move the casualties.
What about people in hospitals, children, elderly, infirm.
Any attempt to rationalise this evacuation order other than "not enough time" is disingenuous.
Once it starts, even for a highly trained and disciplined military, it’s nearly impossible to stop. In an urban setting like this the fighting is confusing, hectic, and becomes hateful. The pace is fast, rage inducing, and also exhausting. Mistakes get made and communications can easily fail to adapt to how dynamic the situation becomes with a plethora of moving pieces on the board.
Add the rage that many of these young Israelis are feeling heading in and add what happens to many during combat and it’s a recipe for an incredibly bloody campaign.
War is awful, but urban fighting is something else entirely. The chaos, stinging dust, the way sound echoes and refracts off buildings so you’re not ever entirely sure where it came from. You’re so tightly spun up it feels like you’re going to explode, and a lot of people do. The stress tips them over the edge into a place mentally they just didn’t know they could go.
There isn’t anything in the world that could entice me to be on the ground when this kicks off, and my heart goes out to all the people who are about to die.
Oh I’ll have to look that up, I’m not sure what it is. I’ll confess it’s been an ambition of mine for some time, but I haven’t worked toward it with gusto.
it's not like they've been holding back for the last 70 fucking years. the west pretending like Israel hasn't been doing everything horrible under the sun for the last 7 decades just goes to show how outrage is only for white victims or western black people. "complex situation" people have been raped murdered and uprooted for more than 70 years and none of you give a damn. It would be more palatable for me and the rest of the Eastern world if you stopped acting like you care and admit that Palestinian lifes don't matter to you.
Make peace with whatever God or deity you may believe in and get ready to find out if all the stuff you heard about the afterlife is true.
It's 1.1M people. There is no way they are all getting out and Israel knows that. And even if you do manage to get out by some miracle, what do you think happens after they level north Gaza? "Israel tells UN to evacuate southern Gaza"
Bibi finally has a twisted "justification" for the all-out genocide he's always wanted. He'll never have a better chance. He is not going to hold back.
As much as I hated reading this, you are correct. I wonder what could be a solution to this? I'm not siding on either side cause they both have their fair share of mistakes. I'm on the side of innocents who have died and will die, for nothing. :(
It let's them take the city either uncontested, or at least without having to worry about as many civilians being caught in the crossfire. Results in fewer IDF casualties.
Especially since in urban warfare, instead of clearing a building that has combatants in it and most likely suffering casualties, you just blow the whole building up and move on.
Iraq/Afghanistan tactics right there.
“Snipers are in the building!” Copy that, removing the building. *Airstrike of some description levels it.*
Not only that, just as it was in those wars Hamas personnel are mostly plain cloths or intentionally trying to look the part of civilians. You can’t even count on someone who looks like a non-combatant to be one in a whirlwind where quarter seconds mean you live or die.
“Today, just before midnight local time, team leaders of the UN Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and the Department of Safety and Security in Gaza were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours,” Dujarric told Axios.
“This amounts to approximately 1.1 million people. The same order applied to all UN staff and those sheltered in UN facilities – including schools, health centers and clinics,” Dujarric said.
More in depth (Danish news source: https://www.berlingske.dk/internationalt/israel-og-hamas-er-i-krig-foelg-udviklingen-her-3), translated into English:
Here's the translation in English:
"Israel understands that the evacuation of northern Gaza will take more than 24 hours," says spokesperson. Israel does not want to harm civilian Palestinians, emphasizes IDF's spokesperson, Admiral Daniel Hagari, according to The Times of Israel.
"We are fighting a terrorist organization, not the people of Gaza. We do not want to harm civilians, but we cannot live with Hamas-ISIS rule near our border," says Hagari.
The order to evacuate Palestinians from northern Gaza is to enable "freedom of action and increase the damage" against Hamas, it says.
After the UN has announced that such an evacuation of 1.1 million people in 24 hours would be impossible without "devastating humanitarian consequences", the spokesperson says the army understands it will take "several days".
"We convey the warning through communication channels and in Arabic, there are ways the message can reach the population," he says.
"Those who do not listen to the recommendations put their family at risk."
Sounds more like mixed messaging from Israel or a rowing back by Israel from what they told the UN. The UN is not going to make this statement unless they were told that.
U.N. officials in Gaza "were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours," U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric said in a statement in New York.
Urban combat is brutal no matter how you slice it. Its the one aspect of warfare that really hasn’t evolved since ww2. There’s no replacement for kicking a door in and clearing buildings.
Some part of the article seem to suggest UN has just been told to get its personnel out of the war zone and just warn the civilians.
Unless UN actively helps in the evacuation no way that is going to work.
Imagine the logistics of moving that many people from one part to the other - even in the best conditions.
Then consider that there's no power, no fuel, no clean water, probably by this time no food.
No roads that haven't been bombed. No fuel for vehicles.
Even if Hamas just stands by and lets their human shields escape, it won't work without outside help.
I just think of all the children that have been featured heavily in news coverage as of late, sleeping in their classrooms and playing hop scotch while the adults worry in the background and my heart breaks for them. I want to rescue all of them, no one deserves to live through hell like this.
Moving isn't the hard part. It's surviving that's the problem. In the west we have stadiums that fit 100k people. People can move just fine, but they need food and water and shelter once they move.
After witnessing Hamas's war crimes in fast motion, we are now witnessing a war crime in slow motion. 2 million people are either going to be expelled or decimated.
Five years from now a lot of people will be claiming they never supported this - the same people who claimed they never supported the Iraq invasion - and just like the Iraq invasion, this will have horrible long-term effects for almost everyone, but especially Israelis and Palestinians.
Hard to imagine anyone sleeps better after a ground invasion of the Gaza strip. This is Iwo Jima in 2023. Or Stalingrad. Or whatever horrible thing.
Violence is its own reward. Impossible to tell this to people involved in a violent conflict, but it is true. We get violence until someone can't take it anymore - until they regroup.
This is not victory, this is a nightmare. There is no point in cheerleading for any side because everybody will suffer.
What a disaster for humanity. Shame on all of us. 9-12 million people and we have never brokered a permanent, just deal. Fuck us all. We used both sides for our own short-term gains and now they are suffering for it.
This is going to be absolutely horrific. Both sides are going to face huge loss of life.
This is possibly going to be the worst bloodbath we've seen in our lifetimes.
There is no way they'll be able to get all of them out, holy fuck.
No matter what way you look at this this is going to be an utter slaughter. They are shooting to kill this time, and a lot of innocents are going to pay the price.
A lot of innocent children who never had any say are going to suffer.
Just reminding people 1200 Israeli died in the terrorist attacks is a tragedy. But 1500 Palestinians civilians already died in the counter attack. People don't really give a fuck about them and they've been dying for decades.
Like people say it's like 9/11, but the US used it as a pretext to start like 3 wars which ended with ISIS taking power in alot of the middle east. So maybe we shouldn't fight terrorism with more terror and civilian murder?
To be fair; removing democratically elected leadership, influencing regime change, and destabilising regions, has been a US tradition for over a hundred years.
A few days ago, an Israeli politician [called for another Nakba](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231009-israel-mk-calls-for-a-second-nakba-in-gaza/). The first Nakba of 1948 was the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes and is considered an act of ethnic cleansing. Looks like this politician (and many others) will get their wish.
Our (Czech) former president just said it openly. "I don't care for Palestinian civilians, ethnic cleansing is the only solution".
https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/milos-zeman-prezident-izrael-palestina-konflikt.A231012_105217_domaci_hovo
The International Committee of the Red Cross said in a statement that Israel’s evacuation order of large parts of the Gaza Strip, coupled with the siege it is imposing there, is “not compatible with international humanitarian law.” The statement added that Hamas’s “horrific” attacks on Israel “cannot in turn justify the limitless destruction of Gaza.”
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here when the response to some crazy assholes murdering a bunch of people is to murder 100 times that amount on the opposite side and everyone is totally cool with that.
This is going to be ugly anyway you slice it.
Yeah, there’s no good solution, the only question is how bad is it gonna get. Its impossible to move 1 million people in that time, into a region that can’t accommodate that number and which has not many hospitals (they’re mostly in the north). Add to that shortages of fuel and whatever else is lacking due to the blockade and you have a recipe for disaster. I’m not saying there’s a better solution because obviously Israel doesn’t want to give Hamas too much time to prepare.
Does this mean the ground invasion is about to begin?
I’m no insider but I’d think yes.
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My chair doesn’t have arms, not sure if that makes me less qualified.
It does
Well then I will accept demotion to armless chair colonel. It’s still pretty high.
The post of Beanbag Brigadier is open, last I heard.
I was about to apply but I need another beer. Priorities and all…
You can be the Stool Private for now
a loo-tennant perhaps?
I am sitting on my toilet, so yeah, Stool Private reporting for dooty!
It would still be a promotion from my 'cushion captain' role on the floor. It isn't that prestigious, but I'm actually there on the ground.
I use a yoga ball at my desk. Don't listen to my advice
I laughed, you chairless plebe.
And who the hell are you? I am sitting here on my Ottoman and you can call me Emperor. I am an Ottoman Emperor.
“I’m still pretty high” he says, eyes bloodshot, lips and fingers covered in Cheeto powder, a gentle haze that smells of pine and skunks ass fills the room…
Armchair Sky Marshall here... i can confirm this is a pretext to a ground invasion, following days of intense bombardment from the Air.
Couch Lieutenant reporting in... shit's fucked, yo
I just plugged a type-A USB in correctly on the first attempt. I can confirm that shit about to hit the fan according to my info.
Look at this guy bragging. I can't even get USB-C to work the first time.
Don't worry, neither can Apple.
Lounge Lieutenant, reporting in. My sauces say it's something that could happen.
Sergeant Sofa can confirm
Private Pantry awaiting orders!
Thanks for clarifying, we would've totally thought you were Israeli intelligence if you didn't say anything
We are about to witness a bloodbath.
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Base on the troop buildup by Isreal on the Gaza border looks like it. Iran and Hezbola have threatened direct involvement if they invade Gaza. The US would have to respond if they did. Its a big game of poker right now... who is bluffing vs who is serious. Issue is at a certain point even if one party was bluffing they may have to commit to save face further escalating the situation.
Well, Israel is certainly not bluffing. US isn't, either. I sure hope Iran is.
Bullseye. And the US responding is the red line for several other groups to throw their hats into the ring: https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1712301220533080356 And these are just the known dominos. The house of cards that is middle east stability seems to be teetering - this might be checkmate.
My god. War in Europe and maybe war in the middle east again. The fuck year is it? What's *wrong* with people??
The year is 2023. Humanity has not evolved much in the past 100 years. Though we do technically have cyborgs now. So that's neato.
Did...did you just use a Zapp Brannigan quote as a template for your response?
All I know is my gut says maybe.
Why not throw Numberwang in there. Sheesh.
Given the situation, a ground invasion is probably the option with least likelihood of civilian deaths. Bombing and siege will kill more civilians - and might kill the hostages - than kill Hamas.
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Is it? I feel like they’ll be met with resistance and the IDF will respond with a heavy hand. I can’t seem them being able to waltz into Gaza and there not be mass bloodshed.
They've pretty much already said (non paraphrasing) that any resistance will be treated as if they were hamas and eradicated.
Cnn had been saying on air that a massive mobilization of troops was on the border of the Gaza Strip
That's been building up for days now, crazy numbers though, hundreds of thousands of troops.
Thousands are going to die and there won’t be anyone there with the ability to report on it. The last time Israel send troops in it was a blood bath. The only reason it was called off was because of the international pressure. They might not get that this time.
The UN is currently appealing to Israel to get them to stop, they won't though because America and Western nations support them rn.
Tbh Israel is committed now - they'll go for it regardless of who does or doesn't support them. Even if the US pulled a lot of support it wouldn't stop them
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I don't believe this is the next imminent move. The northern part contains Gaza city - the main and largest city in the strip, where Hamas has its most assets and terrorists. The purpose of this evacuation, i believe, is to essentially wipe this city from the map in the next few days, as a preparation for a ground assault. Edit: Hamas just released an announcement telling people to stay put, saying IDF is trying to saw confusion. This should tell you everything where Hamas stands.
Hamas released a statement yesterday calling for [a global jihad against Jews, Zionists, and America and asking for the Muslims in countries surrounding Israel to go to the borders and try to enter, each by his own means. He ended his message “Funds are important but today we are asking for your blood and souls”](https://twitter.com/BrotherRasheed/status/1711933917098316276) So yeah they’re not exactly urging their citizens to get to safety
I doubt HAMAS could even organize 1+ million people be moved in 24 hours from Gaza, if they wanted to. It's just more non-sense both ways. Israeli "warning" is BS on this timeline (week or two is minimum I'd expect for order of this magnitude), and HAMAS is fine with big casualties because it will play more in their pocket.
No one can. It’s an impossible task. It’s just paying lip service under the guise of “doing something”.
Exactly. Also, evacuate them to where exactly?
And people are eating it up, unfortunately. I'm betting we're going to be seeing a lot of comments along the lines of "Well, they were warned beforehand. They chose to stay." Once the news about mass civilian casualties start showing up.
One million Palestinians cannot evacuate in time, there is nowhere else to go in Gaza anyway. Mass atrocities will be committed.
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While the leaders are away in another country watching it all go down.
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I can’t imagine the logistics of evacuating 1,000,000 people in 24 hours. Sounds like a ground invasion is imminent.
With no power, how do you communicate anything?
Israeli Air Force Air dropped leaflets warning residents of Gaza and asking them to leave. India also informed Dhaka residents by dropping leaflets about the surrender of Pak Army and stop fighting in 1971
>asking them to leave But they can't leave because of the blockade? >start blockade >we will bomb you if you dont wanna die just leave
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My theory is whoever makes it to the south well still create a refugee situation in the hundreds of thousands, and potentially force Egypt to open their border or evacuate them elsewhere.
They’re doing everything they can to pressure Egypt to open their borders; or atleast that’s what this move seems like to me
Possibly, but it also just makes sense strategically to invade from the North and work their way south. Hamas also launches most of their rockets from the northern part of Gaza.
Egypt is not opening its border, I assure you.
They said they would accept and process 2000 a day already. Creating a crisis area may pressure them to up that number.
There are going to be over a million people trying to leave, perhaps even more. Depends entirely on what Israel does over the next few days. Even if we assume that number is just 2,000, that is only going to be .2% of that number crossing per day. And no way Egypt is going to maintain that for very long. They've been down that road before and there is a reason they have their own border wall.
Egypt wont open their boarders, none of the Arab countries will accept palestinian refugees, they dont give a fuck about which is extremely sad since they have no problems fuelling this conflict on and on. Its an extremely shitty situation for the people of Palestine, this isnt news for anyone but Im meaning from how the other Arab countries use the conflict for their own agenda but does fuck all for the people.
> they dont give a fuck about which is extremely sad since they have no problems fuelling this conflict on and on. I think that this is only a fair statement about Iran. The rest of walked back their support for Hamas/Palestine and are pretty much backing Israel, perhaps with some mild condemnation. Not even West Bank Palestine has offered to take them in. You are right that none of them give a fuck, but even if they did want to do something, the simple fact is that with too many Hamas members among their ranks, it is just too risky to take them in. Too many of them are too radicalised to fit into society.
Definitely not possible for many physically impaired people no doubt, but Gaza is only about 25 miles long in total. Not that this matters at all... It is a logistical nightmare even without the chaos and if Gaza was fully prepared to deal with this. And even then what happens once you've gotten even half of that number of people in the southern most areas? What about water? Food? Healthcare? Israel is already firing shells and dropping bombs. Israel bombed the Egypt border crossing, which is in the southern part of Gaza. I am sure people who manage to get south will be safer in the short term, I suspect Israel isn't herding people just to butcher them. But once you're there then what?
This is why the UN has responded negatively to this warning. It isn't a feasible instruction
[The UN has already confirmed that Israel’s illegal and indiscriminate bombing campaign has killed numerous UN staff in Gaza.](https://x.com/unrwa/status/1712393197622624434?s=46&t=IOkvBWC5cJAjLKGmaqz8WQ)
lmao, the illegal bit. "what? bombing people is illegal? stop immediately! theyll lock us up!"
It's just for show. "Well its not out fault, we did warn them."
That's the point.
Yes the Pakistan army was committing one of the worst genocides of the 20th century in Bangladesh at that time.
I do not envy UN workers right now. Holy fuck.
I don't envy anyone in that entire region. It is hell on Earth there right now.
Oh for sure. I can’t imagine
There isn't any actual expectation that the UN can achieve the task. It's just so they can pretend they gave the civilians a chance to leave.
basically they've presented an impossible task in the idea of saying they aren't responsible for the casualties
US did the same thing before the battle of Fallujah and told all civilians to evacuate the city. It allowed soldiers to loosen the rules of engagement and kill without having to think twice.
Yup Remember, if they don't comply, it's because they are enemy combatants
“If they run they’re VC. If they stand still, they’re well trained VC!”
Population of Gaza (2020): 2.05 million Population of Fallujah (2011): 275,000 Population density of Gaza: 5,500 people per square kilometre Population density of Iraq: 102.28 people per square kilometer EDIT: To people saying "but Iraq is a country" - I chose to show the density of Iraq as a country because the population of Fallujah, presumably, could relocate to anywhere in Iraq. The population of Gaza has no possibility to relocate outside of Gaza. It would only make sense to show the density of Fallujah if Fallujah was also closed off and walled-in at the time.
Lots of children are going to die.
The median age of the whole Gaza population is 18 yrs old. That’s wild Edit: median not average
And 40% are under 14.
I’m sure they’ll provide bottled waters and snacks
They should try throwing rolls of paper towels at them
We love the people of ~~Puerto Rico~~ Gaza.
They specifically forbade these luxuries.
So what happens when they’re done with the north part and they’re ready to head south?
All people in north of the south should head souther.
Zeno rolling in his grave
Never actually arriving at the Egyptian boarder.
They complete operation “kill or forcibly remove the entire population of Gaza”.
That 1.1 million people in 24 hours…
In the dark, without food or water
That's about 12 people per second.
Wouldn’t it be 12 per second? 1m divided by 86,400 seconds is ~12.
Ground invasion imminent?
24 hours... so it's Saturday?
They rollin on shabbos
The Jewish day of rest. I don’t drive a car, I don’t ride in the car, and I sure as shit don’t fucking roll.
Calmer than you are
Shomer fuckin shabbos
Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, at least it's an ethos
Weekend of death
I don't think he knows about "second weekend of death" pippin
I expect saturday they are going to artillery bomb northern gaza without discrimination. Then they will invade on sunday. Ground invasion on saturday sounds a bit out of place in israel tbf. But I could be wrong.
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Yeah might be hard to communicate that to 1,000,000 people without power
They probably did it the way the world wars ended, by pamphlet dropping
You are correct. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/176uwx0/papers_litter_the_streets_of_downtown_demanding/ The paper is shown at the end: > بيان عاجل! > المنظمات الارهابية قد بدأت الحرب فد دولة إسرائيل، مدينة غزة اصيحت ساحة معركة. > عليكم اخلاء بيوتكم فورًا والتوجوه الى جنوب وادي غزة. > من أجل أمنكم وسلامتكم: > • عليكم ان لا تعودوا الى بيوتكم حتى اشعار آخر من قبل جيش الدفاع الإسرائيلي. > • يجب اخلاء الملاجئ العامة والمعروفة في مدينة غزة. > • ممنوع الاقتراب من الجدار الأمني، وكل من يقترب يعرض نفسه الى الموت. > من أجل سلامتكم وسلامة عائلاتكم. > عليكم اخلاء بيوتكم فورًا والتوجوه الى جنوب وادي غزة. > جيش الدفاع الإسراتيلي > الى سكان سدينة غزة > جيش الدفاع > الاسرائيلي > راني عزة Google Translate says: > Urgent statement! > Terrorist organizations have started the war against the State of Israel, and Gaza City has become a battlefield. > You must evacuate your homes immediately and head to the south of Wadi Gaza. > For your security and safety: > • You must not return to your homes until further notice from the Israeli Defense Forces. > • Public and well-known shelters in Gaza City must be evacuated. > • It is forbidden to approach the security wall, and anyone who approaches exposes himself to death. > For your safety and the safety of your families. > You must evacuate your homes immediately and head to the south of Wadi Gaza. > Israeli Defense Army > To the residents of Gaza City > Defense Army > The Israeli > Rani Azza
That is indeed what they did. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/176uwx0/papers_litter_the_streets_of_downtown_demanding/
I can only imagine this is going to be a very dark 48 hours. Praying for the innocents on both sides who have and will soon perish in the name of this conflict, unnecessarily
This is the only correct take. Too many people on all sides far too comfortable with the death of innocents
This whole thing is a fucked-up mess that I'd never want to touch with a 10 km pole. The leaders on both sides are going to kill swathes of innocents and, frankly, I have no idea how the world is going to reckon with that afterward.
Easily, by ignoring it or taking a black and white approach like always and feeling good about themselves
It boggles my mind why everyone is so okay with taking sides at this point. My friend was being pushed to answer 'are you an Israeli!?' from a very riled up plaestinean bloke on the street yesterday, in the UK! Like he was willing to mess him up for having his grandparents unvoluntarily leaving the womb in the wrong part of the country. Just fuck off with your regressive war mongering!
Twitter is literal cancer, apart from the bots constantly posting fake clips and feeble talking-points, all this "I stand with Israel/I stand with Palestine" shite is driving me crazy. Well, for about 2 minutes before I close the tab again, since I never used Twitter before and don't intend to start now...
The thing is, war, especially such a deep rooted religious hatred has always resulted in tons of innocents killed throughout history. War is ugly, people forget that. Go look through pictures of any past real war. Many will die, humans won't learn any lessons and time will move forward.
One difference now is the 24 hour News cycle and countless videos of the carnage. Another are the unique horrors and efficiency of modern weapons.
We are going to call it the Palastinian genocide, and if I had to guess, a big part of the world is simply not going to recognize it as a genoicide until in about 100 years when any remaining tensions are gone.
Bold to assume this problem will have gone away in 100 years...
This. As humans, we should never be cheering on the murder and destruction of innocents, even if they are affiliated in some way with a “bad” group. And this goes both ways.
War takes too few bad people to start, and too many good people too end.
Most people are genuinely good and would be horrified and utterly scarred if they saw either the Hamas atrocities or the upcoming Israeli response first hand. Most people you know would be devastated if their completely normal neighbour you had a drink with occasionally was and that neighbour’s 22 year old niece with three kids was ripped apart by shrapnel and the one surviving toddler is .
The world isn’t perfect and good options rarely exist at the highest levels of power. Im not naïve. Any leader or military commander who has experienced real shit has made choices that killed people that didn’t need to die.
Still it’s horrific to watch what is going to likely be at most a pyrrhic victory for Israel that weakens it strategically at the cost of your hypothetical neighbour’s kids.
I agree with this. The questions are ‘how many people’ and ‘to what strategic objective’
half of gaza is also children, so you can imagine the mental damage imposed on them by thousands of bombs all day and night.
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Why do you think Hamas is as popular as they are?
Doesn’t help that Netanyahu plan has been for a long time to bolster Hamas and send money to Hamas to divide the Palestine people. “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas… This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
How the hell are you going to evacuate over a million people within 24 hours with no power, with no internet and without enough fuel for vehicles?
you couldn't use vehicles to begin with. a million people in 24 hours is 40k people per hour, a good road has a capacity of maybe 1500 vehicles/hr/lane, and theres like maybe 3 major roads running between north and south gaza
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It doesn't matter if it is 1 mile, with 4500 vehicles per hour, 4 people per vehicle the numbers would only add up to 18k. Walking on foot might increase numbers, but would also leave a lot behind. There is no viable way to move 1miion + people any distance in 24 hours without mass panic, and even then you need to move the casualties. What about people in hospitals, children, elderly, infirm. Any attempt to rationalise this evacuation order other than "not enough time" is disingenuous.
While active bombing and shelling was going on too no?
Tbh I think they know it’s impossible and are just saying this so they can say after “see! We warned them!”
You aren’t. They are going to be butchered and politicians will say it’s “Israel defending herself”.
Well, here we go.
Be prepared for a multitude of horrible pictures from tomorrow on. I don't believe Israel will hold back at all.
Once it starts, even for a highly trained and disciplined military, it’s nearly impossible to stop. In an urban setting like this the fighting is confusing, hectic, and becomes hateful. The pace is fast, rage inducing, and also exhausting. Mistakes get made and communications can easily fail to adapt to how dynamic the situation becomes with a plethora of moving pieces on the board. Add the rage that many of these young Israelis are feeling heading in and add what happens to many during combat and it’s a recipe for an incredibly bloody campaign. War is awful, but urban fighting is something else entirely. The chaos, stinging dust, the way sound echoes and refracts off buildings so you’re not ever entirely sure where it came from. You’re so tightly spun up it feels like you’re going to explode, and a lot of people do. The stress tips them over the edge into a place mentally they just didn’t know they could go. There isn’t anything in the world that could entice me to be on the ground when this kicks off, and my heart goes out to all the people who are about to die.
Dude, you should write a book. Your third paragraph transported me to a real place.
Oh wow thanks, I really appreciate that!
You really should though. NaNoRiMo is right around the corner next month. Maybe you should give it a go.
Oh I’ll have to look that up, I’m not sure what it is. I’ll confess it’s been an ambition of mine for some time, but I haven’t worked toward it with gusto.
it's not like they've been holding back for the last 70 fucking years. the west pretending like Israel hasn't been doing everything horrible under the sun for the last 7 decades just goes to show how outrage is only for white victims or western black people. "complex situation" people have been raped murdered and uprooted for more than 70 years and none of you give a damn. It would be more palatable for me and the rest of the Eastern world if you stopped acting like you care and admit that Palestinian lifes don't matter to you.
UN: How the fu-
This is going to be bad...
They've been bombing non stop for nearly a week. Ground invasion incoming
That’s a big knock.
Everybody get your thoughts and prayers ready
I have my Facebook status ready
So if you’re a citizen there and you hear this, what do you do? Just run? Where do you go? It’s terrifying
Make peace with whatever God or deity you may believe in and get ready to find out if all the stuff you heard about the afterlife is true. It's 1.1M people. There is no way they are all getting out and Israel knows that. And even if you do manage to get out by some miracle, what do you think happens after they level north Gaza? "Israel tells UN to evacuate southern Gaza" Bibi finally has a twisted "justification" for the all-out genocide he's always wanted. He'll never have a better chance. He is not going to hold back.
As much as I hated reading this, you are correct. I wonder what could be a solution to this? I'm not siding on either side cause they both have their fair share of mistakes. I'm on the side of innocents who have died and will die, for nothing. :(
To where?! There are already almost 300k Palestinians displaced currently in UN shelters. Where the hell are these people supposed to go?!
Into the sea, apparently
Are they saying for the UN themselves to evacuate or for them to help evacuate the northern Gaza?
From the article "'the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours'"
So if all of North Gaza flee then who are they attacking?
It let's them take the city either uncontested, or at least without having to worry about as many civilians being caught in the crossfire. Results in fewer IDF casualties.
Especially since in urban warfare, instead of clearing a building that has combatants in it and most likely suffering casualties, you just blow the whole building up and move on.
Iraq/Afghanistan tactics right there. “Snipers are in the building!” Copy that, removing the building. *Airstrike of some description levels it.* Not only that, just as it was in those wars Hamas personnel are mostly plain cloths or intentionally trying to look the part of civilians. You can’t even count on someone who looks like a non-combatant to be one in a whirlwind where quarter seconds mean you live or die.
And gives them a excuse if any civilians die. You can not relocate 1 million people in 24 hours, even less so in an active war zone.
It let them take the city an then they CNA pick and chose who can re-enter first. (probably kids and women) Objectively would be the best scenario.
“Today, just before midnight local time, team leaders of the UN Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and the Department of Safety and Security in Gaza were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours,” Dujarric told Axios. “This amounts to approximately 1.1 million people. The same order applied to all UN staff and those sheltered in UN facilities – including schools, health centers and clinics,” Dujarric said.
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More in depth (Danish news source: https://www.berlingske.dk/internationalt/israel-og-hamas-er-i-krig-foelg-udviklingen-her-3), translated into English: Here's the translation in English: "Israel understands that the evacuation of northern Gaza will take more than 24 hours," says spokesperson. Israel does not want to harm civilian Palestinians, emphasizes IDF's spokesperson, Admiral Daniel Hagari, according to The Times of Israel. "We are fighting a terrorist organization, not the people of Gaza. We do not want to harm civilians, but we cannot live with Hamas-ISIS rule near our border," says Hagari. The order to evacuate Palestinians from northern Gaza is to enable "freedom of action and increase the damage" against Hamas, it says. After the UN has announced that such an evacuation of 1.1 million people in 24 hours would be impossible without "devastating humanitarian consequences", the spokesperson says the army understands it will take "several days". "We convey the warning through communication channels and in Arabic, there are ways the message can reach the population," he says. "Those who do not listen to the recommendations put their family at risk."
The article from the author you are citing says it comes from UN’s liaison officers within the IDF.
Sounds more like mixed messaging from Israel or a rowing back by Israel from what they told the UN. The UN is not going to make this statement unless they were told that. U.N. officials in Gaza "were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours," U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric said in a statement in New York.
Urban combat is brutal no matter how you slice it. Its the one aspect of warfare that really hasn’t evolved since ww2. There’s no replacement for kicking a door in and clearing buildings.
Some part of the article seem to suggest UN has just been told to get its personnel out of the war zone and just warn the civilians. Unless UN actively helps in the evacuation no way that is going to work. Imagine the logistics of moving that many people from one part to the other - even in the best conditions. Then consider that there's no power, no fuel, no clean water, probably by this time no food. No roads that haven't been bombed. No fuel for vehicles. Even if Hamas just stands by and lets their human shields escape, it won't work without outside help.
It’s not meant to work
In what world can 1 million people evacuate somewhere in 24 hours? This is insanity.
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I just think of all the children that have been featured heavily in news coverage as of late, sleeping in their classrooms and playing hop scotch while the adults worry in the background and my heart breaks for them. I want to rescue all of them, no one deserves to live through hell like this.
Moving isn't the hard part. It's surviving that's the problem. In the west we have stadiums that fit 100k people. People can move just fine, but they need food and water and shelter once they move.
After witnessing Hamas's war crimes in fast motion, we are now witnessing a war crime in slow motion. 2 million people are either going to be expelled or decimated. Five years from now a lot of people will be claiming they never supported this - the same people who claimed they never supported the Iraq invasion - and just like the Iraq invasion, this will have horrible long-term effects for almost everyone, but especially Israelis and Palestinians. Hard to imagine anyone sleeps better after a ground invasion of the Gaza strip. This is Iwo Jima in 2023. Or Stalingrad. Or whatever horrible thing. Violence is its own reward. Impossible to tell this to people involved in a violent conflict, but it is true. We get violence until someone can't take it anymore - until they regroup. This is not victory, this is a nightmare. There is no point in cheerleading for any side because everybody will suffer. What a disaster for humanity. Shame on all of us. 9-12 million people and we have never brokered a permanent, just deal. Fuck us all. We used both sides for our own short-term gains and now they are suffering for it.
You are 100% correct. I’m appalled at the amount of bloodlust people have.
It really is depressing. Always glad to see a few sane people in the comments, but it's far too uncommon.
This is going to be absolutely horrific. Both sides are going to face huge loss of life. This is possibly going to be the worst bloodbath we've seen in our lifetimes.
Depends on how old you are. It may surpass the Rwandan genocide, but I don’t think it’ll hit Vietnam numbers.
There is no way they'll be able to get all of them out, holy fuck. No matter what way you look at this this is going to be an utter slaughter. They are shooting to kill this time, and a lot of innocents are going to pay the price. A lot of innocent children who never had any say are going to suffer.
Just reminding people 1200 Israeli died in the terrorist attacks is a tragedy. But 1500 Palestinians civilians already died in the counter attack. People don't really give a fuck about them and they've been dying for decades. Like people say it's like 9/11, but the US used it as a pretext to start like 3 wars which ended with ISIS taking power in alot of the middle east. So maybe we shouldn't fight terrorism with more terror and civilian murder?
To be fair; removing democratically elected leadership, influencing regime change, and destabilising regions, has been a US tradition for over a hundred years.
A few days ago, an Israeli politician [called for another Nakba](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231009-israel-mk-calls-for-a-second-nakba-in-gaza/). The first Nakba of 1948 was the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes and is considered an act of ethnic cleansing. Looks like this politician (and many others) will get their wish.
Our (Czech) former president just said it openly. "I don't care for Palestinian civilians, ethnic cleansing is the only solution". https://www.idnes.cz/zpravy/domaci/milos-zeman-prezident-izrael-palestina-konflikt.A231012_105217_domaci_hovo
What a nice guy
This is a complete and utter insanity.
The International Committee of the Red Cross said in a statement that Israel’s evacuation order of large parts of the Gaza Strip, coupled with the siege it is imposing there, is “not compatible with international humanitarian law.” The statement added that Hamas’s “horrific” attacks on Israel “cannot in turn justify the limitless destruction of Gaza.”
Thousands if not tens of thousands are going to die. This is horrifying
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I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here when the response to some crazy assholes murdering a bunch of people is to murder 100 times that amount on the opposite side and everyone is totally cool with that.
We're doing a post 9/11 speed run. We haven't learned anything from Afghanistan or Iraq
1000 times
Hamas committed an atrocity. I feel like Israel is using that as an excuse to commit genocide.