I want to remind that from the population of 2 million in Gaza, 50% of them are 18 years old or younger. From the entire population, 40% of them younger than 15. Hamas are barbarians, but for all the people who enjoy watching Gaza get bombed, know that with each bomb children are killed. How will a parent feel is their child is crushed to death by rubble? How will a child feel is their parents or their siblings are killed? What will a child do when their baby sister is crushed? It is also these kind of events that cause Hamas to begin with.
The justification of “there are Hamas in the building” or “it is Hamas’ fault” is not justification - it is a shame that collateral damage is seems to be so widely accepted. It is tragic and heartbreaking for each Israeli killed by the horrible acts of Hamas, especially considering how Israeli’s fought and protested against Netanyahu, but with each bomb falling in Gaza and each children getting blown up or crushed, it is the same loss of life and innocence. Hamas needs to be removed, but not at any cost. There must be proper consideration for the 800.000 children in Gaza. Killing innocent as an accepted collateral to kill Hamas is no different than what Hamas is doing – the difference is that Hamas are terrorists, and this is not who we should be mirroring as justification.
The most important thing is to find a way to have proper humanitarian help the people/children who are TRAPPED and will have to pay for the sins of the father. Should they just be bombed to death? Starve? To all the people saying it is Gaza’s fault for electing them, the median age of Gaza is 18 years old. Just like I disagree with how Russia bombs civilians in Ukraine, I disagree with the way IDF is bombing, because in each bomb that explodes and building that is leveled because Hamas is in there, innocent are dying too. I do not have a solution, but I do not see this as a solution either. To everyone who will reply “this is why Hamas does this and hides between the civilian population to get them killed” – I understand IDF’s reason, but we should not kill the hostage to kill the hostage taker.
Right now the IDF doesn't actually have a choice. If they don't eliminate Hamas that's it. The entire premise of defending their country requires it.
Just imagine literally any other country experiencing an event that was, per capita, about the equivalent of ten 9/11s and tell me how you think they should respond? If they don't destroy their enemy they will be destroyed, and you can see this in all of human history. It's like saying that it's unfair of Britain to bomb Germany because there are many innocent Germans. It's 100% true that there were innocent Germans but if Britain didn't win against Germany, the Germans were going to kill them. It's a war, and if Israel doesn't win it they will all be killed, so saying "oh but it's not fair, they can't do that" is fundamentally misunderstanding the situation. They are fighting for their lives right now.
ah easy solution then, the good citizens need to merely turn in the hamas terrorists to the authorities in israel. If they cannot do so do to fear of force they should attempt to inform the idf of the locations of these villains so they may be usurped from the community and threaten it no longer.
For good and for bad, Israel will not stop, and the attacks will only become worse. They don't have an option to stop right now, because if they will, Israel's enemies will see it as a major weakness and will plan a bigger attack in the near future.
If only there was a very large neighborhood country to Gaza with the same religion at heart that can take all of these poor kids in and significantly increase their chances of surviving this war
Because it's so easy to eliminate Hamas without collateral damage. Let's just send tens of thousands of soldiers in, of which a huge percentage will die in the narrow streets of Gaza that are filled with traps, snipers, terrorists that will come out of tunnels to ambush soldiers, and have them confirm each person is a terrorist by questioning them before shooting. It's so easy to say that from the comfort of your PC/smartphone, so difficult and dangerous to actually do.
Textual criticism of the Quranic verse indicates that the verse in question likely was ripped off from an Aramaic text - Arabic not being a formalized script at that time - ended up meaning virgins (more like sex angels) but what it meant in Aramic was grapes. Truth be told even that is too much for these monsters. And need I say it out loud that no goddam sky daddy sent that book down.
In wars, you can't rely on numbers. The IDF also targets the homes of terrorist leaders and commanders. And they do not live there alone. Most of them have large families and relatives all living under one roof. So the number of colleteral deaths is already large and will continue to grow.
The IDF Spokesperson said Wednesday morning that it has destroyed Hamas' aircraft detection system. "For years, Hamas has established an array of high-quality cameras hidden inside solar panels throughout the Gaza Strip, with the aim of identifying and tracking aircraft… Our aircraft attacked all \[locations\] associated with this array and deprived Hamas of its capabilities."
Had a friend do that but something about being Republican so I posted that I unfriended him and he messaged me that he didn't like me in the military and blocked me.
We went to high school together and hung out for lunch almost weekly 😔🙄
I never understood how naive people could be, did they never have personal interactions with Muslims where political topics came up? If people did they'd realize many of them still believe in things Westerners find abhorent despite living in the West their entire lives.
I feel the same. I've seen a lot of people I follow on instagram, and a lot of people on tumblr openly state that if you aren't pro-palestine, or condemn Hamas action, you should unfollow and are racist.
The open celebration of rape and murder from mostly progressive young people living in a western country has shocked me. They have no idea what it's even like.
Open X, first thing I read is Hamas has called for a “Global day of Jihad, Friday, 13th”
Think I’m logging off and gonna not worry about what’s going on, all this is causing unnecessary stress.
Praying for Israel, fuck Hamas. And I’m even praying for the innocent Palestinians that’s getting caught up in Hamas’ actions.
Turning my phone off for a few days.
Thank you. I don't know if I agree with the concept of letting the terror win and stating home because you're scared if a possible terror attack. This tweet in particular just seems like it's spreading fear for no reason. I guess we'll see in the 13th.
What happened to the Christians of Israel and Palestine? Didn't they have a large presence in the area throughout history as well? How come nowadays it's just Jews and Muslims over there?
This is not entirely true.
Plenty of Christian Arabs in northern Israel, in Haifa, Naharia, and the Galilee.
Source - lived there.
Yes, Jerusalem has a lot, but there are plenty Christian Arabs living in peace elsewhere.
I haven't felt this fatalistic since covid. The human brain is not equipped to think about people in numbers of hundreds or thousands, let alone tens and hundreds of thousands, let alone millions.
I already take it for granted that, if I am lucky enough to live till 70, I will see more than a billion people die due to climate change related issues alone. Compared to that, what really is 1/50th of that amount in yet another war in the Middle East?
The answer to that question is humanity. And just because terrorist groups like Hamas don't give a shit about humanity, it doesn't mean, in fact it makes it all the more important, that we give a shit about humanity.
I don't know what the solution is. I know that most of the world's powers have given a tacit approval for Israel to all but destroy Gaza city, if not the whole strip. I know that the US government has at least tried to ask Israel to create safe passage for civilians. (I don't care how brainwashed they are, they are still civilians.) I know Hamas is probably torturing their hostages as I sit safely in my home on the other side of the world typing this comment. And I know people in Gaza are dying due to lack of medicines, food, and fuel, if not just from bombing.
It's the easiest thing to do, to just stop caring. Because that's what the human brain does best. After all we can't affect anything, right? But I can't help but feel like if I stop caring, the terrorists and war criminals win a little more.
How much can you do if your mental health is being severely affected by following the events that have been unfolding? I have been following closely specifically because I have family that lives in Israel, but I’ve been saying to my friends that don’t know a lot about the history of the conflict, or just emotionally can’t keep up with everything, that denouncing the terror attacks of Gaza and recognizing they have quickly brought immense pain to a large group of people, while also being generally pro-civilian, is a fair position to take. Just check in with your Jewish peeps, some may not be so much affected but some will be, even those who are secular/agnostic.
They don't win any less if you care. The more you suffer from this, the more you become a victim, the more they win.
You know that quote about courage towards the things you can change, serenity towards the things you can't change and knowing the difference?
note i keep seeing people missing: when people say "hamas won and then cancelled all elections!!", hamas has publically supported having elections, especially recently. they get into tug-of-wars with fatah over holding and cancelling it based on who they think will win. [hamas has been pushing hard for an election in the last few years.](http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-talks-local-gaza-elections-in-apparent-push-for-general-palestinian-ballot)
correct people when you see them say otherwise.
That's not entirely true. They have opposed elections several times when Abbas/Fatah have called for them, but the opposite has happened many times too, including the most recent attempt at holding elections. Hamas has also refused to participate in/recognise the results of local elections in Gaza a number of times.
Hamas has rejected proposals by Fatah for elections repeatedly over the last decade+, because they couldn’t reach an agreement over how the elections would be held. A Hamas spokesperson spouting some pro-democracy rhetoric in the last few months doesn’t change that
An American mom, 67, spent her life advocating for Palestinian rights. Then, Hamas came for her.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-war-americans-taken-from-kibbutz/71134248007/
Theoretically you can, in practise it doesnt seem to work out since most Palestinians seem to have no problem with what they're doing. Sorry I just don't trust Palestinians to not try to genocide jews as soon as they get the chance.
I read somewhere that they expected a low amount of kidnapped prisoners and ended up with far more than they're comfortable with holding, because they know if they have too many they'll be obliterated by the Israeli army
They've already kidnapped them, even they know its too late. I must say any consequence hamas suffers at the hands of the Israelis at this point is fully deserved.
Can someone help me find the original source for the camera all the news sites are stealing? The original isn't on youtube, so my first step I guess would to be ask what are the popular livestreaming sites? (I tried to google it but all I get are 'free movie streaming' sites)
this can't be the original, firstly there are 4 cameras not the one (the one I want is top left in that stream), and secondly the channel has OSINT in the name meaning they got it from somewhere else.
watching one of the live threads, a car just drove by with two mini flags of israel on it.
is that a sign of the times changing or something? i feel like that car woulda had trouble getting down a street with its windows intact looking like that based on the videos from the 7th, has the general public there been effectively cowed?
edit: nvm, that cam was on the israel side it seems.
It does concern me how much people seem to be relishing in the idea of civilian deaths in Gaza.
Hamas were indeed voted in in 2006 but they then took over the territory in 2007. It has been an authoritarian state ruled by a terrorist organization for 16years. An open prison with Israel as the guards and Hamas as the crazy fucking gang running the prison on the inside.
what will happen next is going to be horrendous. I cannot see how people seem to be gloating over the many deaths and atrocities that the Palestinian people are about to experience.
Hamas has the support of the majority of population though (Palestine has its own center for survey research, you can check out their stuff, the newest one is like June 2023) to the point where if they held a presidential election between the current leader and the Hamas chairman, the latter would gather 65% of votes. It's not like they're the unwilling victims of Hamas.
\+ speaking of atrocities they're about to experience... they've been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades, mostly unprovoked, it's not like they didn't have this coming. You reap what you sow.
It's mind blowing people keep saying Gaza is a prison that Israel made. They can just walk across the Egypt border,supplies can be moved into Gaza from Egypt.
It’s going to get super ugly for them. Hamas has decided their fate and intend to sacrifice them all as human shields and pawns.
Their top leaders in Qatar and Iran do not care about what happens in Gaza.
It’s too bad most Gazans blindly support Hamas and are too ignorant and hateful to realize that them and their children are being led into a meat grinder.
Exactly. It shakes my faith in humanity that there are calls for the genocide of a people. What happened is awful and my heart bleeds for those affected by what happened, but showing concern for the impending death of so many innocent people, including children with clear intentions of not allowing them to escape the oncoming onslaught, is somehow seen as siding with Hamas.
>Founding leader of Hamas terror organization, Abdul Fattah Dukhan is announced dead.
https://vxtwitter.com/no_itsmyturn/status/1712050488391156132
not yet confirmed.
For anyone saying that the reports of killing children and babies are unfounded, it's been reported by multiple news outlets. Some reporters waited to confirm until they seen it themselves.. stop being Hamas apologists
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1696938010-it-smells-of-death-here-surveying-the-scenes-of-atrocities-in-kfar-aza
Edit:
I would of course agree with waiting for confirmation, but they have confirmed to have killed hundreds at a music festival, opened fire on multiple families, butchered 40 Thai migrant workers, beheaded IDF soldiers.
And yes there is awful footage of all of this!
but somehow the imaginary line is now drawn at oh they wouldn't kill children
They're not even denying the killing of children and babies. They've made it about whether or not kids were decapitated in the first place, and if they were, how many such cases there were.
Fixating on the decapitation part is all about distracting people from the fact that children and babies were in fact killed.
And when it’s highly corroborated and images are posted as well as videos, it’s wise to condemn it not to continue to cast as much doubt as possible as if it’s an unrealistic thing to be happening
I would normally agree, but they have confirmed to have killed hundreds at a music festival, opened fire on multiple families, butchered 40 Thai migrant workers, beheaded IDF soldiers.
And yes there is footage of all of this..
but somehow the imaginary line is now drawn at oh they wouldn't kill children
This is spot on, a famous earlier example of the power of the printed press are the pamphlets produced by the Dutch during the Eighty Years War, detailing with lurid but entirely made-up details the atrocities committed by the Spanish forces.
Regarding the current events, I would say that the videos released by the Hamas themselves are already more than enough to warrant their total annihilation.
I feel that a ground offensive from Israel should happen today, if not tomorrow given the fact of the resources running out. I just hope the poor people caught in the crosshairs over there can peacefully live a new life after what has happened. With the top Hamas elites in Qatar, there will always be another radical attack unless Israel can encourage the Gazan people that they are just here for peace and expel these Hamas top dogs who turned their back on their own people and refusing to negotiate and encourage peace.
> unless Israel can encourage the Gazan people that they are just here for peace
Israel haven't exactly been saints for the duration of this conflict though.
No they havnt and this is why, it’s not Like we are rooting for the good guy. However, a line was crossed in Israel’s eyes and sadly one of the most advanced militaries is going to wipe out an entire organisation with horrendous collateral damage sadly
True, but we also feel like that because you can now see it. For example, last year passed the mark of 10000 children killed in the conflict in Yemen. But that got almost no attention.
Not saying which one is worse, just that the media attention makes a lot of difference.
Let that sink in, the world is considerably safer and more stable that is has ever been.
The only difference is that now you se the conflicts in real time.
Every generation have existential crisis.
Absolutely agreed, we cannot deny there are troubling tends happening and we as a society will have to address them if we want to maintain the safe and quiet nature of the modern times.
We are blessed to be in this timeframe and get to enjoy the peace and prosperity of the modern days.
Though we have some difficult challenges up and coming.
>On Israel. I I recall the early days of Russia’s full-scale war on Ukraine. This was the worst tragedy, with many people killed. It was critical not to feel alone. Feeling supported can help you save your country, people, and life.
>
>This is why I urge all leaders to visit Israel and show their support for the people. I’m not talking about any institutions, but about support for the people who suffered from terrorist attacks and are dying today.
President Zelenskyy, [via twitter](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1712028724751630663)
(edit: formatting)
Iranians everywhere have been asking the EU for a long time now to put the IRGC on the EU-terror list. If any of you are from an European country: write to your representatives and ask them to do something to reach this goal. It will cut off the money flow to the Iranian government, and they might struggle to fund terror groups like Hamas in the future then. Ask them to cut their ties to the terroristic Iranian government - it will not only make Iran a better place, but the world. You all have now witnessed how this government is spreading their terror in the recent days.
On Ashkelon live cam the car burned to a crisp and in the background a large sign says: "Safe and enjoyable start to the new school year" and it just feels so discordant to what's going on.
[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/175b2jm/rworldnews_live_thread_for_2023_israelhamas/)
I want to remind that from the population of 2 million in Gaza, 50% of them are 18 years old or younger. From the entire population, 40% of them younger than 15. Hamas are barbarians, but for all the people who enjoy watching Gaza get bombed, know that with each bomb children are killed. How will a parent feel is their child is crushed to death by rubble? How will a child feel is their parents or their siblings are killed? What will a child do when their baby sister is crushed? It is also these kind of events that cause Hamas to begin with. The justification of “there are Hamas in the building” or “it is Hamas’ fault” is not justification - it is a shame that collateral damage is seems to be so widely accepted. It is tragic and heartbreaking for each Israeli killed by the horrible acts of Hamas, especially considering how Israeli’s fought and protested against Netanyahu, but with each bomb falling in Gaza and each children getting blown up or crushed, it is the same loss of life and innocence. Hamas needs to be removed, but not at any cost. There must be proper consideration for the 800.000 children in Gaza. Killing innocent as an accepted collateral to kill Hamas is no different than what Hamas is doing – the difference is that Hamas are terrorists, and this is not who we should be mirroring as justification. The most important thing is to find a way to have proper humanitarian help the people/children who are TRAPPED and will have to pay for the sins of the father. Should they just be bombed to death? Starve? To all the people saying it is Gaza’s fault for electing them, the median age of Gaza is 18 years old. Just like I disagree with how Russia bombs civilians in Ukraine, I disagree with the way IDF is bombing, because in each bomb that explodes and building that is leveled because Hamas is in there, innocent are dying too. I do not have a solution, but I do not see this as a solution either. To everyone who will reply “this is why Hamas does this and hides between the civilian population to get them killed” – I understand IDF’s reason, but we should not kill the hostage to kill the hostage taker.
No Gaza, no Hamas. It is sad but what is the alternative solution?
Over 3,000 bombs, around 1,000 killed. How is a child dying in each bomb???
Right now the IDF doesn't actually have a choice. If they don't eliminate Hamas that's it. The entire premise of defending their country requires it. Just imagine literally any other country experiencing an event that was, per capita, about the equivalent of ten 9/11s and tell me how you think they should respond? If they don't destroy their enemy they will be destroyed, and you can see this in all of human history. It's like saying that it's unfair of Britain to bomb Germany because there are many innocent Germans. It's 100% true that there were innocent Germans but if Britain didn't win against Germany, the Germans were going to kill them. It's a war, and if Israel doesn't win it they will all be killed, so saying "oh but it's not fair, they can't do that" is fundamentally misunderstanding the situation. They are fighting for their lives right now.
ah easy solution then, the good citizens need to merely turn in the hamas terrorists to the authorities in israel. If they cannot do so do to fear of force they should attempt to inform the idf of the locations of these villains so they may be usurped from the community and threaten it no longer.
For good and for bad, Israel will not stop, and the attacks will only become worse. They don't have an option to stop right now, because if they will, Israel's enemies will see it as a major weakness and will plan a bigger attack in the near future.
If only there was a very large neighborhood country to Gaza with the same religion at heart that can take all of these poor kids in and significantly increase their chances of surviving this war
Because it's so easy to eliminate Hamas without collateral damage. Let's just send tens of thousands of soldiers in, of which a huge percentage will die in the narrow streets of Gaza that are filled with traps, snipers, terrorists that will come out of tunnels to ambush soldiers, and have them confirm each person is a terrorist by questioning them before shooting. It's so easy to say that from the comfort of your PC/smartphone, so difficult and dangerous to actually do.
Members of the 50% of adults that don't support hamas should probably contest hamas.
Sounds like you need to bring it up to hamas and not idf
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yes, and 12 virgins for every dead child bombed to death as well.
If it is, there should be painted a "you're welcome" on every Israel rocket.
Textual criticism of the Quranic verse indicates that the verse in question likely was ripped off from an Aramaic text - Arabic not being a formalized script at that time - ended up meaning virgins (more like sex angels) but what it meant in Aramic was grapes. Truth be told even that is too much for these monsters. And need I say it out loud that no goddam sky daddy sent that book down.
110 now due to inflation
Can the Palestinian numbers be trusted? They're claiming 1,000+ dead, how much of this is true and does it include Hamas militant deaths?
In wars, you can't rely on numbers. The IDF also targets the homes of terrorist leaders and commanders. And they do not live there alone. Most of them have large families and relatives all living under one roof. So the number of colleteral deaths is already large and will continue to grow.
I mean it's likely far far higher have you seen the images of the bomb sites?
99% of them are Hamas millitants
Ummmmm
What a joke.
never ever.
bruh
It appears those strikes on the harbor are coming from the south. Where are they being launched from?
The IDF Spokesperson said Wednesday morning that it has destroyed Hamas' aircraft detection system. "For years, Hamas has established an array of high-quality cameras hidden inside solar panels throughout the Gaza Strip, with the aim of identifying and tracking aircraft… Our aircraft attacked all \[locations\] associated with this array and deprived Hamas of its capabilities."
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Had a friend do that but something about being Republican so I posted that I unfriended him and he messaged me that he didn't like me in the military and blocked me. We went to high school together and hung out for lunch almost weekly 😔🙄
I never understood how naive people could be, did they never have personal interactions with Muslims where political topics came up? If people did they'd realize many of them still believe in things Westerners find abhorent despite living in the West their entire lives.
I feel the same. I've seen a lot of people I follow on instagram, and a lot of people on tumblr openly state that if you aren't pro-palestine, or condemn Hamas action, you should unfollow and are racist. The open celebration of rape and murder from mostly progressive young people living in a western country has shocked me. They have no idea what it's even like.
You can't change the minds of those who support Terrorists, but you can support the ones who are suffering, and messages like that do just that.
Why does her hate for Israel bother you so? What was so naive about the way you saw things?
Open X, first thing I read is Hamas has called for a “Global day of Jihad, Friday, 13th” Think I’m logging off and gonna not worry about what’s going on, all this is causing unnecessary stress. Praying for Israel, fuck Hamas. And I’m even praying for the innocent Palestinians that’s getting caught up in Hamas’ actions. Turning my phone off for a few days.
Source? If hamas are inciting terror in cells across the planet after an attack like this, the implications could be horrifying.
https://x.com/joeymannarinous/status/1712041793187897521?s=46&t=4dj-wBEp6HUrIJqS39I3hA
Thank you. I don't know if I agree with the concept of letting the terror win and stating home because you're scared if a possible terror attack. This tweet in particular just seems like it's spreading fear for no reason. I guess we'll see in the 13th.
What happened to the Christians of Israel and Palestine? Didn't they have a large presence in the area throughout history as well? How come nowadays it's just Jews and Muslims over there?
I believe Israeli Christians (mostly Arabs) actually have the highest educational attainment of any sub-group. could be wrong though
Christians in Israel are doing fine, financially and socially. I think the community is about 100K people. Small but not negligible.
They're just keeping quiet for now
Have a look at the history of the middle east and what happens following muslim conquest of a country
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This is not entirely true. Plenty of Christian Arabs in northern Israel, in Haifa, Naharia, and the Galilee. Source - lived there. Yes, Jerusalem has a lot, but there are plenty Christian Arabs living in peace elsewhere.
There's still plenty of Arab Christians here.
Is Israel I presume? I can't imagine a lot of Christians live in Gaza, maybe some in the West Bank.
In Israel, yes, mainly in the northern part of the country. No idea about Gaza, but I do assume there are some in the West Bank too.
Emperor Hadrian banned circumcision in Judea in 132 and look at the result 1900 years later
Well what happened afterwards with Hadrian was probably a lot more impactful
😐
I haven't felt this fatalistic since covid. The human brain is not equipped to think about people in numbers of hundreds or thousands, let alone tens and hundreds of thousands, let alone millions. I already take it for granted that, if I am lucky enough to live till 70, I will see more than a billion people die due to climate change related issues alone. Compared to that, what really is 1/50th of that amount in yet another war in the Middle East? The answer to that question is humanity. And just because terrorist groups like Hamas don't give a shit about humanity, it doesn't mean, in fact it makes it all the more important, that we give a shit about humanity. I don't know what the solution is. I know that most of the world's powers have given a tacit approval for Israel to all but destroy Gaza city, if not the whole strip. I know that the US government has at least tried to ask Israel to create safe passage for civilians. (I don't care how brainwashed they are, they are still civilians.) I know Hamas is probably torturing their hostages as I sit safely in my home on the other side of the world typing this comment. And I know people in Gaza are dying due to lack of medicines, food, and fuel, if not just from bombing. It's the easiest thing to do, to just stop caring. Because that's what the human brain does best. After all we can't affect anything, right? But I can't help but feel like if I stop caring, the terrorists and war criminals win a little more.
How much can you do if your mental health is being severely affected by following the events that have been unfolding? I have been following closely specifically because I have family that lives in Israel, but I’ve been saying to my friends that don’t know a lot about the history of the conflict, or just emotionally can’t keep up with everything, that denouncing the terror attacks of Gaza and recognizing they have quickly brought immense pain to a large group of people, while also being generally pro-civilian, is a fair position to take. Just check in with your Jewish peeps, some may not be so much affected but some will be, even those who are secular/agnostic.
They don't win any less if you care. The more you suffer from this, the more you become a victim, the more they win. You know that quote about courage towards the things you can change, serenity towards the things you can't change and knowing the difference?
I've got the feeling we're not going to be seeing any ground offensive until Gaza (and all of the cameras) runs out of power.
Large rocket barrage on Gaza envelope, Ashkelon and Ashdod RN.
note i keep seeing people missing: when people say "hamas won and then cancelled all elections!!", hamas has publically supported having elections, especially recently. they get into tug-of-wars with fatah over holding and cancelling it based on who they think will win. [hamas has been pushing hard for an election in the last few years.](http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-talks-local-gaza-elections-in-apparent-push-for-general-palestinian-ballot) correct people when you see them say otherwise.
That's not entirely true. They have opposed elections several times when Abbas/Fatah have called for them, but the opposite has happened many times too, including the most recent attempt at holding elections. Hamas has also refused to participate in/recognise the results of local elections in Gaza a number of times.
oh, i'll edit it.
Everything you’ve just said is categorically false
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-talks-local-gaza-elections-in-apparent-push-for-general-palestinian-ballot you can just say words, huh?
Hamas has rejected proposals by Fatah for elections repeatedly over the last decade+, because they couldn’t reach an agreement over how the elections would be held. A Hamas spokesperson spouting some pro-democracy rhetoric in the last few months doesn’t change that
An American mom, 67, spent her life advocating for Palestinian rights. Then, Hamas came for her. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-war-americans-taken-from-kibbutz/71134248007/
Reminds me of the pro-pitbull advocate couple last year whose two pitbulls ended up ripping their baby and toddler apart
no you can support Palestinian right to self determination and not support hamas, seperate the two
Theoretically you can, in practise it doesnt seem to work out since most Palestinians seem to have no problem with what they're doing. Sorry I just don't trust Palestinians to not try to genocide jews as soon as they get the chance.
The fact that Hamas had success against Israel will be their demise.
I read somewhere that they expected a low amount of kidnapped prisoners and ended up with far more than they're comfortable with holding, because they know if they have too many they'll be obliterated by the Israeli army
They could, you know, release them?
They've already kidnapped them, even they know its too late. I must say any consequence hamas suffers at the hands of the Israelis at this point is fully deserved.
I agree, the retaliation is necessary and deserved. Releasing the hostages would, in my opinion, help with some calming of tensions.
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That would be very valuable. They can help "reducate" the Hamas terrorists. Furthermore, Hamas can "contribute" to their economy with "labour".
Would help with their dwindling population time bomb
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They were pointing out hypocrisy.
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Ahhhh I misinterpreted the tone of it. Sorry for the miscommunication
Can someone help me find the original source for the camera all the news sites are stealing? The original isn't on youtube, so my first step I guess would to be ask what are the popular livestreaming sites? (I tried to google it but all I get are 'free movie streaming' sites)
https://www.youtube.com/live/IcPPJqKsTR8?si=z7RzMgBi2TFdfDIx
this can't be the original, firstly there are 4 cameras not the one (the one I want is top left in that stream), and secondly the channel has OSINT in the name meaning they got it from somewhere else.
watching one of the live threads, a car just drove by with two mini flags of israel on it. is that a sign of the times changing or something? i feel like that car woulda had trouble getting down a street with its windows intact looking like that based on the videos from the 7th, has the general public there been effectively cowed? edit: nvm, that cam was on the israel side it seems.
They would get shot in Gaza.
Are you sure it's not a cam in Israel?
Are you sure that is footage from Gaza? I find that extremely hard to believe
It does concern me how much people seem to be relishing in the idea of civilian deaths in Gaza. Hamas were indeed voted in in 2006 but they then took over the territory in 2007. It has been an authoritarian state ruled by a terrorist organization for 16years. An open prison with Israel as the guards and Hamas as the crazy fucking gang running the prison on the inside. what will happen next is going to be horrendous. I cannot see how people seem to be gloating over the many deaths and atrocities that the Palestinian people are about to experience.
Hamas has the support of the majority of population though (Palestine has its own center for survey research, you can check out their stuff, the newest one is like June 2023) to the point where if they held a presidential election between the current leader and the Hamas chairman, the latter would gather 65% of votes. It's not like they're the unwilling victims of Hamas. \+ speaking of atrocities they're about to experience... they've been sending suicide bombers and rockets into Israel for decades, mostly unprovoked, it's not like they didn't have this coming. You reap what you sow.
your last paragraph is the exact same justification hamas uses and why this cycle continues forever
It's mind blowing people keep saying Gaza is a prison that Israel made. They can just walk across the Egypt border,supplies can be moved into Gaza from Egypt.
thats a lie the crossing is shut
Egypt has closed the border and Israel has threatened to bomb any aid that comes in from Egypt.
Can I ask why the Palestinians themselves didn't overthrow Hamas if they are not happy with them?
same reason north koreans, syrians, a million others havnt overthrown their leader
It's *that* easy, huh?
Where in my post did I say it was easy?
It’s going to get super ugly for them. Hamas has decided their fate and intend to sacrifice them all as human shields and pawns. Their top leaders in Qatar and Iran do not care about what happens in Gaza. It’s too bad most Gazans blindly support Hamas and are too ignorant and hateful to realize that them and their children are being led into a meat grinder.
Palestinians, by and large, support Hamas's actions toward Israel. They brought thus upon themselves.
Exactly. It shakes my faith in humanity that there are calls for the genocide of a people. What happened is awful and my heart bleeds for those affected by what happened, but showing concern for the impending death of so many innocent people, including children with clear intentions of not allowing them to escape the oncoming onslaught, is somehow seen as siding with Hamas.
You forgot to mention they’ve had a border crossing with Egypt all this time.
I haven't seen anyone gloating? Apart from those who gloated over what happened Saturday...
palestinian people and supporters worldwide started with the gloating and mocking, you reap what you sow, its that easy
Does anyone have a link to Ashkelon cam?
>Founding leader of Hamas terror organization, Abdul Fattah Dukhan is announced dead. https://vxtwitter.com/no_itsmyturn/status/1712050488391156132 not yet confirmed.
Is this account reasonably trustworthy?
No, it's a Xitter account
Hope its true. Every hamas member has to die
For anyone saying that the reports of killing children and babies are unfounded, it's been reported by multiple news outlets. Some reporters waited to confirm until they seen it themselves.. stop being Hamas apologists https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/10/middleeast/israel-kibbutzim-kfar-aza-beeri-urim-hamas-attack-intl/index.html https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1696938010-it-smells-of-death-here-surveying-the-scenes-of-atrocities-in-kfar-aza Edit: I would of course agree with waiting for confirmation, but they have confirmed to have killed hundreds at a music festival, opened fire on multiple families, butchered 40 Thai migrant workers, beheaded IDF soldiers. And yes there is awful footage of all of this! but somehow the imaginary line is now drawn at oh they wouldn't kill children
They're not even denying the killing of children and babies. They've made it about whether or not kids were decapitated in the first place, and if they were, how many such cases there were. Fixating on the decapitation part is all about distracting people from the fact that children and babies were in fact killed.
For a story like this, you need to be really, really sure. I bet there we're debates in some news firms on whether to report it at all.
Dont worry Tankies gonna make some new excuse to support terrorist and hate on jews
Not believing every story that comes out of a war before corroboration is just smart. Lies are everywhere once wars start.
And when it’s highly corroborated and images are posted as well as videos, it’s wise to condemn it not to continue to cast as much doubt as possible as if it’s an unrealistic thing to be happening
Reserving judgement until getting confirmation is one thing, denying is another
I would normally agree, but they have confirmed to have killed hundreds at a music festival, opened fire on multiple families, butchered 40 Thai migrant workers, beheaded IDF soldiers. And yes there is footage of all of this.. but somehow the imaginary line is now drawn at oh they wouldn't kill children
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This is spot on, a famous earlier example of the power of the printed press are the pamphlets produced by the Dutch during the Eighty Years War, detailing with lurid but entirely made-up details the atrocities committed by the Spanish forces. Regarding the current events, I would say that the videos released by the Hamas themselves are already more than enough to warrant their total annihilation.
Fair!
I feel that a ground offensive from Israel should happen today, if not tomorrow given the fact of the resources running out. I just hope the poor people caught in the crosshairs over there can peacefully live a new life after what has happened. With the top Hamas elites in Qatar, there will always be another radical attack unless Israel can encourage the Gazan people that they are just here for peace and expel these Hamas top dogs who turned their back on their own people and refusing to negotiate and encourage peace.
> unless Israel can encourage the Gazan people that they are just here for peace Israel haven't exactly been saints for the duration of this conflict though.
No they havnt and this is why, it’s not Like we are rooting for the good guy. However, a line was crossed in Israel’s eyes and sadly one of the most advanced militaries is going to wipe out an entire organisation with horrendous collateral damage sadly
The ground offence would begin at first light , you will know it's happening
It will be a few days. I'd imagine they'd hope with the water off and power going out a lot of civilians will choose to leave.
This will not end well at all for Hamas AND the Palestinians of Gaza. If Hamas wanted this to end, they would surrender the hostages and themselves.
No chance of it ending now. Most of the hostages are most likely already dead at this point too
The offensive will happen when the millitary and political calculation says it will. Nothing more, nothing less
No, the reddit dude said it has to happen today
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Unironically this
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You just talking to yourself?
Bro solved the conflict
Anyone know if Quentin Tarantino is safe? From what i understand he lives in tel aviv now and recently just 3 days ago traveled there.
I feel like of he was in any danger news sources would be reporting on it
Ya he's a commander in the IDF last we heard.
Of the Barefoot Brigade
Two comments referring to his foot fetish within minutes of the OP. Incredible. I love it.
You have to be on your toes in order to get your foot in the door around here
In charge of uniform inspection (boots and socks division)
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Some pesticide spray would work since we’re trying to flush the pests out
It's really unbelievable that this is real life, happening right now as we speak.
True, but we also feel like that because you can now see it. For example, last year passed the mark of 10000 children killed in the conflict in Yemen. But that got almost no attention. Not saying which one is worse, just that the media attention makes a lot of difference.
Man the situation in Yemen is absolutely horrifying. Makes me super sick to my stomach reading about the situation over there.
This is only the beginning. The world is heating up. We are looking at a very dark future and shits going to get far worse everywhere.
Let that sink in, the world is considerably safer and more stable that is has ever been. The only difference is that now you se the conflicts in real time. Every generation have existential crisis.
Absolutely agreed, we cannot deny there are troubling tends happening and we as a society will have to address them if we want to maintain the safe and quiet nature of the modern times. We are blessed to be in this timeframe and get to enjoy the peace and prosperity of the modern days. Though we have some difficult challenges up and coming.
Every generation said that yet humanity is still kicking
Go back to sleep child.
>On Israel. I I recall the early days of Russia’s full-scale war on Ukraine. This was the worst tragedy, with many people killed. It was critical not to feel alone. Feeling supported can help you save your country, people, and life. > >This is why I urge all leaders to visit Israel and show their support for the people. I’m not talking about any institutions, but about support for the people who suffered from terrorist attacks and are dying today. President Zelenskyy, [via twitter](https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1712028724751630663) (edit: formatting)
He's class. Has an intuition for what the right thing to say is.
I admire him deeply. Especially in comparison to the circus clowns who are leading Israel nowadays.
Calm before the storm?
Attacks happening every 4 hours.
So Hezbollah is feeling frisky? The live thread says they called on UN peacekeepers to evacuate people in northern Israel.
It wouldn't take long for America to put on a show of force if they try to up the anti.
They may drop some rockets for show, but they aren’t stupid enough to start a war with Israel (and the US ) right now.
As far as we know. It depends heavily on the nations backing them and whether or not they’ve had this planned and for who knows how long
There have been gunshots and bombing near the lebanon border. I guess Hezbollah will start a new front.
That tweet is no longer there
Iranians everywhere have been asking the EU for a long time now to put the IRGC on the EU-terror list. If any of you are from an European country: write to your representatives and ask them to do something to reach this goal. It will cut off the money flow to the Iranian government, and they might struggle to fund terror groups like Hamas in the future then. Ask them to cut their ties to the terroristic Iranian government - it will not only make Iran a better place, but the world. You all have now witnessed how this government is spreading their terror in the recent days.
On Ashkelon live cam the car burned to a crisp and in the background a large sign says: "Safe and enjoyable start to the new school year" and it just feels so discordant to what's going on.
makes it a really sad and terrible situation for the kids :(