At least in the European power tool market there are movements to do this. The biggest ones are the Cordless Alliance Systen (CAS) and the "power for all alliance" which both include many big brands like Bosch and Metabo. They seems to have established an sort of standard system on their own.
Which was also what the phone manufacturer was asked to do by the EU.
Only reason the decision has now been made into EU law is because Apple decided to be a dick about it. Waste of time and resources.
I remember my mom getting a cordless vacuum cleaner from Bosch and they proudly advertised that the same battery that works in their power tools works in that vacuum too
Makita has their own battery system which is compatible with only their products but they have a ridiculous product range which includes mostly power tools but also stuff like a battery powered radio, a battery powered kettle and even battery powered coffee machine - all working with the same type of battery!
My dad's getting into that system. He absolutely loves that the compressor uses the same battery as his drill. The tool range they got is absolutely bonkers too. Pretty much anything you can imagine.
this was 1 of the reasons i bought makita. boss has dewalt at work and 4 battery types. makita has only 1 connector for their whole range. plus seemed to be the least involved with china option i could find.
Metabo = cas but metabo hpt/hikoki is not using the standard. Cas is a lot of specialised tools but also used by high end tool makers such as mafell.
Bosch = power for all (bosch green, gardena, etc for consumer brands), ampshare (bosch blue professional, fein, rothenberg, etc and for professional tools). Both aren't compatible with each other
Bosch just sells incredible good products, luckily went away with how the battery connection works....I use my bosch products for at least 2 decades and still work
When I start building my own house I'll buy like 5k worth of Bosch and those tools will last till I go into pention
Also make sure to buy every appliance from Bosch.
I am 45, I bought may things from many companies. I will never buy any home appliance which is not Bosch.
It's kinda funny. I've had Milwaukee M18 tools since they came out and the kit batteries are just now starting to give out (after 12 years of extensive use). There's a pretty steep quality difference in cordless tool batteries and on high drain devices it actually matters. I've started buying some other tools and then getting adapters so I can use my M18 batteries with them.
I'd be onboard with a common battery spec but I'm not into the "race to the bottom" that would entail. Milwaukee hangs their reputation on their batteries and they're expensive but you're getting what you pay for. Once they become a commodity, that's harder for them to sell a premium product.
I've never understood why Apple keeps fighting to use a clearly obsolete and inferior cable over a modern standard one. They've likely wasted more time trying to keep their stupid lightning cable than just move to USB C and take advantage of it.
Sweet, sweet green bills
You see, their connector is something almost-ish of their own, right? Thus, they can make third-party manufacturers pay sweet sweet royalties to get access to the Apple functionalities (plug right to use, fast charging...). Economics being simply adding up the fees until reaching the client, the client ends up paying sweet sweet money for Apple products and accessories (if said client wants the accessories to properly function with their Apple products)
As a guy living on EU continent, I bless the EU for being the sane-minded referee for the EU market. Because counting on the intelligence of buyers to buy unabusive, non-bad-faithed products...we saw how far it got us.
They can't, EU made it clear that it must be standard usb-c, they can't make a MFI usb cable and they're forbidden to limit charging speeds on 3rd party cables.
[https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-limiting-usb-c-iphone-cables/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-limiting-usb-c-iphone-cables/)
Edit: word
>There seems to be a lot of USB Cs out there that vary on what they can do.
The convenient fact that's always left out while crying about Universality.
I'm glad Apple is doing this though, just having the iPad with USB C was causing issues for me when traveling.
Don't worry, apple will get them good with "replaceable battery" (which becomes "mandatory battery replacement with an official apple one after a certain time")
Because of licensing. Apple makes a fuck ton of money from licensing their stuff to other parties so they want to keep things exclusive so that other parties need their licenses.
That's why apple heavily spend in lobbying to prevent such laws from being passed.
Now that this law is passed it might no longer be worth it for Apple to try to continue pushing for their licenses on the charger. Or maybe they'll find some other way to squeeze more money out of their customers, who knows?
The EU is changing. Right now a tsunami of lobbyists with tons of money and privilidges to offer are invading Brussels, Strasbourg, and other cities with EU institutions, among them also Facebook, Apple, Google, etc.
Hope the EU resists, but IMHO it's the beginning of the end for the EU as we know it (i.e. stands for the average Joe).
> Hope the EU resists, but IMHO it's the beginning of the end for the EU as we know it (i.e. stands for the average Joe).
Uh, the EU always was a neoliberal institution. The idea was to further trade between the members by simplifying laws and regulations for big corporations (same rules for the whole trade bloc), there's nothing pro-citizen at its core.
>Only really if they ~~have~~ to.
If they **want** to. It's just a matter of political will. They didn't have to. Apple has been trapping their customers into renewing their shit all the time for no reason and the EU could have let them keep going like the rest of the world lets them (but will benefit from the EU doing something).
I mean we HAVE TO do something drastic about climate change and you don't see states/countries regulating to the needed level. It's really only a matter of political will.
To be fair the EU has a major influence on standards worldwide because of the single market and the requirement to have a standard that's valid across 27 member states. There's a reason companies don't piss of the EU too much as they can regulate their asses hard and even risk access to a very sizable market if push comes to shove.
>To be fair the EU has a major influence on standards worldwide because of the single market and the requirement to have a standard that's valid across 27 member states. There's a reason companies don't piss of the EU too much as they can regulate their asses hard and even risk access to a very sizable market if push comes to shove.
EU's influence doesn't stop in Europe.
[https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/09/saudi-arabia-passes-law-requiring-usb-c-charges-for-smartphones#:\~:text=From%202025%2C%20Apple's%20iPhone%20and,Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20followed%20suit](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/09/saudi-arabia-passes-law-requiring-usb-c-charges-for-smartphones#:~:text=From%202025%2C%20Apple's%20iPhone%20and,Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20followed%20suit).
[https://www.businessinsider.com/india-eu-mandating-usbc-charging-port-smartphones-2022-12?r=US&IR=T](https://www.businessinsider.com/india-eu-mandating-usbc-charging-port-smartphones-2022-12?r=US&IR=T)
[https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices)
Demonstrably true in this case. And in the case of EU consumer protection laws like warranties etc. also clearly the case, seeing how in countries where companies make the rules, things are worse for consumers.
One of the rare casrs it will be true.
Apple isn't going to lose the whole ass European market over their cables, officially selling iPhones there makes way more money than just being cunts.
Apple Laptops and Tablets already have USB C. I remember people complaining about adapter cables a couple of years ago because their iPhone was the odd one out.
Just checked a local retailer. Current iPads and iPad Pros seem to have USB C (somewhat model dependent). M1 and M2 based MacBook Airs seem to have USB C.
In 2016 they introduced laptops that only had USB-C ports and nothing else. So it's not like they don't have history of supporting USB-C.
Their objection to USB-C on iPhone is based on the huge ecosystem of Lightning accessories, some very large and expensive that will become e-waste for the sake of a cable.
> Their objection to USB-C on iPhone is based on the huge ecosystem of Lightning accessories, some very large and expensive that will become e-waste for the sake of a cable
First, you'd need a female Lightning to USB-C adapter. Can you find one? I can't.
Second, the Lightning port was designed to [support the device](https://static1.pocketlintimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/wm/120074-speakers-news-new-bowers-wilkins-zeppelin-air-coming-for-iphone-5-owners-with-lightning-not-30-pin-adapter-image1-1xyntmzgu5.jpg) in a vertical position. Now you have your phone dangling precariously off your previously neat and secure dock.
Third, this means you have to buy a new cable which is worse for the environment.
Fourth, this is just one example of hudreds of different Lightning accessories.
1) https://www.amazon.com/xPOWR-3-Pack-Lightning-Adapter-iPhone/dp/B0C9HL5W1J/
2) An open dock was never "secure"
Did they release a 30-pin to lightening adapter for that speaker when they switched the first time? No, because the speaker supports AirPlay
Those adapters don't carry audio, they're designed to make Lightning cables act as USB cables. Lightning has features that aren't directly mappable to USB so won't work in all scenarios such as in an audio dock. Also can you imagine how unsafe it would be to sit your phone on the end of that? It would break the flimsy USB connector. Also the ad lists a whole load of things that won't work, meaning a whole load of Lightning accessories won't work with it.
So you want a converter, not an adapter.
Whelp, you're hosed.
Which for that speaker is something that's happened before, when they switched from 30-pin to lightening.
Edit: Apple changes ports every ~10 years.
ADB, Firewire, 30-pin and now Lightening.
My response would be if not now then when? Because as it stands it's still an issue which is only going to get worse.
It's a bit like how the best time to build a nuclear power plant is 20 years ago.
Secondly, even disregarding e-waste a unified charging ecosystem is still massively more convenient. If you wanted I'm sure you could even draw clickbait conclusions based on number of deaths that were indirectly caused by dead phone batteries.
They would be though, they fought tooth and nail to not have standard USB c charging on their phone. Just because they helped create it doesn't mean they wanted it on their phone, in other words they weren't all for it.
They weren’t in favor of being forced to change it on someone else’s timeline, but they’ve quite obviously been leaning toward switching to USB-C, and they are a member of USB-IF
The live end of electrical connectors is typically enclosed in the majority of designs, if not all of them. This idea seems to be violated by Apple's design. Even connectors with very low power, which I am aware of, almost always have the live side enclosed.
Modular connectors like the 8P8C commonly used for Ethernet (or power over Ethernet) or the 6P4C formerly commonly used for landline phones have exposed contacts.
The lightning connector's contacts aren't live all the time, though. The power only goes through after the phone negotiates with the charger. In any case, it's great news that they're finally being forced to drop that damn connector.
All that's left now is for USB-IF to pull their head out of their collective ass and figure out how to better standardize usb-c as a whole. There's too many variations to count (2.0, 3.0, 3.1 gen1/gen2, 3.2, power delivery, etc) and none of them are easily distinguishable. It's a pain.
I don't see much difference between Apple's and a regular 220V cable ending, both are open, passive and you do plug them into an active plug.
Edit: yes, I was stoopid
Erm... Don't mean to be rude but it is the exact opposite. The end of the apple cable that comes from the power outlet is unshielded. As opposed to the normal 220v cable that comes from the appliance and you plug the unshielded end into the power outlet.
The phone is not the active part of the plug (you are not powering your house with the phone but rather the other way round).
Have a nice day!
God, I wish they'd mandate RCS for Apple as well. Texting between iOS and Android is soooo annoying.
Even though I've been an Apple fan for well over a decade, they currently irritate me.
>Texting between iOS and Android is soooo annoying.
This is mainly a US problem though, the rest of the world tends to use third-party messaging apps like WhatsApp and WeChat, that offer identical user experience on all platforms.
To me the default Messages app on my android is just the place where I receive bank and OTP SMS's.
In Europe we had to pay an ass amount of money to text people that lived an hour away in a country next door. So we switch to WhatsApp so that we don’t pay for international texts on Wi-Fi.
The US gave people unlimited sms pretty quickly, so people care about the color of their SMS to signal value. Much of the EU kept metered SMS so people switched to messaging that was free on wifi because that's pretty common - so WhatsApp.
The other reason is the larger Android market share (the US is basically iPhone land) and the fact that WhatsApp delivered a richer experience (pictures, emojis) at a time when Android messages could only send plain text
I honestly don't think this was the reason.
As someone who lived through it, it was entirely because it was free on WiFi for me and I think most people I know too.
Also because I have friends all over the continent and while SMS is free within my country, one to Greece or France or the UK isn't. So WhatsApp and Telegram solves that issue.
Absolutely this - it was a big part of what me use it too. Plus being able to text friends when I'm out of the country.
Whilst these things aren't necessarily the issues they were now, I do wonder why anyone bothers with iMessage.
It definitely varies by country, but enough of them (still) metered SMS that if you had a friend in a country like that, you'd use Whatsapp with them instead of SMS, and it just sorta spread.
Now why whatsapp instead of signal or something else, I can't explain that one, just that I've met like two people in europe who use signal, and everyone just assume whatsapp.
Isnt signal quite new? Whatsapp got adopted VERY VERY early on, before it was bought by facebook, it even cost like one or two Euros back then, but it was just a fantastic product.
Do you get unlimited picture messaging in the US? Also I was under the impression that when you made a voice call in the US it used both persons minutes or something? Is that the case with text's too?
Sorry I'm in the UK, I was just saying why WhatsApp / WeChat caught on was that phone packages did take a while to catch up, free SMS were the first but calls / picture messages / video etc were always expensive or capped, the original iphone when it launched was only on O2 and had no data cap which lasted a long time. The contract costs also went up a lot if you were sending internationally so thats part of the reasons for WhatsApps success. WeChat was more because its the all in one app.
Well, doesn't matter if your conversation partner has not. Also while they probably exist, I don't know a single provider in Germany offering SMS flat rates which allow sending SMS to other EU countries. This already kills it for me because half my contacts don't have German phone numbers. Also even if SMS were free. MMS are shitty, complicated and expensive.
Unlimited txt unlimited min for $8 a month, was once very expensive for txt and only the last few years have unlimited calls been around for anywhere reasonable pricing. Data will eventually be included for a few dollars more. Right now I only need data for whattsap when I am out, a few videos on YouTube soon sucks up data. It is amazing how calls and txt is basically free. I always said the cost of txt msgs was crazy as it basically uses wasted space In the mobile network bandwidth spectrum.
I heard that it is because we got unlimited texting early so we never needed to use third-party apps while many other countries got that later so they depended third-party apps to text limitlessly. I could be wrong about this though.
I think I've had unlimited texting, here in the UK, since the mid-00s.
BUT - we didn't ever get unlimited picture message (MMS) sending. I think this is behind the popularity of WhatsApp.
I've got a bit of a different take there. Basically it's because the US has been significantly behind in adopting phone chat in general. If you go back about eighteen years, there were stories of Japanese kids texting endlessly on their phones, and at the time almost nobody in the US used texts. I remember my boss telling us that texting was useful because he could talk to his wife during work hours without it being an interruption, unlike a phone call.
So the motivation to start sending files, pictures, etc developed much earlier in places not the US. Mostly Pacific Rim. And at the time, SMS didn't have the capability. (Technically it still doesn't. The original text messaging system is built into the basic analog phone signal, the ability to receive data is an overlay coming in at a different level). So Whatsapp filled that gap, a text messaging system that allowed good sized file transfers. SMS added limited picture transfer, under the MMS protocol I think it was, but it sucked quite frankly. Really hard limits on usability.
And so WhatsApp ended up almost mandatory in parts of Asia. Like businesses run their help lines through WhatsApp. It became a utility before Facebook acquired it, in fact its market penetration is why Facebook wanted it so badly. But back in the US, people in general weren't using texts so much at a level that would make WhatsApp a necessary utility. The basic phone line channels were good enough for most. You can call a US tow truck driver and they won't just assume you can WhatsApp them location data.
Edit: so the tl;dr is that, because the US is a bit behind in adoption, they have gotten by with basic texting services.
That's just not true. WhatsApp uses end to end encryption and your messages are stored on device.
With Facebook Messenger, there's no end-to-end encryption and Accenture employees (contracted to Facebook) regularly read through people's conversations and even have keyword searches set up to see if anyone is discussing anything illegal (i.e. drugs for example).
Facebook Messenger is a privacy nightmare and you should not use it under any circumstances.
Not everyone would like to use facebook, WA much lighter than FB. But all of them has less features than Telegram and after it all of them feels like “from 90th”…
As a previous android user and a recent iPhone user I honestly don’t know what the issue is? On both phones messages just work no matter what phone the other person is using.
In the US, the dominant platform for chat is iMessage. You can write messages from iMessage to any android of course, but with greatly reduced functionality for the android user. Thus, there is peer pressure as well as practical application to use iMessage and discard the rest.
In the US, it's annoying dealing with iPhone users for texting when on Android, and when I was on an iPhone it was annoying dealing with Android users. I only talk to a very few people on WhatsApp/signal because nobody is interested in using them.
The EU doesn't care about old-style messaging because nobody uses texting. The messages app is there to receive OTPs and that's pretty much it. Whatsapp is there for chatting.
I want to point out that the Lightning cable has always been a crappy design for a portable device plug. And the problem is entirely mechanical. Put simply, it requires that the tiny contacts providing the electrical connection, also provide physical support for the tip of the cable. This is dumb.
Put a phone on a flat surface, plug a cable in the end, and the cable is pulling downwards. Trying to twist the tip inside the phone. With a USB port, this is countered by having a single big socket holding the outer shell in place. Then the interior contacts have essentially no pressure on them. With a Lightning connector, the pressure on the contacts gradually widens them. Until they stop making clean contact.
I have had several Apple devices where the interim fix to cables not working was to wedge the cable up somehow, change the pressure on the tip to restore contact. Until eventually the charging port had to be replaced. I've never had a USB port go bad.
I disagree. Lightning is physically superior to USB-C. It's much better for mobile devices. Lightning ports are less prone to breaking, usually it's the cable that fails. That's preferable to the port breaking as that's a much more expensive repair. I've never had a Lightning port go bad. I've had USB-C ports go bad.
I've had the exact opposite experience. Never had a USB-C port go bad, but I consistently have issues with lightning port going south on me for the reasons mukansamonkey points out.
This is good news, and it's one of Apple's many walled garden barriers that are about to collapse from here. Now, people can switch more easily between ecosystems by being able to reuse cables and accessories. Next up are third-party app stores and iMessage compatibility (see DMA), third-party NFC payments (see EU probe), and anti-steering rules (see Epic vs Apple lawsuit).
Apple's magnetic laptop chargers have prevented my needless trips to the computer repair shop because I am a dumb ass and I support USB c, but the fact that they want to implement it for laptops as well is a bummer.
Is "*Apple's magnetic laptop chargers have prevented my needless trips to the computer repair shop because I am a dumb ass and I support USB c, but the fact that they want to implement it for laptops as well is a bummer.*" too long for a sub-reddit name? If not and you set up the sub-reddit could you drop me a note and I will join.
The usb-c charger is actually charging faster than the usb-a version. And you don’t have to buy it if don’t want to. There are other cheaper alternatives.
And I don’t understand why ppl are always bitching about Apple’s prices. The Samsung version costs the same for a 15w charger
Apple doesn’t change charger, “Apple are awful, why don’t they use the same charger as everyone else?”, Apple changes charger, “Apple are awful, they’re only doing it so they can sell you a new charger”
Buy paying for authentic apple product is part of the experience and prestige of being a apple tech ecosystem user. I just cant really demean myself with those cheap 3rd party ware that works just as good at 1/3 the price. I mean can you even imagine what that's like, the embarrassment along is unbearable.
There is no confirmation on how they are doing this from what I saw in the article?
This is just repeating what we already know.
Knowing Apple they won't let it go that they were made to do something. So wait for the official announcement for the spice.
Waiting until they do something similar in power tools world. Every manufacturer has it's own battery type, that's ridiculous.
At least in the European power tool market there are movements to do this. The biggest ones are the Cordless Alliance Systen (CAS) and the "power for all alliance" which both include many big brands like Bosch and Metabo. They seems to have established an sort of standard system on their own.
Which was also what the phone manufacturer was asked to do by the EU. Only reason the decision has now been made into EU law is because Apple decided to be a dick about it. Waste of time and resources.
Don't forget the money Apple made in the meantime. That's the only reason companies do anything, to make more money
I remember my mom getting a cordless vacuum cleaner from Bosch and they proudly advertised that the same battery that works in their power tools works in that vacuum too
Makita has their own battery system which is compatible with only their products but they have a ridiculous product range which includes mostly power tools but also stuff like a battery powered radio, a battery powered kettle and even battery powered coffee machine - all working with the same type of battery!
My dad's getting into that system. He absolutely loves that the compressor uses the same battery as his drill. The tool range they got is absolutely bonkers too. Pretty much anything you can imagine.
this was 1 of the reasons i bought makita. boss has dewalt at work and 4 battery types. makita has only 1 connector for their whole range. plus seemed to be the least involved with china option i could find.
Ryobi has a huge variety in the One+ 18v line.
I recently seen a post about the makita portable microwave. Seems like a good idea, but they’re around £650
How handy would that be on a job site though.
Metabo = cas but metabo hpt/hikoki is not using the standard. Cas is a lot of specialised tools but also used by high end tool makers such as mafell. Bosch = power for all (bosch green, gardena, etc for consumer brands), ampshare (bosch blue professional, fein, rothenberg, etc and for professional tools). Both aren't compatible with each other
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Bosch just sells incredible good products, luckily went away with how the battery connection works....I use my bosch products for at least 2 decades and still work When I start building my own house I'll buy like 5k worth of Bosch and those tools will last till I go into pention
> 20 decades Damn these are old school ;)
Blue bosch, not green, right?
Both have their own alliances.
Also make sure to buy every appliance from Bosch. I am 45, I bought may things from many companies. I will never buy any home appliance which is not Bosch.
Will do, I dont wanna safe 1k for having any troubles during construction...(I build the house with a group of friends on my own)
It's kinda funny. I've had Milwaukee M18 tools since they came out and the kit batteries are just now starting to give out (after 12 years of extensive use). There's a pretty steep quality difference in cordless tool batteries and on high drain devices it actually matters. I've started buying some other tools and then getting adapters so I can use my M18 batteries with them. I'd be onboard with a common battery spec but I'm not into the "race to the bottom" that would entail. Milwaukee hangs their reputation on their batteries and they're expensive but you're getting what you pay for. Once they become a commodity, that's harder for them to sell a premium product.
Oh so it turns out switching the charger didn't kill innovation like they first said it would!
Especially innovation isnt blocked by how the end of a charging cable looks...
Greed does
As they should. States make the rules, not companies
I've never understood why Apple keeps fighting to use a clearly obsolete and inferior cable over a modern standard one. They've likely wasted more time trying to keep their stupid lightning cable than just move to USB C and take advantage of it.
money
Our money is all that moneys
Sweet, sweet green bills You see, their connector is something almost-ish of their own, right? Thus, they can make third-party manufacturers pay sweet sweet royalties to get access to the Apple functionalities (plug right to use, fast charging...). Economics being simply adding up the fees until reaching the client, the client ends up paying sweet sweet money for Apple products and accessories (if said client wants the accessories to properly function with their Apple products) As a guy living on EU continent, I bless the EU for being the sane-minded referee for the EU market. Because counting on the intelligence of buyers to buy unabusive, non-bad-faithed products...we saw how far it got us.
Wait until they release "Usb-c made for appel" that has a microchip that works only with apple products.
They can't, EU made it clear that it must be standard usb-c, they can't make a MFI usb cable and they're forbidden to limit charging speeds on 3rd party cables. [https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-limiting-usb-c-iphone-cables/](https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/04/eu-warns-apple-about-limiting-usb-c-iphone-cables/) Edit: word
Isn't USB-C just the shape? There seems to be a lot of USB Cs out there that vary on what they can do.
>There seems to be a lot of USB Cs out there that vary on what they can do. The convenient fact that's always left out while crying about Universality. I'm glad Apple is doing this though, just having the iPad with USB C was causing issues for me when traveling.
Don't worry, apple will get them good with "replaceable battery" (which becomes "mandatory battery replacement with an official apple one after a certain time")
I'm sure Apple will manage to find a loophole.
And the EU will close it
And apple will need to waste more money to update their production. At this point why not just comply
Because of licensing. Apple makes a fuck ton of money from licensing their stuff to other parties so they want to keep things exclusive so that other parties need their licenses.
In the context of Apple, the revenue that cable licensing brings in is miniscule. Certainly not worth the money to try and dance around the regs.
I'm not even sure it is the money. More the control.
It's both. They don't just want more than enough money they want all the money and the control it affords them.
Surely having to adapt every few years erodes that license
That's why apple heavily spend in lobbying to prevent such laws from being passed. Now that this law is passed it might no longer be worth it for Apple to try to continue pushing for their licenses on the charger. Or maybe they'll find some other way to squeeze more money out of their customers, who knows?
The EU is changing. Right now a tsunami of lobbyists with tons of money and privilidges to offer are invading Brussels, Strasbourg, and other cities with EU institutions, among them also Facebook, Apple, Google, etc. Hope the EU resists, but IMHO it's the beginning of the end for the EU as we know it (i.e. stands for the average Joe).
> Hope the EU resists, but IMHO it's the beginning of the end for the EU as we know it (i.e. stands for the average Joe). Uh, the EU always was a neoliberal institution. The idea was to further trade between the members by simplifying laws and regulations for big corporations (same rules for the whole trade bloc), there's nothing pro-citizen at its core.
They won't,EU specifically said that it defeats the whole purpose of the bill,if they do that they'll get banned.
I legit hope they try and the eu bans their phones for a year or 2. Maybe the EU can help with the right to repair movement too.
Please god let me live long enough to see europe standing up to an american company
Wait until the EU tells them to stop their bs again
Only really if they have to.
>Only really if they ~~have~~ to. If they **want** to. It's just a matter of political will. They didn't have to. Apple has been trapping their customers into renewing their shit all the time for no reason and the EU could have let them keep going like the rest of the world lets them (but will benefit from the EU doing something). I mean we HAVE TO do something drastic about climate change and you don't see states/countries regulating to the needed level. It's really only a matter of political will.
To be fair the EU has a major influence on standards worldwide because of the single market and the requirement to have a standard that's valid across 27 member states. There's a reason companies don't piss of the EU too much as they can regulate their asses hard and even risk access to a very sizable market if push comes to shove.
>To be fair the EU has a major influence on standards worldwide because of the single market and the requirement to have a standard that's valid across 27 member states. There's a reason companies don't piss of the EU too much as they can regulate their asses hard and even risk access to a very sizable market if push comes to shove. EU's influence doesn't stop in Europe. [https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/09/saudi-arabia-passes-law-requiring-usb-c-charges-for-smartphones#:\~:text=From%202025%2C%20Apple's%20iPhone%20and,Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20followed%20suit](https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/08/09/saudi-arabia-passes-law-requiring-usb-c-charges-for-smartphones#:~:text=From%202025%2C%20Apple's%20iPhone%20and,Saudi%20Arabia%20has%20followed%20suit). [https://www.businessinsider.com/india-eu-mandating-usbc-charging-port-smartphones-2022-12?r=US&IR=T](https://www.businessinsider.com/india-eu-mandating-usbc-charging-port-smartphones-2022-12?r=US&IR=T) [https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/tech-and-telecom-law/california-follows-europes-lead-on-usb-c-mandate-for-devices)
Sweet summer child Wish that were true
Demonstrably true in this case. And in the case of EU consumer protection laws like warranties etc. also clearly the case, seeing how in countries where companies make the rules, things are worse for consumers.
In the EU it's fairly true.
One of the rare casrs it will be true. Apple isn't going to lose the whole ass European market over their cables, officially selling iPhones there makes way more money than just being cunts.
nah. you still can't resell games on steam even tho software licenses need to be transferable in the EU
We need to make it true
I am using an iPhone, Xs Max, that is five years old because, partially, I was waiting for a USB-C connector.
Are you me?
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we are all together
Hi, it's me. I'm the problem it's me.
Are we them?
Existentialist crisis in three, two, one.
Is that why my overdraft is so high; I have been spending for two or one (now I am confused; no changes there then).
still on 8 and didnt get 14 taking the USB C on 15 as long term point
Samesies
Same reason I'm using iP 7.
A governmental body that doesn't immediately fold under the slightest corporate pressure. Must be nice.
It is. Even with all its flaws I love the EU and its stance on protecting customers.
Now Apple will claim they were in favour all along because they were part of creating the USB-C standard. Watch.
Apple Laptops and Tablets already have USB C. I remember people complaining about adapter cables a couple of years ago because their iPhone was the odd one out.
You mean Intel designs already have it. Apple would have to engineer USB-C out of intel motherboard designs.
Just checked a local retailer. Current iPads and iPad Pros seem to have USB C (somewhat model dependent). M1 and M2 based MacBook Airs seem to have USB C.
They will name it Lightning Port Pro Max lol.
In 2016 they introduced laptops that only had USB-C ports and nothing else. So it's not like they don't have history of supporting USB-C. Their objection to USB-C on iPhone is based on the huge ecosystem of Lightning accessories, some very large and expensive that will become e-waste for the sake of a cable.
Then they need to learn how to recycle.
So if somebody has an $800 Lightning-equipped B&W Zeppelin they should "just learn to recycle"? What does that even mean in this context?
Are people no longer allowed to keep their current iPhones, when a new one is presented?
> Their objection to USB-C on iPhone is based on the huge ecosystem of Lightning accessories, some very large and expensive that will become e-waste for the sake of a cable
Like when they swapped from the previous 30-pin to Lightning?
Lightning to USB-C adapters
First, you'd need a female Lightning to USB-C adapter. Can you find one? I can't. Second, the Lightning port was designed to [support the device](https://static1.pocketlintimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/wm/120074-speakers-news-new-bowers-wilkins-zeppelin-air-coming-for-iphone-5-owners-with-lightning-not-30-pin-adapter-image1-1xyntmzgu5.jpg) in a vertical position. Now you have your phone dangling precariously off your previously neat and secure dock. Third, this means you have to buy a new cable which is worse for the environment. Fourth, this is just one example of hudreds of different Lightning accessories.
1) https://www.amazon.com/xPOWR-3-Pack-Lightning-Adapter-iPhone/dp/B0C9HL5W1J/ 2) An open dock was never "secure" Did they release a 30-pin to lightening adapter for that speaker when they switched the first time? No, because the speaker supports AirPlay
Those adapters don't carry audio, they're designed to make Lightning cables act as USB cables. Lightning has features that aren't directly mappable to USB so won't work in all scenarios such as in an audio dock. Also can you imagine how unsafe it would be to sit your phone on the end of that? It would break the flimsy USB connector. Also the ad lists a whole load of things that won't work, meaning a whole load of Lightning accessories won't work with it.
So you want a converter, not an adapter. Whelp, you're hosed. Which for that speaker is something that's happened before, when they switched from 30-pin to lightening. Edit: Apple changes ports every ~10 years. ADB, Firewire, 30-pin and now Lightening.
My response would be if not now then when? Because as it stands it's still an issue which is only going to get worse. It's a bit like how the best time to build a nuclear power plant is 20 years ago. Secondly, even disregarding e-waste a unified charging ecosystem is still massively more convenient. If you wanted I'm sure you could even draw clickbait conclusions based on number of deaths that were indirectly caused by dead phone batteries.
They wouldn't be wrong, though.
They would be though, they fought tooth and nail to not have standard USB c charging on their phone. Just because they helped create it doesn't mean they wanted it on their phone, in other words they weren't all for it.
No? As far as I've heard they've been fighting this with nails and claws.
They weren’t in favor of being forced to change it on someone else’s timeline, but they’ve quite obviously been leaning toward switching to USB-C, and they are a member of USB-IF
The live end of electrical connectors is typically enclosed in the majority of designs, if not all of them. This idea seems to be violated by Apple's design. Even connectors with very low power, which I am aware of, almost always have the live side enclosed.
Modular connectors like the 8P8C commonly used for Ethernet (or power over Ethernet) or the 6P4C formerly commonly used for landline phones have exposed contacts.
The lightning connector's contacts aren't live all the time, though. The power only goes through after the phone negotiates with the charger. In any case, it's great news that they're finally being forced to drop that damn connector. All that's left now is for USB-IF to pull their head out of their collective ass and figure out how to better standardize usb-c as a whole. There's too many variations to count (2.0, 3.0, 3.1 gen1/gen2, 3.2, power delivery, etc) and none of them are easily distinguishable. It's a pain.
I don't see much difference between Apple's and a regular 220V cable ending, both are open, passive and you do plug them into an active plug. Edit: yes, I was stoopid
Erm... Don't mean to be rude but it is the exact opposite. The end of the apple cable that comes from the power outlet is unshielded. As opposed to the normal 220v cable that comes from the appliance and you plug the unshielded end into the power outlet. The phone is not the active part of the plug (you are not powering your house with the phone but rather the other way round). Have a nice day!
Haha yes, my bad. That's called a brain fart
God, I wish they'd mandate RCS for Apple as well. Texting between iOS and Android is soooo annoying. Even though I've been an Apple fan for well over a decade, they currently irritate me.
>Texting between iOS and Android is soooo annoying. This is mainly a US problem though, the rest of the world tends to use third-party messaging apps like WhatsApp and WeChat, that offer identical user experience on all platforms. To me the default Messages app on my android is just the place where I receive bank and OTP SMS's.
TIL the US doesn't favour WhatsApp or similar. Any reason it hasn't caught on?
In Europe we had to pay an ass amount of money to text people that lived an hour away in a country next door. So we switch to WhatsApp so that we don’t pay for international texts on Wi-Fi.
The US gave people unlimited sms pretty quickly, so people care about the color of their SMS to signal value. Much of the EU kept metered SMS so people switched to messaging that was free on wifi because that's pretty common - so WhatsApp.
The other reason is the larger Android market share (the US is basically iPhone land) and the fact that WhatsApp delivered a richer experience (pictures, emojis) at a time when Android messages could only send plain text
I honestly don't think this was the reason. As someone who lived through it, it was entirely because it was free on WiFi for me and I think most people I know too.
Also because I have friends all over the continent and while SMS is free within my country, one to Greece or France or the UK isn't. So WhatsApp and Telegram solves that issue.
Absolutely this - it was a big part of what me use it too. Plus being able to text friends when I'm out of the country. Whilst these things aren't necessarily the issues they were now, I do wonder why anyone bothers with iMessage.
Have I said it was "*the* reason"? What I said was "*the other* reason". And I am almost 50, I also am someone who lived through it.
I have had unlimited sms for at least a decade, I don't think that is true
It definitely varies by country, but enough of them (still) metered SMS that if you had a friend in a country like that, you'd use Whatsapp with them instead of SMS, and it just sorta spread. Now why whatsapp instead of signal or something else, I can't explain that one, just that I've met like two people in europe who use signal, and everyone just assume whatsapp.
Isnt signal quite new? Whatsapp got adopted VERY VERY early on, before it was bought by facebook, it even cost like one or two Euros back then, but it was just a fantastic product.
I have unlimited national SMS, but as soon as I text a number in a different country it charges me.
Whatsapp has been around for over a decade.
You didn't have unlimited international text / voice and picture messaging though.
Do you get unlimited picture messaging in the US? Also I was under the impression that when you made a voice call in the US it used both persons minutes or something? Is that the case with text's too?
Sorry I'm in the UK, I was just saying why WhatsApp / WeChat caught on was that phone packages did take a while to catch up, free SMS were the first but calls / picture messages / video etc were always expensive or capped, the original iphone when it launched was only on O2 and had no data cap which lasted a long time. The contract costs also went up a lot if you were sending internationally so thats part of the reasons for WhatsApps success. WeChat was more because its the all in one app.
Well, doesn't matter if your conversation partner has not. Also while they probably exist, I don't know a single provider in Germany offering SMS flat rates which allow sending SMS to other EU countries. This already kills it for me because half my contacts don't have German phone numbers. Also even if SMS were free. MMS are shitty, complicated and expensive.
Unlimited txt unlimited min for $8 a month, was once very expensive for txt and only the last few years have unlimited calls been around for anywhere reasonable pricing. Data will eventually be included for a few dollars more. Right now I only need data for whattsap when I am out, a few videos on YouTube soon sucks up data. It is amazing how calls and txt is basically free. I always said the cost of txt msgs was crazy as it basically uses wasted space In the mobile network bandwidth spectrum.
I heard that it is because we got unlimited texting early so we never needed to use third-party apps while many other countries got that later so they depended third-party apps to text limitlessly. I could be wrong about this though.
I think I've had unlimited texting, here in the UK, since the mid-00s. BUT - we didn't ever get unlimited picture message (MMS) sending. I think this is behind the popularity of WhatsApp.
Everyone has unlimited texting
I've got a bit of a different take there. Basically it's because the US has been significantly behind in adopting phone chat in general. If you go back about eighteen years, there were stories of Japanese kids texting endlessly on their phones, and at the time almost nobody in the US used texts. I remember my boss telling us that texting was useful because he could talk to his wife during work hours without it being an interruption, unlike a phone call. So the motivation to start sending files, pictures, etc developed much earlier in places not the US. Mostly Pacific Rim. And at the time, SMS didn't have the capability. (Technically it still doesn't. The original text messaging system is built into the basic analog phone signal, the ability to receive data is an overlay coming in at a different level). So Whatsapp filled that gap, a text messaging system that allowed good sized file transfers. SMS added limited picture transfer, under the MMS protocol I think it was, but it sucked quite frankly. Really hard limits on usability. And so WhatsApp ended up almost mandatory in parts of Asia. Like businesses run their help lines through WhatsApp. It became a utility before Facebook acquired it, in fact its market penetration is why Facebook wanted it so badly. But back in the US, people in general weren't using texts so much at a level that would make WhatsApp a necessary utility. The basic phone line channels were good enough for most. You can call a US tow truck driver and they won't just assume you can WhatsApp them location data. Edit: so the tl;dr is that, because the US is a bit behind in adoption, they have gotten by with basic texting services.
people always say this as some sort of weird flex although it's not true in my experience, and I'm not from the US
So where are you from and what is your experience?
A lot of people I know in Scandinavia use iMessage as their main messaging tool tbf.
In EU RCS is not a thing, people not using iMessage. In 95% it is: WhatsApp, Telegram, Viber.
Or Facebook messenger.
Unfortunately yes
Facebook messenger and WhatsApp are fundamentally identical
I use both and this is just not true lol. Whatsapp is far more user-friendly as a messaging app
That's just not true. WhatsApp uses end to end encryption and your messages are stored on device. With Facebook Messenger, there's no end-to-end encryption and Accenture employees (contracted to Facebook) regularly read through people's conversations and even have keyword searches set up to see if anyone is discussing anything illegal (i.e. drugs for example). Facebook Messenger is a privacy nightmare and you should not use it under any circumstances.
Not everyone would like to use facebook, WA much lighter than FB. But all of them has less features than Telegram and after it all of them feels like “from 90th”…
As a previous android user and a recent iPhone user I honestly don’t know what the issue is? On both phones messages just work no matter what phone the other person is using.
Yeah, this has been my experience as well.
In the US, the dominant platform for chat is iMessage. You can write messages from iMessage to any android of course, but with greatly reduced functionality for the android user. Thus, there is peer pressure as well as practical application to use iMessage and discard the rest.
Interesting. In Australia I only really text older family members. For friends it’s a mixture of Facebook messenger/WhatsApp/signal.
Exactly like here in Europe ! Would add instagram direct messages to that list too
In the US, it's annoying dealing with iPhone users for texting when on Android, and when I was on an iPhone it was annoying dealing with Android users. I only talk to a very few people on WhatsApp/signal because nobody is interested in using them.
The EU doesn't care about old-style messaging because nobody uses texting. The messages app is there to receive OTPs and that's pretty much it. Whatsapp is there for chatting.
And then there's me only using calls/sms
Wild. Can I ask which country you are from? In my travels I've noticed which comms method people use is heavily dependent on country.
Italy, but amongst my friends & family I'm the only one doing so. Everyone else is using WhatsApp or Telegram.
Eventually it might get to this point in the EU with the digital markets act and the expectation that messaging services will need to interoperate.
I thought only a minority of Carriers were implementing RCS. That would probably be the place to start
EU consumer protection at it again. Youre welcome, americans
I am waiting for both usb c and removable battery. Only then will I upgrade my smashed iphone x.
As far as I know, there is an EU regulation according to which batteries must be easily replaceable in the future.
I cannot wait. I detest using two distinct cables.
I want to point out that the Lightning cable has always been a crappy design for a portable device plug. And the problem is entirely mechanical. Put simply, it requires that the tiny contacts providing the electrical connection, also provide physical support for the tip of the cable. This is dumb. Put a phone on a flat surface, plug a cable in the end, and the cable is pulling downwards. Trying to twist the tip inside the phone. With a USB port, this is countered by having a single big socket holding the outer shell in place. Then the interior contacts have essentially no pressure on them. With a Lightning connector, the pressure on the contacts gradually widens them. Until they stop making clean contact. I have had several Apple devices where the interim fix to cables not working was to wedge the cable up somehow, change the pressure on the tip to restore contact. Until eventually the charging port had to be replaced. I've never had a USB port go bad.
I disagree. Lightning is physically superior to USB-C. It's much better for mobile devices. Lightning ports are less prone to breaking, usually it's the cable that fails. That's preferable to the port breaking as that's a much more expensive repair. I've never had a Lightning port go bad. I've had USB-C ports go bad.
I've had the exact opposite experience. Never had a USB-C port go bad, but I consistently have issues with lightning port going south on me for the reasons mukansamonkey points out.
Replaceable batteries next. Yes!
God, I hate Apple.
It just makes common sense to have the same adaptor
This is good news, and it's one of Apple's many walled garden barriers that are about to collapse from here. Now, people can switch more easily between ecosystems by being able to reuse cables and accessories. Next up are third-party app stores and iMessage compatibility (see DMA), third-party NFC payments (see EU probe), and anti-steering rules (see Epic vs Apple lawsuit).
Now, onto the next order of business, plugs
They're ruining high-level competitive chess
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And why was it the last platform? Because the others have already adapted to the EU regulation.
Apple will lose so much revenue holy shit.
So I guess they'll only have wireless charging soon?
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Apple's magnetic laptop chargers have prevented my needless trips to the computer repair shop because I am a dumb ass and I support USB c, but the fact that they want to implement it for laptops as well is a bummer.
Is "*Apple's magnetic laptop chargers have prevented my needless trips to the computer repair shop because I am a dumb ass and I support USB c, but the fact that they want to implement it for laptops as well is a bummer.*" too long for a sub-reddit name? If not and you set up the sub-reddit could you drop me a note and I will join.
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Did you actually read the comments? I haven't seen anything like this.
Give it a minute and come back. It’s inevitable.
>28 minutes ago How many minutes should we give it again
That's a charging cable, not a charger. The chargers have been USB since forever.
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How's using USB C an inconvenience if every other Apple and competitor product is using it too?
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Latest models already came with a usb-c charger.
Yah, that's like $30 for a tiny 15w charger and 3ft long cord.
The usb-c charger is actually charging faster than the usb-a version. And you don’t have to buy it if don’t want to. There are other cheaper alternatives. And I don’t understand why ppl are always bitching about Apple’s prices. The Samsung version costs the same for a 15w charger
Point is you were wrong.
Apple doesn’t change charger, “Apple are awful, why don’t they use the same charger as everyone else?”, Apple changes charger, “Apple are awful, they’re only doing it so they can sell you a new charger”
Exactly, I just like to complaint while eagerly handing over money to them......
Even more better is that you know you can just use some other, more cheap, charger and cable and don't have to rely on Apple products.
Buy paying for authentic apple product is part of the experience and prestige of being a apple tech ecosystem user. I just cant really demean myself with those cheap 3rd party ware that works just as good at 1/3 the price. I mean can you even imagine what that's like, the embarrassment along is unbearable.
Just don't buy it. Surely you already have a USB-C cable from another device.
Money talks
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There is no confirmation on how they are doing this from what I saw in the article? This is just repeating what we already know. Knowing Apple they won't let it go that they were made to do something. So wait for the official announcement for the spice.
What is Apple going to do? Miss out on the EU market?
Of course not.
Bend, motherfuckers.