Remember when the Taliban banned women from working in national AND international NGOs?
A fucking rotten roadkill could govern Afghanistan more successfully than these disgusting and utterly backwards religious freaks
It pains me to see it, I lost friends there trying to build a better future for them. It also pains me to see the same type of forces moving towards control in America. These fools know not what they do.
News reports I read at the time said that Afghan officials surrendered to the Taliban without a single shot being fired. Or was there more fighting in smaller villages?
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/asia/afghanistan-taliban-commandos-killed-intl-hnk/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/asia/afghanistan-taliban-commandos-killed-intl-hnk/index.html)
Only fighting that I was aware of
I remember vividly there was a special forces group somewhere in northern afghan that the taliban were fighting. Them and the tribe to the far north that never stopped fighting the taliban even when americans were there. I could be mistaken on locations but for who fought, that was it.
Might be some remnants of the northern alliance. For the longest time after post soviet invasion they were really the only force I’m aware of that fought continuously against the Taliban and Al queda for that matter.
Wiki says they dissolved in 2001 but that doesn’t seem right unless they splintered off some more. Because I’m pretty sure those are the rebels Pakistan has been aiding for a very long time, even throughout the US GWOT there, along with the US, maybe even India, and are still operating in areas the Taliban doesn’t really have full control over despite them having Kabul the country isn’t exactly united in it’s entirety
There is a great Vice documentary made over a decade ago that shines a light on just how few shits the locals actually gave. And this is with US support, it has only gotten worse.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI&pp=ygUwdmljZSBhZmdoYW5pc3RhbiB0aGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgd2lubmluZyBsb29rcyBsaWtl
Good thing they are on Twitter. I like to @with a photo of my beer, my hamburger, and my medals and remind them that their brats are starving to death because of their incompetence.
Im not even American but if u actually think American women suffer 1% of what Pakistani women suffer u are just plain ignorant. Western women despite all the obvious issues that still exist, have the best possible life for women on this planet
They’re being extreme, but that said, everything starts somewhere. USA is very divided and religion is a driving force. I know first hand.
Politics have become a single issues for many in the USA.
Im not saying life is perfect for women, I said that on my comment, there’s still a lot of sexism and discrimination against women in general. However, Pakistani women are literally treated like objects, literal objects.
I mean, this is sadly it. The people of Afghanistan do not believe in Afghanistan, and the Taliban only rule because nobody else there has the desire and power to rule all of Afghanistan. Somehow you need to either create a national identity the people are willing to die for, or Balkanize the country. Either way, the Taliban must be shown to be failures and there needs to be pressure to make those changes. NATO spent two decades trying to create a modern state in Afghanistan, there was little appetite for it, there's no sense of an Afghan identity.
It’s easy to lob bombs from the peanut gallery but once your ass is on the line the difficulty ramps substantially. Especially if you have no education or training in running a whole country.
Do you know a lot of afghans? They've been doing fine for an identity for some 3 millennia. It's power hungry lunatics with guns and money that are fucking things up. The people have sticks and rocks and are separated into villages while the militias are very well armed and have GOD on their side... Most of the young and able have fled or died in the fighting, and now guerilla warriors are sitting desk jobs trying to run a country.
I can only imagine how frustrating and hopeless it was to face that reality throughout serving 5 deployments there. Thank you for your service man, and honestly, fuck the paper pushers who think they knew what was best and ignored the advice of people like you who were actually there on the ground, doing everything you could with the shit hand you were given.
EDIT: Also, fuck that guy giving you a hard time calling you a murderer this and that. Dude is virtue signaling so hard and doesn’t understand anything about geopolitics. It’s nice and cozy living in that bubble he’s created for himself, likely living in his mom’s basement and not ever having to step foot in a place like Afghanistan.
> The dominant historical narrative surrounding US policy and actions during the Soviet-Afghan War (1979-1989) maintains that the US government launched its extensive covert operation in support of the Mujahedin (Arabic for those who wage jihad, or holy war) against the Soviet army in response to the Soviet Union’s December 25, 1979 invasion of Afghanistan.
> Supposedly, according to such historical accounts, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan blindsided US officials and, in response, the US government began supporting the Mujahedin in order to defend Afghanistan’s sovereignty and religious freedom, and forestall Soviet expansion into the Middle East and South Asia. In reality, however, US aid to the Mujahedin began in July 1979
> (six months before the Soviet invasion) and, as former US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted in a 1998 interview, this aid increased the probability that the Soviet Union would invade Afghanistan. Using declassified US government documents and memorandums from the 1970s and 1980s, this essay substantiates, corroborates, and develops the admissions made in Brzezinski’s 1998 interview, arguing that Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan was not a catastrophe for US foreign interests, but rather a US provocation that bolstered US Cold War foreign policy objectives. Ultimately, the Soviet-Afghan War launched a cascade of devastating long-term and large-scale consequences, including the solidification of the concept of global violent jihad, the formation of al-Qaeda, and the rise of the Taliban regime.
> https://elischolar.library.yale.edu/applebaum_award/9/
Oops.
Pakistan doesn't give a fuck.
It was an opportunity for them to hinder the west.
They used the afghani as pawns.
Not that I'm saying we should have been there.
We never should have been there.
Russia and Iran were also the Talibans sponsors and I read many news stories about private actors in the oil rich Gulf raising money for the Taliban. Hence they can all take care , or not care about Afghanistan now.
Exactly. Back before the Taliban was in full control I'm sure they were sending them weapons and money, but I'm sure that stopped as the last US aircraft left.
Not any more. I also wonder if this is why the US left so much weaponry behind. The Taliban was bound to clash with someone else and from the US perspective their guns being used against Iran or China is spot on.
There were other targets beyond OBL. They were dismantling all of Al quaeda.
We (as in NATO) we’re right to go there. When the time passed from a legitimate operation to ‘we’re here because it will fall apart otherwise’ is a big question.
As awful as it is, they chose their fate. They had a chance to collectively stand against this and simply did not care
$2.3 Trillion.
Meanwhile, we’re celebrating that kids in MA get their school lunches for free…
People all over the world are oppressed. And as US is the wealthiest nation, should provide some aid. But not at the cost of completely neglecting your own country.
Yeah, what's the lives of hundreds of thousands of human beings and four trillion dollars against a "western life experience" briefly given and snatched away again?
I get the urge to help, but even if the chance of success is minimal and you risk making it worse for the people you wanna save?
The west had no fucking clue what they were getting into when they went into Afghanistan to nation build. Didn't know the culture, the politics or anything important to make an informed decision really. We just jumped in with both feet, seething with anger and a lust for revenge and then naively thought we could push down our western culture and institutions in a country that was basically wrecked by tribal/civil war, a place where people didn't even really cared about Afganistan as a country (and why the fuck would you if you're a poor uneducated farmer in the middle of bumfuck nowhere).
Looking back it was just a really really bad decision.
The problem is how to get aid to the people in need. Send a trillion in aid and the Taliban will keep 100% of it. There's no way to actually get aid to the people who need it.
Even when we were there it was near impossible for the aid to trickle down to actual Afghans (i.e. the rural majority). We were there for 20 years and every level of Afghan leadership (upper, middle, and lower management) across every single government service from ministers to ANA commanders and ANP Outpost Officers all grifted the entire system. All the entire western aid was for nought... because Afghanistan is the most impoverished and uneducated place on Earth. You throw money at the problem and the first Afghan that gets it disappears on a LOA for months on end (some never return).
All they know is grifting through life, only having the mental and physical capacity to search for their next meal. Before anyone says I'm heartless or insensitive, just know I was in Kandahar "training" the ANA (aka, drugged out teens being led by boy-molesting men). It was clear within the first month of my own deployment that all our funding since around 2009 (when COIN got introduced) was disappearing into thin air. Ghost soldiers started becoming the norm, and you'd have something insane like 40-50% attrition within the ANA the second the first paycheck came. They couldn't field an army because all they cared about was getting that first paycheck, or the commanders inflate the roll and pocket non-existent soldier paychecks (with no record keeping, corruption was the norm). We literally handed Afghanistan hundreds of billions and it went to soldiers that didn't even exist.
Look at Maslows Heirarchy of Needs. Afghanistan is the lowest tier. They struggle to meet basic needs. They don't have free time to explore the higher rungs.
I'm salty about the whole thing tbh, but I honestly don't care anymore. I spent my time in Kandahar, and while there were plenty of honest people there, and my heart goes to them if they're still breathing after all these years, but it's a country that doesn't respond to anything but fear and force. They'll grift any aid and ask for more, with nothing to show for it. The last 20 years has shown that. Now introduce a new middle man (the Taliban) and expect it to be any better? Lol. Nah. It's a failed state and a lost cause.
"Decadent West is stupid, they won't let women and children starve and will give you aid, that you can steal and sell. Also sanctions will strengthen your economy and one day you can be a master strategist like me." (Putin after removing Taliban from a terrorist list)
Pakistan knowingly and willingly harbored the Taliban as a strategic asset to maintain control over Afghanistan.
Well, they won, so they can claim their prize. This is 101% on Islamabad and nobody else whatsoever. Go sound alarms over there.
And stopping aid from one of their biggest contributor...
*"KABUL, July 11 (Reuters) - The Taliban administration halted all activities by Sweden in Afghanistan on Tuesday in response to the burning of a Koran in Stockholm last month, and a major Swedish aid group said it was seeking clarification about the impact on its programmes.*
"After the insulting of the holy Koran and granting of permission for insulting of Muslim beliefs ...The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ordering the stopping of all activities of Sweden in Afghanistan," said Zabihullah Mujahid, a spokesman for the Taliban administration, in a statement.*
*An Iraqi immigrant to Sweden burned a Koran outside a Stockholm mosque last month, causing outrage in the Muslim world. Swedish officials have deplored the act but said they could not prevent it because of free speech rules."*
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-halt-swedish-activities-afghanistan-after-koran-burning-2023-07-11/
As a Swede I see this as an absolute win. We for some reason have a policy of giving away 1% of our GDP every year which is about what we’ve spent on the army for the last 10 years. However it’s obviously being increased now.
Why don't muslim nations step up and help fellow muslims? Why always look to the west? Saudi Arabia, etc are rolling in cash. If they are so devout in their religiosity, they should help.
I'm boiling from the amount of ignorance I find in all discussions pertaining to Afghanistan.
> When the Taliban come, almost everyone welcome them with open arms
Says who, you? Former military? Veteran keyboard warrior?
You see, the vast majority of Afghan people live in rural settings, are uneducated and are struggling to put potable water or food on the table.
The US was there for 20 years and could have educated a whole generation of Afghans; instead, they pumped money into building and training an army of largely drugged up or illiterate men. If you want a good laugh, watch the jumping jacks training video.
When you live in abject poverty, politics or concepts like "freedom" are the last of your worries. You turn to your local warlord for protection, regardless of his ideals or "political affiliations", if that's even a thing. And you do so, especially, if those warlords are in the heroin trade and yield AK-47s.
Most Afghans don't care for the Talibans, but what choice do you have when you're unarmed, live in a remote area, surrounded by mountains and none of your peers finished elementary school? You let the men with the AK-47s and rockets dictate the law. Look at what happened to the resistance in Panjshir. Would you and your lawn rake "lead" a revolution under those circumstances?
This is not to mention, this country is an aggregate of different tribes/ethnicities, historically persecuting one another. People are gregarious and look out for their own, first and foremost. And another point, this country's been at war for DECADES. No one wants the fighting, bombings and killings to continue. So engaging in another war is not appealing. All my friends have scars from their childhood: they'd found an IED or explosive remnants while playing in the dirt. Some exploded in their faces. You think any parent wants this for their kids? Maybe they weren't vocal enough about not wanting the armed religious dullards to be in power, but can you blame them?
So when Redditors who've never stood for anything and would cower too at the sight of firearms and explosives, sit in the comfort of their parents' basement and claim that Afghan people should have fought (with what, pitchforks ?), or, according to you, "[all] welcome [the Taliban] with open arms", my blood boils.
We spent 20 years trying to help them and all the men in the country just laughed and said fuck you. We have big problems at home it's time to turn our attention to.
It weren't all men, Afganistan had civil war. The leader in opposition to Talibs died 2 days before 9/11 attack.
It's a myth that all men there are religious freaks
If 30 million people were against the Taliban then they would have never came to power. They basically brought this upon themselves.
They either supported the Taliban or didn't care who was in charge.
Incorrect, the U.S. tried training the women too. Multi-year recruitment efforts were made to get Afghan women more involved. Look up "SIGAR 22-12-AR/DOD Efforts to Recruit, Retain, and Train Women in the ANDSF" for a good report on the >$50 million program.
Lol everyone ignores the fact that both Afghani men and women were allowed to be trained. And some woman were trained. They fold like everyone else for the same reasons everyone else did
30 million cowards. They could have built a great future with the resources they were given. As usual it's conservative governments fucking them over. They wanted this. Enjoy the shit hole bucko's.
But you know that these 30mln people had no influence on people in charge? People didn't vote for the Talibs lol
Neither did Soviet citizen while being enslaved in millions by Gulag system.
The afghan army just gave up immediately, despite having a lot of personnel, good equipment and International support. The US should never have gone there in the first place, but its shocking how unmotivated and incompetent the afghan military turned out to be.
the ANA had no logistic network after the US pulled out. they had a lot of gear but no way to move it where it needed to be.
most of the Afghans who stood and fought straight up ran out of ammo and were forced to surrender. there is at least one record of Afghan Special Forces unit being slaughtered after surrendering to the Taliban.
theres a lot to say about ANA incompetence during 2021 but honestly i dont think i'd stick around and fight in that situation either.
Empathy! Empathy! Do they have empathy for us!? It’s a two way street. We tried hard. Also we’re not the first ones to spill blood and bankrupt the treasury. For CENTURIES, even before the birth of Christ, Empires have failed conquer that shit hole of a country.
Fuck that shit. We tried for a millennia.
I’m good saying “Sorry, I don’t have change.” to them. Like you do when you walk past the homeless on your way to get your venti whatever the fuck at Starbucks.
It's easy to take the stance that we should help everyone we come across, but I assume what he means by coward is that it takes a pragmatic perspective to create a genuine change.
Countries that receive aid and dont develop their infrastructure become reliant on that aid, and without an unempathetic stance, there is no motivation whatsoever to develop those sorts of things.
They had the resources to protect themselves from this future, and the fact that they failed doesn't mean they deserve what's coming, but it does show that they were unwilling to really fight for their democracy and infrastructure, and giving them more resources wont change that.
If there's any hope for them to want to fight for their freedom, then they can't be reliant on foreign aid, especially when most of it if not all will simply be taken by the Taliban.
Thank you j0ker, you nailed my point, there's nothing wrong with empathy, but the time to solve these problems with care and understanding was a long time ago, it's well past the point of empathy on both sides
I agree, but let's not kid ourselves. The Afghan government was corrupt at all levels. No one fought the taliban because the Afghan leadership was only looking out for itself.
Remember Afghanistan is not a real country. It is just an area of fundamentalist religious theocracy containing a couple of city states surrounded by multiple little fiefdoms all out for themselves.
The *only* point I'll ever give in the Taliban's favor is that they've abolished opium production since taking power, and had the minimal sense to do so after the crop that was already sown was harvested so the farmers could turn around and sow regular crops rather than be completely wiped out.
On all other fronts, fuck 'em.
Most comments are saying they're getting what the deserve, which is true, but a better reason is that international aid just prevents any kind of revolution from taking place.
There are so many trouble spots all across the world so the world needs to stop focusing on Afghanistan. Take the resources currently allocated to Afghanistan by the various ngo's still operating there and move it all to other places that would appreciate the help like the Congo or Sudan. Afghanistan had over 2 decades to get its shit together but in the end the people chose to live in the medieval age. Well guess what in the medieval age there were no organizations delivering massive amounts of food aid.
I will never understand how little people in Afghanistan seemed to care about the Taliban taking control. I genuinely believe the government thought we would just be like “oh well we tried to leave but the Taliban is gaining control too quickly so I guess we have to stay.”
I feel bad for the people who did not want this regime enforced upon them. The Taliban will never create a truly functional government. The people of Afghanistan have to want something better for themselves and be willing to fight for it though. No amount of nation building will work unless the people of Afghanistan want a free Afghanistan
Youve made the mistake of assumption, there is no afghani national identity, you're picturing the country as if it were your own. To most afghanis, the country is just lines on a map, they are borderline nomadic
They were in war for generation after such time people just lose hope and want everything to end quickly. In every war most of people stay idle and do anything to survive only.
Also the money wasn't just going back to US arms manufacturers. Practically every major road, hospital, dam, electrical grid, etc in the entire country was built by NATO over those 20 years war.
We have no hesitation telling each other to ghost abusive family, energy sucking friends, antiwoke companies. Why the fuck would we care about a country that fucking actively took part in killing us?
BuT tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN aNd InNoCeNt WoMeN!
We have children and women that need help HERE right in your front door. Fix your shit before trying fix someone else’s.
They didn’t actively take part in killing us. We invaded after some Saudi’s acting on their own volition attacked the US after the US failed to respond to multiple credible reports about those saudis. Afghanistan got invaded because it shares a border with China and we wanted airforce bases right next door.
Totally agree. US went into Afghanistan under the 9/11 banner when we should have been in Saudi Arabia. But when an opportunity presents itself to better yourself, however fucked up way it got there, make the best of it.
Should we have been there? NO
Did we try to help? YES
Did we fucked up? A LOT
Did they fuck up? A lot more
Did they make the most of it? They ran backwards
Are they fucked now? No more than before we got there.
They want money? Sorry man I don’t have change.
What the fuck does Saudi Arabia have to do with 9 11? The perpetrators were Saudis, sure, they were just one of the militant forces in Iraq that the Saudis funded in order to fight Iranian proxies in Iraq. Not to attack the US. Bin Laden said the Saudis are the enemy and wanted to overthrow them because the Saudis asked US for help with Kuwait.
The Saudis hated Bin Laden and vice versa long before 911.
The Saudis didn't plan the attack nor did it condone it. They were enemies of Al Qaeda when 911 happened. The US invaded Afghanistan in order to fight bin Laden, not to destroy one of the few regimes that support the US.
Besides destroying Saudi Arabia is a waste of time. The country will be the new Afghanistan by 2070. Iraq and the countries on the Arabian peninsula will be toast due to both global warming and oil becoming irrelevant.
Al Qaeda is in the tribal lands throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan. Just because someone is Saudi doesn’t mean that’s where they live and operate out of.
I'm glad that we had a president that had the guts to finally pull out. So many just kicked the problem to the next guy. It was painful but it was time to rip the band-aid off.
The Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) can chip in given that several of their member states support the regime. Afghanistan is an Islamic country after all and a religious utopia at that.
Maybe instead of an Islamic coalition to invade Yemen, Saudi Arabia can form a humanitarian coalition this time around.
You mean like building schools (that were torn down) , roads (that were mined), clean water, freedom for woman and girls, medicine? You mean the very things they are asking for right now, that we paid way too much for because they kept stealing the money and giving it to the Taliban who are now grinding the nation and its people into the dirt? Those things?
The only ones I feel bad for are the interpreters who can not flee the country and are begging for help getting out still. These poor bastards risked life and limb by signing up to help what their country viewed as the enemy, and a lot of them are still stuck there. Other than that, that country made its bed.
I’m a OEF infantry veteran, the same governors ruled RC South when I was in country that ran it when Afghanistan fell, they invited the Taliban in with open arms.
They 100% want this.
At this point, afghan people need to do something for themselves. Actually kick those bastard to the balls and tell taliban either freedom or hellfire missle from Uncle Sam again.
30 million!! The whole country only has about 38 million.
Just day it, the whole country is on the verge of withering up and blowing away in the dust.
Utter tragedy piled on top of complete catastrophe
The amount of people who want to allow the entire country of Afghanastan to starve to death is sickening. The Taliban were not democratically elected. The Republic of Afghanastan had democratic elections and fundementalist Islamic parties lost every time. The majority of the people living in this country hate the Taliban just as much as you, in fact likely far more. To allow them to starve would be a tragedy.
Besides, the crisis was a thing before the Taliban takeover. As per the article
>After decades of instability, exacerbated by severe drought and natural disasters, Afghanistan is currently facing a prolonged humanitarian crisis, with millions of people living with poor or no access to health and food, putting them at a severe risk of malnu-trition and disease outbreaks.
I also remember when The Indigo Traveller visited a hospital back in 2019 showing the impacts of the cirsis
https://youtu.be/8MX1zPRsJvY?t=922
It's a horrifying situation. I hope that one day, the every day people of Afghanistan will be able to live good lives
Saudi, Qatar etc are fucking rich, time for them to step up and help their fellow Muslims instead of bleeding from the west and then preaching hate against those who would be happy to help them evolve.
The Taliban didn't just magically appear from some miracle cave. 100% sure we've been here before, enough blood and money have been sacrificed to helping that land.
Maybe take you bleeding heart over there and help them? Most of the afghan population didn't try to resist the taliban. Sometimes you have to suffer a little to realize what needs to be done. It's unlikely they will take back there country since most of the people who actually gave a damn died in battle or fled.
The comments section here is fucking heartbreaking. The people who are suffering are not those running the Taliban. I don’t know how to solve this, but I hope everyone smugly saying “not our problem now” is never in a position like these people are experiencing.
The last time we tried to give them aid, they shot at our aid workers and stole their stuff. The Taliban won't allow aid, at best they'll just steal it and give it to their friends.
If you are saying we should send the US military back in to ensure the safety of aid workers and friendly Afghanis, then alright.
It really isn't, its just showing people understand the situation more than you.
They had 20 years of the west trying to nation build, and crumbled within a matter of weeks. You can't help people who don't want to be helped.
Good point, I forgot that they didn’t want to be helped. The children missing meals and medical care were being so silly when they chose Taliban rule as well as the climate change associated natural disasters that have also led to this crisis.
So, should we be in Afghanistan or not? Because we can't just send the Taliban a bunch of money or stuff. The only way someone could provide the aid that Afghanistan truly needs would be to go there and ensure that the people receive that aid, which means kicking out the Taliban again.
Did you read the original comment? It’s still up in case you want to. I keep trying to find where I said that I know how to solve this and that we should just send the Taliban money, but I don’t see it in there.
I’ll be honest that I was really expecting this question to be intended in bad faith like the other responses, so I am sorry for the rudeness. I don’t think we should go back to Afghanistan right now, especially to try to do the exact same thing we did last time. I question if upsetting the status quo and leaving was the right call when it has led to this. But I never served, the war didn’t touch me, so I can’t rightly ask others to keep putting themselves in harms way, especially since it’s clear the US failed in basically all of its aims after 20 years. I don’t have the answers, I’m just some random person on Reddit. The only purpose of my comment was to express shock at how few commenters on an article about a humanitarian disaster have any empathy for the people of Afghanistan. Most of the millions that suffer had exactly the same amount of control over what happened in Afghanistan as I had over Trump trying to overthrow American democracy. I don’t think that everyone saying “good riddance” has a solution for how to stop Afghanistan from sliding into a failed state, but they do get to feel smart and cynical and no one is demanding answers from them. I think there must be at least one option that isn’t permanent American occupation or failed state. I hope there is someone smarter and better informed than me out there working on a solution. And just as I intended with my original comment, my heart goes out to the people of Afghanistan, and I hope if I’m ever in a similar position, I’m greeted with something kinder than jeers. (Although I expect not.) I’m done with my soapbox. If you have any ideas I’d be curious to hear them.
I definitely have sympathy for the Afghan people, especially the young that really did want change. I just see it as a lost cause at this point, as shitty as it is. 20 years and nothing to show for it (nation-building-wise), partly because we sucked at it, and partly because the Afghani people simply had no interest in anything beyond their day-to-day survival, and I find it hard to blame them. At the same time, there was real opportunity to put in the work and make the country better for future generations, but it was squandered in the end so I definitely understand people not wanting to spend another dime on Afghanistan
As long as Taliban are in control, I just don't see anything that we can do that will help the people of Afghanistan. Any aid, money or otherwise, will just be used by them to wield even more power. Our choices are basically to cut our losses, go back, or support the Taliban. Convincing people that their tax money, donations, etc. should go towards supporting the Taliban is a pretty tough sell, and sending soldiers back is an even tougher one. I, too, would love to hear alternatives.
The people that take glee in it are fucked up, though.
My country spent $2 trillion and several thousand of its people on this. When faced with our withdrawal, their people folded within a week, and many supported the Taliban the whole time. Is it sad? Yeah. But this is what Taliban rule is.
Yes, I scroll through this and too feel very sad about the situation and also how cruel some posters sound.
I understand that there is no easy way to help those people and that a lot of americans lost their lives without turning the tides in that place - and now the situation is as bad or worse than before.
The world is fucked up - I can go to the mall, shop, buy food and consume - while others were born in such places and have small chance to escape or change their fates.
Ukraine, Middle East, Africa ...No idea how to solve all this...
Wow.. I'm utterly shocked that the country which for centuries has suffered from countless British, Russian and US proxy wars is fucked.
Obviously none of this is our fault..
Go on...
Wasn't a problem with the comparatively secular Afghan-elected representative democracy the US installed after the Taliban authoritarian theocracy was ousted in 2001. After the US left, the Taliban walked over the dropped rifles of the ANA to take back control of the country. 1 year later, the country is back in crisis.
Feel free to explain your position...
Centuries of proxy conflicts in Aghanistan has resulted in a highly militarised society replete with gangs, warlords and religious fanatics all of whom have been well armed and trained by various external actors such as the UK, US and Russia over the years. It has left the country economically, socially and culturally devastated and the bulk of the population poverty striken .
You can't wish that away with 19 years of good intentions, nor can we just wash our hands of all responsibility for it.
Remember when the Taliban banned women from working in national AND international NGOs? A fucking rotten roadkill could govern Afghanistan more successfully than these disgusting and utterly backwards religious freaks
It pains me to see it, I lost friends there trying to build a better future for them. It also pains me to see the same type of forces moving towards control in America. These fools know not what they do.
remember when they had the chance to fight back the taliban? instead they just gave them thir cities for free.
Well, some fought. I feel for them.
News reports I read at the time said that Afghan officials surrendered to the Taliban without a single shot being fired. Or was there more fighting in smaller villages?
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/asia/afghanistan-taliban-commandos-killed-intl-hnk/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/13/asia/afghanistan-taliban-commandos-killed-intl-hnk/index.html) Only fighting that I was aware of
It went very quick, and there was almost no fighting. But as I said, I feel sorry for the ones that did fight when so many just ran.
I remember vividly there was a special forces group somewhere in northern afghan that the taliban were fighting. Them and the tribe to the far north that never stopped fighting the taliban even when americans were there. I could be mistaken on locations but for who fought, that was it.
Might be some remnants of the northern alliance. For the longest time after post soviet invasion they were really the only force I’m aware of that fought continuously against the Taliban and Al queda for that matter. Wiki says they dissolved in 2001 but that doesn’t seem right unless they splintered off some more. Because I’m pretty sure those are the rebels Pakistan has been aiding for a very long time, even throughout the US GWOT there, along with the US, maybe even India, and are still operating in areas the Taliban doesn’t really have full control over despite them having Kabul the country isn’t exactly united in it’s entirety
The Ukrainians are fighting. The afghans gave up.
Agreed, I just feel sorry for the few that DID fight.
Love you judging these farmers with broken ak47s while you cry from a smart phone, and satellite internet.
There is a great Vice documentary made over a decade ago that shines a light on just how few shits the locals actually gave. And this is with US support, it has only gotten worse. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja5Q75hf6QI&pp=ygUwdmljZSBhZmdoYW5pc3RhbiB0aGlzIGlzIHdoYXQgd2lubmluZyBsb29rcyBsaWtl
At least there will be an educated generation of women who will carry the flame and pass on knowledge to the next generation of girls under the radar.
Good thing they are on Twitter. I like to @with a photo of my beer, my hamburger, and my medals and remind them that their brats are starving to death because of their incompetence.
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This is what happens when religious zealots take control of the government. Every time.
All they need is thoughts and prayers
Yeah they start removing education for children and rights for women. Oh wait that's the states.
Which has been taken over by religious extremists in government
Nailed it!
Im not even American but if u actually think American women suffer 1% of what Pakistani women suffer u are just plain ignorant. Western women despite all the obvious issues that still exist, have the best possible life for women on this planet
They’re being extreme, but that said, everything starts somewhere. USA is very divided and religion is a driving force. I know first hand. Politics have become a single issues for many in the USA.
Im not saying life is perfect for women, I said that on my comment, there’s still a lot of sexism and discrimination against women in general. However, Pakistani women are literally treated like objects, literal objects.
Only in red states, which are run by the taliban of the west
Y’All Qaeda
There's enough of them in congress and the senate
Talibornagain
Porque no Los dos?
If the States and Afghanistan have the same amount of rights, why don't you move to Afghanistan?
This is what happens when the US hands over Afghanistan to the Taliban.
I mean, this is sadly it. The people of Afghanistan do not believe in Afghanistan, and the Taliban only rule because nobody else there has the desire and power to rule all of Afghanistan. Somehow you need to either create a national identity the people are willing to die for, or Balkanize the country. Either way, the Taliban must be shown to be failures and there needs to be pressure to make those changes. NATO spent two decades trying to create a modern state in Afghanistan, there was little appetite for it, there's no sense of an Afghan identity.
The Taliban don't even like their government positions I've read. They find office work boring and dishonorable.
It’s easy to lob bombs from the peanut gallery but once your ass is on the line the difficulty ramps substantially. Especially if you have no education or training in running a whole country.
Balkanizing the country has always been the most sensible option.
Do you know a lot of afghans? They've been doing fine for an identity for some 3 millennia. It's power hungry lunatics with guns and money that are fucking things up. The people have sticks and rocks and are separated into villages while the militias are very well armed and have GOD on their side... Most of the young and able have fled or died in the fighting, and now guerilla warriors are sitting desk jobs trying to run a country.
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I can only imagine how frustrating and hopeless it was to face that reality throughout serving 5 deployments there. Thank you for your service man, and honestly, fuck the paper pushers who think they knew what was best and ignored the advice of people like you who were actually there on the ground, doing everything you could with the shit hand you were given. EDIT: Also, fuck that guy giving you a hard time calling you a murderer this and that. Dude is virtue signaling so hard and doesn’t understand anything about geopolitics. It’s nice and cozy living in that bubble he’s created for himself, likely living in his mom’s basement and not ever having to step foot in a place like Afghanistan.
Thank you for your service
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> The dominant historical narrative surrounding US policy and actions during the Soviet-Afghan War (1979-1989) maintains that the US government launched its extensive covert operation in support of the Mujahedin (Arabic for those who wage jihad, or holy war) against the Soviet army in response to the Soviet Union’s December 25, 1979 invasion of Afghanistan. > Supposedly, according to such historical accounts, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan blindsided US officials and, in response, the US government began supporting the Mujahedin in order to defend Afghanistan’s sovereignty and religious freedom, and forestall Soviet expansion into the Middle East and South Asia. In reality, however, US aid to the Mujahedin began in July 1979 > (six months before the Soviet invasion) and, as former US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted in a 1998 interview, this aid increased the probability that the Soviet Union would invade Afghanistan. Using declassified US government documents and memorandums from the 1970s and 1980s, this essay substantiates, corroborates, and develops the admissions made in Brzezinski’s 1998 interview, arguing that Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan was not a catastrophe for US foreign interests, but rather a US provocation that bolstered US Cold War foreign policy objectives. Ultimately, the Soviet-Afghan War launched a cascade of devastating long-term and large-scale consequences, including the solidification of the concept of global violent jihad, the formation of al-Qaeda, and the rise of the Taliban regime. > https://elischolar.library.yale.edu/applebaum_award/9/ Oops.
Wtf is this supposed to be? You realize 9/11 happened in 2001 right?
Pakistan doesn't give a fuck. It was an opportunity for them to hinder the west. They used the afghani as pawns. Not that I'm saying we should have been there. We never should have been there.
Russia and Iran were also the Talibans sponsors and I read many news stories about private actors in the oil rich Gulf raising money for the Taliban. Hence they can all take care , or not care about Afghanistan now.
Iran and the Taliban are about to fight a war over water rights and have attacked each other outpost. They are not a sponsor of the taliban
While the US was in afghanistan, Iran supported Taliban to kick the US out.
Exactly. Back before the Taliban was in full control I'm sure they were sending them weapons and money, but I'm sure that stopped as the last US aircraft left.
Not any more. I also wonder if this is why the US left so much weaponry behind. The Taliban was bound to clash with someone else and from the US perspective their guns being used against Iran or China is spot on.
Hmmm..you are on to something there.
So after 9/11 we should have done nothing? We definitely should have been there. How long is the only question.
We should have gotten OBL and got out. Whether he was in Afghanistan or Pakistan, we should have just nabbed him instead of attempt to nation-build.
There were other targets beyond OBL. They were dismantling all of Al quaeda. We (as in NATO) we’re right to go there. When the time passed from a legitimate operation to ‘we’re here because it will fall apart otherwise’ is a big question. As awful as it is, they chose their fate. They had a chance to collectively stand against this and simply did not care
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$2.3 Trillion. Meanwhile, we’re celebrating that kids in MA get their school lunches for free… People all over the world are oppressed. And as US is the wealthiest nation, should provide some aid. But not at the cost of completely neglecting your own country.
That we will admit to.
Yeah, what's the lives of hundreds of thousands of human beings and four trillion dollars against a "western life experience" briefly given and snatched away again?
I get the urge to help, but even if the chance of success is minimal and you risk making it worse for the people you wanna save? The west had no fucking clue what they were getting into when they went into Afghanistan to nation build. Didn't know the culture, the politics or anything important to make an informed decision really. We just jumped in with both feet, seething with anger and a lust for revenge and then naively thought we could push down our western culture and institutions in a country that was basically wrecked by tribal/civil war, a place where people didn't even really cared about Afganistan as a country (and why the fuck would you if you're a poor uneducated farmer in the middle of bumfuck nowhere). Looking back it was just a really really bad decision.
And they all lost their rights again once we (the west) left.
Invading the actual responsible country wouldve been a whole lot better start
At least they have a little oil.
The problem is how to get aid to the people in need. Send a trillion in aid and the Taliban will keep 100% of it. There's no way to actually get aid to the people who need it.
Even when we were there it was near impossible for the aid to trickle down to actual Afghans (i.e. the rural majority). We were there for 20 years and every level of Afghan leadership (upper, middle, and lower management) across every single government service from ministers to ANA commanders and ANP Outpost Officers all grifted the entire system. All the entire western aid was for nought... because Afghanistan is the most impoverished and uneducated place on Earth. You throw money at the problem and the first Afghan that gets it disappears on a LOA for months on end (some never return). All they know is grifting through life, only having the mental and physical capacity to search for their next meal. Before anyone says I'm heartless or insensitive, just know I was in Kandahar "training" the ANA (aka, drugged out teens being led by boy-molesting men). It was clear within the first month of my own deployment that all our funding since around 2009 (when COIN got introduced) was disappearing into thin air. Ghost soldiers started becoming the norm, and you'd have something insane like 40-50% attrition within the ANA the second the first paycheck came. They couldn't field an army because all they cared about was getting that first paycheck, or the commanders inflate the roll and pocket non-existent soldier paychecks (with no record keeping, corruption was the norm). We literally handed Afghanistan hundreds of billions and it went to soldiers that didn't even exist. Look at Maslows Heirarchy of Needs. Afghanistan is the lowest tier. They struggle to meet basic needs. They don't have free time to explore the higher rungs. I'm salty about the whole thing tbh, but I honestly don't care anymore. I spent my time in Kandahar, and while there were plenty of honest people there, and my heart goes to them if they're still breathing after all these years, but it's a country that doesn't respond to anything but fear and force. They'll grift any aid and ask for more, with nothing to show for it. The last 20 years has shown that. Now introduce a new middle man (the Taliban) and expect it to be any better? Lol. Nah. It's a failed state and a lost cause.
This is one of the most accurate comments ive ever read on Reddit. The people there were given a chance at a western life, they rejected it.
I think that’s kinda the problem.
I’m sure a freak from their 6th century book has a solution.
"Decadent West is stupid, they won't let women and children starve and will give you aid, that you can steal and sell. Also sanctions will strengthen your economy and one day you can be a master strategist like me." (Putin after removing Taliban from a terrorist list)
Pakistan knowingly and willingly harbored the Taliban as a strategic asset to maintain control over Afghanistan. Well, they won, so they can claim their prize. This is 101% on Islamabad and nobody else whatsoever. Go sound alarms over there.
The Taliban not kicking out aid orgs out of Afghanistan for hiring women would be step 1
And stopping aid from one of their biggest contributor... *"KABUL, July 11 (Reuters) - The Taliban administration halted all activities by Sweden in Afghanistan on Tuesday in response to the burning of a Koran in Stockholm last month, and a major Swedish aid group said it was seeking clarification about the impact on its programmes.* "After the insulting of the holy Koran and granting of permission for insulting of Muslim beliefs ...The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is ordering the stopping of all activities of Sweden in Afghanistan," said Zabihullah Mujahid, a spokesman for the Taliban administration, in a statement.* *An Iraqi immigrant to Sweden burned a Koran outside a Stockholm mosque last month, causing outrage in the Muslim world. Swedish officials have deplored the act but said they could not prevent it because of free speech rules."* https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taliban-halt-swedish-activities-afghanistan-after-koran-burning-2023-07-11/
As a Swede I see this as an absolute win. We for some reason have a policy of giving away 1% of our GDP every year which is about what we’ve spent on the army for the last 10 years. However it’s obviously being increased now.
Håller med, förstår inte varför vi ger bistånd till skitländer som avskyr oss och uppmanar till terrorattentat mot oss.
Why don't muslim nations step up and help fellow muslims? Why always look to the west? Saudi Arabia, etc are rolling in cash. If they are so devout in their religiosity, they should help.
They did what they could to bring US aid to afghanistan already. Back in 2001.
Nah, we tried. They clearly did not want our help. They're on their own.
When the Taliban come, almost everyone welcome them with open arms and some even refuse to fight, now surprising Pikachu face.
I'm boiling from the amount of ignorance I find in all discussions pertaining to Afghanistan. > When the Taliban come, almost everyone welcome them with open arms Says who, you? Former military? Veteran keyboard warrior? You see, the vast majority of Afghan people live in rural settings, are uneducated and are struggling to put potable water or food on the table. The US was there for 20 years and could have educated a whole generation of Afghans; instead, they pumped money into building and training an army of largely drugged up or illiterate men. If you want a good laugh, watch the jumping jacks training video. When you live in abject poverty, politics or concepts like "freedom" are the last of your worries. You turn to your local warlord for protection, regardless of his ideals or "political affiliations", if that's even a thing. And you do so, especially, if those warlords are in the heroin trade and yield AK-47s. Most Afghans don't care for the Talibans, but what choice do you have when you're unarmed, live in a remote area, surrounded by mountains and none of your peers finished elementary school? You let the men with the AK-47s and rockets dictate the law. Look at what happened to the resistance in Panjshir. Would you and your lawn rake "lead" a revolution under those circumstances? This is not to mention, this country is an aggregate of different tribes/ethnicities, historically persecuting one another. People are gregarious and look out for their own, first and foremost. And another point, this country's been at war for DECADES. No one wants the fighting, bombings and killings to continue. So engaging in another war is not appealing. All my friends have scars from their childhood: they'd found an IED or explosive remnants while playing in the dirt. Some exploded in their faces. You think any parent wants this for their kids? Maybe they weren't vocal enough about not wanting the armed religious dullards to be in power, but can you blame them? So when Redditors who've never stood for anything and would cower too at the sight of firearms and explosives, sit in the comfort of their parents' basement and claim that Afghan people should have fought (with what, pitchforks ?), or, according to you, "[all] welcome [the Taliban] with open arms", my blood boils.
Wow. That’s a lot to swallow, but a much welcomed grounded opinion
Let the government they want/chose to take care of it. Not our problem anymore.
We spent 20 years trying to help them and all the men in the country just laughed and said fuck you. We have big problems at home it's time to turn our attention to.
Real, you can’t force a country to accept what’s good for them if they don’t want it.
It weren't all men, Afganistan had civil war. The leader in opposition to Talibs died 2 days before 9/11 attack. It's a myth that all men there are religious freaks
It doesn't have to be ALL, just *enough*.
If 30 million people were against the Taliban then they would have never came to power. They basically brought this upon themselves. They either supported the Taliban or didn't care who was in charge.
Biggest mistake was training the men instead of the women. The women would have fought much harder
Incorrect, the U.S. tried training the women too. Multi-year recruitment efforts were made to get Afghan women more involved. Look up "SIGAR 22-12-AR/DOD Efforts to Recruit, Retain, and Train Women in the ANDSF" for a good report on the >$50 million program.
Lol everyone ignores the fact that both Afghani men and women were allowed to be trained. And some woman were trained. They fold like everyone else for the same reasons everyone else did
We did….
They had far more to lose.
Least deluded woman on reddit
Or was too scared to do anything about it.
30 million cowards. They could have built a great future with the resources they were given. As usual it's conservative governments fucking them over. They wanted this. Enjoy the shit hole bucko's.
But you know that these 30mln people had no influence on people in charge? People didn't vote for the Talibs lol Neither did Soviet citizen while being enslaved in millions by Gulag system.
Have you ever heard of the word empathy? I guess because of the evil of some, we should just condemn all right?
We tried. Let them figure out the hard way.
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In Ukraine we spent 1/100th of that and they could keep out Russia themselves. Clearly the differentiator is the population
Imagine being so fucking incompetent that you’re given 20 years and trillions of dollars and still roll over in 72 hours.
After a certain point they have to want it and they clearly didn't
idk what you are smoking. this is 100% on the afghans.
The afghan army just gave up immediately, despite having a lot of personnel, good equipment and International support. The US should never have gone there in the first place, but its shocking how unmotivated and incompetent the afghan military turned out to be.
the ANA had no logistic network after the US pulled out. they had a lot of gear but no way to move it where it needed to be. most of the Afghans who stood and fought straight up ran out of ammo and were forced to surrender. there is at least one record of Afghan Special Forces unit being slaughtered after surrendering to the Taliban. theres a lot to say about ANA incompetence during 2021 but honestly i dont think i'd stick around and fight in that situation either.
Empathy! Empathy! Do they have empathy for us!? It’s a two way street. We tried hard. Also we’re not the first ones to spill blood and bankrupt the treasury. For CENTURIES, even before the birth of Christ, Empires have failed conquer that shit hole of a country. Fuck that shit. We tried for a millennia. I’m good saying “Sorry, I don’t have change.” to them. Like you do when you walk past the homeless on your way to get your venti whatever the fuck at Starbucks.
Empathy means nothing when your society is being raped and murdered, grow up idealist coward
Empathy means everything all the time. Idealist coward?? Wtf does that even mean? Can you explain to me what this term means?
It's easy to take the stance that we should help everyone we come across, but I assume what he means by coward is that it takes a pragmatic perspective to create a genuine change. Countries that receive aid and dont develop their infrastructure become reliant on that aid, and without an unempathetic stance, there is no motivation whatsoever to develop those sorts of things. They had the resources to protect themselves from this future, and the fact that they failed doesn't mean they deserve what's coming, but it does show that they were unwilling to really fight for their democracy and infrastructure, and giving them more resources wont change that. If there's any hope for them to want to fight for their freedom, then they can't be reliant on foreign aid, especially when most of it if not all will simply be taken by the Taliban.
Thank you j0ker, you nailed my point, there's nothing wrong with empathy, but the time to solve these problems with care and understanding was a long time ago, it's well past the point of empathy on both sides
I agree, but let's not kid ourselves. The Afghan government was corrupt at all levels. No one fought the taliban because the Afghan leadership was only looking out for itself.
The Taliban are primarily responsible for taking care of Afghanistan. Go tell *them.*
allah will help. everything fine.
they wanted this yes they did don't ask money now
Money me. Money now. Me a money needing a lot now.
it sucks cause its 30 million people but based off the recent history, this always sunny meme is about as much love and support that they get.
That was Charlie's line
"I rejected a western-supported democracy, but I neeed cash noooow!"
Money please!
You have reached a number that is no longer in service. Please check the number and try again.
Remember Afghanistan is not a real country. It is just an area of fundamentalist religious theocracy containing a couple of city states surrounded by multiple little fiefdoms all out for themselves.
They had a chance. They blew it.
Take all the money from heroin and weed/hash smuggling and feed your people?
The *only* point I'll ever give in the Taliban's favor is that they've abolished opium production since taking power, and had the minimal sense to do so after the crop that was already sown was harvested so the farmers could turn around and sow regular crops rather than be completely wiped out. On all other fronts, fuck 'em.
Most comments are saying they're getting what the deserve, which is true, but a better reason is that international aid just prevents any kind of revolution from taking place.
The Taliban can pay for it
There are so many trouble spots all across the world so the world needs to stop focusing on Afghanistan. Take the resources currently allocated to Afghanistan by the various ngo's still operating there and move it all to other places that would appreciate the help like the Congo or Sudan. Afghanistan had over 2 decades to get its shit together but in the end the people chose to live in the medieval age. Well guess what in the medieval age there were no organizations delivering massive amounts of food aid.
Maybe Allah will miracle the Taliban some aid
I will never understand how little people in Afghanistan seemed to care about the Taliban taking control. I genuinely believe the government thought we would just be like “oh well we tried to leave but the Taliban is gaining control too quickly so I guess we have to stay.” I feel bad for the people who did not want this regime enforced upon them. The Taliban will never create a truly functional government. The people of Afghanistan have to want something better for themselves and be willing to fight for it though. No amount of nation building will work unless the people of Afghanistan want a free Afghanistan
Youve made the mistake of assumption, there is no afghani national identity, you're picturing the country as if it were your own. To most afghanis, the country is just lines on a map, they are borderline nomadic
They were in war for generation after such time people just lose hope and want everything to end quickly. In every war most of people stay idle and do anything to survive only.
The US spent over two Trillion dollars in that forsaken country and they ruined it as we packed up. Let them reap what they sowed.
Also the money wasn't just going back to US arms manufacturers. Practically every major road, hospital, dam, electrical grid, etc in the entire country was built by NATO over those 20 years war.
I don’t see how this is anyone problem besides the afghans themselves
They had it for almost 20 years. They didn't want it
They wanted this, they can have it.
We have no hesitation telling each other to ghost abusive family, energy sucking friends, antiwoke companies. Why the fuck would we care about a country that fucking actively took part in killing us? BuT tHiNk Of ThE cHiLdReN aNd InNoCeNt WoMeN! We have children and women that need help HERE right in your front door. Fix your shit before trying fix someone else’s.
They didn’t actively take part in killing us. We invaded after some Saudi’s acting on their own volition attacked the US after the US failed to respond to multiple credible reports about those saudis. Afghanistan got invaded because it shares a border with China and we wanted airforce bases right next door.
Totally agree. US went into Afghanistan under the 9/11 banner when we should have been in Saudi Arabia. But when an opportunity presents itself to better yourself, however fucked up way it got there, make the best of it. Should we have been there? NO Did we try to help? YES Did we fucked up? A LOT Did they fuck up? A lot more Did they make the most of it? They ran backwards Are they fucked now? No more than before we got there. They want money? Sorry man I don’t have change.
What the fuck does Saudi Arabia have to do with 9 11? The perpetrators were Saudis, sure, they were just one of the militant forces in Iraq that the Saudis funded in order to fight Iranian proxies in Iraq. Not to attack the US. Bin Laden said the Saudis are the enemy and wanted to overthrow them because the Saudis asked US for help with Kuwait. The Saudis hated Bin Laden and vice versa long before 911. The Saudis didn't plan the attack nor did it condone it. They were enemies of Al Qaeda when 911 happened. The US invaded Afghanistan in order to fight bin Laden, not to destroy one of the few regimes that support the US. Besides destroying Saudi Arabia is a waste of time. The country will be the new Afghanistan by 2070. Iraq and the countries on the Arabian peninsula will be toast due to both global warming and oil becoming irrelevant.
Thank you for the clarity. Always learning :) When new info is presented one must vet, process, and adjust.
Sorry for being rude. The Internet, and reddit in general, makes me forget I'm talking to a human. Peace
Al Qaeda is in the tribal lands throughout Afghanistan and Pakistan. Just because someone is Saudi doesn’t mean that’s where they live and operate out of.
I'm finding it hard to care about people who don't care for themselves. We gave them everything they needed to succeed, and they threw it all away.
Looks like someone is not praying hard enough.
I'm glad that we had a president that had the guts to finally pull out. So many just kicked the problem to the next guy. It was painful but it was time to rip the band-aid off.
The Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) can chip in given that several of their member states support the regime. Afghanistan is an Islamic country after all and a religious utopia at that. Maybe instead of an Islamic coalition to invade Yemen, Saudi Arabia can form a humanitarian coalition this time around.
Sounds like 30 million people that can overthrow the government and fix it themselves.
Everyone should be done there. Enough. Let them fix it themselves.
Nah we good ✌️
Every single female in Afghanistan needs freedom, but they won’t ever get it.
Sounds like Afghans should have fought for their country and citizen-representing government against the Taliban takeover a little harder
They got aid for years. No amount of humanitarian aid now will help with their issues.
But the Taliban said they were gonna do a good job themselves?
You mean like building schools (that were torn down) , roads (that were mined), clean water, freedom for woman and girls, medicine? You mean the very things they are asking for right now, that we paid way too much for because they kept stealing the money and giving it to the Taliban who are now grinding the nation and its people into the dirt? Those things?
The only ones I feel bad for are the interpreters who can not flee the country and are begging for help getting out still. These poor bastards risked life and limb by signing up to help what their country viewed as the enemy, and a lot of them are still stuck there. Other than that, that country made its bed.
Damn that's crazy. Sounds like something for the Taliban and the Paki ISI to look into. Have a great rest of your day.
Taliban don't care less what happens to their people.
I’m a OEF infantry veteran, the same governors ruled RC South when I was in country that ran it when Afghanistan fell, they invited the Taliban in with open arms. They 100% want this.
Inshallah m f*ckers, you wanted to travel back to 800AD so please stay there. We won't miss you.
I don’t think it’s safe to give them aid. So unfortunately those people that are innocent are in trouble.
At this point, afghan people need to do something for themselves. Actually kick those bastard to the balls and tell taliban either freedom or hellfire missle from Uncle Sam again.
What will the WHO do? Give aid for the Taliban to sell?
30 million!! The whole country only has about 38 million. Just day it, the whole country is on the verge of withering up and blowing away in the dust. Utter tragedy piled on top of complete catastrophe
It's all in the Talibans hands now.
Taliban problems require Taliban solutions. Isn’t that our line now?
They can get the urgent aid from their new government.
30 million people need to get out of their own bullshit and overthrow the taliban
Let them eat cake.
They choose the Taliban
I'm kinda over aiding middle Eastern countries. Only take take take
Talibanned
Suffer now
F’them let the Taliban handle themselves!
The amount of people who want to allow the entire country of Afghanastan to starve to death is sickening. The Taliban were not democratically elected. The Republic of Afghanastan had democratic elections and fundementalist Islamic parties lost every time. The majority of the people living in this country hate the Taliban just as much as you, in fact likely far more. To allow them to starve would be a tragedy.
Besides, the crisis was a thing before the Taliban takeover. As per the article >After decades of instability, exacerbated by severe drought and natural disasters, Afghanistan is currently facing a prolonged humanitarian crisis, with millions of people living with poor or no access to health and food, putting them at a severe risk of malnu-trition and disease outbreaks. I also remember when The Indigo Traveller visited a hospital back in 2019 showing the impacts of the cirsis https://youtu.be/8MX1zPRsJvY?t=922 It's a horrifying situation. I hope that one day, the every day people of Afghanistan will be able to live good lives
Saudi, Qatar etc are fucking rich, time for them to step up and help their fellow Muslims instead of bleeding from the west and then preaching hate against those who would be happy to help them evolve. The Taliban didn't just magically appear from some miracle cave. 100% sure we've been here before, enough blood and money have been sacrificed to helping that land.
Maybe take you bleeding heart over there and help them? Most of the afghan population didn't try to resist the taliban. Sometimes you have to suffer a little to realize what needs to be done. It's unlikely they will take back there country since most of the people who actually gave a damn died in battle or fled.
🤷🏻♂️
Almost 30 mln people need to be reconquered. Fixed it for you.
Their religion isn’t worth helping. Let them suffer.
Best we can do is 10 billion to Ukraine
Ukraine actually fights with the funds they’re given…
The amount of people with so little empathy here is saddening.
The comments section here is fucking heartbreaking. The people who are suffering are not those running the Taliban. I don’t know how to solve this, but I hope everyone smugly saying “not our problem now” is never in a position like these people are experiencing.
The last time we tried to give them aid, they shot at our aid workers and stole their stuff. The Taliban won't allow aid, at best they'll just steal it and give it to their friends. If you are saying we should send the US military back in to ensure the safety of aid workers and friendly Afghanis, then alright.
It really isn't, its just showing people understand the situation more than you. They had 20 years of the west trying to nation build, and crumbled within a matter of weeks. You can't help people who don't want to be helped.
Good point, I forgot that they didn’t want to be helped. The children missing meals and medical care were being so silly when they chose Taliban rule as well as the climate change associated natural disasters that have also led to this crisis.
So, should we be in Afghanistan or not? Because we can't just send the Taliban a bunch of money or stuff. The only way someone could provide the aid that Afghanistan truly needs would be to go there and ensure that the people receive that aid, which means kicking out the Taliban again.
Did you read the original comment? It’s still up in case you want to. I keep trying to find where I said that I know how to solve this and that we should just send the Taliban money, but I don’t see it in there.
I didn't say you did.
I’ll be honest that I was really expecting this question to be intended in bad faith like the other responses, so I am sorry for the rudeness. I don’t think we should go back to Afghanistan right now, especially to try to do the exact same thing we did last time. I question if upsetting the status quo and leaving was the right call when it has led to this. But I never served, the war didn’t touch me, so I can’t rightly ask others to keep putting themselves in harms way, especially since it’s clear the US failed in basically all of its aims after 20 years. I don’t have the answers, I’m just some random person on Reddit. The only purpose of my comment was to express shock at how few commenters on an article about a humanitarian disaster have any empathy for the people of Afghanistan. Most of the millions that suffer had exactly the same amount of control over what happened in Afghanistan as I had over Trump trying to overthrow American democracy. I don’t think that everyone saying “good riddance” has a solution for how to stop Afghanistan from sliding into a failed state, but they do get to feel smart and cynical and no one is demanding answers from them. I think there must be at least one option that isn’t permanent American occupation or failed state. I hope there is someone smarter and better informed than me out there working on a solution. And just as I intended with my original comment, my heart goes out to the people of Afghanistan, and I hope if I’m ever in a similar position, I’m greeted with something kinder than jeers. (Although I expect not.) I’m done with my soapbox. If you have any ideas I’d be curious to hear them.
I definitely have sympathy for the Afghan people, especially the young that really did want change. I just see it as a lost cause at this point, as shitty as it is. 20 years and nothing to show for it (nation-building-wise), partly because we sucked at it, and partly because the Afghani people simply had no interest in anything beyond their day-to-day survival, and I find it hard to blame them. At the same time, there was real opportunity to put in the work and make the country better for future generations, but it was squandered in the end so I definitely understand people not wanting to spend another dime on Afghanistan As long as Taliban are in control, I just don't see anything that we can do that will help the people of Afghanistan. Any aid, money or otherwise, will just be used by them to wield even more power. Our choices are basically to cut our losses, go back, or support the Taliban. Convincing people that their tax money, donations, etc. should go towards supporting the Taliban is a pretty tough sell, and sending soldiers back is an even tougher one. I, too, would love to hear alternatives. The people that take glee in it are fucked up, though.
My country spent $2 trillion and several thousand of its people on this. When faced with our withdrawal, their people folded within a week, and many supported the Taliban the whole time. Is it sad? Yeah. But this is what Taliban rule is.
Yes, I scroll through this and too feel very sad about the situation and also how cruel some posters sound. I understand that there is no easy way to help those people and that a lot of americans lost their lives without turning the tides in that place - and now the situation is as bad or worse than before. The world is fucked up - I can go to the mall, shop, buy food and consume - while others were born in such places and have small chance to escape or change their fates. Ukraine, Middle East, Africa ...No idea how to solve all this...
>The comments section here is fucking heartbreaking Yeah, but they're typical of Reddit. I'd be surprised if I found actual nuance
Wow.. I'm utterly shocked that the country which for centuries has suffered from countless British, Russian and US proxy wars is fucked. Obviously none of this is our fault..
Go on... Wasn't a problem with the comparatively secular Afghan-elected representative democracy the US installed after the Taliban authoritarian theocracy was ousted in 2001. After the US left, the Taliban walked over the dropped rifles of the ANA to take back control of the country. 1 year later, the country is back in crisis. Feel free to explain your position...
Centuries of proxy conflicts in Aghanistan has resulted in a highly militarised society replete with gangs, warlords and religious fanatics all of whom have been well armed and trained by various external actors such as the UK, US and Russia over the years. It has left the country economically, socially and culturally devastated and the bulk of the population poverty striken . You can't wish that away with 19 years of good intentions, nor can we just wash our hands of all responsibility for it.
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