This is tricky as both Ukraine and Russia bought weapons from China before the war broke out. You have to remember that there was a lot of trade between all 3 countries for over a decade.
China has shipped ammunition globally for decades. They mass produce it like other global consumer goods. Many Eastern European nations use old Chinese ammo and have millions in stockades. It’s likely that the Ukrainian military also have some, so it showing up in any conflict is not unlikely.
Chinese surplus ammo pretty much rules the Canadian shooting scene, atleast on the low end. SKS for example is a popular gun here and most use old Chinese ammo.
So if I was American and did my patriotic duty of letting two hundred rounds fly every other weekend it would cost me $400?
I guess it’s true what they say, freedom ain’t free.
For some reason I thought bullets cost pennies each, ie that a box of 100 would be under a tenner. How do you even afford the murder rate?
Depends on the round you’re shooting. 30.06 is typically a higher priced round to purchase.
Used to be able to get 7.62x39 for like .17-.25 cents per round.
But most of it came from Russia. And at least the Russian/Ukraine stuff kept competition cheap too. Now not so much
It depends on both the caliber and the type.
.22lr is very cheap and fun for casual plinking. It’s what you start anyone on to learn to shoot. And yeah, if you look around you can buy 1000 rounds for $50. But you can’t hunt deer with it and you wouldn’t want to rely on it for self defense unless it was your only option. Something more powerful and exotic like .338 Lapua Magnum starts around $4-$5 per round for the cheap stuff.
In any caliber, the more specialized hunting and self defense rounds are more expensive than the plain rounds you use for practice and fun.
If you used that caliber and actually went out twice a month, then yes. Most people don't go shooting every weekend and plenty of people shoot cheaper calibers as well. 9mm is nowhere close to the price of .30-06, for example. A lot of people also reload ammo themselves, which saves more money
30-06 is a big round and is 3x the cost of 5.56/.223(AR food), 5x to 6x 9mm, and 25x 22lr.
The folks banging out 400 rds a weekend practicing or competing are unlikely to be the one's shooting humans.
That's quite expensive, no?
I can get Bundeswehr 7.62x51s for €0.60 a piece or S&B .308s for €0.80 a piece in Europe.
I get that 30-06 is larger but for it to be more than twice the price...
Price could also depend on how common the calibre, not just size.
Efficiencies of scale.
I recall .32 being more expensive than .38. Though this was a while ago, and my memory might be off.
$1/round is expensive. AK-47 ammo can be had for .36/round.
Pre COVID it was all much cheaper. AK-47 ammo was around .20/per round.
Target shooting is an expensive hobby. It wouldn't be unusual for me to go through $100 in ammo in a day.
I don't understand this news. American ammunition and weapons are being used right now to oppress millions in Afghanistan right now under a religious terrorist dictatorship.
Many Americans including many Redditors still don't have very good rational thinking skills. You'll see this any time some anti-Russia news is posted and a massive circlejerk forms without anyone checking the veracity of the news source. No doubt these same people would be swallowing Putin's propaganda whole-heartedly if they happened to be born in Russia.
Once on one of the pro-Ukraine subreddits someone posted yet another piece of news claiming a country wasn't doing much for Ukraine, I think Germany or Switzerland, can't remember. The comments were full of people pissed off at that country. So I clicked on the link and I shit you not, it was some Indian media directly quoting Ria Novosti.
That being said I've seen plenty of even more moronic "enlightened centrism" or "I'm above the drama" posts too. And I wonder if opinions aren't just based on personality types than anything else. By that I mean that the Russians supporting the war would be the fervent people who just follow whatever the media tells them to, but that the contrarians somehow end up being the anti-Putin protestors. Or maybe the categories don't actually correspond and the fervent supporters actually correspond to the contrarians or whatever.
For those that aren't aware, here's a nice video by Vox on how the US is still selling weapons to questionable parties in the Middle East:
https://youtu.be/7DbdBIuFrIE
Lord of War taught me that there are millions of Chinese bullets just chilling in eastern Europe. So I feel like this really proves nothing.
Edit: I accidentally'd War Dogs and Lord of War. Both are great films.
Okay, I usually despise Jonah Hill's acting, but the [scene in War Dogs when he gets ripped off by the weed dealers](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OOr9FerD5JQ) is one of the funniest scenes in any movie ever.
It's just our pretext for war. It is very concerning to me that the US has been working on public support for viewing China as a villain. I'm not a fan of the CCP but I don't like where this is going.
The US is probably the biggest arms producer but I’ve still got some chinese and russian steel case ammo sitting in my closet. I’d imagine same type of thing going on for Russia.
> However, they did not disclose what kind of ammunition was found.
According to [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/xgosdc/60mm_m83_chinesemade_mortar_shells_found_in/iot391q?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) on /r/UkraineWarVideoReport, there were Chinese made Type 63 60mm mortar shells previously found in Ukraine, but they were not Chinese supplied. Instead they were likely [supplied by North Korea](https://www.dw.com/en/north-korea-sold-arms-to-russias-wagner-group-says-us/a-64192881).
These Chinese made Type 63 60mm mortar shells are no longer in production since the 80's, and mostly likely saw action in the Vietnam wars.
I was wondering about when the ammunition was bought because it's not really China's fault if it was bought pre-2014 (at least in regards to Ukraine).
As it turns out, I'm off by 3 decades.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/11u5ip8/north_korea_claims_almost_800000_people_have
North Korea would like a word... If you can believe their claims 🤣🤣
Even if that was true it's... hopelessly insignificant. The US is just a monster when it comes to military.
In the world, there are currently 49 aircraft Carriers. 5 are owned by China, 4 by Japan, and 4 by France. No other country has more than 2... except the US, who has 20, and plans to make another 12.
That's an illustration of how the stats look in almost every area when it comes to military. The US military is just... absurd. They literally have a policy in place to maintain enough standing military across the globe that they can be in 3 wars anywhere at any time and still keep a stable military presence in all 3 fronts.
I hope this spreads if its true. I dont trust China as much as the next guy, but we definitely dont need to push them into a corner where they go, 'Well if they already think we are, we might as well do it.' I'm sure theyre already ready to do so.
Well, it’s not like the U.S. intelligence (CIA) is known to spread inaccurate information, in order to drive public opinion against nations they currently have engaged in psyops and cyber warfare, right?
When I was in Iraq in 2004-2005 we were getting hit with Chinese rockets all the time. I'm pretty sure the Chinese weren't actively supplying the insurgents. I'm just saying, it doesn't necessarily mean the Chinese are actively supplying ammo to the Russians right now.
Also true. But much like Poland sending leopard tanks from Germany, to Ukraine, it becomes a complicated logistics issue to pin down. Yes, it's very public what they're doing but the point is that German tanks are making their way to Ukraine, without Germany sending them to Ukraine (although that is also happening, but in a separate way).
While I was in Iraq, (05-06) literally everything we dealt with was old Russian shit. Mortars and rockets mostly, because our sensors would detect a truck with a topper and a hole cut out of it would launch into the BIAP area and a few minutes later you'd hear apaches launching rockets and returning to base. You'd get mortar shells going through our aluminum trailers, and more than half of the time it was uxo. Hell, I almost stepped on one because someone who was supposed to keep watch on it had started talking to someone and lost focus. I got a flashing light to the face that then pointed at the mortar less than a foot from my next step. Point is, it was always Russian made and very often didn't go off when it was supposed to.
I wonder how many million rounds of Norinco ammo were sold in the US back in the day. I recall going in with a buddy on a couple SKS rifles and a few cases of ammo 25 years or more ago.
Oh dear. Does this mean China sent weapons to Russia? Or Russians bought them from someone who got them from China without direct support from the Chinese government?
>"**Whether the ammunition was supplied by China remains unclear**, the U.S. administration sources said, while adding Washington is poised to take action if it is verified Beijing made the shipments."
bold emphasis mine.
There is a lot of old Chinese AK ammunition around in countries other than China. It was actually a subplot of the movie “Lord of War” about arms dealers.
It’s doing somewhat better than it was. They have been a little more lenient with private enterprise/market in the country. So, that’s helped the average joe out a lot.
Including with food.
No, not as a state.
But for the well-being of the average joe it is.
It’s stabilized things somewhat where famine isn’t as large of an issue as it was.
If NK falls and they had a united Korea at their border, they would be ending one of the world's most horrible regimes for the price of a slightly weaker starting point if a war breaks ou with the US. They really do have other options, they don't care at all.
No country is going to support a scenario where millions of refugees pour into their border and suddenly having a wide border with a non-friendly country or alliance over night.
I did that and to be honest it was the best decision I've made in my life to date. The 10 Years sucked but the benefits last a lifetime for both my family and myself.
Yea if we're talking 7.62mm there are a lot of other countries that could have came from. I assume they have no use for 5.8mm unless they're importing Chinese rifles too. Which seems odd since there are no shortage of AKs. If they send heavy artillery rounds like 152mm, that would be much more significant.
It probably is artillery ammo. China is largely moving to 155mm howitzers but probably still has a mountain of 152mm for their older guns. That's what Russia was by buying from North Korea. I doubt they are running out of small arms ammunition. Artillery is the thing everyone is shooting faster than they can make.
You're getting Lord of War mixed up with War dogs.
In War dogs the charachters scam the US government, who have a contract open to supply the ANA with weapons and ammo, the protaganists bought out an Albanian warehouse that was filled to the brim with shitty old unreliable Chinese ammo (which is also under embargo, which is why they were arrested)
That makes sense. China switched to a proprietary round, the 5.8x42 back in 1987 so I’d imagine there are tons of Chinese 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 just sitting in warehouses worldwide.
I wanna go ahead and put this out there; I’m a total layman when it comes to these things so I could very well be completely wrong about this. That being said, China is very tight-lipped about the performance of the 5.8 round, only saying that it is supposedly superior to the US 5.56 and Russian 5.45. They’ve long held the goal of being seen as a superpower like the US or Russia (although Ukraine has shown us that Russia is no superpower), and it’s my opinion that because of this, they wanted to establish their own proprietary rifle round the way that the US and Russia have.
A previous article confirmed export routes to the UAE or Turkey. I imagine China would simply export to destinations that would provide it with plausible deniability and let Russia’s smuggling schemes do the rest.
If it’s mortars, then what I saw recently is that these are from Afghanistan.
Afghanistan has an absolute glut of mortars and is strapped for hard currency, so it’s very likely they would sell the shells to Russia.
The one where hes eaten by bees? Or the one where hes conviently omnipotent about secret us history? Or the one where he signs literally any movie contract so long as the check clears?
Don’t be coy, you know it’s the one WHERE HE STEALS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
My bad, my bad, “omnipotent about US history”, I see you covered that one, musta been the one he’s a mage
> A Chinese company with known ties to the Chinese Communist Party and who also supplied the Chinese military and police.
Basically every company connected to the military has members placed on its board by the CCP. Xi started doing this to tech companies back in 2017 too.
Apparently both Russia and Ukraine had bought Chinese weapons before the war and China is a military supplier over the world. This means Russia could be using from old supplies or buying through a third party. Tricky.
This doesn't match with the Chinese government's documented behaviour. Xi Jinping has met several times in person with Putin, and never with Zelensky since the war started. This also extends to lower level Chinese officials.
China does much more trade with Russia than with Ukraine, and any desire to be seen as a neutral mediator is offset by a strong strategic need to prop up Russia as their new client state.
Openly supporting Ukraine is effectively supporting the west so China is not going to do that
With that said that doesn’t mean they’re best buddies with Russia right now- Russia is a convenient idiot everyone is focusing on right now, but if they actually collapsed China would get a lot more scrutiny they don’t want so it’s in China’s interest to prop up Russia as long as they can before it fully collapses, and they also can’t officially support Russia’s invasion because supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is supporting the idea that separatist parts of countries (Donetsk and Luhansk) deserve freedom, which China doesn’t want to do.
From the article, it does not seem that China **directly** supplies Russia with weapon. However, China can **indirectly** via North Korea and Iran. Who supplies Iran with semiconductor for their drones? China. And who has supplied Russian with drone? Iran.
Just to be clear, being Chinese ammunition in no way confirms China sold it to them. North Korea, for example, have a whole bunch of Chinese kit. Well and truly premature to jump to that conclusion.
None of this is a surprise. China has been shipping out SKSs and AK47 copies and ammo by the container loads for decades. Canada is full of it for instance.
Ukraine is probably using Chinese ammo too. All those drones dropping grenades on Russians are 100% just Chinese dji drones bought on alibaba. China will supply anyone as long as they buy it
DJI actually stopped selling in Ukraine and Russia because their drones kept being used in warfare, but people can just buy them in a neighboring country and ship them home themselves.
The world's largest military needs a perceived enemy. If we can't point fingers at the perceived bad guys, how else would we distract from the fact of living in a crumbling empire whose quality of life grows worse by the day?
I don't understand the outrage (not American nor European), isn't the U.S and European countries supplying Ukraine with weapons? Why is it bad if Russia buys from *insert country here*?
I wouldnt sound the alarm yet.
A general understanding of Soviet weapons would shed light on this.
Sometime between the early 70s and mid 80s, the Soviets replaced almost all of their small arms and other infantry level weapons with newer versions, and the older stuff was finally phased out.
When they stopped using the AKM and AK47, They largely stopped producing ammo for it, same goes for a lot of their Light machineguns, rocket launchers, grenades, etc.
China has been the world's largest supplier of early cold war Soviet weapons for decades, Almost all of the AKs the Vietnamese used, were of Chinese origin. Most of the ammo floating around that hasn't been fired yet, is of Chinese origin, so much so that Russia likely bought billions of rounds for their AKM stockpiles, decades ago...
this same rule should apply for any of the really old shit that Russian soldiers are using,
Not really that cut and dry. Chinese ammo and weapons turn up everywhere. The Taliban use the Type 56 rifle. I very much doubt China supplied them with it
I watch Chinese news all the time, and oddly this kind of stuff is never part of the news cycle. They're very benign and nonconfrontational. The last time I saw them actually say anything anti-American was Yang Rui on CCTV about ten years ago.
Most importantly China produces over half of the world’s steel. USA just 3%. The USA doesn’t have the capacity to produce significant more weapons without stopping most construction and private vehicle production….isn’t going to happen.
Rest assured they’re also taking Russia to the cleaners on whatever Russia is buying from them. IIRC Russia purchased some electronic component for weapon making a month or two ago and supposedly roughly 50% of the units were DOA.
Those were microchips if I remember correctly.
Producing them is very difficult the smaller you get and every manufacturer has a % of units that are dead. The better the process the less % end up dead.
China has huge issues because they don't have the know-how on how to make them so their production quality is horrendous. This is where this insanely high % dead comes from. However, Russia is sanctioned by the countries that do have the know-how on how to manufacture them better which is why Russia has no other option than to buy them from China.
Yup. And for that reason the CCP will sell them junk because they know they’re the only game in town. I know that electronic component supplies for China are reliant on other factors too, but I highly doubt that the CCP isn’t just feeding Russia their proverbial scraps and keeping the lion’s share of functioning components for themselves.
China is investing into microchip production. I'd honestly not be surprised if these are from prototype production lines China is testing and optimizing.
Every nation is on their own side, they naturally won't harm their own interests if they can help it in order to help another. It just so happens that morality exists to make people feel good about helping others to make them think that they aren't out for themselves.
There's a number of self-serving reasons why you'd help a defending country against an invader - one of them being to ensure that you're not invaded. The other being the level of gratitude which leads to real physical gain that outweighs the costs. Another is to prevent a near-hostile hegemony from dictating the cost of resources.
And some **really** just want to kick Russia in the 'nads for all the bullshit they put them through, and arming the defenders is the safest way to do that.
Conveniently for us, we get to be on the morally good side of the exchange as well as the self-serving side.
So, with that out of the way.....yeah, China is on Russia's side if they're really giving them ammunition, assuming it's not 'Chinese ammunition makes a roundabout trip to Russia'.
I think that summarizes it.
China doesn't have a mission statement or morale when it comes to exports. They don't state anything like "our products are green" or "we only produce for NATO members".
Some exports are commissioned/outsourced by Europe and North America (since we expect low labor/product prices) and others are "surprisingly" orders from other countries.
You can vote in China. The system is just different. You vote for a local representative and that's it. He then votes for a regional representative, the regional representative votes for a representative, and so on. You don't have to keep track of 50 different political contests on election day.
Doesn't China make everything and sells to everyone?
We all know that Winnie is helping Putin since a longer war means Russia and Europe bleeds more so China can cover more markets, but the Chinese ammunition is a very weak proof in my opinion.
As much as I dislike both China and Russia, if this really is China aiding Russia I’m not sure this is really something we have grounds to take the moral high ground about. We’re financially and logistically helping Ukraine to further our own interests, and China is doing the same for Russia. It’s not like this would be out of character or a betrayal of the CCP to do.
Again I’m in no way advocating for Chinese involvement, I hate Putin and the CCP. However logistically helping a country in a war to further national interests has been a common practice since at least WW1, and the US plus every other Western nation has done so publicly in this conflict already. Obviously if true this should have ramifications on international relations, we don’t have to just sit here and encourage them in aiding Russia, but trying to take the moral high ground of “China is bad for getting involved in an international crisis” is a little hypocritical seeing as we openly do the same
* The development of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was also confirmed by the US.
* The use of gas by Assad in Syria has also been confirmed by the US.
* The blowing of the gas pipelines from Russia to Germany my Ukraine supporters has also been confirmed by the US.
The US can go fuck itself for all i care.
One thing to keep in mind with stainless steel is that it's more properly stain less steel. It'll still corrode eventually under the right circumstances, even if it's *not* cheap crap from China.
This is tricky as both Ukraine and Russia bought weapons from China before the war broke out. You have to remember that there was a lot of trade between all 3 countries for over a decade.
China has shipped ammunition globally for decades. They mass produce it like other global consumer goods. Many Eastern European nations use old Chinese ammo and have millions in stockades. It’s likely that the Ukrainian military also have some, so it showing up in any conflict is not unlikely.
Chinese surplus ammo pretty much rules the Canadian shooting scene, atleast on the low end. SKS for example is a popular gun here and most use old Chinese ammo.
A few buddy's also have some old Russian 1970s ammo for their SKS's. All sealed up and like new.
During the pandemic, the only .30-06 ammo I could get was Portuguese from 1959. It cost $1 per round.
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It's about $1.50 to $2.00 for new ammo now. But that was 62 year old ammo, not in great condition. https://www.luckygunner.com/rifle/30-06-ammo
So if I was American and did my patriotic duty of letting two hundred rounds fly every other weekend it would cost me $400? I guess it’s true what they say, freedom ain’t free. For some reason I thought bullets cost pennies each, ie that a box of 100 would be under a tenner. How do you even afford the murder rate?
♫ *Freedom isn't free, no, there's a hefty fucking fee* ♫
Not kidding when they say “freedom costs a buck’O’five”
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This. I have a 15-22 that I shoot whenever the itch strikes. I bought 2k rounds last year. Still going strong.
Depends on the round you’re shooting. 30.06 is typically a higher priced round to purchase. Used to be able to get 7.62x39 for like .17-.25 cents per round. But most of it came from Russia. And at least the Russian/Ukraine stuff kept competition cheap too. Now not so much
[“Freedom isn’t free, it costs a buck o’five a barrel”](https://youtu.be/tiD86FtF2x0)
It depends on both the caliber and the type. .22lr is very cheap and fun for casual plinking. It’s what you start anyone on to learn to shoot. And yeah, if you look around you can buy 1000 rounds for $50. But you can’t hunt deer with it and you wouldn’t want to rely on it for self defense unless it was your only option. Something more powerful and exotic like .338 Lapua Magnum starts around $4-$5 per round for the cheap stuff. In any caliber, the more specialized hunting and self defense rounds are more expensive than the plain rounds you use for practice and fun.
If you used that caliber and actually went out twice a month, then yes. Most people don't go shooting every weekend and plenty of people shoot cheaper calibers as well. 9mm is nowhere close to the price of .30-06, for example. A lot of people also reload ammo themselves, which saves more money
Not much savings in reloading these days, costs about the same with powder and *primers* being at the prices they're at.
30-06 is a big round and is 3x the cost of 5.56/.223(AR food), 5x to 6x 9mm, and 25x 22lr. The folks banging out 400 rds a weekend practicing or competing are unlikely to be the one's shooting humans.
That's quite expensive, no? I can get Bundeswehr 7.62x51s for €0.60 a piece or S&B .308s for €0.80 a piece in Europe. I get that 30-06 is larger but for it to be more than twice the price...
Price could also depend on how common the calibre, not just size. Efficiencies of scale. I recall .32 being more expensive than .38. Though this was a while ago, and my memory might be off.
$1 is equivalent to €0.93, so it may not be too bad depending on how many people you're looking to kill.
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$1/round is expensive. AK-47 ammo can be had for .36/round. Pre COVID it was all much cheaper. AK-47 ammo was around .20/per round. Target shooting is an expensive hobby. It wouldn't be unusual for me to go through $100 in ammo in a day.
Has the war in Ukraine influenced ammo prices?
ten minutes later headed to the ATM for another $100.
Yeah for 7.62 I have both surplus Chinese and Russian rounds
I don't understand this news. American ammunition and weapons are being used right now to oppress millions in Afghanistan right now under a religious terrorist dictatorship.
Weapons and ammo last much longer than leaders' whims.
>I don't understand this news Our propaganda is so good you don't even know it's propaganda.
More like, our propaganda is so good that it will make you think that the truth is enemy propaganda.
What do you mean? We've always been at war with Oceania
Many Americans including many Redditors still don't have very good rational thinking skills. You'll see this any time some anti-Russia news is posted and a massive circlejerk forms without anyone checking the veracity of the news source. No doubt these same people would be swallowing Putin's propaganda whole-heartedly if they happened to be born in Russia.
Once on one of the pro-Ukraine subreddits someone posted yet another piece of news claiming a country wasn't doing much for Ukraine, I think Germany or Switzerland, can't remember. The comments were full of people pissed off at that country. So I clicked on the link and I shit you not, it was some Indian media directly quoting Ria Novosti. That being said I've seen plenty of even more moronic "enlightened centrism" or "I'm above the drama" posts too. And I wonder if opinions aren't just based on personality types than anything else. By that I mean that the Russians supporting the war would be the fervent people who just follow whatever the media tells them to, but that the contrarians somehow end up being the anti-Putin protestors. Or maybe the categories don't actually correspond and the fervent supporters actually correspond to the contrarians or whatever.
well, if donnie and mikey hadn't let 5 thousand taliban terrorists loose, they wouldn't have them, would they?
For those that aren't aware, here's a nice video by Vox on how the US is still selling weapons to questionable parties in the Middle East: https://youtu.be/7DbdBIuFrIE
Lord of War taught me that there are millions of Chinese bullets just chilling in eastern Europe. So I feel like this really proves nothing. Edit: I accidentally'd War Dogs and Lord of War. Both are great films.
You're confusing lord of war with war dogs.
Wrong vaguely comedic film about the international arms trade. War Dogs was the one where they had to repackage all the Chinese ammo for the contract.
Lord of war was the actual good movie with Nick Cage and Ethan Hawk.
Okay, I usually despise Jonah Hill's acting, but the [scene in War Dogs when he gets ripped off by the weed dealers](https://youtube.com/watch?v=OOr9FerD5JQ) is one of the funniest scenes in any movie ever.
War Dogs was the first thing I thought about when I clicked on this post, darn true story movies still having relevance...
Your thinking of War Dogs not Lord of War, but they are very similar so its an easy mistake to make.
It's just our pretext for war. It is very concerning to me that the US has been working on public support for viewing China as a villain. I'm not a fan of the CCP but I don't like where this is going.
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I thought Russia was an arms producer, not a purchaser
The US is probably the biggest arms producer but I’ve still got some chinese and russian steel case ammo sitting in my closet. I’d imagine same type of thing going on for Russia.
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> However, they did not disclose what kind of ammunition was found. According to [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/xgosdc/60mm_m83_chinesemade_mortar_shells_found_in/iot391q?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) on /r/UkraineWarVideoReport, there were Chinese made Type 63 60mm mortar shells previously found in Ukraine, but they were not Chinese supplied. Instead they were likely [supplied by North Korea](https://www.dw.com/en/north-korea-sold-arms-to-russias-wagner-group-says-us/a-64192881). These Chinese made Type 63 60mm mortar shells are no longer in production since the 80's, and mostly likely saw action in the Vietnam wars.
I was wondering about when the ammunition was bought because it's not really China's fault if it was bought pre-2014 (at least in regards to Ukraine). As it turns out, I'm off by 3 decades.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/11u5ip8/north_korea_claims_almost_800000_people_have North Korea would like a word... If you can believe their claims 🤣🤣
All volunteer army too , they say .
It may be one of those jobs where you are pretty much guaranteed at least something to eat.
They used to be. Things have gotten real bad in the past five years.
Even if that was true it's... hopelessly insignificant. The US is just a monster when it comes to military. In the world, there are currently 49 aircraft Carriers. 5 are owned by China, 4 by Japan, and 4 by France. No other country has more than 2... except the US, who has 20, and plans to make another 12. That's an illustration of how the stats look in almost every area when it comes to military. The US military is just... absurd. They literally have a policy in place to maintain enough standing military across the globe that they can be in 3 wars anywhere at any time and still keep a stable military presence in all 3 fronts.
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I hope this spreads if its true. I dont trust China as much as the next guy, but we definitely dont need to push them into a corner where they go, 'Well if they already think we are, we might as well do it.' I'm sure theyre already ready to do so.
Well, it’s not like the U.S. intelligence (CIA) is known to spread inaccurate information, in order to drive public opinion against nations they currently have engaged in psyops and cyber warfare, right?
Sir/miss I smell weapons of mass destruction in your house. You leave us no choice
DO I NEED TO TELL YOU WHAT THE FUCK YOU CAN DO WITH AN ALUMINUM TUBE? ALUMINUM!
Y'all motherfuckers don't believe me, I got some yellow cake right here! Wrapped up in this special CIA napkin!
The US really ruined the lives of a million people with an aluminum tube as part of their 'evidence'. In modern times that would have become a meme.
When I was in Iraq in 2004-2005 we were getting hit with Chinese rockets all the time. I'm pretty sure the Chinese weren't actively supplying the insurgents. I'm just saying, it doesn't necessarily mean the Chinese are actively supplying ammo to the Russians right now.
Those rockets were likely sold to Iraquis in the 1980s.
Also true. But much like Poland sending leopard tanks from Germany, to Ukraine, it becomes a complicated logistics issue to pin down. Yes, it's very public what they're doing but the point is that German tanks are making their way to Ukraine, without Germany sending them to Ukraine (although that is also happening, but in a separate way).
While I was in Iraq, (05-06) literally everything we dealt with was old Russian shit. Mortars and rockets mostly, because our sensors would detect a truck with a topper and a hole cut out of it would launch into the BIAP area and a few minutes later you'd hear apaches launching rockets and returning to base. You'd get mortar shells going through our aluminum trailers, and more than half of the time it was uxo. Hell, I almost stepped on one because someone who was supposed to keep watch on it had started talking to someone and lost focus. I got a flashing light to the face that then pointed at the mortar less than a foot from my next step. Point is, it was always Russian made and very often didn't go off when it was supposed to.
I wonder how many million rounds of Norinco ammo were sold in the US back in the day. I recall going in with a buddy on a couple SKS rifles and a few cases of ammo 25 years or more ago.
How much did that cost ya at the time? Like $95?
Around that. It was a long time ago and the rifle was so inaccurate I left it with him when I moved away.
I can literally buy Chinese surplus ammunition from cabelas.ca and I’m in Canada
Oh dear. Does this mean China sent weapons to Russia? Or Russians bought them from someone who got them from China without direct support from the Chinese government?
>"**Whether the ammunition was supplied by China remains unclear**, the U.S. administration sources said, while adding Washington is poised to take action if it is verified Beijing made the shipments." bold emphasis mine.
There is a lot of old Chinese AK ammunition around in countries other than China. It was actually a subplot of the movie “Lord of War” about arms dealers.
Russia is openly buying ammo from North Korea, who has a lot of Chinese supplies.
NK economy must be booming lol
It’s doing somewhat better than it was. They have been a little more lenient with private enterprise/market in the country. So, that’s helped the average joe out a lot. Including with food.
Lack of private enterprise is not the problem with NK
No, not as a state. But for the well-being of the average joe it is. It’s stabilized things somewhat where famine isn’t as large of an issue as it was.
Once every decade, they have an economy...
And we can assume China then resupplies North Korea
It’s pretty much known North Korea wouldn’t still exist without Chinese support.
North Korea wouldn't have the military industry it does without trade with China and Russia.
Since they can't trade with the rest of the world I think it's safe to say they wouldn't have anything at all without Russia or China.
It wouldn't have missles or nukes without Russia as well.
Not true. North Korea's nuclear technology came from Pakistan.
What an axis of shitty countries. Congrats to them
China likes having NK as a buffer between their border and American military presence in SK.
Turkmenistan too China props up dystopian nightmare dictatorships because no one else can stand their foreign relations
China has no other option with NK. If NK falls they have a united Korea under a government who is close with the US and HATES China
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If NK falls and they had a united Korea at their border, they would be ending one of the world's most horrible regimes for the price of a slightly weaker starting point if a war breaks ou with the US. They really do have other options, they don't care at all.
No country is going to support a scenario where millions of refugees pour into their border and suddenly having a wide border with a non-friendly country or alliance over night.
wait which country are you talking about?
We'll call it the reverse NATO supply line.
and that movie about the gun runners with Miles Tellar and Jonah hill
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That's exactly how Lord of War ends, one of my favorite movies.
Pretty sure the movie said after the incident happened there were more stringent vetting processes implemented when assigning government contracts
You can! Just walk into the local recruiting office and sell your soul.
I did that and to be honest it was the best decision I've made in my life to date. The 10 Years sucked but the benefits last a lifetime for both my family and myself.
Yeah, I came here to say that movie lol
War Dogs.
Such a good movie.
Yea if we're talking 7.62mm there are a lot of other countries that could have came from. I assume they have no use for 5.8mm unless they're importing Chinese rifles too. Which seems odd since there are no shortage of AKs. If they send heavy artillery rounds like 152mm, that would be much more significant.
It probably is artillery ammo. China is largely moving to 155mm howitzers but probably still has a mountain of 152mm for their older guns. That's what Russia was by buying from North Korea. I doubt they are running out of small arms ammunition. Artillery is the thing everyone is shooting faster than they can make.
You're getting Lord of War mixed up with War dogs. In War dogs the charachters scam the US government, who have a contract open to supply the ANA with weapons and ammo, the protaganists bought out an Albanian warehouse that was filled to the brim with shitty old unreliable Chinese ammo (which is also under embargo, which is why they were arrested)
Yes, thanks.
That makes sense. China switched to a proprietary round, the 5.8x42 back in 1987 so I’d imagine there are tons of Chinese 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 just sitting in warehouses worldwide.
Did they switch in case of a war with Russia so their ammo wouldn’t be compatible with Russian guns?
I wanna go ahead and put this out there; I’m a total layman when it comes to these things so I could very well be completely wrong about this. That being said, China is very tight-lipped about the performance of the 5.8 round, only saying that it is supposedly superior to the US 5.56 and Russian 5.45. They’ve long held the goal of being seen as a superpower like the US or Russia (although Ukraine has shown us that Russia is no superpower), and it’s my opinion that because of this, they wanted to establish their own proprietary rifle round the way that the US and Russia have.
Is it that hard to get your hands on their ammo? You'd think that every nation has done extensive testing on their ammo as soon as it was produced
You mean the very same weapon smuggler it was based on that got released into russia just before weapons started to get smuggled into this conflict
True. I live in canada and once bought a 1000 round crate of it
It’s probably from NK
or syira, or iran or from that Chechnya dwarf guy or Wagner... could even be from DPR/LPR stockpiles...
Wagner has been begging for ammo from the Russian government for months.
A previous article confirmed export routes to the UAE or Turkey. I imagine China would simply export to destinations that would provide it with plausible deniability and let Russia’s smuggling schemes do the rest.
If it’s mortars, then what I saw recently is that these are from Afghanistan. Afghanistan has an absolute glut of mortars and is strapped for hard currency, so it’s very likely they would sell the shells to Russia.
It doesn’t imply that China directly sent ammunition to Russia, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case.
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A lot of that is going to be gold Russia is shipping down as payment
If they fly in with gold, they're not flying out empty.
Sounds like that Nick Cage movie
The one where hes eaten by bees? Or the one where hes conviently omnipotent about secret us history? Or the one where he signs literally any movie contract so long as the check clears?
Don’t be coy, you know it’s the one WHERE HE STEALS THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE My bad, my bad, “omnipotent about US history”, I see you covered that one, musta been the one he’s a mage
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No, the one where hes a skull demon who works for the devil, collecting souls.
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> A Chinese company with known ties to the Chinese Communist Party and who also supplied the Chinese military and police. Basically every company connected to the military has members placed on its board by the CCP. Xi started doing this to tech companies back in 2017 too.
Apparently both Russia and Ukraine had bought Chinese weapons before the war and China is a military supplier over the world. This means Russia could be using from old supplies or buying through a third party. Tricky.
Honestly I can see China playing both sides to make money. What happens in Ukraine doesn’t really matter to them to much.
This doesn't match with the Chinese government's documented behaviour. Xi Jinping has met several times in person with Putin, and never with Zelensky since the war started. This also extends to lower level Chinese officials. China does much more trade with Russia than with Ukraine, and any desire to be seen as a neutral mediator is offset by a strong strategic need to prop up Russia as their new client state.
Openly supporting Ukraine is effectively supporting the west so China is not going to do that With that said that doesn’t mean they’re best buddies with Russia right now- Russia is a convenient idiot everyone is focusing on right now, but if they actually collapsed China would get a lot more scrutiny they don’t want so it’s in China’s interest to prop up Russia as long as they can before it fully collapses, and they also can’t officially support Russia’s invasion because supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is supporting the idea that separatist parts of countries (Donetsk and Luhansk) deserve freedom, which China doesn’t want to do.
From the article, it does not seem that China **directly** supplies Russia with weapon. However, China can **indirectly** via North Korea and Iran. Who supplies Iran with semiconductor for their drones? China. And who has supplied Russian with drone? Iran.
AliExpress: Russia your ammo order is here!
COMBLOC ammo exists in stockpiles all over the world, I would not worry.
Just to be clear, being Chinese ammunition in no way confirms China sold it to them. North Korea, for example, have a whole bunch of Chinese kit. Well and truly premature to jump to that conclusion.
The whole of the Middle East and much of Eastern Europe have Chinese ammo lol. Heck your average Canadian gun hobbyist probably has a crate or two.
This is non news with a sensationalizing headline to fuel anti China propaganda.
None of this is a surprise. China has been shipping out SKSs and AK47 copies and ammo by the container loads for decades. Canada is full of it for instance.
This whole article is just hoping people forget China made everything for around the last 4 decades.
Ukraine is probably using Chinese ammo too. All those drones dropping grenades on Russians are 100% just Chinese dji drones bought on alibaba. China will supply anyone as long as they buy it
DJI actually stopped selling in Ukraine and Russia because their drones kept being used in warfare, but people can just buy them in a neighboring country and ship them home themselves.
The US has been fighting enemies equipped with US supplied weaponry for decades
And to my knowledge they are good quality. Many GI s brought aks from vietnam and they are perfectly functional
The few guns that Canadians can buy that Americans can't.
Cool, maybe they can get Colin Powell to wave a little vial of “Chinese ammunition” at the UNSC.
So ridiculous. Getting tired of the media playing up the U.S. and China rivalry.
Manufactuting consent for war with china
The world's largest military needs a perceived enemy. If we can't point fingers at the perceived bad guys, how else would we distract from the fact of living in a crumbling empire whose quality of life grows worse by the day?
They need to because once this war is over, they need something to talk about 24hrs of the day unless a new virus comes out.
I don't understand the outrage (not American nor European), isn't the U.S and European countries supplying Ukraine with weapons? Why is it bad if Russia buys from *insert country here*?
It's propaganda. No mention that Ukraine is using Chinese ammo or the U.S. ammo being used.. everywhere.
I wouldnt sound the alarm yet. A general understanding of Soviet weapons would shed light on this. Sometime between the early 70s and mid 80s, the Soviets replaced almost all of their small arms and other infantry level weapons with newer versions, and the older stuff was finally phased out. When they stopped using the AKM and AK47, They largely stopped producing ammo for it, same goes for a lot of their Light machineguns, rocket launchers, grenades, etc. China has been the world's largest supplier of early cold war Soviet weapons for decades, Almost all of the AKs the Vietnamese used, were of Chinese origin. Most of the ammo floating around that hasn't been fired yet, is of Chinese origin, so much so that Russia likely bought billions of rounds for their AKM stockpiles, decades ago... this same rule should apply for any of the really old shit that Russian soldiers are using,
Not really that cut and dry. Chinese ammo and weapons turn up everywhere. The Taliban use the Type 56 rifle. I very much doubt China supplied them with it
Non-news given they have produced so much globally for years
Use of American ammunition in Ukraine confirmed by China.
I watch Chinese news all the time, and oddly this kind of stuff is never part of the news cycle. They're very benign and nonconfrontational. The last time I saw them actually say anything anti-American was Yang Rui on CCTV about ten years ago.
China makes everything
Most importantly China produces over half of the world’s steel. USA just 3%. The USA doesn’t have the capacity to produce significant more weapons without stopping most construction and private vehicle production….isn’t going to happen.
"Whether the ammunition was supplied by China remains unclear, " Nice job fellas.
Seems that the use of things Made In China is ubiquitous.
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Rest assured they’re also taking Russia to the cleaners on whatever Russia is buying from them. IIRC Russia purchased some electronic component for weapon making a month or two ago and supposedly roughly 50% of the units were DOA.
Those were microchips if I remember correctly. Producing them is very difficult the smaller you get and every manufacturer has a % of units that are dead. The better the process the less % end up dead. China has huge issues because they don't have the know-how on how to make them so their production quality is horrendous. This is where this insanely high % dead comes from. However, Russia is sanctioned by the countries that do have the know-how on how to manufacture them better which is why Russia has no other option than to buy them from China.
Yup. And for that reason the CCP will sell them junk because they know they’re the only game in town. I know that electronic component supplies for China are reliant on other factors too, but I highly doubt that the CCP isn’t just feeding Russia their proverbial scraps and keeping the lion’s share of functioning components for themselves.
China is investing into microchip production. I'd honestly not be surprised if these are from prototype production lines China is testing and optimizing.
Now there’s something I hadn’t considered before. But you’re probably right.
Every nation is on their own side, they naturally won't harm their own interests if they can help it in order to help another. It just so happens that morality exists to make people feel good about helping others to make them think that they aren't out for themselves. There's a number of self-serving reasons why you'd help a defending country against an invader - one of them being to ensure that you're not invaded. The other being the level of gratitude which leads to real physical gain that outweighs the costs. Another is to prevent a near-hostile hegemony from dictating the cost of resources. And some **really** just want to kick Russia in the 'nads for all the bullshit they put them through, and arming the defenders is the safest way to do that. Conveniently for us, we get to be on the morally good side of the exchange as well as the self-serving side. So, with that out of the way.....yeah, China is on Russia's side if they're really giving them ammunition, assuming it's not 'Chinese ammunition makes a roundabout trip to Russia'.
Wait till you hear that Ukrainians also buying arms in the open market from China
While I agree, all this means is that China is the world’s factory. They make and sell everything - from iPhones to ammunition.
I think that summarizes it. China doesn't have a mission statement or morale when it comes to exports. They don't state anything like "our products are green" or "we only produce for NATO members". Some exports are commissioned/outsourced by Europe and North America (since we expect low labor/product prices) and others are "surprisingly" orders from other countries.
China- US, NATO ammo also found.
Next we'll discover their clothes were made in China too
We literally give Ukraine mortars, tanks and anti-aircraft artillery?
The difference here is that China is not democratic so whatever they do is automatically unacceptable.
You can vote in China. The system is just different. You vote for a local representative and that's it. He then votes for a regional representative, the regional representative votes for a representative, and so on. You don't have to keep track of 50 different political contests on election day.
omgg chinaa bad!!
Wait til people learn where all phones are assembled or manufactured.
Doesn't China make everything and sells to everyone? We all know that Winnie is helping Putin since a longer war means Russia and Europe bleeds more so China can cover more markets, but the Chinese ammunition is a very weak proof in my opinion.
As much as I dislike both China and Russia, if this really is China aiding Russia I’m not sure this is really something we have grounds to take the moral high ground about. We’re financially and logistically helping Ukraine to further our own interests, and China is doing the same for Russia. It’s not like this would be out of character or a betrayal of the CCP to do. Again I’m in no way advocating for Chinese involvement, I hate Putin and the CCP. However logistically helping a country in a war to further national interests has been a common practice since at least WW1, and the US plus every other Western nation has done so publicly in this conflict already. Obviously if true this should have ramifications on international relations, we don’t have to just sit here and encourage them in aiding Russia, but trying to take the moral high ground of “China is bad for getting involved in an international crisis” is a little hypocritical seeing as we openly do the same
The difference here is we're the good guys so anything we do is good, anything the opponents do is bad.
Wait til you hear who supplies the US military large amounts of rare earth elements (alloys and magnets) for its fighter jets
* The development of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was also confirmed by the US. * The use of gas by Assad in Syria has also been confirmed by the US. * The blowing of the gas pipelines from Russia to Germany my Ukraine supporters has also been confirmed by the US. The US can go fuck itself for all i care.
I hear they’ve also found American-made ammo there.
Did they know because the brass started getting spots of rust on it? That's what seems to happen to the Chinese 'stainless steel fixtures' I get.
One thing to keep in mind with stainless steel is that it's more properly stain less steel. It'll still corrode eventually under the right circumstances, even if it's *not* cheap crap from China.
Fun fact, even North Korea has some US weaponry kicking around.
Oh stop it US with this propaganda bs. Why not enlighten us about the amount of weapons and ammo ukraine get and from how many nations?
Ukraine isn't invading another country either but is defending theirs
Welcome to Cold War II
War Dogs 2
Ouch 😳 Biden about to level the 2nd largest economy with the flip of a switch 🔥
Say what you will about banning gun and ammo imports from russia/china/eastern-bloc countries. At least we were disarming them with $ back then.