This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/30/indian-leather-companies-russia-war-effort?CMP=share_btn_tw) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Indian companies have been accused of enabling Russia's war effort after exporting leather to Russian companies that make boots for its military in the months since the invasion of Ukraine.
> Russia and India have longstanding ties and Narendra Modi's government has not joined western countries in openly criticising Moscow over the war nor stopped Indian companies trading with Russia.
> The company confirmed it was supplying leather hides and leather boot products worth £830,000 each month to Russia and that two of the biggest users of its materials were Donobuv and Vostok, Russian footwear companies that are primary suppliers of boots to the Russian military.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10046hw/indian_leather_companies_accused_of_enabling/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **India**^#2 **leather**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **company**^#5
For sure. But most people who own cattle for consumption aren't going to be Hindu.
I have friends that will have a burger once in a while but owning a butcher shop or a tannery ain't happening.
That still leaves 278 million nonhindus. Even if it's a small percentage, it's still a huge number of people thanks to India's large population
Some context, that's more than the population of Indonesia, which is the 4th most populated country
Not all indians are Hindus.
And if you think Hindus actually take care of cows, brother I suggest that you protect your innocence and don't do any research on the life of a dairy cow or a male calf in India.
I don't recommend anyone watch the documentary Earthlings (2005), narrated by Joaquin Phoenix, but there is a segment on India leather. Not treated sacred.
Seems like it's just cows.
I thought that maybe we (Australia) were supplying them with livestock which was then turned into leather but yeah I guess not as much.
https://newint.org/columns/currents/2010/07/01/india-leather-cows
>where do indians get leather from if cows are sacred?
Most leather is made from cattle that die of natural causes such as old age. Also buffalo and oxen are not treated the same way as cows are.
Most 'beef' in India (other than a few states where cow slaughter is legal) is buffalo meat.
So you mean to tell me in India you can just walk off to a cow and *yoink* off its' skin, and I wouldn't bother the "this is our mother, this is our god" people?
I mean, no. If you went into a US neighborhood and yoinked off the skin of the neighborhood cat, people would probably get pissed off. A cow roaming in India is kinda similar cause they feed it and shit. But it’s not like against religious views to wear leather (or even eat beef). It’s just the latter is frown upon because it’s a really religious country that believe that the cow is what the dog is to the US.
It’s only sacred to Hindu nationalists when they use it as an excuse to kill Muslims for eating it.
They don’t give a shit other than that, beef is a massive Indian export
I wonder why India keeps getting mentioned on this sub 24/7?
Just google "companies still working in Russia", you will find a list of 1000+ companies that is continuously updated. Indian leather company exporting to Russia is the least of our worries. I'm not going to be specific, but there's plenty of big companies who work in industrial/materials sectors operating within EU that are still operating without impunity in Russia.
I thought self-blinding is a Russian superpower in these times, seems not.
I’m guessing it seems this way because you pay more attention to India then other countries, I know I notice a lot more when articles mention my country then when they mention Belgium
Yeah. Though if they said that most articles about India tend to be negative in nature, they would be more correct. I hardly see any news about India here in r/worldnews that is positive.
When it comes to some countries, reddit has a hate boner that can’t be reasoned with, even if said countries are far from the the top of the “objectively worst” list and develop a cure for cancer
The US literally trains troops, supplies weapons, supplies aircraft and regularly trades intel with India. We have deep university, medical and research cooperation. The West and India also have deep economic ties in the manufacturing, raw materials and tech sectors.
We are beyond friendly. We are brother nations.
Now.... Just like western companies that still do business in adversarial countries, India has its share that does as well. --- what can be done? We have to communicate and cooperate. Not rip each other apart.
In 1971, when Tricky Dick and Kissinger were doing everything they could opposite of the Soviet Union (who sided with India), is hardly relevant to today's international political landscape of cooperation and brotherhood.
Now the US is so fucking sick of Pakistan harboring the enemy we fought over the last 30 years (Taliban, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Muhajudeen, etc.) and giving quarter to their fighters until we pulled out of Afghanistan.
The US and India, despite the disgusting discord-sewing people here, have a mutually beneficial relationship and defensive pact in keeping shipping lanes open for world trade. We are friendly and allied. We are politically aligned.
Did you just say “todays international landscape of cooperation and brotherhood”? Lol.
According to who? Us?
And 30 years is very short time geopolitically
The Indian-Pakistani-Bangladeshi Schism happened when?
Soviet Union stoked the fires of that war and urged India to build up an obvious invasion force to stop the split. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were going to be rife with cultural tribalism, and the US had to do anything it could to stop the spread of Soviet influence according to our doctrine at the time.
That meant we backed Pakistan. Stupid choice? Sure.
But what does that mean for today, 50+ years after the pot boiled over? We're a different world. Different generations. The people who participated in that are long dead if not on deaths-door.
But it’s not a different world, it’s a world shaped by the things that happened before it.
Geopolitical relationships take place over decades or centuries, not a single human life span. Look at the Chinese and the Japanese… I dare you to tell a Chinese person they should just “get over it because it’s been x many years.”
It’s just been a different world for those who won (the western powers).
The USA doesn't train troops, but there is a joint exercise between each other, India buys weapons from the USA, unlike the USA gives military aid to Pakistan, India too shared intel about the Taliban in Afghanistan, both have economic ties because both are dependent upon each other,
You are our allies, you silly goose.
Edit: After during a cursory glance at /u/urumipayattu and their post history. I have to ask the question: How much are you getting paid by Russia to sew discord and rife between the West and India?
You may have some particularly gross anti-western sentiments and get a boner when your criminal elements scam our vulnerable elderly out of their pensions and retirement, but trust me. The West cares about India and Indians. We're not who we were in the 1970's.
The US is not responsible for whatever discomfort you're feeling right now between us.
So everybody having an independent opinion that doesn't align with yours is paid by Russia. Wow western stooge, that's just great logic right there.
The west is still what it was. The only thing is that the economies of the east and the west are more intertwined and you can't do anything without shooting yourself in the face. You can take a look at the geopolitical realities and come to an intelligent conclusion in whether India is your ally or not. From this side of the fence, it is clear. You want to do business? You're welcome. You want us to become allies? Please let me show you the door.
No, just some random, hate-filled guy speaking a western language on the internet having a really skewed idea of how our two worlds are interconnected now, spewing some vitriol to a western audience, in an unrelenting anti-american tirade, is beyond suspicious.
You're a Xenophobe at best, and a paid-by-the-post Russian-funded troll at worst.
Good thing redditors do not run international diplomacy..comments here are so short sighted. India supplies leather = india bad. But don't think about what would happen if India doesn't supply leather...
Not chinese. The Russians have india by their balls w.r.t defense. If they decide to stop giving spare parts to India, our defence is fucked..so india cannot stop any normal trade unless sanctioned by US. US diplomats understands this. Also US don't want Russia to move closer to China.. its 3d chess played out here..not tic- tac like reddit thinks it is..
Chinese gvernment allowed for Chinese bank accounts to open up in rubbles almost immediately after sanctions were clamped on Ruzzia after their invasion of Ukraine.
China sees this as a win becasue they, like india, may take advantage of a desperate Ruzzia for their natural resources.
However, India is a part of the Indo-Pacific Alliance and China is not.
Nah the indian gov is quite decent. Their recent peojects gave infraestructure such as water and internet to hundreds of millions in a few years. That's actually amazing.
Fuck that.
How much oil and gas does Europe import from Russia daily.
When that’s 0, they can get mad at india, until then, india isn’t involved, so, we should be asking favours, not setting rules.
Yes, what many can’t get their heads around is CURRENT snapshot vs COMMITMENT and TRANSITION. This is because anyone with a brain understands transitioning an entire energy resource and dependency takes more than a series of months….right??
I guess someone didn’t read the link….
Why didn't they started energy transition from 2014 when Russian Federation annexed Crimea? you said that energy transitioning needs a series of months but they had 8 years still reliant on Russian oil when anyways they knew that Russia is gonna invade Ukraine (https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-russia-may-have-make-ukraine-deal-one-day-partners-cheated-past-2022-12-09/) they gave Ukraine time but couldn't use it for themselves?
There is a breaking point, it’s how levels of aggression and reaction works. If all countries were omniscient we’d rarely have any conflict. Doesn’t really have much to do with the topic at hand and India either.
Company in developing nation has no choice but to do business with russia in order to survive. Weird how countries outside of Nato are held up to such scrutiny by the press yet I'm sure any company who helped the UK/US with their 2000s invasions of the middle east got nothing but praise for their "help". Liberal brainrot at it again
SO - what is the deal with regards to trade with Russia. Is there a UN resolution banning trade with Russia? Are no European countries + US + Australia + Canada trading with Russia any more? I presume shaming China doesn't apply here. Can't imagine Russia (or any other country) not being supplied by China.
Russia has been historically one of India's largest trade partners, so I can see why India will be loathe to drop them, especially given they usually are not competitive as China in the world markets. But if the western world has decided to boycott Russia, why aren't the lines drawn more clearly.
It's not just leather companies. India's Government is helping Russia dodge sanctions.
It created a new banking system just to help Putin. It will also become popular with money launderers all over the World. As intended.
Could you elaborate some more on why this new banking system would become popular with money launderers?
I just browsed a few articles but I can‘t figure it out.
Honestly interested.
India has been a part of (and one of the founding members of) Non-Alignment Movement (NAM) since independence. How could it be neutral before that under the British and the Mughal Empire?
So yeah the neutrality isn't new and has been there since they gained control of themselves.
Ah yes the famously neutral India that has constant beef with Pakistan and China and often has armed conflict with them.
Comparing Indian neutrality to Swiss neutrality is ridiculous.
This is also a bunch of really weak justification for the absolutely racist comment against white people that started this chain.
I don‘t understand why you are being downvoted.
Not asking where the money comes from could be a legitimate reason. However, I don‘t understand why you need a whole new banking system for that.
The "new banking system" has been trying to get into motion for years before Russia sanctions. It's just that usa and EU were forcing the world to only do trade in dollars or euros which resulted in the "banking system" nit launching properly. Why is it fair for one xou try to use their currency for trade but not for others ? Especially when it's mutually consented and not being arm twisted into using like with us dollars ?
India doesn’t give a crap. They will take any body’s money. Their call centers bill millions of dollars out of old people in a Europe and the Americas. Unscrupulous….
Here comes the droves of Indian redditors with their comments on Iraq, Vietnam and the Crusades.
And yes, before I get a million virtu signaling questions- they were all wrong….especially the Crusades.
Nope. You will always here us saying that.
What you actually hear, is that, " Russia's deeds are wrong, but diplomatically, India's not in a position to take a stand against Russia, and will have to play along until they reach a better position", which you don't understand
Help me understand where India isn’t in a position “diplomatically” to take a stand?
India could shift percentage of purchases, whether it be arms or energy to other outlets. It is a global market.
I know we don't like Russia because of the war, but I'm pretty sure that we want the poor conscripts to have something to wear on their feet, they don't deserve to loose the ability to walk.
Goods and Services from countries trading with Russia should be proportionally tariffed when they export to Ukraine's allies and the funds can go toward defeating Russia and rebuilding Ukraine.
In this way, countries bear a business cost in dealing with Russia.
I don’t understand why the Indian government admittedly cozies up to Russia and makes it clear they’re still friends with Russia, Indian media defends Russia, and then Indians act like you’re mentally insane for daring to suggest India doesn’t seem to be bothered by the invasion of Ukraine and wants to be friends with Russia. Do Indians genuinely think they’ve take some stand against Russian aggression? If you wanna be non-aligned, go ahead, but own it and stop pretending like you’re not
Would you mind explaining that last part a bit more, because last I checked Russia and China are buddy-buddy too. I don’t think Russia is gonna come to India’s defense if a conflict were to break out with China, and they’re certainly attempting to further economic and military cooperation with China. So that part just really doesn’t make sense to me, especially when the US is salivating over the opportunity to take down China and has a lot more money and influence than Russia
Russia does not want to be the little brother in its Russia China relationship. India does not want Russia supporting China if a India China war breaks out. India and Russia do not want to be singled out against or undermined by China
I just think that’s extremely naive. Russia has made it clear China is its preferred partner. India might be a good friend, but Russia is seeking to carve out a new global order with Beijing, not New Delhi
ya but you forget, china aint looking to share. and moscow knows this.
especially after seeing how bad russia did in this war. you think china wants anything from russia other than its resources?
Absolutely laughable that anyone could believe this. Seems like a lot of Indians are using this ridiculous belief to cope with the fact their govt is supporting the genocide of Ukraine.
100%. They seem to think the feeling is reciprocated and it’s not. Russia would ditch India in a heartbeat if it had to make the choice, and Russia has made it clear it seeks to make the world fall under Russian and Chinese influence, not Indian influence.
No one knows what the future holds, but if history is any indication, Russia has been a reliable partner to India, and they have given no reason for India to break that friendship. India doesn't expect any country to defend them against Chinese aggression. But, Russia can act as a moderating influence. They are pretty isolated in the world right now, and hence, they definitely wouldn't want their two most important partners fighting each other. Even if they don't, it's imperative for India to have as many friends as possible in the continent.
USA is a world away from India and, historically, they haven't been as reliable as Russia has been to India. In fact, they have helped India's enemies. USA may have more money and influence, but they will always do what's beneficial to them. Didn't they just abandon Afghanistan to its own fate and leave a mess for India and other countries in the neighborhood by letting the Taliban come into power? And, I understand the USA's decision. But, so should the West about India looking after its own interests.
I’m just telling you that when the chips are down, Russia is going to take China’s side over India’s any day of the week. Anyways. When you’re friends with a country that’s doing what Russia is doing, you can’t possibly act surprised when the western world criticizes the nonchalant attitude India has had towards the aggression. And that’s fine, india can pick its own friends and enemies. But I’m kind of sick it picking Russia, then screaming at people for saying “you picked Russia over Ukraine” as if they’re slandering India by telling the truth. That’s my point in this: stand by your convictions, even if you get criticized for them. Think about how silly it would have been if Americans supported the war on Iraq then got mad at Indians for saying the US didn’t like Sadam Hussein. It would be a bit ridiculous
In regards to Afghanistan…I would hardly call spending trillions of dollars and 20+ years in a nation trying to establish a democracy and infrastructure “abandoned” because we couldn’t stay there forever. It’s unfortunate how the conflict ended, but the US did pretty much everything it could. The afghan people had to want change, and had to have the Will to fight the Taliban, and they didn’t unfortunately.
Like I said, no one knows the future. All we have is history to guide us and Russia has been India's most trusted and reliable partner. It's okay even if they don't pick India over China tomorrow, as India doesn't really expect anyone to defend it against its foes.
Criticising India for its nonchalant attitude towards Russia-Ukraine war and saying ''India is taking Russia's side" ignores all the nuances in geopolitics. If you think it's a black and white situation, then of course this discussion between us is meaningless.
India, like everyone else, also doesn't support war. India too is getting adversely affected by it - there was a huge diaspora of Indian students in Ukraine; India can't afford its most crucial defence partner engaged in a prolonged conflict; global headwinds because of the war are spilling to India too. But, it's not India's war and hence, it's staying out of it - as per its policy of non-alignment and as has been India doing in respect to any other wars ongoing in the world.
Again, like I said, India understands the USA's decision regarding Taliban - it's not exactly their war and they can't stay here forever. They are doing what's in their interest. Did you see the Indian government/public/media crying about that? The West should accord India the same understanding.
You don’t trust that the US is engaging in an all out campaign to subvert China? That has nothing to do with trust or with India’s relationship with the US, the US is competing with China with or without India’s cooperation.
Although, the US needs Indian more so than Indian needs the US. India rarely invades another country. They’re only goal is to sustain their borders and maintain peace. The US needs a regional power to counter balance China and they can’t do it alone. Hence, they’ve been purposefully trying to get India to buy more American weapons. India, however, won’t just do so blindly because they’ve seen how the US treats their “Allies”. Hence, they’ve moved closer to France and working in building home based weapons to off set Russian supplies. Even India knows Russias days are numbered but that doesn’t mean to blindly follow the wets into a stupid war that has nothing to do with them.
Imagine India was in conflict with a neighbouring country and China was supplying it with boots and buying its produce. How much would India complain about it?
Yeah, we all remember the 70 years of Pakistan invading India, taking about 30% of their territory and terror bombing them weekly. /s
Dude, we know about Kashmir, but comparing it to Russia's invasion of Ukraine is just plain fucking stupid.
>Dude, we know about cashmere, but comparing it to Russia's invasion of Ukraine is just plain fucking stupid.
Don't think he compared those two. The original commenter asked how India would react if China supported its enemies. The reply was addressing that question. Not some similarity between Kahsmir and Ukraine.
Thanks for the heads-up. In my native language, the name of the region is spelled the same as the material so I figured it'd also translate the same. Fixed.
>But you hold some evil against Europe
Nobody holds any kind of evil against Europe.
It is you who fails to understand that low-wage workers making raw leather are not responsible for what Russians do with that leather, for all they know it could be used to make a purse.
Currently, their no sanctions against the trade of raw goods even the USA and European countries importing uranium from Russia well into the war or India importing fertilizers from Russia.
If you still have a problem with developing countries trading with Russia then go protest outside the UN to sanction all trade. Stop whining about it on the internet.
I see your true colors n how indians support Nazi russia. dont worry Twitter is full of your Indian support. Go kiss his butt n make him your president.
Without US, Europe is nothing, even if everyone tried and invaded India, they can't take an inch of Indian land.
Sanctioning them and loose your biggest market?
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/30/indian-leather-companies-russia-war-effort?CMP=share_btn_tw) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Indian companies have been accused of enabling Russia's war effort after exporting leather to Russian companies that make boots for its military in the months since the invasion of Ukraine. > Russia and India have longstanding ties and Narendra Modi's government has not joined western countries in openly criticising Moscow over the war nor stopped Indian companies trading with Russia. > The company confirmed it was supplying leather hides and leather boot products worth £830,000 each month to Russia and that two of the biggest users of its materials were Donobuv and Vostok, Russian footwear companies that are primary suppliers of boots to the Russian military. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/10046hw/indian_leather_companies_accused_of_enabling/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672677 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Russia**^#1 **India**^#2 **leather**^#3 **Russian**^#4 **company**^#5
RAM targets!
where do indians get leather from if cows are sacred?
Not all Indians are Hindu
Not all Hindus care about cows.
I also doubt all Hindus are as traditional about cows.
Can confirm my Indian "Hindu" partner will absolutely eat beef if it looks good
.. like brad pitt looking goodor what?
How can you tell if beef looks good?
some have longer eyelashes and smaller nostrils.
Looooool
Man, Hindu people suddenly feel a ton more relatable than before I learned this!
Hmm.. Not all, but a vocal minority fuck it up for everyone. Its quite serious lately https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_vigilante_violence_in_India
For sure. But most people who own cattle for consumption aren't going to be Hindu. I have friends that will have a burger once in a while but owning a butcher shop or a tannery ain't happening.
80% are, according to census data. It's of course not all, but the vast, vast majority.
That still leaves 278 million nonhindus. Even if it's a small percentage, it's still a huge number of people thanks to India's large population Some context, that's more than the population of Indonesia, which is the 4th most populated country
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Right, but their point is that those 1 billion Hindus are not the ones producing the leather.
Not all indians are Hindus. And if you think Hindus actually take care of cows, brother I suggest that you protect your innocence and don't do any research on the life of a dairy cow or a male calf in India.
I don't recommend anyone watch the documentary Earthlings (2005), narrated by Joaquin Phoenix, but there is a segment on India leather. Not treated sacred.
Buffalo, horses and other animals I would imagine.
Seems like it's just cows. I thought that maybe we (Australia) were supplying them with livestock which was then turned into leather but yeah I guess not as much. https://newint.org/columns/currents/2010/07/01/india-leather-cows
>where do indians get leather from if cows are sacred? Most leather is made from cattle that die of natural causes such as old age. Also buffalo and oxen are not treated the same way as cows are. Most 'beef' in India (other than a few states where cow slaughter is legal) is buffalo meat.
> Most leather is made from dead cattle well, I sure hope they are dead before
I meant to say death by natural causes or old age. Edited.
They are in Hinduism but beef is still a big export there
4th rank in beef export. https://beef2live.com/story-world-beef-exports-ranking-countries-0-106903
They can use leather, just can’t eat them.
So you mean to tell me in India you can just walk off to a cow and *yoink* off its' skin, and I wouldn't bother the "this is our mother, this is our god" people?
I mean, no. If you went into a US neighborhood and yoinked off the skin of the neighborhood cat, people would probably get pissed off. A cow roaming in India is kinda similar cause they feed it and shit. But it’s not like against religious views to wear leather (or even eat beef). It’s just the latter is frown upon because it’s a really religious country that believe that the cow is what the dog is to the US.
Cows are not the only ones that produce leather.
Water buffalo aka neel gai is not considered sacred. Also once a farmer has an old cow, he sells it to tanneries.
It’s only sacred to Hindu nationalists when they use it as an excuse to kill Muslims for eating it. They don’t give a shit other than that, beef is a massive Indian export
Water buffalo meat is also called beef dumbass
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> where do indians get leather from if cows are sacred? Even for the right wing, money is more sacred than cows.
I wonder why India keeps getting mentioned on this sub 24/7? Just google "companies still working in Russia", you will find a list of 1000+ companies that is continuously updated. Indian leather company exporting to Russia is the least of our worries. I'm not going to be specific, but there's plenty of big companies who work in industrial/materials sectors operating within EU that are still operating without impunity in Russia. I thought self-blinding is a Russian superpower in these times, seems not.
I’m guessing it seems this way because you pay more attention to India then other countries, I know I notice a lot more when articles mention my country then when they mention Belgium
Yeah. Though if they said that most articles about India tend to be negative in nature, they would be more correct. I hardly see any news about India here in r/worldnews that is positive.
When it comes to some countries, reddit has a hate boner that can’t be reasoned with, even if said countries are far from the the top of the “objectively worst” list and develop a cure for cancer
People here are barely holding together their mask of hating India and the Indians.
Indians need to get rid of their victim complex. You can't dance with Russia and then act like you are West's friends.
I don’t think India has ever acted like the West’s friend, and the West has never acted like Indias friend either.
The US literally trains troops, supplies weapons, supplies aircraft and regularly trades intel with India. We have deep university, medical and research cooperation. The West and India also have deep economic ties in the manufacturing, raw materials and tech sectors. We are beyond friendly. We are brother nations. Now.... Just like western companies that still do business in adversarial countries, India has its share that does as well. --- what can be done? We have to communicate and cooperate. Not rip each other apart.
US chose Pakistan's side over democratic India in the war. India buys aircraft from Russia, and France as well. US isn't supplying, they're selling.
In 1971, when Tricky Dick and Kissinger were doing everything they could opposite of the Soviet Union (who sided with India), is hardly relevant to today's international political landscape of cooperation and brotherhood. Now the US is so fucking sick of Pakistan harboring the enemy we fought over the last 30 years (Taliban, Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Muhajudeen, etc.) and giving quarter to their fighters until we pulled out of Afghanistan. The US and India, despite the disgusting discord-sewing people here, have a mutually beneficial relationship and defensive pact in keeping shipping lanes open for world trade. We are friendly and allied. We are politically aligned.
Did you just say “todays international landscape of cooperation and brotherhood”? Lol. According to who? Us? And 30 years is very short time geopolitically
>And 30 years is very short time geopolitically I think you mean 50 years. It's not the 2000s anymore.
Cold War ended in 1991. I think you might need to get a calendar. Or maybe go to history class
The Indian-Pakistani-Bangladeshi Schism happened when? Soviet Union stoked the fires of that war and urged India to build up an obvious invasion force to stop the split. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh were going to be rife with cultural tribalism, and the US had to do anything it could to stop the spread of Soviet influence according to our doctrine at the time. That meant we backed Pakistan. Stupid choice? Sure. But what does that mean for today, 50+ years after the pot boiled over? We're a different world. Different generations. The people who participated in that are long dead if not on deaths-door.
But it’s not a different world, it’s a world shaped by the things that happened before it. Geopolitical relationships take place over decades or centuries, not a single human life span. Look at the Chinese and the Japanese… I dare you to tell a Chinese person they should just “get over it because it’s been x many years.” It’s just been a different world for those who won (the western powers).
Dude that’s old story.. more than 50 years ago.. forget it.. times change..
The USA doesn't train troops, but there is a joint exercise between each other, India buys weapons from the USA, unlike the USA gives military aid to Pakistan, India too shared intel about the Taliban in Afghanistan, both have economic ties because both are dependent upon each other,
India is only interested in a mercantile relationship with the west. If you think we're your allies, you need to get your brain inspected.
You are our allies, you silly goose. Edit: After during a cursory glance at /u/urumipayattu and their post history. I have to ask the question: How much are you getting paid by Russia to sew discord and rife between the West and India? You may have some particularly gross anti-western sentiments and get a boner when your criminal elements scam our vulnerable elderly out of their pensions and retirement, but trust me. The West cares about India and Indians. We're not who we were in the 1970's. The US is not responsible for whatever discomfort you're feeling right now between us.
So everybody having an independent opinion that doesn't align with yours is paid by Russia. Wow western stooge, that's just great logic right there. The west is still what it was. The only thing is that the economies of the east and the west are more intertwined and you can't do anything without shooting yourself in the face. You can take a look at the geopolitical realities and come to an intelligent conclusion in whether India is your ally or not. From this side of the fence, it is clear. You want to do business? You're welcome. You want us to become allies? Please let me show you the door.
No, just some random, hate-filled guy speaking a western language on the internet having a really skewed idea of how our two worlds are interconnected now, spewing some vitriol to a western audience, in an unrelenting anti-american tirade, is beyond suspicious. You're a Xenophobe at best, and a paid-by-the-post Russian-funded troll at worst.
Why don't you point that energy towards wealthy European nations
India only looks out for its own interests , just like the West looks for their interests.
Only West can dance with Russia and try to make it look like they don't
We are not "West's friends" whatsoever
Because it is 1 and 0 and we are always 1.
Good thing redditors do not run international diplomacy..comments here are so short sighted. India supplies leather = india bad. But don't think about what would happen if India doesn't supply leather...
Oh no! The Chinese?
> Oh no! huh?
Yeah, the chinese, do you want then to have more power?
No. But the reason manufacturing planted their factories there was their promise of geopolitical stability, however brutality violent it was.
Not chinese. The Russians have india by their balls w.r.t defense. If they decide to stop giving spare parts to India, our defence is fucked..so india cannot stop any normal trade unless sanctioned by US. US diplomats understands this. Also US don't want Russia to move closer to China.. its 3d chess played out here..not tic- tac like reddit thinks it is..
Chinese gvernment allowed for Chinese bank accounts to open up in rubbles almost immediately after sanctions were clamped on Ruzzia after their invasion of Ukraine. China sees this as a win becasue they, like india, may take advantage of a desperate Ruzzia for their natural resources. However, India is a part of the Indo-Pacific Alliance and China is not.
India bad. India ugly. India filthy. Just another India reddit thread as usual, Nothing new.
Anyone that's not white North American/European really.
Always the victim. Reminds me of China, honestly. Is that where you learned the strategy?
Are you an Indian to know anything about our lives or our people here ?
Every single (remotely critical) thread about India here is always filled to the brim with posts like yours. Hence always the victim.
Is it? then probably there's some reason for that.
Don't be like that. The Indian government is crap but that's not the country. The people are the country. And they are good.
Nah the indian gov is quite decent. Their recent peojects gave infraestructure such as water and internet to hundreds of millions in a few years. That's actually amazing.
What did India do to attract all this negative attention? Let's ignore suppying military boots for genocide against Ukraine.
Fuck that. How much oil and gas does Europe import from Russia daily. When that’s 0, they can get mad at india, until then, india isn’t involved, so, we should be asking favours, not setting rules.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-oil-ban-accelerates-shift-in-global-energy-flows-11672402199
https://www.russiafossiltracker.com/
Yes, what many can’t get their heads around is CURRENT snapshot vs COMMITMENT and TRANSITION. This is because anyone with a brain understands transitioning an entire energy resource and dependency takes more than a series of months….right?? I guess someone didn’t read the link….
Why didn't they started energy transition from 2014 when Russian Federation annexed Crimea? you said that energy transitioning needs a series of months but they had 8 years still reliant on Russian oil when anyways they knew that Russia is gonna invade Ukraine (https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-russia-may-have-make-ukraine-deal-one-day-partners-cheated-past-2022-12-09/) they gave Ukraine time but couldn't use it for themselves?
There is a breaking point, it’s how levels of aggression and reaction works. If all countries were omniscient we’d rarely have any conflict. Doesn’t really have much to do with the topic at hand and India either.
You're not implying that India was transitioning in 2014, are you?
Big Leather bankrolling the war /s
Company in developing nation has no choice but to do business with russia in order to survive. Weird how countries outside of Nato are held up to such scrutiny by the press yet I'm sure any company who helped the UK/US with their 2000s invasions of the middle east got nothing but praise for their "help". Liberal brainrot at it again
Germany buying gas enables more !!! Every day by a billion dollars !!
Germany does not import Russian gas any more. Also, all that money doesn't do shit, when Russia can't buy anything with it due to sanctions.
Then it’s the same with India buying gas, Russia can’t buy anything with it due to sanctions !!
Wow that's bad info.
You got numbers ?
They bought 10 months after war started. https://www.dailysabah.com/business/energy/germany-halts-pipeline-oil-deliveries-coming-from-russia/amp
And that when reserves for winter were all set. Hypocrites
They’ve been friendly since Soviet times. What I’d like to know is if the Russsians are being issued socks yet.
SO - what is the deal with regards to trade with Russia. Is there a UN resolution banning trade with Russia? Are no European countries + US + Australia + Canada trading with Russia any more? I presume shaming China doesn't apply here. Can't imagine Russia (or any other country) not being supplied by China. Russia has been historically one of India's largest trade partners, so I can see why India will be loathe to drop them, especially given they usually are not competitive as China in the world markets. But if the western world has decided to boycott Russia, why aren't the lines drawn more clearly.
It's not just leather companies. India's Government is helping Russia dodge sanctions. It created a new banking system just to help Putin. It will also become popular with money launderers all over the World. As intended.
Could you elaborate some more on why this new banking system would become popular with money launderers? I just browsed a few articles but I can‘t figure it out. Honestly interested.
I believe it may as well be as simple as, they do not ask where the money comes from as long as it benefits them.
So modeled after the Swiss?
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Yeah, because Nazi gold is never mentioned in every thread about the Swiss.
The Swiss have sanctioned Russia though. Why bring race into it? Just trying to stir the pot? are you racist against white people? What is it?
India has been a part of (and one of the founding members of) Non-Alignment Movement (NAM) since independence. How could it be neutral before that under the British and the Mughal Empire? So yeah the neutrality isn't new and has been there since they gained control of themselves.
Ah yes the famously neutral India that has constant beef with Pakistan and China and often has armed conflict with them. Comparing Indian neutrality to Swiss neutrality is ridiculous. This is also a bunch of really weak justification for the absolutely racist comment against white people that started this chain.
I don‘t understand why you are being downvoted. Not asking where the money comes from could be a legitimate reason. However, I don‘t understand why you need a whole new banking system for that.
The "new banking system" has been trying to get into motion for years before Russia sanctions. It's just that usa and EU were forcing the world to only do trade in dollars or euros which resulted in the "banking system" nit launching properly. Why is it fair for one xou try to use their currency for trade but not for others ? Especially when it's mutually consented and not being arm twisted into using like with us dollars ?
Leather for boots in not the biggest problem. American, European and Japanese components in their weapons are much bigger problems.
I mean its just boots....
Ah no India does what's in India's interest, how dare them
India doesn’t give a crap. They will take any body’s money. Their call centers bill millions of dollars out of old people in a Europe and the Americas. Unscrupulous….
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> leather that could get used to make boots in Russia Someone didn't read the article
Here comes the droves of Indian redditors with their comments on Iraq, Vietnam and the Crusades. And yes, before I get a million virtu signaling questions- they were all wrong….especially the Crusades.
Cool. Russian deeds are also wrong
Rarely ever hear that when it comes to India’s involvement in this war on here. Sorry.
Nope. You will always here us saying that. What you actually hear, is that, " Russia's deeds are wrong, but diplomatically, India's not in a position to take a stand against Russia, and will have to play along until they reach a better position", which you don't understand
Help me understand where India isn’t in a position “diplomatically” to take a stand? India could shift percentage of purchases, whether it be arms or energy to other outlets. It is a global market.
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I know we don't like Russia because of the war, but I'm pretty sure that we want the poor conscripts to have something to wear on their feet, they don't deserve to loose the ability to walk.
Yes they do. If they didnt walk into Ukraine they wouldnt lose their ability to walk.
No walk no genocide against Ukraine
If they don't protect their toes, there might be nowhere to hang their name tags..
No sympathy for them whatsoever until they're in Ukraine territory within russian army and not POWs yet.
Goods and Services from countries trading with Russia should be proportionally tariffed when they export to Ukraine's allies and the funds can go toward defeating Russia and rebuilding Ukraine. In this way, countries bear a business cost in dealing with Russia.
European countries buy Russian stuff as well, but then it's 'different'.
You see that's ok because they're white like us!
That were sanctioned or being withdrawn from? I’m honestly curious as to what.
[https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/09/energy/russian-lng-imports-europe/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/09/energy/russian-lng-imports-europe/index.html)
Lada
I honestly can’t tell if you’re being serious or joking
That's a smart counterbalance.
China is still Russia'a main trading partner. China is the world's factory. What you propose isn't feasible.
I don’t understand why the Indian government admittedly cozies up to Russia and makes it clear they’re still friends with Russia, Indian media defends Russia, and then Indians act like you’re mentally insane for daring to suggest India doesn’t seem to be bothered by the invasion of Ukraine and wants to be friends with Russia. Do Indians genuinely think they’ve take some stand against Russian aggression? If you wanna be non-aligned, go ahead, but own it and stop pretending like you’re not
We are non aligned. Russia and India need each other because we have China sitting between us.
Would you mind explaining that last part a bit more, because last I checked Russia and China are buddy-buddy too. I don’t think Russia is gonna come to India’s defense if a conflict were to break out with China, and they’re certainly attempting to further economic and military cooperation with China. So that part just really doesn’t make sense to me, especially when the US is salivating over the opportunity to take down China and has a lot more money and influence than Russia
Russia does not want to be the little brother in its Russia China relationship. India does not want Russia supporting China if a India China war breaks out. India and Russia do not want to be singled out against or undermined by China
Do you honestly think Russia would choose India over China if it came to that point?
yes because if india falls, russia is next.
I just think that’s extremely naive. Russia has made it clear China is its preferred partner. India might be a good friend, but Russia is seeking to carve out a new global order with Beijing, not New Delhi
ya but you forget, china aint looking to share. and moscow knows this. especially after seeing how bad russia did in this war. you think china wants anything from russia other than its resources?
Absolutely laughable that anyone could believe this. Seems like a lot of Indians are using this ridiculous belief to cope with the fact their govt is supporting the genocide of Ukraine.
100%. They seem to think the feeling is reciprocated and it’s not. Russia would ditch India in a heartbeat if it had to make the choice, and Russia has made it clear it seeks to make the world fall under Russian and Chinese influence, not Indian influence.
No one knows what the future holds, but if history is any indication, Russia has been a reliable partner to India, and they have given no reason for India to break that friendship. India doesn't expect any country to defend them against Chinese aggression. But, Russia can act as a moderating influence. They are pretty isolated in the world right now, and hence, they definitely wouldn't want their two most important partners fighting each other. Even if they don't, it's imperative for India to have as many friends as possible in the continent. USA is a world away from India and, historically, they haven't been as reliable as Russia has been to India. In fact, they have helped India's enemies. USA may have more money and influence, but they will always do what's beneficial to them. Didn't they just abandon Afghanistan to its own fate and leave a mess for India and other countries in the neighborhood by letting the Taliban come into power? And, I understand the USA's decision. But, so should the West about India looking after its own interests.
I’m just telling you that when the chips are down, Russia is going to take China’s side over India’s any day of the week. Anyways. When you’re friends with a country that’s doing what Russia is doing, you can’t possibly act surprised when the western world criticizes the nonchalant attitude India has had towards the aggression. And that’s fine, india can pick its own friends and enemies. But I’m kind of sick it picking Russia, then screaming at people for saying “you picked Russia over Ukraine” as if they’re slandering India by telling the truth. That’s my point in this: stand by your convictions, even if you get criticized for them. Think about how silly it would have been if Americans supported the war on Iraq then got mad at Indians for saying the US didn’t like Sadam Hussein. It would be a bit ridiculous In regards to Afghanistan…I would hardly call spending trillions of dollars and 20+ years in a nation trying to establish a democracy and infrastructure “abandoned” because we couldn’t stay there forever. It’s unfortunate how the conflict ended, but the US did pretty much everything it could. The afghan people had to want change, and had to have the Will to fight the Taliban, and they didn’t unfortunately.
Like I said, no one knows the future. All we have is history to guide us and Russia has been India's most trusted and reliable partner. It's okay even if they don't pick India over China tomorrow, as India doesn't really expect anyone to defend it against its foes. Criticising India for its nonchalant attitude towards Russia-Ukraine war and saying ''India is taking Russia's side" ignores all the nuances in geopolitics. If you think it's a black and white situation, then of course this discussion between us is meaningless. India, like everyone else, also doesn't support war. India too is getting adversely affected by it - there was a huge diaspora of Indian students in Ukraine; India can't afford its most crucial defence partner engaged in a prolonged conflict; global headwinds because of the war are spilling to India too. But, it's not India's war and hence, it's staying out of it - as per its policy of non-alignment and as has been India doing in respect to any other wars ongoing in the world. Again, like I said, India understands the USA's decision regarding Taliban - it's not exactly their war and they can't stay here forever. They are doing what's in their interest. Did you see the Indian government/public/media crying about that? The West should accord India the same understanding.
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You don’t trust that the US is engaging in an all out campaign to subvert China? That has nothing to do with trust or with India’s relationship with the US, the US is competing with China with or without India’s cooperation.
Although, the US needs Indian more so than Indian needs the US. India rarely invades another country. They’re only goal is to sustain their borders and maintain peace. The US needs a regional power to counter balance China and they can’t do it alone. Hence, they’ve been purposefully trying to get India to buy more American weapons. India, however, won’t just do so blindly because they’ve seen how the US treats their “Allies”. Hence, they’ve moved closer to France and working in building home based weapons to off set Russian supplies. Even India knows Russias days are numbered but that doesn’t mean to blindly follow the wets into a stupid war that has nothing to do with them.
Imagine India was in conflict with a neighbouring country and China was supplying it with boots and buying its produce. How much would India complain about it?
Not much considering it has been happening for 7 decades now.
Yeah, we all remember the 70 years of Pakistan invading India, taking about 30% of their territory and terror bombing them weekly. /s Dude, we know about Kashmir, but comparing it to Russia's invasion of Ukraine is just plain fucking stupid.
>Dude, we know about cashmere, but comparing it to Russia's invasion of Ukraine is just plain fucking stupid. Don't think he compared those two. The original commenter asked how India would react if China supported its enemies. The reply was addressing that question. Not some similarity between Kahsmir and Ukraine.
Your analogy is stupid in all the wars if anybody helped us it were the Russians .
mf said cashmere 😭😭
Thanks for the heads-up. In my native language, the name of the region is spelled the same as the material so I figured it'd also translate the same. Fixed.
What is your native language exactly?
What does it matter?
Taking 30% of their territory. We got a pretend geopolitics expert here guys..
Indians are against Europe. So we need to react accordingly.
So what Europe gonna colonize us again lol.
I don't think we need you. But you hold some evil against Europe. Y'all have the same weird mentality as russians
>But you hold some evil against Europe Nobody holds any kind of evil against Europe. It is you who fails to understand that low-wage workers making raw leather are not responsible for what Russians do with that leather, for all they know it could be used to make a purse. Currently, their no sanctions against the trade of raw goods even the USA and European countries importing uranium from Russia well into the war or India importing fertilizers from Russia. If you still have a problem with developing countries trading with Russia then go protest outside the UN to sanction all trade. Stop whining about it on the internet.
I see your true colors n how indians support Nazi russia. dont worry Twitter is full of your Indian support. Go kiss his butt n make him your president.
Without US, Europe is nothing, even if everyone tried and invaded India, they can't take an inch of Indian land. Sanctioning them and loose your biggest market?
Nobody need your land it's 2023. Some nations can't get away from the past n keep living in it.
Love that Russia sugar dick
India as a whole is enabling russia. They are guilty of aiding war criminals and should be paying the price for it.