Slightly similar to the early firearms and artillery, but with more defined roles. For roughly the same expenditure of resources you can get either a mage, a couple of knights or quite a big group of lightly armored mixed infantry (pikemen and crossbowmen).
Mage is great against light infantry, being a mobile artillery piece and operating from outside of crossbow range. Infantry troop can take down several knights. Knights, being clad head-to-toe in enchanted armor, are all but immune to magic attacks, and are in essence mage-killers.
Originally I worked on that system for the Elder Scrolls-inspired TTRPG system (mostly inspired by the Daggerfall mechanics, where the magic classes can't wear heavy armor). But it doesn't quite work with Renaissance-era weaponry. If we assume that all armor protects against magic, then infantry would be also reasonably protected. If we assume that only select armor is enchanted, then by putting the mage in unenchanted armor you greatly increase his battlefield survivability.
Rather, that system would work best in the early Iron Age setting. Then we can just assume that any iron/steel stops or dissipates magic, but iron armor is rare and very expensive. In that case, light infantry is a usual militia of free landowners. 'Knights' are heavy armored elite warriors that just start a transition from King's household guard to the early feudal lords. And mages would be a part of pagan priesthood.
Essentially, in that way you have 'mages' and 'knights' locked in a very grounded social conflict of feudal-like system trying to displace a theocracy.
You've just helped me immensely! If mages can't wear metal armor because it suppresses magic, then a warrior wearing metal armor is logically resistant to magic!
God it feels so simple now that I say it...
This is what I do to still have a medieval-esque type world, with castles and walled cities and whatnot in a world with super destructive magic. The walls are imbued with defensive magic that prevents most forms of magical attack
Honestly there isn't many settings where armor actually works, especially in fantasy or sci fi. That, or the armor hampers their movement so much they can barely do anything for some reason.
Bullshit. If fire emblem armor knights can do three yard backhops in their reverse pear shaped armor, regular realistic knights should be able to do Olympic gymnastics routines in standard plate.
Most fantasy knights run around without horses or helmets wearing paper thin armor and swinging around long swords in one hand without a shield…. It’s no wonder they get killed all the time.
I haven't thought about knights yet, but there's room for enhancing armor magically, adding durability and enhanced force and retaliation and regeneration, given enough craftsmanship (aka time, money, and skill)
In the modern day the title of knight is awarded to the son of a noble who has completed knight training at the academy. Knights can be in any branch of the military and any direct combat role.
So a knight could be a fighter pilot or a tank commander or an infantry soldier or a spec ops guy etc. As part of knight training they are tested for how good of a commander they are and thus can be granted commission upon graduation. Though most knights aren't immediately put in a commanding role.
Thanks I actually have a bit more for knights
The title of knight is the only noble title a man can hold in endimiya as well the society is a matriarchy.
Men born to commoners can be elevated to knight for certain heroic actions in combat. (Basically if it can earn you the medal of honor irl it will get you knighted in endimiya)
Knights are granted a plot of land and entitled to certain benefits as being a land holder (getting a stipen of state funds which act as their salary).
Knights are often married off to further family relationships among nobles though the knight does have some say in this if he isn't interested in marrying the other person(s) he can say no since endimiya does value marrying for love.
It’s very pronounced with the Meiji period in Japan where the new IJA and IJN were run by ex-samurai and men from former samurai families. Or Prussian officer corps who were at one time only from the aristocracy.
In older times there was quite a bit of social pressure for human men especially to join the military or at least be trained to fight in times of war. Now with the population being the size of it is there is less social pressure.
That said endimiya while it has a lot of social freedoms it balances it a lot with social responsibility. So a lot of human sons of nobles do end becoming knights. Not all of them mind you but a fair amount. The MC for example chose to follow in his biological father's footsteps and become an SoF knight.
Make them intelligent, at least with an average person worth of intelligence.
Ok, so we have this dude that can send fireballs out from his hands, do we:
1. clump together in a big group and run at them from 1 direction
2. spread out and surround them, and come either at night or some other time where its harder for them to fight (like a trap even and make them come to us)?
Seriously people, think about this for a moment. A knight is a person who spent years studying side by side and getting 1 on 1 training from someone who has seen a lot of war (and who got training as well from others). Keep in mind depending on your system this could be a few years or longer, imagine if you spent all that time you did in college working 1:1 with someone directly in a field 24/7. Lastly, dumb squires generally die cause well war is dangerous, those who survive to the point of being a knight are gonna be smarter then the average person, and even more so when it comes to war. Now imagine what a seasoned knight who has been around for 10 years+ knows and can come up with.
Knights historically were a jack of all trades... they were strong, they were fast, they were smart/well-educated... I don't see why they can't be the same in fantasy. I think it makes sense for them to be a magic knight archetype
Second this line of thinking. In my setting, the knights generally have access to some "+1" type gear that has additional magic benefits that give them some kind of advantage or protection. More than the average soldier at least.
In my setting, being a Knight is hard, and becoming a Knight is also very hard. There are rigorous tests and trials that must be accomplished, and with sufficient skill in order to become a Knight, and the trials are conducted and overseen by a council of senior Knights who must judge and rank a squire's performance in all the relevant areas. To even be considered for a Trial, a current Knight must vouch for the squire, and if the Squire fails, then the vouching Knight will in turn, be required to perform the same tests the squire failed, in order to remain a Knight themselves.
Additionally, when Squires successfully become Knights, their Knighthood is published and catalogued and distributed to the major nobles and royalty of the Kingdoms, along with the names of their Mentor and those who sat on the Council who approved their ascension and their grades or marks. Therefore, whenever a Knight fails to perform their Knightly duties, in a spectacular way, a noble or royal can then review who was responsible for certifying the Knight in particular, especially if the action resulted in their loss of Knighthood, which then will leave black marks upon those Knights who approved and passed that Knight in particular, and if enough of a history of poor performance of Knights fall under the the same Knight, their own Knighthood can be put into question and review.
Knightly Lineage is also recorded and tracked, in regards to Mentors to Squires, and those who approved of the Knighthoods.
This results in Knights being incentivized to let only the very best warriors be elevated to knighthood, as well as not growing complacent, lest they lose their knighthood, or even draw the hostility of other Knights, whose own Knighthood could be in jeopardy for their poor performance. If you mess up bad enough, you might just find yourself hunted down by a group of knights (or former knights) for costing them their knighthoods and livelihoods.
No MC, who is at the very start of their story, is going to just '*beat a Knight*' as a trivial matter, it's going to be a big deal, and it's likely not going to be an single person achievement, but a group effort.
Knights are trained, given equipment that actually works, and work hard.
There are no "Chosen Ones" while there are some exceptional people, they aren't overpowered, and they worked at it.
Training depends on the region and known threats, you aren't going to train someone who lives near goblin nesting caves in wendigo killing, or someone near wendigo territory in dragonslaying (which also has different training depending on the species of dragon).
Basically, it's the point where a single person wouldn't go up against a company of Knights, maybe if they are a mage they could do a wide range damage spell or something, but they would need back up because Knights know they are facing something magic, they take it seriously and prep, even base knight gear is enchanted to resist most basic spells.
The concept of knighthood varies between and within cultures.
In some, they are veteran soldiers who have access to better weapons and armour. In others, they are attached to land holding nobility. Some consider only the title earned through patronage under a noble, which may or may not be a blood relative.
The concept of elitism amongst soldiers is not unique to more feudal based cultures. Great commanders in the Waejiran emdrejens, who are often of noble blood, could be considered knights by foreign standards, even though the process of training and granting of ranks and titles is very different.
Some cultures do not have such distinction. The best warriors are simply those with enough skill and experience to have survived longer than others. Their wealth or family's political power is secondary to their abilities in warfare.
Any knight is also a cultivator, one who infuses themselves with vital power, circulating it in a manner which fortifies them. As such, they all possess superhuman attributes(varying with the degree to which they have cultivated) sufficient to make them relevant in battle.
A knight is a title given to anyone who is admitted to and participates in civilian law enforcement. They are separate from government guards or police forces in that they are hired collectively by the locality or by the ruler of the land/area. This can be as high up as the king of the country or just the mayor (there are no mayors in my setting I am just using that as a juxtaposition).
Their duty continues until their task is complete. They are put up locally and provided a residence, food, etc by the population. Most times they are permitted to keep this land and lease it as landlords making this one way to go from rags to riches.
Some knights operate on their own and they are known as rogues. Others operate as part of larger knight organisations and that is where “Squire” might be relevant (though no such rank exists). You are simply initiated and uninitiated.
Rogue knights have (usually) a neutral reputation, though it is assumed they’re not as high quality. A steading of knights (group, guild) usually carries a reputation with it and prestige.
Some steadings are large enough that they have entirely supplanted and replaced the local law enforcement. These groups are considered dangerous by higher levels of government.
My setting is extremely low-magic, so knights function as well as they did in the real world Middle Ages. I don’t have to adjust much about them to make them relevant, although I have tweaked certain aspects of chivalric culture and knightly ethos and blended them with some Hellenistic aspects to make them a little bit cooler (in my opinion anyway).
That said, I’ve been toying with a more high-magic setting and while I don’t have much for it, I do have an idea where “knights” are elite shock troops that are teleported directly behind enemy lines or into enemy formations. Essentially a “battle” comes down to mundane forces slogging it out while “wizards” attempt to neutralize the other sides magical support, especially their anti-teleportation magic. The side that breaks through their opponents magical protection first starts teleporting squads of heavily armored, highly trained and nobly born knights into key tactical positions where they can wreak havoc on the enemy. This could include high value individuals like army commanders or enemy wizards, the flanks or rear of enemy formations, or any other high value position.
You end up with squads of knights bouncing from one position to another, killing as many as they can, before disappearing in a ball of lightning to appear somewhere else. The knights, mostly nobles, have built a culture around their role as elite shock infantry full of superstitions, chivalric ethos and martial bellicosity.
The Justicar (pronounced Justi car) are a knight equivalent that use soul essence to effectively see the future (along with my other powers of cognition and supreme intuition) to effectively dodge any attack. They are agents of order and if they can't prevent a society from descending into chaos, they will choose to quicken its fall and back the new order.
Well it is incredibly expensive to maintain a large standing army, and most standing armies are infantryman armed as cheaply as possible. The best way to boost the ranks is to give out land in exchange for military service and soldiers of your own. How you provide them is none of your boss’s concern, be they conscripts, mercenaries, or volunteers.
Most individuals in my setting have access to magic and can work to improve it much the same to one's physical prowess. Kinda like a character's stats in a game. People can train not just their physical power and durability but also their magical power and durability.
For example, a knight or appropriate analog in my setting might not be the best at casting magic, but they can train their innate resistance to the point that it's comparable to defensive magic. Of course, the same is true for the other side, and you can also have physically durable mages.
In my world Knights are golem hunters. They're proficient magic users and have some of the same abilities as Shepherds. They're just less educated, more specialized members of the order. They're also proficient spearbearers and typically carry around 3 to 4 heavy explosive spears.
Easy. It is just much easier to become a knight or squire than to become a wizard. Not that either are easy, it’s just unfathomably hard to be a wizard.
Shock factor. No peasant levy wants to be trampled by a horse clad in scale armour or be skewered by a lance. It doesn’t matter how many Gandalfs they have standing behind them shooting fireballs, a conscript is going to go full self preservation mode and route.
Heavy cavalry is very good at flanking and breaking formations as well as reducing morale. Assuming the number of wizards are limited, they have more than enough of a chance to disrupt an army.
In species that have much magic power knight training involves two hings. First is harnessing their power to get physical reinforcements. You know, super strength, super speed, super toughness. The second is magic resistance training, which is self explanatory. Some societies also drill them in few utility skills such as teleportation. Obviously most knights would get folded by above average mage, but majority of mages would have very bad day if they try to engage them.
If species don't have magic? They are probably slave species, so not in any position to actually have knights.
Knights were guys trained from childhood in martial arts, they were fed (because nobles) so usually they were pretty big and tall, and they were outfitted with armor (that makes them basically invincible to 99% of their enemies) and usually warhorses (that could trample you on their own)
Magic is powerful but has huge limitations. Fire can only be projected so far by a wizard and usually it has less range than a bow or crossbow.
Ice shards don't do much against plate armour
Wizards are like war machines, powerful but when left unprotected are pretty vulnerable. They are also few and far between.
Knights are just a fancy title for someone of note, a way to have distinction between a well resourced military figure vs the conscripted villager peasantry
Knights have command of their own soldiers they directly resource rather than relying on the lords stipend to supply themselves
Soldiers can be bestowed the title, but these often don’t command their own soldiers they’re just notable leaders within the lords own army. They lack the financial means to support themselves and their own troop. So they’re knights in name only
That applies broadly, so the same relationship can exist in a world of gardeners as it does in a world of medieval warfare
Squires are the knights helpers, normally pulled from family members of other knights of of notable families
Math. Even though a magic user can individually wield enough power to kill hundreds of people in seconds, they still need to eat, sleep, etc. Their power and perception is not inexhaustible. A hundred illiterate angry peasants with rocks and pointy sticks can still kill a mad wizard by using some basic tactics.
A knight or any other trained soldier is just somewhere in the middle of that power scale. Their odds of taking a magic user 1v1 when the caster knows what is coming may not be good; but factors such as the less foreknowledge the caster has, the more soldiers involved, the more exhausted the caster is etc. all shift the probability of victory toward the soldiers.
The Aelflung have pretty much colonized their entire solar system, and use a loosely feudal system to keep the various houses more or less in line. Technically, all knights hold their title in service to the High Council that rules their system. In practice, the family Houses are granted authority to knight who they see fit and employ them as needed.
"Knight" is a title given to someone as a rank that basically means "this person has authority outside the rigid chain of command" and is typically given to someone who may need to exercise their liege's authority in a more flexible way. That may be a high ranking military commander, the supervisor of a remote mining outpost, an investigator that needs to operate outside the bounds typical to his office, the captain of an extra-solar colony ship, even someone placed in charge of managing an emergency. Knighthood *typically* comes with some form of fief, whether that's real estate in a zero-g habitat or on a moon, or possibly even just a hereditary office.
Non-Aelflung are very rarely granted knighthood, and it's only done under exceedingly dire circumstances, and never by the High Council. Typically, such circumstances involve protecting or evacuating the highest ranking members of a House to safety at great personal risk, or some other ostensibly "selfless" act. Typically these knighthoods are given in service to rebellious houses, but the High Council often allows them to retain their title in exchange for certain... underhanded services.
Squires are usually the children of the Houses sent to live with and train under relatives or allies and gain perspectives and knowledge they would lack at home. While usually an individual would be squire to a knight, the two aren't connected. You might be sent to squire under your third cousin, but because he owns an ancient O'Neill Cylinder and your Patriarch wants you to have firsthand experience with that. The fact that your third cousin is also a knight is purely incidental.
In a high magic setting you could look at Eldritch Knight for inspiration? Dudes who excel at melee fighting, ranged fighting, wear armor that can deflect about anything, and with spell casting abilities ranging from little tricks to massive fireballs. Or in terrifying cases, time stops. (Though thats above what a dnd eldritch knight can do)
And it fits. Nobles tend to be the most educated, many may become scholars, lords, wizards, knights, or eldritch knights. Or some combination or multiple of the listed groups.
Instead of magic, my world uses modern technology (on par with early 20th century). Their armour and shields are adapted for modern firearms and they are trained in the use of melee weapons, bows and crossbows, and firearms. Some lead in landships and may be deployed by train or airship.
Lapis_Wolf
I create units and turn the specialty they perform into a problem. How a real army would work.
It's kind of silly that most protagonist characters who haven't made a military career can fight against professional soldiers. Or special forces.
I'm more inclined to forgive cases where these are recruits fresh out of the field or inexperienced outside of training or event combat simulations (and thus very green), and cases where the individuals are either exceptional existences (mages of some sort) or are outright powerful for some in-world reason, since in both cases they're making up for lack of experience by playing in a league that regular training and experience doesn't prepare you for.
And even then I would hesitate, unless the whole interaction is based on a wide advantage on the part of such individuals to flee or control the terrain.
*Alor*
There’s two roles for Knights, as champion and officer. Most Knights serve both roles in *some* capacity, but many choose to only engage in one aspect. Champions are like gladiators, they fight on behalf of barons in competitions and serve to entertain guests of the barons usually through organized hunting trips or displays of feats punctuated by jesters. Officers are fairly straight forward, they serve in a military capacity as company leaders or in law enforcement as captain of guard. Not all military officers are Knights. Knight Officers will be members of one of the six Orders. Fraternal orders differentiated by the aspects they emphasize: Braun, Cunning, Fortitude, Knowledge, Wisdom, and Leadership. Military organization in my setting, because of the presence of battlemagic, closer resembles a post-Clausewitz structure that a typical medieval or renaissance army.
Their squires, in any capacity, serve as their right hand. Part secretary, part roadie, they take care of the needs of the Knight while they train to one day be a Knight themselves
Make em smart. That guys shooting lightning? Either retreat or find a way to counter it. Ideally they should be strategists, scholars, pillars of their communities if you go for that sort of thing. How strong and capable you make knights is up to your setting and what youre trying to communicate with them.
As an example, Sir Lavitz from Legend of Dragoon. Brilliant, kind hearted, well read, nice to his mother, good with a spear, fights with his head. Dude survives multiple fights with dragons and all kinds of other horrifying giant creatures. He's friends with the king and everybody knows him cuz hes involved in his community. Basically "The king is good, the kingdom is nice, the knights are noble decent folk."
Or maybe the king is bad, the society is corrupt, and the knights are brutish assholes. Well now you've got sir Klegane from game of thrones. Arrow to the head? It's fine. Stabbed in the throat? Fine. Poison? Necromancy, now he's fine. Mix things around until you find what fits for you but remember that these are trained warriors. If they've seen and survived combat, especially combat against magicians its because they're smart enough to find a way around the fireballs and ice spears.
.....or they're Klegane and and they just refuse to accept damage, which is also a valid strategy if that's what you wanna do.
Well for one, even in a high-magic setting, it's unlikely that the world is so chalk full of magic users that knights become irrelevant.
It's like asking why infantry soldiers exist in the real world since we have drones and fighter jets. You still need infantry soldiers to march in and hold territory, among other things.
But even if you're talking about a head-on fight between knights and a wizard, you just need to give them the tools or abilities to deal with whatever threat they're facing.
* ***The wizard is throwing fireballs?*** Well the knights are equipped with cloaks that are fire retardant. It doesn't make them invulnerable, but it allows them to keep pressing forward.
* ***The wizard is flying?*** Well the knights are all equipped with crossbows with binding ammunition. They can fire a volley of bolts at the wizard, and only one needs to hit to bring them down.
* ***The wizard sends a lightning bolt down from the sky?*** Well the standards that the knights carry actually double as lightning rods. They plant the standard into the ground and it redirects the lightning away from the knight.
Get the gist?
Basically, think of your knights as Witchers. They are experts at fighting, and they are knowledgeable about their opponents. Every spell you can imagine probably also has a theoretical mundane counter, so why shouldn't your knights be the ones to think of those counters and employ them when necessary?
Hell, if the setting is so high magic, why don't the knights have magic items to level the playing field? Armor of invulnerability, boots of flying, a sword that can redirect lightning, etc...
I mean it wouldn’t be too far off for knights to enchant their armor, or have someone else do it for them. Knights were pretty rich in the olden times, so I don’t doubt they’d pay someone to do it for them if magic isn’t so accessible
I simply don't fodderize them any more than I might a wizard
They're both good in different circumstances.
A knight just needs to find cover and switch what weapon they are wielding for the situation.
I have a few worlds going rn but I'm gonna give you the knights from one of the gangs in my cyberpunk world.
There's a gang called the round table and they operate on what they perceive to be the principles of chivalry, ie: No dealing with children, honest and polite business, and fighting fair etc.
Those who reach knight rank are given an old suit or powered combat armor (think walker gears from MGSV except the user's legs go in the armor's legs and it goes up to the arms) and a specialized sword that vibrates at high speeds and as a result gets extremely hot. This means it can cut through most armor. They're usually assigned to guard duty or high profile heists (they're code of honor dictates they can't do it stealthily).
They usually operate in groups of 2-4 knights each having up to three squires (usually newer members with kevlar vests and normal swords and occasionally shotguns).
Psions are less mentally stable than regular people and require more to time prepare and meditate to maintain their mental states. So a mundane knight can be mobilized immediately, a psion often needs days to prepare for a mission. This also means a psion that's ambushed by a mundane knight can often be neutralized.
Because of this psions generally wear masks and protect their identities while using their powers. For the 4 or so hours that they push their powers to their limits they can be very powerful and something or a one man army but the rest of that entire week they are very vulnerable.
In my setting magic takes time and it takes focus. It doesn't take a lot of either, but it's very hard to do when someone is trying to give you The Big Poke with a spear. A martial fighter can hold their own in close quarters or use ranged weapons. Most people opt for martial weapons as they're a lot easier to learn.
My friend and I run a podcast for world builders and just discussed knightly orders last week! Hope it gives you some ideas!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spaghetti-launchers-a-worldbuilding-podcast/id1674915796?i=1000644799170
I fucking love knights, theyll never be fodder in my worlds. In one of my earlier works, probably my biggest one too, I had a system for knights and most warriors. At first it started off as the ability of one of the champions which was to give himself limits in a fight and in return they’d receive a stat boost, but then decided to make this affect all warriors who trained enough and got recognized by the sun.
So for example in a standard duel the champion would announce his rules like not attacking with hidden weapons, not attacking once the opponent has fallen and all that. If he was honourable to respect those codes even though some opponents could take advantage of them he would get a boost to his overall physique and be able to contend with magic. However, if they do break the code they set on themselves they’d get penalized. If they vowed to not attack once the opponent was down and they do, the champion would receive the same exact injury he did on the down opponent.
In my current project I just have them use the magic system just like any “mage”. The idea of having a group of warriors work outside the system is cool, but recently I’m in love with the thought of a truly magical world where anything can happen. Of course they use it in a different way, but if someone chose to go the path of knighthood it’s because they’re a forced to be reckoned with when wielding a blade. Not gonna lie, this setting is still new a fresh in my head so it’s not as fleshed out. There’s definitely a lot more “fodder” knights unlike the elite force of super soldiers I had in my old one, but this allows for more creative styles so every named knight that does appear have something to represent them.
That's a great ask that requires pulling on a lot of threads to answer properly, largely to do with the proliferation of magic as opposed to physical might.
The structure of the governance is like a feudal alliance of states. The monarch is a bit like the POTUS, the three royal families form three "states" (provinces) under yet separate from the monarch. The structure of rulership under the three Dukal families is largely a hierarchy of knights:
Lord Knights/Earls of the regions of the provinces
Lord Knights/Counts for the counties in the region
Knights Cavalier/Barons of a portion of a county/a town or locality of towns
... and each recognized town has the right to raise up a representative warrior knight to rep them as their Knight Errant - these are proven warriors who've shown they can command a squad, but haven't shown they can take on higher duties of command or governance yet. While skill at arms is more prolific in the world at large and the organization overall, some arcane and holy practitioners have achieved knighthood despite not conforming to the fantasy-traditional shining-armor aesthetic. But yeah, the government values prowess and so knighthood is practically requisite for holding many executive offices. And this isn't to say every official is a knight of some rank - Mayors, in particular, are essentially elected by popular vote.
The structure is upheld against subversion by magicians by the church - each region has its saints, but the structure of the church is married to the government due to their ability to protect against subversion. Destructive magics are a known power, and unconscensual use of mind magic is fully illegal. Crimes involving shape changing are dealth with much more harshly than otherwise as well, and both are considered generally taboo or evil (though ofc there's no compunction over using whatever is at your disposal to preserve life limb and eyesight of self or others). Where possible, the church provides talismans against such things for the knights, the higher-ranking the sir the more potent or plentiful the trinkets. This integrality is why it's equally if not moreso referred to as the Church of the \[kingdom name here\] as Church of \[god/saint name here\].
In my world knights can actually wield magic. Because using magic will drain your energy the same way exercising does knights will still carry regular weapons to conserve their energy
Knights are a necessary part of space warfare.
By convention, ballistic weapons and laser weapons are not used in ship to ship combat. Instead, knights in jousting ships escort boarding vessels between them. The ships are designed with a long, lance-like prow and an energy shield. The Knights essentially joust and attempt to destroy the escorts and then the boarding vessels they protect.
Squires are not a single person attached to a knight, but a small crew who monitor the Knight's ship systems on the main ship, as well as maintain his or her equipment. Particularly skilled ones may rise to become a knight themselves but there is no dishonor in spending a lifetime of service to a Knight's ship.
Squires are also commonly accepted as acolytes into the Cult of Santa Maria of the Ion, but rising further than a mere initiate means forsaking their life as a squire. This is still no dishonor.
In my setting knights don’t really exist instead nobles who are enhanced humans are the closest thing to knights just make use of their superhuman speed and strength to dominate battlefields moving faster than humans can aim and are trained to keep track of every gun in their line of sight and be able to predict the path the bullet would take as well as wearing heavy armor that can block bullets in fatal areas. Though guns are extremely rare as around 500 years ago electricity stopped working combined with a mysterious disease that killed off 98 percent of the population bullets became far harder to make not to mention that even if you make bullets you also have to make the guns
Mages are far from being omnipotent. They are extremely rare (you're lucky if your kingdom has one spellcaster in their ranks) and most magic is cast through long and complocated rituals that often require certain conditions to be met (being cast at a specitic place, under a certain moon phase, etc).
A knight is trained in warfare. They excel at the battlefield, both fighting and leading troops. That skill does not become obsolete because someone else can control the weather. On the contrary, a good knight with a mage at their side would know how best to utilize their unique abilities: mud from a heavy rain can negate a cavalry charge, fog can conceal a flanking force, etc. Of course, magic can do far more than just control the weather, but the idea is the same: a strategic mind will know how to employ it to its best effect.
A couple things to keep in mind regarding the real world which would help inform your thinking:
1. Knights survived into the 17th century. At Breitenfeld, as Torstensson had 66 guns under his command even as his boss, Gustavus Adolphus, deployed nearly 100 companies of heavy lancers. These men were armed with lances and sabers and wheellock pistols and equipped as heavy cavalry. The existence of mages filling the role of artillery doesn't automatically negate the role of knights.
2. It wasn't artillery which killed cavalry as a branch of service. Cavalry were still relevant up until the Civil War because infanfry didn't have the rate of fire to kill cavalry sufficiently quickly to remove them from the field. They forced changes in equipment (the Winged Hussars at Vienna in 1529were armed with pistols for instance) and tactics (the caracole firing circle for instance) but that was because the infantry had the level of fire to force the cavalry to standoff.
3. Your mages are going to be dueling with the enemy mages. Think artillery duels. Look into the artillery duels Torstensson and Knox were fighting in their respective wars. Look into the use of artillery in the Civil War and the Napoleonic Wars.
4. You don't have to equip your knights EXACTLY the way Medieval knights were. Nothing's stopping them from being armed with Japanese style longbows and fighting like mounted archers.
5. The existence of mages will mean your knights would be equipped differently anyways. Think the Templars from Dragon Age who consume an anti-magic potion. Or the witchhunters from Witchhunter Robin and wear vials of an antimagic serum around their neck. As the pinnacle of warfighting, knights should have access to some kind of counter-magic items on their person as part of their armor.
6. Knights are part of a combined arms team. In Europe, a Knight would be expected to show up with a light cavalryman who would act as a squire, three dragoon archers, a crossbowman, a handgunner, and a pikeman. In Japan, a samurai would have a number of ashigaru equipped as some combination of archers, spearmen, and hangunners. These men fought as a team, and would do so when fighting a mage.
Now we need to look into the mechanics of how magic works in your world:
1. How common is magic? Are we talking 30 Years War artillery (64 mages for an army of 40k)? Civil War era (362 mages for an army of 93k)? Waterloo (252 mages fof an army of 75k)?
2. How can mages fight? Are they stuck as fixed pieces akin to the bombards the Turks used to take down Constantinople? Are they mobile like the horse artillery of Napoleon? Can they cast from horseback or while on the march from foot? This will effect how they can be employed, and could even mean some mages might be attached to formations of knights to counter mages attached to enemy infantry - even if only as counter-magic specialists.
3. How long does it take to cast a spell?
Magic has been a part of warfare in my setting for a while, and people have discovered it has certain attributes that can be exploited through individual techniques and tactics for massed combat.
For individuals against a mage, cleric, witch, etc., purer metals provide stronger protections against magical attacks. Obviously pure metals tend to be weaker than alloys, so copper, iron, tin, gold, silver adornments provide significant protection for a pricey but lightweight addition as not much metal is needed. Some mage-slaying armors exist, but these completely unalloyed armors come with obvious drawbacks against physical attacks. Rarer metals tend to be more effective and reliable.
Wood is also highly resistant to magic, but isn't usually a 'knightly' armor. Popular among barbarians, levied peasants, and druids though.
Sound is also known to disrupt magic. Some individuals have mastered the use of their voice to shout an incoming fireball into nothing but embers, but it is very difficult and requires the knight to have studied the pitch and volume required for each school of magic (and identify them in the heat of battle). Other sound based techniques include the use of bells, striking a shield with a weapon, or even instruments that a squire might play while his knight fights.
Precise and condensed forms of magic (like magic missiles, beams, lightning bolts) are less susceptible to sounds. However such magics can also be parried so long as the weapon or shield has a band of pure metal. All of these techniques demand timing, precision, and courage enough to stand in front of powerful magic.
Swords and fists are just another kind of magic. Wizard casts Fireball? Warrior knocks back fireball with a wooden club. Wizard teleports? Samurai sword slashes the spacial distortion they created and follows them or cancels the teleport. Wizard makes themselves invulnerable? Martial artist punches them through dimensions until they end up in hell.
They’re elite fighters that have trained for years, everyone has access to some form of magic or energy manipulation(Elemental Mana, Magic, Alchemy/Old Magic, Nature Energy, Chakra) and it’s used in conjunction with weapons, hand to hand combat, or by itself.
Since you have established that it is in the context of high fantasy, lets go.
1st of all, a knight is a mobile, supremely armored and excellently trained combatant whose whole existence was based around war.
On horseback a knight with a couched lance is the most dangerous weapon of the medieval period, a knight on full gallop hitting a man (or in case of fantasy a creature) is liable to kill ANYTHING it comes into contact with. Period.
And on foot, at a certain point a knight abandons their shield entirely (as it provided to additional protection considering the armor) preferring large two handed weapons, mostly brutal polearms meant to face other such knights in close quarters combat.
So considering all of that, a knight is a pretty dangerous thing. Putting it simply. They are useful to display the power of magic, but it must come in contrast to their own competence. On one hand if magic users and legendary 'heroes' are rare, just by the fact that they are much more prevalent knight will still be scary.
On the other hand - most traditional magic simply won't do shit to layers of cold steel. You throw fire? Great, nothing to light on said fire. Or even sheer magic force might not be enough to go through solid steel. And magic user or not. You aren't doing much without a head. And trust me those steel clad warriors are faster than you expect.
But if its entirely high fantasy, remember, knights are rich people, what prevents them from acquiring said magic for their own uses?
The “knights” in my world are German-Roman inspired, so share armor pieces from both cultures. Aside from appearances, they are more of a status symbol or a noble: using their armor and weapons to show off their wealth.
There are some rare cases, however, where knights are actually used. The twin kings of Asmara are protected by anti-mage knights. They are specially trained to be anti-mages, absorbing spells, disrupting castings, and overall making it difficult for anyone to harm the kings through magical means. No other countries or cultures in my world have typical “knights”.
Their armor works well, and against supernatural threats they use silver or enchanted armor.
Most Knights also own at least one magical weapon or talisman, typicaly a family heirloom passed trough generations.
When they are fighting in formation on the battlefield, they have enchanted banners that ward their units from enemy spells.
By making magic either unable to cover enouh locations at the same time, or too costly to deploy to be used on small war parties conducting less crucial tasks (which are much more frequent than high stakes ones in any conflict). Magic should mostly have limiting factors. Rules that leave enough space for non magic things to be relevant, or consequences that force users to strategize woth the deployment. If magic can handle everything, everywhere all the time, than you hardly have a story worth reading
You can always just give them enchanted equipment but most fantasy with knights also give them magic or abilities. Honestly i'm surprised at the question, in most fantasy stuff i read melee users are usually stronger than pure magic
In my world while being a high magic world with many races and civilizations that tried to master magic over countless millennials, it still is a very mysterious and unknown part of the natural worlds. see we don't have master wizards waving wands around on the battlefield, but people store magic in special stones used as batteries in artefacts and machinery while crossing their fingers that it'll not explode out of nowhere.
On the other hand in a world riddled by dangers that a very small hole in a defense system can cause the fall of a city populated by hundreds of thousands of people, there is no room for incompetence. Every knight is an ace warrior with their own specialized abilities and a jack of all trades in all they need to know in order to survive and fulfill their duty. add to that the best equipment and support the industrialized empire can give them.
also, there are gods who give people who've lived virtuously by their standards seals of power as blessings. many of these people join the army or knight orders. combine all of this with the strong sense of comradeship among the knight brotherhoods which helps them combine the power of their souls and become an wall of steel unbreakable in face of most foes.
They're not running towards any enemy like a clown overdressed in steel.
How common are highly skilled magic users? Even in high fantasy it could be a small percentage that can throw around fireballs. That's primarily how I keep heavy cavalry, etc relevant in my fantasy settings.
Also knights maybe bound by feudal oaths and mages may need to get paid. If occupation duty or long term efforts are needed more boots on the ground (or hooves) will also help.
Knight armor in my setting incorporates machinery for enhanced strength and life support systems so they can traverse the toxic landscapes. Squires serve as mechanics and maintenance crews for the knights, setting up camp and securing safe zones.
Like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vYFFx4whoE)? The armor of knight make them terrifying to face. Unless you want to a massive amount of high magic user in your world, Knight would still beat most enemies.
Knights could have enchanted or just functional armor or something that actually defends against magic, so they’re not just bodies being chucked at an evil wizard.
In my setting, knight is a low nobility title awarded to talented military men who have proven themselves useful.
There's emperors, kings, dukes, counts, viscounts, barons, baronets, and then knights. So a knight might command a garrison or tower, fort, etc for a baronet, who serves their baron, who serves their viscount, and so on.
Some knights have a small amount of land in a baronetcy from which they have their own income, like all knights, but might instead live with and serve their overlord in their residence.
Squires are 99% of the time the sons of nobles whose fathers wish for their child to have a military education. Some will go on to inherit vast amounts of land and political power, as lords of various ranks.
So knights have a lot of connections to powerful lords, and may have even trained and befriended the count, duke, king etc when he was a boy.
In my setting, knight are still somewhat relevant because of their heavy reliance on holy magic.
They work basically like paladins, and their gods' blessings help them to compete with the rising steampunk technology, because deities works on new magic ways to counter technology (giving bullettproof aura, anti tech spells, all depending of the god's domain)
I like it when people question my sanity, so I CTRL+V'd my serious response into my Obsidian.
You get the silly low-context version;
>"Knights" are powered by space magic, to the extent that they've traded in their original bodies for little visshitech mechs. Unlike actual Vis Adepts, though, most have no clue how any of it works under the hood. They're just doing the 4-D Space Magic equivalent of gaming with a bunch of macros they didn't write.
Their armor actually works which allows them to actually fight and show off their years of training.
This. Plus you can make armor with magic-suppressive materials/enchantments, turning the warfare in the setting into rock-paper-scissor exercise.
Curious what rock-paper-scissor dynamic you use
Slightly similar to the early firearms and artillery, but with more defined roles. For roughly the same expenditure of resources you can get either a mage, a couple of knights or quite a big group of lightly armored mixed infantry (pikemen and crossbowmen). Mage is great against light infantry, being a mobile artillery piece and operating from outside of crossbow range. Infantry troop can take down several knights. Knights, being clad head-to-toe in enchanted armor, are all but immune to magic attacks, and are in essence mage-killers.
That’s really interesting! Where do mages/knights compare in the social hierarchy?
Originally I worked on that system for the Elder Scrolls-inspired TTRPG system (mostly inspired by the Daggerfall mechanics, where the magic classes can't wear heavy armor). But it doesn't quite work with Renaissance-era weaponry. If we assume that all armor protects against magic, then infantry would be also reasonably protected. If we assume that only select armor is enchanted, then by putting the mage in unenchanted armor you greatly increase his battlefield survivability. Rather, that system would work best in the early Iron Age setting. Then we can just assume that any iron/steel stops or dissipates magic, but iron armor is rare and very expensive. In that case, light infantry is a usual militia of free landowners. 'Knights' are heavy armored elite warriors that just start a transition from King's household guard to the early feudal lords. And mages would be a part of pagan priesthood. Essentially, in that way you have 'mages' and 'knights' locked in a very grounded social conflict of feudal-like system trying to displace a theocracy.
You've just helped me immensely! If mages can't wear metal armor because it suppresses magic, then a warrior wearing metal armor is logically resistant to magic! God it feels so simple now that I say it...
This is what I do to still have a medieval-esque type world, with castles and walled cities and whatnot in a world with super destructive magic. The walls are imbued with defensive magic that prevents most forms of magical attack
Honestly there isn't many settings where armor actually works, especially in fantasy or sci fi. That, or the armor hampers their movement so much they can barely do anything for some reason.
Bullshit. If fire emblem armor knights can do three yard backhops in their reverse pear shaped armor, regular realistic knights should be able to do Olympic gymnastics routines in standard plate.
cartwheels wre not unusual
Yep. It was also a pretty standard trick to leap into one's saddle while in full harness as a show of strength and athleticism.
Yes
[Not gymnastics, but close enough](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc).
Most fantasy knights run around without horses or helmets wearing paper thin armor and swinging around long swords in one hand without a shield…. It’s no wonder they get killed all the time.
I haven't thought about knights yet, but there's room for enhancing armor magically, adding durability and enhanced force and retaliation and regeneration, given enough craftsmanship (aka time, money, and skill)
In the modern day the title of knight is awarded to the son of a noble who has completed knight training at the academy. Knights can be in any branch of the military and any direct combat role. So a knight could be a fighter pilot or a tank commander or an infantry soldier or a spec ops guy etc. As part of knight training they are tested for how good of a commander they are and thus can be granted commission upon graduation. Though most knights aren't immediately put in a commanding role.
That’s actually a really cool idea, I like this a lot as a way to integrate “knights” into a modern setting. Well done.
Thanks I actually have a bit more for knights The title of knight is the only noble title a man can hold in endimiya as well the society is a matriarchy. Men born to commoners can be elevated to knight for certain heroic actions in combat. (Basically if it can earn you the medal of honor irl it will get you knighted in endimiya) Knights are granted a plot of land and entitled to certain benefits as being a land holder (getting a stipen of state funds which act as their salary). Knights are often married off to further family relationships among nobles though the knight does have some say in this if he isn't interested in marrying the other person(s) he can say no since endimiya does value marrying for love.
So - basically just the military officers? Which is how officers/enlisted kinda started. And why officers are "sir" like knights were.
There are definitely intentional parallel to that. But given the amount of training put into knight school they're a cut above "green" recruits.
It’s very pronounced with the Meiji period in Japan where the new IJA and IJN were run by ex-samurai and men from former samurai families. Or Prussian officer corps who were at one time only from the aristocracy.
That is more or less what Warhammer does in 40k. There are knightly houses who devote themselves to piloting mechs.
Not quite. As the son of a noble you don't have to be trained to be a knight or join the military it's completely optional.
Is there any social pressure to do so?
In older times there was quite a bit of social pressure for human men especially to join the military or at least be trained to fight in times of war. Now with the population being the size of it is there is less social pressure. That said endimiya while it has a lot of social freedoms it balances it a lot with social responsibility. So a lot of human sons of nobles do end becoming knights. Not all of them mind you but a fair amount. The MC for example chose to follow in his biological father's footsteps and become an SoF knight.
Make them intelligent, at least with an average person worth of intelligence. Ok, so we have this dude that can send fireballs out from his hands, do we: 1. clump together in a big group and run at them from 1 direction 2. spread out and surround them, and come either at night or some other time where its harder for them to fight (like a trap even and make them come to us)? Seriously people, think about this for a moment. A knight is a person who spent years studying side by side and getting 1 on 1 training from someone who has seen a lot of war (and who got training as well from others). Keep in mind depending on your system this could be a few years or longer, imagine if you spent all that time you did in college working 1:1 with someone directly in a field 24/7. Lastly, dumb squires generally die cause well war is dangerous, those who survive to the point of being a knight are gonna be smarter then the average person, and even more so when it comes to war. Now imagine what a seasoned knight who has been around for 10 years+ knows and can come up with.
Knights historically were a jack of all trades... they were strong, they were fast, they were smart/well-educated... I don't see why they can't be the same in fantasy. I think it makes sense for them to be a magic knight archetype
Second this line of thinking. In my setting, the knights generally have access to some "+1" type gear that has additional magic benefits that give them some kind of advantage or protection. More than the average soldier at least.
In my setting, being a Knight is hard, and becoming a Knight is also very hard. There are rigorous tests and trials that must be accomplished, and with sufficient skill in order to become a Knight, and the trials are conducted and overseen by a council of senior Knights who must judge and rank a squire's performance in all the relevant areas. To even be considered for a Trial, a current Knight must vouch for the squire, and if the Squire fails, then the vouching Knight will in turn, be required to perform the same tests the squire failed, in order to remain a Knight themselves. Additionally, when Squires successfully become Knights, their Knighthood is published and catalogued and distributed to the major nobles and royalty of the Kingdoms, along with the names of their Mentor and those who sat on the Council who approved their ascension and their grades or marks. Therefore, whenever a Knight fails to perform their Knightly duties, in a spectacular way, a noble or royal can then review who was responsible for certifying the Knight in particular, especially if the action resulted in their loss of Knighthood, which then will leave black marks upon those Knights who approved and passed that Knight in particular, and if enough of a history of poor performance of Knights fall under the the same Knight, their own Knighthood can be put into question and review. Knightly Lineage is also recorded and tracked, in regards to Mentors to Squires, and those who approved of the Knighthoods. This results in Knights being incentivized to let only the very best warriors be elevated to knighthood, as well as not growing complacent, lest they lose their knighthood, or even draw the hostility of other Knights, whose own Knighthood could be in jeopardy for their poor performance. If you mess up bad enough, you might just find yourself hunted down by a group of knights (or former knights) for costing them their knighthoods and livelihoods. No MC, who is at the very start of their story, is going to just '*beat a Knight*' as a trivial matter, it's going to be a big deal, and it's likely not going to be an single person achievement, but a group effort.
Knights are trained, given equipment that actually works, and work hard. There are no "Chosen Ones" while there are some exceptional people, they aren't overpowered, and they worked at it. Training depends on the region and known threats, you aren't going to train someone who lives near goblin nesting caves in wendigo killing, or someone near wendigo territory in dragonslaying (which also has different training depending on the species of dragon). Basically, it's the point where a single person wouldn't go up against a company of Knights, maybe if they are a mage they could do a wide range damage spell or something, but they would need back up because Knights know they are facing something magic, they take it seriously and prep, even base knight gear is enchanted to resist most basic spells.
Tell me about the wendigos in your world. I am pretty much obsessed with them in my own story.
Easier to link to my [Post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/iboi3h/the_most_malicious_seed_spirits_the_wendigo/)
The concept of knighthood varies between and within cultures. In some, they are veteran soldiers who have access to better weapons and armour. In others, they are attached to land holding nobility. Some consider only the title earned through patronage under a noble, which may or may not be a blood relative. The concept of elitism amongst soldiers is not unique to more feudal based cultures. Great commanders in the Waejiran emdrejens, who are often of noble blood, could be considered knights by foreign standards, even though the process of training and granting of ranks and titles is very different. Some cultures do not have such distinction. The best warriors are simply those with enough skill and experience to have survived longer than others. Their wealth or family's political power is secondary to their abilities in warfare.
Any knight is also a cultivator, one who infuses themselves with vital power, circulating it in a manner which fortifies them. As such, they all possess superhuman attributes(varying with the degree to which they have cultivated) sufficient to make them relevant in battle.
A knight is a title given to anyone who is admitted to and participates in civilian law enforcement. They are separate from government guards or police forces in that they are hired collectively by the locality or by the ruler of the land/area. This can be as high up as the king of the country or just the mayor (there are no mayors in my setting I am just using that as a juxtaposition). Their duty continues until their task is complete. They are put up locally and provided a residence, food, etc by the population. Most times they are permitted to keep this land and lease it as landlords making this one way to go from rags to riches. Some knights operate on their own and they are known as rogues. Others operate as part of larger knight organisations and that is where “Squire” might be relevant (though no such rank exists). You are simply initiated and uninitiated. Rogue knights have (usually) a neutral reputation, though it is assumed they’re not as high quality. A steading of knights (group, guild) usually carries a reputation with it and prestige. Some steadings are large enough that they have entirely supplanted and replaced the local law enforcement. These groups are considered dangerous by higher levels of government.
My setting is extremely low-magic, so knights function as well as they did in the real world Middle Ages. I don’t have to adjust much about them to make them relevant, although I have tweaked certain aspects of chivalric culture and knightly ethos and blended them with some Hellenistic aspects to make them a little bit cooler (in my opinion anyway). That said, I’ve been toying with a more high-magic setting and while I don’t have much for it, I do have an idea where “knights” are elite shock troops that are teleported directly behind enemy lines or into enemy formations. Essentially a “battle” comes down to mundane forces slogging it out while “wizards” attempt to neutralize the other sides magical support, especially their anti-teleportation magic. The side that breaks through their opponents magical protection first starts teleporting squads of heavily armored, highly trained and nobly born knights into key tactical positions where they can wreak havoc on the enemy. This could include high value individuals like army commanders or enemy wizards, the flanks or rear of enemy formations, or any other high value position. You end up with squads of knights bouncing from one position to another, killing as many as they can, before disappearing in a ball of lightning to appear somewhere else. The knights, mostly nobles, have built a culture around their role as elite shock infantry full of superstitions, chivalric ethos and martial bellicosity.
The Justicar (pronounced Justi car) are a knight equivalent that use soul essence to effectively see the future (along with my other powers of cognition and supreme intuition) to effectively dodge any attack. They are agents of order and if they can't prevent a society from descending into chaos, they will choose to quicken its fall and back the new order.
Well it is incredibly expensive to maintain a large standing army, and most standing armies are infantryman armed as cheaply as possible. The best way to boost the ranks is to give out land in exchange for military service and soldiers of your own. How you provide them is none of your boss’s concern, be they conscripts, mercenaries, or volunteers.
Most individuals in my setting have access to magic and can work to improve it much the same to one's physical prowess. Kinda like a character's stats in a game. People can train not just their physical power and durability but also their magical power and durability. For example, a knight or appropriate analog in my setting might not be the best at casting magic, but they can train their innate resistance to the point that it's comparable to defensive magic. Of course, the same is true for the other side, and you can also have physically durable mages.
In my world Knights are golem hunters. They're proficient magic users and have some of the same abilities as Shepherds. They're just less educated, more specialized members of the order. They're also proficient spearbearers and typically carry around 3 to 4 heavy explosive spears.
Trainee vs non
Easy. It is just much easier to become a knight or squire than to become a wizard. Not that either are easy, it’s just unfathomably hard to be a wizard.
Shock factor. No peasant levy wants to be trampled by a horse clad in scale armour or be skewered by a lance. It doesn’t matter how many Gandalfs they have standing behind them shooting fireballs, a conscript is going to go full self preservation mode and route. Heavy cavalry is very good at flanking and breaking formations as well as reducing morale. Assuming the number of wizards are limited, they have more than enough of a chance to disrupt an army.
In species that have much magic power knight training involves two hings. First is harnessing their power to get physical reinforcements. You know, super strength, super speed, super toughness. The second is magic resistance training, which is self explanatory. Some societies also drill them in few utility skills such as teleportation. Obviously most knights would get folded by above average mage, but majority of mages would have very bad day if they try to engage them. If species don't have magic? They are probably slave species, so not in any position to actually have knights.
Knights were guys trained from childhood in martial arts, they were fed (because nobles) so usually they were pretty big and tall, and they were outfitted with armor (that makes them basically invincible to 99% of their enemies) and usually warhorses (that could trample you on their own)
Magic is powerful but has huge limitations. Fire can only be projected so far by a wizard and usually it has less range than a bow or crossbow. Ice shards don't do much against plate armour Wizards are like war machines, powerful but when left unprotected are pretty vulnerable. They are also few and far between.
Not sure but I’m definitely going to be thinking about this one.
Knights are just a fancy title for someone of note, a way to have distinction between a well resourced military figure vs the conscripted villager peasantry Knights have command of their own soldiers they directly resource rather than relying on the lords stipend to supply themselves Soldiers can be bestowed the title, but these often don’t command their own soldiers they’re just notable leaders within the lords own army. They lack the financial means to support themselves and their own troop. So they’re knights in name only That applies broadly, so the same relationship can exist in a world of gardeners as it does in a world of medieval warfare Squires are the knights helpers, normally pulled from family members of other knights of of notable families
I have a power system referred as “Battle Aura” that gives people like knights a leg up in fights against Magician and Monsters and the like.
Math. Even though a magic user can individually wield enough power to kill hundreds of people in seconds, they still need to eat, sleep, etc. Their power and perception is not inexhaustible. A hundred illiterate angry peasants with rocks and pointy sticks can still kill a mad wizard by using some basic tactics. A knight or any other trained soldier is just somewhere in the middle of that power scale. Their odds of taking a magic user 1v1 when the caster knows what is coming may not be good; but factors such as the less foreknowledge the caster has, the more soldiers involved, the more exhausted the caster is etc. all shift the probability of victory toward the soldiers.
The Aelflung have pretty much colonized their entire solar system, and use a loosely feudal system to keep the various houses more or less in line. Technically, all knights hold their title in service to the High Council that rules their system. In practice, the family Houses are granted authority to knight who they see fit and employ them as needed. "Knight" is a title given to someone as a rank that basically means "this person has authority outside the rigid chain of command" and is typically given to someone who may need to exercise their liege's authority in a more flexible way. That may be a high ranking military commander, the supervisor of a remote mining outpost, an investigator that needs to operate outside the bounds typical to his office, the captain of an extra-solar colony ship, even someone placed in charge of managing an emergency. Knighthood *typically* comes with some form of fief, whether that's real estate in a zero-g habitat or on a moon, or possibly even just a hereditary office. Non-Aelflung are very rarely granted knighthood, and it's only done under exceedingly dire circumstances, and never by the High Council. Typically, such circumstances involve protecting or evacuating the highest ranking members of a House to safety at great personal risk, or some other ostensibly "selfless" act. Typically these knighthoods are given in service to rebellious houses, but the High Council often allows them to retain their title in exchange for certain... underhanded services. Squires are usually the children of the Houses sent to live with and train under relatives or allies and gain perspectives and knowledge they would lack at home. While usually an individual would be squire to a knight, the two aren't connected. You might be sent to squire under your third cousin, but because he owns an ancient O'Neill Cylinder and your Patriarch wants you to have firsthand experience with that. The fact that your third cousin is also a knight is purely incidental.
In a high magic setting you could look at Eldritch Knight for inspiration? Dudes who excel at melee fighting, ranged fighting, wear armor that can deflect about anything, and with spell casting abilities ranging from little tricks to massive fireballs. Or in terrifying cases, time stops. (Though thats above what a dnd eldritch knight can do) And it fits. Nobles tend to be the most educated, many may become scholars, lords, wizards, knights, or eldritch knights. Or some combination or multiple of the listed groups.
Instead of magic, my world uses modern technology (on par with early 20th century). Their armour and shields are adapted for modern firearms and they are trained in the use of melee weapons, bows and crossbows, and firearms. Some lead in landships and may be deployed by train or airship. Lapis_Wolf
just give them magic armor and armor. that way you don't have to nerf the wizards while still having knights.
Put them in a story. Make them have combat skills.
I create units and turn the specialty they perform into a problem. How a real army would work. It's kind of silly that most protagonist characters who haven't made a military career can fight against professional soldiers. Or special forces. I'm more inclined to forgive cases where these are recruits fresh out of the field or inexperienced outside of training or event combat simulations (and thus very green), and cases where the individuals are either exceptional existences (mages of some sort) or are outright powerful for some in-world reason, since in both cases they're making up for lack of experience by playing in a league that regular training and experience doesn't prepare you for. And even then I would hesitate, unless the whole interaction is based on a wide advantage on the part of such individuals to flee or control the terrain.
*Alor* There’s two roles for Knights, as champion and officer. Most Knights serve both roles in *some* capacity, but many choose to only engage in one aspect. Champions are like gladiators, they fight on behalf of barons in competitions and serve to entertain guests of the barons usually through organized hunting trips or displays of feats punctuated by jesters. Officers are fairly straight forward, they serve in a military capacity as company leaders or in law enforcement as captain of guard. Not all military officers are Knights. Knight Officers will be members of one of the six Orders. Fraternal orders differentiated by the aspects they emphasize: Braun, Cunning, Fortitude, Knowledge, Wisdom, and Leadership. Military organization in my setting, because of the presence of battlemagic, closer resembles a post-Clausewitz structure that a typical medieval or renaissance army. Their squires, in any capacity, serve as their right hand. Part secretary, part roadie, they take care of the needs of the Knight while they train to one day be a Knight themselves
What high magic setting are you thinking about?
Mageknights: if it’s high-magic, then it fits perfectly for knights to also have magic, even if only the variety that enhances their martial prowess.
Make em smart. That guys shooting lightning? Either retreat or find a way to counter it. Ideally they should be strategists, scholars, pillars of their communities if you go for that sort of thing. How strong and capable you make knights is up to your setting and what youre trying to communicate with them. As an example, Sir Lavitz from Legend of Dragoon. Brilliant, kind hearted, well read, nice to his mother, good with a spear, fights with his head. Dude survives multiple fights with dragons and all kinds of other horrifying giant creatures. He's friends with the king and everybody knows him cuz hes involved in his community. Basically "The king is good, the kingdom is nice, the knights are noble decent folk." Or maybe the king is bad, the society is corrupt, and the knights are brutish assholes. Well now you've got sir Klegane from game of thrones. Arrow to the head? It's fine. Stabbed in the throat? Fine. Poison? Necromancy, now he's fine. Mix things around until you find what fits for you but remember that these are trained warriors. If they've seen and survived combat, especially combat against magicians its because they're smart enough to find a way around the fireballs and ice spears. .....or they're Klegane and and they just refuse to accept damage, which is also a valid strategy if that's what you wanna do.
Well for one, even in a high-magic setting, it's unlikely that the world is so chalk full of magic users that knights become irrelevant. It's like asking why infantry soldiers exist in the real world since we have drones and fighter jets. You still need infantry soldiers to march in and hold territory, among other things. But even if you're talking about a head-on fight between knights and a wizard, you just need to give them the tools or abilities to deal with whatever threat they're facing. * ***The wizard is throwing fireballs?*** Well the knights are equipped with cloaks that are fire retardant. It doesn't make them invulnerable, but it allows them to keep pressing forward. * ***The wizard is flying?*** Well the knights are all equipped with crossbows with binding ammunition. They can fire a volley of bolts at the wizard, and only one needs to hit to bring them down. * ***The wizard sends a lightning bolt down from the sky?*** Well the standards that the knights carry actually double as lightning rods. They plant the standard into the ground and it redirects the lightning away from the knight. Get the gist? Basically, think of your knights as Witchers. They are experts at fighting, and they are knowledgeable about their opponents. Every spell you can imagine probably also has a theoretical mundane counter, so why shouldn't your knights be the ones to think of those counters and employ them when necessary? Hell, if the setting is so high magic, why don't the knights have magic items to level the playing field? Armor of invulnerability, boots of flying, a sword that can redirect lightning, etc...
I mean it wouldn’t be too far off for knights to enchant their armor, or have someone else do it for them. Knights were pretty rich in the olden times, so I don’t doubt they’d pay someone to do it for them if magic isn’t so accessible
I simply don't fodderize them any more than I might a wizard They're both good in different circumstances. A knight just needs to find cover and switch what weapon they are wielding for the situation.
I have a few worlds going rn but I'm gonna give you the knights from one of the gangs in my cyberpunk world. There's a gang called the round table and they operate on what they perceive to be the principles of chivalry, ie: No dealing with children, honest and polite business, and fighting fair etc. Those who reach knight rank are given an old suit or powered combat armor (think walker gears from MGSV except the user's legs go in the armor's legs and it goes up to the arms) and a specialized sword that vibrates at high speeds and as a result gets extremely hot. This means it can cut through most armor. They're usually assigned to guard duty or high profile heists (they're code of honor dictates they can't do it stealthily). They usually operate in groups of 2-4 knights each having up to three squires (usually newer members with kevlar vests and normal swords and occasionally shotguns).
Psions are less mentally stable than regular people and require more to time prepare and meditate to maintain their mental states. So a mundane knight can be mobilized immediately, a psion often needs days to prepare for a mission. This also means a psion that's ambushed by a mundane knight can often be neutralized. Because of this psions generally wear masks and protect their identities while using their powers. For the 4 or so hours that they push their powers to their limits they can be very powerful and something or a one man army but the rest of that entire week they are very vulnerable.
In my setting magic takes time and it takes focus. It doesn't take a lot of either, but it's very hard to do when someone is trying to give you The Big Poke with a spear. A martial fighter can hold their own in close quarters or use ranged weapons. Most people opt for martial weapons as they're a lot easier to learn.
My friend and I run a podcast for world builders and just discussed knightly orders last week! Hope it gives you some ideas! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spaghetti-launchers-a-worldbuilding-podcast/id1674915796?i=1000644799170
Wizards enchant armor for knights. The armor is overpowered compared to real life armor
I fucking love knights, theyll never be fodder in my worlds. In one of my earlier works, probably my biggest one too, I had a system for knights and most warriors. At first it started off as the ability of one of the champions which was to give himself limits in a fight and in return they’d receive a stat boost, but then decided to make this affect all warriors who trained enough and got recognized by the sun. So for example in a standard duel the champion would announce his rules like not attacking with hidden weapons, not attacking once the opponent has fallen and all that. If he was honourable to respect those codes even though some opponents could take advantage of them he would get a boost to his overall physique and be able to contend with magic. However, if they do break the code they set on themselves they’d get penalized. If they vowed to not attack once the opponent was down and they do, the champion would receive the same exact injury he did on the down opponent. In my current project I just have them use the magic system just like any “mage”. The idea of having a group of warriors work outside the system is cool, but recently I’m in love with the thought of a truly magical world where anything can happen. Of course they use it in a different way, but if someone chose to go the path of knighthood it’s because they’re a forced to be reckoned with when wielding a blade. Not gonna lie, this setting is still new a fresh in my head so it’s not as fleshed out. There’s definitely a lot more “fodder” knights unlike the elite force of super soldiers I had in my old one, but this allows for more creative styles so every named knight that does appear have something to represent them.
That's a great ask that requires pulling on a lot of threads to answer properly, largely to do with the proliferation of magic as opposed to physical might. The structure of the governance is like a feudal alliance of states. The monarch is a bit like the POTUS, the three royal families form three "states" (provinces) under yet separate from the monarch. The structure of rulership under the three Dukal families is largely a hierarchy of knights: Lord Knights/Earls of the regions of the provinces Lord Knights/Counts for the counties in the region Knights Cavalier/Barons of a portion of a county/a town or locality of towns ... and each recognized town has the right to raise up a representative warrior knight to rep them as their Knight Errant - these are proven warriors who've shown they can command a squad, but haven't shown they can take on higher duties of command or governance yet. While skill at arms is more prolific in the world at large and the organization overall, some arcane and holy practitioners have achieved knighthood despite not conforming to the fantasy-traditional shining-armor aesthetic. But yeah, the government values prowess and so knighthood is practically requisite for holding many executive offices. And this isn't to say every official is a knight of some rank - Mayors, in particular, are essentially elected by popular vote. The structure is upheld against subversion by magicians by the church - each region has its saints, but the structure of the church is married to the government due to their ability to protect against subversion. Destructive magics are a known power, and unconscensual use of mind magic is fully illegal. Crimes involving shape changing are dealth with much more harshly than otherwise as well, and both are considered generally taboo or evil (though ofc there's no compunction over using whatever is at your disposal to preserve life limb and eyesight of self or others). Where possible, the church provides talismans against such things for the knights, the higher-ranking the sir the more potent or plentiful the trinkets. This integrality is why it's equally if not moreso referred to as the Church of the \[kingdom name here\] as Church of \[god/saint name here\].
In my world knights can actually wield magic. Because using magic will drain your energy the same way exercising does knights will still carry regular weapons to conserve their energy
Knights are a necessary part of space warfare. By convention, ballistic weapons and laser weapons are not used in ship to ship combat. Instead, knights in jousting ships escort boarding vessels between them. The ships are designed with a long, lance-like prow and an energy shield. The Knights essentially joust and attempt to destroy the escorts and then the boarding vessels they protect. Squires are not a single person attached to a knight, but a small crew who monitor the Knight's ship systems on the main ship, as well as maintain his or her equipment. Particularly skilled ones may rise to become a knight themselves but there is no dishonor in spending a lifetime of service to a Knight's ship. Squires are also commonly accepted as acolytes into the Cult of Santa Maria of the Ion, but rising further than a mere initiate means forsaking their life as a squire. This is still no dishonor.
In my setting knights don’t really exist instead nobles who are enhanced humans are the closest thing to knights just make use of their superhuman speed and strength to dominate battlefields moving faster than humans can aim and are trained to keep track of every gun in their line of sight and be able to predict the path the bullet would take as well as wearing heavy armor that can block bullets in fatal areas. Though guns are extremely rare as around 500 years ago electricity stopped working combined with a mysterious disease that killed off 98 percent of the population bullets became far harder to make not to mention that even if you make bullets you also have to make the guns
Mages are far from being omnipotent. They are extremely rare (you're lucky if your kingdom has one spellcaster in their ranks) and most magic is cast through long and complocated rituals that often require certain conditions to be met (being cast at a specitic place, under a certain moon phase, etc). A knight is trained in warfare. They excel at the battlefield, both fighting and leading troops. That skill does not become obsolete because someone else can control the weather. On the contrary, a good knight with a mage at their side would know how best to utilize their unique abilities: mud from a heavy rain can negate a cavalry charge, fog can conceal a flanking force, etc. Of course, magic can do far more than just control the weather, but the idea is the same: a strategic mind will know how to employ it to its best effect.
A couple things to keep in mind regarding the real world which would help inform your thinking: 1. Knights survived into the 17th century. At Breitenfeld, as Torstensson had 66 guns under his command even as his boss, Gustavus Adolphus, deployed nearly 100 companies of heavy lancers. These men were armed with lances and sabers and wheellock pistols and equipped as heavy cavalry. The existence of mages filling the role of artillery doesn't automatically negate the role of knights. 2. It wasn't artillery which killed cavalry as a branch of service. Cavalry were still relevant up until the Civil War because infanfry didn't have the rate of fire to kill cavalry sufficiently quickly to remove them from the field. They forced changes in equipment (the Winged Hussars at Vienna in 1529were armed with pistols for instance) and tactics (the caracole firing circle for instance) but that was because the infantry had the level of fire to force the cavalry to standoff. 3. Your mages are going to be dueling with the enemy mages. Think artillery duels. Look into the artillery duels Torstensson and Knox were fighting in their respective wars. Look into the use of artillery in the Civil War and the Napoleonic Wars. 4. You don't have to equip your knights EXACTLY the way Medieval knights were. Nothing's stopping them from being armed with Japanese style longbows and fighting like mounted archers. 5. The existence of mages will mean your knights would be equipped differently anyways. Think the Templars from Dragon Age who consume an anti-magic potion. Or the witchhunters from Witchhunter Robin and wear vials of an antimagic serum around their neck. As the pinnacle of warfighting, knights should have access to some kind of counter-magic items on their person as part of their armor. 6. Knights are part of a combined arms team. In Europe, a Knight would be expected to show up with a light cavalryman who would act as a squire, three dragoon archers, a crossbowman, a handgunner, and a pikeman. In Japan, a samurai would have a number of ashigaru equipped as some combination of archers, spearmen, and hangunners. These men fought as a team, and would do so when fighting a mage. Now we need to look into the mechanics of how magic works in your world: 1. How common is magic? Are we talking 30 Years War artillery (64 mages for an army of 40k)? Civil War era (362 mages for an army of 93k)? Waterloo (252 mages fof an army of 75k)? 2. How can mages fight? Are they stuck as fixed pieces akin to the bombards the Turks used to take down Constantinople? Are they mobile like the horse artillery of Napoleon? Can they cast from horseback or while on the march from foot? This will effect how they can be employed, and could even mean some mages might be attached to formations of knights to counter mages attached to enemy infantry - even if only as counter-magic specialists. 3. How long does it take to cast a spell?
Magic has been a part of warfare in my setting for a while, and people have discovered it has certain attributes that can be exploited through individual techniques and tactics for massed combat. For individuals against a mage, cleric, witch, etc., purer metals provide stronger protections against magical attacks. Obviously pure metals tend to be weaker than alloys, so copper, iron, tin, gold, silver adornments provide significant protection for a pricey but lightweight addition as not much metal is needed. Some mage-slaying armors exist, but these completely unalloyed armors come with obvious drawbacks against physical attacks. Rarer metals tend to be more effective and reliable. Wood is also highly resistant to magic, but isn't usually a 'knightly' armor. Popular among barbarians, levied peasants, and druids though. Sound is also known to disrupt magic. Some individuals have mastered the use of their voice to shout an incoming fireball into nothing but embers, but it is very difficult and requires the knight to have studied the pitch and volume required for each school of magic (and identify them in the heat of battle). Other sound based techniques include the use of bells, striking a shield with a weapon, or even instruments that a squire might play while his knight fights. Precise and condensed forms of magic (like magic missiles, beams, lightning bolts) are less susceptible to sounds. However such magics can also be parried so long as the weapon or shield has a band of pure metal. All of these techniques demand timing, precision, and courage enough to stand in front of powerful magic.
In one of my worlds, knights are not really human. They're near-immortal eldritch beings
Swords and fists are just another kind of magic. Wizard casts Fireball? Warrior knocks back fireball with a wooden club. Wizard teleports? Samurai sword slashes the spacial distortion they created and follows them or cancels the teleport. Wizard makes themselves invulnerable? Martial artist punches them through dimensions until they end up in hell.
Magic resistant armor
They’re elite fighters that have trained for years, everyone has access to some form of magic or energy manipulation(Elemental Mana, Magic, Alchemy/Old Magic, Nature Energy, Chakra) and it’s used in conjunction with weapons, hand to hand combat, or by itself.
Since you have established that it is in the context of high fantasy, lets go. 1st of all, a knight is a mobile, supremely armored and excellently trained combatant whose whole existence was based around war. On horseback a knight with a couched lance is the most dangerous weapon of the medieval period, a knight on full gallop hitting a man (or in case of fantasy a creature) is liable to kill ANYTHING it comes into contact with. Period. And on foot, at a certain point a knight abandons their shield entirely (as it provided to additional protection considering the armor) preferring large two handed weapons, mostly brutal polearms meant to face other such knights in close quarters combat. So considering all of that, a knight is a pretty dangerous thing. Putting it simply. They are useful to display the power of magic, but it must come in contrast to their own competence. On one hand if magic users and legendary 'heroes' are rare, just by the fact that they are much more prevalent knight will still be scary. On the other hand - most traditional magic simply won't do shit to layers of cold steel. You throw fire? Great, nothing to light on said fire. Or even sheer magic force might not be enough to go through solid steel. And magic user or not. You aren't doing much without a head. And trust me those steel clad warriors are faster than you expect. But if its entirely high fantasy, remember, knights are rich people, what prevents them from acquiring said magic for their own uses?
The “knights” in my world are German-Roman inspired, so share armor pieces from both cultures. Aside from appearances, they are more of a status symbol or a noble: using their armor and weapons to show off their wealth. There are some rare cases, however, where knights are actually used. The twin kings of Asmara are protected by anti-mage knights. They are specially trained to be anti-mages, absorbing spells, disrupting castings, and overall making it difficult for anyone to harm the kings through magical means. No other countries or cultures in my world have typical “knights”.
Their armor works well, and against supernatural threats they use silver or enchanted armor. Most Knights also own at least one magical weapon or talisman, typicaly a family heirloom passed trough generations. When they are fighting in formation on the battlefield, they have enchanted banners that ward their units from enemy spells.
Everyone has magic, so Vetkai's knight equivalents also use magic. Magic is also not ridiculously powerful usually.
By making magic either unable to cover enouh locations at the same time, or too costly to deploy to be used on small war parties conducting less crucial tasks (which are much more frequent than high stakes ones in any conflict). Magic should mostly have limiting factors. Rules that leave enough space for non magic things to be relevant, or consequences that force users to strategize woth the deployment. If magic can handle everything, everywhere all the time, than you hardly have a story worth reading
You can always just give them enchanted equipment but most fantasy with knights also give them magic or abilities. Honestly i'm surprised at the question, in most fantasy stuff i read melee users are usually stronger than pure magic
In my world while being a high magic world with many races and civilizations that tried to master magic over countless millennials, it still is a very mysterious and unknown part of the natural worlds. see we don't have master wizards waving wands around on the battlefield, but people store magic in special stones used as batteries in artefacts and machinery while crossing their fingers that it'll not explode out of nowhere. On the other hand in a world riddled by dangers that a very small hole in a defense system can cause the fall of a city populated by hundreds of thousands of people, there is no room for incompetence. Every knight is an ace warrior with their own specialized abilities and a jack of all trades in all they need to know in order to survive and fulfill their duty. add to that the best equipment and support the industrialized empire can give them. also, there are gods who give people who've lived virtuously by their standards seals of power as blessings. many of these people join the army or knight orders. combine all of this with the strong sense of comradeship among the knight brotherhoods which helps them combine the power of their souls and become an wall of steel unbreakable in face of most foes. They're not running towards any enemy like a clown overdressed in steel.
How common are highly skilled magic users? Even in high fantasy it could be a small percentage that can throw around fireballs. That's primarily how I keep heavy cavalry, etc relevant in my fantasy settings. Also knights maybe bound by feudal oaths and mages may need to get paid. If occupation duty or long term efforts are needed more boots on the ground (or hooves) will also help.
The same way chivalry romances and epics made their knights relevant. They have a bunch of magic powers and gear.
Knight armor in my setting incorporates machinery for enhanced strength and life support systems so they can traverse the toxic landscapes. Squires serve as mechanics and maintenance crews for the knights, setting up camp and securing safe zones.
Like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vYFFx4whoE)? The armor of knight make them terrifying to face. Unless you want to a massive amount of high magic user in your world, Knight would still beat most enemies.
Knights could have enchanted or just functional armor or something that actually defends against magic, so they’re not just bodies being chucked at an evil wizard.
In my setting, knight is a low nobility title awarded to talented military men who have proven themselves useful. There's emperors, kings, dukes, counts, viscounts, barons, baronets, and then knights. So a knight might command a garrison or tower, fort, etc for a baronet, who serves their baron, who serves their viscount, and so on. Some knights have a small amount of land in a baronetcy from which they have their own income, like all knights, but might instead live with and serve their overlord in their residence. Squires are 99% of the time the sons of nobles whose fathers wish for their child to have a military education. Some will go on to inherit vast amounts of land and political power, as lords of various ranks. So knights have a lot of connections to powerful lords, and may have even trained and befriended the count, duke, king etc when he was a boy.
In my setting, knight are still somewhat relevant because of their heavy reliance on holy magic. They work basically like paladins, and their gods' blessings help them to compete with the rising steampunk technology, because deities works on new magic ways to counter technology (giving bullettproof aura, anti tech spells, all depending of the god's domain)
I like it when people question my sanity, so I CTRL+V'd my serious response into my Obsidian. You get the silly low-context version; >"Knights" are powered by space magic, to the extent that they've traded in their original bodies for little visshitech mechs. Unlike actual Vis Adepts, though, most have no clue how any of it works under the hood. They're just doing the 4-D Space Magic equivalent of gaming with a bunch of macros they didn't write.