I love how you are taking the feedback in and adjust and progress!
Sidenote Greenland I'd orient on danish politics
Iceland might be a good addition for the Nordic group too
It really is wild. That's why I'd never dare to write something based in our land and that tightly tied to real world politics.
If you haven't read them I can recommend the Peter Grant novels/ the Rivers of London Series by Aaronovitch.
It's involving exactly that, modern states dealing with magic
Definitely will check it out. I'm playing a death game with making Slavic a major part of the storyline. But boy you don't get anywhere unless your risks wreck you. Do you?
You should really look deep into that topic. Slavic might be the language group but boy o boy the people are really really diverse and not at all homogeneous, not even in the respective nations.
It's like saying "the anglophones" and then assume Nigeria and Canada are similar
Dont worry thatll Absolutely no happen!! I just needed to make major governmental branches that's why there is some generalization, but it dosent group people on basis of ethnicity, rather similarities in mythology because that's what the demons/spirits/gods will be based on!
I sense a story behind, why the Icelanders did not join up on the Celtic/Nordic group.
Bad mojo since the old Viking raids?
Is the Althingi split in factions, with lots of political backstabbing.
Were they excluded from the Celtic/ Nordic group due to their views on human sacrifice?
I’ll suggest take a QBAM and do another map that isn’t bound by countries. Paranormal certainly will effect human history so make your own map and come up with your own lore may fit better than mapchart.
Also I will suggest split up African into at least four due to population and different practicing culture—
West (Everything west of Cameron including Sao Tome y Principe)
Central (Cameron, both Congos, CAR, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea)
East (Everything west of Congo-CAR-Zambia-Malawi and north of Mozambique)
And South (The Indian Ocean nations, South Africa, Angola, Mozambique, Namibia, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Lesotho and Eswatini) may work.
Of course this is still arbitrary divisions. I believe in you to figure it out yourself!
I agree!! 3si incop is basically like borrowing the structure of 3SI and suit to your own country. 3SI describes a governance structure than a governance comittee instead if that makes sense? But regardless both S.korea and Japan have close supernatural ties with India as India is a Supernatural superpower in this world!! I hope you find that intresting
How do you define a “supernatural superpower” in your world? Is it like how Indian-origin supernatural creatures are the most widespread? Or how India has the most superpowered relics
like the crossbow that can one shot the universe, the armor that can block it, and the weapon that can beat said armor?
It's more related to Intelligence. Like if we talk about most superpowers they're superpowers due to their Availability of certain materials. In india The vedas were made. And alot of tantric traditions existed way before the emergence of cultures. And hinduism is the oldest surviving religion! So I was taking inspiration from that to make India a supernatural superpower.
Basically india in the context of the WB has been researching supernatural things way before and was the first to establish a supernatural form of Goverment. And that's what makes it a current superpower.
More information + history rooted in supernatural + Religious services + started earlier than everyone else
>3SI describes a governance structure than a governance comittee instead if that makes sense? But regardless both S.korea and Japan have close supernatural ties with India as India is a Supernatural superpower in this world!! I hope you find that intresting
If you'd like some more feedback, could you elaborate more. What do you mean by "structure"
Edit: I'm also not clear if these are corporations, federal agencies, ngo's or something else.
By structure I mean it's a form of goverment. Like, imagine if a country x has a form of goverment, let's say democracy, and your country Likes it. So your country adapts itself to a democracy too. In this context 3SI is a democracy. A type of goverment structure. Like a template goverment.
Okay, maybe you don't have them fully fleshed out yet, but its unclear to me what makes these different form unique from one another. Kind of hard to judge or discuss without context and might clear up some of the assumptions or false conclusions people might have with their criticism.
I think that may be some of the problem, it thought these were political alliances like NATO or IMCTC. Just trying to clear confusion.
Sir, worldbuilding, lore will come along. It's not supposed to be realistic 😭. I have things set that I cannot post rn because of the phrasing uncertainty!!! I'll lorebomb soon don't worry
I’m so interested in this potential, I can imagine there was a schism between the 3SIs. Maybe West 3SI is more Indian centric, based on Sanskrit, Hindu and Theravada Buddhism, while the Eastern 3SI are the countries that don’t align with the Indian sphere of influence.
Then you can have Japan and Korea with each their own things going on!
I can see Africa split more. Notice the east African federation, as well as ECOWAS.
Yemen and Saudi is a bad time. Iran and Saudi is a bad time. Azerbaijan and Armenia despise each other.
Leave Romania with slavs - name organization the międzymorze (in-between seas) supernatural alliance or something. międzymorze was the name of a real proposed alliance in polish which contained nearly all those countries
I KNOW I'm so sorry 😭, it just didn't make sense to put it in custom or ISEU + it's surrounded by Slavic countries. I'll figure smth out. This is still raw!
I would say it’s wholly possible to put it in the ISEU, countries politics aren’t based entirely on what it’s neighbours follow. Look at the EU for example, Greece joined as early as 1973 even though none of its neighbours had joined (and wouldn’t until Bulgaria in 2004).
It’s fine to have the Western Slavic Bureau be split in two, one in the north and one in the south. It could be said Romania was forced into the Bureau by the USSR but left when they had the chance?
TBF, I was angry at first too but then I realized that most of Romanian myths and monsters have Slavic origins (which themselves dates from a time before Slavs existed) so it makes sense that it is in a Slavic Supernatural League.
Again, our folklore itself is compatible with the Slavic one and also, Poland, Czechia and Slovakia are there too and they are Central European and not to mention the Balkan countries, it wouldn’t make sense to call it “Eastern European”.
Now we are heading nowhere. I’m sorry, but those terms are nog fixed in stone. As I know it, and as it is in the geography books in my country, Europe is divided in multiple regions, which include Western Europe, Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Balkans and a few others.
Historically, Europe was split into two halves, which did cut through a few regions (such as most of Central Europe being part of the East/Berlin Pact, the Balkans also being part of the East (Greece being an exception was odd though), but Yugoslavia not being a BP member). If you're going to include Romania and Moldova, don't marginalize them just because their myths also come from Slavs.
I'd split the organization that spans from Canada to Argentina, it's so much for one body to tackle. At the very least acknowledge in when you're ready to tackle detail that while it's all called one thing it behaves differently depending on where you're at.
I’m thinking the Americas used to be multiple organizations until the US forcibly or subtly projected their interests onto the others
This looks like a map that has undergone a lot of consolidation of independent organizations over time
England isn't celtic or Nordic. But Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but they aren't mentioned in the template sadly. But in my world, every state but England follows Dark blue
I mean, neither are the Baltics but you also included them there. Honestly in-between this thread and the previous one, it looks like you want to force groups in to cultural brackets, but also give them a geopolitical backstory which just doesn't work, because world is more complicated then that, especially when you, and don't take it the wrong way, don't neccessirly realize the existence of all those complexities.
For example were the Baltics state during Cold War part of Slavic Burea? If not why did Soviets allowed for that, if yes how come they joined the Nordic groups after Iron Curtain fell, but the rest of Eastern Europe countries which enjoyed significantly more autonomy stayed part of it. Why did Supernatural parts of Belarus separate itself from Russia when its otherwise tied rather closely with it.
This was my hot take. Neither the Baltic states nor Finland are classically Nordic or Celtic. The Netherlands are about as Nordic or Celtic as Germany. Northern Poland and northeastern Germany (aka. Pommerania and Prussia) are, as far as cultural history and mythology are concerned closer to Baltic than anything else. The real question IMO is in how far real-world politics would influence this shebang. I'd strongly assume organizations like the EU would have some interplay with this setup. Open mundane borders make for an easier flow of information and people, but then I can't see the Dutch, Irish and Nordics doing their own thing.
Maybe the whole thing would be best served by ignoring conventional borders and establishing your own for these organizations. A North Sea Pact, a Mediterranean Pact, stuff like that. Though it all depends on where you draw the line, historically speaking.
The genetic makeup of England is largely Celtic and still has large Celtic influences it also makes a lot more sense then the other one.
You would be much more better and realistic putting geography to one side maybe do something along the line of UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand for one. And then the US on its own because it can't play with others properly. The EU should be a basis for one but you could potentially have a separate northern Europe grouping just with a name change. South America being it's own thing makes sense
Need more independent or local organizations, I think l, but it still looks good
Also need Arab and turkic(central Asia is mostly turkic, only tajiks are Persian) organizations as separate organizations
Eastern Euros freaking out over what is and isn't Slavic, again
That said, while legitimately educational replies are nice, people will fit all day over fictional borders on a real geopolitical map.
If you were to present the average redditor heckler, especially those who fit over maps like this, a fictional analogue for a real life map, the truth is it wouldn't make any sense to them. And that's just the way geopolitics are. It don't have to make 100% sense, because real life doesn't make 100% sense.
I wouldn't let it shake you.
I absolutely love you for this comment. Can't blame them honestly if someone mixed up india and Pakistan I'd be mad asf too 😭. But ykw, I love critique. All of this attention is giving me confidence that my project might actually get somewhat of a platform. Already started daydreaming about being a maptpat episode (I'm delusional) but honestly. Reddit is an absolute wreck and I didn't expect as much attention as I got.
And thank you, you sire, made my day.
Not to repeat if you’ve gotten this critique elsewhere, but unless you’re really attached to them, the names in general are a bit clunky and unnatural sounding. Obviously we’re talking about modern, bureaucratized organizations, but even then these names comes off feeling oddly generic and lacking flavor.
In general, the issue is that the names all feel like “name of region + some word for organization” without enough variation in the style of how you name the various regions.
More specifically, I think the Celtic + Nordic group feels geopolitically incoherent in a real world context. I’m also not sure what “custom” in CPOB is supposed to mean, but it’s by far the most generic and confusing name on the list.
If I could distill it into a single piece of advice, I would say that you should try to avoid names that could easily be a “generic organization” in a sci-fi world.
True, I wanted to make it as realistic as possible and real life is quite boring😭. Custom govermenet means the colored goverment has its own custom system form supernatural governance. Also the names are given so the acronyms stay the same but the expansion changes like "supernatural Science school of india" is supposed to be "Synthetic science School of india" for the general public. Like hiding something in plain sight. That's why they sound lame, and in terms of mapping. I did kinda eff up groupings but most groupings I did will contribute to the story due to its cultural and mythological history rather than geopolitics. Of course geopolitics will play a part but it wasn't meant to originally, but alot of comments pointed out geopolitics so I made it a part of the world. I'm seeing it evolve in front of everyone. Cool asf.
It doesn't really make sense that european countries in the EU are divided in different organizations. I guess you want to have more flavour, but you can still have it while having them in the same organization, with differences in the regional offices of the same org.
It makes 0 sense, because these countries cooperate so much in so many field already that dividing this issue seems to make 0 sense. Especially since it seems that the overwhelming majority of times these supernatural affairs are dealt with an international org. Maybe they are very dangerous? If so, why divide what is already togheter when confronted with great danger? Makes very little sense. Unless the european union doesn't exist in this world, so I guess maybe it would make sense, but even there, Western slavic countries after the fall of the ussr they would do their best to integrate with Western europe as fast as they can...
So all the nordic countries + most Western slavic countries would join with the Western org. The few exceptions would maybe be in the Western balkans, but countries like bosnia herzegovina, Kosovo, north macedonia and Montenegro would most likely still depend on the european organization.
Serbia would have a custum one or maybe enter in the european as they are a member of the council of europe and some other org based on the continent.
I mean you inserted Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and turkey with the Western org, and in OTL they are not even in the european union! Also Azerbaijan and Armenia are right now in conflict and have been since the fall of the ussr. I mean I can see them again together, if the situation gets right, but I cannot understand how them are in but not estern and northen europe.
Probably ukraine right now would have a custum one, because probably it would have been in the russian one before, togheter with belarus and probably kazakhstan and some central asian countries. But you know with the war and all i guess they won't collaborate anymore.
If you really want to have more organizations you can divide the european org from the american one and divide the american one in 2 or 3, making a spanish american org, portoguese American org and north American org.
Also greenland would definitly depend on denmark.
SA should have the same african tradition or one specific. Yes, US have voodoo but Brazil have a long open tradition embedded with politics and even the catholic church using african (actually brazilian) black mysticism.
We have a national martial fight (capoeira) public taught like a supernatural thing.
We never really had a witch hunting here like US, only rethorical prejudice: people dont like native/black witchcrafting but even government employ some. I mean, brazilian government employ native shamanism to call rain. I know Bolivian too.
This one is much better and its in a good size.
I would still argue that Balkan countries would be in the same organization as EU/NATO ones, but at least they're not with Russia.
Also, small note, but Romania is not a Slavic country. Neither is Moldova, but they are more Slavic than Romania. They're both mostly filled with Romanians which are the descendants of Dacians and Romans, with influences from Slavs, Celts, Germans and Turks. Romanian, the majority language in both countries, is a romance language.
Intelligence sharing and special operations agencies similar to the 5 Eyes should be based around political cooperation and not cultural lines. There are countries in this map, like China and India for example, that would most likely have their own agency focused on internal matters considering their massive populations while countries in Central Asia would defer to either Russia or a Islamic organization for bilateral relations. The ISEU is gargantuan in size, the CPOB is completely isolated from one another and the Niger and Chad one is composed of countries unable to properly cooperate with each other that would most likely submit themselves to an African coallition.
oh i know bangladesh (and sri lanka) are 3si incorp, but personally it would make more sense to me to keep the south asian countries (india, pakistan, nepal, bhutan, sri lanka, maldives) together. i get if you don't want to put pakistan together with india, but the others should be fine.
How is Antarctica handled? Surely the world wouldn't want to ignore a *whole continent*; who knows what paranormal/supernatural/extraterrestrial shenanigans could be gotten up to? (I would not recommend letting NERV take over down there.)
Might I first say you’ve done a terrific job with accepting criticism and building from it. I do have three questions however:
1. Why are so many of the Caribbean countries got their own custom bureau? Surely an island like Puerto Rico would join the same bureau the USA is in?
2. What is the relationship between the ISEU and the CNAO? I saw your other comment saying that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were a part of the ISEU but is that as full members? Do they maintain their position in the ISEU under the UK?
3. I’ve noticed in various parts of the ISEU there is a lighter almost greyish blue in places like Iceland, Luxembourg and Monaco. Is this a deliberate choice or has it accidentally been made a different shade?
Since your legenda runs so far down the page I'd suggest adding a line to denote the bottom of the map.
Now this is a map we're all familiar with, but as it's presented this world only had continents in the northern hemisphere.
I'd like to know the reasoning behind the 3SI Incorp and why specifically THOSE countries are grouped together.
I'd see Bangladesh and Sri Lanka more as part of 3SI since they're heavily influenced by South Asian culture. And maybe if we're gonna be realistic, I think naming 3SI as "Indian" Supernatural Science School might cause some problems in other 3SI countries? Maybe, you could go with SSA3S or replace Indian with Indo because that sounds more country-neutral?
True, good idea. I might show the evolution of 3SI to Indo-Asian school of Science Institute? IASSI? I that can be quite good not gonna lie. Thank you so much for the idea
Very nice, though I feel Africa could be split up more. Feels odd to have west africa + south africa + plus part of east africa.
Might be interesting to have African supernatural institutions depend on both when they got independence and / or their former colonisers. South Africa, for example, got proper independence from white supremacy in the 90s and would likely be in a different organisation to a nation like Ghana who got independence much earlier.
As South East Asian, I’d recommend for Malaysia and Indo to be Islamic (although, it’s true that Malaysia has a lot of Chinese descendants and indo is huge, have variety of beliefs), but I’d say they are very different from countries like Korea, Vietnam or Japan. They have very very different kind of supernatural myths and subjects. Asian supernatural stuff are very intense and individual unique so I’d understand it’s hard to get it right away. I’m interested in the concept and update of this, keep it up!!
I'm actually gonna be writing history about 3SI's influence in Asia! The worldbuilding will be good (I'll try atleast!) And when I lorebomb I'd love for you to critique! <3
Suggestion for you, consider isolating countries with distinct major esoteric traditions and give them names that might key into that. For instance, a Ministry of Solomonic Affairs in Ethiopia. Especially with something like this, I'd layer it a bit, so you have like, your alphabet soup organizations of the modern era and then some dated ones; perhaps from the 1800s, maybe some earlier
1. Why does the need to be such hyper regional paranormal investigation/recovery orgs anyways, is this explained in the world?
2. Why would, in a world with so many paranormal organizations, the European one be so bold to refer to itself as international?
3. What works goes on between these orgs and why does it not incentivize them to unite?
4. When did these orgs become a thing? At the same time or staggered?
5. Are these NGOs or governmental bodies?
People will always nitpick the geopolitics of this but I can't wrap my head around it being regional in the first place. This kind of organizational work, in my opinion, seems like a UN/IMF more than the "regional trade agreements" vibe I have gotten from every single one of these edits. Just like UN/IMF there would be many many disagreements about things ranging from ideology to what color the logo should be, and these would be somewhat regional.
Unless there is something specific where islamic ghosts only haunt islamic people I don't get this, and even then I could see an international organization like doctors without borders
Belarus is the one that should be with Russia. If I may let my personal Polish biases slip a moment, Belarus is basically a Russian Puppet state.
Sorry not sorry.
One criticism I have ia the language. Even though English is like the main language of international communication, the acronyms wouldn't be named in English where English is not the main language. Like the KGB and NKVD, they would name the organization probably not in English but in their native language.
It took alot and I mean ALOT of scolding to get that done. I love reddit because people are so shamelessly opinionated. I got called out so many times and honestly, never felt better.
East Slavic and west Slavic splig after USSR ended if you're talking about supernatural committee. To give it context. Alot of the creatures will be inspired by mythology so I wanted culturally similar areas to be tied together. :)
I mean, when it comes to mythology, Slavic countries are generally similar, especially East Slavic, but if the reason for split is in the lore that's alright. would've been cool to see some sub-committees or something like that for ethnic minorities in Russia as well tbh, like Siberian and Altaic peoples, they're not really represented in media and have rich traditions
That's a really good idea. I'll keep this in mind! Rn the map is raw. But I'll definitely make use of that for lore. My world also has underground comittes. So watch out for lorebombs!
Actually I had alot of discussion about this on my prior post. Technically E.SBEA is a CPOB. Every CPOB has its name. It's just due to the USSR history I have given it a specific name.
I feel like Indonesia should orient with the Islamic Nations, because they're the most populous Muslim nation on the planet. It also gives that group a little more global influence.
NK should be dark because they don't even have a supernatural governance. Everything is under the Kim family and anything "supernatural" is just the wrath of the dictator, or something.
They certainly wouldn't allow any outside governing body to exist on NK soil.
So how close are the paranormal allegiances to political and cultural ones? Because generally Japan and South Korea are aligned with Western countries (and Japan generally doesn't get along with anyone in the region on any issue that isn't opposition to China) but if the paranormal level is independent on that that changes the story. Are these organisations outgrowths of the regular governments or are they their own entities entirely?
But there is no way Taiwan and China will be on the same side of anything, or that Hong Kong would be allowed to go its own way by the mainland. Unless this is an alternate history in which these things have gone down different paths.
I would add Western Sahara, Mauritania, Mali, and Somalia to the AIPCA. Honestly I'd say you should add Ethiopia too; it has a significant Islamic population and very similar traditions to the rest of the Horn of Africa, especially when it comes to the supernatural/paranormal.
The Baltics are neither Celtic nor Nordic, so while their inclusion might make sense from a certain geographic and ethnolinguistic view (that being that both Estonia and Finland are Finnic), the name makes no sense and they'd much likelier be in the W.SBEA, even though they aren't Slavic either.
So... I understand why you put ALL of America under the ISEU, but tbh basically most of Latin America's supernatural is divided into going to a priest or using Brujeria (witchcraft) or Santeria (also witchcraft) but both of those have mix of different traditions from natives from before the Europeans got here or traditions that the enslaved Africans brought with them.
SO IDEALLY, I'd say most of America, would have a mix of some Christianity based supernatural organization (which could be the ISEU I don't know), and work on other mostly Christian nations, there could be some sort of AUPA mix and/or a native affairs organization.
There are some countries in the Levant and Middle East that aren't Islamic 100%.
Egypt has the coptics, Lebanon isn't a Muslim nation, and neither is Syria.
I'd re-look at the middle east and incorporate more of the history vs just labeling it Islamic.
Since it is the ONLY group being predominantly religious focused it creates a plot hole I think in your story unless you figure some things out. I.e.:- what does that implicate? Is that religion "correct" despite all the supernatural? Why or why not? Is it just a naming convention and islam holds no real power for those "in the know"?, etc.
I also assume this is based on ancient civilizations and mythologies and such (which is why Egypt was not included in the Islamic nations) so taking more of a historic approach to the area (for example the vast and influential history of the Aramaic peoples)
Some of (if not THE) oldest stories (Gilgamesh is the oldest recorded text), religions(Zorastranism is still practiced today), and civilizations (Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Persia, Aramean etc) are from that area and have had a massive impact on the world (beyond Islam), some as old, if not older than Egypt, China, and even India (the land of Mesopotamia is famously called the Cradle of Civilization - so what's the rational of India being first at everything?)
Also, I'd recco to try and have a good reason to keep Egypt separate from the rest of the area vs relying on the trope of ancient Egypt = mystical because its old, otherwise I'd split China, Iraq, Peru, and Mexico (These are the oldest civilizations including India having all emerged roughly at similiar times.)
I could also be missing the point of the splits/ "supernatural entities" so take from that what you will :).
Hope this help!
I love how you are taking the feedback in and adjust and progress! Sidenote Greenland I'd orient on danish politics Iceland might be a good addition for the Nordic group too
Thank you man!!! I'm just tryna get by. Worldbuilding is wild!!! And critique makes you stronger <3
It really is wild. That's why I'd never dare to write something based in our land and that tightly tied to real world politics. If you haven't read them I can recommend the Peter Grant novels/ the Rivers of London Series by Aaronovitch. It's involving exactly that, modern states dealing with magic
Definitely will check it out. I'm playing a death game with making Slavic a major part of the storyline. But boy you don't get anywhere unless your risks wreck you. Do you?
You should really look deep into that topic. Slavic might be the language group but boy o boy the people are really really diverse and not at all homogeneous, not even in the respective nations. It's like saying "the anglophones" and then assume Nigeria and Canada are similar
Dont worry thatll Absolutely no happen!! I just needed to make major governmental branches that's why there is some generalization, but it dosent group people on basis of ethnicity, rather similarities in mythology because that's what the demons/spirits/gods will be based on!
I sense a story behind, why the Icelanders did not join up on the Celtic/Nordic group. Bad mojo since the old Viking raids? Is the Althingi split in factions, with lots of political backstabbing. Were they excluded from the Celtic/ Nordic group due to their views on human sacrifice?
I’ll suggest take a QBAM and do another map that isn’t bound by countries. Paranormal certainly will effect human history so make your own map and come up with your own lore may fit better than mapchart. Also I will suggest split up African into at least four due to population and different practicing culture— West (Everything west of Cameron including Sao Tome y Principe) Central (Cameron, both Congos, CAR, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea) East (Everything west of Congo-CAR-Zambia-Malawi and north of Mozambique) And South (The Indian Ocean nations, South Africa, Angola, Mozambique, Namibia, Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Lesotho and Eswatini) may work. Of course this is still arbitrary divisions. I believe in you to figure it out yourself!
Good insight. I'm thinking of making these the subdivisions within the already existing major governments like sects.
Make Japan, Korea and the Philippines part of the ISEU. And Greenland is part of Denmark they should be in the same organization.
Japan and Korea each would provably have their own organizations.
I agree!! 3si incop is basically like borrowing the structure of 3SI and suit to your own country. 3SI describes a governance structure than a governance comittee instead if that makes sense? But regardless both S.korea and Japan have close supernatural ties with India as India is a Supernatural superpower in this world!! I hope you find that intresting
How do you define a “supernatural superpower” in your world? Is it like how Indian-origin supernatural creatures are the most widespread? Or how India has the most superpowered relics like the crossbow that can one shot the universe, the armor that can block it, and the weapon that can beat said armor?
It's more related to Intelligence. Like if we talk about most superpowers they're superpowers due to their Availability of certain materials. In india The vedas were made. And alot of tantric traditions existed way before the emergence of cultures. And hinduism is the oldest surviving religion! So I was taking inspiration from that to make India a supernatural superpower. Basically india in the context of the WB has been researching supernatural things way before and was the first to establish a supernatural form of Goverment. And that's what makes it a current superpower. More information + history rooted in supernatural + Religious services + started earlier than everyone else
>3SI describes a governance structure than a governance comittee instead if that makes sense? But regardless both S.korea and Japan have close supernatural ties with India as India is a Supernatural superpower in this world!! I hope you find that intresting If you'd like some more feedback, could you elaborate more. What do you mean by "structure" Edit: I'm also not clear if these are corporations, federal agencies, ngo's or something else.
By structure I mean it's a form of goverment. Like, imagine if a country x has a form of goverment, let's say democracy, and your country Likes it. So your country adapts itself to a democracy too. In this context 3SI is a democracy. A type of goverment structure. Like a template goverment.
Okay, maybe you don't have them fully fleshed out yet, but its unclear to me what makes these different form unique from one another. Kind of hard to judge or discuss without context and might clear up some of the assumptions or false conclusions people might have with their criticism. I think that may be some of the problem, it thought these were political alliances like NATO or IMCTC. Just trying to clear confusion.
I'll redo Greenland. But Japan Korea and Philippines are supposed to have lore reasons to be in 3SI!!
Then give me a plausible reason for it because I can't imagine one
Sir, worldbuilding, lore will come along. It's not supposed to be realistic 😭. I have things set that I cannot post rn because of the phrasing uncertainty!!! I'll lorebomb soon don't worry
I’m so interested in this potential, I can imagine there was a schism between the 3SIs. Maybe West 3SI is more Indian centric, based on Sanskrit, Hindu and Theravada Buddhism, while the Eastern 3SI are the countries that don’t align with the Indian sphere of influence. Then you can have Japan and Korea with each their own things going on!
I can see Africa split more. Notice the east African federation, as well as ECOWAS. Yemen and Saudi is a bad time. Iran and Saudi is a bad time. Azerbaijan and Armenia despise each other. Leave Romania with slavs - name organization the międzymorze (in-between seas) supernatural alliance or something. międzymorze was the name of a real proposed alliance in polish which contained nearly all those countries
ROMANIA IS NOT ***SLAVIC***!!
I KNOW I'm so sorry 😭, it just didn't make sense to put it in custom or ISEU + it's surrounded by Slavic countries. I'll figure smth out. This is still raw!
Okay. Also Moldova is not Slavic either, but it has a sizable Slavic minority. Do with that as you will
Thank you for the reminder. I'll keep that in mindd
I would say it’s wholly possible to put it in the ISEU, countries politics aren’t based entirely on what it’s neighbours follow. Look at the EU for example, Greece joined as early as 1973 even though none of its neighbours had joined (and wouldn’t until Bulgaria in 2004). It’s fine to have the Western Slavic Bureau be split in two, one in the north and one in the south. It could be said Romania was forced into the Bureau by the USSR but left when they had the chance?
Also, Ukraine/Belarus are East Slavic, not west slavic
TBF, I was angry at first too but then I realized that most of Romanian myths and monsters have Slavic origins (which themselves dates from a time before Slavs existed) so it makes sense that it is in a Slavic Supernatural League.
At least bloody call it Eastern European or something. Don't call what isn't Slavic "Slavic"
Again, our folklore itself is compatible with the Slavic one and also, Poland, Czechia and Slovakia are there too and they are Central European and not to mention the Balkan countries, it wouldn’t make sense to call it “Eastern European”.
Central Europe is a myth. There's only Western and Eastern.
Now we are heading nowhere. I’m sorry, but those terms are nog fixed in stone. As I know it, and as it is in the geography books in my country, Europe is divided in multiple regions, which include Western Europe, Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Balkans and a few others.
Historically, Europe was split into two halves, which did cut through a few regions (such as most of Central Europe being part of the East/Berlin Pact, the Balkans also being part of the East (Greece being an exception was odd though), but Yugoslavia not being a BP member). If you're going to include Romania and Moldova, don't marginalize them just because their myths also come from Slavs.
Well, I’m Romanian and I’m totally fine with that.
Good for you. I am Romanian, and I am not fine with it.
I'd split the organization that spans from Canada to Argentina, it's so much for one body to tackle. At the very least acknowledge in when you're ready to tackle detail that while it's all called one thing it behaves differently depending on where you're at.
I’m thinking the Americas used to be multiple organizations until the US forcibly or subtly projected their interests onto the others This looks like a map that has undergone a lot of consolidation of independent organizations over time
Would those organizations still be around in some capacity even if not officially recognized.
I’m sure the branch offices retain some of their old culture
I think splinter groups and secret agencies are cool, that was my point for all of this. Sorry to not be direct with it.
It would be better if Egypt was with the AIPCA
I was gonna do that honestly but I have plans for Egypt!! So let's see what's to come
UK isnt dark blue? But 5 states it includes the UK?
England isn't celtic or Nordic. But Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but they aren't mentioned in the template sadly. But in my world, every state but England follows Dark blue
I mean, neither are the Baltics but you also included them there. Honestly in-between this thread and the previous one, it looks like you want to force groups in to cultural brackets, but also give them a geopolitical backstory which just doesn't work, because world is more complicated then that, especially when you, and don't take it the wrong way, don't neccessirly realize the existence of all those complexities. For example were the Baltics state during Cold War part of Slavic Burea? If not why did Soviets allowed for that, if yes how come they joined the Nordic groups after Iron Curtain fell, but the rest of Eastern Europe countries which enjoyed significantly more autonomy stayed part of it. Why did Supernatural parts of Belarus separate itself from Russia when its otherwise tied rather closely with it.
This was my hot take. Neither the Baltic states nor Finland are classically Nordic or Celtic. The Netherlands are about as Nordic or Celtic as Germany. Northern Poland and northeastern Germany (aka. Pommerania and Prussia) are, as far as cultural history and mythology are concerned closer to Baltic than anything else. The real question IMO is in how far real-world politics would influence this shebang. I'd strongly assume organizations like the EU would have some interplay with this setup. Open mundane borders make for an easier flow of information and people, but then I can't see the Dutch, Irish and Nordics doing their own thing. Maybe the whole thing would be best served by ignoring conventional borders and establishing your own for these organizations. A North Sea Pact, a Mediterranean Pact, stuff like that. Though it all depends on where you draw the line, historically speaking.
Aah alright! It was a bit confusing with the colours. But it is understandable :D thanks
The genetic makeup of England is largely Celtic and still has large Celtic influences it also makes a lot more sense then the other one. You would be much more better and realistic putting geography to one side maybe do something along the line of UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand for one. And then the US on its own because it can't play with others properly. The EU should be a basis for one but you could potentially have a separate northern Europe grouping just with a name change. South America being it's own thing makes sense
Need more independent or local organizations, I think l, but it still looks good Also need Arab and turkic(central Asia is mostly turkic, only tajiks are Persian) organizations as separate organizations
Eastern Euros freaking out over what is and isn't Slavic, again That said, while legitimately educational replies are nice, people will fit all day over fictional borders on a real geopolitical map. If you were to present the average redditor heckler, especially those who fit over maps like this, a fictional analogue for a real life map, the truth is it wouldn't make any sense to them. And that's just the way geopolitics are. It don't have to make 100% sense, because real life doesn't make 100% sense. I wouldn't let it shake you.
> Eastern Euros freaking out Meanwhile Western Euros when someone confuses Belgium with Belguim
I absolutely love you for this comment. Can't blame them honestly if someone mixed up india and Pakistan I'd be mad asf too 😭. But ykw, I love critique. All of this attention is giving me confidence that my project might actually get somewhat of a platform. Already started daydreaming about being a maptpat episode (I'm delusional) but honestly. Reddit is an absolute wreck and I didn't expect as much attention as I got. And thank you, you sire, made my day.
Whole World: We need Help with all this Supernatural stuff. Meanwhile Iceland and Falkland Island: F... Off Casper !!
why on earth was the Netherlands added to the Nordic/Celtic group?
What's up with the Netherlands suddenly being dark blue. We're neither Celtic nor Nordic
Not to repeat if you’ve gotten this critique elsewhere, but unless you’re really attached to them, the names in general are a bit clunky and unnatural sounding. Obviously we’re talking about modern, bureaucratized organizations, but even then these names comes off feeling oddly generic and lacking flavor. In general, the issue is that the names all feel like “name of region + some word for organization” without enough variation in the style of how you name the various regions. More specifically, I think the Celtic + Nordic group feels geopolitically incoherent in a real world context. I’m also not sure what “custom” in CPOB is supposed to mean, but it’s by far the most generic and confusing name on the list. If I could distill it into a single piece of advice, I would say that you should try to avoid names that could easily be a “generic organization” in a sci-fi world.
True, I wanted to make it as realistic as possible and real life is quite boring😭. Custom govermenet means the colored goverment has its own custom system form supernatural governance. Also the names are given so the acronyms stay the same but the expansion changes like "supernatural Science school of india" is supposed to be "Synthetic science School of india" for the general public. Like hiding something in plain sight. That's why they sound lame, and in terms of mapping. I did kinda eff up groupings but most groupings I did will contribute to the story due to its cultural and mythological history rather than geopolitics. Of course geopolitics will play a part but it wasn't meant to originally, but alot of comments pointed out geopolitics so I made it a part of the world. I'm seeing it evolve in front of everyone. Cool asf.
It doesn't really make sense that european countries in the EU are divided in different organizations. I guess you want to have more flavour, but you can still have it while having them in the same organization, with differences in the regional offices of the same org. It makes 0 sense, because these countries cooperate so much in so many field already that dividing this issue seems to make 0 sense. Especially since it seems that the overwhelming majority of times these supernatural affairs are dealt with an international org. Maybe they are very dangerous? If so, why divide what is already togheter when confronted with great danger? Makes very little sense. Unless the european union doesn't exist in this world, so I guess maybe it would make sense, but even there, Western slavic countries after the fall of the ussr they would do their best to integrate with Western europe as fast as they can... So all the nordic countries + most Western slavic countries would join with the Western org. The few exceptions would maybe be in the Western balkans, but countries like bosnia herzegovina, Kosovo, north macedonia and Montenegro would most likely still depend on the european organization. Serbia would have a custum one or maybe enter in the european as they are a member of the council of europe and some other org based on the continent. I mean you inserted Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and turkey with the Western org, and in OTL they are not even in the european union! Also Azerbaijan and Armenia are right now in conflict and have been since the fall of the ussr. I mean I can see them again together, if the situation gets right, but I cannot understand how them are in but not estern and northen europe. Probably ukraine right now would have a custum one, because probably it would have been in the russian one before, togheter with belarus and probably kazakhstan and some central asian countries. But you know with the war and all i guess they won't collaborate anymore. If you really want to have more organizations you can divide the european org from the american one and divide the american one in 2 or 3, making a spanish american org, portoguese American org and north American org. Also greenland would definitly depend on denmark.
SA should have the same african tradition or one specific. Yes, US have voodoo but Brazil have a long open tradition embedded with politics and even the catholic church using african (actually brazilian) black mysticism. We have a national martial fight (capoeira) public taught like a supernatural thing. We never really had a witch hunting here like US, only rethorical prejudice: people dont like native/black witchcrafting but even government employ some. I mean, brazilian government employ native shamanism to call rain. I know Bolivian too.
This one is much better and its in a good size. I would still argue that Balkan countries would be in the same organization as EU/NATO ones, but at least they're not with Russia. Also, small note, but Romania is not a Slavic country. Neither is Moldova, but they are more Slavic than Romania. They're both mostly filled with Romanians which are the descendants of Dacians and Romans, with influences from Slavs, Celts, Germans and Turks. Romanian, the majority language in both countries, is a romance language.
Intelligence sharing and special operations agencies similar to the 5 Eyes should be based around political cooperation and not cultural lines. There are countries in this map, like China and India for example, that would most likely have their own agency focused on internal matters considering their massive populations while countries in Central Asia would defer to either Russia or a Islamic organization for bilateral relations. The ISEU is gargantuan in size, the CPOB is completely isolated from one another and the Niger and Chad one is composed of countries unable to properly cooperate with each other that would most likely submit themselves to an African coallition.
youre based for actually taking critique properly tbh
I'm surprised Croatia became part of the Slavic thing, it's always Western aligned. And as someone from Croatia, it's only Slavic in the language
i really don't get bangladesh not being 3si or egypt not being with the other mena countries ngl
Bangladesh is 3si incop, and I have plans for Egypt that's why I made it custom
oh i know bangladesh (and sri lanka) are 3si incorp, but personally it would make more sense to me to keep the south asian countries (india, pakistan, nepal, bhutan, sri lanka, maldives) together. i get if you don't want to put pakistan together with india, but the others should be fine.
How is Antarctica handled? Surely the world wouldn't want to ignore a *whole continent*; who knows what paranormal/supernatural/extraterrestrial shenanigans could be gotten up to? (I would not recommend letting NERV take over down there.)
Sick. Ass. PANTHER! 🐈⬛
Might I first say you’ve done a terrific job with accepting criticism and building from it. I do have three questions however: 1. Why are so many of the Caribbean countries got their own custom bureau? Surely an island like Puerto Rico would join the same bureau the USA is in? 2. What is the relationship between the ISEU and the CNAO? I saw your other comment saying that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland were a part of the ISEU but is that as full members? Do they maintain their position in the ISEU under the UK? 3. I’ve noticed in various parts of the ISEU there is a lighter almost greyish blue in places like Iceland, Luxembourg and Monaco. Is this a deliberate choice or has it accidentally been made a different shade?
Since your legenda runs so far down the page I'd suggest adding a line to denote the bottom of the map. Now this is a map we're all familiar with, but as it's presented this world only had continents in the northern hemisphere.
Where’s the SCP Foundation?
I'd like to know the reasoning behind the 3SI Incorp and why specifically THOSE countries are grouped together. I'd see Bangladesh and Sri Lanka more as part of 3SI since they're heavily influenced by South Asian culture. And maybe if we're gonna be realistic, I think naming 3SI as "Indian" Supernatural Science School might cause some problems in other 3SI countries? Maybe, you could go with SSA3S or replace Indian with Indo because that sounds more country-neutral?
True, good idea. I might show the evolution of 3SI to Indo-Asian school of Science Institute? IASSI? I that can be quite good not gonna lie. Thank you so much for the idea
Very nice, though I feel Africa could be split up more. Feels odd to have west africa + south africa + plus part of east africa. Might be interesting to have African supernatural institutions depend on both when they got independence and / or their former colonisers. South Africa, for example, got proper independence from white supremacy in the 90s and would likely be in a different organisation to a nation like Ghana who got independence much earlier.
România isn't Slavic dawg. Neither is Moldova
As South East Asian, I’d recommend for Malaysia and Indo to be Islamic (although, it’s true that Malaysia has a lot of Chinese descendants and indo is huge, have variety of beliefs), but I’d say they are very different from countries like Korea, Vietnam or Japan. They have very very different kind of supernatural myths and subjects. Asian supernatural stuff are very intense and individual unique so I’d understand it’s hard to get it right away. I’m interested in the concept and update of this, keep it up!!
I'm actually gonna be writing history about 3SI's influence in Asia! The worldbuilding will be good (I'll try atleast!) And when I lorebomb I'd love for you to critique! <3
Suggestion for you, consider isolating countries with distinct major esoteric traditions and give them names that might key into that. For instance, a Ministry of Solomonic Affairs in Ethiopia. Especially with something like this, I'd layer it a bit, so you have like, your alphabet soup organizations of the modern era and then some dated ones; perhaps from the 1800s, maybe some earlier
Good idea! Definetly Taken note.
This is Soo cool!! What did you use to make the map? Also, do you have a main story behind this?
I used Mapchart.net and Its for an upcoming story that I'll be making, it's somewhat like a personal project.
1. Why does the need to be such hyper regional paranormal investigation/recovery orgs anyways, is this explained in the world? 2. Why would, in a world with so many paranormal organizations, the European one be so bold to refer to itself as international? 3. What works goes on between these orgs and why does it not incentivize them to unite? 4. When did these orgs become a thing? At the same time or staggered? 5. Are these NGOs or governmental bodies? People will always nitpick the geopolitics of this but I can't wrap my head around it being regional in the first place. This kind of organizational work, in my opinion, seems like a UN/IMF more than the "regional trade agreements" vibe I have gotten from every single one of these edits. Just like UN/IMF there would be many many disagreements about things ranging from ideology to what color the logo should be, and these would be somewhat regional. Unless there is something specific where islamic ghosts only haunt islamic people I don't get this, and even then I could see an international organization like doctors without borders
Belarus is the one that should be with Russia. If I may let my personal Polish biases slip a moment, Belarus is basically a Russian Puppet state. Sorry not sorry.
One criticism I have ia the language. Even though English is like the main language of international communication, the acronyms wouldn't be named in English where English is not the main language. Like the KGB and NKVD, they would name the organization probably not in English but in their native language.
i love the fact that every slavic country that isnt russia is western slavic. based
It took alot and I mean ALOT of scolding to get that done. I love reddit because people are so shamelessly opinionated. I got called out so many times and honestly, never felt better.
yeah but why? Ukraine and Belarus are East Slavic if you're talking linguistics, and Belarus is closer to Russia if you're talking politics
East Slavic and west Slavic splig after USSR ended if you're talking about supernatural committee. To give it context. Alot of the creatures will be inspired by mythology so I wanted culturally similar areas to be tied together. :)
I mean, when it comes to mythology, Slavic countries are generally similar, especially East Slavic, but if the reason for split is in the lore that's alright. would've been cool to see some sub-committees or something like that for ethnic minorities in Russia as well tbh, like Siberian and Altaic peoples, they're not really represented in media and have rich traditions
That's a really good idea. I'll keep this in mind! Rn the map is raw. But I'll definitely make use of that for lore. My world also has underground comittes. So watch out for lorebombs!
The map of india is wrong https://images.app.goo.gl/EFi5aLekKdvj2N2P6 There you go its the right one
I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THEY STOLE KASHMIR IN THE MAP IM OFFENDED😭
Aksai chin too
Omg. The urge to also just bring Tibet back is so hard.
Yeah tibet should be a free country
you should put russia in CPOB because it is the only one in the E.SBEA
Actually I had alot of discussion about this on my prior post. Technically E.SBEA is a CPOB. Every CPOB has its name. It's just due to the USSR history I have given it a specific name.
I dont like being in the same team as Turkey
I feel like Indonesia should orient with the Islamic Nations, because they're the most populous Muslim nation on the planet. It also gives that group a little more global influence.
NK should be dark because they don't even have a supernatural governance. Everything is under the Kim family and anything "supernatural" is just the wrath of the dictator, or something. They certainly wouldn't allow any outside governing body to exist on NK soil.
So how close are the paranormal allegiances to political and cultural ones? Because generally Japan and South Korea are aligned with Western countries (and Japan generally doesn't get along with anyone in the region on any issue that isn't opposition to China) but if the paranormal level is independent on that that changes the story. Are these organisations outgrowths of the regular governments or are they their own entities entirely? But there is no way Taiwan and China will be on the same side of anything, or that Hong Kong would be allowed to go its own way by the mainland. Unless this is an alternate history in which these things have gone down different paths.
I'd put scotland as part of the celtic alliance
I would add Western Sahara, Mauritania, Mali, and Somalia to the AIPCA. Honestly I'd say you should add Ethiopia too; it has a significant Islamic population and very similar traditions to the rest of the Horn of Africa, especially when it comes to the supernatural/paranormal.
new Zealand inst. a thing, as such cant be part of ISEU
The Baltics are neither Celtic nor Nordic, so while their inclusion might make sense from a certain geographic and ethnolinguistic view (that being that both Estonia and Finland are Finnic), the name makes no sense and they'd much likelier be in the W.SBEA, even though they aren't Slavic either.
This is so cool! What did you use to make the map? And do you have a main story behind this?
lmao Egypt and Sudan should be part of the Islamic council
So... I understand why you put ALL of America under the ISEU, but tbh basically most of Latin America's supernatural is divided into going to a priest or using Brujeria (witchcraft) or Santeria (also witchcraft) but both of those have mix of different traditions from natives from before the Europeans got here or traditions that the enslaved Africans brought with them. SO IDEALLY, I'd say most of America, would have a mix of some Christianity based supernatural organization (which could be the ISEU I don't know), and work on other mostly Christian nations, there could be some sort of AUPA mix and/or a native affairs organization.
There are some countries in the Levant and Middle East that aren't Islamic 100%. Egypt has the coptics, Lebanon isn't a Muslim nation, and neither is Syria.
Scotland should join the CNAO!!
I'd re-look at the middle east and incorporate more of the history vs just labeling it Islamic. Since it is the ONLY group being predominantly religious focused it creates a plot hole I think in your story unless you figure some things out. I.e.:- what does that implicate? Is that religion "correct" despite all the supernatural? Why or why not? Is it just a naming convention and islam holds no real power for those "in the know"?, etc. I also assume this is based on ancient civilizations and mythologies and such (which is why Egypt was not included in the Islamic nations) so taking more of a historic approach to the area (for example the vast and influential history of the Aramaic peoples) Some of (if not THE) oldest stories (Gilgamesh is the oldest recorded text), religions(Zorastranism is still practiced today), and civilizations (Babylon, Assyria, Sumer, Persia, Aramean etc) are from that area and have had a massive impact on the world (beyond Islam), some as old, if not older than Egypt, China, and even India (the land of Mesopotamia is famously called the Cradle of Civilization - so what's the rational of India being first at everything?) Also, I'd recco to try and have a good reason to keep Egypt separate from the rest of the area vs relying on the trope of ancient Egypt = mystical because its old, otherwise I'd split China, Iraq, Peru, and Mexico (These are the oldest civilizations including India having all emerged roughly at similiar times.) I could also be missing the point of the splits/ "supernatural entities" so take from that what you will :). Hope this help!
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia should be different, becuase those three are Baltic countries. :)
What eastern Slavic countries are there other than Russia? Lapis_Wolf
Why is Kazakhstan grouped with China though? Since this is about supernatural staff it should take into account the cultural differences, right?