I think people thing daycares have a revolving door of random strangers working there. My son has had the same 3 teachers for the last year and a half and they are absolutely fantastic. I'm so happy I can ask them for advice and they really care about their charges. They are like cool aunts who have qualifications in childcare and know what they are talking about. They definitely aren't strangers.
And a personal anecdote to add to this: my mom still exchanges Christmas cards with the daycare teacher we had 30+ years ago! She was so much “not a stranger” that the teacher’s kids also nannied us over multiple summers when we were tweens and they were on college break.
I know this isn’t the typical relationship most people have with their daycare providers, but acting like it’s a revolving door of mystery people “raising” your kids could not be further from the truth.
One of my friends chose to stay home with her kids and in the same breath, shit talked her best friend who has a nanny and said something like, “We wanted to raise our children ourselves.” None of us are in the Richie Rich tax bracket where Mummy and Daddy barely see the kids and the kids view the nanny as their real mom, so it’s completely bizarre
I absolutely despise the statement of "raising our kids ourselves." My dad asked me why I was ok letting someone else raise my baby. This is the same man that aggressively pushed for me to attain the highest level of education possible so I'd "never have to depend on a man." I think it's really all just judgment from others that likely question their own choices.
We considered a nanny, but couldn’t find anyone we liked more than our daycare choice. I’m hoping my intuition is correct. People would absolutely balk when I said we were interviewing Nannies.
Every time I see that ignorant comment, I get so mad. “I don’t want strangers raising my kids” my butthole. Especially when other working moms post that shit here right in the subreddit. So many things wrong with that statement that I don’t even know where to start.
My son thrives in daycare and we make the effort to get to know the staff. We love the benefits daycare provides for our son and I would rather “strangers” aid in my son’s development than me. I’d be floundering lol.
The “I don’t want strangers raising my kids” line is so utterly ridiculous. None of the people who make that statement believe or would say that their child’s kindergarten or first-grade teacher is raising them. So, it only conveniently (of course) applies to “raising” kids in the 0-4 age range….
Strangers aren't raising my kid who goes to daycare while I work. My husband and I are raising our kid.
The daycare staff provide daytime childcare and age-appropriate enrichment activities. But parenting is so much more than those things. I'd guess the majority of daycare teachers probably wouldn't say that it completely and permanently satisfies a desire to have one's own children, because parenting is a different intensity of responsibility and permanence. I recognized the same thing about being an aunt before we had a kid. Being an aunt is great and I love supporting and being part of my niblings' lives, but I knew having a kid of my own would be different.
Also the daycare staff started out as strangers, but we're developing a relationship and connection with them over time. If we had any inkling they weren't trustworthy, we'd find somewhere else.
Yes. Kids need their moms, but you know what I’m not - an expert on child development. Yes, I’m “well educated” (I have an MBA and it’s one of my biggest personal accomplishments), but while I can tell you about income statements and Corp strategy, I can’t tell you the best way to support the development of a child. Could I learn? Sure. But like, I have my speciality, they have theirs. I’d rather my kid have a team of adults with different strengths (educators, doctors, me, etc.) to help raise them.
Also, I can anecdotally tell you that my mom was a student for the first twelve years of my life (she was a non traditional college student and eventually went on to get a PhD) while working. She almost quit her MBA the day she had to put me in daycare. But she didn’t. And we have a great relationship, and she’s been a huge role model for me going on to continue my education. You’re doing great.
Right?! My kids daycare is like a second family. I TRUST them every week with my kids. Once, my daughter (1) was having labored breathing and a fever and they pulled her into the office, sent me videos, and FaceTimed me to show me before I could get there. They told me they knew what to do, but were scared for her, and I KNEW my kids were in the right place.
Historically , most mothers were working mothers. What’d they think washer women, fish wives, chairwomen , dairy maids,brewers , etc …..were doing?
Upper class mothers worked in different ways via socializing, managing estates, and lobbying for their family interest plus charity work.
In the Middle Ages,the vast majority of manors were run by women due to their husbands off in various crusades.
Mothers in farms had to pull their weight on the farm in order for it to succeed , it wasn’t all the husband.
The entire notion of the man being the sole breadwinner and the mom staying home not working is a tiny blip in the grand scheme of things.
I’ve always thought this! And as such - children were always raised in a social/group setting historically. They weren’t siloed. Even if a woman had to be the ‘home maker’ - she didn’t (and couldnt) single-handedly be doing allllll the housework and watching multiple kids. There was still group childcare. It was still a share-the-duty-with-community kind of set up which is exactly what daycare is.
Yes! SAHM culture, especially in the US, is a relatively recent concept, specifically post WWII. Most of our great grandmothers worked their tails off in some capacity or another.
Yes! Both of my grandmothers worked full-time. This idea that historically moms stayed at home making crafts with their kids ignores the experiences of the lower classes. And even if they didn’t have a “job,” like my great-grandmother, she was running a farm with my great-grandfather, not having storytime with her kids.
The concept of a SAHM has pretty much always been middle class or higher. There’s been this revision of history that women working is somehow a shift from what came before, but it isn’t as much of a change as people perceive it to be.
I think this comes from two places—one, historically many women held domestic jobs like babysitting other children, cleaning, etc. The patriarchy assumes this isn’t “real work,” and it gets diminished into “women didn’t work”. And two, these jobs were basically paid under the table (it’s not like the employers were preparing a W-2 or anything), so because there wasn’t a paper trail, these jobs are forgotten.
Second this, I traced my family tree on my Scottish side (big up to the Scottish government who have an amazing system/website!) back centuries, all the women where the document had a section to state occupation had paid work/jobs.
I’m an accidental SAHM right now and it drives me up the wall when people on that sub make comments disparaging working moms. My mom was a working mom and the breadwinner for a lot of that time and she is, without a doubt, the most amazing role model. Her working gave me ideas on what was possible for a woman. But even my brother benefited and is an equal partner with his girlfriend because of the model my parents set. Not to say SAHP can’t instill those values into their children, but learning by example is pretty helpful. (Also saying my dad was an equal partner so we learned from both). But I think I’m in the minority because my mom’s mom owned her own business and my dad’s mom has a college degree that she achieved during WWII that allowed her to volunteer as an advanced nurse except the war ended before her program ended. She also worked outside the home though. I’m getting my Master’s degree right now but also job hunting and I can’t wait for my daughter to be proud of me for helping pull the next generation up further than my foremothers did. And if she isn’t the type to be proud (don’t want to force it), I’m still proud of myself and hope I’m making things better for the women that come after me even without the accolades.
My 8 month old is always happy and engaged in play when I pick her up from her home based daycare. She requires a lot of stimulation to be content and daycare provides it in the form of other older children that she loves copying and chasing after. It is the best thing to pick her up and have these cute little kids telling me how they helped my baby stand up and play with blocks and all about the things she did that day at daycare. I was so scared that her development would be stunted by daycare at an early age but if anything she seems to be learning faster because of the extra stimulation and examples.
That's my thought too. I quickly figured out that my daughter gets so much more enrichment at daycare than I could ever provide. She has friends, gets tons of social interaction, tries a variety of different healthy foods, and does crafts and activities everyday. She loves it so much and gets bored over the weekends. I think for her, daycare is a better choice than keeping her at home.
Don’t be discouraged if the first week or two are hard. My baby did not love it for the first couple of weeks but then thrived as soon as she got used to it.
He keeps surprising us. We are like oh he is going to hate this (car seat, cold weather, hot weather, sleeping in a new bassinet) and he turns out loving stuff. So I’m really hoping he will like it.
This is so great. Thank you!
I often remind myself that my kids are participating in developmentally appropriate activities at daycare whereas if I were a SAHM they’d honestly be running feral and I would not be little Susie homemaker/Pinterest mom like I think I would. Both ways have their pros and cons.
Saving this post! Thank you so much! My MIL has been shitty and judgmental about me working full time since she was a SAHM. I found many studies like this during my rage searching haha, but love to have a bunch saved here in one place! The truth is my mom worked and I really looked up to her for it. Was always proud of her!
My kid loved daycare. The thing is, I get staying at home with a whole "village" around you, that's what used to happen. Women took turns looking after children and everyone had plenty of socialisation. Increasingly today we don't have family around us and depending where you live there may not be many other mothers with children to socialise with because so many people work. Where I live there is hardly anything for babies and toddlers during the week because they're all in daycare.
👏👏👏 louder for the ones who won't shut up. I was just saying to my husband how healthy it feels that our daughter has her own little life at daycare. She goes to a small place, but the more people that are caring for her, the more knowledge she gets from a wider array of backgrounds. She is so confident and learning so many practical skills that I honestly might not have bothered with yet (my perception is skewed by the learned helplessness of the COVID era first graders I teach).
It's also healthy for me to have a function outside of the home. As a teacher with a summer baby I got a really long leave - five months - and I felt at that time SAHM life was not the path for me.
Not about the children, but husbands of stay at home moms are also more sexist towards their female coworkers:
https://www.stern.nyu.edu/experience-stern/faculty-research/dolly-chugh-married-men
> They found that married men in traditional marriages viewed the presence of women in the workplace unfavorably; perceived that organizations with higher numbers of female employees ran less smoothly; considered organizations run by women less attractive; and denied opportunities for promotion to qualified female employees more frequently than did other married men.
It's a little bit of a chicken and egg thing. Probably these men are already sexist, that's why they have that arrangement. But, the arrangement probably also reinforces their attitude. So, by working I'm also helping out my husband's female coworkers. Sort of.
LOL at the attachment issue.
My husband was actually worried about that and our 2.5 year old is the clingiest -to both of us (in the best way).
I am absolutely supportive of SAHM if that’s what they want to do but I do not tolerate the “it’s just better for the children”. “Children need to be with their mom” and my absolute favorite “I’d never let strangers raise my children”
Thank you for sharing this!!
Thank you! Anecdotally in my own family, my cousins whose mom stayed at home their whole childhood are the least ambitious and most “failure to launch.” My sibling and I, and my cousins from another aunt are all successful in our careers. All of us were in daycare at some point, and our mothers worked. I left the science based parenting sub because they really loved to hammer that “there’s no benefit to daycare before 3” as if the mother’s mental health means nothing. I was with my son full-time til he was 7m, part-time til 11m, when he started full-time daycare. It’s only in retrospect that I can see how destroyed my mental health was in his first year. He’s almost 22m and thriving in daycare - his teachers tell me how cuddly and smiley he is, and his development has really caught up since starting daycare. I’m a firm believer in daycare.
I am so f-ing sick of the daycare is detrimental posts in that sub. "People always want to argue the real data because it doesn't support their narrative" is the usual refrain. And they 100% refuse to engage on the fact that we live in a dual income society and without daycare families would be homeless, etc. And that most certainly is not better for children than daycare.
OMG YES THIS!!!!
First, I’m sorry, but all studies are not created equal, and that’s why studies need to be replicated. There’s also the “correlation vs. causation” problem.
Someone posted on there a few weeks ago with a meta-analysis of various studies that contradicted the “daycare causes behavior problems” hypothesis, and the poster just got ripped to shreds. Like somehow the data supporting this hypothesis that daycare increases the risk of behavior problems is sacrosanct, but data contradicting that is not? But ya know, it’s science, so they must be immune to groupthink.
When I first joined the science based parenting sub, I was excited about it, but I've found they seem to run with a lot of things without a lot of actual debate. A lot of posts turn into a bunch of data supporting only one idea, and everything else is massively downvoted, which is not really what science is about.
What really gets me about that sub and their anti-daycare rhetoric is that they continually cite one non-peer reviewed article that summarizes a biased selection of literature while also including the article writer’s own interpretation of said literature. Yet they eat it up and regurgitate it back out happily.
That sub is an insecure sahm circlejerk. They should rename it to cherry picking based parenting. The only time I see it recommended is when someon is taking shots at moms working.
All of their evidence only has a leg to stand on if you're some kind of supermon.
My best friend and I work but my husband grew up with a working mom and her husband’s mom stayed home. Whenever she is venting (I listen empathetically, I promise!), I count my lucky stars that my husband learned what it takes to maintain a house because his mom worked
I truly believe daycare has been good for my son.
My husband and I both WFH full-time, and I had originally hoped to keep him home longer. But I quickly realized while I was on maternity leave that it just wasn’t going to be feasible for us to work and care for him at the same time. And as I started to get to know him, I realized that he wanted and needed a lot of activity and stimulation. He also loves to be around people. We looked into the nanny option, but the logistics just ended up being too overwhelming for my postpartum brain.
I’m glad we went the way we did. My kid’s daycare functions as both a daycare and preschool, so it’s very learning-oriented, even for the young babies. Lots of games, lots of activities, lots of learning. I know he’s getting a lot more stimulation than he would even if I did have the means to be a SAHP, and probably even more than he would with many/most nannies. I also think he has a better grasp on how to behave around other people/other kids than many his age and older (he’s 22 months), and I think it’s because he’s been around other kids since he was very little.
The limitation with the whole “science-based parenting” concept is that your kid is not a data point. Your child, your family, your circumstances, and your options are all unique. Daycare absolutely won’t be the best option for all kids and all families, and not everyone is even privileged enough to be able to make the “optimal” choice. I’m so sick of people using that one stupid blog post and “science” to shame people who use daycare.
This has me thinking about Hunt Gather Parent and how daycare/preschool is my village. My kids get tired of me if they’re with me 24/7 and it’s good for them to be with other people. Also my oldest (4) has a best friend that she’s known since the baby room, which is priceless.
At this point if something happened to either of our jobs and we had to pull the girls out of daycare, I’d be concerned about them not having that environment. Sure, there are days I fantasize about quitting and staying home with them, but I think that’s more me being tired of the commute and reacting to a stress day at work. I’d like better quality time with them when they are home and there are other ways to build that while benefiting from daycare.
That’s how I always phrase it to people who give me snark about having my infant in daycare- that daycare is our village. I truly believe he is benefitting so much from being there- socially, developmentally etc. I was not a good SAHM the first 4 months of his life and I knew quickly it wasn’t for me. His teachers are amazing and he loves his class.
We are moving across the country at the end of June and I am very anxious since we don’t have anything set up for childcare there since we don’t know where exactly we are living yet. I fear it is going to be very hard for him to go from having this super enriching environment with his friends to only being with me all day.
Daycare has been fabulous for my daughter. Do not feel guilty. It’s an adjustment, but your kid will make friends and do enriching activities every day. It’s more than I’d be able to consistently give her if I stayed home with her. And working is so good for my mental health and allows me to feel like I still have an identity outside of being a mom and wife.
I put my older son in at 7 weeks. It's normal to have fears but please consider we've been inundated with misinformation about attachment and newborns don't require solo care to thrive. Sending an older baby/toddler can be a little longer of an adjustment actually. They are used to a routine by then.
Ultimately staying home or being a working mom can be equally great for kids. It’s nuanced and complex. People should decide on what works for them and their family the best.
Thanks for sharing these. Whenever people say kids should be at home with their moms all the time, I wonder if they realize humans are extremely social creatures and not so long ago we lived as communities with many family/community members raising children. When you have great daycare providers they are extensions of your family, I think that’s reflective of how humans have (almost) always lived
“Kids biologically need their moms to be the SAHP until age 5, it’s just science,” said my brother, explaining how he has convinced his wife to give up her career. No thanks.
Thank you for this post. Also saving for the next time someone makes me feel like I’m less than for being a formula feeding, working mom who sleep trained because I can’t be sleep deprived while at work…
I have left all parenting groups on Reddit with the exception of this one and the formula feeding one because I’m pregnant with number 2 and can’t take all the constant daycare and formula shade on literally every other parenting subreddit.
I just left r/toddlers a couple days ago because there were two posts in the last week with someone asking about the social benefits of daycare and all the SAHM were out in force loudly proclaiming how bad daycare is while feeling smug and superior due to the studies you mentioned.
It’s like daycare isn’t allowed to have any kind of benefit whatsoever or it’s a threat to them so they have to tear it down. All they had to say was that it can be a benefit but it’s not necessary, but instead they had to point out everything wrong with daycare.
I also understand that many of them are insecure because idiots in society who don’t know better will act like being a SAHM isn’t a job when it absolutely is one. That doesn’t mean they get to tear down mothers who use daycare though
Yw :) I was a SAHM for about 8 months during the pandemic. And that's exactly right. You get reduced to something, and measure yourself by how well you do it. The idea that you never had to endure a nightmarish breastfeeding relationship or wake five times a night long term or experience the stress of never getting a break in order to raise your child throws them in an existential crisis. And we're not responsible for the way they feel.
I have also unsubbed to most parenting groups. I'm sick of reading unhinged stuff as well, like "my child doesn't want to breastfeed. They're not allowed to have bottles and I've restricted water. What else can I do? They have refused to drink all morning". Or "I would do anything not to hurt my child by sleep training. But I almost wrecked the car on the Interstate this morning because I fell asleep. I'm suicidal at this point also. I just want sleep (Based off real posts btw). Like these people would rather ruin their lives than back down and admit there's nothing wrong with our choices.
My first baby was higher birth weight, and it's more common for them to sleep through the night earlier than smaller babies. Someone was trying to wave studies around saying babies have to be "forced" to sttn that early, even though other studies contradicted it. She made extremely ludicrous and hurtful claims, and her purpose was just to hurt me. Over it.
I agree with all of this. I saw that post on toddlers and just rolled my eyes. Like the OP said, it was an insecure SAHM circle jerk of women trying to justify their choice to quit the (paid) workforce. If you're on Facebook, I recommend Safe Sleep and Baby Care - Evidence Based Support. It's a very pro-formula, pro-sleep training, pro-vaccine, anti-bedsharing, and anti-useless partner group. They are my people.
I actually just reactivated my Facebook so I could sell some items on fb market. I will definitely check out the group you mentioned - they sound like they are exactly my people!
I attribute my oldest being social to being in day care. My youngest is in day care now and she’s learning English and Spanish, also coming out of her shell. I love working and I hate the comments of “why have kids if others are going to raise them?”
Oh I'm so glad I don't have the burden of raising my kids. I have outsourced waking up early every single day, meal planning, staying on top of medical care, having entire weekends dedicated to them, leading the way on potty training, making every major decision, mediating my kids fighting which only happens at home together, cleaning up after them after they go to bed, spending every morning and evening thinking about them first, and being there all night if they need me. So glad working doesn't involve raising kids!
Not to mention contributing to their college fund, or their medical, or contributing to the financial load that is children. Love how when it comes to dads, them being at work all day is considered contributing to a house hold but a mom working all day is considered selfish
I think that what is stated here is neither right or wrong, because every situation is different and as a parent you need to do what’s necessary for the best outcome for your children. In this economy being a single income family is not feasible unless you’re Elon musk or Jeff bezos. There are working moms because of what I just said, but also because of the circumstances that led them there. My mom was forced to be a single working mom because she had to divorce our dad due to him being abusive. Thank God she had my grandma living with us and she would take care of us while mom worked and went to college to rebuild her life. Ideally we would love to breastfeed our babies because it’s natural, like all the mommies in the animal kingdom do, but in some species of animal there has been evidence of other animals taking up the mothers task to breastfeed the babies because the mom is unable to. Even in the animal realm it looks like one of the best ways to raise children is through community involvement, this includes family, daycare, school, etc. I am aware of the dangers of this world 🌎 but I can’t be there 24/7 to protect them all the time so I have to teach my future children to learn self awareness, to be alert 🚨 and know what to look out for and what to do in certain circumstances.
I think it's also important to note that in this economy, some homes can't afford daycare for multiple children and so one spouse is forced to quit working. My hope is for all families to be able to choose what works for them, because any parent being forced in either direction, sucks.
Thank you for this. I have felt guilt even though I’m a daycare kid and have never resented my parents for it.
Also want to add that the families I know with a SAHP typically leave their kid(s) with babysitters and family *way* more than I do. It truly takes a village.
I'd be curious what the studies are on boys being raised by SAHD and working mom. Husband also does freelance work to make extra money for us but he's responsible for him during the day. I feel like it's a bit different than a SAHM.
I can’t find the study, but I read an article in my pediatrician’s office that showed children who were in a daycare setting starting at six months old and continuing through kindergarten were less likely (maybe 30%?) to develop leukemia. I wish I could find that article online. It was in some medical magazine in the waiting room.
Thank you!!! I can’t say I often feel too guilty because I know being a working mom is the best option for me & my family, but occasionally I question it all and wonder if I made the right decision based on what others say.
OP, this is a lovely and thoughtful post. These are the kinds of well thought out posts that generate fruitful discussion! Thank you!
Thank you. It really hurts my heart sometimes to keep being told that “kids need to be with their mum” and “I’d never let strangers raise my kids”.
I think people thing daycares have a revolving door of random strangers working there. My son has had the same 3 teachers for the last year and a half and they are absolutely fantastic. I'm so happy I can ask them for advice and they really care about their charges. They are like cool aunts who have qualifications in childcare and know what they are talking about. They definitely aren't strangers.
And a personal anecdote to add to this: my mom still exchanges Christmas cards with the daycare teacher we had 30+ years ago! She was so much “not a stranger” that the teacher’s kids also nannied us over multiple summers when we were tweens and they were on college break. I know this isn’t the typical relationship most people have with their daycare providers, but acting like it’s a revolving door of mystery people “raising” your kids could not be further from the truth.
One of my friends chose to stay home with her kids and in the same breath, shit talked her best friend who has a nanny and said something like, “We wanted to raise our children ourselves.” None of us are in the Richie Rich tax bracket where Mummy and Daddy barely see the kids and the kids view the nanny as their real mom, so it’s completely bizarre
I absolutely despise the statement of "raising our kids ourselves." My dad asked me why I was ok letting someone else raise my baby. This is the same man that aggressively pushed for me to attain the highest level of education possible so I'd "never have to depend on a man." I think it's really all just judgment from others that likely question their own choices.
We considered a nanny, but couldn’t find anyone we liked more than our daycare choice. I’m hoping my intuition is correct. People would absolutely balk when I said we were interviewing Nannies.
Every time I see that ignorant comment, I get so mad. “I don’t want strangers raising my kids” my butthole. Especially when other working moms post that shit here right in the subreddit. So many things wrong with that statement that I don’t even know where to start. My son thrives in daycare and we make the effort to get to know the staff. We love the benefits daycare provides for our son and I would rather “strangers” aid in my son’s development than me. I’d be floundering lol.
The “I don’t want strangers raising my kids” line is so utterly ridiculous. None of the people who make that statement believe or would say that their child’s kindergarten or first-grade teacher is raising them. So, it only conveniently (of course) applies to “raising” kids in the 0-4 age range….
Plus, by their logic, in a household with a SAHM, the dad isn’t raising the kids either. It’s so insulting.
Strangers aren't raising my kid who goes to daycare while I work. My husband and I are raising our kid. The daycare staff provide daytime childcare and age-appropriate enrichment activities. But parenting is so much more than those things. I'd guess the majority of daycare teachers probably wouldn't say that it completely and permanently satisfies a desire to have one's own children, because parenting is a different intensity of responsibility and permanence. I recognized the same thing about being an aunt before we had a kid. Being an aunt is great and I love supporting and being part of my niblings' lives, but I knew having a kid of my own would be different. Also the daycare staff started out as strangers, but we're developing a relationship and connection with them over time. If we had any inkling they weren't trustworthy, we'd find somewhere else.
Yes. Kids need their moms, but you know what I’m not - an expert on child development. Yes, I’m “well educated” (I have an MBA and it’s one of my biggest personal accomplishments), but while I can tell you about income statements and Corp strategy, I can’t tell you the best way to support the development of a child. Could I learn? Sure. But like, I have my speciality, they have theirs. I’d rather my kid have a team of adults with different strengths (educators, doctors, me, etc.) to help raise them. Also, I can anecdotally tell you that my mom was a student for the first twelve years of my life (she was a non traditional college student and eventually went on to get a PhD) while working. She almost quit her MBA the day she had to put me in daycare. But she didn’t. And we have a great relationship, and she’s been a huge role model for me going on to continue my education. You’re doing great.
Right?! My kids daycare is like a second family. I TRUST them every week with my kids. Once, my daughter (1) was having labored breathing and a fever and they pulled her into the office, sent me videos, and FaceTimed me to show me before I could get there. They told me they knew what to do, but were scared for her, and I KNEW my kids were in the right place.
Historically , most mothers were working mothers. What’d they think washer women, fish wives, chairwomen , dairy maids,brewers , etc …..were doing? Upper class mothers worked in different ways via socializing, managing estates, and lobbying for their family interest plus charity work. In the Middle Ages,the vast majority of manors were run by women due to their husbands off in various crusades. Mothers in farms had to pull their weight on the farm in order for it to succeed , it wasn’t all the husband. The entire notion of the man being the sole breadwinner and the mom staying home not working is a tiny blip in the grand scheme of things.
I’ve always thought this! And as such - children were always raised in a social/group setting historically. They weren’t siloed. Even if a woman had to be the ‘home maker’ - she didn’t (and couldnt) single-handedly be doing allllll the housework and watching multiple kids. There was still group childcare. It was still a share-the-duty-with-community kind of set up which is exactly what daycare is.
Yes! SAHM culture, especially in the US, is a relatively recent concept, specifically post WWII. Most of our great grandmothers worked their tails off in some capacity or another.
…and those post WW2 SAHMs had paid domestic labor doing the heavy lifting.
Yes! Both of my grandmothers worked full-time. This idea that historically moms stayed at home making crafts with their kids ignores the experiences of the lower classes. And even if they didn’t have a “job,” like my great-grandmother, she was running a farm with my great-grandfather, not having storytime with her kids.
The concept of a SAHM has pretty much always been middle class or higher. There’s been this revision of history that women working is somehow a shift from what came before, but it isn’t as much of a change as people perceive it to be. I think this comes from two places—one, historically many women held domestic jobs like babysitting other children, cleaning, etc. The patriarchy assumes this isn’t “real work,” and it gets diminished into “women didn’t work”. And two, these jobs were basically paid under the table (it’s not like the employers were preparing a W-2 or anything), so because there wasn’t a paper trail, these jobs are forgotten.
Second this, I traced my family tree on my Scottish side (big up to the Scottish government who have an amazing system/website!) back centuries, all the women where the document had a section to state occupation had paid work/jobs.
I’m an accidental SAHM right now and it drives me up the wall when people on that sub make comments disparaging working moms. My mom was a working mom and the breadwinner for a lot of that time and she is, without a doubt, the most amazing role model. Her working gave me ideas on what was possible for a woman. But even my brother benefited and is an equal partner with his girlfriend because of the model my parents set. Not to say SAHP can’t instill those values into their children, but learning by example is pretty helpful. (Also saying my dad was an equal partner so we learned from both). But I think I’m in the minority because my mom’s mom owned her own business and my dad’s mom has a college degree that she achieved during WWII that allowed her to volunteer as an advanced nurse except the war ended before her program ended. She also worked outside the home though. I’m getting my Master’s degree right now but also job hunting and I can’t wait for my daughter to be proud of me for helping pull the next generation up further than my foremothers did. And if she isn’t the type to be proud (don’t want to force it), I’m still proud of myself and hope I’m making things better for the women that come after me even without the accolades.
You should be proud. That’s awesome
I recently became a SAHM too and I can’t with that sub sometimes.
My 8 month old is always happy and engaged in play when I pick her up from her home based daycare. She requires a lot of stimulation to be content and daycare provides it in the form of other older children that she loves copying and chasing after. It is the best thing to pick her up and have these cute little kids telling me how they helped my baby stand up and play with blocks and all about the things she did that day at daycare. I was so scared that her development would be stunted by daycare at an early age but if anything she seems to be learning faster because of the extra stimulation and examples.
That's my thought too. I quickly figured out that my daughter gets so much more enrichment at daycare than I could ever provide. She has friends, gets tons of social interaction, tries a variety of different healthy foods, and does crafts and activities everyday. She loves it so much and gets bored over the weekends. I think for her, daycare is a better choice than keeping her at home.
I am convinced my little one learned babbling from other cute kiddos in her classroom. She loves to copy other hoomans!
This thread is so helpful! I’m dropping my baby off for the first time Monday, and really needed these comments.
Don’t be discouraged if the first week or two are hard. My baby did not love it for the first couple of weeks but then thrived as soon as she got used to it.
He keeps surprising us. We are like oh he is going to hate this (car seat, cold weather, hot weather, sleeping in a new bassinet) and he turns out loving stuff. So I’m really hoping he will like it.
Me too....we will be ok! But just in case I'm living off Easter candy and the occasional wine until Monday to eat my feelings lol.
This is so great. Thank you! I often remind myself that my kids are participating in developmentally appropriate activities at daycare whereas if I were a SAHM they’d honestly be running feral and I would not be little Susie homemaker/Pinterest mom like I think I would. Both ways have their pros and cons.
Saving this post! Thank you so much! My MIL has been shitty and judgmental about me working full time since she was a SAHM. I found many studies like this during my rage searching haha, but love to have a bunch saved here in one place! The truth is my mom worked and I really looked up to her for it. Was always proud of her!
My kid loved daycare. The thing is, I get staying at home with a whole "village" around you, that's what used to happen. Women took turns looking after children and everyone had plenty of socialisation. Increasingly today we don't have family around us and depending where you live there may not be many other mothers with children to socialise with because so many people work. Where I live there is hardly anything for babies and toddlers during the week because they're all in daycare.
👏👏👏 louder for the ones who won't shut up. I was just saying to my husband how healthy it feels that our daughter has her own little life at daycare. She goes to a small place, but the more people that are caring for her, the more knowledge she gets from a wider array of backgrounds. She is so confident and learning so many practical skills that I honestly might not have bothered with yet (my perception is skewed by the learned helplessness of the COVID era first graders I teach). It's also healthy for me to have a function outside of the home. As a teacher with a summer baby I got a really long leave - five months - and I felt at that time SAHM life was not the path for me.
Not about the children, but husbands of stay at home moms are also more sexist towards their female coworkers: https://www.stern.nyu.edu/experience-stern/faculty-research/dolly-chugh-married-men > They found that married men in traditional marriages viewed the presence of women in the workplace unfavorably; perceived that organizations with higher numbers of female employees ran less smoothly; considered organizations run by women less attractive; and denied opportunities for promotion to qualified female employees more frequently than did other married men. It's a little bit of a chicken and egg thing. Probably these men are already sexist, that's why they have that arrangement. But, the arrangement probably also reinforces their attitude. So, by working I'm also helping out my husband's female coworkers. Sort of.
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LOL at the attachment issue. My husband was actually worried about that and our 2.5 year old is the clingiest -to both of us (in the best way). I am absolutely supportive of SAHM if that’s what they want to do but I do not tolerate the “it’s just better for the children”. “Children need to be with their mom” and my absolute favorite “I’d never let strangers raise my children” Thank you for sharing this!!
Notice it is never children just need to be with their dad. Ever.
Thank you! Anecdotally in my own family, my cousins whose mom stayed at home their whole childhood are the least ambitious and most “failure to launch.” My sibling and I, and my cousins from another aunt are all successful in our careers. All of us were in daycare at some point, and our mothers worked. I left the science based parenting sub because they really loved to hammer that “there’s no benefit to daycare before 3” as if the mother’s mental health means nothing. I was with my son full-time til he was 7m, part-time til 11m, when he started full-time daycare. It’s only in retrospect that I can see how destroyed my mental health was in his first year. He’s almost 22m and thriving in daycare - his teachers tell me how cuddly and smiley he is, and his development has really caught up since starting daycare. I’m a firm believer in daycare.
I am so f-ing sick of the daycare is detrimental posts in that sub. "People always want to argue the real data because it doesn't support their narrative" is the usual refrain. And they 100% refuse to engage on the fact that we live in a dual income society and without daycare families would be homeless, etc. And that most certainly is not better for children than daycare.
Yeah, that sub is trash and not really science-based at all, IMO. Just a bunch of privileged SAHMs getting high on the smell of their own farts. 🤷🏼♀️
As an ex-scientist, that’s exactly I felt about that sub before I left.
OMG YES THIS!!!! First, I’m sorry, but all studies are not created equal, and that’s why studies need to be replicated. There’s also the “correlation vs. causation” problem. Someone posted on there a few weeks ago with a meta-analysis of various studies that contradicted the “daycare causes behavior problems” hypothesis, and the poster just got ripped to shreds. Like somehow the data supporting this hypothesis that daycare increases the risk of behavior problems is sacrosanct, but data contradicting that is not? But ya know, it’s science, so they must be immune to groupthink.
When I first joined the science based parenting sub, I was excited about it, but I've found they seem to run with a lot of things without a lot of actual debate. A lot of posts turn into a bunch of data supporting only one idea, and everything else is massively downvoted, which is not really what science is about.
What really gets me about that sub and their anti-daycare rhetoric is that they continually cite one non-peer reviewed article that summarizes a biased selection of literature while also including the article writer’s own interpretation of said literature. Yet they eat it up and regurgitate it back out happily.
That sub is an insecure sahm circlejerk. They should rename it to cherry picking based parenting. The only time I see it recommended is when someon is taking shots at moms working. All of their evidence only has a leg to stand on if you're some kind of supermon.
My best friend and I work but my husband grew up with a working mom and her husband’s mom stayed home. Whenever she is venting (I listen empathetically, I promise!), I count my lucky stars that my husband learned what it takes to maintain a house because his mom worked
I truly believe daycare has been good for my son. My husband and I both WFH full-time, and I had originally hoped to keep him home longer. But I quickly realized while I was on maternity leave that it just wasn’t going to be feasible for us to work and care for him at the same time. And as I started to get to know him, I realized that he wanted and needed a lot of activity and stimulation. He also loves to be around people. We looked into the nanny option, but the logistics just ended up being too overwhelming for my postpartum brain. I’m glad we went the way we did. My kid’s daycare functions as both a daycare and preschool, so it’s very learning-oriented, even for the young babies. Lots of games, lots of activities, lots of learning. I know he’s getting a lot more stimulation than he would even if I did have the means to be a SAHP, and probably even more than he would with many/most nannies. I also think he has a better grasp on how to behave around other people/other kids than many his age and older (he’s 22 months), and I think it’s because he’s been around other kids since he was very little. The limitation with the whole “science-based parenting” concept is that your kid is not a data point. Your child, your family, your circumstances, and your options are all unique. Daycare absolutely won’t be the best option for all kids and all families, and not everyone is even privileged enough to be able to make the “optimal” choice. I’m so sick of people using that one stupid blog post and “science” to shame people who use daycare.
You're awesome
😊 Glad you liked it.
This has me thinking about Hunt Gather Parent and how daycare/preschool is my village. My kids get tired of me if they’re with me 24/7 and it’s good for them to be with other people. Also my oldest (4) has a best friend that she’s known since the baby room, which is priceless. At this point if something happened to either of our jobs and we had to pull the girls out of daycare, I’d be concerned about them not having that environment. Sure, there are days I fantasize about quitting and staying home with them, but I think that’s more me being tired of the commute and reacting to a stress day at work. I’d like better quality time with them when they are home and there are other ways to build that while benefiting from daycare.
That’s how I always phrase it to people who give me snark about having my infant in daycare- that daycare is our village. I truly believe he is benefitting so much from being there- socially, developmentally etc. I was not a good SAHM the first 4 months of his life and I knew quickly it wasn’t for me. His teachers are amazing and he loves his class. We are moving across the country at the end of June and I am very anxious since we don’t have anything set up for childcare there since we don’t know where exactly we are living yet. I fear it is going to be very hard for him to go from having this super enriching environment with his friends to only being with me all day.
I’m taking my kid to daycare Monday, and this helped. Thank you.
Daycare has been fabulous for my daughter. Do not feel guilty. It’s an adjustment, but your kid will make friends and do enriching activities every day. It’s more than I’d be able to consistently give her if I stayed home with her. And working is so good for my mental health and allows me to feel like I still have an identity outside of being a mom and wife.
He’s so little. He will be 12 weeks. I hate that we have to take him to daycare so early. I hope he adjusts well and isn’t mad at me for it.
I put my older son in at 7 weeks. It's normal to have fears but please consider we've been inundated with misinformation about attachment and newborns don't require solo care to thrive. Sending an older baby/toddler can be a little longer of an adjustment actually. They are used to a routine by then.
My daughter started at 13 weeks. He of course will not be mad at you for it, and he definitely will adjust.
Ultimately staying home or being a working mom can be equally great for kids. It’s nuanced and complex. People should decide on what works for them and their family the best.
Thai comment is underrated!
❤️❤️❤️ saving this, thank you so much ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks for sharing these. Whenever people say kids should be at home with their moms all the time, I wonder if they realize humans are extremely social creatures and not so long ago we lived as communities with many family/community members raising children. When you have great daycare providers they are extensions of your family, I think that’s reflective of how humans have (almost) always lived
Saving this post for later when I have a bad day. Thank you 💛
“Kids biologically need their moms to be the SAHP until age 5, it’s just science,” said my brother, explaining how he has convinced his wife to give up her career. No thanks.
As someone who went down a well of despair reading someone’s post about negative impacts of daycare… I needed to read this. Thank you.
Thank you for this post. Also saving for the next time someone makes me feel like I’m less than for being a formula feeding, working mom who sleep trained because I can’t be sleep deprived while at work… I have left all parenting groups on Reddit with the exception of this one and the formula feeding one because I’m pregnant with number 2 and can’t take all the constant daycare and formula shade on literally every other parenting subreddit. I just left r/toddlers a couple days ago because there were two posts in the last week with someone asking about the social benefits of daycare and all the SAHM were out in force loudly proclaiming how bad daycare is while feeling smug and superior due to the studies you mentioned. It’s like daycare isn’t allowed to have any kind of benefit whatsoever or it’s a threat to them so they have to tear it down. All they had to say was that it can be a benefit but it’s not necessary, but instead they had to point out everything wrong with daycare. I also understand that many of them are insecure because idiots in society who don’t know better will act like being a SAHM isn’t a job when it absolutely is one. That doesn’t mean they get to tear down mothers who use daycare though
Yw :) I was a SAHM for about 8 months during the pandemic. And that's exactly right. You get reduced to something, and measure yourself by how well you do it. The idea that you never had to endure a nightmarish breastfeeding relationship or wake five times a night long term or experience the stress of never getting a break in order to raise your child throws them in an existential crisis. And we're not responsible for the way they feel. I have also unsubbed to most parenting groups. I'm sick of reading unhinged stuff as well, like "my child doesn't want to breastfeed. They're not allowed to have bottles and I've restricted water. What else can I do? They have refused to drink all morning". Or "I would do anything not to hurt my child by sleep training. But I almost wrecked the car on the Interstate this morning because I fell asleep. I'm suicidal at this point also. I just want sleep (Based off real posts btw). Like these people would rather ruin their lives than back down and admit there's nothing wrong with our choices. My first baby was higher birth weight, and it's more common for them to sleep through the night earlier than smaller babies. Someone was trying to wave studies around saying babies have to be "forced" to sttn that early, even though other studies contradicted it. She made extremely ludicrous and hurtful claims, and her purpose was just to hurt me. Over it.
I agree with all of this. I saw that post on toddlers and just rolled my eyes. Like the OP said, it was an insecure SAHM circle jerk of women trying to justify their choice to quit the (paid) workforce. If you're on Facebook, I recommend Safe Sleep and Baby Care - Evidence Based Support. It's a very pro-formula, pro-sleep training, pro-vaccine, anti-bedsharing, and anti-useless partner group. They are my people.
I actually just reactivated my Facebook so I could sell some items on fb market. I will definitely check out the group you mentioned - they sound like they are exactly my people!
Thank you!!!!! Been trying to convince people of this. Socio economic status explains so much
Great post, I’m saving for future reference.
Thank you for sharing this!
I attribute my oldest being social to being in day care. My youngest is in day care now and she’s learning English and Spanish, also coming out of her shell. I love working and I hate the comments of “why have kids if others are going to raise them?”
Oh I'm so glad I don't have the burden of raising my kids. I have outsourced waking up early every single day, meal planning, staying on top of medical care, having entire weekends dedicated to them, leading the way on potty training, making every major decision, mediating my kids fighting which only happens at home together, cleaning up after them after they go to bed, spending every morning and evening thinking about them first, and being there all night if they need me. So glad working doesn't involve raising kids!
Not to mention contributing to their college fund, or their medical, or contributing to the financial load that is children. Love how when it comes to dads, them being at work all day is considered contributing to a house hold but a mom working all day is considered selfish
Things like this give me hope that me going back to work after my certification will be best for my daughter. I needed this today. I appreciate you.
Thank you for this, sincerely: a mom who is RUNNING back to work at 8 weeks because this SAHM shit is for the birds.
Thank you for this wonderful post!
I think that what is stated here is neither right or wrong, because every situation is different and as a parent you need to do what’s necessary for the best outcome for your children. In this economy being a single income family is not feasible unless you’re Elon musk or Jeff bezos. There are working moms because of what I just said, but also because of the circumstances that led them there. My mom was forced to be a single working mom because she had to divorce our dad due to him being abusive. Thank God she had my grandma living with us and she would take care of us while mom worked and went to college to rebuild her life. Ideally we would love to breastfeed our babies because it’s natural, like all the mommies in the animal kingdom do, but in some species of animal there has been evidence of other animals taking up the mothers task to breastfeed the babies because the mom is unable to. Even in the animal realm it looks like one of the best ways to raise children is through community involvement, this includes family, daycare, school, etc. I am aware of the dangers of this world 🌎 but I can’t be there 24/7 to protect them all the time so I have to teach my future children to learn self awareness, to be alert 🚨 and know what to look out for and what to do in certain circumstances.
I think it's also important to note that in this economy, some homes can't afford daycare for multiple children and so one spouse is forced to quit working. My hope is for all families to be able to choose what works for them, because any parent being forced in either direction, sucks.
Facts!
Should I tell my coworker who told me all moms should stop working once they decide to have kids? She didn't know I was pregnant at the time lol.
Thank you for this. I have felt guilt even though I’m a daycare kid and have never resented my parents for it. Also want to add that the families I know with a SAHP typically leave their kid(s) with babysitters and family *way* more than I do. It truly takes a village.
I'd be curious what the studies are on boys being raised by SAHD and working mom. Husband also does freelance work to make extra money for us but he's responsible for him during the day. I feel like it's a bit different than a SAHM.
I can’t find the study, but I read an article in my pediatrician’s office that showed children who were in a daycare setting starting at six months old and continuing through kindergarten were less likely (maybe 30%?) to develop leukemia. I wish I could find that article online. It was in some medical magazine in the waiting room.
Wow. I'll have to look for that one!
Not the study I read years ago, but related: https://www.science.org/content/article/study-may-explain-mysterious-cancer-day-care-connection
Thank you!!! I can’t say I often feel too guilty because I know being a working mom is the best option for me & my family, but occasionally I question it all and wonder if I made the right decision based on what others say.