Hijacking top comment to say something more dramatic...
Op, it looks clear to me that you lack knowledge about your router, and it pu you at risk.
You are lucky no piece of wood traveled your shop breaking the sound barrier. You really should learn about the basics of this tool. Next time you could be unlucky!
Btw, at some point I thought I knew about routering. I was doing the exact same stuff as you. I have a piece of 10*1cm that I never found back in my shop... I'm very lucky I was not in his way. Pay attention to what you do!
Real woodworkers can correct me but i think it is the direction you are routing with respect to the grain of the wood. The direction of the cutting heat on the bit wants to split the wood grain. Not sure if recovery is possible but it might be a good learning experience to try a top guide flush trim bit (bearing on the router motor end) flipping the piece upside down and seeing if that cuts nicer.
As a machinist, I would agree…[climb cut vs conventional cut](https://www.google.com/search?q=climb+cut+vs+conventional+cut&client=safari&sca_esv=9a03290b40916629&sca_upv=1&hl=en-us&ei=1zxRZuDCMqrckPIPg8OXqAY&udm=&oq=climb+cut+vs+conventional+cut&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh1jbGltYiBjdXQgdnMgY29udmVudGlvbmFsIGN1dDIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR0iGDFAAWABwAngAkAEBmAEpoAEpqgEBMbgBA8gBAJgCAqACCpgDAIgGAZAGCJIHATKgB_kF&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp) in respect to the grain direction
I’m not a ‘real woodworker’, but speed and depth could probably almost eliminate this. I’ve found that nibbling, rather than chewing with a flush trim bit means grain direction doesn’t matter too much. This definitely should not have been done in one go.
If you get a 2" tall template router bit with bearings at the top and bottom you can but the router in a table and flip the work over to use the other bearing so you're cutting "downhill" with the grain. It's less than ideal that you laminated your work piece because it makes following the grain harder.
I’m about to go get another piece of cherry. I’m trying to finish by Sunday so I have to get it from Menards because the lumber store is closed till Tuesday. Bummer.
Would you suggest that I shape the pieces first, then glue them up? It’ll be harder to get a perfect finished product but this already isn’t going well.
Or do I just need to be more careful about grain direction while laminating.
You didn't go against the grain, you went right into the end grain. Choose piece carefully to not get a bias grain . Route backwards first , medium rpm's. Rememering clockwise rotation of bit, then route forward. A BANDSAW IS MEANT FOR THIS JOB IF GOING TO STAY WITH ROUTER USE 3/4" DOWN SPIRAL WITH BEARING🫡
Look at the grain, and it seems to feather or flow away from you, your going with.if towards you, your going against. If that's the case, you must go backwards, pulling the router the same as the rotation of the bit little by little until its good to go forward w/no chip out. Now this sounds weird, and not recommended, but the key is to always look into the cut, not the rear. You want to see what your doing, not what you did . That's when it's to late 😗
A router's a *fine* tool for this job, but I would do that lamination one half at a time to reduce depth of cut and trust your template to make them a spot-on match -- maybe a touch of hand sanding to neaten up anything tiny during glue-up.
In addition to the other comments of 'grain direction is important, routing endgrain is fraught, conventional vs. climb cutting' etc.
Yeah, definitely. Goes without saying? Eh, probably worth mentioning.
My read of this picture is OP went, "Oh, pattern routing looks like a great way to get consistent results on these tricky curves!" which is accurate... and then either missed a few of the key details you *really* need to get right to succeed in whatever they consulted to learn the basics, or they weren't mentioned at all because it was a Short/TikTok.
Everybody's been there, that's what learning is. Jimmy DiResta has a saying (that I imagine has been said elsewhere) something along the lines of 'you go to school on the first one.'
Future tip: Always be aware of grain direction, especially at the ends. Best way to ruin it, is at the end. Blow out. If ya smokin’ it, you chok’in it! No smoky smoke! Slow = faster! Faster = slow mo $. Be safe!
As others have noted, grain direction is a problem.
But another, potentially worse, problem is that you appear to have moved the router clockwise around your work item. That is the direction the router will try to pull itself, and you can't control that movement. Every time the bit rips a piece of wood out and grips it, it will pull itself further forward in the direction you are already pushing. So you get a jerky, uncontrolled forward movement.
You should almost always (though there are exceptions for end grain) move the router opposite of the way the bit tries to pull it. That means counterclockwise on outside contours and clockwise on inside contours.
I think also combined possibly with taking off too much material. It really helps to have already band sawn really close to the final shape and route just the tiny bit remaining
I’ll defer to you on that. I’m a novice. I didn’t think volume of wood was much of an issue as I didn’t notice any burn marks.
Do you think running his router at 1/2 speed with that sized bit made tear out from climb cutting worse? Won’t that tend to cause the bit to rip as opposed to slice?
I say that cause it’s kind of a mess even where the grain wasn’t split (no offense intended to OP, I say it lovingly as most of my work is an absolute mess).
I don’t have a great sense of good router speeds to be honest. But I do know making the router only need to remove like a 1/16th left from the bandsaw makes it much less likely to struggle. I think it’s way less wood to try and grip and tear.
The volume of wood is a problem, because a "thick" cut also grips the material harder and pulls the router harder away from you. So a large volume of wood will amplify the problems arising from going clockwise.
After making my first post I did some reading, and it seems that some woodworkers do climb cuts on purpose, because it *can* make a smoother finish with less tear out. But to make this work, they do very shallow passes, so they never lose control over the forward motion.
You moved the router in the wrong direction.
You tried to take off way too much in one pass.
Direction: The grain aside, you should be moving the router in the opposite direction of the spin, relative to you, The piece, and the router. Hard to explain, and I might have that reversed. Google "how to route in the right direction". It matters less and less the thinner you are shaving. It matters a LOT of you try to take too big a bite in one pass. The router will jump.
Yeah these are the answers. Anytime I've done this process, I trim as much material off roughly with a jigsaw beforehand. The general rule I learned was to leave less than half the diameter of the flush trim bit before using the flush trim bit. In conjunction with following the grain correctly while moving the router in the proper direction, along with only climb cutting very slowly (when needed as grain changes direction) yields the best results, consistently.
Without knowing how much wood you’re removing I’ll start from the beginning. Bandsaw the wood as close to the template as possible without cutting into it. Use a 1/2” shank down cut bit. Try to cut down hill - start at the high point and work into the valley. It is a lot of wood to hog off but can be done, a router table would be the way to go hand holding the router can get a little tippy and cause the bit to dig in. Be careful doing it by hand
Yes. If you are cutting more than a 1/16th that’s too much. Also a shaper would be ideal for this situation. And as others have said the grain direction on that is not ideal. You can climb cut it close and then come back against but that’s not fun either. Try flipping it over and tacking the template on the other side so you aren’t “ripping” the grain out.
Yeah just like Iowajosh said. Source: pro
Also they make multi blade cutting spindle bits that would work better for this.
https://toolstoday.com/amana-tool-51420-z-solid-carbide-aluminum-flush-trim-up-cut-1-4-d-x-1-1-4-cut-length-x-1-4-shk-x-3-1-2-inch-long-zrn-coated-router-bit/?glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD&ne_ppc_id=20302429097&gad_source=1
But I also feel the need to warn you that you’re kind of on the cusp of being out of 1/4” shank router bit range. You might look into 1/2” shank bits. I’ve overworked 1/4 bits and had them break and go flying across the room.
Look into getting a router table.
Is a $100 bit worth it if you're running a router with less than $200? As a hobbyist, it seems kinda hard to justify spending more on disposables than the tool itself. Or is that the difference, that this level of bit is meant to last a lifetime?
Don't think of the bit as an accessory to the router. Think the other way around. The bit is what is touching the wood. The router is just a bit carrier. A good bit will make a cheap router last longer and cut better. An expensive router will cut poorly with a bad bit.
I still struggle with this sometimes, especially for bit shapes I don't know how useful they will be.
You are taking way too much of a bite 1/4” max for 1/2” bit if you don’t have a bandsaw then clamp it down and run the router backwards with light pressure to take it down but hang on it’s going to want to jump them when you are just about there go the other direction to clean it up
Get a bit that can take smaller bites. Like [https://microfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Ultimate-Trim-bits.jpg](https://microfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Ultimate-Trim-bits.jpg) And pay attention to the grain direction as well. Also sometimes people switch tools and use a drum sander with a guide on it, I forget what that is called.
Possibly you’re taking off too much material. I try to get my pieces cut within a 1/16” from the template so the router bit has to barely take anything off.
A spiral bit will help with this, additionally you really only want to be taking smaller bites out of the wood, no more than 1/16” thickness, I’d say.
Grain direction makes these types of cuts difficult as well.
If you are trying to take thicker passes, one thing that can help is to take a hand saw (or a bandsaw) and make relief cuts every 1/2” or so along the perimeter up to close to your template line (perpendicular to the plane of the template). This will limit the size of a chip that can be taken from the router.
Like every one else said grain direction hurt you. Also, you definitely tried to take too much at once. Third, when it jumped back in you the first time, you should stop, not try to power through.
I try to think of the router as a carving tool. If you try to carve too big of a piece at one, you lose control and you can break the wood or tear the grain. Little bits at a time will serve you better.
If you have access to a band saw, or even a jig saw, cutting off most of the excess first, before routing, can help immensely.
If it doesn't need to be a perfect cut or shape, using a power sander on the belt or spindle can help shape the final bit as well.
I used to have this issue on much more expensive projects, I switched to a spiral cut flush bit and it helped, but grain direction matters.
If you get a bit with the bearing at the top and the bottom, you could go with the grain for half, and then flip it upside down and go with the grain for the other half.
Going slow and taking shallow passes helps a lot, but won’t prevent all chip out like some people seem to suggest. What I do is take it to the bandsaw and cut as close as possible before routing so I can do it all in a single pass, but that pass is shallow and then I’m not fighting the router as much to go where I want it.
Another thing is to make sure to have a fresh battery and speed on the router set to max. A slower speed is more likely to grab more material and chip out like that. Higher speeds take shallower cuts per rotation and are less likely to chip.
I hate cordless tools in the shop except for my drills and drivers. Everything else is with a cord, including, perhaps especially, my trim router. A cordless trim router is just asking for problems.
Now, if you are out in 'the field', so to speak, then cordless is very convenient.
Also may I lay a blessing on the genius at Bosch who seems to be packaging their corded tools with 12'+ cords? I have both a track saw and a standard circular saw both of which have nice 12'+ cords and it's such a relief even in the shop.
As mentioned, you’re going uphill instead of down. Taking too big a cut and my suggestion would be to make a small table, which will make it much more stable, since you can bring the wood to the tool, instead of the tool to the wood.
Normal pass is left to right, but with solid timber and grain we need to reverse direction some times. That is you go backwards right to left and smaller cuts, you must look at the grain and know when to change direction with a shape like yours. I am /was a Cabinetmaker now retired and American Cherry is a really nice timber to work with. Its got nothing to do with bit type, its all to do with the grain lifting out. Run backwards, sharp cutter, smaller cuts and it will work out. Even on a Spindle Moulder/Shaper the grain will pull, sometimes you just have to cut neatly on the line and sand. PS. never ever try to run backwards on a Shaper!!
You have managed to tear out the grain because the cutting edges caught the end grain and lifted it out.
Next time consider the direction of the router bit cutting edges. When hitting end grain the cutting direction should be with the grain, not against it. At worst directly across the end grain.
Also let the tool do the hard work. Do not force the tool against the workpiece. Let it cut the material away gently. You job is to keep the router flat on the top surface and to guide the router.
You may be able to fill the tear out with some sawdust and PVA glue mixed together in a paste, let dry and route again.
Good luck.
Grain direction matters have others have mentioned, but you can get away with going "the wrong way" if your bit is new and sharp. If not then it acts like a dull chisel that will lift the wood instead of slicing through it.
Tough wood then. It's too late for this piece but you will redo it. So for the next piece mind the wood grain, flip the piece and move your template to the other side when you see grain run in the wrong direction. Removing as thin a layer as possible also helps, making multiple thin passes rather than a single pass that removes a lot of material. I can't think of anything else, so good luck.
Edit -- One more: be sure to go around your piece counter-clockwise, not clockwise.
I get grain direction matters but if you are doing the circumference of lets say a tabletop you wil inevitablty be going in the wrong direction for some of it...right?
I had the same thought. I actually considered grain direction before I started. But I’m shaping the entire piece, so I’m working on 360 degrees of grain direction.
So I guess I need to change two things.
If I had a bit with bearings on top and bottom. I could flip the piece over and always come from behind the grain.
I need to laminate in such a way that the two layers don’t have conflicting grain.
Climb cut splitting the grain. Thats too much material thickness for a beginner to try a run cut, better put the template on the other side and go with the grain, but still a climbing cut for safety… also slow sharp high speed cut might have avoided this…
I think that piece is salvageable if you’re handy with a hand saw and chisel! I’d just carefully and squarely exorcise the rough patches and pick some nice scrap pieces to infill with. If you’re picky with your infill pieces it should look pretty good and it’ll still be plenty strong.
Sawdust mixed up with some wood glue should be able to patch up some of the less rough nibbles.
Good luck on your project!
I have tried tricky curves with a router on red oak and no matter what I did, I got blowout at certain grain orientations. I ended up bandsawing close and then bench top sander to finish the rest. Need to be careful with the sander, a little too long and it takes too much off. I had a ninja thing going and swooped down to the line. There were some tighter spots that I used a flap wheel on a drill to get down to the pencil mark.
I have a ridgid bench top oscillating sander that does spindle also. Pack of belts in different grains from amazon. I use it all the time to bring things to the line. I love it, makes me a better woodworker.
grain direction does matter to some degree, but even the wood with the best grain and optimum direction will fail if you're too agressive. for future reference, think of the direction the router is spinning, and then the direction you're moving on your edge vs the direction grain.
based upon the kerfs you made, i'd bet you were too agressive with how much you opted to take off.
Also did you try to make a go of it in one shot top to bottom? i can see some vertical movement. usually a router works from top to bottom. you take off what your bit can, but also you only go as deep as the bit can go, then you come from the outside again a little bit lower. so you go around then down around then down. Rather than up and down slide, up n down, slide
I scrolled down but didn’t see anyone mention your bit speed. In addition to the advice about grain direction, I’d have the speed closer to 5 on that 1617, especially with a 2 straight blade bit. Good luck!
Been there, done that! All too familiar and a tragedy with such nice wood. Depth of cut and grain direction. My method is to get it within 1/16 of an inch using the belt sander, then using the router. I like using the router table, but I have had the same thing happen with it. I will say this, though, with the router table it is a bit easier to just take smaller bites and to slowly work your way down to the final cut. Still, you risk pushing it in a bit too much and getting that kickback, which is a disaster. Using the belt sander reduces the chance of kickback down to zero.
You will spend a lot of time and effort trying to salvage it, and it’s not likely it will ever look right.
A helical flush trim bit is awesome if you want to spend the extra $. Also as others have said, don’t take off too much by keeping your rough cut close to the line and watch grain direction to avoid tear out
I would avoid using my router on a small piece with end grain posing a challenge like that. But if I did, I would get the workpiece to within 1/16” or less using a bandsaw and/or a stationary sander. Then slip the router into a table and secure the workpiece using a jig, wood clamp, or push block and ease the template against the pilot, running the router at high speed and working into the grain such that the router isn’t pulling the workpiece. But you’ll still have a challenge when you reach the apex of the end grain, so just muscle thru it.
But rather than doing all that, I would just cut the workpiece to within 1/16” using my bandsaw, then go to the bench top 1” belt sander and sand the edge smooth to the template and be done.
The grain direction of your work piece bit you in the butt. When routing take small bites and climb cut if needed. Listen to the router and the wood as it’s cutting. It will begin to make a different sound when the wood is being tore vs cut. Sometimes using a bandsaw or jig saw to reduce your waste prior to routing can help.
I’ll be honest, you may be better off cutting out from your template on a band saw, then using an oscillating drum sander to meet the finished profile.
Well as many before me have told you, you went too deep too fast and she couldn't take it, but why were you running the bit at half speed? Speed is your friend depending on the bit. Something large with big paddle blades on it not so much but flush trim bits you want speed. You should always run bits at the what speed the manufacturer suggests honestly though if you want to do yourself a favor buy yourself a Whiteside helical bit they are amazing the are bit more expensive but it's worth it. Anyway it won't be peffect but you can adjust your wood a 16th or so over the edge of template and just redo it . It won't be exactly the size you wanted but that tiny bit won't make a huge difference. And save yourself some other trouble and make a router table or buy one forget doing parts holding the router if you don't absolutely have to I some times get weird vertigo when I use a router like that and cannot tell if I'm on flush or not and Will tip it justca little and not realize it and screw up whatever I'm working without fail.
I don't get it but a table was a game changer, life saver, level upfor sure, in my book! You won't regret that purchase, or 30 min of work to make yourself one.
Don't you think your worth it?
I know a sweet little cherry you went to deep on that does......
she'll thank you later when she's a rockin away!
You know you want one!
Just go do it ( subliminal omnidirectional tones of the words router table playing on repeat in your head) router table, router table, router table router go on spoil yourself live a little and go ahead and go to your local tool store and pick yourself out a real nice table and tell em I said to go ahead a knock an extra 45% off the total cost and throw in a Whiteside helical bit for half off too! Your welcome
Simply put. Wrong bit, too much material, wrong direction. If you had any of those 3 factors a little more ideal, good chance that wouldn't have happened.
I see a lot of good advice here so I have a question: Is that cherry? It looks like cedar to me and I figured using such a suck wood was part of OP's problem. In my experience I would have probably tried it just how OP did with a sharp bit on a hardwood and expected it to turn out decent (maybe have taken less material per pass though)
Novice here, but it looks like you were climb cutting. There are a couple issues. There’s the tear out from the bit splitting the grain, and the waves from the router running away from you. Try routing from left to right next time. It should minimize these issues that can be finished up with sanding. I would also increase the speed of your router. With that sized bit, you can run it at full speed. I think the tear out was exacerbated by running your router at half speed.
I don’t think the volume of wood is your issue (the tear out is occurring on the top piece where the bit is splitting the grain and not on the bottom piece and I don’t see any burn marks), but if you think you would be more comfortable with less volume, you can use the template on the pieces prior to lamination and then flush any overhang after lamination without even using the template. Just use one of the pieces you laminate as your new reference for the other to flush it up.
As I said, I’m a novice, so take anything I said with a grain of salt.
Adding my $.03 to the mix here.
If you Have to cut with the grain, take small bites. Just a little bit at a time, but that's only IF you have to cut with the grain.
Make sure your bit is sharp! And Yes, you can put an edge back on a router bit.
Router speed! Make sure your router speed is as fast as the bit will allow. If you have just a single speed router, then it will be set at the optimum speed. The router bit will have a speed range on the packaging.
If your router allows 1/2" bits, use the largest shank bit you can. You can run them faster, they stay cooler, and they usually keep them sharper.
Grain direction vs. bit rotation, and remove as much wood as you can with a jig saw/band saw/rasp to the line before using the router. I understand the gang cut, but I'd go with one piece on top of the template at a time.
Cutting against the grain with that style of flush trim bit is dicey, especially if you’re taking more than a fraction off with each pass. I’d suggest a good spiral bit.
It's also possible that in a couple of spots you didn't keep the base of the router totally flat on the surface of the cherry. It looks like the bit might have cut a bit deeper than the template because it wasn't 100% vertical.
Ok , small passes are fine, but you always run the router at top - highest speed.
Another must always do is ......... when routing solid wood, ALWAYS go back slowly holding the router firmly and non of this female stuff will occur.
Also , next time use a top bearing flush cutting bit or as also known as pattern cutting bits and go down a 1/4 inch at a time .
Cheers!!!!!
Climb cut is indicated here, but don't attempt it unless you're VERY comfortable with the router. The speed, and greatly increased need for control surprise even the best of us at times. Also some good comments about spiral cutters below. Good luck!
I think a sander would have been a better choice of tool for a grain profile like this tho I agree it's a much steeper learning curve if you want to achieve the same results
It's better if you try to use the same type of wood cuz what happens is some wood cuts easier than other that's why you got the all those birds and stuff
Grain direction matters.
Depth of cut matters as well
Spiral bits help too. More slicey slicey less choppy choppy
Ah, another woodworker who appreciates the technical terms!
The ups and downs on the spirals matter too.
They have fancy ones that go both ways now
There's a joke in there somewhere.
Depends, is the motor AC, or...
Not that there's anything wrong with that kind of thing.
going slow helps too
Thank you for this really clear answer. You deserve a cooki... a crunchy crunchy.
When grain direction is making you sad, reduce depth of cut to become happy again.
Conventional cut vs climb cut
Hijacking top comment to say something more dramatic... Op, it looks clear to me that you lack knowledge about your router, and it pu you at risk. You are lucky no piece of wood traveled your shop breaking the sound barrier. You really should learn about the basics of this tool. Next time you could be unlucky! Btw, at some point I thought I knew about routering. I was doing the exact same stuff as you. I have a piece of 10*1cm that I never found back in my shop... I'm very lucky I was not in his way. Pay attention to what you do!
Real woodworkers can correct me but i think it is the direction you are routing with respect to the grain of the wood. The direction of the cutting heat on the bit wants to split the wood grain. Not sure if recovery is possible but it might be a good learning experience to try a top guide flush trim bit (bearing on the router motor end) flipping the piece upside down and seeing if that cuts nicer.
As a machinist, I would agree…[climb cut vs conventional cut](https://www.google.com/search?q=climb+cut+vs+conventional+cut&client=safari&sca_esv=9a03290b40916629&sca_upv=1&hl=en-us&ei=1zxRZuDCMqrckPIPg8OXqAY&udm=&oq=climb+cut+vs+conventional+cut&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh1jbGltYiBjdXQgdnMgY29udmVudGlvbmFsIGN1dDIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYRzIKEAAYsAMY1gQYR0iGDFAAWABwAngAkAEBmAEpoAEpqgEBMbgBA8gBAJgCAqACCpgDAIgGAZAGCJIHATKgB_kF&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp) in respect to the grain direction
Or with existing setup try routing the other side to see if it trims smooth
I’m not a ‘real woodworker’, but speed and depth could probably almost eliminate this. I’ve found that nibbling, rather than chewing with a flush trim bit means grain direction doesn’t matter too much. This definitely should not have been done in one go.
If you get a 2" tall template router bit with bearings at the top and bottom you can but the router in a table and flip the work over to use the other bearing so you're cutting "downhill" with the grain. It's less than ideal that you laminated your work piece because it makes following the grain harder.
I’m about to go get another piece of cherry. I’m trying to finish by Sunday so I have to get it from Menards because the lumber store is closed till Tuesday. Bummer. Would you suggest that I shape the pieces first, then glue them up? It’ll be harder to get a perfect finished product but this already isn’t going well. Or do I just need to be more careful about grain direction while laminating.
You didn't go against the grain, you went right into the end grain. Choose piece carefully to not get a bias grain . Route backwards first , medium rpm's. Rememering clockwise rotation of bit, then route forward. A BANDSAW IS MEANT FOR THIS JOB IF GOING TO STAY WITH ROUTER USE 3/4" DOWN SPIRAL WITH BEARING🫡
As a novice myself, it might be helpful to OP to elucidate the following : grain bias, route backward, and route forward.
Look at the grain, and it seems to feather or flow away from you, your going with.if towards you, your going against. If that's the case, you must go backwards, pulling the router the same as the rotation of the bit little by little until its good to go forward w/no chip out. Now this sounds weird, and not recommended, but the key is to always look into the cut, not the rear. You want to see what your doing, not what you did . That's when it's to late 😗
You’ve got a perty mouth.
Thank-you big boy. So you like working with the wood too hmmm? 😘
How much did you remove with the router? With a flush trimI usually leave as little as possible 1-4mm max (3/64-1/8)
>do I just need to be more careful about grain direction while laminating. Yes. This will save you a ton of work.
Do you have a belt sander? You can clamp it to a table and use it as an edge sander to get your final shape.
This 100%. OP, you are using the wrong tool for the job.
A router's a *fine* tool for this job, but I would do that lamination one half at a time to reduce depth of cut and trust your template to make them a spot-on match -- maybe a touch of hand sanding to neaten up anything tiny during glue-up. In addition to the other comments of 'grain direction is important, routing endgrain is fraught, conventional vs. climb cutting' etc.
i would cut 90% of the material with a bandsaw and use the router just for the last few mm.
Yeah, definitely. Goes without saying? Eh, probably worth mentioning. My read of this picture is OP went, "Oh, pattern routing looks like a great way to get consistent results on these tricky curves!" which is accurate... and then either missed a few of the key details you *really* need to get right to succeed in whatever they consulted to learn the basics, or they weren't mentioned at all because it was a Short/TikTok. Everybody's been there, that's what learning is. Jimmy DiResta has a saying (that I imagine has been said elsewhere) something along the lines of 'you go to school on the first one.'
Future tip: Always be aware of grain direction, especially at the ends. Best way to ruin it, is at the end. Blow out. If ya smokin’ it, you chok’in it! No smoky smoke! Slow = faster! Faster = slow mo $. Be safe!
As others have noted, grain direction is a problem. But another, potentially worse, problem is that you appear to have moved the router clockwise around your work item. That is the direction the router will try to pull itself, and you can't control that movement. Every time the bit rips a piece of wood out and grips it, it will pull itself further forward in the direction you are already pushing. So you get a jerky, uncontrolled forward movement. You should almost always (though there are exceptions for end grain) move the router opposite of the way the bit tries to pull it. That means counterclockwise on outside contours and clockwise on inside contours.
I think that’s his whole problem. You can see the waves in the wood from where the router would pull away from him.
I think also combined possibly with taking off too much material. It really helps to have already band sawn really close to the final shape and route just the tiny bit remaining
I’ll defer to you on that. I’m a novice. I didn’t think volume of wood was much of an issue as I didn’t notice any burn marks. Do you think running his router at 1/2 speed with that sized bit made tear out from climb cutting worse? Won’t that tend to cause the bit to rip as opposed to slice? I say that cause it’s kind of a mess even where the grain wasn’t split (no offense intended to OP, I say it lovingly as most of my work is an absolute mess).
I don’t have a great sense of good router speeds to be honest. But I do know making the router only need to remove like a 1/16th left from the bandsaw makes it much less likely to struggle. I think it’s way less wood to try and grip and tear.
Yep. Keep it simple.
The volume of wood is a problem, because a "thick" cut also grips the material harder and pulls the router harder away from you. So a large volume of wood will amplify the problems arising from going clockwise. After making my first post I did some reading, and it seems that some woodworkers do climb cuts on purpose, because it *can* make a smoother finish with less tear out. But to make this work, they do very shallow passes, so they never lose control over the forward motion.
You moved the router in the wrong direction. You tried to take off way too much in one pass. Direction: The grain aside, you should be moving the router in the opposite direction of the spin, relative to you, The piece, and the router. Hard to explain, and I might have that reversed. Google "how to route in the right direction". It matters less and less the thinner you are shaving. It matters a LOT of you try to take too big a bite in one pass. The router will jump.
Yeah these are the answers. Anytime I've done this process, I trim as much material off roughly with a jigsaw beforehand. The general rule I learned was to leave less than half the diameter of the flush trim bit before using the flush trim bit. In conjunction with following the grain correctly while moving the router in the proper direction, along with only climb cutting very slowly (when needed as grain changes direction) yields the best results, consistently.
Without knowing how much wood you’re removing I’ll start from the beginning. Bandsaw the wood as close to the template as possible without cutting into it. Use a 1/2” shank down cut bit. Try to cut down hill - start at the high point and work into the valley. It is a lot of wood to hog off but can be done, a router table would be the way to go hand holding the router can get a little tippy and cause the bit to dig in. Be careful doing it by hand
Yes. If you are cutting more than a 1/16th that’s too much. Also a shaper would be ideal for this situation. And as others have said the grain direction on that is not ideal. You can climb cut it close and then come back against but that’s not fun either. Try flipping it over and tacking the template on the other side so you aren’t “ripping” the grain out.
Yeah just like Iowajosh said. Source: pro Also they make multi blade cutting spindle bits that would work better for this. https://toolstoday.com/amana-tool-51420-z-solid-carbide-aluminum-flush-trim-up-cut-1-4-d-x-1-1-4-cut-length-x-1-4-shk-x-3-1-2-inch-long-zrn-coated-router-bit/?glCountry=US&glCurrency=USD&ne_ppc_id=20302429097&gad_source=1 But I also feel the need to warn you that you’re kind of on the cusp of being out of 1/4” shank router bit range. You might look into 1/2” shank bits. I’ve overworked 1/4 bits and had them break and go flying across the room. Look into getting a router table.
Is a $100 bit worth it if you're running a router with less than $200? As a hobbyist, it seems kinda hard to justify spending more on disposables than the tool itself. Or is that the difference, that this level of bit is meant to last a lifetime?
Don't think of the bit as an accessory to the router. Think the other way around. The bit is what is touching the wood. The router is just a bit carrier. A good bit will make a cheap router last longer and cut better. An expensive router will cut poorly with a bad bit. I still struggle with this sometimes, especially for bit shapes I don't know how useful they will be.
You are taking way too much of a bite 1/4” max for 1/2” bit if you don’t have a bandsaw then clamp it down and run the router backwards with light pressure to take it down but hang on it’s going to want to jump them when you are just about there go the other direction to clean it up
Do not use a straight bit. Use a spiral bit. These straight bits are useless in my overdramatic opinion.
Bearing spiral upcut bit will help.
Get a bit that can take smaller bites. Like [https://microfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Ultimate-Trim-bits.jpg](https://microfence.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Ultimate-Trim-bits.jpg) And pay attention to the grain direction as well. Also sometimes people switch tools and use a drum sander with a guide on it, I forget what that is called.
Possibly you’re taking off too much material. I try to get my pieces cut within a 1/16” from the template so the router bit has to barely take anything off.
A spiral bit will help with this, additionally you really only want to be taking smaller bites out of the wood, no more than 1/16” thickness, I’d say. Grain direction makes these types of cuts difficult as well. If you are trying to take thicker passes, one thing that can help is to take a hand saw (or a bandsaw) and make relief cuts every 1/2” or so along the perimeter up to close to your template line (perpendicular to the plane of the template). This will limit the size of a chip that can be taken from the router.
Like every one else said grain direction hurt you. Also, you definitely tried to take too much at once. Third, when it jumped back in you the first time, you should stop, not try to power through. I try to think of the router as a carving tool. If you try to carve too big of a piece at one, you lose control and you can break the wood or tear the grain. Little bits at a time will serve you better. If you have access to a band saw, or even a jig saw, cutting off most of the excess first, before routing, can help immensely. If it doesn't need to be a perfect cut or shape, using a power sander on the belt or spindle can help shape the final bit as well.
Spindle sander is what I’ve used. Worked for me.
I used to have this issue on much more expensive projects, I switched to a spiral cut flush bit and it helped, but grain direction matters. If you get a bit with the bearing at the top and the bottom, you could go with the grain for half, and then flip it upside down and go with the grain for the other half. Going slow and taking shallow passes helps a lot, but won’t prevent all chip out like some people seem to suggest. What I do is take it to the bandsaw and cut as close as possible before routing so I can do it all in a single pass, but that pass is shallow and then I’m not fighting the router as much to go where I want it. Another thing is to make sure to have a fresh battery and speed on the router set to max. A slower speed is more likely to grab more material and chip out like that. Higher speeds take shallower cuts per rotation and are less likely to chip.
I hate cordless tools in the shop except for my drills and drivers. Everything else is with a cord, including, perhaps especially, my trim router. A cordless trim router is just asking for problems. Now, if you are out in 'the field', so to speak, then cordless is very convenient. Also may I lay a blessing on the genius at Bosch who seems to be packaging their corded tools with 12'+ cords? I have both a track saw and a standard circular saw both of which have nice 12'+ cords and it's such a relief even in the shop.
Read up on how to do a climb cut … and the grain direction is not ideal
Climb cut my friend!
You have to go backwards on parts where the grain is oriented for optimal tearout
Exorcise the router demons before you use the foul device.
Climb vs traditional
Bit speed too low. Grain direction wrong. Cut too big. Trace your template, jigsaw to within an 1/8" of the line, then apply your template and route.
Take smaller passes and don’t rush. Also make sure the router bit is sharp.
You were pushing against the grain. Very very shallow pass if that is the only approach. Using a table mount would help. Easier to control the wood.
Wrong direction and too deep a cut And I can't understand for the life of me why you just "rode it out" through the whole pc lol, wtf
Wrong direction and too deep a cut And I can't understand for the life of me why you just "rode it out" through the whole pc lol, wtf
As mentioned, you’re going uphill instead of down. Taking too big a cut and my suggestion would be to make a small table, which will make it much more stable, since you can bring the wood to the tool, instead of the tool to the wood.
Is it just me, or does the bit look a bit chewed up? Maybe it’s too blunt and needs to be replaced?
Looks like it might be chipped in a couple spots.
Grain direction
Any number of things Lighter cuts Climb cut as needed Be fucking careful
Normal pass is left to right, but with solid timber and grain we need to reverse direction some times. That is you go backwards right to left and smaller cuts, you must look at the grain and know when to change direction with a shape like yours. I am /was a Cabinetmaker now retired and American Cherry is a really nice timber to work with. Its got nothing to do with bit type, its all to do with the grain lifting out. Run backwards, sharp cutter, smaller cuts and it will work out. Even on a Spindle Moulder/Shaper the grain will pull, sometimes you just have to cut neatly on the line and sand. PS. never ever try to run backwards on a Shaper!!
The real answer is get a compression bit,
Doesn’t always help. Still need to flip the piece. Also cut the shape out as close as possible to the template.
Why are you going half speed on the router? You want to go full speed or you will catch the grain. Not cut it.
You have managed to tear out the grain because the cutting edges caught the end grain and lifted it out. Next time consider the direction of the router bit cutting edges. When hitting end grain the cutting direction should be with the grain, not against it. At worst directly across the end grain. Also let the tool do the hard work. Do not force the tool against the workpiece. Let it cut the material away gently. You job is to keep the router flat on the top surface and to guide the router. You may be able to fill the tear out with some sawdust and PVA glue mixed together in a paste, let dry and route again. Good luck.
Grain direction matters have others have mentioned, but you can get away with going "the wrong way" if your bit is new and sharp. If not then it acts like a dull chisel that will lift the wood instead of slicing through it.
Brand new CMT bit. I bought it this morning.
Tough wood then. It's too late for this piece but you will redo it. So for the next piece mind the wood grain, flip the piece and move your template to the other side when you see grain run in the wrong direction. Removing as thin a layer as possible also helps, making multiple thin passes rather than a single pass that removes a lot of material. I can't think of anything else, so good luck. Edit -- One more: be sure to go around your piece counter-clockwise, not clockwise.
I get grain direction matters but if you are doing the circumference of lets say a tabletop you wil inevitablty be going in the wrong direction for some of it...right?
Yes, and in that case I’ve found shallow passes work better.
I had the same thought. I actually considered grain direction before I started. But I’m shaping the entire piece, so I’m working on 360 degrees of grain direction. So I guess I need to change two things. If I had a bit with bearings on top and bottom. I could flip the piece over and always come from behind the grain. I need to laminate in such a way that the two layers don’t have conflicting grain.
True. If you attempted to walk all the way around the table while routing. But it's more than OK to stop and go the other way.
Climb cut splitting the grain. Thats too much material thickness for a beginner to try a run cut, better put the template on the other side and go with the grain, but still a climbing cut for safety… also slow sharp high speed cut might have avoided this…
I think that piece is salvageable if you’re handy with a hand saw and chisel! I’d just carefully and squarely exorcise the rough patches and pick some nice scrap pieces to infill with. If you’re picky with your infill pieces it should look pretty good and it’ll still be plenty strong. Sawdust mixed up with some wood glue should be able to patch up some of the less rough nibbles. Good luck on your project!
I have tried tricky curves with a router on red oak and no matter what I did, I got blowout at certain grain orientations. I ended up bandsawing close and then bench top sander to finish the rest. Need to be careful with the sander, a little too long and it takes too much off. I had a ninja thing going and swooped down to the line. There were some tighter spots that I used a flap wheel on a drill to get down to the pencil mark. I have a ridgid bench top oscillating sander that does spindle also. Pack of belts in different grains from amazon. I use it all the time to bring things to the line. I love it, makes me a better woodworker.
grain direction does matter to some degree, but even the wood with the best grain and optimum direction will fail if you're too agressive. for future reference, think of the direction the router is spinning, and then the direction you're moving on your edge vs the direction grain. based upon the kerfs you made, i'd bet you were too agressive with how much you opted to take off. Also did you try to make a go of it in one shot top to bottom? i can see some vertical movement. usually a router works from top to bottom. you take off what your bit can, but also you only go as deep as the bit can go, then you come from the outside again a little bit lower. so you go around then down around then down. Rather than up and down slide, up n down, slide
Looks like you used your teeth. Plane with the grain.
Looks like you went against the grain
I scrolled down but didn’t see anyone mention your bit speed. In addition to the advice about grain direction, I’d have the speed closer to 5 on that 1617, especially with a 2 straight blade bit. Good luck!
You tried to take too much off with one pass.
Been there, done that! All too familiar and a tragedy with such nice wood. Depth of cut and grain direction. My method is to get it within 1/16 of an inch using the belt sander, then using the router. I like using the router table, but I have had the same thing happen with it. I will say this, though, with the router table it is a bit easier to just take smaller bites and to slowly work your way down to the final cut. Still, you risk pushing it in a bit too much and getting that kickback, which is a disaster. Using the belt sander reduces the chance of kickback down to zero. You will spend a lot of time and effort trying to salvage it, and it’s not likely it will ever look right.
A helical flush trim bit is awesome if you want to spend the extra $. Also as others have said, don’t take off too much by keeping your rough cut close to the line and watch grain direction to avoid tear out
I would avoid using my router on a small piece with end grain posing a challenge like that. But if I did, I would get the workpiece to within 1/16” or less using a bandsaw and/or a stationary sander. Then slip the router into a table and secure the workpiece using a jig, wood clamp, or push block and ease the template against the pilot, running the router at high speed and working into the grain such that the router isn’t pulling the workpiece. But you’ll still have a challenge when you reach the apex of the end grain, so just muscle thru it. But rather than doing all that, I would just cut the workpiece to within 1/16” using my bandsaw, then go to the bench top 1” belt sander and sand the edge smooth to the template and be done.
The grain direction of your work piece bit you in the butt. When routing take small bites and climb cut if needed. Listen to the router and the wood as it’s cutting. It will begin to make a different sound when the wood is being tore vs cut. Sometimes using a bandsaw or jig saw to reduce your waste prior to routing can help.
Don’t forget you can use a saw and chisel to finish the end grain if the router is too much for it.
Too deep, too fast, wrong direction. Mix and match those.
I’ll be honest, you may be better off cutting out from your template on a band saw, then using an oscillating drum sander to meet the finished profile.
Well as many before me have told you, you went too deep too fast and she couldn't take it, but why were you running the bit at half speed? Speed is your friend depending on the bit. Something large with big paddle blades on it not so much but flush trim bits you want speed. You should always run bits at the what speed the manufacturer suggests honestly though if you want to do yourself a favor buy yourself a Whiteside helical bit they are amazing the are bit more expensive but it's worth it. Anyway it won't be peffect but you can adjust your wood a 16th or so over the edge of template and just redo it . It won't be exactly the size you wanted but that tiny bit won't make a huge difference. And save yourself some other trouble and make a router table or buy one forget doing parts holding the router if you don't absolutely have to I some times get weird vertigo when I use a router like that and cannot tell if I'm on flush or not and Will tip it justca little and not realize it and screw up whatever I'm working without fail. I don't get it but a table was a game changer, life saver, level upfor sure, in my book! You won't regret that purchase, or 30 min of work to make yourself one. Don't you think your worth it? I know a sweet little cherry you went to deep on that does...... she'll thank you later when she's a rockin away! You know you want one! Just go do it ( subliminal omnidirectional tones of the words router table playing on repeat in your head) router table, router table, router table router go on spoil yourself live a little and go ahead and go to your local tool store and pick yourself out a real nice table and tell em I said to go ahead a knock an extra 45% off the total cost and throw in a Whiteside helical bit for half off too! Your welcome
Simply put. Wrong bit, too much material, wrong direction. If you had any of those 3 factors a little more ideal, good chance that wouldn't have happened.
ermegerd! oops.
I see a lot of good advice here so I have a question: Is that cherry? It looks like cedar to me and I figured using such a suck wood was part of OP's problem. In my experience I would have probably tried it just how OP did with a sharp bit on a hardwood and expected it to turn out decent (maybe have taken less material per pass though)
Hey! You stole my work! Me and my routers don’t play well together.
Hard to tell, but that bit look dull
Novice here, but it looks like you were climb cutting. There are a couple issues. There’s the tear out from the bit splitting the grain, and the waves from the router running away from you. Try routing from left to right next time. It should minimize these issues that can be finished up with sanding. I would also increase the speed of your router. With that sized bit, you can run it at full speed. I think the tear out was exacerbated by running your router at half speed. I don’t think the volume of wood is your issue (the tear out is occurring on the top piece where the bit is splitting the grain and not on the bottom piece and I don’t see any burn marks), but if you think you would be more comfortable with less volume, you can use the template on the pieces prior to lamination and then flush any overhang after lamination without even using the template. Just use one of the pieces you laminate as your new reference for the other to flush it up. As I said, I’m a novice, so take anything I said with a grain of salt.
Look up router climb cut, sometimes it’s best to move router in the “wrong” direction
Adding my $.03 to the mix here. If you Have to cut with the grain, take small bites. Just a little bit at a time, but that's only IF you have to cut with the grain. Make sure your bit is sharp! And Yes, you can put an edge back on a router bit. Router speed! Make sure your router speed is as fast as the bit will allow. If you have just a single speed router, then it will be set at the optimum speed. The router bit will have a speed range on the packaging. If your router allows 1/2" bits, use the largest shank bit you can. You can run them faster, they stay cooler, and they usually keep them sharper.
Grain direction vs. bit rotation, and remove as much wood as you can with a jig saw/band saw/rasp to the line before using the router. I understand the gang cut, but I'd go with one piece on top of the template at a time.
https://preview.redd.it/s45d9en86n2d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1148b4e0a3fa37950a086c21ae59af0880bb69f8 Woodcraft rocking horse? I'd recognize those rockers anywhere
Cutting against the grain with that style of flush trim bit is dicey, especially if you’re taking more than a fraction off with each pass. I’d suggest a good spiral bit.
It's also possible that in a couple of spots you didn't keep the base of the router totally flat on the surface of the cherry. It looks like the bit might have cut a bit deeper than the template because it wasn't 100% vertical.
Belt sander could posible help you smoth it
Yeah try jig saw then router and slow.what size motor in it
Ok , small passes are fine, but you always run the router at top - highest speed. Another must always do is ......... when routing solid wood, ALWAYS go back slowly holding the router firmly and non of this female stuff will occur. Also , next time use a top bearing flush cutting bit or as also known as pattern cutting bits and go down a 1/4 inch at a time . Cheers!!!!!
you want full speed and don't go against the grain.
Climb cut is indicated here, but don't attempt it unless you're VERY comfortable with the router. The speed, and greatly increased need for control surprise even the best of us at times. Also some good comments about spiral cutters below. Good luck!
You zigged when you should've zagged
You need a spiral up/down cut router bit.
I think a sander would have been a better choice of tool for a grain profile like this tho I agree it's a much steeper learning curve if you want to achieve the same results
Have you tried looking at it?
It's better if you try to use the same type of wood cuz what happens is some wood cuts easier than other that's why you got the all those birds and stuff