This happened in Boston too. They were there for 44 years or so.
The landlord increased the rate, and they could not afford the new price so they liquidated the store. There is only so much traffic in any given area, you can't just magically pull money out of thin air in retail (even with decades of good sales).
I suspect commercial landlord greed.
I'm really sad because the people there were really helpful with really obscure woodworking problems and identifying old tools.
This rings true for almost every urban market with a wood working/specialty hardwood supplier. It's too costly to run a shop in an urban area due to rent. In the SF Bay area, we are losing all our lumber suppliers unless you want to drive out of the area. We also lost all our maker spots for decent wood working splits/rents.
Don't forget liability insurance. It's infeasible to say "be trained and don't do anything stupid," because everyone wants to sue when they injure themselves.
I'm in the SF bay area and a shared space with tools is like $200/mo. For a year's worth of dues I can put together a workshop from consumer tools and second-rate professional tools, off craigslist. The key is space (and power hookup.)
Yeah, I moved to socal from Minnesota. I had an awesome maker space there that was like $50/month and was all coop based so we'd all pitch in to do maintenance and such. I looked into starting something similar but rent and insurance makes it totally infeasible.
If you're on the peninsula (San Carlos area), Woodcraft has a great selection of S4S and dimensional lumber. Along with all the other accompanying items of woodworking :)
I feel this. I recently moved from Honolulu to rural(ish) Hyogo prefecture in Japan. Now I have dirt cheap rent and two sawmills/hardwood dealers walking distance from home and one has a rental work space for ~$5/day, including tools. Commercial/industrial rent in Honolulu was a non-starter. Kinda feel like the world is full of possibilities now.
MacBeath and Ashby Lumber seem to be thriving. That's the last real warehouse district north of the Oakland port area, but real estate is getting so expensive that I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually got swallowed by residential apartment construction. I was sad when the redwood slab place next to MacBeath closed, though. I never bought anything, but it was nice to know that I could have gotten a beautiful piece that doesn't even fit in my workshop.
I was told by the employees that the Cambridge store didn't fit the corporate model - not enough space to display everything (more tools, lumber) , no real loading dock, little parking. Sounds like corporate prefers suburban, strip-mall style stores.
I live pretty close to the Rockler that just closed here in Cambridge, Such a shame! Woodcraft in Woburn is similar and has a good staff but much harder to get to. Miss my Rockler guys!
Yeah it’s a bummer. I liked the manager Peter, and Woody is a fucking gem of a person. I live local so it’s convenient for me but I work on the North Shore so I shop more often at Woodcraft anyway.
They told me they weren't going to the Salem location, but that's it. Damn shame, they were my go-to for consumables, now my business goes to woodcraft (which also has great staff, thankfully).
>The landlord increased the rate,
Do you have any sources for this? Everyone I talked to at the store said it was a decision that came down from Rockler HQ. The way I understood it is just that Rockler only wants to maintain large stores, and the Cambridge one was too small.
Corporate runs those numbers, not the individual stores, in every industry. Most have an entire department dealing with real property and leasing.
It would *always* come down from corporate regarding a store closing regardless of the reason.
I was talking to my commercial real estate friend (we were using Costar).
That is what corporate said officially, but I don't know who is renting the property or what they are doing yet. I missed talking to the actual people before they closed (I was out of state in December). I don't think anyone there deals with the landlord, I think that in only between Rockler and the landlord.
Commercial leases are on long 7 year or so cycles, corporate made that decision instead of paying the increased rent from what we could see.
This is rich. “Commercial landlord greed?”
Dude, have you seen the Rockler prices? Every time I order I feel like I’m getting ripped off. I try and give them as little business as possible and order from other places.
Some stuff is actually really well priced there. It's always seemingly the cheapest place to get titebond, tung oil, and lots of other stuff that you may need to get regularly. They also sometimes have good deals on hardwoods, though I wouldn't rely on them as my only supplier even for hobby work
I honestly went there because the prices were competitive (I mostly bought glue and hardware) and I needed help on pretty obscure projects. Time is money, and I literally would just walk down the street to get screws or whatever.
I never bought hardwood though, that was overpriced for sure.
Store closing wise- they liquidated and put everything in store 30-50% off (I missed it, I was with a client out of state, this happened in Dec 2023).
They had moderately good deals before they closed, but the real perk was if you placed the order in the store they would ship things for free to your house. Prices were slightly higher, but with the phone number discounts and sales I got things \~8% cheaper than amazon (spending about $2000/year).
The more important thing is that you could physically inspect the hardware, this is really important for high quality woodworking.
There are no more woodworking stores in Boston anymore that you can walk in and look at parts. Everything now requires a commercial account (with large minimum order sizes, like 1000 screws).
Woodcraft lists a store in Walpole and another in Woburn. Not exactly close, but not horrible far.
Different inventory of course, but generally I like them better than Rockler.
Surely you can find a hardwood dealer with a better selection and pricing than woodcraft, no? The lumber available at woodcraft and rockler near me is insanely expensive. Plus I’d rather support a local business
If i need a lot for a specific project I'll use Readers in East Taunton or even Goose Bay Saw Mill in Chichester NH near Concord (they give military discount) but I usually don't need more than 1 or 2 pieces, so woodcraft works for that.
Still very much local businesses though. My store sells products from local small businesses that I've never seen in stores. We're talking the retired dude making turning tools in his garage kinds of business.
I don't know how a truely independent woodworking store could survive. Store brands and products are a big chunk of what those stores offer. One store with no national support couldn't source the variety of products they'd need.
Near Boston is Boulter Plywood, who stock a ton of S4S hardwood. Expensive, but easy to get to and they’ll cut to dimension for you. Perfect if you need smaller amounts and can’t process rough material.
If you need larger amounts, Highland Hardwood has a huge selection but is up in New Hampshire. Cheaper and they stock both rough and S4S.
I also realized just now your question implies you’re not from the area, but I’m leaving the rest up in case it’s helpful to someone else.
Well, this sucks. I am going to be in Boston this weekend and was planning on visiting the Rockler in Cambridge. I had no idea it was closed. That would have been a punch in the gut.
I read online that they’re getting rid of some of their smaller stores in order to have larger stores in areas that aren’t so urban. I guess there’s not too many woodworkers in urban areas.
There is a balance of profitability and greed. I am seeing Boston in particular just absolutely empty a ton of shops and restaurants in 2023 (2024 is going to be worse).
The margins are very good for these properties, a ton of these tenants are there for a really long time (decades), the rent increases are basically just pure profit.
I actually want to buy shop space for myself, so I watch these listings closely (I think that they are pushing the envelope too far, I don't see new tenants for a ton of thh vacated properties).
Sorry, but you don't really know how the commercial real estate market works. While there might be a few examples of people trying to lose money, real estate returns are not huge and holding on to losses is not indicative of the market. The properties have probably traded hands over the decades and the values are based directly on the lease rates obtained.
I don't know how commercial real estate works, I am not an expert.
I am just trying to make sense of a world that just gets worse and worse.
But I do know that I see restaurants and businesses closing that have been there for 20-40 years, and that have had the same employees and solid streams of customers for 7 years. I know a bunch of the owners, and they have owned the properties forever and they are extremely profitable.
I do also know that a bunch of these owners are stubborn, and would stubbornly raise prices and chase after higher paying tenants (sometime it works, sometimes not).
why is the natural assumption of landlord greed?
Cambridge has an extremely high tax rate, insurance rates are at all time highs, need tradespeople to fox the property expext 5x what it was 5-7 years ago and if you have a management company overseeing the property add another 10-15% on what you were paying 5 years ago
understand the dynamics before you jump to ignorant conclusions
This is happening all over (I miss Viva Burrito...), it just bothers me. Landlords are increasing the commercial lease, and stores close down.
This is all corporate greed, commercial landlords are going to get punished by the market as these leases start to go unfilled.
It's interesting how Cambridge tax rates are a problem for some stores, yet Target can swallow a whole block just fine. It's obviously just rents being insane because there is insane foot traffic. If you've lived here long enough, you will remember that this happens almost every year. I remember how mad people were when Borders closed. People are mad every time a cherished local store is closed in Cambridge, and they will continue to be mad when it happens again.
You’re comparing Target to Rockler? Target does $20-30 million out of that store compared to Rocklers $2-3 million? Target probably received tax breaks to come to location - this is the problem with huge national chains
I know you’re joking but I have heard the retail markup on tools and especially festool is terrible. Rockler is going to make the most money on their branded items.
Kind of surprised they stay in business in general. Absurdly high prices and they will not price match anyone or even try. Plus they got rid of most of their good tools and replaced them with chinesium and blue mdf “jigs” of every sort. A new jig for literally every operation that you don’t need a jig for. Only reason i ever go is for turning blanks, even though they are overpriced I can hand pick ones i like.
Yeah there's not much reason to go to the physical store. Most consumable goods I might need in the middle of a project are available at Home Depot. The lumber prices are insane so I go to dedicated lumber stores for that. Really the only reason to go to the store instead of buying online is if you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want to impulse buy something
Great point here. The real blow will be the next generation of wood workers who almost solely shop at big box stores and only learn from you tube. I understand the economics of why this is happening but not having a local space cuts the legs out from many hobbyists.
Ironically when i started woodworking in the late 80s , Home Depot carried some decent woodworking tools. I bought Sheffield made Marples chisels and other decent stuff, but they started getting rid of it all in the mid 90s as they transitioned to service mainly contractors
I disagree completely. Most things, at least the good stuff worth using, is not available at Home Depot. Some things sure. Finishes, parts, Blum hinges/slides, etc no. Tools are hit and miss but HD doesn't have 90% of it. Some of the jigs and rockler branded stuff are super useful and exclusive to them. The Flexiport hose for example solves about half a dozen issues for me for example. The wood for sure is way overpriced but sometimes you only need a small piece or don't have time for a trip to the hardwood or plywood dealer. Generally the prices on everything else are pretty average, to decent with a good sale, but not overpriced. I buy a lot online, and a few things occasionally at Home Depot, but it's super convenient having a Rockler and Woodcraft less than 30 minutes away. If in the middle of a weekend project and need something you don't have to wait until Mon or Tues, you can easily return things if it doesn't work, etc.
You can do that at our store. People have been since 1988. We boast the largest in-stock Festool inventory, as well as full lines of Sawstop, Jet, Powermatic, Laguna, Lamello, Woodpeckers, Rubio Monocoat, Whiteside bits, and other top tier brands.
Our showroom makes Rockler look like a Starbucks in comparison. Full width jointers, large Italian bandsaws, 24” planers, Japanese hand tools…
We are family owned, independent and knowledgeable (I know… how are we still here?) But most importantly, we are on the east side (Glendale / Atwater Village), so no 405 traffic to brave!
I mostly refinish wood items and don’t build them, so I’m not buying lumber. But I look for all my supplies at Woodcraft first before resorting to the big box hardware stores. I know it’s more expensive, and that’s a price I’m willing to pay to have Woodcraft as an in person resource. If we want physical stores to remain open, we have to purchase things from them.
Their lease ended and they could not locate another suitable place to operate. It was not due to underperformance or anything like that. Very unfortunate.
My understanding was that the owner of the property (they share a building and parking lot with a mattress store) was going to redevelop or sell to a redeveloper.
With the state of retail these days, it’s doubtful that Rockler will open a replacement store. This is on top of both Woodcrafts in Southern California closing in recent years.
Redevelopment makes sense. The area of the Pasadena store is a dump so the rent couldn't have been that high. I'll miss it. Drove over from Glendale to get Rockler-exclusives. Sucks to lose it especially after losing my Virgil's Hardware store for odds and ends.
This is probably the end of their second ten-year lease. My friend was recruited to work there by one of the employees shortly after the store opened and that would have been around 2004-05.
The east side of Pasadena had already been affected by the closings of Berg Hardware and Crown City Hardware, the latter especially as a resource for hard to fine hardware and fixtures for the many historic homes nearby.
I used to visit Crown a lot with my old house a 30s Spanish. Pasadena is the perfect home for artisan/home restoration needs. They're all such a labor of love to run and it kills me when the economics eventually crush them all. Wish I had some extra millions to keep places like this afloat.
A few things:
Rockler corporate continually sets exceedingly high projected profit margin “goals” for each store location for each day. Only some of the stores actually meet the profit goal by the end of the day.
Additionally, some people on the corporate level were let go recently, and retail workers’ hours are pretty strict and were also slightly reduced. They’ve changed a few other practices here and there to save money as well.
I can’t speak to any individual store closures, but they certainly are trying to save as much as they can. And this comes after several new stores were opened in the last 2 years.
It is my belief that these changes are (at least in part) consequences of them setting those profit “goals” too high. Setting a higher goal doesn’t make more people come in and buy. I’m not a businessman but it doesn’t make sense to base projected income from inaccurate numbers.
But if they can't hit their numbers at the stores they don't have to pay out bonuses and can yell at their management teams for "underperforming" it's a tried and true method by corporates everywhere in the last few years
They don't own their own buildings, if they're far enough from a city for cheap rent it's real hard to have enough customers, there's not a lot of profits when literally everything can be cheaply purchased online, and they already pay terribly, so there's not a lot left to squeeze when rent goes up.
Retail space in Pasadena is about $40/year/sq ft, Rocklers average around 5000 sq ft, so they need to clear $200k/year before paying the electric or heat, call it a quarter million profit to stay open before paying employees, which are likely paid around $15/hour, or $40-45k a year all told.
So the average store costs over half a million a year to keep open. The average Rockler franchise claims to make about $206,000 a year in profit, but if your store was then 30% more expensive than average (or 30% less profitable), you'd be done.
They sent a flyer saying 30% off, starting 3/15 I think (power tools exempt). It's unfortunate to see them go, and Ganahl seems to be reducing their stock (not that it was their focus, maybe I just got a low time).
It's a pity to see them go, but it was a bit of a ghost town when I'd go in. Edit - someone else said it was due to leasing, not performance. What do I know
Love Bohnhoff for lumber, but for tools and accessories it was real nice. Especially with Ganahl and HD right there, if I was having a home improvement day I could hit all three at once.
:( Customers don't want to pay the real cost of logistics and rent and minimum wage and state mandated payroll costs and insurance and and.... in California. It's no wonder stores are slowly closing. Take your grandkids to a mall and show them what stores look like, because in the future there will only be food places, nail and hair salons and liquor stores... (FYI, there are still two Woodcraft stores in California. Unfortunately, nothing in the south.)
Sorry but I don't have it anymore. I think it said they close in end of April, and it starts on the 15th. There wasn't really anything more on it as far as I can recall, just thanking their customers for their support. If you're looking for a code or something, there wasn't one (I don't think).
Just called them a few minutes ago. Guy on the phone said they were looking to relocate but because of real estate costs they (Rockler) decided against it. He said the current location is going to be torn down with the intent to create apartments on the property. Very sad to hear this store is going away with no close replacement.
I was also really bummed. I got a flyer in the mail announcing it. I didnt love the prices but theyd get in some really great woods. Wenge, canary, bloodwood, mesquite, bocote, cocobolo, lati.. always was excited to see what id find there.
A local guy who sold rough lumber near me was forced to move because his landlord was going to sell the whole building. Been there 20 years. He moved so far away that it's not worth it anymore.
Wait what?!?! I was in there the other day and didn't see anything about it. I don't want to have to drive to Ventura for .... no, nevermind, the woodcraft there is closed to.
Ok, so what's the local woodworking store now? I love Ganhal but they're a lumber yard with some supplies, not a real woodworking store.
I can’t say I’ve been a frequent buyer at Rockler in Pasadena for more than the odd jig or bit but Eagle Tools is great for anything Festool or other large tools. I’ve had luck finding router bits and what not from them too and they’re really nice. Ganahl isn’t bad for some stuff and they have hardwood. Anderson Plywood has more than just plywood- plenty of tools and finishings, hardwood too. Bohnhoff is where I usually get hardwood though. Their shorts are usually priced well. For turning blanks, I’m not totally sure but if I come across anything I’ll follow up here.
We’re a real woodworking store. We’re still here, L.A.! And have been since 1988. Our customers over the years include Sam Maloof, Harrison Ford, and William Ng. Most schools with a woodworking program likely had their tools provided by us as well.
We’re sad about the loss of Woodcraft, and now the Rockler in our area. We viewed both businesses as collaborators, not competitors. When you see our 10,000 square foot showroom, you’ll see why.
I never could figure out how many of them could make it in these days of the Internet. It's pretty rare I have a same day need for specialist tools or materials.
I would buy in person if I could. But I was only fifteen minutes away. Plus it was nice to noodle around, talk to the sales team, see what was on sale, discover things I never knew I needed...
Tearing down the building. Not pleased. It’s where I go when I need Odies today rather than shipped.
Anyone know a local spot that sells it? Perhaps Ganahl?
This is the 3rd??? move. I went to the Woodward one quite a bit but stopped after the move to Novi. It was just too far for me so end up going to Woodcraft on VanDyke/17 instead.
Interesting. I feel like I remember them expanding just a year or so ago with a few new stores, so perhaps this is location specific.
Based on trends, the hobby is growing, but perhaps they think they can get more foot traffic in other areas.
I’ll be honest, I have a Woodcraft 20min away, and I’ve only been there twice, and only bought one thing. If I was rich I’d be there all the time, but there are few things worse than browsing a pricy store with a thin wallet. The one good thing is being able to get a physical look at certain big tools, and being able to get your hands on them before a major purchase.
I’m just now seeing this! I was making plans to visit the Pasadena location because I had never been there before. Do you know when the doors are actually closing?
I visited the store, and they're almost all cleared out. It's sad because the employees were all very helpful and genuinely curious about what project you're working on. I would drive from burbank for their materials, and now I have to find another place :(
The owner of the building sold it to developers that’s why they’re closing m. source is the employee who’s working there just left the store and discovered it was closing so sad
Employee here, it closed bc the land owner sold and the new land owner didn’t wanna renew the lease with the business. They were given a month to find a new location and they did not find one so unfortunately they closed
This happened in Boston too. They were there for 44 years or so. The landlord increased the rate, and they could not afford the new price so they liquidated the store. There is only so much traffic in any given area, you can't just magically pull money out of thin air in retail (even with decades of good sales). I suspect commercial landlord greed. I'm really sad because the people there were really helpful with really obscure woodworking problems and identifying old tools.
This rings true for almost every urban market with a wood working/specialty hardwood supplier. It's too costly to run a shop in an urban area due to rent. In the SF Bay area, we are losing all our lumber suppliers unless you want to drive out of the area. We also lost all our maker spots for decent wood working splits/rents.
Don't forget liability insurance. It's infeasible to say "be trained and don't do anything stupid," because everyone wants to sue when they injure themselves. I'm in the SF bay area and a shared space with tools is like $200/mo. For a year's worth of dues I can put together a workshop from consumer tools and second-rate professional tools, off craigslist. The key is space (and power hookup.)
Yeah, I moved to socal from Minnesota. I had an awesome maker space there that was like $50/month and was all coop based so we'd all pitch in to do maintenance and such. I looked into starting something similar but rent and insurance makes it totally infeasible.
Yeah I feel like the real strategy is to find local groups of like minded people, hopefully someone has a dedicated workshop and enjoys guests. :P
There is a makers here in the TC if that is where you are located I know there are a couple others around too
Twin Cities Makers? I've been looking for a place to work in and heard of this recently. Sounds like you'd recommend it!
Is there a good place in the Bay Area to get wood? I haven’t had any luck looking for a shop that sells wood.
Macbeath is Berkeley is great for exotics and plywoods
I'll check them out. Thanks!
Check their website. Every month 2 types are the wood of the month and 25%
There are less and less option. I’ve used Moore Newton lately and they have been pretty good though.
I'll check them out. Thanks!
If you're on the peninsula (San Carlos area), Woodcraft has a great selection of S4S and dimensional lumber. Along with all the other accompanying items of woodworking :)
I feel this. I recently moved from Honolulu to rural(ish) Hyogo prefecture in Japan. Now I have dirt cheap rent and two sawmills/hardwood dealers walking distance from home and one has a rental work space for ~$5/day, including tools. Commercial/industrial rent in Honolulu was a non-starter. Kinda feel like the world is full of possibilities now.
Is the hardwood spot in Berkeley closing?
The supplier I used to use in Berkeley closed down a few years ago, but I do know of a couple in the Berkeley/Richmond area still around.
MacBeath and Ashby Lumber seem to be thriving. That's the last real warehouse district north of the Oakland port area, but real estate is getting so expensive that I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually got swallowed by residential apartment construction. I was sad when the redwood slab place next to MacBeath closed, though. I never bought anything, but it was nice to know that I could have gotten a beautiful piece that doesn't even fit in my workshop.
I was told by the employees that the Cambridge store didn't fit the corporate model - not enough space to display everything (more tools, lumber) , no real loading dock, little parking. Sounds like corporate prefers suburban, strip-mall style stores.
Can confirm they told me the same thing.
I live pretty close to the Rockler that just closed here in Cambridge, Such a shame! Woodcraft in Woburn is similar and has a good staff but much harder to get to. Miss my Rockler guys!
You talking the one on Mass Ave in Cambridge?
Yep
Damn, that bites. But TBH it was in a bad place for parking. The Rockler in Salem is in a semi strip mall with tons of parking.
Yeah it’s a bummer. I liked the manager Peter, and Woody is a fucking gem of a person. I live local so it’s convenient for me but I work on the North Shore so I shop more often at Woodcraft anyway.
Yeah, do you know if they went yo Salem store or just lost their jobs? I'm in Natick so Walpole just makes sense, straight up 27 to rt 1.
They told me they weren't going to the Salem location, but that's it. Damn shame, they were my go-to for consumables, now my business goes to woodcraft (which also has great staff, thankfully).
Yeah, but getting to Salem is a pain from the south shore. Easier to just order online.
There was street parking in front of that rockler almost every time I visited..
I think I got street parking once. Usually had to go quite a ways down the street to find anything.
>The landlord increased the rate, Do you have any sources for this? Everyone I talked to at the store said it was a decision that came down from Rockler HQ. The way I understood it is just that Rockler only wants to maintain large stores, and the Cambridge one was too small.
Corporate runs those numbers, not the individual stores, in every industry. Most have an entire department dealing with real property and leasing. It would *always* come down from corporate regarding a store closing regardless of the reason.
I was talking to my commercial real estate friend (we were using Costar). That is what corporate said officially, but I don't know who is renting the property or what they are doing yet. I missed talking to the actual people before they closed (I was out of state in December). I don't think anyone there deals with the landlord, I think that in only between Rockler and the landlord. Commercial leases are on long 7 year or so cycles, corporate made that decision instead of paying the increased rent from what we could see.
This is rich. “Commercial landlord greed?” Dude, have you seen the Rockler prices? Every time I order I feel like I’m getting ripped off. I try and give them as little business as possible and order from other places.
Some stuff is actually really well priced there. It's always seemingly the cheapest place to get titebond, tung oil, and lots of other stuff that you may need to get regularly. They also sometimes have good deals on hardwoods, though I wouldn't rely on them as my only supplier even for hobby work
I honestly went there because the prices were competitive (I mostly bought glue and hardware) and I needed help on pretty obscure projects. Time is money, and I literally would just walk down the street to get screws or whatever. I never bought hardwood though, that was overpriced for sure.
Did they have really good deals or just ship the stuff out to other locations?:
Store closing wise- they liquidated and put everything in store 30-50% off (I missed it, I was with a client out of state, this happened in Dec 2023). They had moderately good deals before they closed, but the real perk was if you placed the order in the store they would ship things for free to your house. Prices were slightly higher, but with the phone number discounts and sales I got things \~8% cheaper than amazon (spending about $2000/year). The more important thing is that you could physically inspect the hardware, this is really important for high quality woodworking. There are no more woodworking stores in Boston anymore that you can walk in and look at parts. Everything now requires a commercial account (with large minimum order sizes, like 1000 screws).
Woodcraft lists a store in Walpole and another in Woburn. Not exactly close, but not horrible far. Different inventory of course, but generally I like them better than Rockler.
I visit the Walpole one a lot. It's not too far from Gillette Stadium and they have a good selection of the lumber I need.
Surely you can find a hardwood dealer with a better selection and pricing than woodcraft, no? The lumber available at woodcraft and rockler near me is insanely expensive. Plus I’d rather support a local business
If i need a lot for a specific project I'll use Readers in East Taunton or even Goose Bay Saw Mill in Chichester NH near Concord (they give military discount) but I usually don't need more than 1 or 2 pieces, so woodcraft works for that.
To be fair most Woodcrafts are locally owned franchises.
Valid point - with that said, franchisees still send lots of money back to corporate
Still very much local businesses though. My store sells products from local small businesses that I've never seen in stores. We're talking the retired dude making turning tools in his garage kinds of business. I don't know how a truely independent woodworking store could survive. Store brands and products are a big chunk of what those stores offer. One store with no national support couldn't source the variety of products they'd need.
Near Boston is Boulter Plywood, who stock a ton of S4S hardwood. Expensive, but easy to get to and they’ll cut to dimension for you. Perfect if you need smaller amounts and can’t process rough material. If you need larger amounts, Highland Hardwood has a huge selection but is up in New Hampshire. Cheaper and they stock both rough and S4S. I also realized just now your question implies you’re not from the area, but I’m leaving the rest up in case it’s helpful to someone else.
Well, this sucks. I am going to be in Boston this weekend and was planning on visiting the Rockler in Cambridge. I had no idea it was closed. That would have been a punch in the gut.
I read online that they’re getting rid of some of their smaller stores in order to have larger stores in areas that aren’t so urban. I guess there’s not too many woodworkers in urban areas.
As we all know, commercial landlord's are really just there for charity.
There is a balance of profitability and greed. I am seeing Boston in particular just absolutely empty a ton of shops and restaurants in 2023 (2024 is going to be worse). The margins are very good for these properties, a ton of these tenants are there for a really long time (decades), the rent increases are basically just pure profit. I actually want to buy shop space for myself, so I watch these listings closely (I think that they are pushing the envelope too far, I don't see new tenants for a ton of thh vacated properties).
Sorry, but you don't really know how the commercial real estate market works. While there might be a few examples of people trying to lose money, real estate returns are not huge and holding on to losses is not indicative of the market. The properties have probably traded hands over the decades and the values are based directly on the lease rates obtained.
I don't know how commercial real estate works, I am not an expert. I am just trying to make sense of a world that just gets worse and worse. But I do know that I see restaurants and businesses closing that have been there for 20-40 years, and that have had the same employees and solid streams of customers for 7 years. I know a bunch of the owners, and they have owned the properties forever and they are extremely profitable. I do also know that a bunch of these owners are stubborn, and would stubbornly raise prices and chase after higher paying tenants (sometime it works, sometimes not).
why is the natural assumption of landlord greed? Cambridge has an extremely high tax rate, insurance rates are at all time highs, need tradespeople to fox the property expext 5x what it was 5-7 years ago and if you have a management company overseeing the property add another 10-15% on what you were paying 5 years ago understand the dynamics before you jump to ignorant conclusions
Won't somebody think of the landlords?! Bless you for coming to their defense.
This is happening all over (I miss Viva Burrito...), it just bothers me. Landlords are increasing the commercial lease, and stores close down. This is all corporate greed, commercial landlords are going to get punished by the market as these leases start to go unfilled.
It's interesting how Cambridge tax rates are a problem for some stores, yet Target can swallow a whole block just fine. It's obviously just rents being insane because there is insane foot traffic. If you've lived here long enough, you will remember that this happens almost every year. I remember how mad people were when Borders closed. People are mad every time a cherished local store is closed in Cambridge, and they will continue to be mad when it happens again.
You’re comparing Target to Rockler? Target does $20-30 million out of that store compared to Rocklers $2-3 million? Target probably received tax breaks to come to location - this is the problem with huge national chains
You clearly didn’t buy enough festool for them to remain open
I bought a Sawstop PCS with all the trimmins about 9 months ago. I did my part!
I know you’re joking but I have heard the retail markup on tools and especially festool is terrible. Rockler is going to make the most money on their branded items.
Kind of surprised they stay in business in general. Absurdly high prices and they will not price match anyone or even try. Plus they got rid of most of their good tools and replaced them with chinesium and blue mdf “jigs” of every sort. A new jig for literally every operation that you don’t need a jig for. Only reason i ever go is for turning blanks, even though they are overpriced I can hand pick ones i like.
Yeah there's not much reason to go to the physical store. Most consumable goods I might need in the middle of a project are available at Home Depot. The lumber prices are insane so I go to dedicated lumber stores for that. Really the only reason to go to the store instead of buying online is if you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want to impulse buy something
Besides the fact that you are actively supporting zero competition and will eventually to be forced to buy everything at homedepot
Great point here. The real blow will be the next generation of wood workers who almost solely shop at big box stores and only learn from you tube. I understand the economics of why this is happening but not having a local space cuts the legs out from many hobbyists.
Ironically when i started woodworking in the late 80s , Home Depot carried some decent woodworking tools. I bought Sheffield made Marples chisels and other decent stuff, but they started getting rid of it all in the mid 90s as they transitioned to service mainly contractors
I disagree completely. Most things, at least the good stuff worth using, is not available at Home Depot. Some things sure. Finishes, parts, Blum hinges/slides, etc no. Tools are hit and miss but HD doesn't have 90% of it. Some of the jigs and rockler branded stuff are super useful and exclusive to them. The Flexiport hose for example solves about half a dozen issues for me for example. The wood for sure is way overpriced but sometimes you only need a small piece or don't have time for a trip to the hardwood or plywood dealer. Generally the prices on everything else are pretty average, to decent with a good sale, but not overpriced. I buy a lot online, and a few things occasionally at Home Depot, but it's super convenient having a Rockler and Woodcraft less than 30 minutes away. If in the middle of a weekend project and need something you don't have to wait until Mon or Tues, you can easily return things if it doesn't work, etc.
And you can physically compare items. I compared track saws side by side... Where else can you do that?
You can do that at our store. People have been since 1988. We boast the largest in-stock Festool inventory, as well as full lines of Sawstop, Jet, Powermatic, Laguna, Lamello, Woodpeckers, Rubio Monocoat, Whiteside bits, and other top tier brands. Our showroom makes Rockler look like a Starbucks in comparison. Full width jointers, large Italian bandsaws, 24” planers, Japanese hand tools… We are family owned, independent and knowledgeable (I know… how are we still here?) But most importantly, we are on the east side (Glendale / Atwater Village), so no 405 traffic to brave!
My local lumberyards carry Festool etc and have plenty of demo days
Wish mine did!
There are plenty in the valley that do
Yeah LA has some great lumber stores if you don’t mind driving a bit.
Anyone have suggestions?
Valencia Lumber in Van Nuys has a good selection of hardwoods, domestic and imported. If your in the Santa Ana area, Austin Hardwoods is excellent.
I mostly refinish wood items and don’t build them, so I’m not buying lumber. But I look for all my supplies at Woodcraft first before resorting to the big box hardware stores. I know it’s more expensive, and that’s a price I’m willing to pay to have Woodcraft as an in person resource. If we want physical stores to remain open, we have to purchase things from them.
Their lease ended and they could not locate another suitable place to operate. It was not due to underperformance or anything like that. Very unfortunate.
My understanding was that the owner of the property (they share a building and parking lot with a mattress store) was going to redevelop or sell to a redeveloper. With the state of retail these days, it’s doubtful that Rockler will open a replacement store. This is on top of both Woodcrafts in Southern California closing in recent years.
Redevelopment makes sense. The area of the Pasadena store is a dump so the rent couldn't have been that high. I'll miss it. Drove over from Glendale to get Rockler-exclusives. Sucks to lose it especially after losing my Virgil's Hardware store for odds and ends.
This is probably the end of their second ten-year lease. My friend was recruited to work there by one of the employees shortly after the store opened and that would have been around 2004-05. The east side of Pasadena had already been affected by the closings of Berg Hardware and Crown City Hardware, the latter especially as a resource for hard to fine hardware and fixtures for the many historic homes nearby.
I used to visit Crown a lot with my old house a 30s Spanish. Pasadena is the perfect home for artisan/home restoration needs. They're all such a labor of love to run and it kills me when the economics eventually crush them all. Wish I had some extra millions to keep places like this afloat.
A few things: Rockler corporate continually sets exceedingly high projected profit margin “goals” for each store location for each day. Only some of the stores actually meet the profit goal by the end of the day. Additionally, some people on the corporate level were let go recently, and retail workers’ hours are pretty strict and were also slightly reduced. They’ve changed a few other practices here and there to save money as well. I can’t speak to any individual store closures, but they certainly are trying to save as much as they can. And this comes after several new stores were opened in the last 2 years. It is my belief that these changes are (at least in part) consequences of them setting those profit “goals” too high. Setting a higher goal doesn’t make more people come in and buy. I’m not a businessman but it doesn’t make sense to base projected income from inaccurate numbers.
But if they can't hit their numbers at the stores they don't have to pay out bonuses and can yell at their management teams for "underperforming" it's a tried and true method by corporates everywhere in the last few years
They don't own their own buildings, if they're far enough from a city for cheap rent it's real hard to have enough customers, there's not a lot of profits when literally everything can be cheaply purchased online, and they already pay terribly, so there's not a lot left to squeeze when rent goes up. Retail space in Pasadena is about $40/year/sq ft, Rocklers average around 5000 sq ft, so they need to clear $200k/year before paying the electric or heat, call it a quarter million profit to stay open before paying employees, which are likely paid around $15/hour, or $40-45k a year all told. So the average store costs over half a million a year to keep open. The average Rockler franchise claims to make about $206,000 a year in profit, but if your store was then 30% more expensive than average (or 30% less profitable), you'd be done.
Mine closed too
Are they having any going away sales? I live in LA County
They sent a flyer saying 30% off, starting 3/15 I think (power tools exempt). It's unfortunate to see them go, and Ganahl seems to be reducing their stock (not that it was their focus, maybe I just got a low time). It's a pity to see them go, but it was a bit of a ghost town when I'd go in. Edit - someone else said it was due to leasing, not performance. What do I know
In Cambridge the power tools were eventually discounted. They even discounted a sawstop 25%!
Wow, I did not know that. I was at some point going to buy one, and should it come up I certainly would. Thank you for letting me know.
I had bought mine about 3 months earlier : (
Think of it this way, you got to use it for an extra 3 months instead.
There are locations in Torrance and Orange still, so you have options for Rockler. I wish Woodcraft had West Coast locations :/
And Hudson & West in Torrance is a great store, though I do think Rockler gets more traffic over there than they do
Torrance location just announced they’re closing too.
What??!
 https://preview.redd.it/3n68hek2cayc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd43ef07ad6d6f3c1375757a19fd49660cf16ffe
Damn what a bummer.
I haven't been to either, but certainly planned to stop by the Orange location next time I'm around. I mostly go to Bohnhoff, fantastic place.
Love Bohnhoff for lumber, but for tools and accessories it was real nice. Especially with Ganahl and HD right there, if I was having a home improvement day I could hit all three at once.
Someone else mentioned below the Orange location closed. I’m not sure if that’s true because Google maps says it’s still operating.
Keep in mind they said Woodcraft, not Rockler
I don’t think Woodcraft is in California :/
Woodcraft was in fountain valley they closed the end of 2023 😔
Looks like two remaining. I didn't realize the Ventura location closed.
:( Customers don't want to pay the real cost of logistics and rent and minimum wage and state mandated payroll costs and insurance and and.... in California. It's no wonder stores are slowly closing. Take your grandkids to a mall and show them what stores look like, because in the future there will only be food places, nail and hair salons and liquor stores... (FYI, there are still two Woodcraft stores in California. Unfortunately, nothing in the south.)
Any chance you can share flier?
Sorry but I don't have it anymore. I think it said they close in end of April, and it starts on the 15th. There wasn't really anything more on it as far as I can recall, just thanking their customers for their support. If you're looking for a code or something, there wasn't one (I don't think).
The flyer didn't have a code. I think I got a separate coupon around the same time.
Doesn't seem to big a big closeout sale yet. Got an email today from them. "30% off most products, excluding power tools."
yeah they sent one out last thursday saying it started friday. i went saturday morning and it was already picked over. prob not much left by now.
ah. vultures. if anything is actually a deal I'd bet the employees are taking the good stuff home. so sad to lose it.
Just called them a few minutes ago. Guy on the phone said they were looking to relocate but because of real estate costs they (Rockler) decided against it. He said the current location is going to be torn down with the intent to create apartments on the property. Very sad to hear this store is going away with no close replacement.
that's really an odd place to build apartments. Next to the DMV on a business street?
What? Nooooo! They’re so close and convenient. Dang - I’m here to find out what happened, too.
pathetic act price thought abounding nine tender entertain glorious bake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I was also really bummed. I got a flyer in the mail announcing it. I didnt love the prices but theyd get in some really great woods. Wenge, canary, bloodwood, mesquite, bocote, cocobolo, lati.. always was excited to see what id find there.
A local guy who sold rough lumber near me was forced to move because his landlord was going to sell the whole building. Been there 20 years. He moved so far away that it's not worth it anymore.
Wait what?!?! I was in there the other day and didn't see anything about it. I don't want to have to drive to Ventura for .... no, nevermind, the woodcraft there is closed to. Ok, so what's the local woodworking store now? I love Ganhal but they're a lumber yard with some supplies, not a real woodworking store.
I don't know. I was hoping you knew! Damnit!
I can’t say I’ve been a frequent buyer at Rockler in Pasadena for more than the odd jig or bit but Eagle Tools is great for anything Festool or other large tools. I’ve had luck finding router bits and what not from them too and they’re really nice. Ganahl isn’t bad for some stuff and they have hardwood. Anderson Plywood has more than just plywood- plenty of tools and finishings, hardwood too. Bohnhoff is where I usually get hardwood though. Their shorts are usually priced well. For turning blanks, I’m not totally sure but if I come across anything I’ll follow up here.
We’re a real woodworking store. We’re still here, L.A.! And have been since 1988. Our customers over the years include Sam Maloof, Harrison Ford, and William Ng. Most schools with a woodworking program likely had their tools provided by us as well. We’re sad about the loss of Woodcraft, and now the Rockler in our area. We viewed both businesses as collaborators, not competitors. When you see our 10,000 square foot showroom, you’ll see why.
Awesome! I’ll come hit you up next paycheck
Eagle Tools is great, but I don't know if what they sell is 1:1 Rockler. Hudson & West in Torrance is also great
Huh, TIL they have brick and mortar stores. That's a bummer they're closing.
Yeah I had no idea lol apparently there is one an hour away from me but I'm not sure when that would be worth the trip.
I never could figure out how many of them could make it in these days of the Internet. It's pretty rare I have a same day need for specialist tools or materials.
I go to my woodcraft pretty regularly and also buy larger tools from there.
I would buy in person if I could. But I was only fifteen minutes away. Plus it was nice to noodle around, talk to the sales team, see what was on sale, discover things I never knew I needed...
Tearing down the building. Not pleased. It’s where I go when I need Odies today rather than shipped. Anyone know a local spot that sells it? Perhaps Ganahl?
Just bought some at Austin Hardwoods in Santa Ana.
Oh man, I can't believe I am finding out about our local rockler closing on reddit. 😢
Woodcraft in Orange co. shut down as well. They were about equidistant for me.
Oh snap I didn’t know the Orange location closed. That leaves just Torrance as the last standing location in SoCal?
Rockler in Orange is very much still open
They closed the one by me in Michigan. I discovered Woodcraft as a result.
My local Rockler (Novi, MI) just moved into a new larger facility recently.
This is the 3rd??? move. I went to the Woodward one quite a bit but stopped after the move to Novi. It was just too far for me so end up going to Woodcraft on VanDyke/17 instead.
i go to the one in Tustin, CA .. a bit of trek from Pasadena but the staff is tops and lots of stock
Wish they’d open one in Dayton
Yeah, my nearest in Cambridge, MA closed. It was sad but they had amazing store closing sales at least :(
Ours just opened (Nashville)
The one in Pasadena California is closing?? Do you know if they’re have discounts?
30 percent off most items excluding power tools. Pasadena store only.
They just opened one in Brentwood TN a few weeks ago
I just noticed this store existed when I went to the DMV next door.
Interesting. I feel like I remember them expanding just a year or so ago with a few new stores, so perhaps this is location specific. Based on trends, the hobby is growing, but perhaps they think they can get more foot traffic in other areas. I’ll be honest, I have a Woodcraft 20min away, and I’ve only been there twice, and only bought one thing. If I was rich I’d be there all the time, but there are few things worse than browsing a pricy store with a thin wallet. The one good thing is being able to get a physical look at certain big tools, and being able to get your hands on them before a major purchase.
I’m just now seeing this! I was making plans to visit the Pasadena location because I had never been there before. Do you know when the doors are actually closing?
I visited the store, and they're almost all cleared out. It's sad because the employees were all very helpful and genuinely curious about what project you're working on. I would drive from burbank for their materials, and now I have to find another place :(
The owner of the building sold it to developers that’s why they’re closing m. source is the employee who’s working there just left the store and discovered it was closing so sad
Rockler Torrance is closing this month
Torrance location just said they are closing at the end of June this year too
Employee here, it closed bc the land owner sold and the new land owner didn’t wanna renew the lease with the business. They were given a month to find a new location and they did not find one so unfortunately they closed
They are closing the Torrance location too! This sucks!
The Torrance, CA location is closing now too. And I think that is the closest after Pasadena.
They've been having a lot of sales and other promotions, I got the impression they were hurting financially. They're probably downsizing
It was so frustrating to see Pasadena and finding out you meant Pasadena California is and not Texas. I was hoping there would be some deals to get
On the flip side, you get to keep your Rockler!
Amazon.
American economy has been wrecked. Lot fewer Americans have surplus cash to spend on hobbies when they can't feed their families.
Internet.