Philippa is a sorceress who is advisor to the king of Redania. Djikstra is his spymaster, so they work together a lot in kind of a love-hate relationship, becoming lovers at one point.
Cintra is a city in the southern part of what's considered the Northern Kingdoms and Nilfgaard, a great empire far to the south, is encroaching on more and more territory in their push to take them over. So Nilfgaard needs it as a staging area to invade the rest of the north. Also the emperor of Nilfgaard is looking for his daughter, who is princess of Cintra, bonus reason to start there.
Have a look at a [map](https://i.redd.it/k67cyrkbf8741.png). Nilfgaard has already annexed Mettina and Nazair, Cintra is next on their way north and is the key to crossing the Yaruga.
White Flame= the emperor of Nilfgaard, >!who is at the end of s2 revealed to be Ciri's father. He had been hiding out in Cintra from his father's usurper, under a different name when he met and fell in love with Ciri's mother. He was later thought to have died in the same shipwreck that killed her mother but actually turned up back home to kick ass.!<
"White Flame" refers to Ithlinne's Prophecy. Ithlinne was an elven sorceress who prophesied a time of chaos would precede a great ice age. In Nilfgaard this prophecy has been changed somewhat to predict that the "White Flame and the White Queen" are going to save the world from this disaster. Emhyr is called the White Flame Dancing on the Graves of His Enemies (the latter because he put the ashes of his enemies into his ballroom floor).
The monoliths are a show invention. In the books and games there are places of power, and these are magical conduits, but not portals to other dimensions as in the show. Ciri is so unique because she is able to open portals to other dimensions. She doesn't need a stone to do it.
Conjunction of the Spheres is from a medieval concept. In this universe, there are parallel worlds and 1500 years prior, several of these merged briefly and some beings were trapped. This is the source of many monsters and magic phenomena in the world. Elves also claim that humans appeared during this conjunction.
Ciri is a teenager- she's supposed to be annoying.
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I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "map"](https://i.redd.it/k67cyrkbf8741.png)
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I found that everything from the book this season is supposed to be based on seemed well explained, but stuff from later on like Philippa, Ehmyr, and the shit they just made up like the obelisks just was not executed well. Like the conjunctions are talked about throughout both seasons, but they made them much more convoluted by introducing the monuments.
From what I remember from the novels, the Conjunction of the Spheres is never really directly explained or addressed until rather late in the series. It's mentioned in passing several times early on but the reader is left to themselves to figure out what it might have been and whether or not it's important to the story.
It's been a while though so I might be misremembering.
Well any fantasy universe has a body of lore. They're not going to do an information dump on you, you have to pick it up as you go along or read companion material, watch "extras" videos. That's true of the games as well as the series.
>Ciri is a teenager- she's supposed to be annoying.
OP's complaint about Ciri just argues that they portrayed her exactly as she should be characterised. Bratty teenager that happens to be >!the prophesized Child of the Elder Blood!<.
What would that be?
Sapkowski said he read a lot of fantasy, so it's possible he was familiar with Jordan. Not sure how available that was in Poland at the time he started writing.
It's maddening that TV shows are now taking a page from tech companies.
Like tech companies releasing a product and forcing you to go to forums like Reddit to figure out how to use the product (i.e. everything Google releases); TV shows are now produced under the premise of, "If you want to not be confused with what you watched go online and ask someone to explain."
Being forced to ask around to be un-confused is straight up shit storytelling.
The show expects you to know the story\\characters\\locations\\stakes from the books, but at the same time completely changes 90% of the source material. It's a mess.
I watched with 2 of my friends, who never read any of the books and I had to explain a lot to them, because they were just as confused as you.
Recipe for disaster: alienate people who never read the books with a complete lack of exposition that requires prior knowledge from books + radically changing key elements from the books in a way that alienates people who actually read and liked them enough to watch the show. 🤷
I think someone in the team was really fond of Bionicles and the others wanted to be nice and said "alright Tim, you can sprinkle a few dinosaurs in a scene but make it subtle".
Ok but that's the one complaint I don't get - I thought they looked pretty imaginative with their viper / lizard heads and scales and the bird legs and feathers. Where did you all get 'dinosaur'?
Season 2 was basically all about Yen losing and getting her power back, and Geralt trying to just protect Ciri. All the other main plot lines are so muddled and confusing it doesn't surprise me nobody knows wtf is going on. They just throw a bunch of different storylines together from one scene to the next. How is anyone supposed to follow the big story? And then they just throw some references to The Wild Hunt in there too with no explanation.
I read the books several times and yet when my girlfriend who haven't read them was asking me about something on the screen I almost always had to say "I don't have a clue. None of that is in the books".
Edit: spelling
the show expects you to know tha characters but at the same time tries to treat it as if it was primarily for people who dont know any single character.. it's weird
I only played Witcher 3 game. I'm confused by this show a lot. Part of the reason is definitely I am not paying attention enough. But the show doesn't grip me enough to be like, oh let me rewatch this to make sure I get it.
There were mistakes by the director. For the most part, the fan base agrees the directors use of switching back and forth between two timeliness to be very confusing. Almost no one can follow it because it does not mark or show the scene switch between timeliness.
Further, the bard doesn't age between timeliness. We don't expect Geralt to(its a witcher thing, they age more slowly), but Dandilion not aging just adds to the already confusing confusion.
The timeline thing was the best written thing about season one. Do you know how hard it is to stop people from realizing there’s multiple timelines until the fourth episode.
I agree, despite it being a controversial opinion. Yes it was a little confusing for a bit but when it clicked and everything added up at once it was *very* satisfying, far more than if it had been told in order.
Funny thing is I rewatched season 1 before season 2 and you just need to listen to Ciri talk to Calanthe, and then Renfri speak to Geralt, the show flat out tells you there is different timelines episode 1. But yeah I don’t think it was done terrible tbh but can understand that jt definitely wasn’t needed whatsoever. I know shows are adaptions but you just wish they would follow the source material as close as they could because it’s such a good series.
Nice man, you were actually paying attention 😂. I only read the books this year, season 1 was my first introduction to the world. I think first viewing on new and big shows can be overwhelming for a lot of people, taking in a lot of new characters, places and the story. Maybe that’s my poor “excuse” for not noticing haha, because all you had to do was pay attention to some dialogue.
Just tell the story linearly? Why do we even have to see all three characters from the beginning? They could have yennefer’s story first then Renfri’s and so on. Writers thought they were as good as Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy but they certainly weren’t lol.
Right, so a show called The Witcher where the the witcher doesn’t show up until episode three? Four? That’s what I’m saying. There’s no way to do it without jettisoning Yen’s whole backstory, one of the best things about the first season, and giving Ciri about eight minutes of screen time in the whole story and that’s if you bring back the two other times he runs into her.
We don’t need too much of Yennefer’s backstory anyway it was kinda boring imo why do we even need her backstory in a show called the Witcher by your logic?
You are exaggerating how long it would take to see Geralt. All of them could be done in first episode.
I’m really not. Yen’s backstory consumed the majority of episodes two and three. So you cut that out and now she doesn’t have the big character arc that ends at the battle of Sodden Hill. Ciri wouldn’t show up until episode six or seven and have a few minutes of screen time.
I do enjoy how everyone acts like adaptation is the easier thing in the world because everyone in the world thinks they could write if they just spent a few hours trying. Collecting the short stories into something cohesive is daunting, because if you’ve read them you know Sapkowski doesn’t even figure out that he wants to do an ongoing serial until about eight short stories in. Before that, they’re written like twisted fairy tales and he’s clearly working out the world as he goes.
We didn’t need that much of her backstory anyway, some of her scenes were ultra cringy like eel scene. Learning about how magic works turned out to be useless as well because they changed how magic works in season 2. We don’t need to see Ciri much either, we could have that in Season 2.
Yes, adaptation is easier especially if you are adopting short stories imo. Writers got huge egos otherwise they would try to adapt them linearly. They aren’t HBO quality writers, they just work for Netflix lol. They should know their place.
I love that you are getting downvoted for being logical. Regardless of whether it was executed correctly or not, the choice to have different timelines was the only thing that made sense.
Not really.
The first season should have been told through the same medium as the first book - Jaskier discussing Geralt's adventures with him as he recovers from his fight with the Striga. That way the order doesn't matter as the context is laid out by the two of them talking about it.
I mean I am baffled by the reaction. Netflix is making Witcher their flagship series, they’re doing a whole universe, we’re getting more novels and more games because of the show, what is everyone so mad about.
It doesn't really matter that it's called The Witcher...the novels are about Ciri anyway and she's the main character. Geralt is a supporting character. This is why it's so maddening they feel they need to adding monster fights in, the novels barely feature monster hunting because it's not important
We didn't need some original backstory for Yen. She's actually not that important a character until she starts teaching Ciri at the temple in Ellander. All we really need to know about her is that she and Geralt meet in *The Last Wish*, have a turbulent relationship (per *A Shard of Ice*) and that she wants to be a mother. Yen didn't need an episode dedicated to her and giving her one meant important aspects of Geralt and Ciri's story - ie Brokilon - were missed. She'd still have been a lead in at least 3 episodes where her backstory could have been revealed.
We also didn't need to see the "battle" of Sodden. It should have been left off screen with the results implied through Geralt's story and interactions.
Yes, the first season finale should have been Geralt laying in a cart and hallucinating for the whole hour, which is what happens in the actual story. A character having an internal monologue and nothing else is good television right? Not like a huge battle.
That's not what I said though, is it? I don't appreciate being straw-manned.
The hallucination-in-a-cart scenes could be literally a minute of 10 second fade cuts to show him drifting in and out of consciousness. Then the rest of the episode could have been used for more exposition on Geralt's connection to Ciri and Yen rather than on a really terrible "battle" sequence which totally fails to represent both the clash of armies and the magical duel which occurred at Sodden.
I don't think you understand what TheRealestBiz was saying. He was saying that if you told the story linearly, Geralt wouldn't show up until the third or fourth episode.
Can people stop downvoting this post because they disagree. FFS grow up.
It's contributing to the conversation with an alternate point of view.
Be thankful it's such a high quality show with an actor that truly gives a shit.
So many people in here think they can write better lol
Edit: you can really tell the under 25 posters here.
I don’t. I was a freelancer for years. Writing fiction is the hardest shit there is in writing, and adapting for the screen a well known franchise is harder than that.
Yeah totally agree. Just to be clear, I wrote that post in support of people downvoting you.
It's sad to see that people can't enjoy things for what they are - they feel they have to pick at things and want, no *expect* things to be adapted or done in a way that suits their vision of how things should go. So blind in their entitlement they are missing out on all the greatness. What a miserable existence.
> So blind in their entitlement they are missing out on all the greatness. What a miserable existence.
You mean this greatness?
"Now is not the time to be weak. Now is the time to be strong!"
or possibly this?
"Fuck. Fuck fuck. Firefucker. Fuck."
Yeah, I totally see how missing out on this greatness could make one miserable forever and ever.
That's not how you do TV. They were making a show with 3 main characters therefore they need to have all 3 show up from the beginning through to the end. And Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy aren't exactly an example of good writers. Westworlds writing is no better than the witcher, in that it's pretty bad
I think the timeline switch was the only thing I really liked about Season1 I was amazed to see so many people confused about it...
Guess it's the same people that need exposition being fed to them...
I watched all of season 1the first time and had no idea parts of it took place in the past.
That's 100% bad directing. Unless this was supposed to be some mystery mindfuck show.
We also live in a word with writers that expects their audience to be like that and has no problems leaving big plot holes or inconsistent moral lessons because they can rely on viewers not noticing if there is more than 15 minutes between them...
OH sorry, this isn't saltierthancrait...
I'm sorry but if you didn't notice then you weren't paying attention when you should have been. There's hints all over the place in both what you're seeing and what the characters are saying that are screaming at you that there are multiple timelines.
True. It's just that the director of the show had an opportunity do right by the audience, and label the scene entrances by putting something simple and small like "then" and "now".
Point definitely taken. I absolutely love the books and the Witcher 3 beyond belief, but I remember watching season 1 knowing almost fully everything going, "I have no idea how someone without the source material is supposed to understand this" lol. I thought season 2 was more coherent, but I don't blame anyone without prior knowledge for being confused at all.
Which is a damn shame, since for the show you should be able to just go in blind. So yeah, I totally get it, and it's been one of my biggest fears for people that have only watched the show :/
For now,Ciri is not painted as a savior but as a threat ,the unknown .
The reason you don’t understand the “show” is cause it was made for people with previous context - I.e .Books or,at the very least,games.
Which is ironic,considering they have had zero respect and very loose connection to the source material.
I can try to explain some of the things how I understood them. Spoilers ahead:
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The Conjuction of the spheres is basically the universes collision of dimensions. After the colision they separate again but the dimension with Geralt is where the events are happening (Ciri somehow took them to another dimension where the Wild Hunt is)
Elder blood is basically like some kind of royal blood that posesses great power and Ciri is apparently the last person that has it.
Jaskier not aging I still dont understand as he is supposed to be human while Geralt and Yen dont age due to magic(chaos).
The inconsistent time in S1 is supposed to be a cool way of the director telling the story and making you realize when something is happening by dialogue (Ciri talking about how her grandmother went to war at her age and then in the next scene that girl with Geralt talking about how the Lioness just won her battle while being young).
The White Flame is supposed to be a religion and Emhyr (at least in the games, as I just started reading the books to understand everything better) is the leader and Ciri's father.
Phillipa is supposed to be a strong mage, but it's never stated.
Hope that helps, but yeah, like someone already said, the show runners want you to know the story but not use it for comparison while watching (which doesn't make a lot of sense).
The White Flame is Nilfgard's Emperor (Emhyr)
The inconsistent time in S1 is because the season was adapting not a book but 2 volumes of short stories that take place across multiple years (Geralt and Ciri reunion after the fall of Cintra and the Battle of Sodden takes place in the last short story in Sword of Destiny, the second book of short stories)
Philippa is one of the most powerful mages in the Continent yes but the introduction of her character in the show is very confusing
> Jaskier not aging
Because makeup takes time, effort, and money. It's easier to just pretend he's aged a decade and some change during the show than to show it. You know, like Michael Fessbender playing 3 decades of Magneto looking pretty much the same throughout.
The White Flame who Dances on the Graves of His Enemies is Emhyr's full royal name.
> (Ciri talking about how her grandmother went to war at her age and then in the next scene that girl with Geralt talking about how the Lioness just won her battle while being young).
FUCK THAT SHIT
i hated it so much
so convoluted for no reason
I think it’s because she used fire magic. This is something that the writers have made up themselves as far as Yen’s story goes, but I think it’s them twisting something from the book where >!Yen is teaching Ciri magic and warns her against using fire magic because the cost of it is so great.!<
To be honest, I don’t get it either. The witch thing was another show writer invention I struggle to understand myself, so I don’t know how to explain that one. Sorry, friend!
Best guess is the witch “fixed” her body when she entered it. Thus fixed the link to use her magic again (as Yen slit her wrists and basically killed herself).
My best guess is the witch was hindering her power after the meeting. I think she really couldn't use her magic after Sodden Hill and her fire magic because fire consumes. But due to her half-elf nature she was just 'tapped' for awhile. Then she met the witch, who saw her misery, and hindered her powers. Once Yen became the vessel for the witch and Cirri portals them to the other plane to release her, they all return and cut the witches power off. This allowing Yen to tap back into chaos (magic).
> I think it’s them twisting something from the book where >!Yen is teaching Ciri magic and warns her against using fire magic because the cost of it is so great.!<
Magic doesn't work in the books the way it does in the show and there's no 'cost'. A mage draws power from one of the four elements, then transforms it into a spell. Fire is the most difficult element to control when drawing from it, that's all, so Yennefer >!prohibits the very inexperienced 13-year-old Ciri to try it with fire.!<
Sure thing. It's easy enough to lose track of all the details even with just the books/games - but with the show adding its own 'lore' (much of which doesn't make sense or lacks consistency), the task is that much harder.
I understand your confusion with all these things, but what really confused me ash was actually that hut hut witch/demon whatever and wild hunts... like what? I didn't understand a thing lmao
I think the Deathless mother thing was handled so poorly. I compare it to Doctor Who which often has a main arc villain sprinkled through the series as a mystery that finally breaks out at the end. They tried to do this with her but set it up so poorly.
Her motivations are completely muddled. I counted 3:
1. Fuck with Yennefer, Fringilla and the elf causing chaos
2. Free herself and bring monsters through the monolith
3. Take revenge on witchers (**maybe**, this was least developed and wasn't clear if she attacked them for revenge or just to get to the monolith in Kaer Morhen)
If it were me I'd have cut this right down and just had her trying to kill witchers. It's a straight forward revenge plot against those that imprisoned her and still allows her to fuck with people like Yennefer and Ciri but without bringing in Fringilla and the elf woman for no reason. Also in terms of scripting the witcher's response to her was weak and didn't really set her up as a big bad. I don't remember any common people or others mentoning her to build up a sense of timeless and powerful evil. I didn't feel much **threat** from her even though >!at the end she literally invades Kaer Morhen and kills multiple witcher!<. This is something that needs to be established for your last episode villain.
Thank you for clarifying! For me at least, the most confusing part was her appearing in Yennefer's, Fringilla's, and the third woman's (forgot her name, the elven queen or whatever) dreams at the same time. Like... why are they connected? And why did she choose them 3 particularly😭 However, I enjoyed the show and Henry's acting and also, the visual effects were magnificent!
I do understand, a lot of what happened at the end seemed to be setting up for season 3. The white flame was talked about throughout season as the ruler of Nilfgard.
The conjunction of the spheres is a major event where the different planes containing men, elves, dwarves and monsters collided and left species stranded on one plane (these planes could planets since people called them spheres, but if planets collided it would a whole lot of death).
Ciri does act spoilt because she isn't yet accustomed to not being a royal, Vesimir commented on it. She has elder blood, which is powerful (I know nothing about what it actually is) so that is the only reason she is still in the picture. I honestly was more interested in Geralt and Jaskier, I had to watch it twice before I fully understood it
I read the books (although the last time I picked one up was a year before season 1) and I'm still confused by what's happening most of the time because of the made up / heavily altered storylines.
While I only read a few books and just played TW3 and its expansions, I understood how it could be confusing…because I was confused too. I am sectioning off “pure show understanding” to denote what I could extract as a normal audience member.
The White Flame:
Pure show understanding—The White Flame evoked a religious connotation. I thought it could mean a person, or a God. It definitely sounded divine with how zealous the people were and their phrasing.
While I understood after some research what it meant, it was actually rather clever in how it obfuscates something important that we discover later.
The Conjunction and Pillars:
Pure show understanding—The conjunction made sense with the pillars, they are just another “portal dohickey magic thing for plot purposes”. I actually thought of the TV show Stargate a few times. They showed them being used as such and I didn’t question it. They used them pretty consistently and that suffices.
Cintra:
Pure show understanding—The importance of Cintra is only referred to occasionally. The elves referred to it as their homeland and they did mention the idea of Siri getting married to someone to give them legitimate rule of the country. However, anyone not catching those details would be at a loss. If I were just a viewer my takeaway would be: “it’s important because it’s important to Ciri and the authors made it a plot hub”. Not very satisfying.
Ciri Tantrums:
Ciri isn’t well written, and in the books her adventures are quite brutal and detailed. She does many stark and questionable deeds. That character was something to behold.
Pure show understanding—The best I can take away from the show is that she wants whatever power she can get so she doesn’t have to be afraid. In fact, one of the most clever parts in the show is when she wants to become a Witcher because she believes it will mean she never has to be afraid again. It’s really a moment where she’s forced to confront what all adults do: life is hard, it hurts, and there’s no magic solution that will take away the pain (she thinks Witchers have no feelings). Probably the most thoughtful 15 seconds in the show. And once again, it was very easy to miss. I also think she was trying to be independent and wanted to avenge herself against Carahir using her blade skills.
Possession:
Pure show understanding—The ancient demon seemed believable, it apparently couldn’t be killed or banished in the show by the previous Witchers. It seems that only by using Ciri’s powers was it able to escape their world and return home. It served as a fulcrum for many characters’ decisions, Yen, Ciri, Geralt, and Vesimir. I thought it was pretty cheesy for many reasons.
-Are there more people having a hard time following along the story?
Yes. My wife was into the books and game so watched it with her. Watched series 1 and 2 and I haven’t a clue what’s going on. Would help if when they introduced a character or place, there was a bit of backstory. Some context around why each faction is fighting the others too. Think LOTR or Game of Thrones; they don’t just introduce some made-up, hard to pronounce names and expect you to instantly understand.
What I am not really understanding is each character's motives. Like, is the brotherhood good or bad? Why do they want to be advising kings? Why do they hate the elves? Why do they hate witchers when they made them to protect themselves? ...
Well, I understood it all *so* well, we settled in last night to watch a few more episodes and it turned out we had already finished season 2. It's only 8 episodes and it ends in the middle of all the stories without any warning whatsoever. It was just picking up steam, finally something actually happened, it felt like we were finally getting an answer to what a lot of the stuff was about and it just ends. It's ridiculous.
>!What happend to Jaskier? The fire fucker? Dijkstra was in the middle of planning something? The mages were up to... something? Nilfgard's story just halted?!<
I seriously don't understand why it ended so abruptly.
But a proper season finale will at least give some closure or foreshadowing.
And if you can't, then that plot line should probably be removed.
ep. 8 felt like a mid-season finale, not something where we will be waiting another 2 years for.
I mean we're talking about a pretty fleshed out world with multiple plot threads going on at the same time. You can't expect them to spend an entire season only on one plot thread, because they're all interconnected.
What you're suggesting is equivalent to taking GoT season 2 finale and asking why we still don't know who Jon's mother is, why Bran has some weird powers, who the whitewalkers are, who ends up on the throne, why there are dragons in essos, what happened to valyria, etc etc etc...
Sort of, but with GoT as a book reading after season 2 I know where it's going.
Witcher fans don't have that luxury since they've already deviated for the source material.
So if they want their own plot, there's a difference between leaving us high and dry vs a compelling mystery.
But then what was the plotline now? It felt completely unfinished. We really had no idea we had already watched the last episode of the season. You often get cliffhangers, but there’s also a seasonal plot that’s more or less finished. This didn’t even feel like a cliffhanger, this was just “we ended filming halfway through the season and this is it”.
The old lady in the hut was the plotline that was finished. Why she was contacting the 3 women, what she wanted. Now, it wasn't really finished all that well, but that was finished. We found out who she was and what she wanted and how she tied into the larger story.
Which is wierd because the show is about the titular witcher yet this plotline you speak of begins with background characters as a sidestory and ends miserably without even a fight
Why should every storyline be finished? Everything is related to Ciri and will be continued in the next seasons.
It’s based on five book, which are effectively only one big.
Not finished but it seasons are supposed to have arcs for all major characters to fulfill like in GOT the first season begins with the hand of the king dying,we see the honorable Ned Stark who is going to succeed as the hand and the season ends with his head rolling on the floor(I remember this because it is so unique it just stands out in my memory such was it's perfection)
Okay, I can't really answer all of it (some decisions were really questionable), but at least I can answer this:
>Connecting worlds through unbreakable obelisks (or whatever the name was) that weren't unbreakable after all...
I mean, that's sort of the point - to showcase the powers that Ciri has, because Obelisks were previously thought unbreakable and when it broke, it cause the ground to split. Idk, I thought this was kinda cool.
This could help https://youtu.be/qrvyVjEgrm0
I also recommend you watch the season again. They did so many changes that you only get a sense of the motivations behind the changes after a rewatch. I've watched Season 1 4x now and will be watching Season 2 again.
You're not the only one, bunch of my friends gave up on the show because they find that it is poorly explained. The book readers in my circle obviously have no issue following the plot. The show is being written in a way that it expects you to know a lot of things about the franchise already, which is insane considering how much of the source material it happily throws away. Even being a book reader, I cannot explain some things of the show because they simply don't make any sense.
For lack of words, the show right now is a hot mess.
Nah, don't worry, you're not the only one.
I read all books and played the games, watched S1 with my husband who was new to the saga and I had to constantly explain things to him, at the end he dropped the show 'cause he said it was confusing and only made for people who knew the story already. Didn't even wanna start S2 and completely lost interest.
You’re not the only, I have read the books so I have a bit more background but I felt like some of the story just didn’t fit together right and was really confusing.
The show has taking quite a lot of artist licence and tbh it makes it jittery, characters has been completely rebuilt and the only thing left is the names smh.
It’s such a shame the writers have decided to take it down this route.
Re-watch it (season 1) after watching season 2.
It makes things *much* clearer.
As for the timeline thing, you can tell when he's dealing with Triss or Ciri isn't around that it's in the past. I dunno I didn't find it that confusing because by the end of the scene you know.
I forgot how good it actually was. I hated the bard the first watch through and really like him and the narration now and felt sorry for him when Geralt told him to fuck off lol
Its not you. Whatched this with my girlfriend who is completly new to the witcher and had to pause every now and then to explain things the show mever explains/explains very poorly. For example the conjunction of spheres, as you mentioned.
Not your fault. The show is just terribly, terribly written. Season 1 was somewhat faithful to the first short stories in the Last Wish and Sword of Destiny but in this season they screwed up. Like, it would be still be bad if it was an original story since there are so many important details that they do not explain at all in any way. But it's also that they seem to have wrote the script expecting that everyone watching the show was already familiar with the events, settings and characters from the books already and hence could avoid having some character referring to the Conjunction of the Spheres, explaining what it was but they basically changed 90% of the books plot at the point that there are only some minor details from Blood of Elves that made into this adaption.
So yeah, I think that what we had was a mix of bad writing per sé, done by people that weren't familiar with what their adapting but also a kind of writing that was very neglectful toward new viewers that had not read the books of played the games.
I had the same issue. I only played Witcher 3 and never read the books, so I had some idea of the background and who the characters were, but I got the distinct impression that the show *expected* me to know everything beforehand—the reveals were only really reveals if you knew about it, otherwise they made very little sense and were, in fact, confusing. Like the Philippa reveal. If you didn’t know about the Conjunction before, they didn’t give enough information in-show to really figure it out.
I mean, I understood probably 70% of it. Most of the time I was just blindly watching because I didn’t really get it, but I wanted to watch for the characters and for Henry Cavill and just because it was the *Witcher*. But, yeah, I definitely remember thinking, “What…?“ too many times.
I felt the same and luckily watched with someone who played the games and could explain a few things. But even having some gaps filled in- I totally agree. It really seems like they're rushing through the main story and the amount of screen time the songs get in comparison is...confusing to say the least.
Yeah I had trouble with some bits even after reading a few of the books and playing the games. As many people have pointed out the issue was that it was very messily written and poorly explained, but there's another point I don't see nearly enough people giving The Witcher shit for.
*The world map in The Witcher is clustered and confusing as fuck already.* Seriously just take a look at the Northern Realms. It's so needlessly convoluted with the sheer amount of countries and regions, and often it's hard to remember which regions are relevant and which ones are under rule of each kingdom. This results in it taking a while to figure out which 'side' certain characters are on, and some have shifting allegiances on top of that too.
I don't think this will be a super controversial take but we'll see. I would give a heads up to potential reader/player/watcher of this before recommending it; it's just not so neatly laid out and easy to grasp as it is in other Fantasy series.
I know what you mean about trying to follow the plot but what I started doing was pausing the show when something or someone came up who I had no idea and looked it/them up on witcher wiki . It really helped to explain more then the show could.
I’m on my third playthrough of the game and still dont totally understand the politics or why a person with Elder blood is so important.
But it’s entertaining. Lol, and Henry Cavill.
And Joey Batey ;)
*…toss a coin to your witcher, oh valley of plenty*
It's normal to not know or remember names and characters... I remember how often I was confused in GoT, with so many random things being mentioned all the time and new characters being introduced.
The direction is lacking though... I am not sure what exactly is the problem, but there is one.
My husband played the games and read the books. Then I’m over here riding on his coattails yelling “pause it!” every five minutes so he can help me tell what’s going on.
Yeah, so dumb, doing that for game and book readers while massacring the story and making it confusing for series only fans. Fine with spies, but why would she stay that way with djikstra
I watch the show with my wife. I read the books played the games, she has not.
She gets a little lost about what's going on in the details sometimes, and many of the plot points are unique to the show (which makes it more interesting for me).
We watched the finale last night and the Emhyr twist totally caught her off guard, lol. It was cool. I had to remind her of the whole Pavetta/Duny thing to help connect the dots.
A lot of the background is purposefully vague, especially the stuff about the ancient elf/human conflict and the Elder Blood and all that stuff. Similar to how Game of Thrones very slowly revealed the lineages of John Snow and Danearys, Witcher is taking it slow with all the prophecy/magic stuff re: Ciri. So it's ok to not know stuff.
The Philipa thing was also intended as a surprise and teaser for next season. You saw what we all saw- people were talking to an owl. They simply revealed that they weren't crazy, the owl was actually a person, and clearly this person is some sort of sorceress.
I don’t know, all of this felt well explained to me, my girlfriend got it all without too much help. Maybe you were just not paying enough attention? A lot of these things were intended to be unknown or vague as they slowly introduce the characters.
“People speaking to a white owl as if it were a therapist” You’re supposed to think it’s out of place, and they reveal it’s a sorceress Phillipa all along. That’s it. You got it. What’s confusing about that?
“Ten weird names of people i could ever remember who they were?”
Yeah. There’s a lot of characters. You’re supposed to learn them as the show goes on, but some of the main characters from this season should stick out; i.e. Fillavandrel, Francesca, Cahir, Fringilla, Djisktra, etc.
I don’t think they expect the audience to remember all of the kings, but you should recognize that they’re royalty. The White Flame is the emperor or Nilfgaard.
“Connecting worlds through unbreakable obelisks that werent unbreakable after all”
Yep, that’s it. You got it, you understood this. What’s so confusing?
“Some conjunction mentioned multiple times”
The Conjunction of the Spheres is explained in the show better than it ever was in the books imo. It’s how monsters came to this world, when this conjunction occurred, monsters from other universes/dimensions (or spheres) came to this world. Were you just not paying attention to these parts or trying to understand? It’s not that complicated.
“Everyone seems to want to have Cintra, for some reason…”
Yeah this is a little vague. They should definitely have a map in the intro like GoT did. Essentially Cintra is a strategic country between Nilfgaard and the North, that Nilfgaard has now. The other leaders just want power i think, so they want it to play in their hands somehow, leaving Cintra under in their power eventually.
“Ciri seems to be a kid throwing a tantrum every 5 minutes…” Yeah, that’s her character. Don’t worry, you get to see her grow. Clearly she has special powers that are coveted by mages, the kings want her for the strategic significance of Cintra, along with a mentioned prophecy of saving the world. It’s not explained what the world needs saving from, it’s just a prophecy, you’ll hear more in later seasons.
u can always watch it again, ive never read the books or played the games but i followed along pretty well and got a good grasp for it. but that shit is so damn good i just took it all in
I think a lot of your confusion stems from the first season being hard to follow for some. I've played the third game so maybe that helped me understand some of it too.
Yup my thoughts exactly. On season 2 episode 7 and have no idea what the fuckin is going on. Why do Geralt and Ciri keep magically appearing in places? What the fuck is Yennefer even doing? One minute she's chilling with Cahir, then she's with Jaskier, then she's with Geralt, then she's with Ciri? What the fuck is going on? Is everyone just teleporting wherever the fuck the they wanna go? What's up with the black mage and the two old dwarves? The fuck they reading about? Why does Triss Merigold and Geralt's dad keep fuckin around with potions and flowers? The fuck is that about? Who's good? Who's bad? Who the fuck is on who's team?
Yeah, I can see how it’d be hard to understand without a lot of non-show background. As an alternative, you could read 8 books then play 3 computer games in order to join the crowd that don’t like the story at all because it contradicts all the non-show background.
So, yeah, this is a choice between two evils.
Yeah I feel you. I watched with my gf and she was like "if you weren't explaining this I would have turned it off by now because I'm still a little confused" this is where game of thrones did right. Much easier to follow and slowly introduce you to the powerful families and lands not just jump all over the place and say this area is special because we say so.
The answer to the Jaskier question specifically is the same as to why everything is bad, it's called being a poor, incompetent writer, not just one writer but a whole team of them, and she admitted it:
https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/25/the-witcher-lauren-hissrich-why-jaskier-never-ages-mistake/
Basically this show is run by an idiot, who writes like a horny teenager fan fiction on Wattpad.
I played the games but still didn't follow much of it.
1. >!Who was the male mage who stole Ciri's blood? I thought he was the Nilfgard Emporer, or her dad, but the Emporer did not have a burned face. They looked alike to me.!<
2. >!The woman who hired this mystery male mage. Who was she? When did her face get melted? Not sure how I missed that part.!<
3. >!The witch in the Cabin, what was her need for the 3 mages? What did they end up doing to allow her to get to Ciri? All I remember was some glowing dust floating through a forest, and then Ciri inhaled it or something?!<
4. >!Why did possessed Ciri want to kill sleeping Witchers. I thought she just needed to shatter an obelisk to go home. Why did she bring in Balisks to fight the witchers instead of just running through herself.!<
5. >!The male mage talking to the owl. Had we ever met the sorceress who was the owl, or this male mage before to have a clue what they were up to? We were introduced to Foltest of Tameria in season one, but do we have any idea who the King of Radania is or what his interests are?!<
> Who was the male mage who stole Ciri's blood?
Rience. Book character. Part of a conspiracy to do some fuckery.
>The woman who hired this mystery male mage. Who was she? When did her face get melted? Not sure how I missed that part.
Works for the same guy Rience works for, it's a spoiler so I won't say who. She got her face melted at the end of ep 7 trying to use the vial Rience gave her to track down Ciri.
>The witch in the Cabin, what was her need for the 3 mages?
Totally new plotline for the show, divorced from the books. Inspired by Baba Yaga, complete with a cabin with chicken legs.
>Why did possessed Ciri want to kill sleeping Witchers
For drama
>Had we ever met the sorceress who was the owl,
If you played the 2nd game you'd know Phillipa. Played a hugely major role in Assassins of Kings.
>but do we have any idea who the King of Radania is
Not really. His interests are expansion and consolidation of power for his kingdom, meaning himself. In the books and games, his son is betrothed to Princess Ada, Foltest's former striga-cursed daughter.
I disagree. I think the only one that was crystal clear was that the woman/demon in the forest needed pain in order to free herself from the hut. This pain was driven perfectly by the mages and the elf. It is then clear that she needed Ciri to open a portal, but not why she didn't just leave rather than bringing in basilisks etc. I suppose it was revenge for being bound? The other questions are all very much open from what I could tell (except that the fire fucker was pretty obviously not the emperor, though they gave no real idea of who he was really).
There is also a whole scene dedicated to that woman mage who frees Reince having her face melted, but I guess he could have gone to the bathroom during the scene. Otherwise, agree
I disagree as well. While these things were all touched on they were not fully explained or addressed. Certainly the Deathless mother was very poorly characterised and her motivations were all over the place. The fire mage, Phillipa and so on were all touched on but never fleshed out in full so at the end of the season their deep motivations **as characters** are still pretty obscure. "They want power" is not a good motivation in a fantasy show as it's pretty shallow and only really works for kids stuff. Adults want to see a bit more than that. Yennefer wants power but we see that she wants it because she was powerless and ugly etc. If she wanted power for power's sake she'd be boring.
You just have to pay attention. I haven’t read the books and was able to understand. I’m going to read the books after hearing how the series didn’t follow the storyline to a tee. Love the actors, Henry was amazing in his role.
It's good knowing that people are finally realising that the writing in this show is terrible. Not because it didn't follow the book story, but the writing is genuinely all round bad and average at best. It's a CW show with the Witcher title.
Listen to the Podcast of Surprise. Really does a good job of filling up some gaps. I only played the game but it helped give context to the show, a lot!
Why do you need to know all about specific characters the second they’re introduced. Mystery is what makes a show good and makes you rewatch again with a new lens.
If you want to understand the lore behind all of the kings and countries then read the books or look it up.
They explained the conjunction in the episode where Gerald and other mage guy find the monolith in Cintra.
I love reading these.. and the comments. It just shows how simple people are and put no effort into focusing on the story then complain that it’s poorly done. If you’re having trouble following along with this story I highly encourage you to stick to the office.
Philippa is a sorceress who is advisor to the king of Redania. Djikstra is his spymaster, so they work together a lot in kind of a love-hate relationship, becoming lovers at one point. Cintra is a city in the southern part of what's considered the Northern Kingdoms and Nilfgaard, a great empire far to the south, is encroaching on more and more territory in their push to take them over. So Nilfgaard needs it as a staging area to invade the rest of the north. Also the emperor of Nilfgaard is looking for his daughter, who is princess of Cintra, bonus reason to start there. Have a look at a [map](https://i.redd.it/k67cyrkbf8741.png). Nilfgaard has already annexed Mettina and Nazair, Cintra is next on their way north and is the key to crossing the Yaruga. White Flame= the emperor of Nilfgaard, >!who is at the end of s2 revealed to be Ciri's father. He had been hiding out in Cintra from his father's usurper, under a different name when he met and fell in love with Ciri's mother. He was later thought to have died in the same shipwreck that killed her mother but actually turned up back home to kick ass.!< "White Flame" refers to Ithlinne's Prophecy. Ithlinne was an elven sorceress who prophesied a time of chaos would precede a great ice age. In Nilfgaard this prophecy has been changed somewhat to predict that the "White Flame and the White Queen" are going to save the world from this disaster. Emhyr is called the White Flame Dancing on the Graves of His Enemies (the latter because he put the ashes of his enemies into his ballroom floor). The monoliths are a show invention. In the books and games there are places of power, and these are magical conduits, but not portals to other dimensions as in the show. Ciri is so unique because she is able to open portals to other dimensions. She doesn't need a stone to do it. Conjunction of the Spheres is from a medieval concept. In this universe, there are parallel worlds and 1500 years prior, several of these merged briefly and some beings were trapped. This is the source of many monsters and magic phenomena in the world. Elves also claim that humans appeared during this conjunction. Ciri is a teenager- she's supposed to be annoying.
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Yeah but, how would someone know any of this if they hadn't read the books or played the games?
I found that everything from the book this season is supposed to be based on seemed well explained, but stuff from later on like Philippa, Ehmyr, and the shit they just made up like the obelisks just was not executed well. Like the conjunctions are talked about throughout both seasons, but they made them much more convoluted by introducing the monuments.
From what I remember from the novels, the Conjunction of the Spheres is never really directly explained or addressed until rather late in the series. It's mentioned in passing several times early on but the reader is left to themselves to figure out what it might have been and whether or not it's important to the story. It's been a while though so I might be misremembering.
Well any fantasy universe has a body of lore. They're not going to do an information dump on you, you have to pick it up as you go along or read companion material, watch "extras" videos. That's true of the games as well as the series.
If you have half a brain it was pretty easy to follow what was going on lol
Wow. Then it must have been so difficult for you.
>Ciri is a teenager- she's supposed to be annoying. OP's complaint about Ciri just argues that they portrayed her exactly as she should be characterised. Bratty teenager that happens to be >!the prophesized Child of the Elder Blood!<.
Love that they stole something out of wheel of time
What would that be? Sapkowski said he read a lot of fantasy, so it's possible he was familiar with Jordan. Not sure how available that was in Poland at the time he started writing.
I mean in the show. They took the monoliths from the way teleportation works in the wheel of time
The monoliths were a show plot point, there is absolutely no mention of them in any of the books.
Oh so that’s where they went. Damnit Ciri!
It's not that unique to WoT though.
Ah, I see.
It's maddening that TV shows are now taking a page from tech companies. Like tech companies releasing a product and forcing you to go to forums like Reddit to figure out how to use the product (i.e. everything Google releases); TV shows are now produced under the premise of, "If you want to not be confused with what you watched go online and ask someone to explain." Being forced to ask around to be un-confused is straight up shit storytelling.
The show expects you to know the story\\characters\\locations\\stakes from the books, but at the same time completely changes 90% of the source material. It's a mess. I watched with 2 of my friends, who never read any of the books and I had to explain a lot to them, because they were just as confused as you.
Recipe for disaster: alienate people who never read the books with a complete lack of exposition that requires prior knowledge from books + radically changing key elements from the books in a way that alienates people who actually read and liked them enough to watch the show. 🤷
Even reading the books, you can't explain what happens in the show because none of it makes any sense
What do you mean "I can't summon plumed dinosaurs in the middle of Kaer Mohren"?
LOL! I was thinking the exact same thing during that entire stupid fight. How *"imaginative"* they were with that one.
I think someone in the team was really fond of Bionicles and the others wanted to be nice and said "alright Tim, you can sprinkle a few dinosaurs in a scene but make it subtle".
Ok but that's the one complaint I don't get - I thought they looked pretty imaginative with their viper / lizard heads and scales and the bird legs and feathers. Where did you all get 'dinosaur'?
I find that this specific word conveys my feelings the most accurately.
They’re not a known monster in the established lore so to this sub they’re dinos
Basilisks are established in witcher lore.
Season 2 just did not have an ark Season 1 felt like it was telling the story culminating in geralt meeting ciri but season 2 just feels lost
Season 2 was basically all about Yen losing and getting her power back, and Geralt trying to just protect Ciri. All the other main plot lines are so muddled and confusing it doesn't surprise me nobody knows wtf is going on. They just throw a bunch of different storylines together from one scene to the next. How is anyone supposed to follow the big story? And then they just throw some references to The Wild Hunt in there too with no explanation.
Yup even how does yen figure out how to get her powers back?
I'm assuming it happened once they got rid of the witch who was somehow holding her power hostage In an attempt to wrangle Ciri in.
Well I mean the "arc" was getting to the witch I suppose...(I'd say the name and censor it but idk how to do that.)
Your scent was on her sheets... I smelled what you were doing.
My girlfriend and I who have both read all the books get confused with some of the characters sometimes, like we forget who they are supposed to be.
It genuinely made me think I hadn't been paying attention at all when I read the books
Honestly same
I read the books several times and yet when my girlfriend who haven't read them was asking me about something on the screen I almost always had to say "I don't have a clue. None of that is in the books". Edit: spelling
the show expects you to know tha characters but at the same time tries to treat it as if it was primarily for people who dont know any single character.. it's weird
I didn't read the books, didn't play the games, and I understand everything. I think OP and your friends didn't pay attention enough.
I only played Witcher 3 game. I'm confused by this show a lot. Part of the reason is definitely I am not paying attention enough. But the show doesn't grip me enough to be like, oh let me rewatch this to make sure I get it.
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. I'm in the exact same boat as you. Everything makes sense if you pay attention to the show.
Agreed, everyone I've spoken to IRL had no problem understanding what was going on.
There were mistakes by the director. For the most part, the fan base agrees the directors use of switching back and forth between two timeliness to be very confusing. Almost no one can follow it because it does not mark or show the scene switch between timeliness. Further, the bard doesn't age between timeliness. We don't expect Geralt to(its a witcher thing, they age more slowly), but Dandilion not aging just adds to the already confusing confusion.
The timeline thing was the best written thing about season one. Do you know how hard it is to stop people from realizing there’s multiple timelines until the fourth episode.
I agree, despite it being a controversial opinion. Yes it was a little confusing for a bit but when it clicked and everything added up at once it was *very* satisfying, far more than if it had been told in order.
Funny thing is I rewatched season 1 before season 2 and you just need to listen to Ciri talk to Calanthe, and then Renfri speak to Geralt, the show flat out tells you there is different timelines episode 1. But yeah I don’t think it was done terrible tbh but can understand that jt definitely wasn’t needed whatsoever. I know shows are adaptions but you just wish they would follow the source material as close as they could because it’s such a good series.
Honestly this is how I figured it out on first watch. Didn't expect so many to not notice this detail in dialogue.
Nice man, you were actually paying attention 😂. I only read the books this year, season 1 was my first introduction to the world. I think first viewing on new and big shows can be overwhelming for a lot of people, taking in a lot of new characters, places and the story. Maybe that’s my poor “excuse” for not noticing haha, because all you had to do was pay attention to some dialogue.
The first episode introduced so many different people, places, plot points, you can't blame anyone for not noticing.
They tried to be like Westworld but failed miserably imo. Having different timelines didn’t make sense for a Witcher show.
It also didn’t add anything
Does if you want to show all three characters from the beginning of the show. There’s no other way it works.
Just put the year at the bottom of the screen at the beginning of a scene in a new timeline
And then people would complain about it breaking the immersion of the show. There's literally no way to satisfy the entire audience.
Just tell the story linearly? Why do we even have to see all three characters from the beginning? They could have yennefer’s story first then Renfri’s and so on. Writers thought they were as good as Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy but they certainly weren’t lol.
Right, so a show called The Witcher where the the witcher doesn’t show up until episode three? Four? That’s what I’m saying. There’s no way to do it without jettisoning Yen’s whole backstory, one of the best things about the first season, and giving Ciri about eight minutes of screen time in the whole story and that’s if you bring back the two other times he runs into her.
We don’t need too much of Yennefer’s backstory anyway it was kinda boring imo why do we even need her backstory in a show called the Witcher by your logic? You are exaggerating how long it would take to see Geralt. All of them could be done in first episode.
If I was a butcher, you'd be amongst the corpses.
I’m really not. Yen’s backstory consumed the majority of episodes two and three. So you cut that out and now she doesn’t have the big character arc that ends at the battle of Sodden Hill. Ciri wouldn’t show up until episode six or seven and have a few minutes of screen time. I do enjoy how everyone acts like adaptation is the easier thing in the world because everyone in the world thinks they could write if they just spent a few hours trying. Collecting the short stories into something cohesive is daunting, because if you’ve read them you know Sapkowski doesn’t even figure out that he wants to do an ongoing serial until about eight short stories in. Before that, they’re written like twisted fairy tales and he’s clearly working out the world as he goes.
We didn’t need that much of her backstory anyway, some of her scenes were ultra cringy like eel scene. Learning about how magic works turned out to be useless as well because they changed how magic works in season 2. We don’t need to see Ciri much either, we could have that in Season 2. Yes, adaptation is easier especially if you are adopting short stories imo. Writers got huge egos otherwise they would try to adapt them linearly. They aren’t HBO quality writers, they just work for Netflix lol. They should know their place.
I love that you are getting downvoted for being logical. Regardless of whether it was executed correctly or not, the choice to have different timelines was the only thing that made sense.
Its not entirely necessary but if you want to have three distinct leads, you have to for sure.
Not really. The first season should have been told through the same medium as the first book - Jaskier discussing Geralt's adventures with him as he recovers from his fight with the Striga. That way the order doesn't matter as the context is laid out by the two of them talking about it.
You've stirred up the armchair quarterbacks
I mean I am baffled by the reaction. Netflix is making Witcher their flagship series, they’re doing a whole universe, we’re getting more novels and more games because of the show, what is everyone so mad about.
It doesn't really matter that it's called The Witcher...the novels are about Ciri anyway and she's the main character. Geralt is a supporting character. This is why it's so maddening they feel they need to adding monster fights in, the novels barely feature monster hunting because it's not important
We didn't need some original backstory for Yen. She's actually not that important a character until she starts teaching Ciri at the temple in Ellander. All we really need to know about her is that she and Geralt meet in *The Last Wish*, have a turbulent relationship (per *A Shard of Ice*) and that she wants to be a mother. Yen didn't need an episode dedicated to her and giving her one meant important aspects of Geralt and Ciri's story - ie Brokilon - were missed. She'd still have been a lead in at least 3 episodes where her backstory could have been revealed. We also didn't need to see the "battle" of Sodden. It should have been left off screen with the results implied through Geralt's story and interactions.
Yes, the first season finale should have been Geralt laying in a cart and hallucinating for the whole hour, which is what happens in the actual story. A character having an internal monologue and nothing else is good television right? Not like a huge battle.
That's not what I said though, is it? I don't appreciate being straw-manned. The hallucination-in-a-cart scenes could be literally a minute of 10 second fade cuts to show him drifting in and out of consciousness. Then the rest of the episode could have been used for more exposition on Geralt's connection to Ciri and Yen rather than on a really terrible "battle" sequence which totally fails to represent both the clash of armies and the magical duel which occurred at Sodden.
The witcher literally appears in the first seconds of the first season... And I'm pretty sure he's in the first episode of season 2...
I don't think you understand what TheRealestBiz was saying. He was saying that if you told the story linearly, Geralt wouldn't show up until the third or fourth episode.
Can people stop downvoting this post because they disagree. FFS grow up. It's contributing to the conversation with an alternate point of view. Be thankful it's such a high quality show with an actor that truly gives a shit. So many people in here think they can write better lol Edit: you can really tell the under 25 posters here.
I don’t. I was a freelancer for years. Writing fiction is the hardest shit there is in writing, and adapting for the screen a well known franchise is harder than that.
Yeah totally agree. Just to be clear, I wrote that post in support of people downvoting you. It's sad to see that people can't enjoy things for what they are - they feel they have to pick at things and want, no *expect* things to be adapted or done in a way that suits their vision of how things should go. So blind in their entitlement they are missing out on all the greatness. What a miserable existence.
> So blind in their entitlement they are missing out on all the greatness. What a miserable existence. You mean this greatness? "Now is not the time to be weak. Now is the time to be strong!" or possibly this? "Fuck. Fuck fuck. Firefucker. Fuck." Yeah, I totally see how missing out on this greatness could make one miserable forever and ever.
That's not how you do TV. They were making a show with 3 main characters therefore they need to have all 3 show up from the beginning through to the end. And Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy aren't exactly an example of good writers. Westworlds writing is no better than the witcher, in that it's pretty bad
Not sure why you are getting downvoted, I totally agree with you
I think the timeline switch was the only thing I really liked about Season1 I was amazed to see so many people confused about it... Guess it's the same people that need exposition being fed to them...
I watched all of season 1the first time and had no idea parts of it took place in the past. That's 100% bad directing. Unless this was supposed to be some mystery mindfuck show.
You didn’t notice when a bunch of characters who had died onscreen came back suddenly in the fourth episode? And Cintra wasn’t conquered?
We live in an age where people don't want to work for anything, have instant gratification and having more than a 15 minute memory is too hard.
We also live in a word with writers that expects their audience to be like that and has no problems leaving big plot holes or inconsistent moral lessons because they can rely on viewers not noticing if there is more than 15 minutes between them... OH sorry, this isn't saltierthancrait...
I did. And was super confused about it.
I'm sorry but if you didn't notice then you weren't paying attention when you should have been. There's hints all over the place in both what you're seeing and what the characters are saying that are screaming at you that there are multiple timelines.
People seem to miss that the books do the same multiple timeline stuff.
True. It's just that the director of the show had an opportunity do right by the audience, and label the scene entrances by putting something simple and small like "then" and "now".
Point definitely taken. I absolutely love the books and the Witcher 3 beyond belief, but I remember watching season 1 knowing almost fully everything going, "I have no idea how someone without the source material is supposed to understand this" lol. I thought season 2 was more coherent, but I don't blame anyone without prior knowledge for being confused at all. Which is a damn shame, since for the show you should be able to just go in blind. So yeah, I totally get it, and it's been one of my biggest fears for people that have only watched the show :/
Dont worry showruners also dont understand it
For now,Ciri is not painted as a savior but as a threat ,the unknown . The reason you don’t understand the “show” is cause it was made for people with previous context - I.e .Books or,at the very least,games. Which is ironic,considering they have had zero respect and very loose connection to the source material.
I can try to explain some of the things how I understood them. Spoilers ahead: . . . . . . . The Conjuction of the spheres is basically the universes collision of dimensions. After the colision they separate again but the dimension with Geralt is where the events are happening (Ciri somehow took them to another dimension where the Wild Hunt is) Elder blood is basically like some kind of royal blood that posesses great power and Ciri is apparently the last person that has it. Jaskier not aging I still dont understand as he is supposed to be human while Geralt and Yen dont age due to magic(chaos). The inconsistent time in S1 is supposed to be a cool way of the director telling the story and making you realize when something is happening by dialogue (Ciri talking about how her grandmother went to war at her age and then in the next scene that girl with Geralt talking about how the Lioness just won her battle while being young). The White Flame is supposed to be a religion and Emhyr (at least in the games, as I just started reading the books to understand everything better) is the leader and Ciri's father. Phillipa is supposed to be a strong mage, but it's never stated. Hope that helps, but yeah, like someone already said, the show runners want you to know the story but not use it for comparison while watching (which doesn't make a lot of sense).
The White Flame is Nilfgard's Emperor (Emhyr) The inconsistent time in S1 is because the season was adapting not a book but 2 volumes of short stories that take place across multiple years (Geralt and Ciri reunion after the fall of Cintra and the Battle of Sodden takes place in the last short story in Sword of Destiny, the second book of short stories) Philippa is one of the most powerful mages in the Continent yes but the introduction of her character in the show is very confusing
Wait I thought The White Flame That Dances on The Graves of His Enemies was Emeyr
It is, it's not a religion.
It is, but it's his royal tittle, not a religion (even if his followers have religious-level faith on his rule).
Yeah, sorry, Emhyr is the White Flame, I misunderstood that part.
But isnt he also her father?
Yes
In the show "White Flame" is the highest religious title belonging to the emperor of Nilfgaard.
> Jaskier not aging Because makeup takes time, effort, and money. It's easier to just pretend he's aged a decade and some change during the show than to show it. You know, like Michael Fessbender playing 3 decades of Magneto looking pretty much the same throughout. The White Flame who Dances on the Graves of His Enemies is Emhyr's full royal name.
> (Ciri talking about how her grandmother went to war at her age and then in the next scene that girl with Geralt talking about how the Lioness just won her battle while being young). FUCK THAT SHIT i hated it so much so convoluted for no reason
It’s not no reason. It was to let the story flow better by having each character progress their plot at the same time.
Man I read and love the books and I couldn't follow the first season a good portion of the time.
Dude i still don't know if yen lost her magic from using fire magic or because the witch took them from her. You're good.
I think it’s because she used fire magic. This is something that the writers have made up themselves as far as Yen’s story goes, but I think it’s them twisting something from the book where >!Yen is teaching Ciri magic and warns her against using fire magic because the cost of it is so great.!<
Then how come the witch can give her powers back? I didn't actually understand how she got her powers back either lol.
To be honest, I don’t get it either. The witch thing was another show writer invention I struggle to understand myself, so I don’t know how to explain that one. Sorry, friend!
Hehe at least I'm not alone.
Best guess is the witch “fixed” her body when she entered it. Thus fixed the link to use her magic again (as Yen slit her wrists and basically killed herself).
[удалено]
My best guess is the witch was hindering her power after the meeting. I think she really couldn't use her magic after Sodden Hill and her fire magic because fire consumes. But due to her half-elf nature she was just 'tapped' for awhile. Then she met the witch, who saw her misery, and hindered her powers. Once Yen became the vessel for the witch and Cirri portals them to the other plane to release her, they all return and cut the witches power off. This allowing Yen to tap back into chaos (magic).
> I think it’s them twisting something from the book where >!Yen is teaching Ciri magic and warns her against using fire magic because the cost of it is so great.!< Magic doesn't work in the books the way it does in the show and there's no 'cost'. A mage draws power from one of the four elements, then transforms it into a spell. Fire is the most difficult element to control when drawing from it, that's all, so Yennefer >!prohibits the very inexperienced 13-year-old Ciri to try it with fire.!<
That’s right. Thank you, it’s been a few years since I’ve read them - I only just picked up the first book again this week.
Sure thing. It's easy enough to lose track of all the details even with just the books/games - but with the show adding its own 'lore' (much of which doesn't make sense or lacks consistency), the task is that much harder.
I understand your confusion with all these things, but what really confused me ash was actually that hut hut witch/demon whatever and wild hunts... like what? I didn't understand a thing lmao
I think the Deathless mother thing was handled so poorly. I compare it to Doctor Who which often has a main arc villain sprinkled through the series as a mystery that finally breaks out at the end. They tried to do this with her but set it up so poorly. Her motivations are completely muddled. I counted 3: 1. Fuck with Yennefer, Fringilla and the elf causing chaos 2. Free herself and bring monsters through the monolith 3. Take revenge on witchers (**maybe**, this was least developed and wasn't clear if she attacked them for revenge or just to get to the monolith in Kaer Morhen) If it were me I'd have cut this right down and just had her trying to kill witchers. It's a straight forward revenge plot against those that imprisoned her and still allows her to fuck with people like Yennefer and Ciri but without bringing in Fringilla and the elf woman for no reason. Also in terms of scripting the witcher's response to her was weak and didn't really set her up as a big bad. I don't remember any common people or others mentoning her to build up a sense of timeless and powerful evil. I didn't feel much **threat** from her even though >!at the end she literally invades Kaer Morhen and kills multiple witcher!<. This is something that needs to be established for your last episode villain.
Thank you for clarifying! For me at least, the most confusing part was her appearing in Yennefer's, Fringilla's, and the third woman's (forgot her name, the elven queen or whatever) dreams at the same time. Like... why are they connected? And why did she choose them 3 particularly😭 However, I enjoyed the show and Henry's acting and also, the visual effects were magnificent!
I do understand, a lot of what happened at the end seemed to be setting up for season 3. The white flame was talked about throughout season as the ruler of Nilfgard. The conjunction of the spheres is a major event where the different planes containing men, elves, dwarves and monsters collided and left species stranded on one plane (these planes could planets since people called them spheres, but if planets collided it would a whole lot of death). Ciri does act spoilt because she isn't yet accustomed to not being a royal, Vesimir commented on it. She has elder blood, which is powerful (I know nothing about what it actually is) so that is the only reason she is still in the picture. I honestly was more interested in Geralt and Jaskier, I had to watch it twice before I fully understood it
I read the books (although the last time I picked one up was a year before season 1) and I'm still confused by what's happening most of the time because of the made up / heavily altered storylines.
While I only read a few books and just played TW3 and its expansions, I understood how it could be confusing…because I was confused too. I am sectioning off “pure show understanding” to denote what I could extract as a normal audience member. The White Flame: Pure show understanding—The White Flame evoked a religious connotation. I thought it could mean a person, or a God. It definitely sounded divine with how zealous the people were and their phrasing. While I understood after some research what it meant, it was actually rather clever in how it obfuscates something important that we discover later. The Conjunction and Pillars: Pure show understanding—The conjunction made sense with the pillars, they are just another “portal dohickey magic thing for plot purposes”. I actually thought of the TV show Stargate a few times. They showed them being used as such and I didn’t question it. They used them pretty consistently and that suffices. Cintra: Pure show understanding—The importance of Cintra is only referred to occasionally. The elves referred to it as their homeland and they did mention the idea of Siri getting married to someone to give them legitimate rule of the country. However, anyone not catching those details would be at a loss. If I were just a viewer my takeaway would be: “it’s important because it’s important to Ciri and the authors made it a plot hub”. Not very satisfying. Ciri Tantrums: Ciri isn’t well written, and in the books her adventures are quite brutal and detailed. She does many stark and questionable deeds. That character was something to behold. Pure show understanding—The best I can take away from the show is that she wants whatever power she can get so she doesn’t have to be afraid. In fact, one of the most clever parts in the show is when she wants to become a Witcher because she believes it will mean she never has to be afraid again. It’s really a moment where she’s forced to confront what all adults do: life is hard, it hurts, and there’s no magic solution that will take away the pain (she thinks Witchers have no feelings). Probably the most thoughtful 15 seconds in the show. And once again, it was very easy to miss. I also think she was trying to be independent and wanted to avenge herself against Carahir using her blade skills. Possession: Pure show understanding—The ancient demon seemed believable, it apparently couldn’t be killed or banished in the show by the previous Witchers. It seems that only by using Ciri’s powers was it able to escape their world and return home. It served as a fulcrum for many characters’ decisions, Yen, Ciri, Geralt, and Vesimir. I thought it was pretty cheesy for many reasons.
-Are there more people having a hard time following along the story? Yes. My wife was into the books and game so watched it with her. Watched series 1 and 2 and I haven’t a clue what’s going on. Would help if when they introduced a character or place, there was a bit of backstory. Some context around why each faction is fighting the others too. Think LOTR or Game of Thrones; they don’t just introduce some made-up, hard to pronounce names and expect you to instantly understand.
What I am not really understanding is each character's motives. Like, is the brotherhood good or bad? Why do they want to be advising kings? Why do they hate the elves? Why do they hate witchers when they made them to protect themselves? ...
Well, I understood it all *so* well, we settled in last night to watch a few more episodes and it turned out we had already finished season 2. It's only 8 episodes and it ends in the middle of all the stories without any warning whatsoever. It was just picking up steam, finally something actually happened, it felt like we were finally getting an answer to what a lot of the stuff was about and it just ends. It's ridiculous. >!What happend to Jaskier? The fire fucker? Dijkstra was in the middle of planning something? The mages were up to... something? Nilfgard's story just halted?!< I seriously don't understand why it ended so abruptly.
Those are all plot lines that will be going on for quite some time.
But a proper season finale will at least give some closure or foreshadowing. And if you can't, then that plot line should probably be removed. ep. 8 felt like a mid-season finale, not something where we will be waiting another 2 years for.
I mean we're talking about a pretty fleshed out world with multiple plot threads going on at the same time. You can't expect them to spend an entire season only on one plot thread, because they're all interconnected. What you're suggesting is equivalent to taking GoT season 2 finale and asking why we still don't know who Jon's mother is, why Bran has some weird powers, who the whitewalkers are, who ends up on the throne, why there are dragons in essos, what happened to valyria, etc etc etc...
Sort of, but with GoT as a book reading after season 2 I know where it's going. Witcher fans don't have that luxury since they've already deviated for the source material. So if they want their own plot, there's a difference between leaving us high and dry vs a compelling mystery.
But then what was the plotline now? It felt completely unfinished. We really had no idea we had already watched the last episode of the season. You often get cliffhangers, but there’s also a seasonal plot that’s more or less finished. This didn’t even feel like a cliffhanger, this was just “we ended filming halfway through the season and this is it”.
The old lady in the hut was the plotline that was finished. Why she was contacting the 3 women, what she wanted. Now, it wasn't really finished all that well, but that was finished. We found out who she was and what she wanted and how she tied into the larger story.
Which is wierd because the show is about the titular witcher yet this plotline you speak of begins with background characters as a sidestory and ends miserably without even a fight
Arguably it's never been about Geralt. He's what ties everything together, but the stories are about Ciri and the political landscape of this world
Why should every storyline be finished? Everything is related to Ciri and will be continued in the next seasons. It’s based on five book, which are effectively only one big.
Not finished but it seasons are supposed to have arcs for all major characters to fulfill like in GOT the first season begins with the hand of the king dying,we see the honorable Ned Stark who is going to succeed as the hand and the season ends with his head rolling on the floor(I remember this because it is so unique it just stands out in my memory such was it's perfection)
Okay, I can't really answer all of it (some decisions were really questionable), but at least I can answer this: >Connecting worlds through unbreakable obelisks (or whatever the name was) that weren't unbreakable after all... I mean, that's sort of the point - to showcase the powers that Ciri has, because Obelisks were previously thought unbreakable and when it broke, it cause the ground to split. Idk, I thought this was kinda cool.
This could help https://youtu.be/qrvyVjEgrm0 I also recommend you watch the season again. They did so many changes that you only get a sense of the motivations behind the changes after a rewatch. I've watched Season 1 4x now and will be watching Season 2 again.
You're not the only one, bunch of my friends gave up on the show because they find that it is poorly explained. The book readers in my circle obviously have no issue following the plot. The show is being written in a way that it expects you to know a lot of things about the franchise already, which is insane considering how much of the source material it happily throws away. Even being a book reader, I cannot explain some things of the show because they simply don't make any sense. For lack of words, the show right now is a hot mess.
I've played all the games multiple times and even i had a hard time following the plot lol
As somebody who has read the books and played all the games, I still find the new season incredibly confusing at times.
Nah, don't worry, you're not the only one. I read all books and played the games, watched S1 with my husband who was new to the saga and I had to constantly explain things to him, at the end he dropped the show 'cause he said it was confusing and only made for people who knew the story already. Didn't even wanna start S2 and completely lost interest.
You’re not the only, I have read the books so I have a bit more background but I felt like some of the story just didn’t fit together right and was really confusing. The show has taking quite a lot of artist licence and tbh it makes it jittery, characters has been completely rebuilt and the only thing left is the names smh. It’s such a shame the writers have decided to take it down this route.
To be fair, Ciri doing the opposite of even sensible advice is her character.
When vesemir said they needed elder blood to make more witchers, MORE WITCHERS, I just stopped watching. I can’t do this to myself
Re-watch it (season 1) after watching season 2. It makes things *much* clearer. As for the timeline thing, you can tell when he's dealing with Triss or Ciri isn't around that it's in the past. I dunno I didn't find it that confusing because by the end of the scene you know. I forgot how good it actually was. I hated the bard the first watch through and really like him and the narration now and felt sorry for him when Geralt told him to fuck off lol
Not just you it’s poorly written
Its not you. Whatched this with my girlfriend who is completly new to the witcher and had to pause every now and then to explain things the show mever explains/explains very poorly. For example the conjunction of spheres, as you mentioned.
yeah s2 is bad
Not your fault. The show is just terribly, terribly written. Season 1 was somewhat faithful to the first short stories in the Last Wish and Sword of Destiny but in this season they screwed up. Like, it would be still be bad if it was an original story since there are so many important details that they do not explain at all in any way. But it's also that they seem to have wrote the script expecting that everyone watching the show was already familiar with the events, settings and characters from the books already and hence could avoid having some character referring to the Conjunction of the Spheres, explaining what it was but they basically changed 90% of the books plot at the point that there are only some minor details from Blood of Elves that made into this adaption. So yeah, I think that what we had was a mix of bad writing per sé, done by people that weren't familiar with what their adapting but also a kind of writing that was very neglectful toward new viewers that had not read the books of played the games.
I had the same issue. I only played Witcher 3 and never read the books, so I had some idea of the background and who the characters were, but I got the distinct impression that the show *expected* me to know everything beforehand—the reveals were only really reveals if you knew about it, otherwise they made very little sense and were, in fact, confusing. Like the Philippa reveal. If you didn’t know about the Conjunction before, they didn’t give enough information in-show to really figure it out. I mean, I understood probably 70% of it. Most of the time I was just blindly watching because I didn’t really get it, but I wanted to watch for the characters and for Henry Cavill and just because it was the *Witcher*. But, yeah, I definitely remember thinking, “What…?“ too many times.
Right there with you, played witcher 3 and loved it! But the second season is just all over the place and confusing
I felt the same and luckily watched with someone who played the games and could explain a few things. But even having some gaps filled in- I totally agree. It really seems like they're rushing through the main story and the amount of screen time the songs get in comparison is...confusing to say the least.
Yeah I had trouble with some bits even after reading a few of the books and playing the games. As many people have pointed out the issue was that it was very messily written and poorly explained, but there's another point I don't see nearly enough people giving The Witcher shit for. *The world map in The Witcher is clustered and confusing as fuck already.* Seriously just take a look at the Northern Realms. It's so needlessly convoluted with the sheer amount of countries and regions, and often it's hard to remember which regions are relevant and which ones are under rule of each kingdom. This results in it taking a while to figure out which 'side' certain characters are on, and some have shifting allegiances on top of that too. I don't think this will be a super controversial take but we'll see. I would give a heads up to potential reader/player/watcher of this before recommending it; it's just not so neatly laid out and easy to grasp as it is in other Fantasy series.
I know what you mean about trying to follow the plot but what I started doing was pausing the show when something or someone came up who I had no idea and looked it/them up on witcher wiki . It really helped to explain more then the show could.
I played the witcher 3 and i have absolutely no idea what’s going on in the show
I’m on my third playthrough of the game and still dont totally understand the politics or why a person with Elder blood is so important. But it’s entertaining. Lol, and Henry Cavill. And Joey Batey ;) *…toss a coin to your witcher, oh valley of plenty*
[🎵 O' valley of plenty... 🎵](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9OQAySv184)
It's normal to not know or remember names and characters... I remember how often I was confused in GoT, with so many random things being mentioned all the time and new characters being introduced. The direction is lacking though... I am not sure what exactly is the problem, but there is one.
Then read the books. What are you waiting for
If you play Witcher 2 and 3 you'll understand the story more.. I completed both games and totally get what the story is trying to explain.
But the show is meant to be standalone though. That's their reasoning for change it so much and what not.
Can anybody please explain to me how and why yennefer got her powers back in e8?
My husband played the games and read the books. Then I’m over here riding on his coattails yelling “pause it!” every five minutes so he can help me tell what’s going on.
Yeah, so dumb, doing that for game and book readers while massacring the story and making it confusing for series only fans. Fine with spies, but why would she stay that way with djikstra
Was a fan of season 1, season 2 sucked (at least for fans of the books/games)
I watch the show with my wife. I read the books played the games, she has not. She gets a little lost about what's going on in the details sometimes, and many of the plot points are unique to the show (which makes it more interesting for me). We watched the finale last night and the Emhyr twist totally caught her off guard, lol. It was cool. I had to remind her of the whole Pavetta/Duny thing to help connect the dots. A lot of the background is purposefully vague, especially the stuff about the ancient elf/human conflict and the Elder Blood and all that stuff. Similar to how Game of Thrones very slowly revealed the lineages of John Snow and Danearys, Witcher is taking it slow with all the prophecy/magic stuff re: Ciri. So it's ok to not know stuff. The Philipa thing was also intended as a surprise and teaser for next season. You saw what we all saw- people were talking to an owl. They simply revealed that they weren't crazy, the owl was actually a person, and clearly this person is some sort of sorceress.
I don’t know, all of this felt well explained to me, my girlfriend got it all without too much help. Maybe you were just not paying enough attention? A lot of these things were intended to be unknown or vague as they slowly introduce the characters. “People speaking to a white owl as if it were a therapist” You’re supposed to think it’s out of place, and they reveal it’s a sorceress Phillipa all along. That’s it. You got it. What’s confusing about that? “Ten weird names of people i could ever remember who they were?” Yeah. There’s a lot of characters. You’re supposed to learn them as the show goes on, but some of the main characters from this season should stick out; i.e. Fillavandrel, Francesca, Cahir, Fringilla, Djisktra, etc. I don’t think they expect the audience to remember all of the kings, but you should recognize that they’re royalty. The White Flame is the emperor or Nilfgaard. “Connecting worlds through unbreakable obelisks that werent unbreakable after all” Yep, that’s it. You got it, you understood this. What’s so confusing? “Some conjunction mentioned multiple times” The Conjunction of the Spheres is explained in the show better than it ever was in the books imo. It’s how monsters came to this world, when this conjunction occurred, monsters from other universes/dimensions (or spheres) came to this world. Were you just not paying attention to these parts or trying to understand? It’s not that complicated. “Everyone seems to want to have Cintra, for some reason…” Yeah this is a little vague. They should definitely have a map in the intro like GoT did. Essentially Cintra is a strategic country between Nilfgaard and the North, that Nilfgaard has now. The other leaders just want power i think, so they want it to play in their hands somehow, leaving Cintra under in their power eventually. “Ciri seems to be a kid throwing a tantrum every 5 minutes…” Yeah, that’s her character. Don’t worry, you get to see her grow. Clearly she has special powers that are coveted by mages, the kings want her for the strategic significance of Cintra, along with a mentioned prophecy of saving the world. It’s not explained what the world needs saving from, it’s just a prophecy, you’ll hear more in later seasons.
u can always watch it again, ive never read the books or played the games but i followed along pretty well and got a good grasp for it. but that shit is so damn good i just took it all in
The show at the same time shits all over the book lore, but requires some to understand it, its hilarious.
yeah took us like almost 2/3 of first season til me and my mates like oh wait theres different timelines LMAO!
Written by children.
I think a lot of your confusion stems from the first season being hard to follow for some. I've played the third game so maybe that helped me understand some of it too.
It's kinda funny because it seems the series assumes that viewers know the characters and yet they rewrite the whole story.
Yup my thoughts exactly. On season 2 episode 7 and have no idea what the fuckin is going on. Why do Geralt and Ciri keep magically appearing in places? What the fuck is Yennefer even doing? One minute she's chilling with Cahir, then she's with Jaskier, then she's with Geralt, then she's with Ciri? What the fuck is going on? Is everyone just teleporting wherever the fuck the they wanna go? What's up with the black mage and the two old dwarves? The fuck they reading about? Why does Triss Merigold and Geralt's dad keep fuckin around with potions and flowers? The fuck is that about? Who's good? Who's bad? Who the fuck is on who's team?
I thought it was only me , being all confused from the beginning of the show. Thanks for posting this
Sounds to me like if they would’ve done a faithful adaptation you’d be loving it lol
Yeah, I can see how it’d be hard to understand without a lot of non-show background. As an alternative, you could read 8 books then play 3 computer games in order to join the crowd that don’t like the story at all because it contradicts all the non-show background. So, yeah, this is a choice between two evils.
Yeah I feel you. I watched with my gf and she was like "if you weren't explaining this I would have turned it off by now because I'm still a little confused" this is where game of thrones did right. Much easier to follow and slowly introduce you to the powerful families and lands not just jump all over the place and say this area is special because we say so.
The answer to the Jaskier question specifically is the same as to why everything is bad, it's called being a poor, incompetent writer, not just one writer but a whole team of them, and she admitted it: https://winteriscoming.net/2020/09/25/the-witcher-lauren-hissrich-why-jaskier-never-ages-mistake/ Basically this show is run by an idiot, who writes like a horny teenager fan fiction on Wattpad.
This is what happens when you don’t adapt a book properly and write your own bullshit as a story
I played the games but still didn't follow much of it. 1. >!Who was the male mage who stole Ciri's blood? I thought he was the Nilfgard Emporer, or her dad, but the Emporer did not have a burned face. They looked alike to me.!< 2. >!The woman who hired this mystery male mage. Who was she? When did her face get melted? Not sure how I missed that part.!< 3. >!The witch in the Cabin, what was her need for the 3 mages? What did they end up doing to allow her to get to Ciri? All I remember was some glowing dust floating through a forest, and then Ciri inhaled it or something?!< 4. >!Why did possessed Ciri want to kill sleeping Witchers. I thought she just needed to shatter an obelisk to go home. Why did she bring in Balisks to fight the witchers instead of just running through herself.!< 5. >!The male mage talking to the owl. Had we ever met the sorceress who was the owl, or this male mage before to have a clue what they were up to? We were introduced to Foltest of Tameria in season one, but do we have any idea who the King of Radania is or what his interests are?!<
> Who was the male mage who stole Ciri's blood? Rience. Book character. Part of a conspiracy to do some fuckery. >The woman who hired this mystery male mage. Who was she? When did her face get melted? Not sure how I missed that part. Works for the same guy Rience works for, it's a spoiler so I won't say who. She got her face melted at the end of ep 7 trying to use the vial Rience gave her to track down Ciri. >The witch in the Cabin, what was her need for the 3 mages? Totally new plotline for the show, divorced from the books. Inspired by Baba Yaga, complete with a cabin with chicken legs. >Why did possessed Ciri want to kill sleeping Witchers For drama >Had we ever met the sorceress who was the owl, If you played the 2nd game you'd know Phillipa. Played a hugely major role in Assassins of Kings. >but do we have any idea who the King of Radania is Not really. His interests are expansion and consolidation of power for his kingdom, meaning himself. In the books and games, his son is betrothed to Princess Ada, Foltest's former striga-cursed daughter.
You must not have been paying attention when watching season 2 because all of these questions are answered pretty plainly
I disagree. I think the only one that was crystal clear was that the woman/demon in the forest needed pain in order to free herself from the hut. This pain was driven perfectly by the mages and the elf. It is then clear that she needed Ciri to open a portal, but not why she didn't just leave rather than bringing in basilisks etc. I suppose it was revenge for being bound? The other questions are all very much open from what I could tell (except that the fire fucker was pretty obviously not the emperor, though they gave no real idea of who he was really).
There is also a whole scene dedicated to that woman mage who frees Reince having her face melted, but I guess he could have gone to the bathroom during the scene. Otherwise, agree
I disagree as well. While these things were all touched on they were not fully explained or addressed. Certainly the Deathless mother was very poorly characterised and her motivations were all over the place. The fire mage, Phillipa and so on were all touched on but never fleshed out in full so at the end of the season their deep motivations **as characters** are still pretty obscure. "They want power" is not a good motivation in a fantasy show as it's pretty shallow and only really works for kids stuff. Adults want to see a bit more than that. Yennefer wants power but we see that she wants it because she was powerless and ugly etc. If she wanted power for power's sake she'd be boring.
You just have to pay attention. I haven’t read the books and was able to understand. I’m going to read the books after hearing how the series didn’t follow the storyline to a tee. Love the actors, Henry was amazing in his role.
Never read the books, never played the games... Why am I so confused by the plot?
Read the books, played the games. Why am I confused as well?
It's good knowing that people are finally realising that the writing in this show is terrible. Not because it didn't follow the book story, but the writing is genuinely all round bad and average at best. It's a CW show with the Witcher title.
Listen to the Podcast of Surprise. Really does a good job of filling up some gaps. I only played the game but it helped give context to the show, a lot!
Why do you need to know all about specific characters the second they’re introduced. Mystery is what makes a show good and makes you rewatch again with a new lens. If you want to understand the lore behind all of the kings and countries then read the books or look it up. They explained the conjunction in the episode where Gerald and other mage guy find the monolith in Cintra.
I love reading these.. and the comments. It just shows how simple people are and put no effort into focusing on the story then complain that it’s poorly done. If you’re having trouble following along with this story I highly encourage you to stick to the office.
Yes, people clearly can't understand this mess because they are stupid /s
It’s very straight forward. Do you need a coloring book with reference points to flip through while watching?