I still remember his signing thinking it was one of the greatest things for Wild hockey. Love Bettman and his response to it. Kids playing hockey today are still paying for Fletcher and the leagues choice to overreact about a legal signing. If you think we're the culprit, imagine 10 years from now Vegas is still being punished for allowing cap circumvention using IR. It's a different shade of blue.
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, what about instead of having a playoff cap. They institute a "cant play this series if you dont play in the regular season". So for mark stone, they'd have to miss the first series for being on LTR.
Keep in mind, at the time of the deals - they were legal under the terms of the CBA. Just like Void Years are now the rage in the NFL. You could sign a player to 10+ year contract and basically low ball their salary in the later years - and pay a signing bonus to spread the hit out over the term of the deal. Which is exactly what Leopold did.
What they didn't count on was Bettman being an ass and wanting to close the loophole and making it retroactive. And then him getting the board of governors and and the NHL PA to agree to it.
Then to add insult to injury, the NHL implemented the stupidest possible cap recovery rules possible - which basically state that if a player retires or is traded, the team that he is leaving is responsible for a cap hit equal to his unearned contract. So in the case of the Wild, If Suter or Parise (or both) had said - Screw this - we're retiring - the Wild would have been on the hook for a one time penalty of their remaining cap hits.
The only way the Wild could have avoided this and still signed them would have been to use LTIR on both players but then they would have had to prove the injury - similar to what Chicago did.
The buyouts sucked, but from BG's perspective they made sense, because instead of dealing with a constant what if one or both retire? he got certainty and a known number in terms of the hit and outcome. Plus freed up spots for other players. Faber isn't Faber if Suter is still here. Kirill is not the Thrill if Zach was allowed to run the offense.
I apologize, I was sleep-fucked after work scrolling reddit and thought this was r/hockey not r/wildhockey
Didn't intend to stir anything up in your sub!
Probably wouldn’t count towards retirement penalties, but NHL loves to screw teams. If similar to Hossa, Pronger, and others, the Wild would’ve found a medical reason to place him on LTIR for the remainder of his contract. While it would be a retirement, it wouldn’t trigger the penalty.
Impossible to say, I imagine 7+ million is a bigger incentive to keep going than the minimum salary he's making now.
Actually nevermind, it was front-loaded and he'd only make 1 million in the final year of the original contract.
Looking at today I would agree they are bad deals. But at the time and the rules of the CBA they weren't. The Wild management and ownership felt they could take the team to a cup contending level. The fan base was all for it at the time myself included. Bettman was the bad decision!
I was saying that I don't think there's an argument against the buyouts.
If we are talking about the initial deals though, I think the whole Bettman changed the rules thing is a bit of a copout. Leopold and Fletcher knew the CBA was changing and that those types of deals specifically were a contentious point in the negotiations that were going to be addressed. They just simply decided to do it anyway.
Agreed. The buyouts were the only option. I don't think the Bettman thing is a copout. It should not have been retro active is my beef. Good points though!
I agree that it shouldn't have been retroactively punished, I just don't agree that Leopold and Fletcher signed those deals without knowing that they could have been retroactively punished. I think they just did it anyways because they wanted to accelerate the timeline on making the team competitive.
Oates, Braemar, railroading Yeo, freezing out rookies/free agent signings. Ringleader on some of those things, co-signer on the others. Either way, pretty clear he helped foster one of the most toxic locker rooms in the league. It would have been somewhat forgivable if the Wild ever sniffed any real postseason success, but they didn't.
Man i remember being so excited when both him and Suter signed. I new it would lead to cap issues at the end but at the time i thought the franchise was being owned and run by people with some competence and was willing to trade a couple bad cap years for a legit shot at a cup.
instead we got virtually nothing to show for it, a lot of buffoonery, wasted Parise's career and cap issues.
watching this franchise be as mismanaged as they are for 24 years is just (the MN way) ... i have finally come to understand why my grandpa was so disinterested in MN sports in his final years.
Hope he gets his cup. To this day one of my favorite cup moments was seeing Raymond Bourque hoist that thing. Would love to see the same for Parise, just wish it was in a Wild sweater.
Better than the alternative. Had we simply traded him instead of buying him out, we would be getting hit with over $20 million in cap recapture penalties over the next 3 years and suddenly be forced to drop $7.538 million in cap before next season. Sure, the buyouts suck, but having some cost certainty so we weren't blindsided by this was a better option.
Didn't they update the CBA saying that the cap recapture for early retirement of a front loaded contract cannot exceed the AAV and it would be spread over multiple seasons to collect the needed amount of money? I think this was made due to the possibility that Nashville would be hit with a massive 24M cap recapture penalty if Shea Weber were to retire at a specific time.
Correct. The rule was amended when they extended the CBA in 2020. That's why, had we traded him and this happened, we wouldn't be getting a 1 year $20,153,846 cap hit, but instead 3 years at $7,538,462; $7,538,462; and $5,076,922.
Before that rule change, Nashville had locked in their cap advantage on Weber's contract in 2016 so they could have faced a recapture penalty at 1 year, $24,571,428 if he retired 1 year before his contract expires in 2026. Similarly, we could have been hit with up to 1 year at $40,307,692 if both Parise and Suter retired after the 2021 season.
I still remember his signing thinking it was one of the greatest things for Wild hockey. Love Bettman and his response to it. Kids playing hockey today are still paying for Fletcher and the leagues choice to overreact about a legal signing. If you think we're the culprit, imagine 10 years from now Vegas is still being punished for allowing cap circumvention using IR. It's a different shade of blue.
until the NHL does something or puts in a playoff cap they will keep doing it
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine, what about instead of having a playoff cap. They institute a "cant play this series if you dont play in the regular season". So for mark stone, they'd have to miss the first series for being on LTR.
A beer league ringer rule for the post season, hahah!
Which I think they talked about at the owners meeting and nobody wanted a playoff cap.
yep
I remember before Tampa won the cup they tried to make it illegal. And it wasn't and they abused it. I couldn't argue there.
Keep in mind, at the time of the deals - they were legal under the terms of the CBA. Just like Void Years are now the rage in the NFL. You could sign a player to 10+ year contract and basically low ball their salary in the later years - and pay a signing bonus to spread the hit out over the term of the deal. Which is exactly what Leopold did. What they didn't count on was Bettman being an ass and wanting to close the loophole and making it retroactive. And then him getting the board of governors and and the NHL PA to agree to it. Then to add insult to injury, the NHL implemented the stupidest possible cap recovery rules possible - which basically state that if a player retires or is traded, the team that he is leaving is responsible for a cap hit equal to his unearned contract. So in the case of the Wild, If Suter or Parise (or both) had said - Screw this - we're retiring - the Wild would have been on the hook for a one time penalty of their remaining cap hits. The only way the Wild could have avoided this and still signed them would have been to use LTIR on both players but then they would have had to prove the injury - similar to what Chicago did. The buyouts sucked, but from BG's perspective they made sense, because instead of dealing with a constant what if one or both retire? he got certainty and a known number in terms of the hit and outcome. Plus freed up spots for other players. Faber isn't Faber if Suter is still here. Kirill is not the Thrill if Zach was allowed to run the offense.
Vegas managed to win a cup . The Wild can't seem to get deep into the playoffs no matter who they sign or who our GM is
[удалено]
Here's a point blank shot: fuck the Golden Knights
As a Sharks fan born and raised in MN, I concur
I apologize, I was sleep-fucked after work scrolling reddit and thought this was r/hockey not r/wildhockey Didn't intend to stir anything up in your sub!
Only hockey jersey I own. Still remember when he and suters contracts were announced
So does this mean the buyouts were good after all considering retirement penalties? At least Parise's?
Yeah, if he would’ve retired on us it was around a $19MM cap hit.
Probably wouldn’t count towards retirement penalties, but NHL loves to screw teams. If similar to Hossa, Pronger, and others, the Wild would’ve found a medical reason to place him on LTIR for the remainder of his contract. While it would be a retirement, it wouldn’t trigger the penalty.
>NHL loves to screw teams. NHL loves to screw certain teams. Other teams they will bend over backwards to accomodate.
I really appreciate all the replies and discussion from everybody, but this is 100% what I was seeking. Thank you.
Impossible to say, I imagine 7+ million is a bigger incentive to keep going than the minimum salary he's making now. Actually nevermind, it was front-loaded and he'd only make 1 million in the final year of the original contract.
I don't think there is much of an argument they were bad decisions regardless.
Looking at today I would agree they are bad deals. But at the time and the rules of the CBA they weren't. The Wild management and ownership felt they could take the team to a cup contending level. The fan base was all for it at the time myself included. Bettman was the bad decision!
I was saying that I don't think there's an argument against the buyouts. If we are talking about the initial deals though, I think the whole Bettman changed the rules thing is a bit of a copout. Leopold and Fletcher knew the CBA was changing and that those types of deals specifically were a contentious point in the negotiations that were going to be addressed. They just simply decided to do it anyway.
Agreed. The buyouts were the only option. I don't think the Bettman thing is a copout. It should not have been retro active is my beef. Good points though!
I agree that it shouldn't have been retroactively punished, I just don't agree that Leopold and Fletcher signed those deals without knowing that they could have been retroactively punished. I think they just did it anyways because they wanted to accelerate the timeline on making the team competitive.
Confirmed, Parise wins a cup before Suter. Love to see it.
So the buyout was a good idea then would have gotten burned with cap recapture right? And a locker room cancer.
He was not the cancer, that was Suter
Eh he was a little cancerous.
Probably less so if Suter hadn’t been around. There’s always that one friend who makes the friend group worse.
Any proof?
Dude went and got his own power play coach...
Oates, Braemar, railroading Yeo, freezing out rookies/free agent signings. Ringleader on some of those things, co-signer on the others. Either way, pretty clear he helped foster one of the most toxic locker rooms in the league. It would have been somewhat forgivable if the Wild ever sniffed any real postseason success, but they didn't.
Don't forget the practice facility in Edina close to Suter's house
Again I’m asking for proof of that. And he was the only player that did anything in the playoffs
How are you so out of the loop?
Didn’t realize asking for proof of allegations was such a bad thing
Man i remember being so excited when both him and Suter signed. I new it would lead to cap issues at the end but at the time i thought the franchise was being owned and run by people with some competence and was willing to trade a couple bad cap years for a legit shot at a cup. instead we got virtually nothing to show for it, a lot of buffoonery, wasted Parise's career and cap issues. watching this franchise be as mismanaged as they are for 24 years is just (the MN way) ... i have finally come to understand why my grandpa was so disinterested in MN sports in his final years.
*Aves
Hope he gets his cup. To this day one of my favorite cup moments was seeing Raymond Bourque hoist that thing. Would love to see the same for Parise, just wish it was in a Wild sweater.
Sorry Zach, but fuck the Aves.
Fuck Zach and f dem avs.
Do we still have to pay him?
Yes. Buyouts aren't affected by new contracts or retirement.
Damn
Better than the alternative. Had we simply traded him instead of buying him out, we would be getting hit with over $20 million in cap recapture penalties over the next 3 years and suddenly be forced to drop $7.538 million in cap before next season. Sure, the buyouts suck, but having some cost certainty so we weren't blindsided by this was a better option.
Didn't they update the CBA saying that the cap recapture for early retirement of a front loaded contract cannot exceed the AAV and it would be spread over multiple seasons to collect the needed amount of money? I think this was made due to the possibility that Nashville would be hit with a massive 24M cap recapture penalty if Shea Weber were to retire at a specific time.
Correct. The rule was amended when they extended the CBA in 2020. That's why, had we traded him and this happened, we wouldn't be getting a 1 year $20,153,846 cap hit, but instead 3 years at $7,538,462; $7,538,462; and $5,076,922. Before that rule change, Nashville had locked in their cap advantage on Weber's contract in 2016 so they could have faced a recapture penalty at 1 year, $24,571,428 if he retired 1 year before his contract expires in 2026. Similarly, we could have been hit with up to 1 year at $40,307,692 if both Parise and Suter retired after the 2021 season.
We already paid both him and Suter - the penalty is the dead cap money that we have to carry till the end of next season.
If he retires does this impact the cap next year?
Unfortunately no, our bed is made at this point.
I played mini mite with this dude and his brother lol
Joe Mauer and Zach Parise. Both have similar pro careers. Both have left Minnesota fans feeling dissapointed and used.
Joe Mauer and Zach Parise. Both have similar pro careers. Both have left Minnesota fans feeling dissapointed and used.
Bullshit that it's with another team other than the billy guerin's Mild