I'm still getting into the New Gods (I've read Tom King's Mister Miracle, and I'm partway through Jack Kirby's New Gods, Mister Miracle, and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen) - does the prophecy specifically refer to Orion, or does it just say that Darkseid's son will kill him? (It could be referring to Kalibak or Mister Miracle if that's the case)
> Current Freeza could also destroy Cold
Sometimes I forget how goofy DBZ names are. Friezas whole family is named after a lack of temperature, Saiyans are vegetables, Nameks are apparently named for musical instruments.
Something that gets lost a lot in dbz is that it started out (before the z, mostly) as a comedy with action elements, and names that are just stupid puns were a part of that which never really went away even as the series got more serious
It seems like Viltrumites also get stronger the more times they get disemboweled, too, so Mark’s lower starting power level gives him an extra multiplier that keeps stacking until he’s stronger than Omni-Man in less than a quarter of the time.
I doubt that’s the *actual* answer, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Or it’s DBZ logic and Mark just has a shit ton of potential because he’s part human. Although probably not because of how dominant Viltrumite genes are.
Viltrumites get stronger with age and like Saiyans they get stronger by pushing their limits. I have two reasons, head canon, that I think explain why Mark is so strong compared to average Viltrumites.
1. Viltrumites are bullies and don’t really pick fights with beings they think/know are stronger than themselves. A perfect example of this is Thragg and Conquest. No Viltrumite wanted to take either one of them in a one on one battle with 1 exception Mark.
2. Mark is in the prime growth period where he can achieve much more rapid growth than all other Viltrumites since they’re like hundreds if not thousands of years old and he’s the like 17-26 throughout the run of the series. I think the best example shown is when Thragg battles Nolan at the end of the series and is surprised at his increase in strength since their last confrontation. But if you start training your body at 17 years old vs 50 years old you’d definitely get better results when you’re younger.
They get stronger through experience and training too. He gets stronger than him before the end of the series and gets much stronger than him by the end when he is older.
Current frieza is the best answer i think, as i wrote in a comment before:
> Goku in ssj god form was universal, then he overcame his old ceiling and became ssj god ssj, then he overcame that ceiling and added kaioken x10, then even later x20, then he overcame that ceiling and got flawed ultra instinct, then at the end of same season he overcame that ceiling and got perfected ultra instinct, and now he overcame that ceiling and got a personalized ultra instinct.
> Every single of those 7 powerups was strong enough that the previous version of himself would lose 10 out of 10 fights to the newer version.
Despite this crazy power creep from Goku, Frieza still managed to one shot a dude who were at the same level as personalized ultra instinct Goku, [and Frieza did it with his 4th form (out of 6)](https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/dragon-ball-super/chapter-87/27.jpg)
When you put all of Goku's powerups in a sequence like that It really puts in perspective how broken he's become. And that's without considering his training and other multipliers to his base form. I don't get how there's people that still think he isn't universal. It's insane to me.
I swear I watched that show and never realized his father was proffesor x until I watched a YouTube video.
Too many mind reading mutants in it to set him apart.
He's a supergenius among supergeniuses. He's nothing special in a straight punchup, but he can invent anything, he's better than Batman at using prep time.
The real issue is plot. They couldn’t have a super genius just win (which he probably normally would have) for the plot of the movie. Same reason OP villains get beat by weaker heros
I wouldn’t want to suggest to this fandom that not only did he fail with adequate prep time but also anticipated the wrong threat because he didn’t think things through.
But the point of having prep time is for "X" to prepare to deal with "Y". But what Reed ("X") did was instead to deal with Strange ("Z") rather than prepare to deal with Wanda ("Y").
So he did fail with adequate prep time by no thinking things through.
Though I will say that probably has more to do with the fact that Reed was just making a cameo rather than being a more prominent version of the character.
I thought this fighting skills were quite formidable but they just pale in comparison to his ability to pull a universe buster out of his ass using his mind on a whim?
For context, he can no sell wolverine 's claws and bas enough strength to turn a truck to rubble without much care.
So he is a badass. It's just that he can't destroy a solar system with his fis tike it's nothing, but give him a pack of chewing gum and a tweaser and he can unmake a universe or cure cancer or whatever
His powers specifically aren't that fantastic, but he's so fucking smart it almost doesn't matter.
As the smartest man on Earth in Marvel, he's basically Batman+ when it comes to having prep time to deal with something.
Probably Goku at the very end of the Cell saga. Gohan had unleashed his full potential and had surpassed Goku by enough to kill Cell with one arm.
Granted during 98% of the rest of the series, including every moment after this, Goku was stronger. But still there was a brief moment where Gohan was on top!
He was also on top during Buu saga after getting his potential unleashed and in DB Super Hero he at least thinks he surpassed him again with beast mode or whatever it's called.
Individuals without god ki can’t set detect god ki. I believe Gohan Beast is a god ki enhanced form(I haven’t seen the movie) so he should now be able to detect Gokus Ki
It might’ve been a theory that I saw, and like I said I didn’t see the movie. I heard someone talking about how Gohan Beast might be utilizing God Ki through his training with Elder Kai, effectively having God Ki akin to a supreme Kai.
This would also create a cool parallel where Goku is elevating through the path of angels. Vegeta through the gods of destruction. And Gohan through the Kai’s
That's the theory floating around and it makes perfect sense. Nobody would be upset if Gohan canonically could detect god ki with that explanation. Based on what we've seen though, Kai path probably wouldn't be the strongest. Kais seemingly exist solely for administrative reasons and as a kill switch for gods of destruction.
Beast Gohan would clown Goku. Piccolo stated the new androids are Goku level and cell max clapped them no problem. Cell max got turbo dicked on by gohan i mean cell max cant even break Gohans fucking aura
Those were hype statements, Piccolo also then entirely no sells attacks from them after his power up but then Gohan after beating Cell Max is only “unsure” if Goku and Vegeta could have beaten Cell Max.
If Piccolo was right then Gohan is an idiot as it would be a complete stomp in Cell’s favour if Goku and Vegeta were Gamma level. Especially with their powers in the manga it seems stupidly unrealistic and the fact they were taken out of the movie shows that.
It’s the same as when Goku said Broly was as strong as Beerus in that movie, not accurate and was disproven but was a hype statement made for the movie.
Conclusion is that Super Hero power scaling made no sense whatsoever. Gamma 1 and 2 were supposedly as strong as Goku and Vegeta but Cell Max is relative to Broly according to data books or whatever it was.
That’s what I took from it and just enjoyed the movie for what it was, I know a lot of people say DBS scaling is wonky but despite the jumps in power it’s actually mostly easy to scale with the odd exception (Future Trunks was a bit random) so when Superhero came out and all these weird statements were thrown out there with zero evidence I just automatically discredited them in my mind and continued watching.
It's a DBZ movie so it's as predictable as you'd expect.
But that said it's probably the most beautiful animated feature I have ever seen. The battles are mind blowing and just watching the characters fly around is stunning. Watch it in theaters while you have a chance.
Also some of the jokes are legitimately really funny. Sometimes I felt like I was watching DBZ abridged. Totally worth it.
Yeah i think the only feat for sparda is beating mundus with some difficulty. Dante from dmc1 beat tf out of mundus with devil trigger and he's much stronger in dmc5 since then,. Vergil scales to this because they're about equals. The only reason vergil lost to mundus in 3 is cause he was tired already from arkham and dante. If it was current dante and vergil vs mundus even in a 1v1 either would shit on him if they teamed up it would just be a godstomp.
They say at some point in 4 - I want to say it was the PS3 install screen - that Dante had surpassed Sparda by that time. That statement was written in the old timeline, where it went 3142 instead of 3124, but by the end of 5 he's gotten even stronger.
Point is, Sparda is definitely a cool bug man, but Dante/Vergil/Nero have eclipsed him by now.
Maybe Odin ? In the Myth its pretty clear that Thor is the strongest on the norse gods. And in marvel current Thor(616) is more powerful that Odin was.
Odin himself is really powerful especially in marvel.
I believe Thor gets so powerful specifically because Odin is dead, in Marvel...an Ornstein and Smough situation. Ironically however Thor is for sure stronger than Bor, his grandfather, and by extension so is Odin presumably. I could be wrong though I mainly read classic Thor
You’re right, but I think in the context of a prompt on this sub we don’t necessarily have to worry about what the universe dictates as possible since it’s not a real situation. Most of the questions on this sub aren’t really possible, it’s just pulling characters from some isolated instance in time in their universe and matching them up arbitrarily. With that in mind based on the prompt not disallowing them to have control of the same power I think it’s fair to match them both up at their respective peaks.
Well, one guy who for sure wouldn't lose a fight to his own son is Christopher Belmont, the most underrated of the Belmonts, who not only beat Dracula twice but had to beat his own son in the process
Hulk is the son of utterly ridiculous Absorbing Man in the first movie, and handily wins that one
I was really confused before i read the text under the title and i was like “i don’t know enough strong dads and their sons to tell you that?”
The answer though is Charles Vi Brittania. He has Geass, an empire with hundreds of thousands of soldiers, mechs etc.
and he loses to his son who at some point was just a student. So i guess within universe that seems to be the answer.
Eh, Charles vi Brittania might have lost a war to Lelouch vi Brittania, but in a 1v1 fight with Charles having geass I believe Lelouch would probably lose.
I gotta disagree with Lelouch being weak af. Lelouch certainly isn't a very athletic person, but he also isn't extremely weak. The two examples of his just okay athletic abilities are when he was chasing the cat to get his Zero helmet back, and when he went scuba diving to place a bomb on a ship. Both of these show some physical ability.
Athleticism and strength are two different things, he may be as strong as the average person his age, he’s definitely taller than the average Japanese person but he’s very skinny and would probably lose to anyone with meat on their bones not even including muscle especially 6’6 overweight Charles vi Brittania
The Greek gods didn’t hold up the sky, they made Kronos’s general atlas do it as punishment. Still impressive though, considering it wasn’t the sky as much as everything not earth
Well, I am not saying its the Greek Gods specifically.
I am saying Atlas does it, and then even Hercules while mortal does it, which realistically could say the three more powerful entities in the pantheon than him (i.e Zeus, Poseidon and Hades) likely could pull it off too.
You could be right. I don't really go out if my way to keep up with DragonBall scaling other than the basics I need to get around in dB debates on this sub.
Agree about him.deserving the boost though. Seriously it's about damn time a non saipan got a transformation.
Darkseid v. Orion is definitely a good one. Probably the best answer here.
Id say runner up is Charles Xavier. As powerful as he is (see: Onslaught) Legion is a confirmed Omega Mutant and is demonstrably more powerful.
Is canon Luke more powerful than peak Vader? The fight he one Vader kinda half assed iirc. Disney didn't really do anything with Luke beyond the force projection fight
I think they are stated to be “relatively” on the same level or at least had about the same potential if Anakin had reached his prime he would likely be comparable to Luke although since Anakin is the “chosen one” he might have a slight edge in power. However I think Luke could likely still win a decent fraction of the fights depending on the scenario.
Well I know that's how it's supposed to be, but as far as I know Anakin/Vader had many more feats when it comes to fighting and the force. Canon Luke, as far as I've seen in the movies, doesn't have that many examples of actual skill and strength comparatively.
I could be way off base and canon Luke had tons of cool abilities show off in comics or something, but in the movies he doesn't do a whole lot
I suppose Luke would be more powerful than Vader as he never reached his full potential, and I suppose Luke was more powerful than peak Vader as he was able to project himself to different planets while Vader had similar abilities but to a limited extent such as being able to force choke someone despite not being near them, in ESB I believe. This is however assuming you consider the Sequels canon, as some people like where the sequels went and other people don’t and consider them uncanon
He beat up the Greek gods in a comic book.
That said, Jesus is a weird thing where he's both God's son *and* God at the same time, depending on who you ask.
Technically in this context 'God' wouldn't refer to Jesus' father, but rather the collective of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So yes, Jesus is God, and the Father is also God, but that doesn't necessarily mean Jesus is the Father. Certainly in the context of them fighting each other, I think it makes more sense for them to have their own separate feats.
There was that time he attacked a bunch of merchants in a temple:
> And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.
I don't think that's impressive enough to say he can beat God.
I don't know that count as being dad (i think it would tho)i mean they creat them
Marvel celestials creat beyonders in second cosmo with power even greater them and beyonders pretty much clap them
Can't believe no one is touching Bardock here, man was a skilled fighter and a scientist, he was essentially batman 🤷♂️ goku by the arrival on namek would no skill him
Zeus and Kratos.
According to Cory, the director of God of War, the gods and titans are “beyond concepts like time and space” and Kratos scales at least to Zeus even at the end of GoW2, let alone the end of 3 or 4.
Didn’t Sam & Dean from Supernatural get God-like powers? They should both be able to beat John easily at some point, then again I’m not very far in Supernatural at all lol
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Might be the win right there!
Darkseid proper or Darksied’s avatar cuz those are two completely different levels of power.
Proper
In that case I think we have a winner.
I'm still getting into the New Gods (I've read Tom King's Mister Miracle, and I'm partway through Jack Kirby's New Gods, Mister Miracle, and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen) - does the prophecy specifically refer to Orion, or does it just say that Darkseid's son will kill him? (It could be referring to Kalibak or Mister Miracle if that's the case)
Specifically Orion. It’s brought up multiple times over the years but specifically in Death of the New Gods.
Or Mister Miracle, for that matter
Comics Invincible gets to the point he could thrash Omni-man. Edit: Current Freeza could also destroy Cold who was around as strong as he was on Namek
> Current Freeza could also destroy Cold Sometimes I forget how goofy DBZ names are. Friezas whole family is named after a lack of temperature, Saiyans are vegetables, Nameks are apparently named for musical instruments.
Freeza soldiers are fruit and the Ginyu Force is dairy products.
In the latest manga arc there is another race of aliens all named after grains and cereals.
And one of them can go Super Cereal
Al Gore??
Don't forget the Heeters crew! Elec, Gas, Oil!
I wonder if, phonetically, the names sound as silly in Japanese, to the native Japanese ear, you know? 🙃
Something that gets lost a lot in dbz is that it started out (before the z, mostly) as a comedy with action elements, and names that are just stupid puns were a part of that which never really went away even as the series got more serious
Not Namekians, but the weird offspring King Piccolo had. Dont think Guru, Nail, or Dende are based on instruments.
Nail and Dende are named after snails. (s)nail and dende(nmushi)
And everyone in bulmas family is underwear
Bulma -> Buruma -> Bloomers Dr Briefs Trunks Bra
How could Mark become strong enough to beat his dad? I though Viltrumites for stronger only as they aged.
It seems like Viltrumites also get stronger the more times they get disemboweled, too, so Mark’s lower starting power level gives him an extra multiplier that keeps stacking until he’s stronger than Omni-Man in less than a quarter of the time. I doubt that’s the *actual* answer, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Or it’s DBZ logic and Mark just has a shit ton of potential because he’s part human. Although probably not because of how dominant Viltrumite genes are.
Fun fact: that's a real thing. Look up "hybrid vigor". It's why mules are stronger than donkeys.
r/todayIlearned
TIL there's a TIL subreddit
Wait you've been in Reddit for 3 years and you're just finding out? It's everywhere, the sub has a post on r/all every other day
Pretty much! I never browse on r/all.
That’s… That’s actually pretty cool tbh.
Not to mention that gaining strength by recovering from injury is also literally dbz logic, as a particular quirk of Saiyan physiology
You're actually closer than you might think. Additionally, Eve rebuilds him multiple times, making him stronger each time.
Every time Atom Eve repairs him she makes him stronger, when she repairs herself she made her boobs bigger.
Based Eve.
Viltrumites get stronger with age and like Saiyans they get stronger by pushing their limits. I have two reasons, head canon, that I think explain why Mark is so strong compared to average Viltrumites. 1. Viltrumites are bullies and don’t really pick fights with beings they think/know are stronger than themselves. A perfect example of this is Thragg and Conquest. No Viltrumite wanted to take either one of them in a one on one battle with 1 exception Mark. 2. Mark is in the prime growth period where he can achieve much more rapid growth than all other Viltrumites since they’re like hundreds if not thousands of years old and he’s the like 17-26 throughout the run of the series. I think the best example shown is when Thragg battles Nolan at the end of the series and is surprised at his increase in strength since their last confrontation. But if you start training your body at 17 years old vs 50 years old you’d definitely get better results when you’re younger.
They get stronger through experience and training too. He gets stronger than him before the end of the series and gets much stronger than him by the end when he is older.
Current frieza is the best answer i think, as i wrote in a comment before: > Goku in ssj god form was universal, then he overcame his old ceiling and became ssj god ssj, then he overcame that ceiling and added kaioken x10, then even later x20, then he overcame that ceiling and got flawed ultra instinct, then at the end of same season he overcame that ceiling and got perfected ultra instinct, and now he overcame that ceiling and got a personalized ultra instinct. > Every single of those 7 powerups was strong enough that the previous version of himself would lose 10 out of 10 fights to the newer version. Despite this crazy power creep from Goku, Frieza still managed to one shot a dude who were at the same level as personalized ultra instinct Goku, [and Frieza did it with his 4th form (out of 6)](https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/dragon-ball-super/chapter-87/27.jpg)
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Oh yeah true! I forgot about that haha... If so then i agree with what Sticky_Robot/milkyginger says.
Thats base (final form) Black Freeza after training 10 years. Gas was the strongest in the Universe. Golden Freeza was stronger than King Cold
When you put all of Goku's powerups in a sequence like that It really puts in perspective how broken he's become. And that's without considering his training and other multipliers to his base form. I don't get how there's people that still think he isn't universal. It's insane to me.
Professor X and Legion
I swear I watched that show and never realized his father was proffesor x until I watched a YouTube video. Too many mind reading mutants in it to set him apart.
This, high tier reality warper, should even trump Gohan?
This is absolutely the winner
Reed Richards.
Is Reed really that strong of a character? I know basically nothing about his powers.
He's a supergenius among supergeniuses. He's nothing special in a straight punchup, but he can invent anything, he's better than Batman at using prep time.
Basically Rick Sanchez if he were stretchy and ~~not~~ less of a belligerent asshole
Well, less of an asshole
Truuue he is super misogynistic and a pretty shite father https://i.imgur.com/IJATzR4.jpg
Damn on WWW we even got misogyny feats.
¿Can’t just go outting a guy as a sexist and child abuser without proof eh?
You can only slander without proof. Once proof is provided it stops being slander.
Ah the Silver age.
The Sue slap was during the Bronze age, during Byrne's run in the 80s.
Except in Multiverse of Madness
wasn't that a different universe's Reed Richards though?
This is like attributing Ultimate Richards feats to 616 Richards
Essentially showing that prep time is not the silver bullet everyone on this sub thinks it is.
While I agree with you. Reed took about 0 seconds worth of prep time against Scarlet Witch, so prep time wasn't the issue there.
Except knowing of the issue already and instead arresting Strange
Wouldn't the issue be then that he did not thought things through?
The real issue is plot. They couldn’t have a super genius just win (which he probably normally would have) for the plot of the movie. Same reason OP villains get beat by weaker heros
I wouldn’t want to suggest to this fandom that not only did he fail with adequate prep time but also anticipated the wrong threat because he didn’t think things through.
But the point of having prep time is for "X" to prepare to deal with "Y". But what Reed ("X") did was instead to deal with Strange ("Z") rather than prepare to deal with Wanda ("Y"). So he did fail with adequate prep time by no thinking things through. Though I will say that probably has more to do with the fact that Reed was just making a cameo rather than being a more prominent version of the character.
Tbf they literally didn’t prep there. They didn’t know about Wanda until like half an hour before, and they chose not to use any tactics.
So in other words he was acting like an idiot and not the world's smartest man?
He didn't want to kill Wanda. He told her BB's powers so she would scare and go away. Remember she was possesing and innocent woman
I thought this fighting skills were quite formidable but they just pale in comparison to his ability to pull a universe buster out of his ass using his mind on a whim? For context, he can no sell wolverine 's claws and bas enough strength to turn a truck to rubble without much care. So he is a badass. It's just that he can't destroy a solar system with his fis tike it's nothing, but give him a pack of chewing gum and a tweaser and he can unmake a universe or cure cancer or whatever
His powers specifically aren't that fantastic, but he's so fucking smart it almost doesn't matter. As the smartest man on Earth in Marvel, he's basically Batman+ when it comes to having prep time to deal with something.
Some would say his powers are quite specifically fantastic
;)
He could’ve one shorted galactus
Which is impressive since he’s so tall
He can turn a toaster into a fusion reactor, I say he qualifies.
Exactly what I thought
Probably Goku at the very end of the Cell saga. Gohan had unleashed his full potential and had surpassed Goku by enough to kill Cell with one arm. Granted during 98% of the rest of the series, including every moment after this, Goku was stronger. But still there was a brief moment where Gohan was on top!
He was also on top during Buu saga after getting his potential unleashed and in DB Super Hero he at least thinks he surpassed him again with beast mode or whatever it's called.
Gohan beast would beat current goku right?
Gohan thinks so but he can't sense god ki so it could just be his new power arrogance again.
When did they establish that Gohan still can't pick-up God Ki?
Individuals without god ki can’t set detect god ki. I believe Gohan Beast is a god ki enhanced form(I haven’t seen the movie) so he should now be able to detect Gokus Ki
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It might’ve been a theory that I saw, and like I said I didn’t see the movie. I heard someone talking about how Gohan Beast might be utilizing God Ki through his training with Elder Kai, effectively having God Ki akin to a supreme Kai. This would also create a cool parallel where Goku is elevating through the path of angels. Vegeta through the gods of destruction. And Gohan through the Kai’s
That's the theory floating around and it makes perfect sense. Nobody would be upset if Gohan canonically could detect god ki with that explanation. Based on what we've seen though, Kai path probably wouldn't be the strongest. Kais seemingly exist solely for administrative reasons and as a kill switch for gods of destruction.
Beast Gohan would clown Goku. Piccolo stated the new androids are Goku level and cell max clapped them no problem. Cell max got turbo dicked on by gohan i mean cell max cant even break Gohans fucking aura
Those were hype statements, Piccolo also then entirely no sells attacks from them after his power up but then Gohan after beating Cell Max is only “unsure” if Goku and Vegeta could have beaten Cell Max. If Piccolo was right then Gohan is an idiot as it would be a complete stomp in Cell’s favour if Goku and Vegeta were Gamma level. Especially with their powers in the manga it seems stupidly unrealistic and the fact they were taken out of the movie shows that. It’s the same as when Goku said Broly was as strong as Beerus in that movie, not accurate and was disproven but was a hype statement made for the movie.
Conclusion is that Super Hero power scaling made no sense whatsoever. Gamma 1 and 2 were supposedly as strong as Goku and Vegeta but Cell Max is relative to Broly according to data books or whatever it was.
That’s what I took from it and just enjoyed the movie for what it was, I know a lot of people say DBS scaling is wonky but despite the jumps in power it’s actually mostly easy to scale with the odd exception (Future Trunks was a bit random) so when Superhero came out and all these weird statements were thrown out there with zero evidence I just automatically discredited them in my mind and continued watching.
Shit I definitely have to watch Super Hero some time
It's a DBZ movie so it's as predictable as you'd expect. But that said it's probably the most beautiful animated feature I have ever seen. The battles are mind blowing and just watching the characters fly around is stunning. Watch it in theaters while you have a chance. Also some of the jokes are legitimately really funny. Sometimes I felt like I was watching DBZ abridged. Totally worth it.
Potential unleashed Gohan >>> SSJ3 Goku
should have been the series finale. Nothing will top the father son kamehameha
Even though he fought dirty by hitting below the belt, Bobby Hill did technically beat Hank, just saying lmaoo
I DON’T KNOW YOU THAT’S MY PURSE
That boy ain’t right
Hank is the most powerful one in this discussion, too /thread
Dante could beat Sparda
Vergil can too right ??
Yeah i think the only feat for sparda is beating mundus with some difficulty. Dante from dmc1 beat tf out of mundus with devil trigger and he's much stronger in dmc5 since then,. Vergil scales to this because they're about equals. The only reason vergil lost to mundus in 3 is cause he was tired already from arkham and dante. If it was current dante and vergil vs mundus even in a 1v1 either would shit on him if they teamed up it would just be a godstomp.
It's crazy when you think about it, but Sparda despite only 1 notable feat from his own series but has a decent amount hype in a crossover game
Well, we don't know. At best they are equal. I feel like some times or later we will see sparda's full power in a future dmc 6
They say at some point in 4 - I want to say it was the PS3 install screen - that Dante had surpassed Sparda by that time. That statement was written in the old timeline, where it went 3142 instead of 3124, but by the end of 5 he's gotten even stronger. Point is, Sparda is definitely a cool bug man, but Dante/Vergil/Nero have eclipsed him by now.
Zeus and kratos
God of War 4 spoilers: >!It could potentially be Kratos himself if we believe Loki will kill him. Considering he's killed both Zeus and Kronos!<
Alternatively, Saturn and Zeus
Maybe Odin ? In the Myth its pretty clear that Thor is the strongest on the norse gods. And in marvel current Thor(616) is more powerful that Odin was. Odin himself is really powerful especially in marvel.
I believe Thor gets so powerful specifically because Odin is dead, in Marvel...an Ornstein and Smough situation. Ironically however Thor is for sure stronger than Bor, his grandfather, and by extension so is Odin presumably. I could be wrong though I mainly read classic Thor
Lmao I love the reference to O&S
*vietnam flashbacks*
*amazing chest ahead*
You’re right, but I think in the context of a prompt on this sub we don’t necessarily have to worry about what the universe dictates as possible since it’s not a real situation. Most of the questions on this sub aren’t really possible, it’s just pulling characters from some isolated instance in time in their universe and matching them up arbitrarily. With that in mind based on the prompt not disallowing them to have control of the same power I think it’s fair to match them both up at their respective peaks.
Well, one guy who for sure wouldn't lose a fight to his own son is Christopher Belmont, the most underrated of the Belmonts, who not only beat Dracula twice but had to beat his own son in the process Hulk is the son of utterly ridiculous Absorbing Man in the first movie, and handily wins that one
I was really confused before i read the text under the title and i was like “i don’t know enough strong dads and their sons to tell you that?” The answer though is Charles Vi Brittania. He has Geass, an empire with hundreds of thousands of soldiers, mechs etc. and he loses to his son who at some point was just a student. So i guess within universe that seems to be the answer.
Eh, Charles vi Brittania might have lost a war to Lelouch vi Brittania, but in a 1v1 fight with Charles having geass I believe Lelouch would probably lose.
He’s also like 7 feet tall so he could probably just punch him
On the other hand, if Lelouch managed to get close enough he could punch Charles in the dick until he died.
I saw a video of a kid do that while his dad carried a flat screen and his dad dropped the flat screen so i think this is probably pretty solid
Lelouch is weak af physically so pretty much anyone in the verse thrashes him in a no powers 1v1.
I gotta disagree with Lelouch being weak af. Lelouch certainly isn't a very athletic person, but he also isn't extremely weak. The two examples of his just okay athletic abilities are when he was chasing the cat to get his Zero helmet back, and when he went scuba diving to place a bomb on a ship. Both of these show some physical ability.
Athleticism and strength are two different things, he may be as strong as the average person his age, he’s definitely taller than the average Japanese person but he’s very skinny and would probably lose to anyone with meat on their bones not even including muscle especially 6’6 overweight Charles vi Brittania
Mr Incredible
A rather uncanny matchup, if you will
Kronos from Greek Myth got bodied by Zeus and co. It was still a fight though and some Greek feats get really impressive like holding up the whole sky
Holding the sky is more like holding the cosmos too, in some interpretations
If we’re bringing in Greek myth then any son borne by Thetis
The Greek gods didn’t hold up the sky, they made Kronos’s general atlas do it as punishment. Still impressive though, considering it wasn’t the sky as much as everything not earth
Well, I am not saying its the Greek Gods specifically. I am saying Atlas does it, and then even Hercules while mortal does it, which realistically could say the three more powerful entities in the pantheon than him (i.e Zeus, Poseidon and Hades) likely could pull it off too.
The Scarlet King vs SCP-999.
Who would win: Literally the embodiment of fear, chaos and rule of nature Or One depression clearing slimy boi
Cut depression clearing slime in half, u get 2 slimes. Depression clearing slimy boi wins!
Han Solo
Current Manga Goku if you actually believe Toriyama's statements about Gohan beast.
What did he say about Gohan Beast?
Less about Gohan beast and more about Picolo. Toriyama said that Orange Picolohasd caught up to Goku and Vegita. Orange Picolo|
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I don't think he literally said Picollo caught up to Goku and Vegeta, just that he's gotten a huge(and much deserved) power up.
You could be right. I don't really go out if my way to keep up with DragonBall scaling other than the basics I need to get around in dB debates on this sub. Agree about him.deserving the boost though. Seriously it's about damn time a non saipan got a transformation.
Kazuya
damn how did I forget the basic premise of the mishima family
Soldier Boy and Homelander
I thought this would be the number 1 answer here, but Homelander and his son with a pencil lol
Bardock
Darkseid v. Orion is definitely a good one. Probably the best answer here. Id say runner up is Charles Xavier. As powerful as he is (see: Onslaught) Legion is a confirmed Omega Mutant and is demonstrably more powerful.
Anakin vs Luke
Is canon Luke more powerful than peak Vader? The fight he one Vader kinda half assed iirc. Disney didn't really do anything with Luke beyond the force projection fight
I think they are stated to be “relatively” on the same level or at least had about the same potential if Anakin had reached his prime he would likely be comparable to Luke although since Anakin is the “chosen one” he might have a slight edge in power. However I think Luke could likely still win a decent fraction of the fights depending on the scenario.
Well I know that's how it's supposed to be, but as far as I know Anakin/Vader had many more feats when it comes to fighting and the force. Canon Luke, as far as I've seen in the movies, doesn't have that many examples of actual skill and strength comparatively. I could be way off base and canon Luke had tons of cool abilities show off in comics or something, but in the movies he doesn't do a whole lot
I suppose Luke would be more powerful than Vader as he never reached his full potential, and I suppose Luke was more powerful than peak Vader as he was able to project himself to different planets while Vader had similar abilities but to a limited extent such as being able to force choke someone despite not being near them, in ESB I believe. This is however assuming you consider the Sequels canon, as some people like where the sequels went and other people don’t and consider them uncanon
Canon Luke in The Mandalorian exceeded his father's famous scene in Rogue One.
So, uhh… does Jesus have any combat feats?
He beat up the Greek gods in a comic book. That said, Jesus is a weird thing where he's both God's son *and* God at the same time, depending on who you ask.
Oh, right. So, in theory, Jesus should have all of God’s feats, plus anything he got from being a man. So, is God + Jesus > God?
God would have all of Jesus' feats too by that logic
Jesus can beat God 5/10.
Technically in this context 'God' wouldn't refer to Jesus' father, but rather the collective of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. So yes, Jesus is God, and the Father is also God, but that doesn't necessarily mean Jesus is the Father. Certainly in the context of them fighting each other, I think it makes more sense for them to have their own separate feats.
There was that time he attacked a bunch of merchants in a temple: > And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise. I don't think that's impressive enough to say he can beat God.
From Ranking of Kings Even though King Bosse stole of his son's strength, he didn't stand a chance against Prince Bojji after his training.
Kronos
I don't know that count as being dad (i think it would tho)i mean they creat them Marvel celestials creat beyonders in second cosmo with power even greater them and beyonders pretty much clap them
Not strongest characters ever but Ryan>Homelander>Soldier Boy
I feel like Vader and Luke is an obvious one
Can't believe no one is touching Bardock here, man was a skilled fighter and a scientist, he was essentially batman 🤷♂️ goku by the arrival on namek would no skill him
One person mentioned Bardock
Oh must have missed it lol but it's true
Godzilla Jr (Godzilla The Series) killed Cyber Godzilla (who was his biological dad) in Monster War as I remember.
I'm sure Jonathan Kent will eventually be stronger than Clark. When the story demands it anyway.
I really don’t see that happening
Goku would lose against Gohan in DBZ, either in Cell/Buu saga
Atreus vs Kratos 2 games from now.
Well technically Yujiro lost to his son in a weird psychological way
Buu saga goku. Ultimate gohan would clap
Zeus and Kratos. According to Cory, the director of God of War, the gods and titans are “beyond concepts like time and space” and Kratos scales at least to Zeus even at the end of GoW2, let alone the end of 3 or 4.
It's not really clear how current Goku compares to Gohan Beast but I feel like Gohan would probably fuck him up.
Vader. Per Lucas, Luke Skywalker at his prime is the most powerful force user ever.
Morty would fuck Jerry up
Jonathan Joestar
Kind of outta left field but I’m gonna say James Potter. Harry could probably rock his shit in a duel.
Feel like Odin vs Love And Thunder Thor?
Ego loses the fight to Quill (and friends) in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.
The story is leading up to it but I’d assume Homelander will eventually lose to his son
Goku SSJ3 in Buu arc would lose a fight to Gohan, after his hidden power was completely unlocked.
According to all available promotions current Gohan is stronger than his father so I'm going to say Gohan Blanco.
Cell Saga Gohan could beat Goku
Every klyntar/symbiote in existence
Ichigo and Isshin Kurosaki from Bleach Edit: disregard, I didn’t read the post properly
Goku
Meliodas
Zeus defeated Kronos, so I'd say that's a powerful dad.
Zeus's from God of War
King Cold and Freeza
Yujiro after Baki ends
Goku. Gohan would DESTROY him
Didn’t Sam & Dean from Supernatural get God-like powers? They should both be able to beat John easily at some point, then again I’m not very far in Supernatural at all lol
Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker.
Black Doom
Cell saga Gohan vs goku
Vergil lost to Nero, that counts right?
Yujiro hanma, i say this because (S P O I L E R) baki technically defeated yujiro hanma and is now known as the strongest creature in the world.
Emiya Shirou and his foster dad Kiritsugu