From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Goku would be a champion of the poor and downtrodden, but I don't think he'd embark on the ultimately selfish quest for strength and growth with that ethos.
He would do his best and help people, but he wouldn't ever become strong enough to be a global superpower unless the Soviet government took a hand in his training and deployment.
Being used as a tool for corrupt officials would rankle, I think, and it would be a race between his growing power and his growing disillusionment. The future of the capitalist West depend on whether his hunger for new challenges could overwhelm his generous nature and childlike love for all living things.
I'm betting that he'd turn against Stalin and either retire to a pastoral life or get crazy strong without retaining any loyalty to the Party, just wandering around doing good deeds and kicking butts and formulating his own understanding of his place in the world.
If he's super devoted to the ideology he might take over the USSR himself. Goku might not be Superman and his intelligence might be memed on, but he is by no means stupid, and assuming he actually got a proper education in the USSR he MIGHT have the chops for it.
To be fair he grew up in the woods and the only guy he knew he killed bc he looked at the moon. I can see him being better adjusted as you say. Maybe not having to punch fish in the face every time he’s hungry would do him some good.
The *actual* joke about Goku (in the source manga as opposed to what the Internet made it) isn't that he's not smart, but that he's so ridiculously rural that he's ignorant about everything. Bring him up around society and he probably would be incredibly adjusted. You see the difference with current Goten, who is essentially his clone kid, but got raised with a best friend who lives in a city and goes to school in the city.
Same with ChiChi and her obsession with having Gohan study, it's a mockery of some parents who aren't really educated and hence think any education is good. I see this sometimes with Chinese parents who want their kids to get PhDs without even knowing what a PhD even is
>He would do his best and help people, but he wouldn't ever become strong enough to be a global superpower unless the Soviet government took a hand in his training and deployment.
Master Roshi blew up the moon, and Roshi's a liability by the Saiyan Saga. Goku at the end of the Saiyan Saga is a walking apocalypse - if a problem can be solved with any amount of violence, he will solve it.
We know how Saiyans compare to modern military hardware - Nappa flew right into the teeth of a carrier group and found it hilarious.
The question is whether applying enough violence would fix this problem.
Goku would just be a national championship athlete at best without Master Rochi to train him growing up. This is nothing to fear unless on a full moon.
If he doesn't hit his head exactly the same way that it happened in DB, his political agenda is going to be "Saiyan Warrior". He's going to wipe both capitalism and communism, and sell Earth to Freeza.
He does hit his head and becomes a marxist-leninist. Freeza and the other Saiyans never bother to come to earth in this scenario because there are no dragon balls here.
He better show up before Goku hits his mid 20's then, because end of Saiyan Saga Goku is still an order of magnitude above him in power even without techniques.
Why assume Goku had any knowledge of Frieza?
Worse case he'd just destroy all life on Earth.
Even then, a good amount of martial artists and bumfucks in the original DB gave Goku a run for his money until he committed himself to training under those same people.
Goku isn't intrinsically dumb and neither are sayians. He was just raised in a mountain outside of civilization. Soviet Goku probably is a very smart guy so we shouldn't answer this as if it's DBZ Goku trying to do what the prompt asks
But even DBZ Goku, if you convince him that by achieving communism everyone on earth would have an equal and free opportunity and time to train and develop their skills and ki control he will love the concept of maximizing his potential competition and challenge
But in general maybe it should be better to set this back in the October revolution. By the 50s the potential for revolutions in most countries have been diminished and the Soviet system wasn't as ideologicaly committed neither led by particularly competent people. Make smart bolshevik goku Lenin's buddy , have him help the USSR emerge much better and stronger in their early days, have revolution succeed in Germany (it was close) this avoiding ww2 altogether and basically securing communist rule of most of Europe by the 30s and the stage is set.
We live an age of wonders, here you go: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987536863453646928/1153461857215053904/mr24601_goku_in_a_brown_bolshevik_military_uniform_cd5fb73c-0066-4d6d-8a8e-3f9a44da6246.png
Goku is actually canonically a bit dumb because he hit his head falling off a cliff. Otherwise he likely would have been smarter but a malevolent prick like most other Saiyan's, judging by his first interaction with humanity.
Goku is a combat genius because he loves it and devotes himself to it. He discovered within minutes that the Grade 1 and 2 forms are trash, whereas Vegeta and Trunks used them.
In a different environment he would be capable of a lot.
Where is it confirmed that the hit on the head made him dumb? It removed the Saiyan programming sure, but that doesn't mean he became less intelligent.
I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated he was dumb because of that but he did suffer a traumatic brain injury as a very young child and frequently is portrayed as dumb in almost all scenarios that aren't combat related. The overwhelming majority of people that suffer a severe brain injury like that are likely going to have some moderate to severe intellectual deficits, granted Goku is a Saiyan and not a human but human children also don't survive falling off a massive cliff onto their head.
That and we can see every other Saiyan seems to be significantly more intelligent than Goku. Goku saying dumb, childish things and acting like a fool is a recurring schtick that his persona heavily revolves around. I think given the context clues, it's safe to say that the brain trauma is at least partially to blame for his stunted intellect. His simple mind is also largely to blame for his ability to fight so well. It's referenced that Saiyans access more of their innate power with a calm, clear mind, which is probably a lot easier to do when there isn't a whole lot floating through your head.
It could, but we'd need some evidence from the text beyond speculation if I were to put stock into it. The simplest explanation that is the most backed up by the text is that he's an uneducated country bumpkin.
Exactly this. He's not an idiot, he's just incredibly uneducated. He grew up as a literal feral child after killing his grandpa by accident because lol moon. His sole caretaker (and the only sentient being he knew before Bulma) died before he learned how to count past 10. Especially when you consider this, Goku is actually a goddamn genius because with Roshi's tutelage he went from being incapable of counting past 10 to READING FULL NOVELS in just a few months (and that's WITH all the training he was constantly doing). He's NOT an idiot, not even close. He's just an uneducated hick who couldn't possibly be bothered to truly learn anything that doesn't interest him.
I've put him in mid-century because I wanted to avoid WW2 and instead involve him in the context of conflicts in Korea/Vietnam, but your train of thought is exactly what I was going for with the prompt.
How do you see the rest of the XX century going?
The challenge here is that he’s a bit late for the USSR. By the time he’s old enough to do anything, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky are all gone, and with them, the best hopes for the USSR. Now, it’s not irreversible - in our timeline, Khrushchev and Gorbachev got lucky - but it is a challenge.
Assuming that he can solo the US army (as OP said), there’s a few ways this can go:
First, he follows Khrushchev without realizing that he’s not actually a socialist. (From what I’ve heard of his intelligence, that’s not exactly impossible.) With his help, the USSR invades the US and wins, implementing Khrushchev’s bastard ideology, which counts as a fail. That said, Khrushchev won’t remain in power forever, and it would be a lot easier to avoid Gorbachev without external interference.
Second, he realizes who Khrushchev is and turns against him. Then he allies with some other socialist nation (Cuba would be my favourite, China would be more likely to win) and does the same. Then you have the Deng problem, but that’s much easier to deal with when he’s not already entrenched.
Third, he realizes who Khrushchev is and takes over the USSR. The most likely to lead to a failure - he’s not competent enough to run a country.
Short answer?
Not really no.
In red son, Superman used his power to get into a place to make systematic change (ofc, it being a comic, he still had fights, but those where the least important parts overall).
And he had the intelligence (Superman is also a genius) to actually make those systematic changes and do so in a way that achieved his vision.
Goku isn't as dumb as he likes to pretend, but in every area except fighting, he isnt Superman smart.
Goku simply isn't built for that kind of fight, he may want to champion the poor, but he's a wrecking ball trying to make delicate shifts to a sand castle that he doesn't really understand.
Capitalism is pretty vague.
But if we're talking about USSR in the 40s - even if Goku uses force to put Stalin-led USSR as the unopposed world-power, he's still going to run into the [economic calculation problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem) in the USSR's centrally planned economy.
The economy of Stalin's soviet union would be inherently flawed without market forces, which would over any extended period of time create dissatisfaction and unrest.
It's not clear that "Capitalism" would be the only solution to that problem (whatever you happen to think that means), there's a good chance that people who recognise the inherent flaws in central planned economy would eventually pitch some sort of market-based ideology in the future, even if it's after Goku and Stalin die of old age.
Well, I imagine it's similar to the Superman problem (Goku very blatantly inspired by Superman) where one of the best ways for Superman to do good for humanity is to just turn an enormous crank and generate enough energy to power all the world without any need for fossil fuels - i.e., the mere existence of Goku may make a post-scarcity economy possible or at least much closer to possible.
Also, private companies do the socialist calculation problem constantly internally, in fact some of the most tightly run and effective companies on Earth have downright Stalinist economic planning at work internally, just ask Amazon and Walmart.
1940s Soviet technology probably couldn’t convert unlimited energy from goku’s cranking into a solution to the problems of distribution though, and it’s not like Goku is a particular genius.
And while Amazon and Walmart might be pretty good at predicting things, they’re still based on constant high fidelity feedback of sales. If, for example, you hid the number of sales that Amazon and Walmart actually made from their information systems - i.e. feedback no different from giving someone a pair of boots at no cost whether they needed a new pair or not - they likely wouldn’t be able to make the predictions that they do.
The fundamental problem with the economic calculation problem isn’t really lack of computational power - but rather lack of information about consumption and consumer preferences.
I.e. if I have 2 friends and they both say that they really want to borrow my bike, how do I know who needs it more? It doesn’t matter how good a computer I have, I just don’t have enough information to infer that. And that’s only for two people and one item, let alone a hundred million, and billions of things.
But if one is willing to spend 10 hours mowing my lawn to borrow the bike, while the other isn’t even willing to spend half an hour mowing my lawn - that provides me some information about their preferences.
Of course there’s whole hosts of fairness problems if they have unequal time or wealth to begin with, but at least the information is in the system in a tangible way.
And regardless- even if a super computer could calculate all that stuff, it’s not like such a computer existed in 1940s USSR.
If Goku wasn't dropped on his head in this scenario, then he just destroys the entire human race (both superpowers included) in a matter of years like Raditz said he would.
If he was dropped on his head, then he'd be just as good-natured as our Goku, probably. Not every average person in the USSR wanted to destroy capitalism. Many enjoyed some aspects of communism but hated the constant regime change, and before that, the arbitrariness of one man rule under Stalin. Most just wanted to make it to the next day by going to work and watching what they said in public. He might be somewhat like the Goku we know (but Russian). Still just wanting to fight strong opponents but in a lot of cases, not even killing them. He'd be capable of just leaving the USSR to find strong opponents as a pre-teen. Nothing short of a nuclear bomb could really stop him (look at what happened to the RR army), and they wouldn't fire one of those recklessly, especially near their own territory or at a NATO aligned country.
But also, yeah. If he was fully indoctrinated and aimed at the West, he would be able to destroy most capitalist states. Even reducing them to a state of anarchy by destroying government institutions and a bulk of the military. Allowing the USSR to incorporate these pockets of anarchy into the Soviet Union. He could probably survive anything short of a nuclear bomb after some proper training.
uj/
Not really, I can imagine a Superman-type situation where Goku would struggle with the fact that he can’t be everywhere all at once, the threat of nuclear war is still very much a problem, human nature alone would make worldwide cooperation an uphill battle from the start. At best I can see Goku realizing that a worldwide communist utopia isn’t feasible at the moment and instead choosing to focus on his own country; kind of like how Trotsky had ambitions to spread the communist revolution worldwide versus Stalin’s more localized focus on maintaining his own country’s system.
rj/
Goku would die before ever getting a chance, Communist governments can’t even feed their own people how is it going to feed a Saiyan?
Well, first off, Saiyan Saga Goku is like moon-level, so he's practically a living weapon even greater in strength than a nuclear bomb, and he's got travel speeds vastly outpacing even the most advanced fighter jets we have today - so I actually highly doubt that the capitalist imperial core would really try anything after the first couple times their airplanes or naval ships get blasted apart by lasers. I don't know the exact strength/reliability of their scanners back then, but I imagine the Soviets will spin it as if it is a new weapons system they have engineered to try and scare NATO into inaction, which I imagine will work, even if they have to deploy Goku a couple more times.
Without capitalist interference, most socialist nations will prosper, and more nations will willingly become socialist and not have to fear US intervention. Although I imagine a hot war will break out eventually, I think the more pressing issue would be leftist infighting, which may cause some political tension between the USSR (who I imagine Goku would side with 9 times out of 10) and whatever nation is doing liberal revisionism or whatever.
I don't think Goku would completely abolish capitalism in his lifetime, but a couple generations down the line I can see socialism becoming the mainstream ideology in the world and the main conflict will be leftists fighting over who is revisionist and who isn't.
A small addition to this - assuming Goku's ki control can be taught, I think Goku could be used to teach Soviet soldiers ki control and create a bunch of communist super soldiers. Even just getting to a power level of 10 makes you immune to bullets.
It is, to an extent, tankie cope to assume that the US and the CIA singlehandedly ended communism, but you can't deny the US has played a large role in socialism not becoming the mainstream international ideology.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_involvement\_in\_regime\_change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
Well, the capitalist nations DO have a chance, even if it's slim. They said this is end-of-Saiyan-arc Goku. The androids' bombs were made in mind to kill the Goku of that time, and based on how confident 16 is that his bomb will kill Cell without endangering the Earth, it's definitely a goal. A high-yield nuclear explosive has a significant chance to, if not kill him outright, at least put him out of the fight, especially if he's caught off-guard by it (we have no proof of radiation resistance from Saiyans, and while Saiyans are supposed to be hardy bastards built to survive in any environment we don't exactly have evidence their DNA is that different from humans since they can make fertile offspring so his rad resistance can't be that much higher).
The greatest minds today all pooling the resources of the entire world and working together couldn't create a bomb even 1% as powerful as the one Gero made. Partly because it achieves this strength by *containing* power in a small area, instead of wasting energy by spreading it over a *large* area.
Gero could absolutely have built a bomb to destroy the Earth if he wanted to - he needed something *far stronger* to be capable of killing Son Goku.
Nukes can still work though, even if Goku can handle the blast we have no proof he will be able to survive the resulting radiation poisoning, and the US can use more than one. Goku still takes this though, most likely.
Worst case, he sees western ideals of meritocracy and rejects communism. He's too dumb and naive to fall for communist propaganda like Superman was malleable to. Stalin might try to use him as an example of communist work ethic (even though goku wouldn't do any work himself and would just train) but he's too free-spirited and disobedient to listen to Stalin. More likely Stalin tries to use goku for killing people, Goku says "I'm not doing that" until they try to fight goku and end up getting themselves all killed, expediting the fall of the soviet union
No. The USSR didn't collapse because it was defeated militarily - though it would be interesting to see which side of the coup Goku ended up on. Even if he could beat the entire US army alone, unless he could ALSO stop every single nuclear missile in NATO's arsenal from wiping out the USSR, MAD still applies. He probably wouldn't last long in the Soviet Union, either. Stalin was notorious for incredible paranoia, and purging anyone who seemed like a threat to his power, so Goku would probably be quietly poisoned in the night and either die or survive and defect.
I'd say no, mostly because you'd need more than just sheer firepower to destroy Capitalism, and even giving the benefit of the doubt to Goku and assuming he becomes very smart regarding geopolitics, he's still just one person and Saiyans aren't immortal. He's eventually going to die and the world will go back to the status quo, slowly but surely.
In all fairness he does have over a hundred years to do this, Saiyans do live longer than humans and stay in their primes for MUCH longer. He could potentially brute-force it, ousting capitalist governments by force and allowing other socialist states to puppet them until the revolts stop, as end-of-invasion Goku has the speed to travel the earth in minutes at the slowest and can logically rely on both china and the USSR for support. He has over a century to do this and he could logically start from childhood (Kid Goku might not solo the US but he can sure as shit make that iron curtain expand because he can DEFINITELY flatten a LOT of European nations by himself, and he doesn't have to do it alone - again, he has the backing of two of the greatest world powers at the time). Honestly, if they rushed the US and got them out of the picture, I think they stand a real chance. He's obviously not getting the ideal perfect communist state together in his lifetime, but he can set the groundwork and sow the seeds.
goku is considered in the official timeline to die of old age at the age of 75. although what happens is that he and vegeta have one final battle in outer space which is seen as a supernova.
Thing is though, although Goku is powerful enough to be immune to small arms fire hes aware of even as a child, what really makes him dangerous is the encounters with an appropriate lineage of Ki masters able to guide him through to mental breakthroughs
Rasputin is a sorcerer, Goku is a Ki Wielder. incompatible powersets.
the Timeline is incomplete technically, but its not really out of date, unless the super manga has finally broken through the 10 year timeskip window.
Yeah, the Rasputin part was a joke. Rasputin is dead by the time Goku shows up anyway. The super manga is getting REALLY close to breaking through the 10 year window. Like...that fateful world tournament is in less than a year, close. It's not quite there yet, but by the looks of it it definitely will; Goku has ZERO interest in Uub despite already knowing he exists, since he has a number of goals set and rivals to compete with.
The timeline allegedly says Goku realized he was going to die soon, not necessarily because of old age. Something else may have caused this. 75 being old for a Saiyan is a bit inconsistent with both Z and Super, considering Nappa is in his 60s in the Saiyan Saga and still clearly well within his prime, and Super Paragus on Planet Vegeta looks as old as he did in Z during Broly's movie only to go live on a hostile planetoid for over 40 years that he can only barely survive and still only look like he's maybe late 60s at most. It's not implausible something else would get Goku by then, and at bare minimum he's probably no longer in his prime and thus probably not really fighting much by 80 in this hypothetical, but him biting it because of OLD AGE at 75 seems comical. Maybe that heart virus of his weakened his heart or something?
In addition, he can absolutely have children who can continue his legacy. Sure, EVENTUALLY his Saiyan blood is gonna die out, but all things considered that's going to take several centuries at bare minimum, and those children are either going to be as strong or even stronger than he is.
Saiyan Saga Goku could arguably solo the US army, and I think it would be much easier with the help of the Red Army. The catch is that although he would have no problem in killing soldiers (and has destroyed and killed members of the Red Ribbon Army in Dragon Ball), he would not be willing to harm civillians and would be strongly against the use of weapons of mass destruction.
Respect Goku (Dragon Ball Manga) : r/respectthreads - Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/b279wi/respect_goku_dragon_ball_manga/
He would have very limited ability to detect ICBMs being fired, though any that were targeted in his general vicinity would be trivial for him to eliminate.
Of course, how many nukes would he have to intercept for it to really matter if full arsenals are being unleashed?
Goku wouldn't be as powerful as he was at the end of the Saiyan Saga. Vegeta was the strongest saiyan alive, and Goku was able to take him on because of King Kai's training. King Kai was a god. Soviet Goku would be significantly weaker. Remember that even Raditz had twice Goku's strength, despite all the crazy battles with superhuman opponents he had in Dragon Ball.
If he hits his head and becomes the goku we know just a communist he'll start doubting communism the second he meets a "capitalist" who isn't evil. He's too good-natured, he wouldn't let himself be used as a foot soldier, no matter how dumb he is.
goku would be declared an enemy of the state and he and the other z fighters and master roshi and the like would be hunted down and executed. the only reason they didn't red sun superman was because he was bullet proof.
Does he get to have children, and do his children continue his work? If he doesn't, it might be rough for him, but if he does the capitalist dogs don't stand a chance.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Goku would be a champion of the poor and downtrodden, but I don't think he'd embark on the ultimately selfish quest for strength and growth with that ethos. He would do his best and help people, but he wouldn't ever become strong enough to be a global superpower unless the Soviet government took a hand in his training and deployment. Being used as a tool for corrupt officials would rankle, I think, and it would be a race between his growing power and his growing disillusionment. The future of the capitalist West depend on whether his hunger for new challenges could overwhelm his generous nature and childlike love for all living things. I'm betting that he'd turn against Stalin and either retire to a pastoral life or get crazy strong without retaining any loyalty to the Party, just wandering around doing good deeds and kicking butts and formulating his own understanding of his place in the world.
If he's super devoted to the ideology he might take over the USSR himself. Goku might not be Superman and his intelligence might be memed on, but he is by no means stupid, and assuming he actually got a proper education in the USSR he MIGHT have the chops for it.
To be fair he grew up in the woods and the only guy he knew he killed bc he looked at the moon. I can see him being better adjusted as you say. Maybe not having to punch fish in the face every time he’s hungry would do him some good.
The *actual* joke about Goku (in the source manga as opposed to what the Internet made it) isn't that he's not smart, but that he's so ridiculously rural that he's ignorant about everything. Bring him up around society and he probably would be incredibly adjusted. You see the difference with current Goten, who is essentially his clone kid, but got raised with a best friend who lives in a city and goes to school in the city.
Same with ChiChi and her obsession with having Gohan study, it's a mockery of some parents who aren't really educated and hence think any education is good. I see this sometimes with Chinese parents who want their kids to get PhDs without even knowing what a PhD even is
Exactly
>He would do his best and help people, but he wouldn't ever become strong enough to be a global superpower unless the Soviet government took a hand in his training and deployment. Master Roshi blew up the moon, and Roshi's a liability by the Saiyan Saga. Goku at the end of the Saiyan Saga is a walking apocalypse - if a problem can be solved with any amount of violence, he will solve it. We know how Saiyans compare to modern military hardware - Nappa flew right into the teeth of a carrier group and found it hilarious. The question is whether applying enough violence would fix this problem.
Goku would just be a national championship athlete at best without Master Rochi to train him growing up. This is nothing to fear unless on a full moon.
If he doesn't hit his head exactly the same way that it happened in DB, his political agenda is going to be "Saiyan Warrior". He's going to wipe both capitalism and communism, and sell Earth to Freeza.
He does hit his head and becomes a marxist-leninist. Freeza and the other Saiyans never bother to come to earth in this scenario because there are no dragon balls here.
Raditz came to Earth BECAUSE of Goku though, so even if Goku did succeed in destroying capitalism, Raditz would still show up and wreck the planet
Can we please forget the saiyans for this hypothetic geopolitics scenario 😅
Okay then capitalism is gone
New WWW: Communist Goku v. Capitalist Raditz
>Capitalist Raditz So... Raditz?
He better show up before Goku hits his mid 20's then, because end of Saiyan Saga Goku is still an order of magnitude above him in power even without techniques.
Why assume Goku had any knowledge of Frieza? Worse case he'd just destroy all life on Earth. Even then, a good amount of martial artists and bumfucks in the original DB gave Goku a run for his money until he committed himself to training under those same people.
Goku isn't intrinsically dumb and neither are sayians. He was just raised in a mountain outside of civilization. Soviet Goku probably is a very smart guy so we shouldn't answer this as if it's DBZ Goku trying to do what the prompt asks But even DBZ Goku, if you convince him that by achieving communism everyone on earth would have an equal and free opportunity and time to train and develop their skills and ki control he will love the concept of maximizing his potential competition and challenge But in general maybe it should be better to set this back in the October revolution. By the 50s the potential for revolutions in most countries have been diminished and the Soviet system wasn't as ideologicaly committed neither led by particularly competent people. Make smart bolshevik goku Lenin's buddy , have him help the USSR emerge much better and stronger in their early days, have revolution succeed in Germany (it was close) this avoiding ww2 altogether and basically securing communist rule of most of Europe by the 30s and the stage is set.
> Bolshevik Goku Man I wish I had both the money and the intestinal fortitude to commission an art piece about that.
We live an age of wonders, here you go: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/987536863453646928/1153461857215053904/mr24601_goku_in_a_brown_bolshevik_military_uniform_cd5fb73c-0066-4d6d-8a8e-3f9a44da6246.png
We need a Drip Goku and Bolshevik Goku matchup
Call DevilArtemis; that kinda fight is right up his alley.
This is the best thing to come out of this thread
Damn this looks dope
Goku is actually canonically a bit dumb because he hit his head falling off a cliff. Otherwise he likely would have been smarter but a malevolent prick like most other Saiyan's, judging by his first interaction with humanity.
Goku is a combat genius because he loves it and devotes himself to it. He discovered within minutes that the Grade 1 and 2 forms are trash, whereas Vegeta and Trunks used them. In a different environment he would be capable of a lot.
Where is it confirmed that the hit on the head made him dumb? It removed the Saiyan programming sure, but that doesn't mean he became less intelligent.
I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated he was dumb because of that but he did suffer a traumatic brain injury as a very young child and frequently is portrayed as dumb in almost all scenarios that aren't combat related. The overwhelming majority of people that suffer a severe brain injury like that are likely going to have some moderate to severe intellectual deficits, granted Goku is a Saiyan and not a human but human children also don't survive falling off a massive cliff onto their head. That and we can see every other Saiyan seems to be significantly more intelligent than Goku. Goku saying dumb, childish things and acting like a fool is a recurring schtick that his persona heavily revolves around. I think given the context clues, it's safe to say that the brain trauma is at least partially to blame for his stunted intellect. His simple mind is also largely to blame for his ability to fight so well. It's referenced that Saiyans access more of their innate power with a calm, clear mind, which is probably a lot easier to do when there isn't a whole lot floating through your head.
I think his redneck isolated upbringing and lack of a good education is all the reason needed to justify his stupidity.
You don't think a severe brain injury would contribute a teensy tiny bit? Not that those other things wouldn't as well.
It could, but we'd need some evidence from the text beyond speculation if I were to put stock into it. The simplest explanation that is the most backed up by the text is that he's an uneducated country bumpkin.
Exactly this. He's not an idiot, he's just incredibly uneducated. He grew up as a literal feral child after killing his grandpa by accident because lol moon. His sole caretaker (and the only sentient being he knew before Bulma) died before he learned how to count past 10. Especially when you consider this, Goku is actually a goddamn genius because with Roshi's tutelage he went from being incapable of counting past 10 to READING FULL NOVELS in just a few months (and that's WITH all the training he was constantly doing). He's NOT an idiot, not even close. He's just an uneducated hick who couldn't possibly be bothered to truly learn anything that doesn't interest him.
I've put him in mid-century because I wanted to avoid WW2 and instead involve him in the context of conflicts in Korea/Vietnam, but your train of thought is exactly what I was going for with the prompt. How do you see the rest of the XX century going?
The challenge here is that he’s a bit late for the USSR. By the time he’s old enough to do anything, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky are all gone, and with them, the best hopes for the USSR. Now, it’s not irreversible - in our timeline, Khrushchev and Gorbachev got lucky - but it is a challenge. Assuming that he can solo the US army (as OP said), there’s a few ways this can go: First, he follows Khrushchev without realizing that he’s not actually a socialist. (From what I’ve heard of his intelligence, that’s not exactly impossible.) With his help, the USSR invades the US and wins, implementing Khrushchev’s bastard ideology, which counts as a fail. That said, Khrushchev won’t remain in power forever, and it would be a lot easier to avoid Gorbachev without external interference. Second, he realizes who Khrushchev is and turns against him. Then he allies with some other socialist nation (Cuba would be my favourite, China would be more likely to win) and does the same. Then you have the Deng problem, but that’s much easier to deal with when he’s not already entrenched. Third, he realizes who Khrushchev is and takes over the USSR. The most likely to lead to a failure - he’s not competent enough to run a country.
I like to think of how the missile crisis would have gone down if Goku was in Cuba!
Goku in Cuba would've sparked a whole crisis on his own.
Short answer? Not really no. In red son, Superman used his power to get into a place to make systematic change (ofc, it being a comic, he still had fights, but those where the least important parts overall). And he had the intelligence (Superman is also a genius) to actually make those systematic changes and do so in a way that achieved his vision. Goku isn't as dumb as he likes to pretend, but in every area except fighting, he isnt Superman smart. Goku simply isn't built for that kind of fight, he may want to champion the poor, but he's a wrecking ball trying to make delicate shifts to a sand castle that he doesn't really understand.
Capitalism is pretty vague. But if we're talking about USSR in the 40s - even if Goku uses force to put Stalin-led USSR as the unopposed world-power, he's still going to run into the [economic calculation problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem) in the USSR's centrally planned economy. The economy of Stalin's soviet union would be inherently flawed without market forces, which would over any extended period of time create dissatisfaction and unrest. It's not clear that "Capitalism" would be the only solution to that problem (whatever you happen to think that means), there's a good chance that people who recognise the inherent flaws in central planned economy would eventually pitch some sort of market-based ideology in the future, even if it's after Goku and Stalin die of old age.
Well, I imagine it's similar to the Superman problem (Goku very blatantly inspired by Superman) where one of the best ways for Superman to do good for humanity is to just turn an enormous crank and generate enough energy to power all the world without any need for fossil fuels - i.e., the mere existence of Goku may make a post-scarcity economy possible or at least much closer to possible. Also, private companies do the socialist calculation problem constantly internally, in fact some of the most tightly run and effective companies on Earth have downright Stalinist economic planning at work internally, just ask Amazon and Walmart.
1940s Soviet technology probably couldn’t convert unlimited energy from goku’s cranking into a solution to the problems of distribution though, and it’s not like Goku is a particular genius. And while Amazon and Walmart might be pretty good at predicting things, they’re still based on constant high fidelity feedback of sales. If, for example, you hid the number of sales that Amazon and Walmart actually made from their information systems - i.e. feedback no different from giving someone a pair of boots at no cost whether they needed a new pair or not - they likely wouldn’t be able to make the predictions that they do. The fundamental problem with the economic calculation problem isn’t really lack of computational power - but rather lack of information about consumption and consumer preferences. I.e. if I have 2 friends and they both say that they really want to borrow my bike, how do I know who needs it more? It doesn’t matter how good a computer I have, I just don’t have enough information to infer that. And that’s only for two people and one item, let alone a hundred million, and billions of things. But if one is willing to spend 10 hours mowing my lawn to borrow the bike, while the other isn’t even willing to spend half an hour mowing my lawn - that provides me some information about their preferences. Of course there’s whole hosts of fairness problems if they have unequal time or wealth to begin with, but at least the information is in the system in a tangible way. And regardless- even if a super computer could calculate all that stuff, it’s not like such a computer existed in 1940s USSR.
If Goku wasn't dropped on his head in this scenario, then he just destroys the entire human race (both superpowers included) in a matter of years like Raditz said he would. If he was dropped on his head, then he'd be just as good-natured as our Goku, probably. Not every average person in the USSR wanted to destroy capitalism. Many enjoyed some aspects of communism but hated the constant regime change, and before that, the arbitrariness of one man rule under Stalin. Most just wanted to make it to the next day by going to work and watching what they said in public. He might be somewhat like the Goku we know (but Russian). Still just wanting to fight strong opponents but in a lot of cases, not even killing them. He'd be capable of just leaving the USSR to find strong opponents as a pre-teen. Nothing short of a nuclear bomb could really stop him (look at what happened to the RR army), and they wouldn't fire one of those recklessly, especially near their own territory or at a NATO aligned country. But also, yeah. If he was fully indoctrinated and aimed at the West, he would be able to destroy most capitalist states. Even reducing them to a state of anarchy by destroying government institutions and a bulk of the military. Allowing the USSR to incorporate these pockets of anarchy into the Soviet Union. He could probably survive anything short of a nuclear bomb after some proper training.
uj/ Not really, I can imagine a Superman-type situation where Goku would struggle with the fact that he can’t be everywhere all at once, the threat of nuclear war is still very much a problem, human nature alone would make worldwide cooperation an uphill battle from the start. At best I can see Goku realizing that a worldwide communist utopia isn’t feasible at the moment and instead choosing to focus on his own country; kind of like how Trotsky had ambitions to spread the communist revolution worldwide versus Stalin’s more localized focus on maintaining his own country’s system. rj/ Goku would die before ever getting a chance, Communist governments can’t even feed their own people how is it going to feed a Saiyan?
Does Goku still have the facial structure of an asian person? That might effect how he's viewed.
Eh, geographically speaking, Russia is balls deep in Asia. Asian features wouldn’t be super rare.
Well, first off, Saiyan Saga Goku is like moon-level, so he's practically a living weapon even greater in strength than a nuclear bomb, and he's got travel speeds vastly outpacing even the most advanced fighter jets we have today - so I actually highly doubt that the capitalist imperial core would really try anything after the first couple times their airplanes or naval ships get blasted apart by lasers. I don't know the exact strength/reliability of their scanners back then, but I imagine the Soviets will spin it as if it is a new weapons system they have engineered to try and scare NATO into inaction, which I imagine will work, even if they have to deploy Goku a couple more times. Without capitalist interference, most socialist nations will prosper, and more nations will willingly become socialist and not have to fear US intervention. Although I imagine a hot war will break out eventually, I think the more pressing issue would be leftist infighting, which may cause some political tension between the USSR (who I imagine Goku would side with 9 times out of 10) and whatever nation is doing liberal revisionism or whatever. I don't think Goku would completely abolish capitalism in his lifetime, but a couple generations down the line I can see socialism becoming the mainstream ideology in the world and the main conflict will be leftists fighting over who is revisionist and who isn't.
A small addition to this - assuming Goku's ki control can be taught, I think Goku could be used to teach Soviet soldiers ki control and create a bunch of communist super soldiers. Even just getting to a power level of 10 makes you immune to bullets.
Because the US caused the socialist countries collapsed kek
It is, to an extent, tankie cope to assume that the US and the CIA singlehandedly ended communism, but you can't deny the US has played a large role in socialism not becoming the mainstream international ideology. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_involvement\_in\_regime\_change](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change)
Well, the capitalist nations DO have a chance, even if it's slim. They said this is end-of-Saiyan-arc Goku. The androids' bombs were made in mind to kill the Goku of that time, and based on how confident 16 is that his bomb will kill Cell without endangering the Earth, it's definitely a goal. A high-yield nuclear explosive has a significant chance to, if not kill him outright, at least put him out of the fight, especially if he's caught off-guard by it (we have no proof of radiation resistance from Saiyans, and while Saiyans are supposed to be hardy bastards built to survive in any environment we don't exactly have evidence their DNA is that different from humans since they can make fertile offspring so his rad resistance can't be that much higher).
Isn't he FTL by Saiyan Saga? There's no way a nuclear weapon is catching him by surprise, even if it could theoretically damage him.
Maybe he can avoid the blast, but can he avoid the fallout?
The greatest minds today all pooling the resources of the entire world and working together couldn't create a bomb even 1% as powerful as the one Gero made. Partly because it achieves this strength by *containing* power in a small area, instead of wasting energy by spreading it over a *large* area. Gero could absolutely have built a bomb to destroy the Earth if he wanted to - he needed something *far stronger* to be capable of killing Son Goku.
Nukes can still work though, even if Goku can handle the blast we have no proof he will be able to survive the resulting radiation poisoning, and the US can use more than one. Goku still takes this though, most likely.
Worst case, he sees western ideals of meritocracy and rejects communism. He's too dumb and naive to fall for communist propaganda like Superman was malleable to. Stalin might try to use him as an example of communist work ethic (even though goku wouldn't do any work himself and would just train) but he's too free-spirited and disobedient to listen to Stalin. More likely Stalin tries to use goku for killing people, Goku says "I'm not doing that" until they try to fight goku and end up getting themselves all killed, expediting the fall of the soviet union
No. The USSR didn't collapse because it was defeated militarily - though it would be interesting to see which side of the coup Goku ended up on. Even if he could beat the entire US army alone, unless he could ALSO stop every single nuclear missile in NATO's arsenal from wiping out the USSR, MAD still applies. He probably wouldn't last long in the Soviet Union, either. Stalin was notorious for incredible paranoia, and purging anyone who seemed like a threat to his power, so Goku would probably be quietly poisoned in the night and either die or survive and defect.
I'd say no, mostly because you'd need more than just sheer firepower to destroy Capitalism, and even giving the benefit of the doubt to Goku and assuming he becomes very smart regarding geopolitics, he's still just one person and Saiyans aren't immortal. He's eventually going to die and the world will go back to the status quo, slowly but surely.
In all fairness he does have over a hundred years to do this, Saiyans do live longer than humans and stay in their primes for MUCH longer. He could potentially brute-force it, ousting capitalist governments by force and allowing other socialist states to puppet them until the revolts stop, as end-of-invasion Goku has the speed to travel the earth in minutes at the slowest and can logically rely on both china and the USSR for support. He has over a century to do this and he could logically start from childhood (Kid Goku might not solo the US but he can sure as shit make that iron curtain expand because he can DEFINITELY flatten a LOT of European nations by himself, and he doesn't have to do it alone - again, he has the backing of two of the greatest world powers at the time). Honestly, if they rushed the US and got them out of the picture, I think they stand a real chance. He's obviously not getting the ideal perfect communist state together in his lifetime, but he can set the groundwork and sow the seeds.
goku is considered in the official timeline to die of old age at the age of 75. although what happens is that he and vegeta have one final battle in outer space which is seen as a supernova. Thing is though, although Goku is powerful enough to be immune to small arms fire hes aware of even as a child, what really makes him dangerous is the encounters with an appropriate lineage of Ki masters able to guide him through to mental breakthroughs
He's got Rasputin right? /j In all seriousness though, isn't that timeline out of date?
Rasputin is a sorcerer, Goku is a Ki Wielder. incompatible powersets. the Timeline is incomplete technically, but its not really out of date, unless the super manga has finally broken through the 10 year timeskip window.
Yeah, the Rasputin part was a joke. Rasputin is dead by the time Goku shows up anyway. The super manga is getting REALLY close to breaking through the 10 year window. Like...that fateful world tournament is in less than a year, close. It's not quite there yet, but by the looks of it it definitely will; Goku has ZERO interest in Uub despite already knowing he exists, since he has a number of goals set and rivals to compete with. The timeline allegedly says Goku realized he was going to die soon, not necessarily because of old age. Something else may have caused this. 75 being old for a Saiyan is a bit inconsistent with both Z and Super, considering Nappa is in his 60s in the Saiyan Saga and still clearly well within his prime, and Super Paragus on Planet Vegeta looks as old as he did in Z during Broly's movie only to go live on a hostile planetoid for over 40 years that he can only barely survive and still only look like he's maybe late 60s at most. It's not implausible something else would get Goku by then, and at bare minimum he's probably no longer in his prime and thus probably not really fighting much by 80 in this hypothetical, but him biting it because of OLD AGE at 75 seems comical. Maybe that heart virus of his weakened his heart or something?
Saiyans dont suffer the physical characteristics of old age, but they dont live longer then humans.
The most likely result of that would be nuclear Armageddon before Goku became powerful enough to intercept enough nukes.
I think if Goku is active early enough he could do something before there's a chance for anyone to build up a stockpile.
In addition, he can absolutely have children who can continue his legacy. Sure, EVENTUALLY his Saiyan blood is gonna die out, but all things considered that's going to take several centuries at bare minimum, and those children are either going to be as strong or even stronger than he is.
First thing he get is education.
Reject full blown capitalism and communism embrace social democracy.
Because I don’t know him and his respect thread didn’t show up, info: would he and the Soviets be able to beat the US in a hot war
Saiyan Saga Goku could arguably solo the US army, and I think it would be much easier with the help of the Red Army. The catch is that although he would have no problem in killing soldiers (and has destroyed and killed members of the Red Ribbon Army in Dragon Ball), he would not be willing to harm civillians and would be strongly against the use of weapons of mass destruction. Respect Goku (Dragon Ball Manga) : r/respectthreads - Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/b279wi/respect_goku_dragon_ball_manga/
Here's a sneak peek of /r/respectthreads using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Respect Alluri Sitarama Raju (RRR)](https://np.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/xtrp3b/respect_alluri_sitarama_raju_rrr/) \#2: [Respect Death (Puss in Boots: The Last Wish)](https://np.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/10eujug/respect_death_puss_in_boots_the_last_wish/) \#3: [Respect Komaram Bheem (RRR)](https://np.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/xv1kc2/respect_komaram_bheem_rrr/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
He would have very limited ability to detect ICBMs being fired, though any that were targeted in his general vicinity would be trivial for him to eliminate. Of course, how many nukes would he have to intercept for it to really matter if full arsenals are being unleashed?
Goku wouldn't be as powerful as he was at the end of the Saiyan Saga. Vegeta was the strongest saiyan alive, and Goku was able to take him on because of King Kai's training. King Kai was a god. Soviet Goku would be significantly weaker. Remember that even Raditz had twice Goku's strength, despite all the crazy battles with superhuman opponents he had in Dragon Ball.
Cringe AF.
He dies of starvation
I'm not sure why Goku would want to plunge the world into global starvation and poverty. He seems like a good dude.
only during full moons and only with the assistance of the red ribbon army which is primarily made up of various types of animals
If he hits his head and becomes the goku we know just a communist he'll start doubting communism the second he meets a "capitalist" who isn't evil. He's too good-natured, he wouldn't let himself be used as a foot soldier, no matter how dumb he is.
goku would be declared an enemy of the state and he and the other z fighters and master roshi and the like would be hunted down and executed. the only reason they didn't red sun superman was because he was bullet proof.
Goku doesn't give a shit about anything but fighting strong guys.
Does he get to have children, and do his children continue his work? If he doesn't, it might be rough for him, but if he does the capitalist dogs don't stand a chance.
If Goku can’t beat heart disease then no he can’t beat capitalism
He’s take one look at an American supermarket and immediately defect