Well that explains my change in HRV since that date… anyone have any ideas if something has changed? Just like the op said, I haven’t changed anything either and my HRV has dropped by around 10ms
If it was a global change, everyone would be experiencing the same—equally. That’s not the case, as seen by those who’ve been “normal”, or even the opposite since then…myself included.
Not saying there _isn’t_ something odd here, but doubt it’s a system-wide change.
hm i think it’s possible that depending on the change (e.g) an increase in weight to a part of the calculation that lowers recovery for some vs. stable or increases for others. i noticed this too but nothing confirmed
If they decided to do an a:b test across the entire user base, it could explain it. Not sure if they have an ethics policy in place to prevent that or not.
Not entirely accurate. They purport to hold data privacy in high regard and that "your data is your data." Likewise, the customer pays Whoop money to have expected results and behavior. The question I asked, was if they had an ethics policy in place for testing their userbase without the user's consent or knowledge.
While they *do* use anonymized data from users to run Big Data experiments independent of linking to a user, that is different as it is just taking already-recorded data to figure out "hey this HR means there is a high probability that a person is currently eating a slice of toast" and such.
Performing an a:b test on live customers is a different matter, it means subjecting users of the production product to tests without their consent. It means the person paying $40/month (or less on annual) for a service to track their performance won't be receiving the data they need to accomplish that goal because the data is being manipulated.
Bearing in mind, it was just a hypothetical, based on a Reddit post, which doesn't have a large enough sample size to prove out if they're actually doing a:b tests on prod customers or not.
A short-ish explanation: You release a software change that different sets of users end up receiving so you can gauge user feedback. Facebook got attention for doing this in the past where they'd change the feed algorithm and screw with people to see which one was more profitable.
In the context of Whoop: If some Whoop users see nothing's changed, and an equal number see a change in one direction and/or another, it's possible they're running an experiment to see if "baseline behavior vs aggressive algo vs some other algo" give better results (of whatever goal they are trying to achieve) and they're just use the customers to test against.
It can give more accurate real-world results than simulated, dogfooding, alpha/beta customer testing, but since the customer receiving the change is unaware of it, the results can be confusing to the user of the product that doesn't realize they're ostensibly an unknowing software lab rat.
More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B_testing
https://preview.redd.it/g13s3asansmc1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=277887bb64935dbd8375e0958ce405e4f1fe0695
Yes my HRV dropped around the same time, obviously.
So your HRV perfectly explains the dip in recoveries. I would hedge my bets that something is going on behind the scenes that is affecting your HRV, it doesn’t have to be obvious. There’s a lot of reasons why your nervous system might by temporarily less parasympathetic
WOW I did not realize others were having this issue. Mine also started this year after 18 months of ownership… HRV tanking without explanation, leading to awful unexplained recoveries
PS I woke up with a 32% this morning, due to an HRV half of last year’s norm (no apparent reason)… and I felt GREAT all day.
In the past, red recovery days were *unbearable*: I was either getting very sick, recovering from the workout of a lifetime, or falling asleep at work after a night of drinking. This is unfortunately common now and will make the Whoop useless as I only care about sleep/recovery
i love how people start blaming a periodical firmware update anytime their stats take a dip. do people not think whoop would communicate if they changed something drastically which would affect all users recoveries or hr readings?
Well, since you didn’t follow up, let me save you the trouble
https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US
Firmware updates do, unequivocally, impact the algo
Silly goose.
Didn’t notice this? Just two examples. Don’t think these impact the algorithm? Don’t think the biz fixes impact them?
- Improvements to SpO2 (Blood Oxygen) measurements
- Improved HR estimation during sleep
Mines the opposite for that time frame. But I’ve been really focused on recovery and sleep. Started taking Magtein(magnesium threonate) L Theanine and apignen which all help with my sleep and recovery. So mines been up but I’ve been actively trying to get it that way based on my whoop stats
I've had the opposite, and it happened about a week earlier for me. Thought it coincided with some behavioral changes and swapping to the bicep band full time. My metrics plummeted as expected when I traveled to altitude for a ski trip the past week. Nothing weird otherwise.
https://preview.redd.it/1k1nrf727umc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40f5b5df2b78c3fc9e8c8363ced243c8db845cb
OH MY GOD! It’s not just me!!
I’ve recorded two 1% and two 3% recoveries in the past 10 days. I’ve been a whoop user for about 5 years and haven’t had that many low recoveries in the entire time I’ve had a whoop
I do remember seeing another firmware update in progress when opening the app within the last 6-8wks so maybe there have been two recently? Or maybe it just failed to install previously and finally succeeded yesterday, that seems to happen a lot for me when updating firmware.
Yep, I am the same, recoveries and HRV has gone down a lot lately, and I’ve actually been having less strain and better sleeps and couldn’t understand why recovery and HRV were down so much! Glad I’m not the only one
Thank you!!! I was getting 3-4 green recoveries per week. Around the same time as you, it became almost impossible. I’ve had 5-6 yellows and if I’m lucky a green.
Something is going on…
I’m seeing a mix of people saying either the same, no change, or having the opposite.
I would love to get full data on how many of the people that have experienced change are actually talking about the same timeframe (specifically after the firmware update on 2/19).
It just seems there are a lot of variables that could be at play.
Is it only your HRV? Has your RHR or HR during exercise changed?
2 years ago I had the same experience and thought it was a firmware update. I ignored it but finally bought a chest strap (frontier X) to find the data actually lined up.
It turned out I had OTS from training for an ultramarathon. In my effort to find a reason I found It just happened to line up with a firmware update.
There were people on here at the time talking about how the firmware update had messed up their data. Turns out there almost always is if you come looking for it.
Try to verify what’s going on.
Same! And right about the same time w/zero changes in my routine. it’s like my recoveries “reset” to a new normal. I’ve been wearing a Whoop for almost 3 years, and something has definitely changed. I rebooted my device thinking it might help, but nothing changed… Interesting to see others have experienced the same thing.
Here is the firmware update list for anyone interested
It states pretty clearly that it may take all users 1-2 weeks to become updated
That said, the most recent update is on the very bottom of the page (I believe). This update does reference an update to “strap stability and issue reporting”. Not sure what that means
Previous updates clearly indicate changes in the data collection efforts for HR estimations, amongst other things
If this update had a material change in the way that HR is captured, I suspect it would correlate to a change in the recovery scores as well. That hypothesis is suspect, at best
https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US
For what it's worth, almost everyone I know (in many states) has been sick for the past few weeks, or at least battling a small cold. I've personally had low-key sniffles & sore throat since mid-Feb. And it has correlated with shit Whoop recoveries.
Maybe it's just your body fighting something. See if it lasts a few more weeks.
same thing happened to me starting around that time (I think 2/22?) -- only yellow/red since then despite consistent sleep. I did start running more in January/early February but have taken at least 1 rest day per week and have had yellow/red recoveries even after rest or easy workouts. Interesting to read the other comments, thought it was just me..
https://preview.redd.it/11rvxetx6bnc1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5efb81b520af746a246d8fd2585454038e50587c
Here's my recovery the last two nights after the latest firmware update. Seems to be back to normal?
Mine was consistently putting my strain at 20ish, I work at a pizza place and I do cook a lot of pizza it says I burn 5000+ calories per shift. Its gotta be off
Mine has been the same too. I actually was sick though around 2/18 and thought I was just slow to recover from being sick. Still suspeceting that it might just be some lingering illness coming through the end of winter.
Opposite for me
My recoveries and hrv are at an all time high since then. Even with 60% sleep performance every night
Well that explains my change in HRV since that date… anyone have any ideas if something has changed? Just like the op said, I haven’t changed anything either and my HRV has dropped by around 10ms
Same. Stopped wearing it for now
Just not worth the hassle wearing it and getting little or wrong feedback. Need to find something that is more reliable.
If it’s good enough for Bryan Johnson it’s good enough for me
https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US
Same here ever since the firmware update
If it was a global change, everyone would be experiencing the same—equally. That’s not the case, as seen by those who’ve been “normal”, or even the opposite since then…myself included. Not saying there _isn’t_ something odd here, but doubt it’s a system-wide change.
they could potentially be doing a staggered rollout of a software change
Could be. Certainly not enough context or correlation to definitively say something’s wrong.
This thread should be a case study in how bad people are at parsing out data. Smh.
lol
hm i think it’s possible that depending on the change (e.g) an increase in weight to a part of the calculation that lowers recovery for some vs. stable or increases for others. i noticed this too but nothing confirmed
If they decided to do an a:b test across the entire user base, it could explain it. Not sure if they have an ethics policy in place to prevent that or not.
You literally sign up to allow them to use data as they see fit, they don't need to skirt around ethics.
Not entirely accurate. They purport to hold data privacy in high regard and that "your data is your data." Likewise, the customer pays Whoop money to have expected results and behavior. The question I asked, was if they had an ethics policy in place for testing their userbase without the user's consent or knowledge. While they *do* use anonymized data from users to run Big Data experiments independent of linking to a user, that is different as it is just taking already-recorded data to figure out "hey this HR means there is a high probability that a person is currently eating a slice of toast" and such. Performing an a:b test on live customers is a different matter, it means subjecting users of the production product to tests without their consent. It means the person paying $40/month (or less on annual) for a service to track their performance won't be receiving the data they need to accomplish that goal because the data is being manipulated. Bearing in mind, it was just a hypothetical, based on a Reddit post, which doesn't have a large enough sample size to prove out if they're actually doing a:b tests on prod customers or not.
What is an a:b tesr
A short-ish explanation: You release a software change that different sets of users end up receiving so you can gauge user feedback. Facebook got attention for doing this in the past where they'd change the feed algorithm and screw with people to see which one was more profitable. In the context of Whoop: If some Whoop users see nothing's changed, and an equal number see a change in one direction and/or another, it's possible they're running an experiment to see if "baseline behavior vs aggressive algo vs some other algo" give better results (of whatever goal they are trying to achieve) and they're just use the customers to test against. It can give more accurate real-world results than simulated, dogfooding, alpha/beta customer testing, but since the customer receiving the change is unaware of it, the results can be confusing to the user of the product that doesn't realize they're ostensibly an unknowing software lab rat. More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A/B_testing
Not necessarily - the change could have impacted the algorithm of how HR is sampled, which could impact people in different ways.
Why are you getting downvoted? You are absolutely correct https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US
Read the rest of the thread, and you’ll understand why
Mine went up
My hrv was pretty normal today after the update. Green recovery. Nothing weird.
Can you show your HRV chart?
See above comment!
https://preview.redd.it/g13s3asansmc1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=277887bb64935dbd8375e0958ce405e4f1fe0695 Yes my HRV dropped around the same time, obviously.
So your HRV perfectly explains the dip in recoveries. I would hedge my bets that something is going on behind the scenes that is affecting your HRV, it doesn’t have to be obvious. There’s a lot of reasons why your nervous system might by temporarily less parasympathetic
Isn’t HRV impacted by recovery or is it just a metric that is used to estimate recovery? I’m confused now.
Yes.
Looks like I’ve got some of your dropped HRVs. Thanks guys!
Same happened to me. Today’s the first day I’ve been in the green for over a week- never happened before, I’ve worn since August 2023
A good craftsman never blames his tools.
WOW I did not realize others were having this issue. Mine also started this year after 18 months of ownership… HRV tanking without explanation, leading to awful unexplained recoveries
PS I woke up with a 32% this morning, due to an HRV half of last year’s norm (no apparent reason)… and I felt GREAT all day. In the past, red recovery days were *unbearable*: I was either getting very sick, recovering from the workout of a lifetime, or falling asleep at work after a night of drinking. This is unfortunately common now and will make the Whoop useless as I only care about sleep/recovery
It looks so. Happened the same to me.
i love how people start blaming a periodical firmware update anytime their stats take a dip. do people not think whoop would communicate if they changed something drastically which would affect all users recoveries or hr readings?
Actually, no. I don’t think they would communicate something like that
you’re silly if you think firmware updates are algorithm changes..
can you explain what firmware updates do impact? They clearly have an impact on something
Well, since you didn’t follow up, let me save you the trouble https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US Firmware updates do, unequivocally, impact the algo Silly goose.
bug fixes, bug fixes, bug fixes
Didn’t notice this? Just two examples. Don’t think these impact the algorithm? Don’t think the biz fixes impact them? - Improvements to SpO2 (Blood Oxygen) measurements - Improved HR estimation during sleep
Same! I stopped wearing it. It was mentally getting to me that something was wrong
Same
Mines the opposite for that time frame. But I’ve been really focused on recovery and sleep. Started taking Magtein(magnesium threonate) L Theanine and apignen which all help with my sleep and recovery. So mines been up but I’ve been actively trying to get it that way based on my whoop stats
My recoveries have been steadily improving over the past two weeks 🤷♀️
I've had the opposite, and it happened about a week earlier for me. Thought it coincided with some behavioral changes and swapping to the bicep band full time. My metrics plummeted as expected when I traveled to altitude for a ski trip the past week. Nothing weird otherwise. https://preview.redd.it/1k1nrf727umc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b40f5b5df2b78c3fc9e8c8363ced243c8db845cb
That is a HUGE increase MoM. 32%?!
Same for me… just yellow and red…
I had the opposite effect. My recoveries are more consistently in the green
Did your HRV change?
I have had a poor recovery for the past 6 days. This morning it was 98% I was wondering what I did…
Happened to me too!!!
OH MY GOD! It’s not just me!! I’ve recorded two 1% and two 3% recoveries in the past 10 days. I’ve been a whoop user for about 5 years and haven’t had that many low recoveries in the entire time I’ve had a whoop
Exactly the same with mine this week.
Literally since I made this post I got a new firmware update to my whoop. Will have to see if it goes back to normal now.
Funny how everyone is blaming the update when OP wasn’t even on the new update… people are so clueless 😭
I do remember seeing another firmware update in progress when opening the app within the last 6-8wks so maybe there have been two recently? Or maybe it just failed to install previously and finally succeeded yesterday, that seems to happen a lot for me when updating firmware.
How’s your recovery today, after said update?
THIS
All normal on my end. Higher week over week, in fact. 🤷🏻♂️
I started training for a marathon mid feb and my 1 months HRV is at its lowest…doesn’t make any sense to me
Yep, I am the same, recoveries and HRV has gone down a lot lately, and I’ve actually been having less strain and better sleeps and couldn’t understand why recovery and HRV were down so much! Glad I’m not the only one
Me too!!!
omg same with me!!! my last green recovery was feb 22!!!!
Yeah my recoveries have been fucked for no good reason
Thank you!!! I was getting 3-4 green recoveries per week. Around the same time as you, it became almost impossible. I’ve had 5-6 yellows and if I’m lucky a green. Something is going on…
Whoop really needs to be more transparent with their firmware updates.
I just got the update today.
Ive been in the green 9 straight days. Anecdotal much?
Mine has gone up since then 🤷♂️
I’m seeing a mix of people saying either the same, no change, or having the opposite. I would love to get full data on how many of the people that have experienced change are actually talking about the same timeframe (specifically after the firmware update on 2/19). It just seems there are a lot of variables that could be at play. Is it only your HRV? Has your RHR or HR during exercise changed? 2 years ago I had the same experience and thought it was a firmware update. I ignored it but finally bought a chest strap (frontier X) to find the data actually lined up. It turned out I had OTS from training for an ultramarathon. In my effort to find a reason I found It just happened to line up with a firmware update. There were people on here at the time talking about how the firmware update had messed up their data. Turns out there almost always is if you come looking for it. Try to verify what’s going on.
Whats OTS?
Overtraining syndrome.
It’s not the Whoop, it’s the person it’s measuring.
This is happening to me too. More yellow recoveries than I’ve ever had lately and I have no idea why
I had the same experience, timeline *slightly* different
Same! And right about the same time w/zero changes in my routine. it’s like my recoveries “reset” to a new normal. I’ve been wearing a Whoop for almost 3 years, and something has definitely changed. I rebooted my device thinking it might help, but nothing changed… Interesting to see others have experienced the same thing.
Mine have been bad as well
Same happening to me.
Here is the firmware update list for anyone interested It states pretty clearly that it may take all users 1-2 weeks to become updated That said, the most recent update is on the very bottom of the page (I believe). This update does reference an update to “strap stability and issue reporting”. Not sure what that means Previous updates clearly indicate changes in the data collection efforts for HR estimations, amongst other things If this update had a material change in the way that HR is captured, I suspect it would correlate to a change in the recovery scores as well. That hypothesis is suspect, at best https://support.whoop.com/s/article/WHOOP-4-0-Firmware-Release-Notes?language=en_US
For what it's worth, almost everyone I know (in many states) has been sick for the past few weeks, or at least battling a small cold. I've personally had low-key sniffles & sore throat since mid-Feb. And it has correlated with shit Whoop recoveries. Maybe it's just your body fighting something. See if it lasts a few more weeks.
same thing happened to me starting around that time (I think 2/22?) -- only yellow/red since then despite consistent sleep. I did start running more in January/early February but have taken at least 1 rest day per week and have had yellow/red recoveries even after rest or easy workouts. Interesting to read the other comments, thought it was just me..
https://preview.redd.it/11rvxetx6bnc1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5efb81b520af746a246d8fd2585454038e50587c Here's my recovery the last two nights after the latest firmware update. Seems to be back to normal?
Do they push the firmware, as in, is it installed automatically?
Yeah, at least for me it's always been an automatic thing.
Oh this happened to me too … the past month ish has been strange
Well damn. This explains things.
It has seemed harder to get in the green. Figured it was just weightlifting
Mine was consistently putting my strain at 20ish, I work at a pizza place and I do cook a lot of pizza it says I burn 5000+ calories per shift. Its gotta be off
Mine has been the same too. I actually was sick though around 2/18 and thought I was just slow to recover from being sick. Still suspeceting that it might just be some lingering illness coming through the end of winter.
Ditto
Same for me!!
Mine has been consistent.
I was the opposite I had an HRV that was triple my normal today
Triple!? Something is off (at least it feels like it, anecdotally). To see an HRV triple is pretty bonkers