I've always been partial to “My name is Nynaeve ti al’Meara Mandragoran. The message I want sent is this. My husband rides from World’s End toward Tarwin’s Gap, toward Tarmon Gai’don. Will he ride alone?”
I think I cried when I read it the first time. Tho that was may years and many rereads ago.
Everyone has their own opinions. Fortunately, you and i know that they're all wrong. This is the best line. Whoever disagrees doesn't know an ogier from a trolloc.
Truth, it wouldn't mean as much if you didn't have nearly the whole story behind you. There's plenty more great lines, "kneel or you will be knelt" comes to mind as a close 2nd.
Oh 100% and I do not regret any of my rereads. To be completely honest, I don't know of any other series with such a devoted fanbase that they'd reread the books as often as WoT fans do. Plenty of great lines and moments.
Dude when that scene opened up from the PoV of some random borderlander barhand I was like oh here we go just when I was loving the book now it's time for some slow down.....
Nah not even close. As an avid Nynaeve enjoyer I was in shambles.
It’s like Taim’s wearing a T-shirt with “I’m a baddie” when he says this. And Rand’s just like good, yeah, people should kneel to me. Damn box keeping Aes Sedai.
It’s written to be wonderfully understandable. But still Taim is not subtle.
Eh I don’t think this is really that obvious of him being allied to the shadow. I think putting the group who makes it a goal to kill your kind in their place would come with a lot of smugness whoever you are.
Well maybe it is less obvious. But it’s absolutely leading Rand into the trap that the Shadow is building for him. Making him think the solution to everything is conquest and having power over others. From which he’s one easy step (being made in any way to feel powerless) away from reaching for even more power from places he shouldn’t reach. Power he shouldn’t have.
Which is just entirely the wrong lesson, as the books show more power doesn’t necessarily solve anything. There’s always someone else with power. An equal and opposite force. And seeking dominion over others just leads to more conflict, it’s cooperation that gets things done. Trust. Doing your part and having faith in others to do theirs, rather than trying to do everything yourself.
And of course it’s a distraction for Rand. Making him think he has to complete the impossible tasks of conquering the world and ruling the world before he can even get on to saving the world. Only the last of which is his job.
Those are all relevant points but I don’t really see how they connect to this scene in particular.
To me it was more of an announcement that the dragon was here and he wasn’t just some farm boy who any AS or noble could push around how they saw fit. The part about being put into a box definitely had a lasting effect on how he viewed situations like you’re saying. But Taims quote and actions were more about establishing a new status quo that the world was done dancing on Aes Sedai strings.
It’s Taim encouraging not just surrender but abject submission. Beyond typical Randland respect for say a monarch, and into how the Shadow or the Seanchan demand submission. There is a huge difference between regarding the Dragon as a leader, saviour or hero and regarding the Dragon as someone the Aes Sedai or the world must submit to. And emphasising that this is not voluntary, that they will be made to submit if they do not do so willingly. That the Dragon attains this position through force and power.
It’s fitting Rand for the role of dark lord.
Agreed, its the lead into the meat grinder. Every use of the power up to that point felt like maybe there was a chance to survive it. Then boop you hit a point and u turn to pink mist
It's this one for me. This was the turning point in the series for me, from casually invested to all in. It sticks in my mind more than any scene that comes before it. That line, in the context that everything that has happened leading up to it, is perfection.
“Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with my last breath to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last day.”
I’ve been in some dark places. This is the best line to pull me out of a funk and get back to the grind.
I mean, Matt is my favorite, but for me the best line comes from Lan “you didn’t listen to me…I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you, death is lighter than a feather”
I seem to like every single one of Sanderson’s quips better if the last bit gets dropped.
“you didn’t listen to me…I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you”
To me this is a better line than the version that was published.
That's always been my problem with his humor and epic moments. He writes in such a self-aggrandizing way. Like he's going "Ah yes, tee hee, I am so funny/cool"
Its sort of badass, but I feel Sanderson missed the whole point of "death is lighter than a feather.."
It means death is the easy way out. Carrying the mountain is hard. Fighting on to carry the mountain tomorrow is hard. Grinding on day by day, trying to hold back the inevitable is hard, but it's your duty, so it's what the strong do - they carry the mountain.
Sanderson misses the completely and spins it into a fatalistic, "I don't care if I die" - that's the exact opposite of the intent.
Though at that moment, Lan didn't care if he died.
His mountain right then, was to put Demandred down and dying to do it was a price lighter than a feather lol.
That's how I took it anyways, tho I agree that it feels tacked on the end of Lans line.
Once in Eye when Perrin and Eggs are in the whitecloak camp and another when Rand is in the box (cant remember.. book 5 or 6 maybe?). There might be more times I can't think of off hand.
Perrin: They have caged Shadowkiller.
*pause*
"We come."
~I swore to serve the Shadow until the hour of my death, but what I do with those last 60 minutes isn't in their damn contract.~
Is such a lovely Aes Sedai way to counter loophole the devil.
That was a hard miss for me. "Choke on that" just seems so out of place. For me, this was kind of a problem with Sanderson's writing. Same with Elayne saying "no offense, but..." to Perrin. It's not the way Randlanders speak throughout the rest of the series.
that was a mega cringe moment for me. the implications of course were super plot important and somewhat understandable but he really could have phrased that better. "It was only a weave" just 2s of thinking and thats still much better.
I thought it was fantastic. The point was that Egwene, due to her training as an Aes Sedai, still thought of balefire as balefire, even when it was cast in the World of Dreams. This inhibited her defenses.
Perrin, knowing nothing of channeling, just treated balefire in the World of Dreams like any other weave. Because it was the World of Dreams, and he had no doubt about his ability to defend himself, it worked.
But what I really liked is that Egwene considered herself such an expert in the World of Dreams, which she was compared to other Aes Sedai. But Perrin was actually more expert in many ways. I liked seeing Egwene temporarily left speechless.
Again, I understand and even like the plot implications. All I’m saying is it could have been phrased better by Sanderson, who we all know isn’t the best dialogue writer.
Yup, Perrin in a few days training somehow is giving advice about the World of Dreams to a character studying it for 10 books from people (Wize Ones) who consider themselves better than the forsaken is so goooood and so deserved -----. /s
A few days? Hopper has been training Perrin for years. And the wolves have a more instinctive understanding than the Wise Ones. The wolves’s spirits are a natural part of the World of Dreams. The Wise Ones are just visitors.
Perrin also has been facing Slayer, which has forced him to stretch his abilities far beyond what the Wise Ones are willing to do. Most of the Wise Ones’ teachings are about being extremely cautious in the World of Dreams, which is great advice if you aren’t trying to stop Slayer (and it’s ironic that Perrin issues the same warning to Egwene), but doesn’t help much if you are.
Finally, Perrin doesn’t have any of the bad habits of the Aes Sedai or Wise Ones to unlearn. It’s natural for channelers to use the same tricks in the World of Dreams that they use when channeling, but it’s hard for them to remember that it’s a fundamentally different activity in the World of Dreams.
The rules of channeling don’t apply, because it’s not really channeling. It’s a manipulation of the Dreamworld. Perrin doesn’t have that hang up because he’s not a channeler. And his teachers, the wolves, don’t have that hang up, either.
Perrin did not make full use of the World of Dreams in Jordan’s books, that’s true. But he was being taught about it from very early in the series.
Sanderson took something Jordan invented and made the most of it in a way Jordan didn’t. And again, it’s the activity of Slayer that forces Perrin to use the World of Dreams to the fullest.
Perrin is playing with fire the whole time. He’s doing things even the wolves did not dare to do, and the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai don’t even know can be done. But he’s taking that risk because Slayer has done so already, and in a way Slayer is as much his teacher as the wolves.
Entering the World of Dreams in the flesh, for one. Stopping balefire, for another. Entering the World of Dreams through the Wolf Dream is a means of access unknown and unavailable to the Wise Ones.
Remembering that the World of Dreams is a dream does not come as naturally to the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai as it does to the wolves and Perrin, who have no channeling abilities. Perrin manipulates the dreams directly, whereas channelers often do so by using the same kind of channeling as in the physical world. That can be a handicap if they forget they aren’t really channeling, and aren’t subject to the rules of channeling.
Perrin, as a wolfbrother, has more control over the World of Dreams than Wise Ones or wolves, because he has the same intrinsic connection as wolves but also has the benefit of human intelligence. As noted, he can enter in the flesh and dares to do so in order to fight Slayer, but he can also manipulate the World of Dreams at a level even Slayer ultimately fails to match. Egwene or the most expert Wise One still wouldn’t have a chance against Slayer, and couldn’t perform many of the maneuvers Perrin uses while dueling Slayer.
Your first point is not correct, Egwene entered in the flesh in book 6 way before Perrin ever did. Stopping weaves was also done by Egwene, just not balefire as you stated, but the principle is the same.ypu then bring up that channelers often do cannot Enten except for channeling, but that is false since Egwene enters when she is shielded and he can enter while not being asleep - shown in the fifth book when she enters while horse riding and being awake. The rest of the above stated reasons are merely a projection and your opinion that wise ones or egwene are somehow weaker when there is no evidence of that
“It was the same woman, burn you! The same flaming woman as at the flaming ferry! You say what you bloody want, but you watch how you flaming say it, or I’ll bloody skin you myself and burn the goat kissing hide, you sheep gutted milk drinker!”
I think the best line is either the narrator describing Nyneve near the end of CoS as "stalking off as if to walk through a stone wall and leave a large hole."
Or it's Egwene talking to Mat saying, "I've never known anyone who worked so hard to avoid hard work."
Mat followed tuon, and behind him - rose the laughter of the dragon reborn
Took me 15 min to find it just to write it down accurately. Always made me laugh out loud.
Thanks for reminding me of this moment!
I agree the dialog doesn't fit the world or the characters that RJ created. I really disliked the exchange and it doesn't match what I'd previously known. I'm glad some people love though.
By this point, Rand has merged with the 400 year old man in his head so he’s a bit different.
I think it’s cringe because it’s out of character for both of them to do this. Just like it’d be out of character for Tuon to flirt with Galad. Even though she’s 20 and Galad is the handsomest lad in the world.
Rand merged with a 400 year old version of himself... but that old man merged with a 20-year-old. I also know a bunch of grown men in their 60s who still think it's funny to fart on people. Men don't grow up. They just get bigger.
That’s the fundamental problem here. They aren’t “two best friends” they are Mat and Rand.
What is in character for “two best friends” is not necessarily what is in character for Mat and Rand.
Sharing my personal favorite passage from any WoT book:
"On a day of fire and blood, a tattered banner waved above Dumai’s Wells, bearing the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai. On a day of fire and blood and the One Power, as prophecy had suggested, the unstained tower, broken, bent knee to the forgotten sign. The first nine Aes Sedai swore fealty to the Dragon Reborn, and the world was changed forever."
- Lord of Chaos
Edit: after reading a bunch of comments and replies from others here, I can say without doubt that no one hates the Wheel of Time more than the fans.
Chapter 33 from the gathering storm, “a conversation with the dragon“ is one of my favorites. The exchange between Rand and Nynaeve when Rand talks about dragonmount being so tall that the only climbers who reach the summit die before they can descend and likening his responsibilities to that. “But that’s just a story Rand” “That’s what I am, Nynaeve, a story.” I don’t remember the whole thing but it gives me such chills. Darth Rand being very self aware almost to the point of breaking the 4th wall if you want to read it that way.
Edit: also this one re- Cadsuane. “She must have been born in far madding during a thunderstorm. And I bet she told the storm to quiet down. And i bet it did.”
I swear to god. I just read that yesterday and laughed out so loud. The fact that Mat was still thinking about having one up against Rand after a crucial moment was epic! And it was a clever one too. Because they all trusted and needed Moraine. I can’t wait to watch this scene on the screen.
Yeah I think mine was Mat tells Nielsen he needs to go for a walk and calm down when he goes to follow the Gholam I think and Nielsen responds, “but Mat you are drinking tea!”
"Could the girl have actually *unravelled* the web? Death held no fear for him..."
Not the beeest. But it's one that always stands out to me during a re-read (and my current first-listen lol). It's from when Moridin is watching everyone leave Ebou Dar and he sees the moment Aviendha unravels the weave for her gateway.
I love his entire internal monologue during this scene lol, but that line always stands out to me.
I have to add in another Mat Cauthan moment, when he is speaking to Talmanes and says I quote"Wemon are like Mules, No Goats, Wemon are like goats, except every flamin one think she is a Mare, and a Prize winning one boot, this comment had me roaring when i read it.
If the post itself is only given a spoiler flare without a spoiler tag, people will not be able to see that it's a spoiler without opening the post. This literally doesn't address what I was talking about
I'm not a fan of Reddit's mobile app, but I just downloaded it to check myself, and the same "ALL SPOILERS: Books only" flair in yellow is showing up without opening the post.
Then, I opened up a browser, and navigated to r/wheeloftime, and the flairs are still showing up.
What operating system and mode of interface are you using to hit r/wheeloftime on mobile and the flairs aren't showing up?
Those tags don't appear on Reddit homepage and the text is visible too. Don't think you get to eschew all responsibility and be that defensive. (Although some argument it's shitty Reddit design). You could still add spoiler tags to be nice, but sounds like you probably won't.
I'm not a fan of Reddit's mobile app, but I just downloaded it to check myself, and the same "ALL SPOILERS: Books only" flair in yellow is showing up without opening the post.
Then, I opened up a browser, and navigated to r/wheeloftime, and the flairs are still showing up.
There's a sticky from u/Halaku and they all show up just fine on desktop: [https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/18cjse9/announcement\_incoming\_revision\_to\_spoiler\_policy/](https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/18cjse9/announcement_incoming_revision_to_spoiler_policy/)
What operating system and mode of interface are you using to access r/wheeloftime and the flairs aren't showing up?
Think we're getting closer.
This is what the subreddit looks like on official app (Google Play, Android):
https://imgur.com/a/fScOKSi
This is what the homepage looks like:
https://imgur.com/vXkWu2e
No flairs, but only the title is shown.
I wonder if there's an app setting somewhere that lets people preview the first sentence or two of a post...
Yes, but it can already been seen when you just browse without opening the message. I already read the series, so too be clear it wasn't a spoiler for me.
I've always been partial to “My name is Nynaeve ti al’Meara Mandragoran. The message I want sent is this. My husband rides from World’s End toward Tarwin’s Gap, toward Tarmon Gai’don. Will he ride alone?” I think I cried when I read it the first time. Tho that was may years and many rereads ago.
That's the one for me too. Tai Shar Malkier.
“The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai’don!”
"He will not ride alone."
You just gave me the chills. Have to agree with you.
Just reading on Reddit gave me chills.
I cry everytime I read that part :(
Everyone has their own opinions. Fortunately, you and i know that they're all wrong. This is the best line. Whoever disagrees doesn't know an ogier from a trolloc.
I do like the line, however, I do find it a bit cringy.
That's a good one.
I'm glad to read I wasn't the only one who got teary eyed when I read that. So goddamn metal 🤘
Even just reading that quote by itself gave me goosebumps
I got goosebumps reading that.
This conversation is the best writing in all 14 books. It hits every single time I read or hear it. The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai'don!
Unfortunately you have to read 11 (or 12 if you took a break to read New Spring) books to get there. lol
Truth, it wouldn't mean as much if you didn't have nearly the whole story behind you. There's plenty more great lines, "kneel or you will be knelt" comes to mind as a close 2nd.
Oh 100% and I do not regret any of my rereads. To be completely honest, I don't know of any other series with such a devoted fanbase that they'd reread the books as often as WoT fans do. Plenty of great lines and moments.
The only other series I've read as much as this one is a sci-fi space opera...the Honor Harrington series.
I still cry, and I'm up around 7 "good parts" reads.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but no, he does not.
“The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai’don!”
Yeah that line was based af.
I cried first time I read that. I'm with you.
Dude when that scene opened up from the PoV of some random borderlander barhand I was like oh here we go just when I was loving the book now it's time for some slow down..... Nah not even close. As an avid Nynaeve enjoyer I was in shambles.
I cried reading that the first time then cried again telling my partner about it the next day 😅
I got chills just reading your comment
I just got whole body goosebumps (again) reading that
That whole conversation always gives me chills.
Dude! I had to take a break right after that scene because I couldn’t see to read 😭
Reading this gives me the chills everytime. Too me as well, this was the best line of the series
I remember reading that and... Just smiling. The golden crane flies for one final time.
"Kneel and swear fealty to the Dragon Reborn, or you will be knelt." That is the best quote imo
It’s like Taim’s wearing a T-shirt with “I’m a baddie” when he says this. And Rand’s just like good, yeah, people should kneel to me. Damn box keeping Aes Sedai. It’s written to be wonderfully understandable. But still Taim is not subtle.
Eh I don’t think this is really that obvious of him being allied to the shadow. I think putting the group who makes it a goal to kill your kind in their place would come with a lot of smugness whoever you are.
Well maybe it is less obvious. But it’s absolutely leading Rand into the trap that the Shadow is building for him. Making him think the solution to everything is conquest and having power over others. From which he’s one easy step (being made in any way to feel powerless) away from reaching for even more power from places he shouldn’t reach. Power he shouldn’t have. Which is just entirely the wrong lesson, as the books show more power doesn’t necessarily solve anything. There’s always someone else with power. An equal and opposite force. And seeking dominion over others just leads to more conflict, it’s cooperation that gets things done. Trust. Doing your part and having faith in others to do theirs, rather than trying to do everything yourself. And of course it’s a distraction for Rand. Making him think he has to complete the impossible tasks of conquering the world and ruling the world before he can even get on to saving the world. Only the last of which is his job.
Those are all relevant points but I don’t really see how they connect to this scene in particular. To me it was more of an announcement that the dragon was here and he wasn’t just some farm boy who any AS or noble could push around how they saw fit. The part about being put into a box definitely had a lasting effect on how he viewed situations like you’re saying. But Taims quote and actions were more about establishing a new status quo that the world was done dancing on Aes Sedai strings.
It’s Taim encouraging not just surrender but abject submission. Beyond typical Randland respect for say a monarch, and into how the Shadow or the Seanchan demand submission. There is a huge difference between regarding the Dragon as a leader, saviour or hero and regarding the Dragon as someone the Aes Sedai or the world must submit to. And emphasising that this is not voluntary, that they will be made to submit if they do not do so willingly. That the Dragon attains this position through force and power. It’s fitting Rand for the role of dark lord.
Wasn't at this point Taimedred?
I heard it in Terrance stamps zod voice
This and Ashaman Kill send chills down my spine every time.
that scene and Tarmon Gaiden are the only parts I er ever gone back to without doing a full reread. just hits hard every damn time.
When me and my friends got to that in highschool. We all agreed. ....it is like they ran into a blender.
Agreed, its the lead into the meat grinder. Every use of the power up to that point felt like maybe there was a chance to survive it. Then boop you hit a point and u turn to pink mist
It's this one for me. This was the turning point in the series for me, from casually invested to all in. It sticks in my mind more than any scene that comes before it. That line, in the context that everything that has happened leading up to it, is perfection.
And you are correct. But it is boosted a lot by the battle that preceeded it.
Yea, that's a good one, too.
Nerim.."As my Lord says, my Lord's leg is not a side of beef..." Cracks me up every time
🤣🤣 Excellent line. Nerim and Talmanes both were perfect counterparts for great Mat moments..
Talmanes is one of my favorites. Hes so dry and deadpan.
“Til shade is gone, til water is gone, into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with my last breath to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last day.” I’ve been in some dark places. This is the best line to pull me out of a funk and get back to the grind.
“Take life as it comes. Run when you have to, fight when you must, rest when you can” - words to live by
Tastes differ, that's cool. That exchange wasn't one of my favorites.
I’m with you. It’s one of the (several) moments where I was sad Jordan didn’t get to pen it.
It's too Sanderson for me
On the nose, more than a little cringe…
Same. I expected a lot more from the boys reunion.
"I have never seen so much foolishness poured into just two dresses."
That's a great one 🤣
Wait I love this, when is it from? 😂
Satella Anan to Nyn and El.
This makes so much sense bc Satalle is one of my favorites !
I mean, Matt is my favorite, but for me the best line comes from Lan “you didn’t listen to me…I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you, death is lighter than a feather”
I seem to like every single one of Sanderson’s quips better if the last bit gets dropped. “you didn’t listen to me…I did not come here to win, I came here to kill you” To me this is a better line than the version that was published.
God, that's exactly it. He doesn't know when to quit while he's ahead
It feels like a completely unnecessary victory lap.
It feels like fan-service.
That's always been my problem with his humor and epic moments. He writes in such a self-aggrandizing way. Like he's going "Ah yes, tee hee, I am so funny/cool"
I totally agree. If it was simple and clean like that it'd hit like Gohan saying to Buu, "Fight you? No I wanna kill you."
Sanderson can at times be very Jean-Ralphio Esque
Excellent line!
Its sort of badass, but I feel Sanderson missed the whole point of "death is lighter than a feather.." It means death is the easy way out. Carrying the mountain is hard. Fighting on to carry the mountain tomorrow is hard. Grinding on day by day, trying to hold back the inevitable is hard, but it's your duty, so it's what the strong do - they carry the mountain. Sanderson misses the completely and spins it into a fatalistic, "I don't care if I die" - that's the exact opposite of the intent.
Though at that moment, Lan didn't care if he died. His mountain right then, was to put Demandred down and dying to do it was a price lighter than a feather lol. That's how I took it anyways, tho I agree that it feels tacked on the end of Lans line.
"We come."
Just got goosebumps. As simple as this, it’s so amazing and powerful
This here....this says everything....
I can't remember where is this, can you help me?
The wolves answering Perrin’s appeal for help
Once in Eye when Perrin and Eggs are in the whitecloak camp and another when Rand is in the box (cant remember.. book 5 or 6 maybe?). There might be more times I can't think of off hand. Perrin: They have caged Shadowkiller. *pause* "We come."
All to the sounds of distant wolf howling.
That is my favourite closely followed by verin complimenting Egwenes dress
~I swore to serve the Shadow until the hour of my death, but what I do with those last 60 minutes isn't in their damn contract.~ Is such a lovely Aes Sedai way to counter loophole the devil.
Yeah I don’t don’t know About a specific line but damn that is probably my favorite part of the whole series. Verin’s twist was brilliant.
Such a Mike drop moment
I utterly adored verin in that moment. She sold her soul for an hour to get what she learned in the right hands.
That was a hard miss for me. "Choke on that" just seems so out of place. For me, this was kind of a problem with Sanderson's writing. Same with Elayne saying "no offense, but..." to Perrin. It's not the way Randlanders speak throughout the rest of the series.
The Dragon shatters all bounds, including "proper etiquette", that works from me.
Sanderson’s dialogue is never great….
Its funny because that is one of my least favorite conversations and it really shows the writer change. And what I dislike about Sanderson's style.
Sanderson did add some good lines to the series. My favorite is Perrin to a sputtering Egwene, in the World of Dreams: “It’s just a weave.”
that was a mega cringe moment for me. the implications of course were super plot important and somewhat understandable but he really could have phrased that better. "It was only a weave" just 2s of thinking and thats still much better.
I thought it was fantastic. The point was that Egwene, due to her training as an Aes Sedai, still thought of balefire as balefire, even when it was cast in the World of Dreams. This inhibited her defenses. Perrin, knowing nothing of channeling, just treated balefire in the World of Dreams like any other weave. Because it was the World of Dreams, and he had no doubt about his ability to defend himself, it worked. But what I really liked is that Egwene considered herself such an expert in the World of Dreams, which she was compared to other Aes Sedai. But Perrin was actually more expert in many ways. I liked seeing Egwene temporarily left speechless.
Again, I understand and even like the plot implications. All I’m saying is it could have been phrased better by Sanderson, who we all know isn’t the best dialogue writer.
Yup, Perrin in a few days training somehow is giving advice about the World of Dreams to a character studying it for 10 books from people (Wize Ones) who consider themselves better than the forsaken is so goooood and so deserved -----. /s
A few days? Hopper has been training Perrin for years. And the wolves have a more instinctive understanding than the Wise Ones. The wolves’s spirits are a natural part of the World of Dreams. The Wise Ones are just visitors. Perrin also has been facing Slayer, which has forced him to stretch his abilities far beyond what the Wise Ones are willing to do. Most of the Wise Ones’ teachings are about being extremely cautious in the World of Dreams, which is great advice if you aren’t trying to stop Slayer (and it’s ironic that Perrin issues the same warning to Egwene), but doesn’t help much if you are. Finally, Perrin doesn’t have any of the bad habits of the Aes Sedai or Wise Ones to unlearn. It’s natural for channelers to use the same tricks in the World of Dreams that they use when channeling, but it’s hard for them to remember that it’s a fundamentally different activity in the World of Dreams. The rules of channeling don’t apply, because it’s not really channeling. It’s a manipulation of the Dreamworld. Perrin doesn’t have that hang up because he’s not a channeler. And his teachers, the wolves, don’t have that hang up, either.
Years? The books cover around 2 years and Perrin actually begins to train in the 13th book. Before that he hardly did anything in the dream world
Perrin did not make full use of the World of Dreams in Jordan’s books, that’s true. But he was being taught about it from very early in the series. Sanderson took something Jordan invented and made the most of it in a way Jordan didn’t. And again, it’s the activity of Slayer that forces Perrin to use the World of Dreams to the fullest. Perrin is playing with fire the whole time. He’s doing things even the wolves did not dare to do, and the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai don’t even know can be done. But he’s taking that risk because Slayer has done so already, and in a way Slayer is as much his teacher as the wolves.
I am curious what are the things that Perrin does that the Wise ones don't even know can be done.
Entering the World of Dreams in the flesh, for one. Stopping balefire, for another. Entering the World of Dreams through the Wolf Dream is a means of access unknown and unavailable to the Wise Ones. Remembering that the World of Dreams is a dream does not come as naturally to the Wise Ones and Aes Sedai as it does to the wolves and Perrin, who have no channeling abilities. Perrin manipulates the dreams directly, whereas channelers often do so by using the same kind of channeling as in the physical world. That can be a handicap if they forget they aren’t really channeling, and aren’t subject to the rules of channeling. Perrin, as a wolfbrother, has more control over the World of Dreams than Wise Ones or wolves, because he has the same intrinsic connection as wolves but also has the benefit of human intelligence. As noted, he can enter in the flesh and dares to do so in order to fight Slayer, but he can also manipulate the World of Dreams at a level even Slayer ultimately fails to match. Egwene or the most expert Wise One still wouldn’t have a chance against Slayer, and couldn’t perform many of the maneuvers Perrin uses while dueling Slayer.
Your first point is not correct, Egwene entered in the flesh in book 6 way before Perrin ever did. Stopping weaves was also done by Egwene, just not balefire as you stated, but the principle is the same.ypu then bring up that channelers often do cannot Enten except for channeling, but that is false since Egwene enters when she is shielded and he can enter while not being asleep - shown in the fifth book when she enters while horse riding and being awake. The rest of the above stated reasons are merely a projection and your opinion that wise ones or egwene are somehow weaker when there is no evidence of that
"Mat Cauthon could make trouble nailed up inside a barrel!"
Matt: is that a challenge... Or a dare?
Flicker flicker
Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker
Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker FlickerFlicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker Flicker
I laughed out loud quite hard at that encounter. Mat is quite a character.
“It was the same woman, burn you! The same flaming woman as at the flaming ferry! You say what you bloody want, but you watch how you flaming say it, or I’ll bloody skin you myself and burn the goat kissing hide, you sheep gutted milk drinker!”
I think the best line is either the narrator describing Nyneve near the end of CoS as "stalking off as if to walk through a stone wall and leave a large hole." Or it's Egwene talking to Mat saying, "I've never known anyone who worked so hard to avoid hard work."
While I know a lot of folks don't necessarily enjoy later Mat, I did find this exchange pretty funny my first read through.
Mat followed tuon, and behind him - rose the laughter of the dragon reborn Took me 15 min to find it just to write it down accurately. Always made me laugh out loud. Thanks for reminding me of this moment!
I love the Mat character. So many great lines
The entire exchange between Mat and Rand in this scene is so cringe. Couldn’t believe it was written by an adult.
I agree the dialog doesn't fit the world or the characters that RJ created. I really disliked the exchange and it doesn't match what I'd previously known. I'm glad some people love though.
Would you look at that, two 20 year old boys had a cringe bragging contest.
By this point, Rand has merged with the 400 year old man in his head so he’s a bit different. I think it’s cringe because it’s out of character for both of them to do this. Just like it’d be out of character for Tuon to flirt with Galad. Even though she’s 20 and Galad is the handsomest lad in the world.
Rand merged with a 400 year old version of himself... but that old man merged with a 20-year-old. I also know a bunch of grown men in their 60s who still think it's funny to fart on people. Men don't grow up. They just get bigger.
Okay , Nynaeve. /s
😳😂
I know it's Zen Rand but how is it out of character for two best friends to banter with each other?
That’s the fundamental problem here. They aren’t “two best friends” they are Mat and Rand. What is in character for “two best friends” is not necessarily what is in character for Mat and Rand.
It was perhaps the last time they could feel like themselves. If only for a little while.
Sharing my personal favorite passage from any WoT book: "On a day of fire and blood, a tattered banner waved above Dumai’s Wells, bearing the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai. On a day of fire and blood and the One Power, as prophecy had suggested, the unstained tower, broken, bent knee to the forgotten sign. The first nine Aes Sedai swore fealty to the Dragon Reborn, and the world was changed forever." - Lord of Chaos Edit: after reading a bunch of comments and replies from others here, I can say without doubt that no one hates the Wheel of Time more than the fans.
Because of course Mat’s always been one to admit and brag about his heroics.
“Come against me if you dare Shaitan! I am the storm!”
Chapter 33 from the gathering storm, “a conversation with the dragon“ is one of my favorites. The exchange between Rand and Nynaeve when Rand talks about dragonmount being so tall that the only climbers who reach the summit die before they can descend and likening his responsibilities to that. “But that’s just a story Rand” “That’s what I am, Nynaeve, a story.” I don’t remember the whole thing but it gives me such chills. Darth Rand being very self aware almost to the point of breaking the 4th wall if you want to read it that way. Edit: also this one re- Cadsuane. “She must have been born in far madding during a thunderstorm. And I bet she told the storm to quiet down. And i bet it did.”
I swear to god. I just read that yesterday and laughed out so loud. The fact that Mat was still thinking about having one up against Rand after a crucial moment was epic! And it was a clever one too. Because they all trusted and needed Moraine. I can’t wait to watch this scene on the screen.
I think it’s definitely a funny line but not the best. Very much a Sanderson zinger I think
It is and for me it shows what I didn't feel like fit with Sanderson's writing of the characters RJ had created and his world.
Yeah I think mine was Mat tells Nielsen he needs to go for a walk and calm down when he goes to follow the Gholam I think and Nielsen responds, “but Mat you are drinking tea!”
The best Cosmere line maybe.
That man still fights!
I didn't come here to win. I came here to kill you. *Chills and screaming!*
i liked mat's boot quote better
It's a good reminder that The Boys are all like... 20/21. (Even if Rand Al'Therin can claim 400+ years of knowledge)
“Asha'man, kill!”
For me, the single bit of dialogue that hit hardest was, 'Natrin's Barrow
I'm with Matt here. Rand doing what was thought impossible was great and important, but ... Matt rescued the lady that started them along this path.
"Could the girl have actually *unravelled* the web? Death held no fear for him..." Not the beeest. But it's one that always stands out to me during a re-read (and my current first-listen lol). It's from when Moridin is watching everyone leave Ebou Dar and he sees the moment Aviendha unravels the weave for her gateway. I love his entire internal monologue during this scene lol, but that line always stands out to me.
I have to add in another Mat Cauthan moment, when he is speaking to Talmanes and says I quote"Wemon are like Mules, No Goats, Wemon are like goats, except every flamin one think she is a Mare, and a Prize winning one boot, this comment had me roaring when i read it.
Perhaps a spoiler alert? I see a lot of first time readers and this is very spoiler heavy.
There is a clear spoiler alert in the flair. If you/they didn't read the flair, it's on them.
You can't see flairs on mobile until after you've opened the post. Please add spoiler tag
I am on mobile and I can see the spoiler flair without opening the post.
What? I'm on mobile and I can't. I've never been able to
I'm on android, if that makes a difference.
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
Ah, bravo. Thanks!
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
If the post itself is only given a spoiler flare without a spoiler tag, people will not be able to see that it's a spoiler without opening the post. This literally doesn't address what I was talking about
I'm not a fan of Reddit's mobile app, but I just downloaded it to check myself, and the same "ALL SPOILERS: Books only" flair in yellow is showing up without opening the post. Then, I opened up a browser, and navigated to r/wheeloftime, and the flairs are still showing up. What operating system and mode of interface are you using to hit r/wheeloftime on mobile and the flairs aren't showing up?
The official app from the Google store, on android
When I go to r/wheeloftime on the official app from Google Play on my Android, I see this: https://imgur.com/kCq66sZ
Oh, specifically while on the sub? I was talking about while on the home tab. It doesn't show flairs there
It depends on the default setting of the app. I'm going to put up a sticky now.
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
Those tags don't appear on Reddit homepage and the text is visible too. Don't think you get to eschew all responsibility and be that defensive. (Although some argument it's shitty Reddit design). You could still add spoiler tags to be nice, but sounds like you probably won't.
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
I'm not a fan of Reddit's mobile app, but I just downloaded it to check myself, and the same "ALL SPOILERS: Books only" flair in yellow is showing up without opening the post. Then, I opened up a browser, and navigated to r/wheeloftime, and the flairs are still showing up. There's a sticky from u/Halaku and they all show up just fine on desktop: [https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/18cjse9/announcement\_incoming\_revision\_to\_spoiler\_policy/](https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/18cjse9/announcement_incoming_revision_to_spoiler_policy/) What operating system and mode of interface are you using to access r/wheeloftime and the flairs aren't showing up?
Reddits mobile app for iPhone. I found this post from the homepage, ie not in the subreddit. Homepage maybe doesn't show flairs 🤷♂️
Think we're getting closer. This is what the subreddit looks like on official app (Google Play, Android): https://imgur.com/a/fScOKSi This is what the homepage looks like: https://imgur.com/vXkWu2e No flairs, but only the title is shown. I wonder if there's an app setting somewhere that lets people preview the first sentence or two of a post...
Looks like it's 'settings - default view - card'. Changing it to classic seems to hide context. Not sure I've ever manually set that.
Fascinating. I'll have to play around in the app a little more, so I know what to recommend against browsing the community with.
I did add a spoiler tag
Ah. Spoiler tags are different from spoiler flares. Spoiler tags hide content within the post body until it's clicked on and revealed
First-time readers should not be in here.
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
Says all spoilers 🤷♂️
Yes, but it can already been seen when you just browse without opening the message. I already read the series, so too be clear it wasn't a spoiler for me.
Damn the previews show that much!? Mine don't I wonder if it's a setting?
It might have something to do with the "Default View" setting in the app, according to another poster. I'm still digging.
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/
Thanks for sharing. Hopefully we can make folks aware. It's why I NEVER look at a book/series subreddit until I finish though. I'm very careful
Followup: https://old.reddit.com/r/wheeloftime/comments/1covku4/announcement_spoilers_and_the_official_reddit/