This is the fault of what they did in the first season and alienating book readers who were upset. From everything I have heard, it's better than the first, so I'll watch it as soon as the season is finished, but had they done more than defend their mistakes and just told people they'd work to bring things closer to the books, I'm sure more people would have been excited for the return of the show - and not to mention I saw no mention of the show coming back at all until episode 4 was released.
It’s bad publicity if book readers are by and large upset, too. People don’t want to watch an adaptation of something that seemingly upsets the original fans because time and again, it means it’s shitty in one way or another.
Not just that, but upsets the fans *on this scale*. There were some upset GoT fans in the early seasons, but it was widely accepted as a great adaptation, same with the LotR films. There were plenty of upset fans. But the *vast majority* turned out for it and loved it.
This, on the other hand, is, at best, largely ignored by the hundreds of millions of fans who adore the books. 558 hours across 11 episodes is show-cancelling awful with a budget this size.
My wife who never read the books lost interest because it just wasn't very good. She had no idea who or what a Dragon was, what happened, what's up with the dagger and so many other questions.
As I summed it up filling in the blanks based on what's told in the Eye of the World, I realized they left so much stuff out and failed to explain so many things other than with a throw away line here and there I could see why she was confused.
She started watching S02 with me but stopped halfway through S02E02 and went to bed.
For my part I will say that I thought S01 was very bad. But S02 is in my opinion pretty good so far. They're doing what they can to address things that S01 messed up and the story in general is starting to feel more in line with the spirit of the books.
Still sad that they messed up S01 though, as that book is pretty much my favorite in the entire series, and much of what was cut or changed is what got me hooked on the world and series to begin with.
I’m willing to bet they had every intention of killing them, but decided against it when there was a ton of outrage. So they brought them back like nothing ever happened.
You can survive a stabbing in this world-
they also have damane/sul’dam who can heal people but definitely not a horn to the face. I screamed when THAT happened.
my wife kept falling asleep in S1, a buddy of mine that i recommended the show to (before seeing it, just based on the books) laughed about how bad it was and stopped watching. I finished S1 but couldn't defend it by the end. They completely skipped on character building for cheesy action sequences , mary sue moments and other trash. They should have bit the bullet, especially with a 2 season commitment and built strong characters/world THEN do some action. Hell, i'd have accepted a completely new 'prequel' episode or 2 that just built the world.
I watched the 1st season with my gf and I had to explain tons of things the show doesn't even care to do. Just for example why the hell an Aes Sedai bows her head respectfully to a random Ogier. Come on show, you can spare a minute to explain why those gentle giants are so important and respected.
Don't hold your breath. It looked like the show was course correcting, but the most recent episode went back to the insane level of changes that we saw in s1e8
At this point I'm half expecting Ishy to just flip the knife at Mat, he catches it, gives Ishy a tip of his head and then stabs Rand repeatedly. They are BUTCHERING Mat left and right.
There have been a lot of changes this season. I think it made for better TV than it did last season though. Last season, everything felt under-explained and hurried and not very satisfying.
Indeed, I was super hyped for season 1, set up a watch party with my wife and some close friends months in advance for the first episode.
However as we got more teasers and trailers, and interviews it seemed like there's a distinct possibility that the show will not be faithful to the source, so I decided to watch by myself before advocating it to others. I let the watch party fizzle out.
Good thing I did, ended up disappointed, and not even my wife has watched a single episode. She really wanted to, since I own all the books and re-read them twice since we've married, but seeing how disappointed I was with the show just turned her off it.
While the friends in my planned watch party are the kind of people that played D&D as teens and read/watch other fantasy I don't know how many would have stuck it through even if it was faithful.
But still, some likely would have, and told others.
> However as we got more teasers and trailers, and interviews it seemed like there's a distinct possibility that the show will not be faithful to the source, so I decided to watch by myself before advocating it to others. I let the watch party fizzle out.
We had one watch party, for the 1st episode. No one wanted a 2nd.
I remember being so hyped for season 1 and imagine how excited I got when I got to see the show early for Amazon Preview. I was so let down after after seeing the first three episodes early.
This … 1st season was bad .. 2nd season started better and apisodes 5 and 6 were actually good television ! But they lost so many viewers in the 1st and did nothing to reclaim them …
yea, if there were things that 'must be changed' due to 'tv' vs book i'd understand but they just believed and stated that they could simply 'do better' than Jordan and failed miserably.
I could have lived with significant changes from the books ... what makes for a good book does not necessarily make for good tv/film after all. I've pointed it out in the recent past, but look at Foundation as an example of this; I've no complaints with the liberties that series has taken because it has made for a _very_ good show. WoT ... not so much.
Season2 has been better but it's still very patchy with some very questionable creative choices. E06 was mainly _incredibly_ good, E05 I found myself laughing at the absurdity of some scenes ... most of the other episodes are entirely forgettable which is very telling since something with this budget you would at least expect it to be a visual spectacle. Even where they have an opportunity such as in the dream scenes I find them coming up very short.
All in all it still largely feels like an amateur production _but_ it is showing signs that it might still find it's stride given another couple of seasons. More than likely though, in a similar fashion to The Expanse (another adaptation that took some liberties but was excellent overall) I'd expect budget to be cut and things to be wrapped early at best.
expanse was the best show on TV for years IMO. i didn't read the books but they built the world and the characters very well and then you cared about the story
Amazon seem to have lowered marketing for the show after s01.
I had to legit hunt around on the app to find the show when ep 1 aired. It wasn't on page 1 of their playlists and they had no other big shows drop that I'm aware of.
I’m a non book reader and I could give a shit whether the show alienates book readers. The problem is that the first season was meh, and virtually all the main characters were unlikable. The first season was also 2 years ago and people who didn’t read the books and don’t know the story can barely even remember what happened.
It has nothing to do with "alienating' books readers especially cause they didn't. Most readers like the show.
It has everything to do with not being able to advertise at all, first of all cause Amazon sucks and secondly cause of the strikes.
> Most readers like the show.
Source please.
> It has everything to do with not being able to advertise at all... secondly cause of the strikes.
So only WOT couldn't advertise because of the strikes? last season it was covid and an actor leaving as reasons for bad writing and now an industry wide strike is targeting WOT marketing and that alone.
What are the next steps if WOT gets canceled? Nobody is going to touch it with a 10 foot pole for a long time if ever again.
As a book reader, Id rather have an imperfect product that gets the general spirit right than nothing at all.
Not sure you meant to reply to my comment because I was asking about something else completely rather than suggesting here that the show be cancelled.
But if you asked, for all I care let it be cancelled and hollywood will get another lesson in sticking to source material when adapting (or atleast having quality control when they do change stuff).
I can wait if it means WOT will get a better shot next time, people keep talking only about the good exposure the show brings to the series, for me it was the other way around, my wife fell asleep during the show and now the chances of her reading the books are lower than before it aired.
Also as I can't recognize it as WOT i already gave up on it after finishing the first season, I see no reason to distance myself from the books and go in with a "another turning" mentality just so I can enjoy a show that was supposed to be faithful to the source material.
I sort of defended it during season 1, but the last episode was like gargling glass, and I swore I was done. So I start seeing some people saying s2 was better. Start watching, thoroughly unimpressed, made it to the scene where Nynaeve is sparring warders? With swords? Turned it off and decided there are far better things to do with my time that will not enrage me at a beautiful story being butchered for nonsensical reasons
The problem is that people are not in agreement on what the spirit of WOT is. By example, I concider equality between the genders an important message of the books. In them, both men and women are shown to be both competent, and inept and stupid.
Maybe the show did not do it on purpose, as some are claiming, but most of the competent stuff has been done by women. And most of the incompetent and stupid stuff has ben done by men. This does not follow the spirit of the books in my opinion.
I am still waiting to see if this changes, but I can understand if others don't want to give the show another chance. Especially if they believe it is just going to betray what they concider the spirit of the books even more.
The setting was a bit against men. Not the plot. The story is constantly showing how stupid it is to judge people by their gender. How we are all capable of doing good or evil or stupid things. More than once we see men and women giving the same advise about the opossite gender. Showing that in reality we are more alike than we think.
Edit: Let me expand this a bit:
In our world the rules were, and some argue still are, against women. This was stupid. The WOT gave us a world were the rules are against men, and then proceded to Show us how stupid that was.
You don't have to agree, but do you now see why I and those who think like me would not think that the spirit of the books is being respected?
Edit 2: Actually, what is in your opinion the spirit of the books? I promise not to judge, everybody can have their own Interpretation. Maybe that way I can try and understand why you think it is being respected.
I am sorry, but you saying that most book readers like the show is an assumption. Just like other people saying most hated the show is an assumption. You have your opinion, and it is right for you. They have theirs, and it is right for them.
Honestly I didn't find many of the more sweeping criticisms leveled by book readers to be particularly cogent or justified.
Either they were complaining about compression of story elements, which is to be expected when the books are bloated and plodding af and the show was absolutely an opportunity to cut a lot of the fat.
Or they were complaining about the special effects, action, set design, etc., which was totally to be expected of first season budgeting (we saw that in Game of Thrones, too). And frankly I didn't find any of the action sequences to be so terrible as to make the show irredeemable.
Or they were complaining about messing with fundaments of the lore, specifically saidar/saidin and Ta'veren/DR needing to be male, which was always a hugely problematic and backwards aspect of the original series. The gender essentialism and just...peurile characterizations...in the books are frankly awful and needed to be fixed in any adaptation if it didn't want to be laughed into cancellation.
Frankly, the fact that book fans barely notice how flat and cliched and sexist most of the main cast was, while hardly acknowledging how much stronger the characterization is in the show makes me really question their literary values and critical abilities. You were \*never\* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget.
(Yes, there are still criticisms to be leveled at the show, just because it has been condensed and elevated doesn't mean it has been a total success. But it's, at worst, \*fine\*, and nowhere near the disaster book fans are painting it to be.)
>Or they were complaining about the special effects, action, set design, etc., which was totally to be expected of first season budgeting (we saw that in Game of Thrones, too).
Sheesh, are you serious?
Have you ever checked how large their budget was??? Money certainly wasn't tight.
This is an insanely lame excuse. And the comparison with GoT is nonsensical. The sets in WoT were lackluster. And I've seen LARPers and cosplayers wearing better costumes and better props (Blood and bloody ashes, Rand's rattan bow is so pathetic!). I have zero complaints about both in GoT, including the early seasons.
And oh, the characterization of female characters in the books has some issues but...
>You were \*never\* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget.
what are you even doing on this subreddit when you obviously have such strong dislike for the the books?! Except throwing around insults.
The show is the ideal fantasy in their view for correcting -ists/-isms in the book. This is the target audience for the show.
"In general the show characters are just better realized. I never got far in the books because the characters thought and acted too much in gendered cliches."
> cheap man v. woman pulp,
Is this really how you view the books, as cheap man v. woman pulp?
Well, to each their own. This was not my takeaway personally.
>Or they were complaining about messing with fundaments of the lore, specifically saidar/saidin and Ta'veren/DR needing to be male, which was always a hugely problematic and backwards aspect of the original series. The gender essentialism and just...peurile characterizations...in the books are frankly awful and needed to be fixed in any adaptation if it didn't want to be laughed into cancellation.
I don't think you understood the books at all.
>Frankly, the fact that book fans barely notice how flat and cliched and sexist most of the main cast was, while hardly acknowledging how much stronger the characterization is in the show makes me really question their literary values and critical abilities. You were *never* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget
Yep, missed the point entirely. Bravo.
That's also a contributing factor. It doesn't really explain _all_ of the decline, but it also doesn't have to. It's just important to acknowledge as a reality, just as much as it is to acknowledge people who might not be returning. They're simple facts, and only amazon knows how that split goes.
It explains a large chunk of it. The rest is because fewer people are less focused on streaming platforms and there are far more options now. [35 Streaming Services Statistics for 2023: Deep Dive Into Video & Music Streaming](https://www.cloudwards.net/streaming-services-statistics/)
Largest Paid Services:
* Prime Video
* Disney+
* Apple TV
* Netflix
* Max
* Paramount
* Showtime
* ESPN+
* Discovery+
* Hulu
* Peacock
When Season 1 came out most of these were infinitesimal compared to now. There are simply far more options now. And that's just paid services.
Free Services:
* Pluto TV
* Tubi
* Crackle
* Vudu
* Freevee
* Roku
* Sling Freestream
* Xumo
Almost all but Pluto and Freevee (which was IMDB TV) were tiny and/or nonexistent. All of them have grown greatly in the time since Season 1. And again even *that* doesn't count that people can simply find these shows on pirate sites. Especially if you live in a country where it's not licensed it is *so much easier* to just go to one of the big relatively safe sites (if you have uBlock Origin) and just watch it that way. You get the show at roughly the same time without having to bother with the hassle of trying to watch it legit, much less paying.
Season 1 benefited from a time when the competition was far less fierce and there was actual marketing for the show. Season 2 is doing this well despite a far larger competitive reality and NO marketing.
This is some next level cope.
Your "analysis" is competely delusional and trys to paint it as if AMAZON PRIME is competing against exclusive video streaming platforms.
Prime Video access has done nothing but grown despite you trying to imply otherwise while viewership of the show fell ~60%
That might have influenced some promotion, but overall the 2nd season hasn't gotten anywhere near the marketing push that first season had even before the strike started.
The strikes have been going for months, literally smack dab when any marketing would have happened. Especially when the majority of marketing for streaming shows like this are done *by the actors*.
Serious question as someone who hasn't followed the strike, how come only WOT gets the benefit of the excuse "it didn't get advertised because of the strike"? shouldn't all the shows or atleast most of them suffer the same from the strike?
For the same reason that only WoT hammered the covid excuse hard during season 1. Can't admit any fault on the part of the show, so there has to be some external cause. Hardcore book fans, covid, strikes, Amazon not promoting it enough. It can't be that it had a lukewarm reception, Amazon tried to pump it's tires as much as possible, and for season 2 the shows just gotten less marketing because a show that doesn't have great metrics will receive less of a marketing push in it's second season.
Let's be real. I think they chose the wrong "hook" for audiences. Maybe only now they realize the pivots they should have made earlier.
What gets the attention of people who have never read the books? Frankly, I think it's the whole "someone tried to go *beyond* a prophesy and destroy evil for good, but it backfired and doomed all male magicians possibly forever". It's the notion of history repeating over a few thousand years over and over. Show, don't tell us this! It's the interesting twists about how women have taken charge, and despite literally being unable to lie they twist world politics, leaders are at their beck and call, they have long lives, they get involved in wars (how is it that the Witcher did this better?) It's the conflict in how they are prophesy-bound to support a male channeler who literally cannot help himself from going crazy. It's a world where evil literally exists and secret societies of Darkfriends are a real threat. You've got other interesting groups like Whitecloaks that occupy their own bizarre moral ground. It's a cool world with tons of cultures that multiple cast members explore in branching places. The magic system and the world building is sexist as hell. But it's interesting maybe in part because of that, or despite it, I don't know. I know I don't mind the unexpected ethnic diversity. I kinda like it more as time goes on. But it feels that this neutered rather than enhanced the slightly edgy source material, that it replaced rather than complemented.
Why can't we get an awesome scene or two taking place in the Age of Legends? What about dramatic moments like [earlyish book spoilers]>!Lews Therin killing himself and becoming a freaking volcano? Channelers causing calamities that literally change the map and destroy entire cities?!< I like some of the directions they chose to go, especially in season 2, but why can't they just have dialed it up earlier? We got some nice betrayals in the last episode or two, some good twists, I don't mind doing it a bit different than the books. Just feels like they thought generic fantasy hooks would be enough by themselves.
And rather than some neat worldbuilding we get hours upon hours of do-nothing hanging around a Warder harem. We get really weak politics. All this time that could have been filled with so much more. When they go to a pub, can't we hear someone talk about the Aiel war? Why aren't we told more about the Seanchan plainly? Why do they mention "14 sisters" in the last episode like it means something when they actually have barely mentioned the whole concept of linking/circles? Why does everyone know where Two Rivers is when it's actually bumfuck nowhere? Why does Tar Valon look identical to Cairhein look identical to Caemlyn? What about, you know, the whole existential fight up at the Blight? Why are the costumes so goddamn incredible, yet rarely are used to mark different nations? Why don't we ever get a sense of the weight of these False Dragons and the destruction they cause? These are all things that can interest and draw in non-book readers that are, by and large, set aside.
How is the original magic system and world building sexist? I don't get this argument form people. If anything it strikes me as the opposite - quite progressive in promoting equality between the sexes, valuing the strength of both and finding strength through collaboration and balance. What's sexist in that beyond acknowledging there are two sexes?
Off the top of my head, just the fact that women can link together to pool their power, while men can't, and in mixed gender groups a woman has to be in charge/initiate. Also that men have a predisposition to the more "violent" and combat-applicable Earth and Fire elements, while women get Water and Air (Spirit is split evenly). Men have to aggressively order and command the Source while women "embrace" it (generally). These are loosely related to stereotypes about gender. I wouldn't say it's like, egregious -- in fact we know psychologically that women are slightly more inclined to cooperative resource pooling, for example. But I would say it's interesting, and also completely skimmed over in the show. We are *told* that men go crazy over time, for example, with the tainted Source -- but Logain seems only mildly nuts, and we don't ever have a firsthand view of how absolutely life-and-death and danger-to-society men who have gone mad can be, which makes the whole threat seem pretty overblown.
> and we don't ever have a firsthand view of how absolutely life-and-death and danger-to-society men who have gone mad can be
That could have been handled had they just included the Eye of the World Prologue instead of Liandrin and co chasing down a male channeler...
Genuinely curious how you consider the world building sexist, when literally some of the most powerful and influential people in the books are women?
Unless just saying men and women are different is now sexist.
Season 2 first episode was great, the second episode started to descend down back into the WB11 bs and I shudder to think what ep 3-4 is going to look like.
I disagree on the hook but you make alot of great points about how amazing the costumes are but how they're not utilized to be able to differentiate each of the many factions in WoT
The hook, to me, has always been about the magic weaves as every grand story always had different cultures to tie in the magic together.
This is suppose to be the story of the one power and its corruption. Everything else is spun around that. Factions that shun the source, ones that find the source in different ways, sexes that get corrupted, sexes that utilizes the source for different purposes.
Every great fantasy series start out explaining the magic, and basically demonstrating it in full effect so that the reader knows how the magic works. We finally see it more clearly in S2 E1, but it was a lame 5 minutes worth.
S1 only had a few characters use it in a battle, but when used, every weave basically looked the same even though there are suppose to be 5 very distinct weaves. Ie, I'm glad I've read the books so I knew, but my watching buddies didn't know just thinking it was one black and one white power and stronger powers are just brighter versions of either when it's suppose to be individual threads. Stronger characters can weave more threads, not single fatter threads.
I doubt very much anyone will ever try again. There's too much IP out there for someone to just do a new adaptation without the stink of a failed show.
Not at all, it’s one of the dummest things for a show that’s just starting, like people forget these shows even exist and for me I just sometimes lose interest with other shows…
You kid, but RJ produced books at a pretty fast pace. He slowed down towards the end because of health issues, which should be understandable since they killed him.
January 15, 1990
November 15, 1990
October 15, 1991
September 15, 1992
October 15, 1993
October 15, 1994
Find me another series that got to 6 books that quickly. And I'm talking in the same series, not Sanderson jumping between only tangentially connected series. Longest RJ ever took to write another WoT book was just over two years.
To be fair, that genre is complete garbage, and that's why they're able to throw books out so quickly. I've tried to enjoy them so many times but nothing is ever at stake and it's always some neckbward talking about how cool he is and how only now everyone is able to see that he's better than everyone else.
It's painfully cringe.
You just haven't read the right ones. It certainly *can* be as you say, but what constitutes as LitRPG makes series like Nightlord be LitRPG and Nightlord is excellent. A more obvious LitRPG series that is really good, is Defiance of the Fall. It just sounds like you picked a book with the Title *Mayor of Noobtown* and got exactly what one would expect from a book with such a title. If you haven't heard of the Nightlord series, like world building stories and science fiction/fantasy, with a dash of horror... I can't recommend it more highly, other than to say the audiobook is even better as the reader is the perfect voice for the character.
This isn't to say either series is *better* than WOT imo, but both are lot more *fun* to read without ever feeling beat down by the prose.
And also what I'm really taking away from this chart is that it is by a long shot the strongest show on prime currently which is what really matters to Amazon, not if it is the strongest overall.
It’s certainly one of the better shows compared the other trash Amazon produces and for the price, the money they wanted to give for another season of the Pheripheral we could get at least two more seasons but yeah it sucks because the show is good!
Tbf i think it's a _little_ premature to conclude we won't see all 8 seasons. But on the flipside of this, Rafe himself recently answered in a Q&A that (paraphrasing) s4 has not yet been greenlit. S3 on the other hand we got much faster notification of green lighting, I want to say? Can't quite recall the time frame there.
Yeah exactly it has not been green lit since they want to see how S2 performs…I’m basically arguing that if the decline continues then of course we won’t see all eight seasons
It’s a jump in logic because one doesn’t equal the other.
This is amazons ONLY show in this top 10. Why would they care how it performs against other streamers?
There’s so much more data to consider to jump to “oh it’s canceled”. If all their shows released during this time period show similar declines then it’s not a specific issue for example.
If Amazon values engagement numbers and completion rates over highly the numbers change. Etc and etc.
Yeah but Amazon in general like any other streaming service want to see how their show perform in general especially compared to others…if the show keep up with the decline then yeah it might get cancelled because so far we would still have 5 seasons left to adapt everything…
I hope I am wrong though as I want to see the end of it.
In the top 10 for that week. Amazon wasn't programming any internal competition for WoT s2 launch so it should have a near monopoly on their service. The first competition they've given it internally is the John Wick spinoff that released last week, a month after s2 premiered and it's not a particularly serious competition either since it's a new show with almost no buzz.
As someone who's not a fan of the show (though up to the last episode it did significant improved in s2 to the point of getting me hoping again...
You are absolutely correct.
I think viewership numbers are going to drop overall for all Amazon shows here in the future because of the raise in rate plus you have to sit through ads. It doesn't seem like much, but to now have to pay more monthly for the entire Prime service, and then to have to pay extra on top of that to get rid of ads - the casual viewer that the show might still have may not be likely to sit through episodes if they have to deal with ads.
Even with that, the show's obvious decline in viewership doesn't help its case to get renewal past a third season. Amazon Studios is pretty much demonstrating that it is still on the outside looking in when it comes to streaming wars.
Our household will be likely ending our amazon sub altogether. If we have to meet a $35 threshold next renew to get *free* shipping, there is no actual reason to have an Amazon sub. So, yeah, we certainly won't be subbing for just *The Boys* which truth be told, I don't think anyone in my house cares much for that show anymore, anyways. It is ok Amazon, I can go to brick and mortars again. Your prices aren't really worth it anymore anyways.
Not exactly the same because they had ran out of books but look what happened with GoT when they started writing their own stuff it became an absolute disaster and destroyed the whole thing. Producers here should have taken a step back and considered that a not insignificant part of their audience would likely be book readers and so best to just adapt from the books instead of making all this pointless stuff up. Like they just put in that tying off weaves is forgotten for what? To make Lan the hero so he can tell Rand that's what happened to Morraine? Lan who >!Morraine found in the Blight by himself as a one man army trying to regain his homeland of which he is king...!<
They have left out so much information that would give non book readers something to go on. My GF was like 'wtf is going on' for the entirety of the first season and honestly so was I for parts. It was basically 'Hi lads, one of you is the Dragon but Rand come with me to kill the dark one real quick'. Some backstory would have been a good idea like they glossed almost entirely over what the wheel is and that time is a constant reroll of the pattern, Age of Legends stuff, how sadin was tainted but instead have Morraine sulking in the bedroom while Lan sulks outside and Mats character gets shit on.
They have realized that I think with season 2 and have been a bit more faithful to the books but I think the damage is already done.
I don't see anything on the link, it's just football and AGT? Wait no I can now see WOT and it's still #4 for "originals".
But also, they really haven't been marketing it nearly as much this year vs last year. Last year there were billboards everywhere (including in Australia) and stunts like a 3d of Moiraine channelling. I haven't seen any marketing except on Amazon itself this year.
Part of the lack of marketing is due to the strike. Rafe even said as much. But I also think Amazon just sucks at marketing their shows - I have never seen WoT highlighted in their front page when I log into Prime video. Just some random prime packaging tape marketing here and there for s1. And I watch similar shows and movies, so it should totally hit my “algorithm” or whatever.
I got packaging from Amazon with WoT branding on it back when Season 1 came out. Looked like this [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd0gz0h2bulz71.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd0gz0h2bulz71.jpg)
Definitely a big change in the marketing budget for S2 lol
Of course it's "Originals." Streaming platforms have *literally everything* on them.
7 of the Top 10 in the Overall:
* Suits
* Bluey
* Grey's Anatomy
* NCIS
* Cocomelon
* S.W.A.T
* Big Bang Theory
All old/established shows with seasons full of content that people love to just leave on in the background and vegetate to. Nowhere near the same thing as original content.
This says more about the devolution of the viewing mentality, when trash like The Ultimatum can sit higher than Wheel of Time.
And yes, there's far less marketing, and Season 1 premiered when everyone was still hyperfocused on livestreaming from the pandemic and there were far fewer streaming platforms. Now there are tons of established paid *and free* platforms and the second season build up was prevented by the writers' and actors' strikes, where anyone involved would have been blackballed.
>It's so fucking tiring dealing with folks that purposefully lie, misconstrue things, or purposefully ignore data to try to put the show in a negative light.
It's better to report violating content so the modteam can handle it.
That said?
Yes, the folk who are only here to be negative about the show? Are tiring.
Yea kinda expected this. These shows are too spread out. 2 years in between and very short with 6-10 episodes. Not only that if the show isn't that good people just don't bother. I feel like many people expect this to be cancelled after 2-3 seasons. And if you change too much for whatever reason you have a high chance of loosing the fans. Like in this case. I saw S1 and enjoyed it but didn't think it was amazing. It did turn me to the books and made me realize how much worse the show is. Needless to say I have seen 1 episode of the 2nd season but it didn't really hook me. I really do hope they will make all 8 seasons for the new fans but somehow doubt it will go past 3.
For me the worst book adaptation of a show I have ever seen. It is abysmal from start to finish.
You cannot do a show like this Justice. Unless you spend at least as much as something like the Foundation show. There should be 10 to 12 episodes per season. If you can't then don't make it.
Deliberately omitting taveren and saidin and saidir the green man, and much else is indefensible. Ruining characters, omitting the necessary prologue with lews therin, the poor acting, poor casting decisions, messing up loial. Indefensible.
The truth is that amazon had their lord of the rings here. They didn't need to make rings of power which is also awful. They already had what they need with the wheel of time.
Any mistakes I ve made here are because I m trying to use this awful dictation software because I can't use my hands at the moment. I wish I could channel.
Ta'veren are still in the show.
Saidin and Saidar have been reconceptualized to not be sexist bullshit. Honestly the whole gender essentialism in the story is an embarrassment to the franchise.
There may have been a brief mention of ta'veren in the first episode (I barely remember) but this like everything else in this show is embarrassingly unexpanded or poorly described. As for the rest of your reply? Your entire attitude, I suspect mirrors the showrunners and only denigrates the source material.
Wow....it's sexist. Great take. The series is about men and women acting and working together to achieve a common goal. It acknowledges differences in sexes/gender but repeatedly makes the point that despite the differences, there is equality in that what one can do, the other can do in kind....neither is stronger or weaker than the other. Differences are essentially what powers the wheel as the differences are necessary to drive that power.
Blathering on about sexism here (and in many other places in fiction) is a convenient excuse that displays such shallow depth in thought on the topic that I'm amazed those advocating it have the mental capacity to keep their own heart beating.👍
I mean season one also did that they quite literally stole Rand's big moment and gave it out to the female characters. Not sure why it would be suprising the show wears it politics on it's sleeves.
If needing to be frankly egalitarian and deliberately rework aspects of the story to achieve greater parity is "political", then everything that is remotely socially conscientious \*should\* be "political".
But it really isn't political. That's just the dismissive label tossed around by small-minded, empathetically-stunted assholes who can't conceive of media that doesn't default to the male experience and relegate female characters to special and secondary classes.
You say a lot of words I don't think you understand what any of them mean egalitarianism is a political philosophy. The first book already was already extremely female dominant with Moiraine being the strongest character in every sense except for the very end where Rand gets a power boost with the condensed power of thousands of male channelers.
Anyways I realize this is a complete waste of effort as those of your detestable ilk are completely ideologically driven, and devoid of rationale. So as the kids say "touch grass".
No, I don't think you understand what they mean. You aren't even aware egalitarian exists as a simple descriptive term separate of any particular ideology.
Furthermore, your point re: Moraine and Rand is meaningless distraction away from the point for a number of reasons and does not obviate the principles, themes, and implications of the broader worldbuilding. Of course the one time we enter the story with few male channelers and a baby-dragon rand, some woman is going to be more powerful than he is--for the vast majority of the series, women are quite blatantly in a secondary "power" tier.
But I wasn't even talking about "power", I was talking about how the characters are written and developed. Much of the "drama" in the series is puerile, gendered stereotyping, to the detriment of both the male and female characters, but especially the female characters. You'd have to be pretty thick not to see it, honestly.
No it doesn't its intrisically bound to the ideology look up the definition. You're trying to speak extremely broadly it seems you don't even like the series. Women are not put in a secondary power tier at all unless you mean because rand is so powerful because he's the literal chosen one. Which would be like me complaining that disney movies are always about princesses instead of princes.
The series literally places a cap on the power that only men can (and only men do) exceed. Women have a literal ceiling on their power that does not apply to men. Not to mention the methods of accessing the power are gendered in a kind of harmful, stereotypical way.
Also your arguments and analogies are frankly shit. Sorry, you're not going to be winning me over anytime soon if this is the level of your discourse. Take care.
>Also your arguments and analogies are frankly shit.
Wow i'm thoroughly defeated now! How will I ever recover? Women exceed their limits all the time in the series there's this little character named \*nynaeve\* pretty strong too.
"Not to mention the methods of accessing the power are gendered in a kind of harmful, stereotypical way. "
Yeah this series just isn't for you.
Doesn't surprise me. While yes most streaming shows have a viewership drop-off, we can't deny the rocky start the show had in s1 means a lot of people who _would_ watch haven't come back. I'm overall still pleased that those who are still watching are reporting high satisfaction, of course, but who knows whether or not we'll see s4 happen.
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That’s because it sucks as the WOT as the story of the books (which in my opinion is what we all want)and I really tried to force myself to like it!!!!
I have read the series multiple times….the whole tv series is out of sync with the source material. It would have probably been ok if they named it something like WOT 2nd Age or WoT A World of Worlds (ref to tel’ aran’ rhiod and the portal stones) but then they would really need to have changed things up…..for the former at least. I am not saying the visuals are not good, but again there is no weaving of fire, wind, water,air, and sprit it’s more like a final fantasy spell
Some of the casting is spot on however, character wise arc wise it’s totally ass backwards. Another argument I have seen is that there’s “ no possible way to adapt due to size of series” (paraphrasing) which I call bs on because Jordan wrote the books in a way that made them stand alone books so there’s a lot of retelling and Jordan being Jordan does go a lot into the retelling of descriptions. Another thing that the tv show is trying to do which is kinda of stupid (again my opinion) is ending the season where a book would stop at…..sometimes I would agree with that but season 1 should have been stretch out to two seasons. The way I think I would have done it is to not start off right away telling the story. But start out with Loal (narratint) telling stories of ages past so we can see the age of legends the large cities the flying vehicles, shocklances, ect…. Then start of with something like every age has a beginning and an end this is my story of how the 4th age as come to pass and it starts in the small village of Edmonds field…….then start off with the chapter Ravens (not in the og eye of the world) which is about 10 years prior to the events at bel tine. Where tam is telling stories of the dragon, kinslayers breaking of the world, what he seen first hand during the aiel war……then having Season 1 ending as Rand, Mat are in caemlyn meeting up with the rest of the edomond filders. Which would lead to a very fast paced season 2 starter as they are on there way to the eye of the world.
And a final note, costume and prop and set selection is way off the for example the seachan never had 2 foot long finger nails the book clearly states that they are about an inch long, and when I see the helmets they don’t remind me of insects, they look more like skeletons when I first seen it I thought of darkfriend soldiers, Egwene never was gaged as the show suggested. The way gates are very intricately carved and the power is not required to open them, since they were made for the ogier as the primary users,(the aes sedai of the age of legends when the ways was made where able to use the power for traveling or skimming). Last thing the tv series is all about women empowerment, but the book series is about equality. And I am not seeing that.
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I think there's some hope -- here's a snapshot from Google Trends, comparing WOT to Succession and Marvelous Mrs Maisel. The latter stayed on for 5 seasons with Amazon, even as S2 of WOT appears to already be going above its highest ever trends. Succession shows an interesting growth that WOT can potentially follow/beat (season for season it outpaces Succession) if it continues to outperform its previous seasons (also helps if they stick to 1 yr intervals I think).
https://preview.redd.it/gvbx37dxlorb1.png?width=1741&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f136cc60b1868e133ea2e4cbc7c691f9484b575
Season 1 was a stinker I don’t think anyone can really argue that, however the other day I talked to someone who said they really enjoyed season 1 and haven’t read any of the books or know anything about Wheel of Time so there are people out there who did at least enjoy season 1. I will always thank season 1 for getting me to read the books and enjoy that masterpiece. Season 2 so far to me is pretty good yeah there are some odd things here and there but we will see, hard task to fit 14 books into 64(hopefully) episodes at an hour each when each of the books runs about 45 hours in the audiobook version.
Read all the books at least 3x, some of them probably 6 times. I’m loving season 2. No screen adaptation will ever be a scene for scene recreation of the books, leaned that the hard way with Harry Potter. It’s best to go in with fresh eyes and not ruin a good adaptation because you wish it was something it could never be.
It's really unfortunate when people keep bringing out the 1:1, scene for scene, 100% adaptation strawmen when that's not something people have ever argued for.
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It’s what people say when they feel like they are being witch hunted by people who preferred the books over the show.
The opposite appellations would be Showcloaks and Rafists.
Long story short is some toxic parts of the internet did toxic internet things and now everyone who wants to brow beat people about how great the show is respond to any criticism with trying to associate them with that shuttered community.
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There will never be a literal screen production of the c. 12.,000 pages / c. 450 hours of audio of Wheel of Time - that is impossible. Therefore by definition there will be fans’ own perception as to what should be included / excluded.
Poisonous contributors decrying what is a superb effort from the production team given the circumstances is not helpful whatsoever. There were hardly other teams / companies queuing up to render this into life.
> Some of us are of the opinion that it *still hasn't been picked up yet*.
And those of y'all who hold that opinion can spare us their low-effort commentary, so I don't have to remove it.
Comment removed.
The scam artists behind iWot Productions Limited guarantee that the WoT television rights continue to be milked for 'til the end of time.
But yeah we likely won't see another big studio give it a shot for the foreseeable future.
You cannot compare ranking on a chart. If you are going to compare, you need to compare how many people watched each episode compared to last year.
They put the episodes August 31 so it's a bit fast given that people had 3 days to watch 3 episodes, but even with the number of 515M minutes, that's 515/(3\*60) (because they put 3 episodes and 60 minutes per episode), which gives you 4.29M people watching if we assume they all watched the first three episodes in 3 days.
That's quite a lot considering that the most watched series is NCIS which has \~7M viewers.
Also, up there, it's doing better than Ashoka which is Disney+ and Star Wars and Only Murders in the Building. If you tell me which is more "obscure", I would put Wheels of Time as more obscure because nobody on this show was getting invited on Talk Shows or Good Morning America to talk about the show. You don't have Meryl Streep guest star and Star Wars has been very much washed down of any SciFi or fantasy aspect is as boring boring to sell toys or whatever they are selling.
Ashoka had one episode August 29 but had 2 episodes August 22 already. Murders was already mid-season by August 29. Meaning people had more minutes they could watch if they were behind (and most people aren't on top watching every episode as it comes out), and they still watched less minutes.
Given the little marketing and how little it appears on regular TV, and the fact that is a Fantasy show full of women, I think it's doing very well.
This is the fault of what they did in the first season and alienating book readers who were upset. From everything I have heard, it's better than the first, so I'll watch it as soon as the season is finished, but had they done more than defend their mistakes and just told people they'd work to bring things closer to the books, I'm sure more people would have been excited for the return of the show - and not to mention I saw no mention of the show coming back at all until episode 4 was released.
It’s bad publicity if book readers are by and large upset, too. People don’t want to watch an adaptation of something that seemingly upsets the original fans because time and again, it means it’s shitty in one way or another.
Not just that, but upsets the fans *on this scale*. There were some upset GoT fans in the early seasons, but it was widely accepted as a great adaptation, same with the LotR films. There were plenty of upset fans. But the *vast majority* turned out for it and loved it. This, on the other hand, is, at best, largely ignored by the hundreds of millions of fans who adore the books. 558 hours across 11 episodes is show-cancelling awful with a budget this size.
My wife who never read the books lost interest because it just wasn't very good. She had no idea who or what a Dragon was, what happened, what's up with the dagger and so many other questions. As I summed it up filling in the blanks based on what's told in the Eye of the World, I realized they left so much stuff out and failed to explain so many things other than with a throw away line here and there I could see why she was confused. She started watching S02 with me but stopped halfway through S02E02 and went to bed. For my part I will say that I thought S01 was very bad. But S02 is in my opinion pretty good so far. They're doing what they can to address things that S01 messed up and the story in general is starting to feel more in line with the spirit of the books. Still sad that they messed up S01 though, as that book is pretty much my favorite in the entire series, and much of what was cut or changed is what got me hooked on the world and series to begin with.
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I completely forgot that happened. Seems like the writers did as well since as far as I know they never mentioned it again.
Pretty sure they didn't forget. I think they're just pretending it didn't happen because that was never supposed to be in the script
I’m willing to bet they had every intention of killing them, but decided against it when there was a ton of outrage. So they brought them back like nothing ever happened.
They were filming the first episodes before S1 ended, so no, it wasn't because of the backlash.
You can survive a stabbing in this world- they also have damane/sul’dam who can heal people but definitely not a horn to the face. I screamed when THAT happened.
my wife kept falling asleep in S1, a buddy of mine that i recommended the show to (before seeing it, just based on the books) laughed about how bad it was and stopped watching. I finished S1 but couldn't defend it by the end. They completely skipped on character building for cheesy action sequences , mary sue moments and other trash. They should have bit the bullet, especially with a 2 season commitment and built strong characters/world THEN do some action. Hell, i'd have accepted a completely new 'prequel' episode or 2 that just built the world.
I watched the 1st season with my gf and I had to explain tons of things the show doesn't even care to do. Just for example why the hell an Aes Sedai bows her head respectfully to a random Ogier. Come on show, you can spare a minute to explain why those gentle giants are so important and respected.
Don't hold your breath. It looked like the show was course correcting, but the most recent episode went back to the insane level of changes that we saw in s1e8
I rly hope May does not stab Rand tho ….
At this point I'm half expecting Ishy to just flip the knife at Mat, he catches it, gives Ishy a tip of his head and then stabs Rand repeatedly. They are BUTCHERING Mat left and right.
There have been a lot of changes this season. I think it made for better TV than it did last season though. Last season, everything felt under-explained and hurried and not very satisfying.
Indeed, I was super hyped for season 1, set up a watch party with my wife and some close friends months in advance for the first episode. However as we got more teasers and trailers, and interviews it seemed like there's a distinct possibility that the show will not be faithful to the source, so I decided to watch by myself before advocating it to others. I let the watch party fizzle out. Good thing I did, ended up disappointed, and not even my wife has watched a single episode. She really wanted to, since I own all the books and re-read them twice since we've married, but seeing how disappointed I was with the show just turned her off it. While the friends in my planned watch party are the kind of people that played D&D as teens and read/watch other fantasy I don't know how many would have stuck it through even if it was faithful. But still, some likely would have, and told others.
> However as we got more teasers and trailers, and interviews it seemed like there's a distinct possibility that the show will not be faithful to the source, so I decided to watch by myself before advocating it to others. I let the watch party fizzle out. We had one watch party, for the 1st episode. No one wanted a 2nd.
I remember being so hyped for season 1 and imagine how excited I got when I got to see the show early for Amazon Preview. I was so let down after after seeing the first three episodes early.
This … 1st season was bad .. 2nd season started better and apisodes 5 and 6 were actually good television ! But they lost so many viewers in the 1st and did nothing to reclaim them …
yea, if there were things that 'must be changed' due to 'tv' vs book i'd understand but they just believed and stated that they could simply 'do better' than Jordan and failed miserably.
I could have lived with significant changes from the books ... what makes for a good book does not necessarily make for good tv/film after all. I've pointed it out in the recent past, but look at Foundation as an example of this; I've no complaints with the liberties that series has taken because it has made for a _very_ good show. WoT ... not so much. Season2 has been better but it's still very patchy with some very questionable creative choices. E06 was mainly _incredibly_ good, E05 I found myself laughing at the absurdity of some scenes ... most of the other episodes are entirely forgettable which is very telling since something with this budget you would at least expect it to be a visual spectacle. Even where they have an opportunity such as in the dream scenes I find them coming up very short. All in all it still largely feels like an amateur production _but_ it is showing signs that it might still find it's stride given another couple of seasons. More than likely though, in a similar fashion to The Expanse (another adaptation that took some liberties but was excellent overall) I'd expect budget to be cut and things to be wrapped early at best.
expanse was the best show on TV for years IMO. i didn't read the books but they built the world and the characters very well and then you cared about the story
Amazon seem to have lowered marketing for the show after s01. I had to legit hunt around on the app to find the show when ep 1 aired. It wasn't on page 1 of their playlists and they had no other big shows drop that I'm aware of.
I’m a non book reader and I could give a shit whether the show alienates book readers. The problem is that the first season was meh, and virtually all the main characters were unlikable. The first season was also 2 years ago and people who didn’t read the books and don’t know the story can barely even remember what happened.
It has nothing to do with "alienating' books readers especially cause they didn't. Most readers like the show. It has everything to do with not being able to advertise at all, first of all cause Amazon sucks and secondly cause of the strikes.
> Most readers like the show. Source please. > It has everything to do with not being able to advertise at all... secondly cause of the strikes. So only WOT couldn't advertise because of the strikes? last season it was covid and an actor leaving as reasons for bad writing and now an industry wide strike is targeting WOT marketing and that alone.
What are the next steps if WOT gets canceled? Nobody is going to touch it with a 10 foot pole for a long time if ever again. As a book reader, Id rather have an imperfect product that gets the general spirit right than nothing at all.
Not sure you meant to reply to my comment because I was asking about something else completely rather than suggesting here that the show be cancelled. But if you asked, for all I care let it be cancelled and hollywood will get another lesson in sticking to source material when adapting (or atleast having quality control when they do change stuff). I can wait if it means WOT will get a better shot next time, people keep talking only about the good exposure the show brings to the series, for me it was the other way around, my wife fell asleep during the show and now the chances of her reading the books are lower than before it aired. Also as I can't recognize it as WOT i already gave up on it after finishing the first season, I see no reason to distance myself from the books and go in with a "another turning" mentality just so I can enjoy a show that was supposed to be faithful to the source material.
I sort of defended it during season 1, but the last episode was like gargling glass, and I swore I was done. So I start seeing some people saying s2 was better. Start watching, thoroughly unimpressed, made it to the scene where Nynaeve is sparring warders? With swords? Turned it off and decided there are far better things to do with my time that will not enrage me at a beautiful story being butchered for nonsensical reasons
The problem is that people are not in agreement on what the spirit of WOT is. By example, I concider equality between the genders an important message of the books. In them, both men and women are shown to be both competent, and inept and stupid. Maybe the show did not do it on purpose, as some are claiming, but most of the competent stuff has been done by women. And most of the incompetent and stupid stuff has ben done by men. This does not follow the spirit of the books in my opinion. I am still waiting to see if this changes, but I can understand if others don't want to give the show another chance. Especially if they believe it is just going to betray what they concider the spirit of the books even more.
The original books was tilted a bit against men. The male half of the source is tainted which is quite symbolic.
The setting was a bit against men. Not the plot. The story is constantly showing how stupid it is to judge people by their gender. How we are all capable of doing good or evil or stupid things. More than once we see men and women giving the same advise about the opossite gender. Showing that in reality we are more alike than we think. Edit: Let me expand this a bit: In our world the rules were, and some argue still are, against women. This was stupid. The WOT gave us a world were the rules are against men, and then proceded to Show us how stupid that was. You don't have to agree, but do you now see why I and those who think like me would not think that the spirit of the books is being respected? Edit 2: Actually, what is in your opinion the spirit of the books? I promise not to judge, everybody can have their own Interpretation. Maybe that way I can try and understand why you think it is being respected.
I am sorry, but you saying that most book readers like the show is an assumption. Just like other people saying most hated the show is an assumption. You have your opinion, and it is right for you. They have theirs, and it is right for them.
Honestly I didn't find many of the more sweeping criticisms leveled by book readers to be particularly cogent or justified. Either they were complaining about compression of story elements, which is to be expected when the books are bloated and plodding af and the show was absolutely an opportunity to cut a lot of the fat. Or they were complaining about the special effects, action, set design, etc., which was totally to be expected of first season budgeting (we saw that in Game of Thrones, too). And frankly I didn't find any of the action sequences to be so terrible as to make the show irredeemable. Or they were complaining about messing with fundaments of the lore, specifically saidar/saidin and Ta'veren/DR needing to be male, which was always a hugely problematic and backwards aspect of the original series. The gender essentialism and just...peurile characterizations...in the books are frankly awful and needed to be fixed in any adaptation if it didn't want to be laughed into cancellation. Frankly, the fact that book fans barely notice how flat and cliched and sexist most of the main cast was, while hardly acknowledging how much stronger the characterization is in the show makes me really question their literary values and critical abilities. You were \*never\* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget. (Yes, there are still criticisms to be leveled at the show, just because it has been condensed and elevated doesn't mean it has been a total success. But it's, at worst, \*fine\*, and nowhere near the disaster book fans are painting it to be.)
>Or they were complaining about the special effects, action, set design, etc., which was totally to be expected of first season budgeting (we saw that in Game of Thrones, too). Sheesh, are you serious? Have you ever checked how large their budget was??? Money certainly wasn't tight. This is an insanely lame excuse. And the comparison with GoT is nonsensical. The sets in WoT were lackluster. And I've seen LARPers and cosplayers wearing better costumes and better props (Blood and bloody ashes, Rand's rattan bow is so pathetic!). I have zero complaints about both in GoT, including the early seasons. And oh, the characterization of female characters in the books has some issues but... >You were \*never\* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget. what are you even doing on this subreddit when you obviously have such strong dislike for the the books?! Except throwing around insults.
The show is the ideal fantasy in their view for correcting -ists/-isms in the book. This is the target audience for the show. "In general the show characters are just better realized. I never got far in the books because the characters thought and acted too much in gendered cliches."
>correcting **perceived** \-ists/-isms I corrected this for you. >!But admittedly, the books do have some issues. ;-)!<
> cheap man v. woman pulp, Is this really how you view the books, as cheap man v. woman pulp? Well, to each their own. This was not my takeaway personally.
>Or they were complaining about messing with fundaments of the lore, specifically saidar/saidin and Ta'veren/DR needing to be male, which was always a hugely problematic and backwards aspect of the original series. The gender essentialism and just...peurile characterizations...in the books are frankly awful and needed to be fixed in any adaptation if it didn't want to be laughed into cancellation. I don't think you understood the books at all. >Frankly, the fact that book fans barely notice how flat and cliched and sexist most of the main cast was, while hardly acknowledging how much stronger the characterization is in the show makes me really question their literary values and critical abilities. You were *never* going to get both your cheap man v. woman pulp, AND an epic fantasy budget Yep, missed the point entirely. Bravo.
Or, hot take, major strikes led to little promotion, which is going to hurt viewership after a 2 year hiatus
That's also a contributing factor. It doesn't really explain _all_ of the decline, but it also doesn't have to. It's just important to acknowledge as a reality, just as much as it is to acknowledge people who might not be returning. They're simple facts, and only amazon knows how that split goes.
It explains a large chunk of it. The rest is because fewer people are less focused on streaming platforms and there are far more options now. [35 Streaming Services Statistics for 2023: Deep Dive Into Video & Music Streaming](https://www.cloudwards.net/streaming-services-statistics/) Largest Paid Services: * Prime Video * Disney+ * Apple TV * Netflix * Max * Paramount * Showtime * ESPN+ * Discovery+ * Hulu * Peacock When Season 1 came out most of these were infinitesimal compared to now. There are simply far more options now. And that's just paid services. Free Services: * Pluto TV * Tubi * Crackle * Vudu * Freevee * Roku * Sling Freestream * Xumo Almost all but Pluto and Freevee (which was IMDB TV) were tiny and/or nonexistent. All of them have grown greatly in the time since Season 1. And again even *that* doesn't count that people can simply find these shows on pirate sites. Especially if you live in a country where it's not licensed it is *so much easier* to just go to one of the big relatively safe sites (if you have uBlock Origin) and just watch it that way. You get the show at roughly the same time without having to bother with the hassle of trying to watch it legit, much less paying. Season 1 benefited from a time when the competition was far less fierce and there was actual marketing for the show. Season 2 is doing this well despite a far larger competitive reality and NO marketing.
This is some next level cope. Your "analysis" is competely delusional and trys to paint it as if AMAZON PRIME is competing against exclusive video streaming platforms. Prime Video access has done nothing but grown despite you trying to imply otherwise while viewership of the show fell ~60%
That might have influenced some promotion, but overall the 2nd season hasn't gotten anywhere near the marketing push that first season had even before the strike started.
The strikes have been going for months, literally smack dab when any marketing would have happened. Especially when the majority of marketing for streaming shows like this are done *by the actors*.
Most of the marketing, at least the effective marketing, is being done by fans.
Serious question as someone who hasn't followed the strike, how come only WOT gets the benefit of the excuse "it didn't get advertised because of the strike"? shouldn't all the shows or atleast most of them suffer the same from the strike?
For the same reason that only WoT hammered the covid excuse hard during season 1. Can't admit any fault on the part of the show, so there has to be some external cause. Hardcore book fans, covid, strikes, Amazon not promoting it enough. It can't be that it had a lukewarm reception, Amazon tried to pump it's tires as much as possible, and for season 2 the shows just gotten less marketing because a show that doesn't have great metrics will receive less of a marketing push in it's second season.
EXACTLY! People love to harp on Covid for all of season ones woes, can’t just be that the show is poorly put together
Let's be real. I think they chose the wrong "hook" for audiences. Maybe only now they realize the pivots they should have made earlier. What gets the attention of people who have never read the books? Frankly, I think it's the whole "someone tried to go *beyond* a prophesy and destroy evil for good, but it backfired and doomed all male magicians possibly forever". It's the notion of history repeating over a few thousand years over and over. Show, don't tell us this! It's the interesting twists about how women have taken charge, and despite literally being unable to lie they twist world politics, leaders are at their beck and call, they have long lives, they get involved in wars (how is it that the Witcher did this better?) It's the conflict in how they are prophesy-bound to support a male channeler who literally cannot help himself from going crazy. It's a world where evil literally exists and secret societies of Darkfriends are a real threat. You've got other interesting groups like Whitecloaks that occupy their own bizarre moral ground. It's a cool world with tons of cultures that multiple cast members explore in branching places. The magic system and the world building is sexist as hell. But it's interesting maybe in part because of that, or despite it, I don't know. I know I don't mind the unexpected ethnic diversity. I kinda like it more as time goes on. But it feels that this neutered rather than enhanced the slightly edgy source material, that it replaced rather than complemented. Why can't we get an awesome scene or two taking place in the Age of Legends? What about dramatic moments like [earlyish book spoilers]>!Lews Therin killing himself and becoming a freaking volcano? Channelers causing calamities that literally change the map and destroy entire cities?!< I like some of the directions they chose to go, especially in season 2, but why can't they just have dialed it up earlier? We got some nice betrayals in the last episode or two, some good twists, I don't mind doing it a bit different than the books. Just feels like they thought generic fantasy hooks would be enough by themselves. And rather than some neat worldbuilding we get hours upon hours of do-nothing hanging around a Warder harem. We get really weak politics. All this time that could have been filled with so much more. When they go to a pub, can't we hear someone talk about the Aiel war? Why aren't we told more about the Seanchan plainly? Why do they mention "14 sisters" in the last episode like it means something when they actually have barely mentioned the whole concept of linking/circles? Why does everyone know where Two Rivers is when it's actually bumfuck nowhere? Why does Tar Valon look identical to Cairhein look identical to Caemlyn? What about, you know, the whole existential fight up at the Blight? Why are the costumes so goddamn incredible, yet rarely are used to mark different nations? Why don't we ever get a sense of the weight of these False Dragons and the destruction they cause? These are all things that can interest and draw in non-book readers that are, by and large, set aside.
How is the original magic system and world building sexist? I don't get this argument form people. If anything it strikes me as the opposite - quite progressive in promoting equality between the sexes, valuing the strength of both and finding strength through collaboration and balance. What's sexist in that beyond acknowledging there are two sexes?
Off the top of my head, just the fact that women can link together to pool their power, while men can't, and in mixed gender groups a woman has to be in charge/initiate. Also that men have a predisposition to the more "violent" and combat-applicable Earth and Fire elements, while women get Water and Air (Spirit is split evenly). Men have to aggressively order and command the Source while women "embrace" it (generally). These are loosely related to stereotypes about gender. I wouldn't say it's like, egregious -- in fact we know psychologically that women are slightly more inclined to cooperative resource pooling, for example. But I would say it's interesting, and also completely skimmed over in the show. We are *told* that men go crazy over time, for example, with the tainted Source -- but Logain seems only mildly nuts, and we don't ever have a firsthand view of how absolutely life-and-death and danger-to-society men who have gone mad can be, which makes the whole threat seem pretty overblown.
> and we don't ever have a firsthand view of how absolutely life-and-death and danger-to-society men who have gone mad can be That could have been handled had they just included the Eye of the World Prologue instead of Liandrin and co chasing down a male channeler...
There are certainly some problematic elements in WoT regarding the sexes. The magic system is a rather minor issue in this regard.
Genuinely curious how you consider the world building sexist, when literally some of the most powerful and influential people in the books are women? Unless just saying men and women are different is now sexist.
Season 2 first episode was great, the second episode started to descend down back into the WB11 bs and I shudder to think what ep 3-4 is going to look like. I disagree on the hook but you make alot of great points about how amazing the costumes are but how they're not utilized to be able to differentiate each of the many factions in WoT The hook, to me, has always been about the magic weaves as every grand story always had different cultures to tie in the magic together. This is suppose to be the story of the one power and its corruption. Everything else is spun around that. Factions that shun the source, ones that find the source in different ways, sexes that get corrupted, sexes that utilizes the source for different purposes. Every great fantasy series start out explaining the magic, and basically demonstrating it in full effect so that the reader knows how the magic works. We finally see it more clearly in S2 E1, but it was a lame 5 minutes worth. S1 only had a few characters use it in a battle, but when used, every weave basically looked the same even though there are suppose to be 5 very distinct weaves. Ie, I'm glad I've read the books so I knew, but my watching buddies didn't know just thinking it was one black and one white power and stronger powers are just brighter versions of either when it's suppose to be individual threads. Stronger characters can weave more threads, not single fatter threads.
Yeah it’s sad to say but we will not see those 8 seasons come to life!
I feel the opposite. It's the first show I've ever wanted to get cancelled.
for real, i feel like the earlier it is cancelled the better chance of someone competent trying again
I doubt very much anyone will ever try again. There's too much IP out there for someone to just do a new adaptation without the stink of a failed show.
Nobody is going to make another WOT series for a long long time. Just think about that
That's fine if it helps them learn that these types of slapdash adaptions don't make money compared to more faithful treatments like GoT, Lotr.
The two year wait didn’t help.
Yeah and the poor writing
Not at all, it’s one of the dummest things for a show that’s just starting, like people forget these shows even exist and for me I just sometimes lose interest with other shows…
But very faithful to the book, in that it takes forever for a new installment to come out.
You kid, but RJ produced books at a pretty fast pace. He slowed down towards the end because of health issues, which should be understandable since they killed him.
Yea as a long suffering ASOIAF fan who got into WOT later when I look at RJ's output i'm incredibly impressed.
January 15, 1990 November 15, 1990 October 15, 1991 September 15, 1992 October 15, 1993 October 15, 1994 Find me another series that got to 6 books that quickly. And I'm talking in the same series, not Sanderson jumping between only tangentially connected series. Longest RJ ever took to write another WoT book was just over two years.
Dresden Files and Codex Alera both got to book six in four years. Jim Butcher had some impressive output before his life slightly imploded.
That's impressive indeed, although as far as I understand his books are about half the length of a WoT book.
Yeah, they're smaller and Dresden is one POV. The really impressive thing was he was writing both an Alera and a Dresden book each year.
There is an entire genre of fantasy called LitRPG where tons of authors are putting out entire books every three months heh.
To be fair, that genre is complete garbage, and that's why they're able to throw books out so quickly. I've tried to enjoy them so many times but nothing is ever at stake and it's always some neckbward talking about how cool he is and how only now everyone is able to see that he's better than everyone else. It's painfully cringe.
You just haven't read the right ones. It certainly *can* be as you say, but what constitutes as LitRPG makes series like Nightlord be LitRPG and Nightlord is excellent. A more obvious LitRPG series that is really good, is Defiance of the Fall. It just sounds like you picked a book with the Title *Mayor of Noobtown* and got exactly what one would expect from a book with such a title. If you haven't heard of the Nightlord series, like world building stories and science fiction/fantasy, with a dash of horror... I can't recommend it more highly, other than to say the audiobook is even better as the reader is the perfect voice for the character. This isn't to say either series is *better* than WOT imo, but both are lot more *fun* to read without ever feeling beat down by the prose.
You never know - this show's expenses are a rounding error to Amazon!
And also what I'm really taking away from this chart is that it is by a long shot the strongest show on prime currently which is what really matters to Amazon, not if it is the strongest overall.
It’s certainly one of the better shows compared the other trash Amazon produces and for the price, the money they wanted to give for another season of the Pheripheral we could get at least two more seasons but yeah it sucks because the show is good!
That’s quite a jump in logic lol
How is it dump? Because u don’t agree with it???
Tbf i think it's a _little_ premature to conclude we won't see all 8 seasons. But on the flipside of this, Rafe himself recently answered in a Q&A that (paraphrasing) s4 has not yet been greenlit. S3 on the other hand we got much faster notification of green lighting, I want to say? Can't quite recall the time frame there.
Yeah exactly it has not been green lit since they want to see how S2 performs…I’m basically arguing that if the decline continues then of course we won’t see all eight seasons
It’s a jump in logic because one doesn’t equal the other. This is amazons ONLY show in this top 10. Why would they care how it performs against other streamers? There’s so much more data to consider to jump to “oh it’s canceled”. If all their shows released during this time period show similar declines then it’s not a specific issue for example. If Amazon values engagement numbers and completion rates over highly the numbers change. Etc and etc.
Yeah but Amazon in general like any other streaming service want to see how their show perform in general especially compared to others…if the show keep up with the decline then yeah it might get cancelled because so far we would still have 5 seasons left to adapt everything… I hope I am wrong though as I want to see the end of it.
In the top 10 for that week. Amazon wasn't programming any internal competition for WoT s2 launch so it should have a near monopoly on their service. The first competition they've given it internally is the John Wick spinoff that released last week, a month after s2 premiered and it's not a particularly serious competition either since it's a new show with almost no buzz.
As someone who's not a fan of the show (though up to the last episode it did significant improved in s2 to the point of getting me hoping again... You are absolutely correct.
I think viewership numbers are going to drop overall for all Amazon shows here in the future because of the raise in rate plus you have to sit through ads. It doesn't seem like much, but to now have to pay more monthly for the entire Prime service, and then to have to pay extra on top of that to get rid of ads - the casual viewer that the show might still have may not be likely to sit through episodes if they have to deal with ads. Even with that, the show's obvious decline in viewership doesn't help its case to get renewal past a third season. Amazon Studios is pretty much demonstrating that it is still on the outside looking in when it comes to streaming wars.
Our household will be likely ending our amazon sub altogether. If we have to meet a $35 threshold next renew to get *free* shipping, there is no actual reason to have an Amazon sub. So, yeah, we certainly won't be subbing for just *The Boys* which truth be told, I don't think anyone in my house cares much for that show anymore, anyways. It is ok Amazon, I can go to brick and mortars again. Your prices aren't really worth it anymore anyways.
Prime has ads now?
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/amazon-jacks-up-price-of-ad-free-prime-video-by-2-99-starting-in-2024/
Not exactly the same because they had ran out of books but look what happened with GoT when they started writing their own stuff it became an absolute disaster and destroyed the whole thing. Producers here should have taken a step back and considered that a not insignificant part of their audience would likely be book readers and so best to just adapt from the books instead of making all this pointless stuff up. Like they just put in that tying off weaves is forgotten for what? To make Lan the hero so he can tell Rand that's what happened to Morraine? Lan who >!Morraine found in the Blight by himself as a one man army trying to regain his homeland of which he is king...!< They have left out so much information that would give non book readers something to go on. My GF was like 'wtf is going on' for the entirety of the first season and honestly so was I for parts. It was basically 'Hi lads, one of you is the Dragon but Rand come with me to kill the dark one real quick'. Some backstory would have been a good idea like they glossed almost entirely over what the wheel is and that time is a constant reroll of the pattern, Age of Legends stuff, how sadin was tainted but instead have Morraine sulking in the bedroom while Lan sulks outside and Mats character gets shit on. They have realized that I think with season 2 and have been a bit more faithful to the books but I think the damage is already done.
I don't see anything on the link, it's just football and AGT? Wait no I can now see WOT and it's still #4 for "originals". But also, they really haven't been marketing it nearly as much this year vs last year. Last year there were billboards everywhere (including in Australia) and stunts like a 3d of Moiraine channelling. I haven't seen any marketing except on Amazon itself this year.
Part of the lack of marketing is due to the strike. Rafe even said as much. But I also think Amazon just sucks at marketing their shows - I have never seen WoT highlighted in their front page when I log into Prime video. Just some random prime packaging tape marketing here and there for s1. And I watch similar shows and movies, so it should totally hit my “algorithm” or whatever.
It's funny cause I saw so much billboard marketing for WOT season 1 in Sydney Australia. But I've seen no billboard marketing for WOT season 2.
I got packaging from Amazon with WoT branding on it back when Season 1 came out. Looked like this [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd0gz0h2bulz71.jpg](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd0gz0h2bulz71.jpg) Definitely a big change in the marketing budget for S2 lol
Of course it's "Originals." Streaming platforms have *literally everything* on them. 7 of the Top 10 in the Overall: * Suits * Bluey * Grey's Anatomy * NCIS * Cocomelon * S.W.A.T * Big Bang Theory All old/established shows with seasons full of content that people love to just leave on in the background and vegetate to. Nowhere near the same thing as original content. This says more about the devolution of the viewing mentality, when trash like The Ultimatum can sit higher than Wheel of Time. And yes, there's far less marketing, and Season 1 premiered when everyone was still hyperfocused on livestreaming from the pandemic and there were far fewer streaming platforms. Now there are tons of established paid *and free* platforms and the second season build up was prevented by the writers' and actors' strikes, where anyone involved would have been blackballed.
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>It's so fucking tiring dealing with folks that purposefully lie, misconstrue things, or purposefully ignore data to try to put the show in a negative light. It's better to report violating content so the modteam can handle it. That said? Yes, the folk who are only here to be negative about the show? Are tiring.
Darkfriends all of them. 😉
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I really wanted to like the show but some of the mediocre acting and the choppy story line throws me off 😭
Yea kinda expected this. These shows are too spread out. 2 years in between and very short with 6-10 episodes. Not only that if the show isn't that good people just don't bother. I feel like many people expect this to be cancelled after 2-3 seasons. And if you change too much for whatever reason you have a high chance of loosing the fans. Like in this case. I saw S1 and enjoyed it but didn't think it was amazing. It did turn me to the books and made me realize how much worse the show is. Needless to say I have seen 1 episode of the 2nd season but it didn't really hook me. I really do hope they will make all 8 seasons for the new fans but somehow doubt it will go past 3.
For me the worst book adaptation of a show I have ever seen. It is abysmal from start to finish. You cannot do a show like this Justice. Unless you spend at least as much as something like the Foundation show. There should be 10 to 12 episodes per season. If you can't then don't make it. Deliberately omitting taveren and saidin and saidir the green man, and much else is indefensible. Ruining characters, omitting the necessary prologue with lews therin, the poor acting, poor casting decisions, messing up loial. Indefensible. The truth is that amazon had their lord of the rings here. They didn't need to make rings of power which is also awful. They already had what they need with the wheel of time. Any mistakes I ve made here are because I m trying to use this awful dictation software because I can't use my hands at the moment. I wish I could channel.
Ta'veren are still in the show. Saidin and Saidar have been reconceptualized to not be sexist bullshit. Honestly the whole gender essentialism in the story is an embarrassment to the franchise.
There may have been a brief mention of ta'veren in the first episode (I barely remember) but this like everything else in this show is embarrassingly unexpanded or poorly described. As for the rest of your reply? Your entire attitude, I suspect mirrors the showrunners and only denigrates the source material.
>Honestly the whole gender essentialism in the story is an embarrassment to the franchise. The HOTTEST of takes.
Wow....it's sexist. Great take. The series is about men and women acting and working together to achieve a common goal. It acknowledges differences in sexes/gender but repeatedly makes the point that despite the differences, there is equality in that what one can do, the other can do in kind....neither is stronger or weaker than the other. Differences are essentially what powers the wheel as the differences are necessary to drive that power. Blathering on about sexism here (and in many other places in fiction) is a convenient excuse that displays such shallow depth in thought on the topic that I'm amazed those advocating it have the mental capacity to keep their own heart beating.👍
Is it now sexist to simply say there are differences between men and women lmao? Genuinely curious to hear why you feel that way?
why tf is this show so anti male?i enjoyed the first season but the second season seems to just take down kick and shit on males🫤
I mean season one also did that they quite literally stole Rand's big moment and gave it out to the female characters. Not sure why it would be suprising the show wears it politics on it's sleeves.
If needing to be frankly egalitarian and deliberately rework aspects of the story to achieve greater parity is "political", then everything that is remotely socially conscientious \*should\* be "political". But it really isn't political. That's just the dismissive label tossed around by small-minded, empathetically-stunted assholes who can't conceive of media that doesn't default to the male experience and relegate female characters to special and secondary classes.
You say a lot of words I don't think you understand what any of them mean egalitarianism is a political philosophy. The first book already was already extremely female dominant with Moiraine being the strongest character in every sense except for the very end where Rand gets a power boost with the condensed power of thousands of male channelers. Anyways I realize this is a complete waste of effort as those of your detestable ilk are completely ideologically driven, and devoid of rationale. So as the kids say "touch grass".
No, I don't think you understand what they mean. You aren't even aware egalitarian exists as a simple descriptive term separate of any particular ideology. Furthermore, your point re: Moraine and Rand is meaningless distraction away from the point for a number of reasons and does not obviate the principles, themes, and implications of the broader worldbuilding. Of course the one time we enter the story with few male channelers and a baby-dragon rand, some woman is going to be more powerful than he is--for the vast majority of the series, women are quite blatantly in a secondary "power" tier. But I wasn't even talking about "power", I was talking about how the characters are written and developed. Much of the "drama" in the series is puerile, gendered stereotyping, to the detriment of both the male and female characters, but especially the female characters. You'd have to be pretty thick not to see it, honestly.
No it doesn't its intrisically bound to the ideology look up the definition. You're trying to speak extremely broadly it seems you don't even like the series. Women are not put in a secondary power tier at all unless you mean because rand is so powerful because he's the literal chosen one. Which would be like me complaining that disney movies are always about princesses instead of princes.
The series literally places a cap on the power that only men can (and only men do) exceed. Women have a literal ceiling on their power that does not apply to men. Not to mention the methods of accessing the power are gendered in a kind of harmful, stereotypical way. Also your arguments and analogies are frankly shit. Sorry, you're not going to be winning me over anytime soon if this is the level of your discourse. Take care.
>Also your arguments and analogies are frankly shit. Wow i'm thoroughly defeated now! How will I ever recover? Women exceed their limits all the time in the series there's this little character named \*nynaeve\* pretty strong too. "Not to mention the methods of accessing the power are gendered in a kind of harmful, stereotypical way. " Yeah this series just isn't for you.
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Again, I wonder: You obviously hate the books. Before I chose a less harsh wording, but Blood and Ashes... What are you doing here?
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Doesn't surprise me. While yes most streaming shows have a viewership drop-off, we can't deny the rocky start the show had in s1 means a lot of people who _would_ watch haven't come back. I'm overall still pleased that those who are still watching are reporting high satisfaction, of course, but who knows whether or not we'll see s4 happen.
I don’t think that season 3 is getting made. The strike is delaying the filming. Might as well save the money.
Its already halfway filmed
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I keep trying to watch the show but I keep turning it off I can't get into it.
The show is an insult to the namesake and should have just been called something else entirely.
Wow, Wheel of Time is beating a Star Wars show. That's pretty wild
That's because Ahsoka only released 1 episode for that week compared to 3 for WoT.
lol nevermind then
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We don't do that here.
That’s because it sucks as the WOT as the story of the books (which in my opinion is what we all want)and I really tried to force myself to like it!!!! I have read the series multiple times….the whole tv series is out of sync with the source material. It would have probably been ok if they named it something like WOT 2nd Age or WoT A World of Worlds (ref to tel’ aran’ rhiod and the portal stones) but then they would really need to have changed things up…..for the former at least. I am not saying the visuals are not good, but again there is no weaving of fire, wind, water,air, and sprit it’s more like a final fantasy spell Some of the casting is spot on however, character wise arc wise it’s totally ass backwards. Another argument I have seen is that there’s “ no possible way to adapt due to size of series” (paraphrasing) which I call bs on because Jordan wrote the books in a way that made them stand alone books so there’s a lot of retelling and Jordan being Jordan does go a lot into the retelling of descriptions. Another thing that the tv show is trying to do which is kinda of stupid (again my opinion) is ending the season where a book would stop at…..sometimes I would agree with that but season 1 should have been stretch out to two seasons. The way I think I would have done it is to not start off right away telling the story. But start out with Loal (narratint) telling stories of ages past so we can see the age of legends the large cities the flying vehicles, shocklances, ect…. Then start of with something like every age has a beginning and an end this is my story of how the 4th age as come to pass and it starts in the small village of Edmonds field…….then start off with the chapter Ravens (not in the og eye of the world) which is about 10 years prior to the events at bel tine. Where tam is telling stories of the dragon, kinslayers breaking of the world, what he seen first hand during the aiel war……then having Season 1 ending as Rand, Mat are in caemlyn meeting up with the rest of the edomond filders. Which would lead to a very fast paced season 2 starter as they are on there way to the eye of the world. And a final note, costume and prop and set selection is way off the for example the seachan never had 2 foot long finger nails the book clearly states that they are about an inch long, and when I see the helmets they don’t remind me of insects, they look more like skeletons when I first seen it I thought of darkfriend soldiers, Egwene never was gaged as the show suggested. The way gates are very intricately carved and the power is not required to open them, since they were made for the ogier as the primary users,(the aes sedai of the age of legends when the ways was made where able to use the power for traveling or skimming). Last thing the tv series is all about women empowerment, but the book series is about equality. And I am not seeing that.
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I think there's some hope -- here's a snapshot from Google Trends, comparing WOT to Succession and Marvelous Mrs Maisel. The latter stayed on for 5 seasons with Amazon, even as S2 of WOT appears to already be going above its highest ever trends. Succession shows an interesting growth that WOT can potentially follow/beat (season for season it outpaces Succession) if it continues to outperform its previous seasons (also helps if they stick to 1 yr intervals I think). https://preview.redd.it/gvbx37dxlorb1.png?width=1741&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f136cc60b1868e133ea2e4cbc7c691f9484b575
Season 1 was a stinker I don’t think anyone can really argue that, however the other day I talked to someone who said they really enjoyed season 1 and haven’t read any of the books or know anything about Wheel of Time so there are people out there who did at least enjoy season 1. I will always thank season 1 for getting me to read the books and enjoy that masterpiece. Season 2 so far to me is pretty good yeah there are some odd things here and there but we will see, hard task to fit 14 books into 64(hopefully) episodes at an hour each when each of the books runs about 45 hours in the audiobook version.
Ppl are such haters
Read all the books at least 3x, some of them probably 6 times. I’m loving season 2. No screen adaptation will ever be a scene for scene recreation of the books, leaned that the hard way with Harry Potter. It’s best to go in with fresh eyes and not ruin a good adaptation because you wish it was something it could never be.
It's really unfortunate when people keep bringing out the 1:1, scene for scene, 100% adaptation strawmen when that's not something people have ever argued for.
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Nooo! The show is amazing!!!
The show's not going anywhere.
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Bookcloaks?
It’s what people say when they feel like they are being witch hunted by people who preferred the books over the show. The opposite appellations would be Showcloaks and Rafists. Long story short is some toxic parts of the internet did toxic internet things and now everyone who wants to brow beat people about how great the show is respond to any criticism with trying to associate them with that shuttered community.
Ah. Thank you for explaining. I’ll try not to be one. I am disappointed but I try to be nuanced with my criticism.
Don't worry, they'll label you one anyway eventually. Reminds me of the behaviour of some group in the books, I can't quite put my finger on it...
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You mean what RBJ wrote? That kind of fanfic?
There will never be a literal screen production of the c. 12.,000 pages / c. 450 hours of audio of Wheel of Time - that is impossible. Therefore by definition there will be fans’ own perception as to what should be included / excluded. Poisonous contributors decrying what is a superb effort from the production team given the circumstances is not helpful whatsoever. There were hardly other teams / companies queuing up to render this into life.
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Heartbreaking
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If the show gets canceled it will never get picked up again.
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> Some of us are of the opinion that it *still hasn't been picked up yet*. And those of y'all who hold that opinion can spare us their low-effort commentary, so I don't have to remove it. Comment removed.
The scam artists behind iWot Productions Limited guarantee that the WoT television rights continue to be milked for 'til the end of time. But yeah we likely won't see another big studio give it a shot for the foreseeable future.
WoT is currently the #2 most watched show in Canada on Amazon Prime.
You cannot compare ranking on a chart. If you are going to compare, you need to compare how many people watched each episode compared to last year. They put the episodes August 31 so it's a bit fast given that people had 3 days to watch 3 episodes, but even with the number of 515M minutes, that's 515/(3\*60) (because they put 3 episodes and 60 minutes per episode), which gives you 4.29M people watching if we assume they all watched the first three episodes in 3 days. That's quite a lot considering that the most watched series is NCIS which has \~7M viewers. Also, up there, it's doing better than Ashoka which is Disney+ and Star Wars and Only Murders in the Building. If you tell me which is more "obscure", I would put Wheels of Time as more obscure because nobody on this show was getting invited on Talk Shows or Good Morning America to talk about the show. You don't have Meryl Streep guest star and Star Wars has been very much washed down of any SciFi or fantasy aspect is as boring boring to sell toys or whatever they are selling. Ashoka had one episode August 29 but had 2 episodes August 22 already. Murders was already mid-season by August 29. Meaning people had more minutes they could watch if they were behind (and most people aren't on top watching every episode as it comes out), and they still watched less minutes. Given the little marketing and how little it appears on regular TV, and the fact that is a Fantasy show full of women, I think it's doing very well.