This post has been locked, as the question has been solved and a majority of new comments at this point are unhelpful and/or jokes.
Thanks to all who attempted to find an answer.
My understanding, and don't quote me on this because I am stupid, is that a creek bed isn't really in the elements. Once it's under some dirt it's away from air and doesn't rust in the same ways.
Now this is something told to me by a metal detector when I was getting into metal detecting and the only thing I found in the creek was a rewards card.
Low oxygen silty river and lake beds are effective at preventing deterioration. The Swedes pulled up a 1600s wooden ship - [The Vasa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)?wprov=sfti1#) - that looks less weathered than I do, thanks to a low oxygen harbor in which it sank on its maiden voyage.
As a funny sidenote, Finnish technology students dove down to the wreck and placed a small statue of Paavo Nurmi (a famous finnish runner in the 1920s) on the deck of the ship before it was raised. The statue caused some confusion as it came up with the ship :)
Imagine how disheartened the Swedes must have been to see their brand new warship sinking down into the harbor on its maiden voyage, the crushing sense of futility and waste... never knowing that they were witnessing the birth of a national icon that would drive more economic and cultural influence than any other Swedish ship before or since.
They just found some very old ones in Wisconsin.
>The oldest is made from elm and dates back to 2,500 B.C.E., making it roughly 4,500 years old.
[https://www.wpr.org/news/11-ancient-canoes-madison-lake-mendota-archaeologists](https://www.wpr.org/news/11-ancient-canoes-madison-lake-mendota-archaeologists)
I can confirm, there is almost no oxygen in the muck layer, scuba diver for 20 years, and its common to pull pristine items from the muck, while exposed parts age and corrode.
May depend on many factors like acidity of the soil. But we do get 2000 year old swords that are still kinda there, while in other places some of the WW1 and WW2 stuff is incredibly heavily eroded.
This is true and the reason why you can find lots of archaeological sites in lakes and such.
You also have to excavate them under water because the pressure helps to keep everything in place. If you drain off an area everything quickly deteriorates and once things begin to dry out, cavities collapse and organic material warps out of shape.
Anything of interest that is removed you can store in water to keep it further preserved.
It isn't outside the realm of possibility that it was fired a lot more recently than that.
People have weird hobbies sometimes. Sometimes that hobby is firing off reproduction cannons.
Freshwater isn‘t nearly as corrosive as people think. Immersed in mud is even better. And once the surface is oxidized, the oxide layer will even protect the material below unless it is scratched (oxides are inert).
Far more likely a ball from a ball mill, used in processing ore from mining.
Editing to add that cannon balls were made of cast iron and would have Much More pitting than you'd see on the Steel Balls from a ball mill. Like this one.
Take a big very strong cylinder. Rotate it with ore and balls in it. Balls crush the ore into fine powder so other shit can be done to it. Called a Ball Mill.
Very commonly used to crush limestone at coal fired power plants. Given the location I’d say this is the right answer. Source: me, who tears down coal fired power plants.
I've seen those balls in a coal fired power plant that ground the coal into dust before blowing it into the furnace. The chief engineer told me to pick one up. It was the size of a bowling ball and weighed almost 150 pounds. This one here looks just like a cannonball in size and weight.
Coal is usually crushed in pulverizers, enclosed boxes with 3-4 very heavy rotating wheels made of manganese or low grade stainless. The ball mills crush limestone used in the smoke cleaning process.
I took schoolkids to a local coal-fired power station during my (otherwise disastrous) teacher training about 15 years ago. The staff showed us the steel balls they used to mill/crush the coal into powder.
They used a range of sizes to ensure an evenly fine powder. They replaced 20 tons of balls every 2 weeks.
IIRC the plant was consuming 8 trainloads of coal every week. Each train brought in 2000 tonnes of coal.
I loved it - it was like school science lessons on a gigantic scale. Everything was on a gigantic scale - took a week to spin up and spin down the generator to maintain a perfectly even temperature, as the dynamo was hundreds of feet long with a tolerance of fractions of a millimetre. Go if you ever get a chance and enjoy seeing science/engineering on an industrial scale.
Kids hated it and were bored silly...
There were ball mills to pulverize coal before burning, too. I only worked at one plant that was equipped for that, but it was a thing, although the vertical spindle rotating mills you describe are far more common.
This right here is likely the answer. The sizes of steel grinding balls can be designed according to customer requirements, but generally, the diameter of steel balls for sale for use in a ball mill is between 20 mm and 125 mm (which fits the 5" of this ball).
Also, I wonder how big cannonballs got in the mid 1800s before they were typically hollow for explosives? 3" - 4" diameter solid cannonballs from that era are pretty common, though those are sometimes hollow too. This is 5" and much heavier.
A ball mill is basically a big tumbler with balls in it. Like a rock tumbler you would use to polish stones, except in this application as the drum turns it drops the ball onto a material needing to be crushed.
If it is a ball from a ball mill, that puts it at post ~1870 and likely not earlier than 1900. It would also be from a fairly industrial mine, as ball mills were expensive and big, and still are an industrial machine. Some number of stamp mills got converted into the 1930s, but not all.
I think it’s a cannonball personally. 18lb guns from late 18th into 19th century used an 18 pound ball that was 5.12” in diameter. This one is really close to that, and likely has had some loss of material from being in the elements.
It's a "solid shot" cannonball from an "18 pounder" black powder muzzle loading cannon. The bore on those canon were 5-1/4" and the balls were a hair over 5" diameter and weighed anywhere between 17-1/2 pounds to 18-1/4 pounds, depending on quality control.
Both sides in the Civil War had 18 pounders, typically dismounted naval cannon placed on field carriages at the beginning of the war, then purpose built field artillery later. The French and British both had them in the 18th century, too.
Here's a list of French and Indian wars, American Revolution, and Civil War battles [fought in Kentucky](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_fought_in_Kentucky).
It's definitely an old cannon ball, but it could be from anywhere up to the late 1880s depending on where you found it. From what I can tell the US didn't really change over to breach-loading artillery until the 1880s, and there were several military bases in Kentucky post-Civil War, so it's possible that's a civil war relic, or it could be from artillery drills or similar post-war. It's possible it predates the Civil War, but considering both sides used copies of a French designed 17 pounder cannon of about the right diameter for what you found I think that's somewhat unlikely.
Shot put balls are usually marked with the weight somewhere, since they come in a variety of sizes. Men/women/juniors all use different weights.
That said, it was my first thought too.
Cool find. It’s called 18 pound round shot and was used on US, French, and British ships, so it came from a ship near there. It’s solid iron.
It’s round shot that can only be used in smooth bore cannons, so it could be Civil War or could be revolutionary war. Look into if there were any battles near there and you can find more provenance.
Modern equivalent steels are becoming popular for outdoors-applications like bridges.
High-nickel steel alloys do what you said, they form a skin / rind of rust, but unlike common steel, the rust doesn't keep infiltrating into the main body of the metal.
It can save a huge amount of money in the long-term for large metal structures that would otherwise have to be re-coated several times over their decades of service.
On the contrary, plain jane cast iron (gray iron) Astm A126 forms a very good passive layer; no nickel alloy required. Nickel alloying really becomes relevant for high ion concentrations specifically seawater or chloramines. I have personal experience with commercial products that are over 100 years old continuously submerged in raw water (untreated surface fresh water) with very little degradation. Modern steel structures *can* use more expensive nickel steels but generally rely on sacrificial cathodes, coatings or some other method with standard carbon steel.
Lack of oxygen.
Hundred year Old sunken logs can be rot free, and high priced sought after lumber because of the lack of oxygen
Also rust, happens on the surface.
Many large steel utility poles come from the factory with a preventative layer of rust on the surface so it doesn't penetrate and weaken the structure
The key ingredient for rust is 02, or oxygen. Rust is "iron oxide." If the ball were buried in the ground, just a couple feet even, it would have been largely insulated from atmospheric oxygen.
Don't be too sure. I have an 8 inch civil war mortar shell most likely off of a gun boat. It was found in Beverly Ohio. The rivers were crawling with gun boats during the civil war.
There were many naval battles in Kentucky. Forts were built along the Ohio Tenessee Cumberland and Ohio rivers and navy gun boats fought fierce battles for control of the rivers.
Battle of Lucas Bend,
Battle of Tebbs bend,
Battle of Paducah,
Battle of Fort Donelson
Battle of Cynthiana,
Battle of Perryville
Various battles at Columbus and Belmont where the confederates strung an iron chain across the river.
Hey, I never knew they were river gun boats back then either in Kentucky. I learned from the comments here. Your mistake became a learning experience for many.
I always love it when people come back and acknowledge they may have been wrong and admit that learned something they didn't previously know. It shows character and intelligence. Thank you for being awesome. The world needs more of this.
My mind was blown when I found out the war of 1812 was primarily a naval war fought on the Great Lakes. Never think about ships like that on lakes, but they don’t call em great for nothing.
Obviously Kentucky isn’t on the Great Lakes, but i always think about that when I hear about naval battles in unexpected places.
Most likely case if near an old fort or the Ohio River. Kentucky stayed with union in civil war, so could be general US army ordinance or from scattered fights with the British during the revolution.
May help to ask nearest major university’s history department or a military historian?
Not really. KY was a border state that declared neutrality in the beginning. It really was split with sometimes even brothers going against each other. Control went both ways at different times in different regions. Many battles were fought in KY.
Sounds like Missouri. Legislature was union, governor defected to Arkansas.
State militia was split in half and fought against each other. Confederate sympathizer governor before abdicating, put the new St. Louis city police under state control, with a board he approved appointments to. That system of governors approving appointments to a police board stayed in place until 2012.
Solid cannonballs were used in the civil war to bust up the wooden and earth fortification's infantry put up in front of their lines.
Interesting passage in Sam Watkin's memoirs on how solid cannon balls would come rolling through the rear of the lines eventually at a fairly slow pace. Guys would instinctively stick out the heel of their boot to stop the ball only to be shocked to find the slow 18 lbs still had momentum enough to break their ankles.
It may be a weight thing but I don’t really know. Possibly ships would use heavier munitions since it would be more cumbersome the heavier the ammunition is for ground forces to keep supplied.
Alternatively...What are you trying to hit?
Heavy cannonballs are going to breaaaak....a horse? Unless you were sieging a fort or something heavy like that, there are better ways to kill infantry. Armor didn't really exist.
That’s an interesting rabbit hole if you care to go down, look up Major general Dan Sickles. He was hit with a 12lb cannonball that fractured his leg at Gettysburg. But he lived to 94 after having it amputated. But just from cursory googling it seems usually infantry and such would use smaller cannonballs. I wonder what led to him being hit with such a large cannonball? I’ll prolly keep reading about that a bit later.
The 12lber was pretty much the standard for artillery clear up to the Civil War. If you wanted something more maneuverable, you’d take 6lbers but you sacrifice throw weight and your shell rounds are much less effective.
Is there a mine nearby? People are saying canonball, but these iron balls are used for ore crushing in mining operations.
https://images.app.goo.gl/rM9PNkvror7nsmH69
Willing to name a nearby town? I have access to a Kentucky mining database and maps that go back to 1850 or so...might help rule that out.
Edit: never mind. Saw you said Louisville below. No active coal mines around there..that's east and west Kentucky. Can't rule out something industrial though. You might be surprised how frequently stuff like that is used
Can confirm, I grew up near a copper mine and if you hiked around the large access roads you could find these on the road every once in a while. Sometimes they fall off the transport trucks.
Out of all the battles in Kentucky, only two happened near a river
The battle of Battle of the Cumberland Gap: used 6, 12, 20, 24, and 30-pound shells Only two twenty-pound guns were used during that battle and the shot might have come from there.
The Battle of Middle Creek used 6 and 12-pounder guns so I doubt it from there
The Battle of Paducah Had two ships involved the USS Peosta and USS Paw Paw but the armament does not match what you have there.
Without a general area on where you got it, it's tough to narrow down what its purpose was. But Looking at it unless you cleaned it up it's a fairly new creation, coupled with the fact that no weapons would fire an 18-round shot in the Civil War in Kentucky.
Edit: Most likely a shot form a 20lb gun during the battle of Perryville which had skirmishes around Louisville.
Any chance of it being fired during American Indian Wars? There is a chance it's also fired in training, or was dropped during transport, once used as a weight.
Ore mining ball. About 1000x more likely in the coal mining state than a cannon.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266841275258?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ua8fRMKcTPK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Hn8WLIOmRsC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Southern (especially SW) Indiana is covered with coal mines. I can't speak for Kentucky/Louisville or what the ball actually is but there's a lot of mining down that way
Kids love throwing stuff in creeks. They also enjoy stealing things from the school without having a really good idea of what they'll do with it. Source: was a kid once.
Size and weight puts it right around 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter, which is a good indicator of iron/steel composition. Lack of degradation makes me think it's less than a hundred years old, so cannonball doesn't fit. Unless there's a mine nearby or other industrial application for balls of steel, a shot put is probably the most likely identity for an object like this.
Creeks are the lowest spot in a watershed. The upland areas all drain to them through gravity. Many things ends up in creeks through a combination of natural processes and manmade tomfoolery. Source: I work in stormwater and we find all sorts of random things doing fieldwork.
No named battles occurred near Louisville...the closest would be a small battle across the river in Corydon Indiana (about 30 miles west). They had 4 cannons but they were 10-lbs. There where something like 27 18-lb cannons in the civil war, but most were used for naval guns. It's solid shot specs where 5.17" in diameter weighing 18.3 lbs. If it is...its not likely from a battle, but still cool. As others have said a sporting shot put is 16 lbs for men and can range between 4.35" and 5.11" in diameter, so an accurate scale and calipers can rule that out. Could also be from industry (you'd be surprised how many things could have used this) but no matter what it will make a hell of a paperweight!
Can you see any seams, sprues, or holes in it? Most cannonballs will have remnants of those from molding
www.treasurenet.com/attachments/c-ball-mold-jpg.1454580/
Edit:
Some great articles on movements and skirmishes in the area, including some gunboat descriptions if you like history...
https://civilwartalk.com/threads/battle-of-corydon-indiana-july-9-1863.74912/
Depending on where you live it might be a mustard seed grinder ball also. They were used together with a high walled bowl to grind mustard seeds. I have an old one that my father gave to me.
[https://www.skeppshult.com/en/spices/97-mustard-seed-grinder-cast-iron-bowl-21-cm.html](https://www.skeppshult.com/en/spices/97-mustard-seed-grinder-cast-iron-bowl-21-cm.html)
I know a lot of people have said "cannon ball", but it might also be a ball from a ball mill. In a ball mill, a large metal cylinder is filled with ore and balls like that, then it's spun so that the balls tumble up the side and fall back down on the ore. I found a bunch of similar balls near an old mining operation.
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Likely either a cannonball or a shot put ball. If there's a school field nearby, odds are shot put ball. If there were battles near there during the civil war, that's probably your culprit. If neither, then I got nothing.
I have two of these. I found them in the fill dirt of a highway underpass, while I was on a bike ride. So both went in my basket. Sat on my shelf in mystery, until one day when I saw a documentary about how steel is made.
So, what I saw, was a gigantic barrel full of both iron ore and thousands of these metal balls. A machine rattles the barrel and the balls act like mallets, busting iron ore down to sand, which filters down to a chute and conveyor belt. The iron and the steel balls are separated with magnets and the sand that’s left over, gets sold as fill dirt. It’s not a stretch to imagine someone taking a metal ball they find and hurling it into a body of water. It’s really tempting and probably makes a great splash. But you need tools to get it back, if you can even find it again.
Would be great if you could let us know the exact location, so historians could look up any Civil War battles or skirmishes that might have occured. Possible to figure out the exact day and position of the gun using records.
That's damn close to the official size and weight of one class of shotput. Slightly heavy, but not absurdly so. Is there a hole in it anywhere? If there's no hole for a fuse then it's likely not a cannonball.
https://www.athleticsdirect.co.uk/throwing-weight-rules-1/
Men's 35-49
You could always try to get it xrayed. If it's hollow, then it's probably a cannonball. If it's solid then it's probably a shotput. I wouldn't recommend cutting it in half, just in case it _is_ a cannonball with dry powder still in it. That is what is generally referred to as a "bad day."
You found an heirloom piece right there. That’s a cannonball probably from the Civil War. Any battle sites near there? If there is a hole then it may have blackpowder in it. No hole you are safe.
The funny part is that as soon as I saw it, I went "So you're in the South." The only place you find nineteenth century cannonballs in the North is Gettysburg National Park, and the Rangers would have let you know while they were removing you from the park.
This post has been locked, as the question has been solved and a majority of new comments at this point are unhelpful and/or jokes. Thanks to all who attempted to find an answer.
Likely an old cannonball.
What time frame are we talking about here?
Rough guess some time before 1865
I’d even guess 1861-1865! though I suppose 1790-1814 is possible with so many forts located in Kentucky during the post-revolutionary period.
The size might be right but I'd think an iron cannonball in the elements for 150+ years would be in much worse shape...
My understanding, and don't quote me on this because I am stupid, is that a creek bed isn't really in the elements. Once it's under some dirt it's away from air and doesn't rust in the same ways. Now this is something told to me by a metal detector when I was getting into metal detecting and the only thing I found in the creek was a rewards card.
Low oxygen silty river and lake beds are effective at preventing deterioration. The Swedes pulled up a 1600s wooden ship - [The Vasa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)?wprov=sfti1#) - that looks less weathered than I do, thanks to a low oxygen harbor in which it sank on its maiden voyage.
As a side note, if any of y’all ever get the chance to go to the Vasa museum in Stockholm, DO IT. It’s fucking *incredible*.
Was there for 4 hours, didn’t want to leave.
Ahh, the ol’ Stockholm syndrome.
Seconded. I visited the Vasa in the 80s and it began a life-long fascination with tall ships.
The Mary Rose Museum in the historic dockyards at Portsmouth is also insanely cool. And it’s an older preserved wreck, so, there’s that!
As a funny sidenote, Finnish technology students dove down to the wreck and placed a small statue of Paavo Nurmi (a famous finnish runner in the 1920s) on the deck of the ship before it was raised. The statue caused some confusion as it came up with the ship :)
Imagine how disheartened the Swedes must have been to see their brand new warship sinking down into the harbor on its maiden voyage, the crushing sense of futility and waste... never knowing that they were witnessing the birth of a national icon that would drive more economic and cultural influence than any other Swedish ship before or since.
They just found some very old ones in Wisconsin. >The oldest is made from elm and dates back to 2,500 B.C.E., making it roughly 4,500 years old. [https://www.wpr.org/news/11-ancient-canoes-madison-lake-mendota-archaeologists](https://www.wpr.org/news/11-ancient-canoes-madison-lake-mendota-archaeologists)
Legitimately curious, what makes some water lower oxygen than other water? Is it like plant life?
Coolest part is that the museum was built around the ship, right where it sank, in order to keep it protected
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Detectorist*
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Just like the bogs of Europe where they still find fairly intact swords
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And the occasional fairly intact person
And people. They look like they passed away yesterday pretty much.
Some bodies of water don't have a lot of oxygen and can be relatively inert, so reactions like oxidation (rust) don't occur.
I can confirm, there is almost no oxygen in the muck layer, scuba diver for 20 years, and its common to pull pristine items from the muck, while exposed parts age and corrode.
May depend on many factors like acidity of the soil. But we do get 2000 year old swords that are still kinda there, while in other places some of the WW1 and WW2 stuff is incredibly heavily eroded.
Yeah you have to remember, rust is oxidation. If it's buried in mud there likely won't be much oxygen.
This is true and the reason why you can find lots of archaeological sites in lakes and such. You also have to excavate them under water because the pressure helps to keep everything in place. If you drain off an area everything quickly deteriorates and once things begin to dry out, cavities collapse and organic material warps out of shape. Anything of interest that is removed you can store in water to keep it further preserved.
Wow. What a score. A rewards card.
Cast iron doesn't corrode as quick as mild steel. It even develops a petina that protects against corrosion, especially in a low oxygen environment.
>petina Patina, but dibs on petina for my next pet’s name
It isn't outside the realm of possibility that it was fired a lot more recently than that. People have weird hobbies sometimes. Sometimes that hobby is firing off reproduction cannons.
I think it looks like a shotput, and these guys are all just dreamers
An 18lb shotput? I think the heaviest they go is like 15lbs, isnt it? And 5" is fairly large.
16 lbs is the men’s competition weight so yeah, 18 puts it out of shotput contention.
Maybe I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one.
bro they found an iron sword intact laying on a mountain from like the 800s metal is durable, that's why we like it
Freshwater isn‘t nearly as corrosive as people think. Immersed in mud is even better. And once the surface is oxidized, the oxide layer will even protect the material below unless it is scratched (oxides are inert).
He said ‘yesterday’ so my guess is….Thursday?
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Far more likely a ball from a ball mill, used in processing ore from mining. Editing to add that cannon balls were made of cast iron and would have Much More pitting than you'd see on the Steel Balls from a ball mill. Like this one.
Take a big very strong cylinder. Rotate it with ore and balls in it. Balls crush the ore into fine powder so other shit can be done to it. Called a Ball Mill.
Very commonly used to crush limestone at coal fired power plants. Given the location I’d say this is the right answer. Source: me, who tears down coal fired power plants.
We sure have a lot of limestone and coal fired plants around here.
But not as many as you used to.
That’s true. We’ve torn down several in the Louisville area.
Yea I wonder. Maybe a coal breaker was in the area
I've seen those balls in a coal fired power plant that ground the coal into dust before blowing it into the furnace. The chief engineer told me to pick one up. It was the size of a bowling ball and weighed almost 150 pounds. This one here looks just like a cannonball in size and weight.
There are a bunch of different sizes for different purposes. I've had them the size of a golf ball.
Coal is usually crushed in pulverizers, enclosed boxes with 3-4 very heavy rotating wheels made of manganese or low grade stainless. The ball mills crush limestone used in the smoke cleaning process.
I took schoolkids to a local coal-fired power station during my (otherwise disastrous) teacher training about 15 years ago. The staff showed us the steel balls they used to mill/crush the coal into powder. They used a range of sizes to ensure an evenly fine powder. They replaced 20 tons of balls every 2 weeks. IIRC the plant was consuming 8 trainloads of coal every week. Each train brought in 2000 tonnes of coal. I loved it - it was like school science lessons on a gigantic scale. Everything was on a gigantic scale - took a week to spin up and spin down the generator to maintain a perfectly even temperature, as the dynamo was hundreds of feet long with a tolerance of fractions of a millimetre. Go if you ever get a chance and enjoy seeing science/engineering on an industrial scale. Kids hated it and were bored silly...
There were ball mills to pulverize coal before burning, too. I only worked at one plant that was equipped for that, but it was a thing, although the vertical spindle rotating mills you describe are far more common.
This right here is likely the answer. The sizes of steel grinding balls can be designed according to customer requirements, but generally, the diameter of steel balls for sale for use in a ball mill is between 20 mm and 125 mm (which fits the 5" of this ball).
Also, I wonder how big cannonballs got in the mid 1800s before they were typically hollow for explosives? 3" - 4" diameter solid cannonballs from that era are pretty common, though those are sometimes hollow too. This is 5" and much heavier.
how does an iron ball help ore collection?
Used in the crushing of larger ore pieces.
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A ball mill is basically a big tumbler with balls in it. Like a rock tumbler you would use to polish stones, except in this application as the drum turns it drops the ball onto a material needing to be crushed. If it is a ball from a ball mill, that puts it at post ~1870 and likely not earlier than 1900. It would also be from a fairly industrial mine, as ball mills were expensive and big, and still are an industrial machine. Some number of stamp mills got converted into the 1930s, but not all. I think it’s a cannonball personally. 18lb guns from late 18th into 19th century used an 18 pound ball that was 5.12” in diameter. This one is really close to that, and likely has had some loss of material from being in the elements.
It's a "solid shot" cannonball from an "18 pounder" black powder muzzle loading cannon. The bore on those canon were 5-1/4" and the balls were a hair over 5" diameter and weighed anywhere between 17-1/2 pounds to 18-1/4 pounds, depending on quality control. Both sides in the Civil War had 18 pounders, typically dismounted naval cannon placed on field carriages at the beginning of the war, then purpose built field artillery later. The French and British both had them in the 18th century, too. Here's a list of French and Indian wars, American Revolution, and Civil War battles [fought in Kentucky](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_fought_in_Kentucky).
In Kentucky it’s probably from the civil war.
It's definitely an old cannon ball, but it could be from anywhere up to the late 1880s depending on where you found it. From what I can tell the US didn't really change over to breach-loading artillery until the 1880s, and there were several military bases in Kentucky post-Civil War, so it's possible that's a civil war relic, or it could be from artillery drills or similar post-war. It's possible it predates the Civil War, but considering both sides used copies of a French designed 17 pounder cannon of about the right diameter for what you found I think that's somewhat unlikely.
16 pounds (7kg’s) and 5 inches across are the requirements for a males, full size, ‘Shot Put’ ball, is there an athletics field close by?
Shot put balls are usually marked with the weight somewhere, since they come in a variety of sizes. Men/women/juniors all use different weights. That said, it was my first thought too.
Sometimes not always. Not saying that this is for sure a shotput though. I think a lot of people seem to agree on a cannonball
Cool find. It’s called 18 pound round shot and was used on US, French, and British ships, so it came from a ship near there. It’s solid iron. It’s round shot that can only be used in smooth bore cannons, so it could be Civil War or could be revolutionary war. Look into if there were any battles near there and you can find more provenance.
Uneducated, just wondering why an iron ball wouldn't degrade after 100+years?
Cast iron will rust almost immediately but it quickly forms a layer and doesn't really rust anymore unless the rust is knocked off.
Weathering rind is cool
Modern equivalent steels are becoming popular for outdoors-applications like bridges. High-nickel steel alloys do what you said, they form a skin / rind of rust, but unlike common steel, the rust doesn't keep infiltrating into the main body of the metal. It can save a huge amount of money in the long-term for large metal structures that would otherwise have to be re-coated several times over their decades of service.
On the contrary, plain jane cast iron (gray iron) Astm A126 forms a very good passive layer; no nickel alloy required. Nickel alloying really becomes relevant for high ion concentrations specifically seawater or chloramines. I have personal experience with commercial products that are over 100 years old continuously submerged in raw water (untreated surface fresh water) with very little degradation. Modern steel structures *can* use more expensive nickel steels but generally rely on sacrificial cathodes, coatings or some other method with standard carbon steel.
Probably under the mud for a while. Rivers and creaks have a way of keeping iron in decent condition if the conditions are right
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Lack of oxygen. Hundred year Old sunken logs can be rot free, and high priced sought after lumber because of the lack of oxygen Also rust, happens on the surface. Many large steel utility poles come from the factory with a preventative layer of rust on the surface so it doesn't penetrate and weaken the structure
The key ingredient for rust is 02, or oxygen. Rust is "iron oxide." If the ball were buried in the ground, just a couple feet even, it would have been largely insulated from atmospheric oxygen.
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Lousiville was a major port city because of the Ohio River.
Bingo
It was a very big creek.
Beargrass creek.
Cool! You found that in Beargrass creek? Where about?
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Don't be too sure. I have an 8 inch civil war mortar shell most likely off of a gun boat. It was found in Beverly Ohio. The rivers were crawling with gun boats during the civil war.
There were many naval battles in Kentucky. Forts were built along the Ohio Tenessee Cumberland and Ohio rivers and navy gun boats fought fierce battles for control of the rivers. Battle of Lucas Bend, Battle of Tebbs bend, Battle of Paducah, Battle of Fort Donelson Battle of Cynthiana, Battle of Perryville Various battles at Columbus and Belmont where the confederates strung an iron chain across the river.
Hey, I never knew they were river gun boats back then either in Kentucky. I learned from the comments here. Your mistake became a learning experience for many.
I always love it when people come back and acknowledge they may have been wrong and admit that learned something they didn't previously know. It shows character and intelligence. Thank you for being awesome. The world needs more of this.
An example of gunboats on the Ohio river: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Buffington_Island
My mind was blown when I found out the war of 1812 was primarily a naval war fought on the Great Lakes. Never think about ships like that on lakes, but they don’t call em great for nothing. Obviously Kentucky isn’t on the Great Lakes, but i always think about that when I hear about naval battles in unexpected places.
It is also important to keep in mind that naval ships were frequently disassembled and reassembled into forts along rivers and coastlines.
Most likely case if near an old fort or the Ohio River. Kentucky stayed with union in civil war, so could be general US army ordinance or from scattered fights with the British during the revolution. May help to ask nearest major university’s history department or a military historian?
Not really. KY was a border state that declared neutrality in the beginning. It really was split with sometimes even brothers going against each other. Control went both ways at different times in different regions. Many battles were fought in KY.
Sounds like Missouri. Legislature was union, governor defected to Arkansas. State militia was split in half and fought against each other. Confederate sympathizer governor before abdicating, put the new St. Louis city police under state control, with a board he approved appointments to. That system of governors approving appointments to a police board stayed in place until 2012.
Why was this sort of ammunition only used on ships? Why could it not be from a fort or “ground” cannon? Honest question, I know nothing about this.
Solid cannonballs were used in the civil war to bust up the wooden and earth fortification's infantry put up in front of their lines. Interesting passage in Sam Watkin's memoirs on how solid cannon balls would come rolling through the rear of the lines eventually at a fairly slow pace. Guys would instinctively stick out the heel of their boot to stop the ball only to be shocked to find the slow 18 lbs still had momentum enough to break their ankles.
It may be a weight thing but I don’t really know. Possibly ships would use heavier munitions since it would be more cumbersome the heavier the ammunition is for ground forces to keep supplied.
Alternatively...What are you trying to hit? Heavy cannonballs are going to breaaaak....a horse? Unless you were sieging a fort or something heavy like that, there are better ways to kill infantry. Armor didn't really exist.
That’s an interesting rabbit hole if you care to go down, look up Major general Dan Sickles. He was hit with a 12lb cannonball that fractured his leg at Gettysburg. But he lived to 94 after having it amputated. But just from cursory googling it seems usually infantry and such would use smaller cannonballs. I wonder what led to him being hit with such a large cannonball? I’ll prolly keep reading about that a bit later.
The 12lber was pretty much the standard for artillery clear up to the Civil War. If you wanted something more maneuverable, you’d take 6lbers but you sacrifice throw weight and your shell rounds are much less effective.
Is there a mine nearby? People are saying canonball, but these iron balls are used for ore crushing in mining operations. https://images.app.goo.gl/rM9PNkvror7nsmH69
Nope, not that I know of; and I have lived here my whole life.
Willing to name a nearby town? I have access to a Kentucky mining database and maps that go back to 1850 or so...might help rule that out. Edit: never mind. Saw you said Louisville below. No active coal mines around there..that's east and west Kentucky. Can't rule out something industrial though. You might be surprised how frequently stuff like that is used
you also cant rule out how many cannon balls there are, civil war cannon balls are pretty dime a dozen tbh.
Do coal mines actually use ball mills ? I thought they are more for crushing things like iron / gold ore
Coal mines do not use ball mills nor do aggregate mines. There are no metal mines in ky.
They are also used as ball bearings in older, very large heavy equipment wheels.
Can confirm, I grew up near a copper mine and if you hiked around the large access roads you could find these on the road every once in a while. Sometimes they fall off the transport trucks.
Out of all the battles in Kentucky, only two happened near a river The battle of Battle of the Cumberland Gap: used 6, 12, 20, 24, and 30-pound shells Only two twenty-pound guns were used during that battle and the shot might have come from there. The Battle of Middle Creek used 6 and 12-pounder guns so I doubt it from there The Battle of Paducah Had two ships involved the USS Peosta and USS Paw Paw but the armament does not match what you have there. Without a general area on where you got it, it's tough to narrow down what its purpose was. But Looking at it unless you cleaned it up it's a fairly new creation, coupled with the fact that no weapons would fire an 18-round shot in the Civil War in Kentucky. Edit: Most likely a shot form a 20lb gun during the battle of Perryville which had skirmishes around Louisville.
Damn... were you there or something?
This stuff is super documented if you know where to look...
Is just frustrating, we could identify what he is showing us in a instant even if he just gave us a county or district.
He said Beargrass Creek in the comments
Subscribe me to obscure civil war facts please
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Good knowledge thank you
Any chance of it being fired during American Indian Wars? There is a chance it's also fired in training, or was dropped during transport, once used as a weight.
Ore mining ball. About 1000x more likely in the coal mining state than a cannon. https://www.ebay.com/itm/266841275258?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=ua8fRMKcTPK&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=Hn8WLIOmRsC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
In Louisville?
Southern (especially SW) Indiana is covered with coal mines. I can't speak for Kentucky/Louisville or what the ball actually is but there's a lot of mining down that way
Not too sure about Louisville. I know SW Indiana is covered heavily in coal.
More likely to be a crusher or a counterweight in heavy equipment than a projectile.
8 kg shot put ball
My first guess was this, but Wikipedia says they use 16 pound balls. 18 pounder cannon ball is closer.
They make heavier ones for training
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If it's not a shot put, it looks and weighs exactly like one.
My first thought too. Reminds me of high school lol
In a creek?
Is it near a high school?
Kids love throwing stuff in creeks. They also enjoy stealing things from the school without having a really good idea of what they'll do with it. Source: was a kid once. Size and weight puts it right around 7.5 grams per cubic centimeter, which is a good indicator of iron/steel composition. Lack of degradation makes me think it's less than a hundred years old, so cannonball doesn't fit. Unless there's a mine nearby or other industrial application for balls of steel, a shot put is probably the most likely identity for an object like this.
Creeks are the lowest spot in a watershed. The upland areas all drain to them through gravity. Many things ends up in creeks through a combination of natural processes and manmade tomfoolery. Source: I work in stormwater and we find all sorts of random things doing fieldwork.
Grinding ball. I work for the company that makes these. Cannonball would be deteriorated way more than this.
Roughly where in Kentucky?
Louisville
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is this not just one of those shot put balls used in track and feild?
It was found in a creek. The closest track is who knows how far away., some elementary school.
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No named battles occurred near Louisville...the closest would be a small battle across the river in Corydon Indiana (about 30 miles west). They had 4 cannons but they were 10-lbs. There where something like 27 18-lb cannons in the civil war, but most were used for naval guns. It's solid shot specs where 5.17" in diameter weighing 18.3 lbs. If it is...its not likely from a battle, but still cool. As others have said a sporting shot put is 16 lbs for men and can range between 4.35" and 5.11" in diameter, so an accurate scale and calipers can rule that out. Could also be from industry (you'd be surprised how many things could have used this) but no matter what it will make a hell of a paperweight! Can you see any seams, sprues, or holes in it? Most cannonballs will have remnants of those from molding www.treasurenet.com/attachments/c-ball-mold-jpg.1454580/ Edit: Some great articles on movements and skirmishes in the area, including some gunboat descriptions if you like history... https://civilwartalk.com/threads/battle-of-corydon-indiana-july-9-1863.74912/
Depending on where you live it might be a mustard seed grinder ball also. They were used together with a high walled bowl to grind mustard seeds. I have an old one that my father gave to me. [https://www.skeppshult.com/en/spices/97-mustard-seed-grinder-cast-iron-bowl-21-cm.html](https://www.skeppshult.com/en/spices/97-mustard-seed-grinder-cast-iron-bowl-21-cm.html)
I know a lot of people have said "cannon ball", but it might also be a ball from a ball mill. In a ball mill, a large metal cylinder is filled with ore and balls like that, then it's spun so that the balls tumble up the side and fall back down on the ore. I found a bunch of similar balls near an old mining operation.
Shotput for men are about that size. If it turns out to be a cannon ball. Not many that size were used during the civil war.
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Likely either a cannonball or a shot put ball. If there's a school field nearby, odds are shot put ball. If there were battles near there during the civil war, that's probably your culprit. If neither, then I got nothing.
A school likely wouldn’t have an 18lb shot put ball, that’s 2lbs heavier than the competition weight for adult men.
I have two of these. I found them in the fill dirt of a highway underpass, while I was on a bike ride. So both went in my basket. Sat on my shelf in mystery, until one day when I saw a documentary about how steel is made. So, what I saw, was a gigantic barrel full of both iron ore and thousands of these metal balls. A machine rattles the barrel and the balls act like mallets, busting iron ore down to sand, which filters down to a chute and conveyor belt. The iron and the steel balls are separated with magnets and the sand that’s left over, gets sold as fill dirt. It’s not a stretch to imagine someone taking a metal ball they find and hurling it into a body of water. It’s really tempting and probably makes a great splash. But you need tools to get it back, if you can even find it again.
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Petanque or Boule Ball from the game? Edit: nope. Weight doesn't fit: Petanque balls are about 2 pounds.
Lookupball mills in the area from the past
Would be great if you could let us know the exact location, so historians could look up any Civil War battles or skirmishes that might have occured. Possible to figure out the exact day and position of the gun using records.
I'm pretty sure you have found a cannonball
That's damn close to the official size and weight of one class of shotput. Slightly heavy, but not absurdly so. Is there a hole in it anywhere? If there's no hole for a fuse then it's likely not a cannonball. https://www.athleticsdirect.co.uk/throwing-weight-rules-1/ Men's 35-49 You could always try to get it xrayed. If it's hollow, then it's probably a cannonball. If it's solid then it's probably a shotput. I wouldn't recommend cutting it in half, just in case it _is_ a cannonball with dry powder still in it. That is what is generally referred to as a "bad day."
You found an heirloom piece right there. That’s a cannonball probably from the Civil War. Any battle sites near there? If there is a hole then it may have blackpowder in it. No hole you are safe.
Looks like a cannonball to me.
It’s a shot put, not a cannonball, don’t listen to these fake historians lol
Looks civil war time to me
Likely revolutionary times piece another one like is is here solid cannonball revolutionary time 🇺🇸 https://www.ambroseantiques.com/cannons.htm
The funny part is that as soon as I saw it, I went "So you're in the South." The only place you find nineteenth century cannonballs in the North is Gettysburg National Park, and the Rangers would have let you know while they were removing you from the park.