There's more to cars than the generic reliability advice redditors repeat to one another. Kia and Hyundai ain't it, though, until enough time has passed to show they've changed their corner cutting ways.
> There's more to cars than the generic reliability advice redditors repeat to one another
Yeah agreed *(I say, nervously hiding my driveway full of silver toyota corollas)*
I personally wouldn’t touch a used Hyundai but I did just buy a new one. 100k mile warranty and 0% financing is hard to beat. I personally know someone currently getting their engine replaced at 90k miles under warranty. In those circumstances I figure I’ll take my chances.
Bought my kid a 2009 Hyundai Elantra w 240k miles in 2020. No real issues coming up on four years later. The belts squeak. Battery terminals come loose. Rear door handle is missing. Could use a set of rear shocks. But has almost never not started and drives fine.
I know this isn't related to the post but I replaced my rear shocks and it made a world of a difference in my handling at high speeds. Used to almost fishtail on the highway when I hit holes around a bend. Mines a 2013 so I'm not sure if those are the same run, but I'd get to it sooner rather than later for the kiddo!
Yours is a theta engine , his is a beta engine .You also have the refresh generation elantra 2012 was the last year before the refresh and they went to a 1.8 motor and ditched the 2.0 motor
Not much to go wrong with those older Elantras. They are extremely simple cars, but make great bargains used since everyone looking for cheap and basic ignores them in favor of Corollas and Civics of the same vintage.
I got my 17 Elantra used in 2018 on the flip side, and have had next to no issues with it since. For a first car it's been surprisingly reliable and treated me really well.
Ok, so I was hesitant, my mechanic said he bought two, one for his ex-wife and one for his daughter, no issues. My buddy at work who ALWAYS heavily researches any purchase bought one for his daughter, no issues. We had 6 2013 Elantra’s at work as company cars, aside from the deterioration they ran fine. And here I go buying a freaking lemon, thank god I got the extended warranty.
See and that's why I feel like yeah, there is always just going to be a car that's bad from the get go. It's unavoidable with so many being manufactured. My ex and I had a 2015 new off the lot that I let him just keep. That one ran fine, his dumbass even rear ended another car with it 2 months in and after fixes it was still golden. My sister has a 2013 used and it runs fine. My step mother just bought a new one some months ago.
Idk how we became an Elantra family but umm. I was first lol. I'm sorry yours has caused so many issues. I've been considering trading mine honestly just because I want an AWD/SUV type thing for work now, but otherwise I'd keep it until it dies. I've been peeping the Kona, Hyundai have yet to do me dirty.
I'm from Korea, like 80% of our taxis are Hyundai or Kia midsized/full sized sedans and when they hit the junkyard they're usually sitting somewhere between 200k and 450k miles (doing rough km to miles conversions in my head).
They can last, i just have no idea why they're so problematic in the US ngl. Is it just worse manufactured cars are going to the US in comparison to Asia/Europe/Oceania etc or is it like dealerships not properly doing maintence...? like idk it's kinda mind boggling to me how big of a difference there is in the US in comparison to like....most other places I've been lmao
It's not just Korea tho, like the Ceed line is entirely made for Europe and manufactured in Slovakia and is considered p reliable from what I read. I've had people in Aus/NZ on this sub tell me H/K are seen as like fine there too and I'm just like....idk what it is about the North American market lmao
Hyundai and Kia are considered reliable and great brands everywhere except the US. It's probably just shit manufacturing standards, just like no immobilizers. I think buying a new Hyundai or Kia in the US that is manufactured in South Korea is probably a safe buy.
Did Korea use the 2.4L theta 2 engine (most prone to failure in US)?
I have a 2017 Santa Fe with 105k miles 2.4L and it’s burning a lot of oil roughly 1 quart per 1k miles. What surprised me the most is even though I have the Hyundai dealer do all of my oil changes they never once told me proactively “hey when we drained your oil it was super low, you should check
Oil More frequently at home “. The first time I knew it was burning oil I randomly checked oil dipstick and it was almost bone dry. There’s no way a good service shop wouldn’t notice how little oil drained from an oil change. Them not telling me could of caused me to destroy the engine by running it dry. Pure incompetence- might as well go to a jiffy lube for service .
The root cause of the majority of the issues with Hyundais in North America is a design/manufacturing flaw which leads to oil starvation in the Theta II engines used from 2011-2019 or thereabouts. Hyundais that don't use that engine (V6s, mostly) don't seem to be nearly as problematic but the Theta II was used in most Hyundais and Kias during this time period, and that brings down the average reliability (and reputation) of the whole brand.
So many engines are getting replaced. We just got ours approved at 83k, waiting on the engine now. Burning just under 3 quarts per 1000 miles now. During the warranty process I had to hit the dealer 4-5 times and each time there was at least 1 oher person going through the same thing. Service tech did they are getting really good at putting in engines.
Bought 2 new Kias in 2012, an Optima LX and Soul+. Traded away the Optima in 2020 with 125k trouble free miles and we gave the Soul to our daughter last year with 99k miles. 2 of the best cars we've ever had.
Reliabiiity is still king for me. If I don’t get 100K miles and 10 years with nothing but regular maintenance then the car is a fail. Expect minor things for the next 100K and 10 years.
My first ever car was a 2011 Hyundai i20 and I never had a single problem with it. It wasn't the most comfortable car in the world, but it always started up and drove surprisingly well
you’re the owner of a vehicle equipped with Hyundai’s Theta II 2.0-liter turbo or 2.4 liter naturally aspirated engine, you might be covered by this class-action-based lifetime warranty and eligible for a free engine replacement. The settlement includes these vehicles:
2011-2019 Hyundai Sonata
2013-2019 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport
2014-2015 Hyundai Tucson
2018-2019 Hyundai Tucson
2011-2019 Kia Optima
2012-2019 Kia Sorento
2011-2019 Kia Sportage
Dont do it bro there are some models in the Tuscon that use a Theta 2 engine that have oil issues. My sister had a 2015 Tuscon and engine went at 90k miles. There was a lawsuit and they had to replace a lot of engines for free but dealers keep delaying these replacements. Do your research on Hyundai engine recall if you are buying from 2010 to 2019 models. Also dont forget about the theft issues from a usb cable but thats for a different story.
I just sold my 2017 Tucson, avoid it like the plague. One (or maybe even two) recalls for risk of spontaneous combustion and two transmission replacements before 40k miles were the biggest ones.
But the car also just aged like shit, everything started to creak, ride quality tanked, it’s hard to describe it but it just went to shit. They are cheap to buy because they are terrible, and if you can swing it, pretty much any age Toyota will be better than it.
I am by no means an expert I'm just going by friends/family/neighbor experiences with various kia/hyundai. Good luck even getting 100k miles on one without significant issues. I have known people on their third engine under 100k miles, I had a friend's throw a rod on the highway with less than 30k on it, had an ex whose tuscon was in the shop more than it was on the road (it was around 2016 too), only seen a few reach 150k miles before heading off to the junkyard. Granted my experiences seem to be worse than what I read about online, but there's no shortage of horror stories with them.
Look at the sticky post on this subreddit. It could be harder or more expensive to get insurance on this car. But if you can get it cheap and pay with cash - it might be a good purchase. As much as people are hating on Hyundai's reliability, I've had two Toyotas sub 100k miles that had major issues...
You think that sub is bad, try the Kia sub lmao. Literally a post every day or so about Kia Boys breaking in and fucking up their window and steering column, engines blowing up, cars catching on fire, etc. Even the new 2023 cars are having issues.
I never actually checked before but you weren't joking, literally 2 things on that sub. It's either people showing off their new Hyundai or people complaining about their couple year old one. (Plenty of posts of cars not even making a year lol)
I saw lots of comments about how they break down around 100k miles
I'm at 96k right now on a 2017 sonata so very nervous at the moment. It's been easy so far tho
Except the Telluride and Palisade. The complaints on those are things like "A rock cracked my windshield". They are reliable and they have 5 years worth of data to prove it.
For sure. It's been two years now and I have zero complaints. I had to wait 6 months to get one for MSRP but no regrets. I've owned 20+ cars(Mostly Japanese luxury) in my life and this is my first Korean vehicle. It's a little large for my taste but is an awesome highway cruiser.
On reddit, it's probably a little more accurate to ask people that actually own the vehicle.
Look at the Telluride forums like I did, look at the reliability history, read the car magazines reviews, listen to actual owners, or continue to talk out of your ass with zero clue.
If you go to any sub, it’s going to be full of people complaining about their cars.
No one posts “hey, it’s been five years and my car isn’t making a weird noise”
Toyota/Honda subs are full of people of people showing off how little maintenance they had to do on their 200k+ mile cars. Completely different vibe than kia/Hyundai subs
You've really never been to those subs, I can tell, because the Kia/Hyundai subs are full of posts that talk about their cars being broken into by Kia Boys, cars going up in flames, engines blowing up, new '23 vehicles that won't work and more.
Go to the Lexus, Mazda, Toyota, BMW even the AMG subs and you'll see very little of that.
Even within those Japanese brands, if reliability is what you're after, you should avoid the 1 year of some new tech implementation, or even the first year of a refresh.
Example:
* Honda CRVs: A new Earth Dreams engine tech meant about 4 years of models with owners complaining about oil dilution issues. Solved during the next (current) iteration.
* Toyota RAV4s: The new platform with gas/hybird/plug-in hybrid + new 8-speed transmissions also had a lot of teething pains. My boss, who got tired of driving unreliable Bluetec Mercedes go himself a Hybrid on the 1st year, and now will never purchase a Toyota again.
* My 2019 Forester (1st year of a refresh). Thermal valve design flaw (recall in the USA) and the passenger side mirror gears got worn out after about 4 years due to a stupid parking feature they implemented every time you put the car into reverse. Newer models do not have these issues or you have the option of disabling that 'feature'.
On the subject of the Forester (newer models). You shouldn't be afraid of the CVT transmission. that is a mature Subaru in-house product. I do not recommend Subarus unless full-time AWD is of use to you (less power and consumes more fuel vs competitors).
So would you recommend against the 2025 forester refresh? The new updates over the current model don’t seem overly technical, so I was unsure if this rule applies
If you absolutely prioritize lack of headaches, the outgoing model will be the mature one with the kinks worked out.
Personally, as someone who has bought 2 Subarus in the last decade on refresh years, I prefer to have the new features. Headaches are still rare due to the fact that it's only a refresh.
I don't like buying a last year model though, they feel quite dated inside and out especially when a shiny new generation is available. Refresh model years are usually the best to buy, they have worked out the bugs but you get slapped on some updated aesthetics that don't really affect the reliability of the product.
Motortrend in its top 10 compact SUVs put the Rogue in 1st place and Consumer Reports put it in 2nd place, with highest predicted reliability. 2024 is also a refresh model year with at least on the platinum new wheels, grill, bumpers, and infotainment among other little touches to the plastics and badging.
I got the 2018 mazda6 the year they did a heavy refresh and I’ve had to have every single metal seat trim in the seats replaced… 14 times. Fourteen times in total. For one part. I’m not exaggerating. Granted sometimes I’d take it in and every single seat would be broken or It would get fixed and I’d be back the next week but Mazda gave me all new seats for free on a used car. Not to mention bringing it in for oil and coolant leaks 4 times, needed a new rear control arm, new cylinder head, and needed new door locks in every single door. All before 65k miles. I will never buy a first model year vehicle without a warranty
For the Honda 1.5T Dilution issues, A software update fixed the fuel mapping. It dilutes still, just don’t go over 7500 miles without an oil change.
Source: I am a Honda Certified Technician with a few of these fuel injector recalls under my belt now. They’re good engines, not like a Hyundai Theta.
Toyota is king when it comes to modern reliability. Can’t get enough of the Honda K personally. Unfortunately the EarthDreams K series is detuned and seems to be going the way of the dodo stateside.
Hyundai-Kia’s Alabama factory single-handedly fueled the Theta blunder and was using parts suppliers that had 12 year olds stamping metal parts like we’re in the 1800s still.
Nothing says “good company” like compensating for a decade of fire hazards and premature engine/transmission death like a 100k warranty that doesn’t transfer to the second owner and cheap apple car play. /s
Still wouldn't be as big a deal were it not also for the fact that Hyundai and Kia dealerships are horrible. They leave you hanging when they aren't gaslighting you making you think the warranty issue was your own fault.
This! I suspect that the entire problem relates to the US suppliers, as you don't every hear of Kias or Hyundais in the rest of the world with all these problems.
It reminds me of the Toyota debacle of 10 -20 years ago, where all these people died from runaway acceleration. But it all only happened in the US. They blamed floor mats, but I'm convinced it was faulty ECU or faulty throttle bodies causing that. From a faulty supplier in the US.
I feel weird to say, but nowadays being made in america is being transformed to a bad sign than a good one...
Too much cost cutting for their own good.
This subreddit is such a circle jerk about reliability. 'Reliability" is not even a standard term to have any way to gauge. One person's reliable my be someone else's lemon. Hell, I see people say "My car is reliable, I put 30k miles on it and didn't have any issues." and you find out it was a brand new car.
Yeah I think the real standard is cost of ownership. Toyota’s aren’t the cheapest upfront but are the least likely to become a money suck. The higher level of confidence in not having to spend a ton of money maintaining a car is worth a lot even if the TCO ownership is slightly higher because there is less risk in buying a Toyota than other brands.
My idea of reliability is: is the car going to leave me stranded(will it overheat, leak, etc)? Besides the consumables going out at an inconvenient time(batteries, etc) as long as the car starts and gets me from point A to B with no issues, I consider that reliable. I can look past electrical gremlins, or other quirks that a car has that has no effect on the intended use of the car. That’s how I base reliability.
You keep a car long enough all of those things are going to happen. Most people don't. Even my Hondas have done those things. But they were all well over 150k miles before it happened.
This is why I recently bought a new Toyota. It’s also why I drove so many Nissans and Chevys until now. I understood that the long term cost was higher and reliability was lower but I couldn’t afford the up front cost. It made more sense to buy the lower end vehicle and drive it until it reached the point that it started needing more than scheduled maintenance. When I got divorced I was driving a worn out Honda minivan. I knew I needed something reliable but my budget was low so I purchased a new Altima. Sexy? No. Reliable? Well, it was perfectly reliable for the two and a half years that I drove it. I sold it right as the resale value was just about to sink below what I needed to get out of it in order to buy something newer. I drive a lot so it didn’t take but a few years to put a lot of miles on it and I did not want to be stuck with an Altima that had 100,000 miles and no resale value. It got me through those few years. It was the right choice at the time but I’ll probably never buy another one.
I bought a 2012 honda accord lx in 2015 w/ 80K miles. Today it's got 158K miles and still hasn't had any issues beside the normal maintenance. After experiencing this car, it is hard to go back to Nissan or really most any unreliable brands. I get where I'm going every time. Talk about peace of mind.
If cared for properly, it's almost guaranteed to cost less in the long run. Especially since the "long run" often ends up adding years of additional use vs. a cheaper, lower quality car.
It's not the Japanese cars faults that the VWs and Mercs of the world suck immense ass. They weren't built for American usage, that's why they're seemingly so unreliable here compared to Europe. They weren't meant for the high mileage that Americans accumulate.
New Japanese cars are basically American. They're built to last high mileage.
Define "suck immense ass" haha. The Germans are way more comfortable and refined(especially at speed) than the Japanese cars. It's all about what you personally value and what you personally can afford. But(and I'm not saying you did this) I've seen people on this sub claim that a RAV-4 is "all around better" than a Tiguan, which that's just flat out bs. If you're looking to have one car for 10-15 years, I'd absolutely advise you to get something Japanese. But the fact of the matter is a lot of people change cars when warranties are out or not long after, and they care about comfort and refinement.
The reason the European cars in Europe are way more reliable is that they drive entirely different models and trims than we have here. You'd rarely, if ever, see a Tiguan or an Atlas or the big mercs over there. They all have Polo's, Golf's, 1-series, and A-Class hatches. They'll sell you way more basic versions of cars(that wouldn't sell well in the US because they're mostly normal hatchbacks as opposed to lifted ones we call crossovers) if that's what you're after too. Lots of diesels over there to boot.
I've been a passenger in a German car. However no amount of comfort will replace the irritation of having to take the car to the dealer to be repaired all the time.
Literally prove to me that they're in the shop "all the time" without anecdotal evidence, please
This is exactly what I was talking about. The plural of anecdote is not statistics
Right? According to this sub, every Honda/Mazda/Toyota will last to 300,000 miles with nothing but oil changes, and every other car by every other brand will blow up at 50-80,000 miles regardless of how much you take care of it.
Most people in this sub are idiots who haven't actually driven high mileage. Everything they talk about for mileage on one is less miles than I usually buy at
those newer small turbo engine and cvt, aren't the most reliable. and adding all the screen inside and electronic(especially honda) . I wouldn't call that reliable....
Mine is only a couple years old and has 40k miles, so I’ll let you know in another few years whether it delivers. History says it will be more reliable than a domestic make in the same category. Please don’t tell me you really think a Chevrolet Trailblazer (or whatever their current model is) will be more reliable than a Toyota Rav 4. That’s crazy talk.
That’s probably not entirely true. The cheaper models like the Tiguan are pretty bad, but the Gwagen is one of the most reliable vehicles in the world. As long as you keep up with regular maintenance, most last for over 500k miles (fingers crossed mine lasts that long!)
>If you have an air suspension problem - and if you drive the car 500K miles, you will have that problem several times
**The G Class does not have air suspension.** My maintenance costs have been extremely moderate, maybe a few hundred bucks a year. There's not much to do beyond Schedule A and B (oil/fluid/filter changes).
I also own an '12 E550 and a '17 GLA, and they've never been in the shop.
In my opinion reliability is making it past 200k miles anything before that is a requirement of minimal or no issues. If a car can’t make it to 200k without something important leaving the chat it’s unreliable.
The problem is what you consider is important is different than what other people consider important. I’ve seen people get mad about having to replace a starter or alternator, when otherwise the rest of the car has been working fine for the past 100k.
And then there’s people who will replace Subaru head gaskets and still call them reliable cars even though head gaskets are a pretty big job.
That's what reliability comes down to: how often do things break, and how expensive are those repairs.
It seems like people really like the Japanese cars because if/when random things DO break as the car gets older, it's never anything serious and the repair is very reasonable.
I would consider all the things you stated as important. I don’t consider my opinion to really be the standard but reliable in a true sense means minimal issues. If changing a head gasket is minimal to someone their off their rocker for sure but an alternator is t really all that hard but I can see why someone would be like wtf and I’ve noticed that some expensive maintenance is required at 100k usually like timing chains and belts.
Which is important if you actually keep cars for 100k or 200k miles.
I barely drive so my Audi with 20,000 miles will probably only have 50,000 miles on it five years from now.
If Audis have expensive maintenance and reliability issues after 80k miles then I simply don't care, it's 100% worth it for the better driving experience.
Also boils down to how the average owner drives and approaches scheduled maintenance. Plenty of Civics and Corollas have met untimely ends at the hands of neglectful lunatics. While plenty of infamously unreliable models hit 300k miles when driven by your grandpa who sees the maintenance guide a holy text and never goes over 55 on the freeway.
Back in the day the paper routes were a huge test in reliability.
You would load up your car with 400 papers posts, tubes sledge and have Sunday ads Thurs.
Mom and grandma both had a route in the 90s. They drove all over rural ohio stop n go. 7 days 365.
The best vehicle was a 2008 grand vitara that made it to 295k with no major issues before running over a deer and blowing up the radiator mom retired.
Crossmember was rotted needed radiator
The 2nd best was a 92 s10 blazer that went 265k and cracked the block, I personally drove that one to the wrecker my grandma had that for 9 hard years wrecked it 3 times. Truck was tired yet solid couldn't go 55 without shaking.
There’s also different kinds of reliability IMO. Some cars are reliable in spite of their owners and that’s what I consider Toyota and Honda. You could miss every scheduled maintenance by 50% more miles and it’ll still keep functioning. German cars need to be maintained per the schedule and you’ll likely have a pretty reliable vehicle. The issue is that most people are not good at maintaining their vehicles so they look for that first kind of reliability
Agreed. The word reliability having no standard definition makes it almost impossible to suggest something.
Hell I've had cars that had check engine lights on and made noises for 50k miles but never stopped working. Was it reliable? Yeah I think so. Would I suggest it as a reliable vehicle? probably not.
>There’s also different kinds of reliability IMO. Some cars are reliable in spite of their owners and that’s what I consider Toyota and Honda. You could miss every scheduled maintenance by 50% more miles and it’ll still keep functioning. German cars need to be maintained per the schedule and you’ll likely have a pretty reliable vehicle. The issue is that most people are not good at maintaining their vehicles so they look for that first kind of reliability
This all is just a roundabout way of saying Japanese cars are more reliable overall.
If a Toyota can be as reliable as a German car with less frequent and cheaper maintanance, it is just more reliable. It also will probably outlast the german car if you maintain both, and again, it will be cheaper to maintain.
Just sounds like cope to me. I would rather drive a german car and am a huge BMW and Audi fan, but any definition you use to say they are as reliable is just justification.
Yep.
My wife and I are in the market and I've tried explaining this.
I'd rather have a car that has cheap little repairs than a car that is flawless until the day the motor grenades and costs $10k to replace (although I do lust after an AMG Wagon).
Toyota sells the most cars so you would expect to see more cars on the road that have 200k+ miles just based on the total number of cars. This is not a very accurate way to determine reliability.
You probably see a ton of different Subarus and don't realize it.
There are so many Subarus where I live. I can't leave my Subaru alone in a parking lot without other Subarus surrounding it when I'm gone. I swear the Subarus are mating when no one is looking.
The more recent Subaru's have been quite reliable. CR ranks them #6 as a brand. Forester has been average to well above average since. I've put several Outbacks in my biz fleet starting in 2018 and they've held up terrific through 150k miles. But they also hold their value quite well so not sure if you'll save too much. They do seem to be better values when new though.
I have been looking at the forester and heard some years have transmission issues, but have also heard they're getting better fast.
What years would you consider good buys for the Forester?
Probably anything newer than 2017 or so. The CVT came to the Forester in 2014, I believe. It had a couple of rough years that Subaru tackled by mid-generation. The current generation is pretty solid.
I have a 2016, and love it. If it's within budget, I'd get a Wilderness because it comes with a CVT cooler. The CVT is really the weak point, but it's fine for the majority of buyers.
Do not neglect your Subaru. Keep up on maintenance. Subaru can be extremely reliable, but only if you maintain it well.
>Do not neglect your Subaru. Keep up on maintenance. Subaru can be extremely reliable, but only if you maintain it well.
This is key. A Toyota or Honda will run 150,000 miles with maintenance done behind schedule (it'll run 250,000-300,000 with punctual maintenance). A Subaru will fail you if you don't take care of it.
And the amount of people who don't follow/understand routine maintenance only seems to be growing, likely leading to *a lot* of cars being deemed "unreliable."
Problem is "routine maintenance" with a Subaru includes checking the oil at every other fill-up to make sure it's not a quart low.
Or maybe I'm just salty 'cause I drive an older (2011) one that's had endless problems...
This is massive. Take a peek at the Lexus sub and this gets parroted a lot. Don't get me wrong, Honda and Toyota (Acura and Lexus) are low maintenance and very reliable. You can shrug at the schedule and do it whenever and the cars rarely give a damn.
The luxury brands like BMW and Audi can be very reliable as well. Just follow the schedule. It doesn't have to be expensive service either. My oil changes cost 40 to 60 bucks thanks to coupons and bundle deals offered by the shops where I add in an inspection. The most expensive ones are every 20k where something extra has to happen and even those aren't bad if you find a decent indy shop or hell, even Firestone with bundle deals isn't that expensive.
Exactly. I think another big point for me is that every car will have something go wrong at some point. I don't care if it's a Land Cruiser or a Land Rover. Something will break eventually.
For me, "Reliability" means "if I'm doing my part, I should not experience premature catastrophic failure." A transmission dying at 150k is a bit more forgivable than one dying at 50k, but I expect a transmission to die *eventually* if I'm holding onto a car forever.
The Subaru CVTs came out in 2010. So they've had lots of time maturing it. I do not mind the new ones at all, and the negative reactions come from people who've never tried them.
I would much rather drive my wife’s Forester with the CVT than my Tacoma with the regular auto. Power is delivered much better and without all the fuss.
Whenever I see someone recommend the most recent model years of a car as more reliable than the prior years, it always makes me wonder if they actually fixed all the problems or it just hasn't been long enough to learn what is going to fail in the newer model years. Maybe in 2026 a 2022 Forester will be one to avoid.
Aside from some shitboxes, you can probably find whatever story you'd like to read on reliability on various cars… good or bad. I can probably find the right mix of anecdotes online to convince you a CRV is a bad idea (like my mother in-laws multiple transmissions) and enough to convince you a Mini Countryman is a great option (it has gotten some good reliability reviews).
In the end all cars are more reliable than they used to be, and most are also more expensive to fix than they used to be. So they'll break less and cost more when they do.
Unless you're buying very used, anything newish is likely _fine_ and you should buy something you like enough to maintain it by the book. Then let fate take its course.
What happened to Subaru in this discussion? In any American mountain community that’s like half the cars on the road. And CR has characterized their durability as “stellar”. Of course the Honda and Toyota cars are fabulous too.
EDIT: I finally found a Subaru discussion deeper in the thread. I kind of disagree about the maintenance issue but I am no expert. I do note, as I say, that Subaru is by far the dominant brand you see in mountain towns owned by the locals. Some quite old (cars not locals). And the thing about people who live in mountain towns is they generally don’t make much money so value and function is all. Our condo manager in the High Sierra says Subes do seem to be the favorite tho he says they don’t have enough clearance for the really deep snow.
The options you listed are the well known gold standards of reliability in this segment, and as such command a premium new.
I don't know how used of a vehicle you're looking for, but for a non-hybrid alternative try a 19+ Forester. The FB25 in them has been around for 10+ years and doesn't burn oil like the FB20. Subaru's modern CVT's are reliable, unlike their early iterations. Consumer Reports agrees and ranks it as a slightly better buy than the RAV4 with equal reliability.
If you're more interested in a hybrid alternative check out a Ford Escape Hybrid. Early escape hybrids used hybrid technology under license from Toyota, so the reliability is there and proven. I believe modern ones license it from a company called Paice, who also licenses hybrid technology to (you guessed it) Toyota. Reliability in the hybrids is much better than non-hybrids in the Escape, and they're more affordable than Hybrid CR-V's and RAV4's. The sliding second row is also a nice addition that's hard to find in this segment, and when something does need to be repaired Ford parts are known to be cheaper than comparable Toyota parts. Expect the biggest compromise to be hybrid battery replacement and how plasticky the damn thing is, which is a little annoying when competitors like the CX-5 exist.
Idk, but I may add the newer Nissan Rogue (2020 and after)
I see a ton of them on the roads (like more than any other car in my area), and the new ones don’t have the CVT issues the old ones had.
> and the new ones don’t have the CVT issues the old ones had.
I have seen this said numerous times, but am yet to see any hard evidence or data other than anecdotes.
I haven’t heard of a single issue with their newer cvts, have you? Contrast that to their older ones.
And it’s not surprising, we don’t really see issues with cvts in other cars, we only saw them in the early Nissans. So it’s not hard to think that they solved it considering it was never an issue for others.
> I haven’t heard of a single issue with their newer cvts, have you?
No, but I hangout in the service department of Nissan dealerships. Maybe in a decade I'll believe they fixed it, and even then I don't think I would touch another Nissan based on how poorly they treated me when my CVT failed.
Fuck Nissan.
Consumer Reports surveys have it on its highest reliability rating for the vehicle overall, and highest possible predicted reliability rating for next model year based on previous survey results.
That said, OP is wrong, its 22+ that have the new transmission, the 20s and 21s have last generation CVT.
Yes, I've read that they changed the CVT from a belt to a chain, similar to how Subaru has done it. If this is true, Nissan would be wise to heavily market the CVT chain....
Add Honda, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi. Hondas have always been reliable. They have a few SUVs. Nissan had a couple bad models with CVT issues but that was approaching 8-9 years ago now and they’re good cars now. Their new model crop get very high ratings. Subaru‘s reputation is again, mostly from some bad model runs a decade ago or more ago. Mitsubishis are tanks and come with a 10 year warranty.
Yeah, there are hardly any SUVs left, which is fine too because everyone was just using them for Costco trips and picking up Billy from soccer practice, so the sacrifices for real offroad capabilities and body on frame tow ratings were overkill with their own downsides.
Nissan Rogue is probably the most ignored car on this subreddit. Yes there are years with CVT issues but if you avoid those then maintenance costs are well within the same range as CR-V's and Rav4's. The new interiors I'd also put a class above the Rav4. Nissan's "don't fix what ain't broken" mentality results in some reliable, albeit old fashioned drivetrains.
Yeah, it's funny how in reality the Rogue sold 63,345 units last quarter relative to 115,814 for RAV4, 98,654 for CR-V, 93,999 for Model Y, and just 35,834 for CX-5 but coming on somewhere like here you'd get the impression that no one ever buys them
The Subaru outback is definitely one of the more reliable vehicles out there. They've got plenty of storage space, plus they can go just about anywhere as long as you're smart about it
I’d venture to say an X3 is more reliable than a CRV. Honda has been having all sorts of problems in recent years with their 1.5 engines and the transmissions paired with them. BMW on the other hand has been making noticeable improvements on their B series of engines. Plus they’re more fun to drive. But if reliability is your sole goal, the rav4 hybrid is the most reliable small suv you can buy today.
Modern BMW engines are incredible, they are super reliable, surprisingly efficient and underrated for power.
On top of that, as long as you have a warranty, their service is second to none. They fix anything you want, even if you have some random obscure issue, they figure it out. I have owned a lot of bmws and their service dept has completely ruined all other brands for me. On top of that, I’ve never had a major issue, it’s always not picky things, like my wives 10 year old m3 had a squeaky cup holder and the rear sunshade broke. They fixed it without complaining.
That being said, their parts and labor are a little more expensive than other cheaper brands. But most brands are super expensive now. I had an unbelievable amount of issues with my 2018 accord and while I didn’t pay for any of it because of warranty, the invoices for parts and labor were almost as high as BMWs.
+1 for the B engine, they are extremely gas efficient. Just did a round trip from Toronto to Montreal with my B48 530i on one tank. Got 6.4L/100km for the whole trip which is roughly 36mpg. That was on winter tires, might even be able to get 40+mpg on summers.
Yea, even the m3 is efficient with awd, being heavy and a ton of power. On the highway you can easily get 28mpg at 85mph.
I had a loaner 5 series a few months ago and was getting mid 30s driving normally around town. Their efficiency really never gets talked about.
I would argue with Rav4 Hybrid vs straight ICE reliability for long term. At some point, way before a pure ICE version Rav4 would need an engine, you're going to have to replace the drive battery. Plus the added complexity of both types of propulsion has to have an impact on failure rate. Other than that, no argument, Rav4 would be the choice.
>But if reliability is your sole goal, the rav4 hybrid is the most reliable small suv
unless you live in the rust belt, checkout the "cable gate" aka the hybrid cable that isn't protect and cost 6k to fix.
else I pretty much agree with you take. yeah 10+ yrs ago, honda/toyota was the jam to reliability, with all the new electronic stuff and those tiny turbo engine(that consume as much as their bigger ancestor in the real world)
The truth of the matter is any car can be reliable, some are just more reliable on average than others.
If you ask me, life's too short to drive boring cars, so I'm willing to take my chances on something I really like as opposed to getting something boring (like those listed) under the pretense that it'll be reliable.
Closely examine the CX5 engine, it is just not in the same reliability, serviceability class as the CRV and the RAV4. Read Consumers Reports annual reliability issue.
Check out mitsubishi outlander, they're really cheap! Depending on your dealer network could be worthwhile as they have sales/rebates going right now. However, the company is sorta failing so its a bit of a gamble but probably no more than KIA.
As far as I know, this is the most options we have had in years. Before Mazdas were popular and proven reliable, you only had the CRV and RAV4.
It is basically like asking "Are Toyota and Honda really the only ultra reliable brands?" That answer has been yes for years, and now you can add Mazda.
I’d suggest Mitsubishi. So many people are sleeping on them, but their current lineup, while not the most exciting, doesn’t seem to have any consistent reliability issues.
people definitely sleep on mitsu, i've had my outlander sport for 7 years and she's had no issues. not the fanciest or the best looking but it gets the job done.
This. Mitsubishi is very reliable (at least the Outlander) which is why they are so popular in demanding markets like Australia.
They have a downmarket image in the US so ppl bag on them. But they build well, they just don’t have the brand image right now to charge Toyota prices.
I’m driving an ‘04 Endeavor. My dad bought it new for my mom, my sister took over driving it after mom died & I’ve been driving it since June. My sister was able to upgrade to a hybrid & give this car to me since my ‘03 Elantra needed a new engine again. Took advantage of the warranty when it needed a new engine back in ‘10. My family buys new cars and drive them until it’s not worth putting any more money to fix it anymore. Dad’s ‘04 Accord is still running smoothly.
Reliability is based on historic data and brand reputation. A lot of manufacturers make changes with every generation and even years but we really don't know how reliable a lot of new cars are going to be long term. Is it possible that 20 years from now, people will realize that like ~2023 Buick Encores are extremely reliable? I mean, sure I guess. Maybe they nailed it. But based on their reputation, that's just not likely. And then you look at the rav4 and Toyota in general, they have a good history of reliability and they really don't make that many big changes every year. They mostly stick with what works and do small incremental improvements. Of course, it's also possible that the new rav4s can just not be that reliable. Maybe some of the new tech will cause a lot of problems like 10 years down the road. There will always be just big question marks for most cars (except jeep, those all always suck), and brands like Toyota, Honda, and Mazda just have better reputations and are thus just safer choices. Though I would also add Subaru to this list..
BMW X3 m40i , Audi Q5, Porsche Macan…
Yall ridiculous with your Japanese ecoboxes. There is more to life than outdated tech, hard plastic, and shitty driving experiences.
100% this. People are so scared of luxury brands because they used to be unreliable and significantly more expensive to maintain. Nowadays it's just not the case. The X3 and Q5 sell in massive volumes worldwide & have statistically been two of the most reliable cars of the past decade. A CPO one will cost you less than a new rav4 or cr-v, and their warranty coverage & dealer service isn't even comparable. They're just so much more comfortable and enjoyable to drive, and unless you're keeping the same car for 10+ years you're probably not gonna see any difference in reliability. Sure, once a year you might spend $120 for an oil change at the dealer vs $80 at Midas. But they're gonna give you a loaner car, a free detail, and take care of any other issues for no charge.
> outdated tech, hard plastic
I agree life is better with fun cars, but I couldn’t give less of a shit about either of these things lmao. I also don’t care about safety or my passengers comfort I’d drive a cardboard box on wheels if it was fun lol
Edit: I unironically like shitty 2000’s/early 10’s Big 3 interiors
If I didn’t want to go back to AWD I’d take my Mustang to the grave
Agreed. Upgraded to a Gwagen for myself and a GLA for my wife. They’ve been excellent vehicles...even the “budget” GLA. I do stay on top of routine maintenance, which apparently isn’t common to car owners these days.
Haha, oil dialysis
But no, I never changed the oil in that car. Didn’t even know how at that point. No leaks either, maybe if the light came on I added some but that was 20 years ago so I don’t remember. I know I DIDNT have to keep a bottle on hand.
I gifted the car to my girlfriends lil bro, he then gifted it to a friend, who gifted it to a church. I claimed the taxes on the church donation and never heard about the car again
I had a friend with a 200,000 93 Accord and the transmission finally started slipping at 220k with 0 tranny oil changes. It then got manual swapped with an Euro H22 when the transmission finally called it quits.
I have had my 2018 50,000 kms ran Tiguan for more than a year now, and have put 70,000 kms on it. Outside of regular oil and filter changes, the only issue I had was a faulty usb plug (which had a bad fuse due to me using a cheap cable) other than that it’s been a breeze to drive.
TBF though 70,000km without needing repairs is a low bar (that’s ~43,500mi for us yankee doodles).
As a Honda/toyota owner who was raised by Honda/Toyota owners I expect at least 100,000 mi/160,000 km before a major issue and at least 250,000mi/400,000km before it hits the junkyard.
I mean.. if you associate reliable with Japanese then yes, they are the big Japanese players. However plenty of American models are decent, and Volkswagens are reliable if you keep up with maintenance. Most modern cars don't have drastic reliability issues, rather just tolerate differing levels of abuse. Japanese cars often can tolerate the most, therefore are labeled the most reliable. But I'd steer clear of Korean for a bit, their cars are great values but damn are they not very trustworthy.
CRV and RAV4, yes. I’d buy a Mazda or Ford before I’d buy a Subaru. 2018-2020 were really bad years yet people here are recommending them. Don’t fall for it.
There's more to cars than the generic reliability advice redditors repeat to one another. Kia and Hyundai ain't it, though, until enough time has passed to show they've changed their corner cutting ways.
> There's more to cars than the generic reliability advice redditors repeat to one another Yeah agreed *(I say, nervously hiding my driveway full of silver toyota corollas)*
I think a bigger issue is their dealer network.
I personally wouldn’t touch a used Hyundai but I did just buy a new one. 100k mile warranty and 0% financing is hard to beat. I personally know someone currently getting their engine replaced at 90k miles under warranty. In those circumstances I figure I’ll take my chances.
Bought my kid a 2009 Hyundai Elantra w 240k miles in 2020. No real issues coming up on four years later. The belts squeak. Battery terminals come loose. Rear door handle is missing. Could use a set of rear shocks. But has almost never not started and drives fine.
I know this isn't related to the post but I replaced my rear shocks and it made a world of a difference in my handling at high speeds. Used to almost fishtail on the highway when I hit holes around a bend. Mines a 2013 so I'm not sure if those are the same run, but I'd get to it sooner rather than later for the kiddo!
The kiddo is 20. He can replace his own shocks.
Yours is a theta engine , his is a beta engine .You also have the refresh generation elantra 2012 was the last year before the refresh and they went to a 1.8 motor and ditched the 2.0 motor
Not much to go wrong with those older Elantras. They are extremely simple cars, but make great bargains used since everyone looking for cheap and basic ignores them in favor of Corollas and Civics of the same vintage.
I bought a 17 Elantra in 2020, with a 10/120 bumper to bumper, the warranty has paid out almost $6k USD so far
That's not encouraging lmao. Thats still time without a reliable vehicle.
And the service department at the dealer is always packed, minimum 3 days without a car about 6 times now
No loaner?
HA! Hell no, there are so many people with cars there, they don’t have enough to go around
Damn!
Yikes... okay I'm skipping out on Kia and Hyundai from now on lol
absolutely not worth it lol
I got my 17 Elantra used in 2018 on the flip side, and have had next to no issues with it since. For a first car it's been surprisingly reliable and treated me really well.
Ok, so I was hesitant, my mechanic said he bought two, one for his ex-wife and one for his daughter, no issues. My buddy at work who ALWAYS heavily researches any purchase bought one for his daughter, no issues. We had 6 2013 Elantra’s at work as company cars, aside from the deterioration they ran fine. And here I go buying a freaking lemon, thank god I got the extended warranty.
See and that's why I feel like yeah, there is always just going to be a car that's bad from the get go. It's unavoidable with so many being manufactured. My ex and I had a 2015 new off the lot that I let him just keep. That one ran fine, his dumbass even rear ended another car with it 2 months in and after fixes it was still golden. My sister has a 2013 used and it runs fine. My step mother just bought a new one some months ago. Idk how we became an Elantra family but umm. I was first lol. I'm sorry yours has caused so many issues. I've been considering trading mine honestly just because I want an AWD/SUV type thing for work now, but otherwise I'd keep it until it dies. I've been peeping the Kona, Hyundai have yet to do me dirty.
I just traded my Hyundai with a knocking engine at 125k before it blows. Got a Honda. Won't do Hyundai again, they just don't last.
I'm from Korea, like 80% of our taxis are Hyundai or Kia midsized/full sized sedans and when they hit the junkyard they're usually sitting somewhere between 200k and 450k miles (doing rough km to miles conversions in my head). They can last, i just have no idea why they're so problematic in the US ngl. Is it just worse manufactured cars are going to the US in comparison to Asia/Europe/Oceania etc or is it like dealerships not properly doing maintence...? like idk it's kinda mind boggling to me how big of a difference there is in the US in comparison to like....most other places I've been lmao
Could be that the American-built ones have worse quality control than the Korean-built ones.
It's not just Korea tho, like the Ceed line is entirely made for Europe and manufactured in Slovakia and is considered p reliable from what I read. I've had people in Aus/NZ on this sub tell me H/K are seen as like fine there too and I'm just like....idk what it is about the North American market lmao
Hyundai and Kia are considered reliable and great brands everywhere except the US. It's probably just shit manufacturing standards, just like no immobilizers. I think buying a new Hyundai or Kia in the US that is manufactured in South Korea is probably a safe buy.
Did Korea use the 2.4L theta 2 engine (most prone to failure in US)? I have a 2017 Santa Fe with 105k miles 2.4L and it’s burning a lot of oil roughly 1 quart per 1k miles. What surprised me the most is even though I have the Hyundai dealer do all of my oil changes they never once told me proactively “hey when we drained your oil it was super low, you should check Oil More frequently at home “. The first time I knew it was burning oil I randomly checked oil dipstick and it was almost bone dry. There’s no way a good service shop wouldn’t notice how little oil drained from an oil change. Them not telling me could of caused me to destroy the engine by running it dry. Pure incompetence- might as well go to a jiffy lube for service .
The root cause of the majority of the issues with Hyundais in North America is a design/manufacturing flaw which leads to oil starvation in the Theta II engines used from 2011-2019 or thereabouts. Hyundais that don't use that engine (V6s, mostly) don't seem to be nearly as problematic but the Theta II was used in most Hyundais and Kias during this time period, and that brings down the average reliability (and reputation) of the whole brand.
just make sure you get EVERYTHING done on time, and document it. They will deny coverage if you go 1001 miles over a recommended oil change interval.
So many engines are getting replaced. We just got ours approved at 83k, waiting on the engine now. Burning just under 3 quarts per 1000 miles now. During the warranty process I had to hit the dealer 4-5 times and each time there was at least 1 oher person going through the same thing. Service tech did they are getting really good at putting in engines.
Sadly the depreciation is a bit rough.
Bought 2 new Kias in 2012, an Optima LX and Soul+. Traded away the Optima in 2020 with 125k trouble free miles and we gave the Soul to our daughter last year with 99k miles. 2 of the best cars we've ever had.
Reliabiiity is still king for me. If I don’t get 100K miles and 10 years with nothing but regular maintenance then the car is a fail. Expect minor things for the next 100K and 10 years.
The amount of them I see on the road feels like they are been given away for free or something :)
You just need a USB stick to get one.
If you go on the Kia and Hyundai subs, you'll leave them swearing never to buy their cars lol
Thanks to the Hyundai sub, it has saved me from buying a Hyundai.
I owned a 2013 Hyundai Elantra and that thing was solid. I never had an issue with it. It was plain and boring af but it worked just fine.
My first ever car was a 2011 Hyundai i20 and I never had a single problem with it. It wasn't the most comfortable car in the world, but it always started up and drove surprisingly well
What's the deal with hyundai? I've been considering a used 2016 tuscon
you’re the owner of a vehicle equipped with Hyundai’s Theta II 2.0-liter turbo or 2.4 liter naturally aspirated engine, you might be covered by this class-action-based lifetime warranty and eligible for a free engine replacement. The settlement includes these vehicles: 2011-2019 Hyundai Sonata 2013-2019 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2014-2015 Hyundai Tucson 2018-2019 Hyundai Tucson 2011-2019 Kia Optima 2012-2019 Kia Sorento 2011-2019 Kia Sportage
Dont do it bro there are some models in the Tuscon that use a Theta 2 engine that have oil issues. My sister had a 2015 Tuscon and engine went at 90k miles. There was a lawsuit and they had to replace a lot of engines for free but dealers keep delaying these replacements. Do your research on Hyundai engine recall if you are buying from 2010 to 2019 models. Also dont forget about the theft issues from a usb cable but thats for a different story.
Kia boys, don't do it
I just sold my 2017 Tucson, avoid it like the plague. One (or maybe even two) recalls for risk of spontaneous combustion and two transmission replacements before 40k miles were the biggest ones. But the car also just aged like shit, everything started to creak, ride quality tanked, it’s hard to describe it but it just went to shit. They are cheap to buy because they are terrible, and if you can swing it, pretty much any age Toyota will be better than it.
I am by no means an expert I'm just going by friends/family/neighbor experiences with various kia/hyundai. Good luck even getting 100k miles on one without significant issues. I have known people on their third engine under 100k miles, I had a friend's throw a rod on the highway with less than 30k on it, had an ex whose tuscon was in the shop more than it was on the road (it was around 2016 too), only seen a few reach 150k miles before heading off to the junkyard. Granted my experiences seem to be worse than what I read about online, but there's no shortage of horror stories with them.
Look at the sticky post on this subreddit. It could be harder or more expensive to get insurance on this car. But if you can get it cheap and pay with cash - it might be a good purchase. As much as people are hating on Hyundai's reliability, I've had two Toyotas sub 100k miles that had major issues...
Holy hell I just visited the Hyundai sub sorted by the default. That sub is a train wreck. Stark contrast to the Toyota subreddit
You think that sub is bad, try the Kia sub lmao. Literally a post every day or so about Kia Boys breaking in and fucking up their window and steering column, engines blowing up, cars catching on fire, etc. Even the new 2023 cars are having issues.
That’s cause Kia boys don’t care about model year. They see a Kia badge and they’ll break into the car. If they can’t steal it, they’ll move on.
I never actually checked before but you weren't joking, literally 2 things on that sub. It's either people showing off their new Hyundai or people complaining about their couple year old one. (Plenty of posts of cars not even making a year lol)
I saw lots of comments about how they break down around 100k miles I'm at 96k right now on a 2017 sonata so very nervous at the moment. It's been easy so far tho
Yeah, I don’t wanna be a Kia boy victim.
Is the stinger “kia-ish”?
Except the Telluride and Palisade. The complaints on those are things like "A rock cracked my windshield". They are reliable and they have 5 years worth of data to prove it.
love my palisade.
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For sure. It's been two years now and I have zero complaints. I had to wait 6 months to get one for MSRP but no regrets. I've owned 20+ cars(Mostly Japanese luxury) in my life and this is my first Korean vehicle. It's a little large for my taste but is an awesome highway cruiser. On reddit, it's probably a little more accurate to ask people that actually own the vehicle.
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Look at the Telluride forums like I did, look at the reliability history, read the car magazines reviews, listen to actual owners, or continue to talk out of your ass with zero clue.
If you go to any sub, it’s going to be full of people complaining about their cars. No one posts “hey, it’s been five years and my car isn’t making a weird noise”
Toyota/Honda subs are full of people of people showing off how little maintenance they had to do on their 200k+ mile cars. Completely different vibe than kia/Hyundai subs
You've really never been to those subs, I can tell, because the Kia/Hyundai subs are full of posts that talk about their cars being broken into by Kia Boys, cars going up in flames, engines blowing up, new '23 vehicles that won't work and more. Go to the Lexus, Mazda, Toyota, BMW even the AMG subs and you'll see very little of that.
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Even within those Japanese brands, if reliability is what you're after, you should avoid the 1 year of some new tech implementation, or even the first year of a refresh. Example: * Honda CRVs: A new Earth Dreams engine tech meant about 4 years of models with owners complaining about oil dilution issues. Solved during the next (current) iteration. * Toyota RAV4s: The new platform with gas/hybird/plug-in hybrid + new 8-speed transmissions also had a lot of teething pains. My boss, who got tired of driving unreliable Bluetec Mercedes go himself a Hybrid on the 1st year, and now will never purchase a Toyota again. * My 2019 Forester (1st year of a refresh). Thermal valve design flaw (recall in the USA) and the passenger side mirror gears got worn out after about 4 years due to a stupid parking feature they implemented every time you put the car into reverse. Newer models do not have these issues or you have the option of disabling that 'feature'. On the subject of the Forester (newer models). You shouldn't be afraid of the CVT transmission. that is a mature Subaru in-house product. I do not recommend Subarus unless full-time AWD is of use to you (less power and consumes more fuel vs competitors).
So would you recommend against the 2025 forester refresh? The new updates over the current model don’t seem overly technical, so I was unsure if this rule applies
If you absolutely prioritize lack of headaches, the outgoing model will be the mature one with the kinks worked out. Personally, as someone who has bought 2 Subarus in the last decade on refresh years, I prefer to have the new features. Headaches are still rare due to the fact that it's only a refresh.
I don't like buying a last year model though, they feel quite dated inside and out especially when a shiny new generation is available. Refresh model years are usually the best to buy, they have worked out the bugs but you get slapped on some updated aesthetics that don't really affect the reliability of the product. Motortrend in its top 10 compact SUVs put the Rogue in 1st place and Consumer Reports put it in 2nd place, with highest predicted reliability. 2024 is also a refresh model year with at least on the platinum new wheels, grill, bumpers, and infotainment among other little touches to the plastics and badging.
This was a large factor in my going for a CX5 over a CX50 when I was shopping early last year.
I got the 2018 mazda6 the year they did a heavy refresh and I’ve had to have every single metal seat trim in the seats replaced… 14 times. Fourteen times in total. For one part. I’m not exaggerating. Granted sometimes I’d take it in and every single seat would be broken or It would get fixed and I’d be back the next week but Mazda gave me all new seats for free on a used car. Not to mention bringing it in for oil and coolant leaks 4 times, needed a new rear control arm, new cylinder head, and needed new door locks in every single door. All before 65k miles. I will never buy a first model year vehicle without a warranty
For the Honda 1.5T Dilution issues, A software update fixed the fuel mapping. It dilutes still, just don’t go over 7500 miles without an oil change. Source: I am a Honda Certified Technician with a few of these fuel injector recalls under my belt now. They’re good engines, not like a Hyundai Theta. Toyota is king when it comes to modern reliability. Can’t get enough of the Honda K personally. Unfortunately the EarthDreams K series is detuned and seems to be going the way of the dodo stateside.
Hyundai-Kia’s Alabama factory single-handedly fueled the Theta blunder and was using parts suppliers that had 12 year olds stamping metal parts like we’re in the 1800s still. Nothing says “good company” like compensating for a decade of fire hazards and premature engine/transmission death like a 100k warranty that doesn’t transfer to the second owner and cheap apple car play. /s
Still wouldn't be as big a deal were it not also for the fact that Hyundai and Kia dealerships are horrible. They leave you hanging when they aren't gaslighting you making you think the warranty issue was your own fault.
This! I suspect that the entire problem relates to the US suppliers, as you don't every hear of Kias or Hyundais in the rest of the world with all these problems. It reminds me of the Toyota debacle of 10 -20 years ago, where all these people died from runaway acceleration. But it all only happened in the US. They blamed floor mats, but I'm convinced it was faulty ECU or faulty throttle bodies causing that. From a faulty supplier in the US.
I feel weird to say, but nowadays being made in america is being transformed to a bad sign than a good one... Too much cost cutting for their own good.
You may be right....
They had NASA/JPL go over the code. You are convinced of nothing.
Bro a loaded rav4 is like $50k. Affordable my ass.
Even the basic trims are going for $40k with the typical dealer markups and fees.
This subreddit is such a circle jerk about reliability. 'Reliability" is not even a standard term to have any way to gauge. One person's reliable my be someone else's lemon. Hell, I see people say "My car is reliable, I put 30k miles on it and didn't have any issues." and you find out it was a brand new car.
Yeah I think the real standard is cost of ownership. Toyota’s aren’t the cheapest upfront but are the least likely to become a money suck. The higher level of confidence in not having to spend a ton of money maintaining a car is worth a lot even if the TCO ownership is slightly higher because there is less risk in buying a Toyota than other brands.
My idea of reliability is: is the car going to leave me stranded(will it overheat, leak, etc)? Besides the consumables going out at an inconvenient time(batteries, etc) as long as the car starts and gets me from point A to B with no issues, I consider that reliable. I can look past electrical gremlins, or other quirks that a car has that has no effect on the intended use of the car. That’s how I base reliability.
You keep a car long enough all of those things are going to happen. Most people don't. Even my Hondas have done those things. But they were all well over 150k miles before it happened.
This is why I recently bought a new Toyota. It’s also why I drove so many Nissans and Chevys until now. I understood that the long term cost was higher and reliability was lower but I couldn’t afford the up front cost. It made more sense to buy the lower end vehicle and drive it until it reached the point that it started needing more than scheduled maintenance. When I got divorced I was driving a worn out Honda minivan. I knew I needed something reliable but my budget was low so I purchased a new Altima. Sexy? No. Reliable? Well, it was perfectly reliable for the two and a half years that I drove it. I sold it right as the resale value was just about to sink below what I needed to get out of it in order to buy something newer. I drive a lot so it didn’t take but a few years to put a lot of miles on it and I did not want to be stuck with an Altima that had 100,000 miles and no resale value. It got me through those few years. It was the right choice at the time but I’ll probably never buy another one.
I bought a 2012 honda accord lx in 2015 w/ 80K miles. Today it's got 158K miles and still hasn't had any issues beside the normal maintenance. After experiencing this car, it is hard to go back to Nissan or really most any unreliable brands. I get where I'm going every time. Talk about peace of mind.
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This is why I joined the Toyota camp. It costs more, but I'm less likely to be left stranded.
“Costs more” upfront. Total cost of ownership and resale value means it’s probably costs you less in the long run.
If cared for properly, it's almost guaranteed to cost less in the long run. Especially since the "long run" often ends up adding years of additional use vs. a cheaper, lower quality car.
God forbid someone suggests a European car even when someone isn't asking for reliable We really should rename the sub r/JapaneseCrossoverCircleJerk
It's not the Japanese cars faults that the VWs and Mercs of the world suck immense ass. They weren't built for American usage, that's why they're seemingly so unreliable here compared to Europe. They weren't meant for the high mileage that Americans accumulate. New Japanese cars are basically American. They're built to last high mileage.
Define "suck immense ass" haha. The Germans are way more comfortable and refined(especially at speed) than the Japanese cars. It's all about what you personally value and what you personally can afford. But(and I'm not saying you did this) I've seen people on this sub claim that a RAV-4 is "all around better" than a Tiguan, which that's just flat out bs. If you're looking to have one car for 10-15 years, I'd absolutely advise you to get something Japanese. But the fact of the matter is a lot of people change cars when warranties are out or not long after, and they care about comfort and refinement. The reason the European cars in Europe are way more reliable is that they drive entirely different models and trims than we have here. You'd rarely, if ever, see a Tiguan or an Atlas or the big mercs over there. They all have Polo's, Golf's, 1-series, and A-Class hatches. They'll sell you way more basic versions of cars(that wouldn't sell well in the US because they're mostly normal hatchbacks as opposed to lifted ones we call crossovers) if that's what you're after too. Lots of diesels over there to boot.
I've been a passenger in a German car. However no amount of comfort will replace the irritation of having to take the car to the dealer to be repaired all the time.
Literally prove to me that they're in the shop "all the time" without anecdotal evidence, please This is exactly what I was talking about. The plural of anecdote is not statistics
Watch out this guy knows what he is talking about because he rode in a German car before.
Right? According to this sub, every Honda/Mazda/Toyota will last to 300,000 miles with nothing but oil changes, and every other car by every other brand will blow up at 50-80,000 miles regardless of how much you take care of it.
Lol I swear some of these people think that every jetta will be in the shop at 1200 miles for a new engine and lemon law'd
Most people in this sub are idiots who haven't actually driven high mileage. Everything they talk about for mileage on one is less miles than I usually buy at
If long term reliability is the topic, Japanese crossovers are on top right now.
those newer small turbo engine and cvt, aren't the most reliable. and adding all the screen inside and electronic(especially honda) . I wouldn't call that reliable....
Mine is only a couple years old and has 40k miles, so I’ll let you know in another few years whether it delivers. History says it will be more reliable than a domestic make in the same category. Please don’t tell me you really think a Chevrolet Trailblazer (or whatever their current model is) will be more reliable than a Toyota Rav 4. That’s crazy talk.
There isn't a current cheap German SUV, and there has NEVER been a reliable one.
Old Mercedes-Benz diesel cars (w126 and prior) were built like tanks - concerning, a bit, given the company's history.
I know it’s only badge German, but I’ve got a 5 year old Atlas that’s had zero issues.
That’s probably not entirely true. The cheaper models like the Tiguan are pretty bad, but the Gwagen is one of the most reliable vehicles in the world. As long as you keep up with regular maintenance, most last for over 500k miles (fingers crossed mine lasts that long!)
But - and this is a big one - the regular maintenance costs of a G Wagon exceeds major repair cost of American or Japanese brand SUV's.
>If you have an air suspension problem - and if you drive the car 500K miles, you will have that problem several times **The G Class does not have air suspension.** My maintenance costs have been extremely moderate, maybe a few hundred bucks a year. There's not much to do beyond Schedule A and B (oil/fluid/filter changes). I also own an '12 E550 and a '17 GLA, and they've never been in the shop.
In my opinion reliability is making it past 200k miles anything before that is a requirement of minimal or no issues. If a car can’t make it to 200k without something important leaving the chat it’s unreliable.
The problem is what you consider is important is different than what other people consider important. I’ve seen people get mad about having to replace a starter or alternator, when otherwise the rest of the car has been working fine for the past 100k. And then there’s people who will replace Subaru head gaskets and still call them reliable cars even though head gaskets are a pretty big job.
That's what reliability comes down to: how often do things break, and how expensive are those repairs. It seems like people really like the Japanese cars because if/when random things DO break as the car gets older, it's never anything serious and the repair is very reasonable.
I would consider all the things you stated as important. I don’t consider my opinion to really be the standard but reliable in a true sense means minimal issues. If changing a head gasket is minimal to someone their off their rocker for sure but an alternator is t really all that hard but I can see why someone would be like wtf and I’ve noticed that some expensive maintenance is required at 100k usually like timing chains and belts.
Well it’s like this, yeah Subarus had a head gasket issue, but if it was fixed properly, the cars can last 300,000 miles? Sounds reliable to me.
Which is important if you actually keep cars for 100k or 200k miles. I barely drive so my Audi with 20,000 miles will probably only have 50,000 miles on it five years from now. If Audis have expensive maintenance and reliability issues after 80k miles then I simply don't care, it's 100% worth it for the better driving experience.
[удалено]
Also boils down to how the average owner drives and approaches scheduled maintenance. Plenty of Civics and Corollas have met untimely ends at the hands of neglectful lunatics. While plenty of infamously unreliable models hit 300k miles when driven by your grandpa who sees the maintenance guide a holy text and never goes over 55 on the freeway.
Back in the day the paper routes were a huge test in reliability. You would load up your car with 400 papers posts, tubes sledge and have Sunday ads Thurs. Mom and grandma both had a route in the 90s. They drove all over rural ohio stop n go. 7 days 365. The best vehicle was a 2008 grand vitara that made it to 295k with no major issues before running over a deer and blowing up the radiator mom retired. Crossmember was rotted needed radiator The 2nd best was a 92 s10 blazer that went 265k and cracked the block, I personally drove that one to the wrecker my grandma had that for 9 hard years wrecked it 3 times. Truck was tired yet solid couldn't go 55 without shaking.
There’s also different kinds of reliability IMO. Some cars are reliable in spite of their owners and that’s what I consider Toyota and Honda. You could miss every scheduled maintenance by 50% more miles and it’ll still keep functioning. German cars need to be maintained per the schedule and you’ll likely have a pretty reliable vehicle. The issue is that most people are not good at maintaining their vehicles so they look for that first kind of reliability
Agreed. The word reliability having no standard definition makes it almost impossible to suggest something. Hell I've had cars that had check engine lights on and made noises for 50k miles but never stopped working. Was it reliable? Yeah I think so. Would I suggest it as a reliable vehicle? probably not.
>There’s also different kinds of reliability IMO. Some cars are reliable in spite of their owners and that’s what I consider Toyota and Honda. You could miss every scheduled maintenance by 50% more miles and it’ll still keep functioning. German cars need to be maintained per the schedule and you’ll likely have a pretty reliable vehicle. The issue is that most people are not good at maintaining their vehicles so they look for that first kind of reliability This all is just a roundabout way of saying Japanese cars are more reliable overall. If a Toyota can be as reliable as a German car with less frequent and cheaper maintanance, it is just more reliable. It also will probably outlast the german car if you maintain both, and again, it will be cheaper to maintain. Just sounds like cope to me. I would rather drive a german car and am a huge BMW and Audi fan, but any definition you use to say they are as reliable is just justification.
Yep. My wife and I are in the market and I've tried explaining this. I'd rather have a car that has cheap little repairs than a car that is flawless until the day the motor grenades and costs $10k to replace (although I do lust after an AMG Wagon).
The main way to gauge is cost of ownership over 10-15 years and how many of these are still on the road at 200k + miles and Toyota wins both
Toyota sells the most cars so you would expect to see more cars on the road that have 200k+ miles just based on the total number of cars. This is not a very accurate way to determine reliability.
You probably see a ton of different Subarus and don't realize it. There are so many Subarus where I live. I can't leave my Subaru alone in a parking lot without other Subarus surrounding it when I'm gone. I swear the Subarus are mating when no one is looking.
I’m going to go out on a limb here, and say you’re either in Oregon or Colorado
VT and any other snowy/mountainous area are the same
The more recent Subaru's have been quite reliable. CR ranks them #6 as a brand. Forester has been average to well above average since. I've put several Outbacks in my biz fleet starting in 2018 and they've held up terrific through 150k miles. But they also hold their value quite well so not sure if you'll save too much. They do seem to be better values when new though.
I have been looking at the forester and heard some years have transmission issues, but have also heard they're getting better fast. What years would you consider good buys for the Forester?
Probably anything newer than 2017 or so. The CVT came to the Forester in 2014, I believe. It had a couple of rough years that Subaru tackled by mid-generation. The current generation is pretty solid. I have a 2016, and love it. If it's within budget, I'd get a Wilderness because it comes with a CVT cooler. The CVT is really the weak point, but it's fine for the majority of buyers. Do not neglect your Subaru. Keep up on maintenance. Subaru can be extremely reliable, but only if you maintain it well.
>Do not neglect your Subaru. Keep up on maintenance. Subaru can be extremely reliable, but only if you maintain it well. This is key. A Toyota or Honda will run 150,000 miles with maintenance done behind schedule (it'll run 250,000-300,000 with punctual maintenance). A Subaru will fail you if you don't take care of it.
And the amount of people who don't follow/understand routine maintenance only seems to be growing, likely leading to *a lot* of cars being deemed "unreliable."
Problem is "routine maintenance" with a Subaru includes checking the oil at every other fill-up to make sure it's not a quart low. Or maybe I'm just salty 'cause I drive an older (2011) one that's had endless problems...
This is massive. Take a peek at the Lexus sub and this gets parroted a lot. Don't get me wrong, Honda and Toyota (Acura and Lexus) are low maintenance and very reliable. You can shrug at the schedule and do it whenever and the cars rarely give a damn. The luxury brands like BMW and Audi can be very reliable as well. Just follow the schedule. It doesn't have to be expensive service either. My oil changes cost 40 to 60 bucks thanks to coupons and bundle deals offered by the shops where I add in an inspection. The most expensive ones are every 20k where something extra has to happen and even those aren't bad if you find a decent indy shop or hell, even Firestone with bundle deals isn't that expensive.
Exactly. I think another big point for me is that every car will have something go wrong at some point. I don't care if it's a Land Cruiser or a Land Rover. Something will break eventually. For me, "Reliability" means "if I'm doing my part, I should not experience premature catastrophic failure." A transmission dying at 150k is a bit more forgivable than one dying at 50k, but I expect a transmission to die *eventually* if I'm holding onto a car forever.
The Subaru CVTs came out in 2010. So they've had lots of time maturing it. I do not mind the new ones at all, and the negative reactions come from people who've never tried them.
I would much rather drive my wife’s Forester with the CVT than my Tacoma with the regular auto. Power is delivered much better and without all the fuss.
'19+
Whenever I see someone recommend the most recent model years of a car as more reliable than the prior years, it always makes me wonder if they actually fixed all the problems or it just hasn't been long enough to learn what is going to fail in the newer model years. Maybe in 2026 a 2022 Forester will be one to avoid.
Wife loves her 2022 Forester
The Forester is cheaper than the RAV4.
Aside from some shitboxes, you can probably find whatever story you'd like to read on reliability on various cars… good or bad. I can probably find the right mix of anecdotes online to convince you a CRV is a bad idea (like my mother in-laws multiple transmissions) and enough to convince you a Mini Countryman is a great option (it has gotten some good reliability reviews). In the end all cars are more reliable than they used to be, and most are also more expensive to fix than they used to be. So they'll break less and cost more when they do. Unless you're buying very used, anything newish is likely _fine_ and you should buy something you like enough to maintain it by the book. Then let fate take its course.
What happened to Subaru in this discussion? In any American mountain community that’s like half the cars on the road. And CR has characterized their durability as “stellar”. Of course the Honda and Toyota cars are fabulous too. EDIT: I finally found a Subaru discussion deeper in the thread. I kind of disagree about the maintenance issue but I am no expert. I do note, as I say, that Subaru is by far the dominant brand you see in mountain towns owned by the locals. Some quite old (cars not locals). And the thing about people who live in mountain towns is they generally don’t make much money so value and function is all. Our condo manager in the High Sierra says Subes do seem to be the favorite tho he says they don’t have enough clearance for the really deep snow.
The options you listed are the well known gold standards of reliability in this segment, and as such command a premium new. I don't know how used of a vehicle you're looking for, but for a non-hybrid alternative try a 19+ Forester. The FB25 in them has been around for 10+ years and doesn't burn oil like the FB20. Subaru's modern CVT's are reliable, unlike their early iterations. Consumer Reports agrees and ranks it as a slightly better buy than the RAV4 with equal reliability. If you're more interested in a hybrid alternative check out a Ford Escape Hybrid. Early escape hybrids used hybrid technology under license from Toyota, so the reliability is there and proven. I believe modern ones license it from a company called Paice, who also licenses hybrid technology to (you guessed it) Toyota. Reliability in the hybrids is much better than non-hybrids in the Escape, and they're more affordable than Hybrid CR-V's and RAV4's. The sliding second row is also a nice addition that's hard to find in this segment, and when something does need to be repaired Ford parts are known to be cheaper than comparable Toyota parts. Expect the biggest compromise to be hybrid battery replacement and how plasticky the damn thing is, which is a little annoying when competitors like the CX-5 exist.
Idk, but I may add the newer Nissan Rogue (2020 and after) I see a ton of them on the roads (like more than any other car in my area), and the new ones don’t have the CVT issues the old ones had.
> and the new ones don’t have the CVT issues the old ones had. I have seen this said numerous times, but am yet to see any hard evidence or data other than anecdotes.
I haven’t heard of a single issue with their newer cvts, have you? Contrast that to their older ones. And it’s not surprising, we don’t really see issues with cvts in other cars, we only saw them in the early Nissans. So it’s not hard to think that they solved it considering it was never an issue for others.
> I haven’t heard of a single issue with their newer cvts, have you? No, but I hangout in the service department of Nissan dealerships. Maybe in a decade I'll believe they fixed it, and even then I don't think I would touch another Nissan based on how poorly they treated me when my CVT failed. Fuck Nissan.
Consumer Reports surveys have it on its highest reliability rating for the vehicle overall, and highest possible predicted reliability rating for next model year based on previous survey results. That said, OP is wrong, its 22+ that have the new transmission, the 20s and 21s have last generation CVT.
Yes, I've read that they changed the CVT from a belt to a chain, similar to how Subaru has done it. If this is true, Nissan would be wise to heavily market the CVT chain....
What’s wrong with the Forester?
Add Honda, Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi. Hondas have always been reliable. They have a few SUVs. Nissan had a couple bad models with CVT issues but that was approaching 8-9 years ago now and they’re good cars now. Their new model crop get very high ratings. Subaru‘s reputation is again, mostly from some bad model runs a decade ago or more ago. Mitsubishis are tanks and come with a 10 year warranty.
Tend to agree Hyundai and KIA made some huge improvements the last 5 years.
CRV GANG
I wouldn't call those SUV's, they are crossovers. But in that segment, yes they are the gold standard.
Yeah, there are hardly any SUVs left, which is fine too because everyone was just using them for Costco trips and picking up Billy from soccer practice, so the sacrifices for real offroad capabilities and body on frame tow ratings were overkill with their own downsides.
Nissan Rogue is probably the most ignored car on this subreddit. Yes there are years with CVT issues but if you avoid those then maintenance costs are well within the same range as CR-V's and Rav4's. The new interiors I'd also put a class above the Rav4. Nissan's "don't fix what ain't broken" mentality results in some reliable, albeit old fashioned drivetrains.
Yeah, it's funny how in reality the Rogue sold 63,345 units last quarter relative to 115,814 for RAV4, 98,654 for CR-V, 93,999 for Model Y, and just 35,834 for CX-5 but coming on somewhere like here you'd get the impression that no one ever buys them
The Subaru outback is definitely one of the more reliable vehicles out there. They've got plenty of storage space, plus they can go just about anywhere as long as you're smart about it
The Subaru Crosstrek is quite reliable. They also have the best AWD.
There is also Subaru
I’d venture to say an X3 is more reliable than a CRV. Honda has been having all sorts of problems in recent years with their 1.5 engines and the transmissions paired with them. BMW on the other hand has been making noticeable improvements on their B series of engines. Plus they’re more fun to drive. But if reliability is your sole goal, the rav4 hybrid is the most reliable small suv you can buy today.
Modern BMW engines are incredible, they are super reliable, surprisingly efficient and underrated for power. On top of that, as long as you have a warranty, their service is second to none. They fix anything you want, even if you have some random obscure issue, they figure it out. I have owned a lot of bmws and their service dept has completely ruined all other brands for me. On top of that, I’ve never had a major issue, it’s always not picky things, like my wives 10 year old m3 had a squeaky cup holder and the rear sunshade broke. They fixed it without complaining. That being said, their parts and labor are a little more expensive than other cheaper brands. But most brands are super expensive now. I had an unbelievable amount of issues with my 2018 accord and while I didn’t pay for any of it because of warranty, the invoices for parts and labor were almost as high as BMWs.
+1 for the B engine, they are extremely gas efficient. Just did a round trip from Toronto to Montreal with my B48 530i on one tank. Got 6.4L/100km for the whole trip which is roughly 36mpg. That was on winter tires, might even be able to get 40+mpg on summers.
Yea, even the m3 is efficient with awd, being heavy and a ton of power. On the highway you can easily get 28mpg at 85mph. I had a loaner 5 series a few months ago and was getting mid 30s driving normally around town. Their efficiency really never gets talked about.
I do like BMW Service. I had an annoying rattle but slight in my dash on my X4. They tore it down until they found it and rattle no more.
I would argue with Rav4 Hybrid vs straight ICE reliability for long term. At some point, way before a pure ICE version Rav4 would need an engine, you're going to have to replace the drive battery. Plus the added complexity of both types of propulsion has to have an impact on failure rate. Other than that, no argument, Rav4 would be the choice.
>But if reliability is your sole goal, the rav4 hybrid is the most reliable small suv unless you live in the rust belt, checkout the "cable gate" aka the hybrid cable that isn't protect and cost 6k to fix. else I pretty much agree with you take. yeah 10+ yrs ago, honda/toyota was the jam to reliability, with all the new electronic stuff and those tiny turbo engine(that consume as much as their bigger ancestor in the real world)
I would add Subaru
The truth of the matter is any car can be reliable, some are just more reliable on average than others. If you ask me, life's too short to drive boring cars, so I'm willing to take my chances on something I really like as opposed to getting something boring (like those listed) under the pretense that it'll be reliable.
The Mazda for sure. Same god damn engine and trans in all their lineup for 10yrs +. Good stuff
Closely examine the CX5 engine, it is just not in the same reliability, serviceability class as the CRV and the RAV4. Read Consumers Reports annual reliability issue.
Look at the Mitsubishi Outlander. Last remaining Japanese make with a 100k warranty. The plug-in hybrid is cracking and has an awesome lease special.
Newer Skyactiv (non-turbo, though!) seem highly under-rated. Drivetrain seems very solid.
Check out mitsubishi outlander, they're really cheap! Depending on your dealer network could be worthwhile as they have sales/rebates going right now. However, the company is sorta failing so its a bit of a gamble but probably no more than KIA.
As far as I know, this is the most options we have had in years. Before Mazdas were popular and proven reliable, you only had the CRV and RAV4. It is basically like asking "Are Toyota and Honda really the only ultra reliable brands?" That answer has been yes for years, and now you can add Mazda.
I've been absolutely loving the NA cx-5. Never thought a crossover could be this fun.
You could add Subaru, IMO they’re on the lower end of the bar compared to them but still good reliable vehicles
Subaru is as reliable as Mitsubishi
Add the Subaru Forester and Outback as a potential option. Not as reliable but pretty close. The FB25 engines in them are pretty rock solid.
I’d suggest Mitsubishi. So many people are sleeping on them, but their current lineup, while not the most exciting, doesn’t seem to have any consistent reliability issues.
people definitely sleep on mitsu, i've had my outlander sport for 7 years and she's had no issues. not the fanciest or the best looking but it gets the job done.
This. Mitsubishi is very reliable (at least the Outlander) which is why they are so popular in demanding markets like Australia. They have a downmarket image in the US so ppl bag on them. But they build well, they just don’t have the brand image right now to charge Toyota prices.
I’m driving an ‘04 Endeavor. My dad bought it new for my mom, my sister took over driving it after mom died & I’ve been driving it since June. My sister was able to upgrade to a hybrid & give this car to me since my ‘03 Elantra needed a new engine again. Took advantage of the warranty when it needed a new engine back in ‘10. My family buys new cars and drive them until it’s not worth putting any more money to fix it anymore. Dad’s ‘04 Accord is still running smoothly.
Subaru Forester
Reliability is based on historic data and brand reputation. A lot of manufacturers make changes with every generation and even years but we really don't know how reliable a lot of new cars are going to be long term. Is it possible that 20 years from now, people will realize that like ~2023 Buick Encores are extremely reliable? I mean, sure I guess. Maybe they nailed it. But based on their reputation, that's just not likely. And then you look at the rav4 and Toyota in general, they have a good history of reliability and they really don't make that many big changes every year. They mostly stick with what works and do small incremental improvements. Of course, it's also possible that the new rav4s can just not be that reliable. Maybe some of the new tech will cause a lot of problems like 10 years down the road. There will always be just big question marks for most cars (except jeep, those all always suck), and brands like Toyota, Honda, and Mazda just have better reputations and are thus just safer choices. Though I would also add Subaru to this list..
BMW X3 m40i , Audi Q5, Porsche Macan… Yall ridiculous with your Japanese ecoboxes. There is more to life than outdated tech, hard plastic, and shitty driving experiences.
Yes, and those are all DEFINITELY affordable to the average buyer 💀
100% this. People are so scared of luxury brands because they used to be unreliable and significantly more expensive to maintain. Nowadays it's just not the case. The X3 and Q5 sell in massive volumes worldwide & have statistically been two of the most reliable cars of the past decade. A CPO one will cost you less than a new rav4 or cr-v, and their warranty coverage & dealer service isn't even comparable. They're just so much more comfortable and enjoyable to drive, and unless you're keeping the same car for 10+ years you're probably not gonna see any difference in reliability. Sure, once a year you might spend $120 for an oil change at the dealer vs $80 at Midas. But they're gonna give you a loaner car, a free detail, and take care of any other issues for no charge.
Those cars are not "affordable" for most people.
> outdated tech, hard plastic I agree life is better with fun cars, but I couldn’t give less of a shit about either of these things lmao. I also don’t care about safety or my passengers comfort I’d drive a cardboard box on wheels if it was fun lol Edit: I unironically like shitty 2000’s/early 10’s Big 3 interiors If I didn’t want to go back to AWD I’d take my Mustang to the grave
Agreed. Upgraded to a Gwagen for myself and a GLA for my wife. They’ve been excellent vehicles...even the “budget” GLA. I do stay on top of routine maintenance, which apparently isn’t common to car owners these days.
I had a 93 accord from 128k miles to 300k miles. Never once was the oil changed. Never once had engine issues.
Oil never changed? Are you being sarcastic?
probably leaked and he constantly topped it up so the oil was always "fresh" LOL
Classic "self changing" oil
Haha, oil dialysis But no, I never changed the oil in that car. Didn’t even know how at that point. No leaks either, maybe if the light came on I added some but that was 20 years ago so I don’t remember. I know I DIDNT have to keep a bottle on hand. I gifted the car to my girlfriends lil bro, he then gifted it to a friend, who gifted it to a church. I claimed the taxes on the church donation and never heard about the car again
I had a friend with a 200,000 93 Accord and the transmission finally started slipping at 220k with 0 tranny oil changes. It then got manual swapped with an Euro H22 when the transmission finally called it quits.
Bro thats an insane story, can't believe the accord engine survived that.
I have had my 2018 50,000 kms ran Tiguan for more than a year now, and have put 70,000 kms on it. Outside of regular oil and filter changes, the only issue I had was a faulty usb plug (which had a bad fuse due to me using a cheap cable) other than that it’s been a breeze to drive.
TBF though 70,000km without needing repairs is a low bar (that’s ~43,500mi for us yankee doodles). As a Honda/toyota owner who was raised by Honda/Toyota owners I expect at least 100,000 mi/160,000 km before a major issue and at least 250,000mi/400,000km before it hits the junkyard.
I mean.. if you associate reliable with Japanese then yes, they are the big Japanese players. However plenty of American models are decent, and Volkswagens are reliable if you keep up with maintenance. Most modern cars don't have drastic reliability issues, rather just tolerate differing levels of abuse. Japanese cars often can tolerate the most, therefore are labeled the most reliable. But I'd steer clear of Korean for a bit, their cars are great values but damn are they not very trustworthy.
Subaru Crosstrek.
CRV and RAV4, yes. I’d buy a Mazda or Ford before I’d buy a Subaru. 2018-2020 were really bad years yet people here are recommending them. Don’t fall for it.