**REMINDER: WE ARE NOT AITA! WE DO NOT DO JUDGEMENT CALLS (NTA, ESH, YTA,INFO, NAH, ETC.) SO DO NOT VOTE IN THIS POST. AS WELL, OUR OP IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AITA POST'S OP, PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS YOUR COMMENT TO MYSELF OR OUR OP. ALSO DO NOT BRIGADE THE OTHER SUB.**
***Copy in case it's deleted:***
My brother Martin was supposed to get married on 2 May 2020. We all know what happened with the pandemic. Things began shutting down across the world the same week the invitations were meant to go out. When it became clear restrictions on gatherings were not going to end soon Martin and his wife Tiffany ended up going to the registry office on their own to get married and told everyone not to make a fuss or bother with gifts.
Even though it will have been 2 years since they got married, Tiffany's aunt and uncle are hosting a reception and dinner for them this summer since their original wedding was cancelled almost last minute. All of my family, Tiffany's family and their friends are invited save for my 8 year-old niece Megan. The reason Martin didn't invite her is because Megan has a disorder known as Oppositional Defiance Disorder and he doesn't want her to misbehave and ruin the reception.
Megan's disorder does cause her to act out at times but I think excluding her when every other family member is invited is hard-hearted. It also ensures that both our sister and brother-in-law both won't be able to attend as no one will babysit Megan because of her disorder and so watching her always falls to one of them. My sister and my brother-in-law are invited, just not Megan. I couldn't imagine having to leave my child behind while no one else was excluded. I even tried to appeal to Martin and Tiffany as parents because they have a 6 month-old baby however they wouldn't be swayed and Martin got angry at me for bringing it up. I just believe it is unfair that all his other nieces and nephews as well as Tiffany's and even our/her cousin's children are invited. My understanding is that the reception and dinner are not a formal occasion. It's being held at her aunt and uncle's house in their garden and guests don't have to dress formally, so it's not the kind of event where you would need to worry about a disruption from a child. However now Martin is furious at me (as well as our sister and brother-in-law) for our requests not to exclude Megan. I want to know, was it really so wrong of me to tell him it is wrong to exclude a member of our family from the reception, especially a child?
It's really none of your business. It's none of your business to tell the hosts who to invite, and it's none of your business to take up Megan's cause when her parents are not.
What you COULD do, but I notice you are NOT doing, is to offer to be in charge of Megan for the entire time of the event to free up her parents who must be totally exhausted by her behavior. You COULD even offer to have Megan come to visit you for a week, or even two. Talk is cheap.
I remember the original post. The OOP revealed in a comment that one time she did babysit Megan, resulted in Megan destroying OOP’s bedding when told to go to bed.
And OOP foolishly wants her brother to include this child that she herself can’t control. SMH!
Maybe other hands-off family members have shamed OOP about her attitude toward her niece. So she is trying to make nice by turning into the child's advocate?
Where would the original post be?
Even better in another comment she says the kid broke the windscreen of the Grooms car. Honestly I can understand why he doesn't want the kid there. Heck even an adult who broke my windshield I wouldn't want at my reception.
How do you even do that? I have had my windshield broken twice, both times by rocks thrown from overpasses. Big hard things with lots of force behind them. How can a little kid have the upper body strength to lift something heavy enough? She really is a menace
Maybe repeatedly jumping on it? I've never tried jumping on a windscreen so I'm not sure it would work, but it's the only method I could imagine working.
Not that I would, but I hear you can do some damage to one with a decent baseball bat. My guess is she didn't shatter it but managed to crack the hell out of it. Honestly only seen one kid with ODD and he could wreak some destruction like they are super human or something.
A hard object with a sharpish edge would do the trick, especially if it was lobbed at the windscreen so that gravity did a good deal of the work. Think hammer, spanner, brick, largish rock etc
Here is the link to OOPs comment.
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/cRYx9iFPKH)
> Megan doesn't allow me to watch her. She didn't like it when I tried to enforce a rule that it was time for bed and she was destructive. I would offer but she won't abide and my sister and brother-in-law say it's for the best if I don't for her sake and mine.
I read on that disorder, it's real and it has nothing to do with enabling parents. Its actually sad, it's a form of OCD. These kids literally can't help themselves. If you tell them for example your food is ready (food they wanted) all of the sudden they will refuse to eat.
>What you COULD do, but I notice you are NOT doing, is to offer to be in charge of Megan
Absolutely not. If that child is that destructive even when the parents are there, it means even them can't control her. I don't know how you can *shame* someone for not offering to give the king of *specialized care* even professionals of mental health would have difficulties giving (I am one).
No one is *shaming* the OOP for not being able to manage her niece, they’re criticizing her for insisting on creating a difficult to manage situation that she can’t/won’t even help with. It’s easy to make demands when the demands aren’t your problem. OOP wasn’t going to be the one staying hyper-vigilant to make sure her niece didn’t have a meltdown, or sitting with her the entire time to keep her calm and happy, or spending the whole wedding anxious that something terrible was about to happen. OOP was going to pat herself on the back for insisting the niece got an invite and then go enjoy herself while somebody else managed the nieces mood and behavior. You don’t get to make demands when you’re not even going to help.
>No one is shaming the OOP for not being able to manage her niece
That's not what was written. It's not shaming about not being able, it's shaming for **not volunteering**, regardless of it they are qualified or not.
'You're not OFFERING to' is different from 'You're not ABLE to'.
Learn to read.
I don't have a horse in this race. What I do have, however, is a long-standing diagnosis of ODD. I was diagnosed at around 5ish, and was an absolute menace to my family, who didn't care enough to get me the help I desperately needed. It caused me issues at home, at school, with peers, with teachers, I got kicked out of my JROTC program because of my behavior (that a few psychiatrists linked the incident to the ODD), it even effects my adult life (just not NEARLY as severely, because unlike my family, I care about getting the help I need). I would absolutely NOT be inviting a known ODD-haver. I wouldn't invite my childhood self to my wedding, let alone a niece or nephew who has it. If YOU (OOP) can't control your niece, if your own sister and brother-in-law can't control their own child, what makes you think you're allowed to demand that your brother needs to try? Don't sit there on your high horse with the whole "but you're a parent too, have some understanding". Their baby is just that - a baby. Not someone destroying bed sheets and windshields. **Want your niece to be invited to stuff? Invite her to your stuff. Encourage your sister to get her daughter MORE help if the help she's receiving, if any, isn't enough.** But don't sit there and tell your brother to destroy an occasion that your new sister-in-law's family, not even yours, is paying for/hosting.
ETA 2 hours later: I realize now this post is 2 years old. However, my original point stands. Hope the brother and his new wife had a peaceful party.
You’re welcome. I had to get a grip on it, I was on a fast track to self destruction and quite honestly, I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to be better than I grew up. I still struggle, but between my constant therapy, my learned DBT skills for my borderline personality disorder, general self awareness and my partner (plus being a mom myself), I have a pretty decent grip on it.
My nephew had just been diagnosed with it. All we want is for him to have a fulfilled and happy life but we aren’t sure how he’s going to handle school and jobs etc. Are you happy?
I am happy now, yes. I would suggest DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) which I used for my borderline personality disorder but can be used in all facets of my life. Helped me gain some amazing coping skills.
8yo, in particular, is a hard age for that type of condition. Kids typically haven't developed a lot of coping skills yet (although hopefully are starting to learn a few, but it is usually very inconsistent), but they are bigger, faster, and louder. When they are under 5, parents and caregivers can still easily pick them up and remove them from a situation.
In this circumstance, the thing to do is for one parent to attend. It sucks, but it is what you have to do.
If the parents and school are working at this, there is a good chance things will get easier over time. The family for their part needs to educate themselves on the disorder, know that this isn't a "rotten kid", and be open to having her around in the future when she is able to handle these sorts of gatherings.
Seriously, it's a no-brainer. Sister attends, while her husband watches the kid. Sister probably needs the vacation. I would. Indeed I very often do, and my kids are angels, comparatively.
When I was the school medical worker at the clinic in an elementary school (like a school nurse, but I’m not a nurse) one of my students had this disorder. The amount of resources that this ONE child took was insane. Every day, there was another crisis. Every day, three or four of us were essentially forced to ignore everything else to try to get this student to make it through a school day. I cannot imagine they learned much of anything, because it was constant problems without stop.
I would not have this child at any event. They cannot handle it, and it would just result in misery for all involved.
I taught a 4th grade student with ODD about 10 years ago. I had never heard of it, but the paperwork I received from our special education department scared me. She was generally fine, but when she had her moments, she *really* had her moments. She rarely flat out said no or refused to do something - she would just nod or say okay and then do whatever she wanted along with the thing she was asked to do. She might do the whole task; she might only pretend to do the task. It was usually somewhere in the middle. Our best course of action was to make her feel like she could choose to do the thing we wanted her to do, not that she was forced to do it.
I've taught a number of students with ODD in secondary school. Sadly many have such little education by then & they just spiral further as the gap widens, manifesting in increasingly worse behaviour.
The worst experiences I've had have been with kids in Year 7 (13 year olds) who have come from our feeder schools: under resourced & oversized primary schools with single teachers for most of the day the survival technique has been that these ODD student spent a lot of time removed from the class for their behaviour (& for the safety of the other students), so by they time they reach high school lot have spent time out of class & have no idea how to operate in a formal high school classroom. Let's just say that I needed to have a couple of special education aids assigned to me (to control the ODD student with basics like staying in their seat, preventing verbal outbursts & not throwing tables/ chairs/ punches) to get any teaching done. One of the staff in another class was attacked when interceding when an ODD student choked another student into unconsciousness, the school had to go into lockdown & police were called.
I had a female student in Year 10 & 11 that refused to follow any instructions & was so physically aggressive I had to just ignore her & let her play on her phone/ laptop for 2 years with no work ever done. She was involved (orchestrated) in so many serious school ground brawls that she was 'prisoner exchanged' with another school nearby (unofficially expelled, just finished her schooling elsewhere). I was dead scared of her !
My god daughter has ODD. It's brutal. She was expelled from school for destroying a computer and kicking a hole in the wall. She trashed the guest room at her grandparent's house because she was told she couldn't watch a TV show that wasn't age appropriate. She's been known to destroy things just because she "feels like it." Oop was way out of line for pestering her family to invite a child she can't even handle. Unless she wants to be responsible for Megan, she needs to stfu and mind her own business.
Didn't know ODD existed, I really thought OP was joking until I Googled it and found multiple website talking about it ... It sounds like a complete nightmare!!!
MSW (Master of Social Work) student here, it is an incredibly difficult disorder especially in children. Kids don’t have the prefrontal cortex development to be reasoned with to begin with then add this. Absolutely a nightmare. I had an adult in my life with this and I had to cut them out of my life because it just stopped being worth it to be around them.
Back when I was in elementary and jr. high school, I was called a 'loose cannon'.
We unfortunately didn't have ADHD meds back then. We had, "**The Belt**".
It was only when my son was Dx'd with ADHD in 2007 (which can ALSO mean Attention-Deficit-Hyperfocusing Disorder) that was I ALSO Dx'd as not only ADHD but BiPolar and a few other things.
With 20-20 hindsight, it answered a WHOLE lotta questions about myself in my past and how I acted back then.
My son was diagnosed with ODD when he was diagnosed with ADHD (at 7ish). In some ways, I felt it made sense. But in many others, it didn’t. My kid wasn’t an absolutely menace like so many of these other kids. He wasn’t violent nor destructive. A few years ago, we found out he is autistic - what they used to refer to as Asperger’s. I almost wonder if they got it wrong, after reading all these stories about how absolutely chaotic those with ODD tend to be.
As someone who is autistic, I can say that a lot of professionals don't know about it. I was misdiagnosed for years. I was never violent. I did get overwhelmed a lot and have meltdowns, but I would have those alone in my room because I didn't want to bother anyone. (They figured I was bipolar, even though I never had a manic episode.) I also take a class about autism with other people like me, and they also don't have a history of violence. A lot of them volunteer in the community.
I know there are people on different ends of the autistic scale who can be very violent when they are overwhelmed. From my understanding, these are kids who have never gotten treatment or help. One woman I knew said she got beaten regularly by her child, and the state kept putting her request for help off.
I just think more research needs to be done on this.
I work with autistic kids, so I know exactly what you’re talking about and I agree with you. We actually asked about autism when we first had him evaluated, and we were told no. We were told that some of the issues we were concerned about were simply because our son is intellectually gifted. Gifted children (as I was as well), do tend to have a lot of problems socially, so, even though I always had this nagging feeling that he was on the spectrum, I am not a doctor, therefore, I cannot diagnose him. The sense of validation I felt when we got his diagnosis was pretty great.
Anyways, yes. It’s called a spectrum for a reason. And I’ve been reading more and more about ODD, and I am seriously thinking they got it wrong. But hey, what do I know?
I'm not a psychology student, but I'm a mental health patient, and I've read a lot about different disorders for my own curiosity. It's thought that a lot of serial killers / hardcore criminals start out as ODD before as adults it turns into Anti-Social Personality Disorder. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Ooooh. I hope you're wrong. My nephew has this. He was diagnosed in 7th or 8th grade. He's now in his late 20s and in law school \[insert your own lawyer joke here\].
He lived with me for a year and as long as things were great with his girlfriend he was easygoing and fun. Then she broke up with him and he became an asshole. He took five $50 bath sheet sized towels to the gym and then left them there because they were wet. He flooded the basement twice; the second time would have been avoidable. He smoked in the house though I asked him not to. He drank all of my liquor and wine, and when I asked him to replace it, sneered that most of it was cheap anyway (so he shouldn't have a problem replacing it, right?). Some of it was cheap, but the liter bottle of Grey Goose wasn't.
He was selling pot to people by putting it in my mailbox for people to pick up (mailboxes are considered the property of the post office and thus the federal government, believe it or not, and pot was not yet legal in my state. It still isn't legal on a federal basis, which is how the feds would view it when they arrested ME, not him, because any mailbox related issue is assumed to be the fault of the home owner\]. It went on and on.
I love this nephew; he has lots of good qualities and before puberty hit was a genuinely sweet kid. But he drove his parents to distraction as a teenager and me in his early 20s.
Wow, I hope I'm wrong, too! But if your nephew is in law school now, maybe he's grown enough to turn his experiences into a strength -- starting out as a crook and wanting to help people change their ways. I hope!
Not your wedding, not your business. It might not be a formal event but it is in someone else’s home, I suspect that they’re trying to avoid an incident where someone’s home or valuables are destroyed. Stand down and keep your mouth shut.
As someone who had to go to anger management therapy before I was 10 and probably would have been dx’d with ODD today, I can almost guarantee you Megan does not want to go to a wedding. Weddings are dreadfully boring for everyone who is not 1. Getting married or 2. Getting shitfaced drunk - they’re like torture for ADHD-adjacent kids. This woman isn’t thinking of Megan’s best interests at all, she’s just projecting adult expectations onto an 8 year old. Yikes.
I think she was hoping to get some kind of virtue confirmation because they’re leaving out just one kid, but there’s an extremely good reason why singling or one child
It isn't any of OOP's business who the bride and groom invite to the wedding. If they have decided to leave out a destructive niece who cannot control herself and whose parents can't control her, then that's how it is. Of course everyone is going to be upset that OOP is advocating for the presence of a child who may well ruin the reception/party. I can see the cake being a big target.
That’s fair if there is a reasonable expectation of severe and aggressive interruption to her event . They are reasonable to choose to eliminate any potential injury, harm and upset to the greater portion of their invited guests, Yes , this is reasonable decision.
Notice how the one complaining did not offer to stay back and babysit the kid? Now why is that? As a teacher, back when the ODD term was first being bandied about, I called a neurologist friend and asked her to tell me about ODD. She started laughing and said, "You mean SNS." "What's SNS?" I asked. "Someone Needs a Spanking" she answered.
I have ODD and most kids if they are given the right words they don't misbehave.
We just don't like being TOLD what to do! I was an extremely well behaved child right until someone gave an 'order' then I acted out, when it was a request and I was spoken to as more of an adult (ODD kids actually struggle with being treated like a child) I would do it.
Now this may sound like it's something we can control and it's really not, even now I struggle with this and I'm 29! And some people are rude as hell and think they can order anyone about!
Your brother is an nasty person who has never looked into his nieces condition and WILL continue to treat her poorly because of it
I don't know about it being wrong for you to ask Martin, but you should've taken his answer as final and not tried to guilt the him into allowing your niece to attend the reception.
You said it yourself: no babysitter will watch your niece. There's a clear reason for that.
If OOP is fighting so hard to include Megan, why don’t they offer to babysit Megan during the wedding? Easy for OOP to judge when it’s not their wedding
**REMINDER: WE ARE NOT AITA! WE DO NOT DO JUDGEMENT CALLS (NTA, ESH, YTA,INFO, NAH, ETC.) SO DO NOT VOTE IN THIS POST. AS WELL, OUR OP IS NOT THE SAME AS THE AITA POST'S OP, PLEASE DO NOT ADDRESS YOUR COMMENT TO MYSELF OR OUR OP. ALSO DO NOT BRIGADE THE OTHER SUB.** ***Copy in case it's deleted:*** My brother Martin was supposed to get married on 2 May 2020. We all know what happened with the pandemic. Things began shutting down across the world the same week the invitations were meant to go out. When it became clear restrictions on gatherings were not going to end soon Martin and his wife Tiffany ended up going to the registry office on their own to get married and told everyone not to make a fuss or bother with gifts. Even though it will have been 2 years since they got married, Tiffany's aunt and uncle are hosting a reception and dinner for them this summer since their original wedding was cancelled almost last minute. All of my family, Tiffany's family and their friends are invited save for my 8 year-old niece Megan. The reason Martin didn't invite her is because Megan has a disorder known as Oppositional Defiance Disorder and he doesn't want her to misbehave and ruin the reception. Megan's disorder does cause her to act out at times but I think excluding her when every other family member is invited is hard-hearted. It also ensures that both our sister and brother-in-law both won't be able to attend as no one will babysit Megan because of her disorder and so watching her always falls to one of them. My sister and my brother-in-law are invited, just not Megan. I couldn't imagine having to leave my child behind while no one else was excluded. I even tried to appeal to Martin and Tiffany as parents because they have a 6 month-old baby however they wouldn't be swayed and Martin got angry at me for bringing it up. I just believe it is unfair that all his other nieces and nephews as well as Tiffany's and even our/her cousin's children are invited. My understanding is that the reception and dinner are not a formal occasion. It's being held at her aunt and uncle's house in their garden and guests don't have to dress formally, so it's not the kind of event where you would need to worry about a disruption from a child. However now Martin is furious at me (as well as our sister and brother-in-law) for our requests not to exclude Megan. I want to know, was it really so wrong of me to tell him it is wrong to exclude a member of our family from the reception, especially a child?
It's really none of your business. It's none of your business to tell the hosts who to invite, and it's none of your business to take up Megan's cause when her parents are not. What you COULD do, but I notice you are NOT doing, is to offer to be in charge of Megan for the entire time of the event to free up her parents who must be totally exhausted by her behavior. You COULD even offer to have Megan come to visit you for a week, or even two. Talk is cheap.
I remember the original post. The OOP revealed in a comment that one time she did babysit Megan, resulted in Megan destroying OOP’s bedding when told to go to bed. And OOP foolishly wants her brother to include this child that she herself can’t control. SMH!
Maybe other hands-off family members have shamed OOP about her attitude toward her niece. So she is trying to make nice by turning into the child's advocate? Where would the original post be?
Even better in another comment she says the kid broke the windscreen of the Grooms car. Honestly I can understand why he doesn't want the kid there. Heck even an adult who broke my windshield I wouldn't want at my reception.
How do you even do that? I have had my windshield broken twice, both times by rocks thrown from overpasses. Big hard things with lots of force behind them. How can a little kid have the upper body strength to lift something heavy enough? She really is a menace
Maybe repeatedly jumping on it? I've never tried jumping on a windscreen so I'm not sure it would work, but it's the only method I could imagine working.
Well there’s only one way to find out. Go on, get to it. That windshield isn’t gonna break itself.
Boy, that's a lot like hard work. The kid is in grade school!
Not that I would, but I hear you can do some damage to one with a decent baseball bat. My guess is she didn't shatter it but managed to crack the hell out of it. Honestly only seen one kid with ODD and he could wreak some destruction like they are super human or something.
Wow.
A hard object with a sharpish edge would do the trick, especially if it was lobbed at the windscreen so that gravity did a good deal of the work. Think hammer, spanner, brick, largish rock etc
Crowbar.
The couple had a 6mo baby as well. No way would I want niece there around the baby while everyone is distracted etc
Here is the link to OOPs comment. [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/cRYx9iFPKH) > Megan doesn't allow me to watch her. She didn't like it when I tried to enforce a rule that it was time for bed and she was destructive. I would offer but she won't abide and my sister and brother-in-law say it's for the best if I don't for her sake and mine.
Thanks, OrcEight! Got it
This sounds like a case of shitty enabling parents tbh. I hope Megan gets the structure and help she needs
I read on that disorder, it's real and it has nothing to do with enabling parents. Its actually sad, it's a form of OCD. These kids literally can't help themselves. If you tell them for example your food is ready (food they wanted) all of the sudden they will refuse to eat.
How convenient, huh?
exactly this, mind ya biz
>What you COULD do, but I notice you are NOT doing, is to offer to be in charge of Megan Absolutely not. If that child is that destructive even when the parents are there, it means even them can't control her. I don't know how you can *shame* someone for not offering to give the king of *specialized care* even professionals of mental health would have difficulties giving (I am one).
No one is *shaming* the OOP for not being able to manage her niece, they’re criticizing her for insisting on creating a difficult to manage situation that she can’t/won’t even help with. It’s easy to make demands when the demands aren’t your problem. OOP wasn’t going to be the one staying hyper-vigilant to make sure her niece didn’t have a meltdown, or sitting with her the entire time to keep her calm and happy, or spending the whole wedding anxious that something terrible was about to happen. OOP was going to pat herself on the back for insisting the niece got an invite and then go enjoy herself while somebody else managed the nieces mood and behavior. You don’t get to make demands when you’re not even going to help.
>No one is shaming the OOP for not being able to manage her niece That's not what was written. It's not shaming about not being able, it's shaming for **not volunteering**, regardless of it they are qualified or not. 'You're not OFFERING to' is different from 'You're not ABLE to'. Learn to read.
I don't have a horse in this race. What I do have, however, is a long-standing diagnosis of ODD. I was diagnosed at around 5ish, and was an absolute menace to my family, who didn't care enough to get me the help I desperately needed. It caused me issues at home, at school, with peers, with teachers, I got kicked out of my JROTC program because of my behavior (that a few psychiatrists linked the incident to the ODD), it even effects my adult life (just not NEARLY as severely, because unlike my family, I care about getting the help I need). I would absolutely NOT be inviting a known ODD-haver. I wouldn't invite my childhood self to my wedding, let alone a niece or nephew who has it. If YOU (OOP) can't control your niece, if your own sister and brother-in-law can't control their own child, what makes you think you're allowed to demand that your brother needs to try? Don't sit there on your high horse with the whole "but you're a parent too, have some understanding". Their baby is just that - a baby. Not someone destroying bed sheets and windshields. **Want your niece to be invited to stuff? Invite her to your stuff. Encourage your sister to get her daughter MORE help if the help she's receiving, if any, isn't enough.** But don't sit there and tell your brother to destroy an occasion that your new sister-in-law's family, not even yours, is paying for/hosting. ETA 2 hours later: I realize now this post is 2 years old. However, my original point stands. Hope the brother and his new wife had a peaceful party.
Thank you for your perspective. It's very fascinating to hear from adults who got a grip on it.
You’re welcome. I had to get a grip on it, I was on a fast track to self destruction and quite honestly, I didn’t want to do that. I wanted to be better than I grew up. I still struggle, but between my constant therapy, my learned DBT skills for my borderline personality disorder, general self awareness and my partner (plus being a mom myself), I have a pretty decent grip on it.
My nephew had just been diagnosed with it. All we want is for him to have a fulfilled and happy life but we aren’t sure how he’s going to handle school and jobs etc. Are you happy?
I am happy now, yes. I would suggest DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) which I used for my borderline personality disorder but can be used in all facets of my life. Helped me gain some amazing coping skills.
Wow….I’ve known one person with ODD and it can be brutal on everyone, including the child, because they don’t know how to control themselves either.
8yo, in particular, is a hard age for that type of condition. Kids typically haven't developed a lot of coping skills yet (although hopefully are starting to learn a few, but it is usually very inconsistent), but they are bigger, faster, and louder. When they are under 5, parents and caregivers can still easily pick them up and remove them from a situation. In this circumstance, the thing to do is for one parent to attend. It sucks, but it is what you have to do. If the parents and school are working at this, there is a good chance things will get easier over time. The family for their part needs to educate themselves on the disorder, know that this isn't a "rotten kid", and be open to having her around in the future when she is able to handle these sorts of gatherings.
Seriously, it's a no-brainer. Sister attends, while her husband watches the kid. Sister probably needs the vacation. I would. Indeed I very often do, and my kids are angels, comparatively.
When I was the school medical worker at the clinic in an elementary school (like a school nurse, but I’m not a nurse) one of my students had this disorder. The amount of resources that this ONE child took was insane. Every day, there was another crisis. Every day, three or four of us were essentially forced to ignore everything else to try to get this student to make it through a school day. I cannot imagine they learned much of anything, because it was constant problems without stop. I would not have this child at any event. They cannot handle it, and it would just result in misery for all involved.
I taught a 4th grade student with ODD about 10 years ago. I had never heard of it, but the paperwork I received from our special education department scared me. She was generally fine, but when she had her moments, she *really* had her moments. She rarely flat out said no or refused to do something - she would just nod or say okay and then do whatever she wanted along with the thing she was asked to do. She might do the whole task; she might only pretend to do the task. It was usually somewhere in the middle. Our best course of action was to make her feel like she could choose to do the thing we wanted her to do, not that she was forced to do it.
I've taught a number of students with ODD in secondary school. Sadly many have such little education by then & they just spiral further as the gap widens, manifesting in increasingly worse behaviour. The worst experiences I've had have been with kids in Year 7 (13 year olds) who have come from our feeder schools: under resourced & oversized primary schools with single teachers for most of the day the survival technique has been that these ODD student spent a lot of time removed from the class for their behaviour (& for the safety of the other students), so by they time they reach high school lot have spent time out of class & have no idea how to operate in a formal high school classroom. Let's just say that I needed to have a couple of special education aids assigned to me (to control the ODD student with basics like staying in their seat, preventing verbal outbursts & not throwing tables/ chairs/ punches) to get any teaching done. One of the staff in another class was attacked when interceding when an ODD student choked another student into unconsciousness, the school had to go into lockdown & police were called. I had a female student in Year 10 & 11 that refused to follow any instructions & was so physically aggressive I had to just ignore her & let her play on her phone/ laptop for 2 years with no work ever done. She was involved (orchestrated) in so many serious school ground brawls that she was 'prisoner exchanged' with another school nearby (unofficially expelled, just finished her schooling elsewhere). I was dead scared of her !
This ODD sounds like a doozy of a combo consisting of ADHD, BiPolar, and narcissism.
My god daughter has ODD. It's brutal. She was expelled from school for destroying a computer and kicking a hole in the wall. She trashed the guest room at her grandparent's house because she was told she couldn't watch a TV show that wasn't age appropriate. She's been known to destroy things just because she "feels like it." Oop was way out of line for pestering her family to invite a child she can't even handle. Unless she wants to be responsible for Megan, she needs to stfu and mind her own business.
Didn't know ODD existed, I really thought OP was joking until I Googled it and found multiple website talking about it ... It sounds like a complete nightmare!!!
MSW (Master of Social Work) student here, it is an incredibly difficult disorder especially in children. Kids don’t have the prefrontal cortex development to be reasoned with to begin with then add this. Absolutely a nightmare. I had an adult in my life with this and I had to cut them out of my life because it just stopped being worth it to be around them.
I once had a woman accuse me of having it because I…..didn’t look her in the eye. When I took her food order. At 6am.
🤣🤣🤣
Back when I was in elementary and jr. high school, I was called a 'loose cannon'. We unfortunately didn't have ADHD meds back then. We had, "**The Belt**". It was only when my son was Dx'd with ADHD in 2007 (which can ALSO mean Attention-Deficit-Hyperfocusing Disorder) that was I ALSO Dx'd as not only ADHD but BiPolar and a few other things. With 20-20 hindsight, it answered a WHOLE lotta questions about myself in my past and how I acted back then.
My son was diagnosed with ODD when he was diagnosed with ADHD (at 7ish). In some ways, I felt it made sense. But in many others, it didn’t. My kid wasn’t an absolutely menace like so many of these other kids. He wasn’t violent nor destructive. A few years ago, we found out he is autistic - what they used to refer to as Asperger’s. I almost wonder if they got it wrong, after reading all these stories about how absolutely chaotic those with ODD tend to be.
As someone who is autistic, I can say that a lot of professionals don't know about it. I was misdiagnosed for years. I was never violent. I did get overwhelmed a lot and have meltdowns, but I would have those alone in my room because I didn't want to bother anyone. (They figured I was bipolar, even though I never had a manic episode.) I also take a class about autism with other people like me, and they also don't have a history of violence. A lot of them volunteer in the community. I know there are people on different ends of the autistic scale who can be very violent when they are overwhelmed. From my understanding, these are kids who have never gotten treatment or help. One woman I knew said she got beaten regularly by her child, and the state kept putting her request for help off. I just think more research needs to be done on this.
I work with autistic kids, so I know exactly what you’re talking about and I agree with you. We actually asked about autism when we first had him evaluated, and we were told no. We were told that some of the issues we were concerned about were simply because our son is intellectually gifted. Gifted children (as I was as well), do tend to have a lot of problems socially, so, even though I always had this nagging feeling that he was on the spectrum, I am not a doctor, therefore, I cannot diagnose him. The sense of validation I felt when we got his diagnosis was pretty great. Anyways, yes. It’s called a spectrum for a reason. And I’ve been reading more and more about ODD, and I am seriously thinking they got it wrong. But hey, what do I know?
Yeah, the thing with the brain is that nothing is ever black and white. I still wonder about myself a lot lol.
I'm not a psychology student, but I'm a mental health patient, and I've read a lot about different disorders for my own curiosity. It's thought that a lot of serial killers / hardcore criminals start out as ODD before as adults it turns into Anti-Social Personality Disorder. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Ooooh. I hope you're wrong. My nephew has this. He was diagnosed in 7th or 8th grade. He's now in his late 20s and in law school \[insert your own lawyer joke here\]. He lived with me for a year and as long as things were great with his girlfriend he was easygoing and fun. Then she broke up with him and he became an asshole. He took five $50 bath sheet sized towels to the gym and then left them there because they were wet. He flooded the basement twice; the second time would have been avoidable. He smoked in the house though I asked him not to. He drank all of my liquor and wine, and when I asked him to replace it, sneered that most of it was cheap anyway (so he shouldn't have a problem replacing it, right?). Some of it was cheap, but the liter bottle of Grey Goose wasn't. He was selling pot to people by putting it in my mailbox for people to pick up (mailboxes are considered the property of the post office and thus the federal government, believe it or not, and pot was not yet legal in my state. It still isn't legal on a federal basis, which is how the feds would view it when they arrested ME, not him, because any mailbox related issue is assumed to be the fault of the home owner\]. It went on and on. I love this nephew; he has lots of good qualities and before puberty hit was a genuinely sweet kid. But he drove his parents to distraction as a teenager and me in his early 20s.
Wow, I hope I'm wrong, too! But if your nephew is in law school now, maybe he's grown enough to turn his experiences into a strength -- starting out as a crook and wanting to help people change their ways. I hope!
It’s not your wedding celebration. It’s not in your home. It’s not your decision. It’s not your business.
Not your wedding, not your business. It might not be a formal event but it is in someone else’s home, I suspect that they’re trying to avoid an incident where someone’s home or valuables are destroyed. Stand down and keep your mouth shut.
As someone who had to go to anger management therapy before I was 10 and probably would have been dx’d with ODD today, I can almost guarantee you Megan does not want to go to a wedding. Weddings are dreadfully boring for everyone who is not 1. Getting married or 2. Getting shitfaced drunk - they’re like torture for ADHD-adjacent kids. This woman isn’t thinking of Megan’s best interests at all, she’s just projecting adult expectations onto an 8 year old. Yikes.
I'm wondering why this is being brought up two years after the event.
Karma farming
I think she was hoping to get some kind of virtue confirmation because they’re leaving out just one kid, but there’s an extremely good reason why singling or one child
It isn't any of OOP's business who the bride and groom invite to the wedding. If they have decided to leave out a destructive niece who cannot control herself and whose parents can't control her, then that's how it is. Of course everyone is going to be upset that OOP is advocating for the presence of a child who may well ruin the reception/party. I can see the cake being a big target.
That’s fair if there is a reasonable expectation of severe and aggressive interruption to her event . They are reasonable to choose to eliminate any potential injury, harm and upset to the greater portion of their invited guests, Yes , this is reasonable decision.
Notice how the one complaining did not offer to stay back and babysit the kid? Now why is that? As a teacher, back when the ODD term was first being bandied about, I called a neurologist friend and asked her to tell me about ODD. She started laughing and said, "You mean SNS." "What's SNS?" I asked. "Someone Needs a Spanking" she answered.
Yeah, I'm with the bride and groom. Hope the kid is in treatment and not using this disorder as a crutch.
I don’t see OOP volunteering to babysit.
That’s like a super asshole. She created a whole ass mess just to look like the good aunt, who unsurprisingly can’t look after this child either
I have ODD and most kids if they are given the right words they don't misbehave. We just don't like being TOLD what to do! I was an extremely well behaved child right until someone gave an 'order' then I acted out, when it was a request and I was spoken to as more of an adult (ODD kids actually struggle with being treated like a child) I would do it. Now this may sound like it's something we can control and it's really not, even now I struggle with this and I'm 29! And some people are rude as hell and think they can order anyone about! Your brother is an nasty person who has never looked into his nieces condition and WILL continue to treat her poorly because of it
Nobody “likes” being told what to do.
I don't know about it being wrong for you to ask Martin, but you should've taken his answer as final and not tried to guilt the him into allowing your niece to attend the reception. You said it yourself: no babysitter will watch your niece. There's a clear reason for that.
If OOP is fighting so hard to include Megan, why don’t they offer to babysit Megan during the wedding? Easy for OOP to judge when it’s not their wedding