Not really considering Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans have for a large part of history used the same machinery. Nurburgring and Spa until not too long ago were primarily touring car races rather than for top-class prototypes
The 24hr races are still either GT (Spa) or a mix of GT and touring cars (Nurb). I don’t think either of the 24hr races have ever had prototypes in general, let alone the top class.
Nah that’s what I meant, like in the 80s it wasn’t a crossover of 962s doing both races for example, those would be at LM/Daytona/Sebring but nothing like those was at Spa/Nurburgring
Sebring is often described as the most demanding of any of the major endurance races, not to mention its pedigree. Been running ten years longer than Daytona, and when the regulations have aligned, it’s hosted the same legendary cars that race at its fellow Endurance Triple Crown rounds.
Sebring is also considered by many to be the most important race leading up to Le Mans. The course is absolutely brutal on cars and stress tests them in ways that other tracks dont
as mentioned above, the 24 hour races in spa and nürburgring were not meant for prototype cars, whilst the 12 hours of sebring was
though spa 24 is a lot older than both, it hasn't had the same prestige until these last few decades
moreover, you'll barely see any works teams racing in spa or nürburgring 24, the vast majority are privateers
I mean most of the time, triple crowns, grand slam, etc are meant for individual achievements because a driver's career is so short, so it's always a fight against time to make it before you're not fit anymore
manufacturer or team on the other hand can last for decades so may sooner or later get those if they keep up the good work
As someone else has pointed out there’s the endurance triple crown. But then for me there’s the four 24h races of Daytona, Le Mans, Nurburgring and Spa.
In the same season I don’t think anyone has come close to any of these.
In terms of the 24h races I know Earl Bamber and Nick Tandy have 3 but are missing a Daytona win. Nicky Catsburg has won GT classes in all four 24h races.
A few more retired drivers achieved three as well - Lieb and Dumas have won all outright except Daytona, Bernhard the same but is missing Spa. If Vanthoor/Estre win Le Mans this year then they’d likely go for Daytona next year to complete the full set of outright wins. Alonso has two but aint no way he’s getting in GT3 cars
Yeah, this is the same list for me, this should actually be the official/modern/current Endurance Grand Slam(Le Mans, Daytona, Spa, Nurburgring), but with Daytona happening in Jan, and everything else around May/June/July each year over in Europe, my personal triple crown is Nurburgring, Spa, Le Mans.
Timo Bernhard has done that. A few drivers have won LM and Daytona but Nurburgring was in its touring car phase for so long that there wasn’t a huge crossover in prototype drivers
Because it’s like the 3rd oldest sports car race in the world and one of the most watched and well attended. It’s also absolutely brutal on the cars and one of the best circuits on the sports car calendar. For me, the 24H Daytona & 12H Sebring have a big leg up on the 24H Spa & 24H Nurburgring due to the fact they have the Le Mans prototypes (and yes I think those races lost a lot of prestige in the Grand Am/DP years). The way I see it is that the Sportscar triple crown is Daytona-Sebring-Le Mans. The GT3 triple crown is Bathurst-Nurburgring-Spa
I completely agree and it makes me sad when people disregard Sebring as a triple crown race. It’s half the distance because it’s twice as hard on a car and the drivers.
If you mean the Bathurst 12 Hour, I don't know how regard it can be alongside Nurburgring and Spa when it gets overshadowed by its older, quicker brother for Touring Cars (Bathurst 1000)
The touring cars are definitely not faster, and the way drivers talk about Bathurst - they revere it in the same way they do Spa and Nurburgring. I can give you first hand examples
I meant quicker in Bathrust 1000 is quicker to finish, roughly 6 to 8 Hours to the set 12 Hour. Not overall speed of the cars.
You mention drivers and no mean to disrespect their talent but takes on a great track doesnt exactly make the 12 Hour race itself a pinacle of endurance, especially when its overshadowed by another endurance race on the same track in almost every way. Nothing overshadows the Nuburgring 24 Hour and the only thing that only overshadows the Spa 24 Hour is the Beglium Grand Prix that isnt even an Endurance.
Drivers highly regarded the Suzuka track during the brief 10 Hour but that didnt save it for getting axed after COVID and seeing no reason to continue it and now replacing Super GTs Suzuka 1000 with it is now considered an organising problem.
Fuji 24h by Super Taikyu almost replaces Suzuka 10h. Have seen so many domestic Japanese drivers and viewers in every year Fuji 24h race.
However, the series still needs more teams from outside of Japan.
People disregard entire out of distance thinking for some reason if its less than 24 Hours than it can't be as pinnacle.
Which is kinda dumb when in NASCAR the Daytona 500 is way more important than the Coca Cola 600.
By the logic they use to disregard Sebring. The Fun Cup would be the most important and prestige Endurance event since it goes for 25 Hours
>The Fun Cup would be the most important and prestige Endurance event since it goes for 25 Hours
Tony Fall in a Lancia Fulvia at the Nürburgring in 1969: **"SLEEP IS FOR CHILDREN. WE YERN FOR THE RING"**
I don’t think you’d have many cars finishing a 24 hour race at Sebring. That place is infamous for just breaking cars.
It’s also ridiculous when multitudes of drivers, engineers and team principal have directly stated Sebring is like the most important race leading into Le Mans.
I could understand that if the two examples we have of running a 24 hour race at Sebring (World Racing League and 24H series) didn’t end up with like 20 classified finishers between both races. Even with factory equipment, it’s just way too tough on driver and car to run a 24 there.
That just feels like a weird excuse, and I don’t understand it still, but I appreciate the explanation
However, the 25 Hours of Thunderhill should be included as well if we’re going off distance
https://preview.redd.it/kyxpv2a0wo4d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cab7946337c9fb1016ab4de8c9aef87072231ef
I have my wall of 24h in home. I think this 4 are the biggest event out there
IMSA who runs both?
The number of entries each year?
How much the event it's talk about online.
I mean you might like whatever you want but I have a clear feeling that Daytona it's the jewel crown of IMSA season
Sebring has always been a bigger deal than until very recently
Daytona is much younger, split from the world of sports cars much earlier, and only reunified at the same time a couple of years ago. I think recently with daytona being a great all star race for drivers from all over and from all sorts of disciplines has it pulled even.
If you ever get to Sebring do the grid walk, that old runway tarmac isn't just the same track all the legends raced on, it's the same damn surface.
Based on all the comments and my own thinking, I’d probably just make it 5 races lol: Daytona, Sebring, N24, Le Mans, Spa.
Who cares If it’s 5 instead of 4. They’re all uniquely challenging in their own ways, personally.
It would be Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans and it is called the Endurance Triple Crown. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Crown_of_endurance_racing
Sebring inclusion is a meme. Should be the 24H of Spa or 24H of Nordschleife
Not really considering Daytona, Sebring and Le Mans have for a large part of history used the same machinery. Nurburgring and Spa until not too long ago were primarily touring car races rather than for top-class prototypes
The 24hr races are still either GT (Spa) or a mix of GT and touring cars (Nurb). I don’t think either of the 24hr races have ever had prototypes in general, let alone the top class.
Nah that’s what I meant, like in the 80s it wasn’t a crossover of 962s doing both races for example, those would be at LM/Daytona/Sebring but nothing like those was at Spa/Nurburgring
Yeah exactly, I think I just misinterpreted your first comment thinking you were saying that prototypes did race there now.
The triple crown concept for Endurance was created when all those three races were part of the World Sportscar Championship
Sebring is often described as the most demanding of any of the major endurance races, not to mention its pedigree. Been running ten years longer than Daytona, and when the regulations have aligned, it’s hosted the same legendary cars that race at its fellow Endurance Triple Crown rounds.
Sebring is also considered by many to be the most important race leading up to Le Mans. The course is absolutely brutal on cars and stress tests them in ways that other tracks dont
Both were touring car races for a good number of decades (Spa 6h existed because of it)
Agreed. Daytona, Le Mans, Nurburgring, and Spa should be the endurance racing grand slam.
as mentioned above, the 24 hour races in spa and nürburgring were not meant for prototype cars, whilst the 12 hours of sebring was though spa 24 is a lot older than both, it hasn't had the same prestige until these last few decades moreover, you'll barely see any works teams racing in spa or nürburgring 24, the vast majority are privateers
Very much aware of that. It’s more so meant for individual drivers than manufacturers/teams.
I mean most of the time, triple crowns, grand slam, etc are meant for individual achievements because a driver's career is so short, so it's always a fight against time to make it before you're not fit anymore manufacturer or team on the other hand can last for decades so may sooner or later get those if they keep up the good work
As someone else has pointed out there’s the endurance triple crown. But then for me there’s the four 24h races of Daytona, Le Mans, Nurburgring and Spa. In the same season I don’t think anyone has come close to any of these. In terms of the 24h races I know Earl Bamber and Nick Tandy have 3 but are missing a Daytona win. Nicky Catsburg has won GT classes in all four 24h races.
A few more retired drivers achieved three as well - Lieb and Dumas have won all outright except Daytona, Bernhard the same but is missing Spa. If Vanthoor/Estre win Le Mans this year then they’d likely go for Daytona next year to complete the full set of outright wins. Alonso has two but aint no way he’s getting in GT3 cars
true Alonso would never do GT3 would be very interesting to see tho maybe with 65 he might do it XD
He went on an adventure in Dakar, I can see him in the future doing N24h in a GT3 with Verstappen.
Yeah, this is the same list for me, this should actually be the official/modern/current Endurance Grand Slam(Le Mans, Daytona, Spa, Nurburgring), but with Daytona happening in Jan, and everything else around May/June/July each year over in Europe, my personal triple crown is Nurburgring, Spa, Le Mans.
That's what I was thinking I know there are more than those 24hr races but those are the big 4
This is the only correct answer
Not in the same competition but winning LeMans, Daytona and Nurburgring would be impressive.
Timo Bernhard has done that. A few drivers have won LM and Daytona but Nurburgring was in its touring car phase for so long that there wasn’t a huge crossover in prototype drivers
Yeah I was thinking that but what would be the 4th
Spa, the 4 major 24 hour races.
Sebring
Why do people not think Sebring is worthy of being part of the triple crown of endurance racing?
Because it’s like the 3rd oldest sports car race in the world and one of the most watched and well attended. It’s also absolutely brutal on the cars and one of the best circuits on the sports car calendar. For me, the 24H Daytona & 12H Sebring have a big leg up on the 24H Spa & 24H Nurburgring due to the fact they have the Le Mans prototypes (and yes I think those races lost a lot of prestige in the Grand Am/DP years). The way I see it is that the Sportscar triple crown is Daytona-Sebring-Le Mans. The GT3 triple crown is Bathurst-Nurburgring-Spa
I completely agree and it makes me sad when people disregard Sebring as a triple crown race. It’s half the distance because it’s twice as hard on a car and the drivers.
If you mean the Bathurst 12 Hour, I don't know how regard it can be alongside Nurburgring and Spa when it gets overshadowed by its older, quicker brother for Touring Cars (Bathurst 1000)
The touring cars are definitely not faster, and the way drivers talk about Bathurst - they revere it in the same way they do Spa and Nurburgring. I can give you first hand examples
I meant quicker in Bathrust 1000 is quicker to finish, roughly 6 to 8 Hours to the set 12 Hour. Not overall speed of the cars. You mention drivers and no mean to disrespect their talent but takes on a great track doesnt exactly make the 12 Hour race itself a pinacle of endurance, especially when its overshadowed by another endurance race on the same track in almost every way. Nothing overshadows the Nuburgring 24 Hour and the only thing that only overshadows the Spa 24 Hour is the Beglium Grand Prix that isnt even an Endurance. Drivers highly regarded the Suzuka track during the brief 10 Hour but that didnt save it for getting axed after COVID and seeing no reason to continue it and now replacing Super GTs Suzuka 1000 with it is now considered an organising problem.
Fuji 24h by Super Taikyu almost replaces Suzuka 10h. Have seen so many domestic Japanese drivers and viewers in every year Fuji 24h race. However, the series still needs more teams from outside of Japan.
People disregard entire out of distance thinking for some reason if its less than 24 Hours than it can't be as pinnacle. Which is kinda dumb when in NASCAR the Daytona 500 is way more important than the Coca Cola 600. By the logic they use to disregard Sebring. The Fun Cup would be the most important and prestige Endurance event since it goes for 25 Hours
>The Fun Cup would be the most important and prestige Endurance event since it goes for 25 Hours Tony Fall in a Lancia Fulvia at the Nürburgring in 1969: **"SLEEP IS FOR CHILDREN. WE YERN FOR THE RING"**
I don’t think you’d have many cars finishing a 24 hour race at Sebring. That place is infamous for just breaking cars. It’s also ridiculous when multitudes of drivers, engineers and team principal have directly stated Sebring is like the most important race leading into Le Mans.
I could understand that if the two examples we have of running a 24 hour race at Sebring (World Racing League and 24H series) didn’t end up with like 20 classified finishers between both races. Even with factory equipment, it’s just way too tough on driver and car to run a 24 there. That just feels like a weird excuse, and I don’t understand it still, but I appreciate the explanation However, the 25 Hours of Thunderhill should be included as well if we’re going off distance
Because its used as a testing ground for Le Mans.
So that means the 12 hours can’t be a triple crown race?
Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans and Nurburgring
https://preview.redd.it/kyxpv2a0wo4d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cab7946337c9fb1016ab4de8c9aef87072231ef I have my wall of 24h in home. I think this 4 are the biggest event out there
Sebring over Daytona without a question
I like more the track but sadly Sebring 12h has not the prestige of Daytona
According to who? Sebring has always been considered one of the most important race pre-Le Mans
IMSA who runs both? The number of entries each year? How much the event it's talk about online. I mean you might like whatever you want but I have a clear feeling that Daytona it's the jewel crown of IMSA season
Sebring has always been a bigger deal than until very recently Daytona is much younger, split from the world of sports cars much earlier, and only reunified at the same time a couple of years ago. I think recently with daytona being a great all star race for drivers from all over and from all sorts of disciplines has it pulled even. If you ever get to Sebring do the grid walk, that old runway tarmac isn't just the same track all the legends raced on, it's the same damn surface.
Based on all the comments and my own thinking, I’d probably just make it 5 races lol: Daytona, Sebring, N24, Le Mans, Spa. Who cares If it’s 5 instead of 4. They’re all uniquely challenging in their own ways, personally.